Julian Assange: Why the world needs WikiLeaks

翻译人员: Vivian Lee 校对人员: xiang fei

Chris Anderson: Julian, welcome.

Chris Anderson：Julian，欢迎你

It's been reported that WikiLeaks, your baby,

有报道说“维基揭密”——你的心血结晶

has, in the last few years

在过去的几年

has released more classified documents

所公布的机密文件数目

than the rest of the world's media combined.

超过了世界所有媒体公布数的总和

Can that possibly be true?

这有可能吗？

Julian Assange: Yeah, can it possibly be true?

Julian Assange：是的，这有可能吗？

It's a worry -- isn't it? -- that the rest of the world's media

这是个问题，不是吗？世界上的其他媒体

is doing such a bad job

得有多糟糕啊

that a little group of activists

以至于一群社会活动家

is able to release more

就能公开

of that type of information

比世界上所有媒体

than the rest of the world press combined.

加起来还要多的机密文件

CA: How does it work?

CA：这是如何运作的？

How do people release the documents?

你们是怎样公开这些文件的？

And how do you secure their privacy?

你们如何确保他们的隐私？

JA: So these are -- as far as we can tell --

JA：最多能告诉你们

classical whistleblowers,

他们是传统的告密者

and we have a number of ways for them

我们提供一些方式

to get information to us.

让他们把信息告诉我们

So we use this state-of-the-art encryption

我们运用最先进的加密方式

to bounce stuff around the Internet, to hide trails,

来在网上传播信息，隐藏痕迹

pass it through legal jurisdictions

在司法管辖区内传递

like Sweden and Belgium

比如瑞典和比利时

to enact those legal protections.

以求获得法律保护

We get information in the mail,

我们通过信件获得信息

the regular postal mail,

最普通的邮递信件

encrypted or not,

不论是否加密

vet it like a regular news organization, format it --

我们和任何新闻机构一样对信息进行审查，排版

which is sometimes something that's quite hard to do,

尽管有时这显得相当困难

when you're talking about

考虑到所涉及的

giant databases of information --

透露给公众的

release it to the public

巨大的信息量

and then defend ourselves

然后保护我们不受

against the inevitable legal and political attacks.

不可避免的法律和政治攻击的影响

CA: So you make an effort to ensure

CA：所以说你们尽量保证

the documents are legitimate,

这些文件是正确的

but you actually

但实际上

almost never know who the identity of the source is?

你们几乎不了解消息来源的身份？

JA: That's right, yeah. Very rarely do we ever know,

JA：没错，我们很少知道

and if we find out at some stage

如果在某阶段我们的确发现了其身份

then we destroy that information as soon as possible.

我们也会尽快销毁这一信息

(Phone ring) God damn it.

(电话铃声)该死！

(Laughter)

(笑声)

CA: I think that's the CIA asking what the code is

CA：我想那是中情局在询问

for a TED membership.

TED成员的代码是什么

(Laughter)

(笑声)

So let's take [an] example, actually.

现在我们来看个实际例子

This is something

这是几年前

you leaked a few years ago.

泄露的消息

If we can have this document up ...

现在我们可以公布这个文件

So this was a story in Kenya a few years ago.

这是几年前发生在肯尼亚的故事

Can you tell us what you leaked and what happened?

你能告诉我们你们泄露了什么以及后来发生了些什么吗？

JA: So this is the Kroll Report.

JA：这是所谓的克勒尔报告

This was a secret intelligence report

这是一份秘密情报

commissioned by the Kenyan government

由肯尼亚政府

after its election in 2004.

在2004年大选之后授权制作的

Prior to 2004, Kenya was ruled

2004年之前，肯尼亚在

by Daniel arap Moi

Daniel arap Moi的统治下

for about 18 years.

长达18年

He was a soft dictator of Kenya.

他是肯尼亚的软独裁者

And when Kibaki got into power --

后来当Kibaki试图掌权时——

through a coalition of forces that were trying

他利用了试图肃清肯尼亚腐败现象的

to clean up corruption in Kenya --

一些联合力量——

they commissioned this report,

他们便授权搜集了这样一份报告

spent about two million pounds

一共花费了两百万英镑

on this and an associated report.

在这份及另一份相关报告上

And then the government sat on it

然后Kibaki政府以此为据

and used it for political leverage on Moi,

推翻了Moi——

who was the richest man --

这个自始至终的肯尼亚首富——

still is the richest man -- in Kenya.

在肯尼亚的统治

It's the Holy Grail of Kenyan journalism.

这是肯尼亚新闻界的圣杯

So I went there in 2007,

我2007年到了那里

and we managed to get hold of this

我们设法在大选之前

just prior to the election --

得到了这份报告——

the national election, December 28.

全国大选定于12月28日

When we released that report,

当我们公布这份报告时

we did so three days after the new president, Kibaki,

正是新任总统，Kibaki

had decided to pal up with

决定同那位他企图打击的人

the man that he was going to clean out,

进行合作的三日之后

Daniel arap Moi,

那人即Daniel arap Moi

so this report then

所以这份报告在当时

became a dead albatross

成为了一个致命的负担

around President Kibaki's neck.

压在了Kibaki总统的身上

CA: And -- I mean, to cut a long story short --

CA：接下来——长话短说

word of the report leaked into Kenya,

关于此份报告的消息在肯尼亚走漏

not from the official media, but indirectly,

不是通过正规媒体，而是间接地

and in your opinion, it actually shifted the election.

而以你的观点，它实际上改变了选举的进程

JA: Yeah. So this became front page of the Guardian

JA：是的，这件事上了卫报的头版

and was then printed in all the surrounding countries of Kenya,

然后被肯尼亚所有周边国家转载

in Tanzanian and South African press.

如坦桑尼亚和南非的媒体

And so it came in from the outside.

接着从外部流入肯尼亚国内

And that, after a couple of days,

几天之后

made the Kenyan press feel safe to talk about it.

肯尼亚的媒体认为是时候谈论此事了

And it ran for 20 nights straight on Kenyan TV,

他们通过电视对此事进行了连续二十晚的报道

shifted the vote by 10 percent,

影响了百分之十的选票

according to a Kenyan intelligence report,

根据肯尼亚的情报报告

which changed the result of the election.

由此改变了大选的结果

CA: Wow, so your leak

CA：哇，所以你泄露的消息

really substantially changed the world?

确实从实质上改变了世界？

JA: Yep.

JA：没错

(Applause)

(掌声)

CA: Here's -- We're going to just show

CA：在这里，我们将播放

a short clip from this

一小段视频

Baghdad airstrike video.

出自这份巴格达空袭录像

The video itself is longer,

这段视频本身要长一些

but here's a short clip.

这里我们只截取了一小段

This is -- this is intense material, I should warn you.

这是段很激烈的视频，我先提醒大家

Radio: ... just fuckin', once you get on 'em just open 'em up.

无线电：...去你的，对准就崩了他们

I see your element, uh, got about four Humvees, uh, out along ...

我看到你的人了，呃，大概有4辆悍马，呃，一起的

You're clear. All right. Firing.

你安全了。很好。开火

Let me know when you've got them. Let's shoot.

瞄准给我信号。开枪！

Light 'em all up.

把他们都干掉

C'mon, fire!

来吧，开火！

(Machine gun fire)

(机关枪射击)

Keep shoot 'n. Keep shoot 'n.

继续射击。继续射击。

(Machine gun fire)

(机关枪射击)

Keep shoot 'n.

继续射击。

Hotel ... Bushmaster Two-Six, Bushmaster Two-Six,

HB26，HB26

we need to move, time now!

转移，现在！

All right, we just engaged all eight individuals.

很好，我们刚解决了8个人

Yeah, we see two birds [helicopters], and we're still firing.

我看到两个逃跑的，别熄火

Roger. I got 'em.

Roger,我搞的定

Two-Six, this is Two-Six, we're mobile.

26，这是26，我们移动中

Oops, I'm sorry. What was going on?

糟糕，抱歉，刚才是怎么回事？

God damn it, Kyle. All right, hahaha. I hit 'em.

该死的，凯尔。算了，哈哈哈，我打到他们了。

CA: So, what was the impact of that?

CA：所以，刚才那段视频有什么影响？

JA: The impact on the people who worked on it

JA：对视频中的人物

was severe.

其后果很严重

We ended up sending two people to Baghdad

我们派了2个人去巴格达

to further research that story.

来跟踪调查这个故事

So this is just the first of three attacks

这只是在视频中出现的

that occurred in that scene.

三次袭击中的第一次

CA: So, I mean, 11 people died in that attack, right,

CA：我知道，11个人在这此空袭中丧生

including two Reuters employees?

包括两名路透社职员，是吧

JA: Yeah. Two Reuters employees,

JA：是的，包括两名路透社职员

two young children were wounded.

还有两名儿童受伤

There were between 18 and 26 people killed all together.

总共有18到26个人丧生

CA: And releasing this caused

CA：这段视频的公布

widespread outrage.

引起了广泛的愤慨

What was the key element of this

你认为引起这些愤怒情绪的

that actually caused the outrage, do you think?

关键因素是什么？

JA: I don't know. I guess people can see

我不知道。我猜人们能看出

the gross disparity in force.

军队中的明显差异

You have guys walking in a relaxed way down the street,

有些人很放松地在街上巡视

and then an Apache helicopter sitting up at one kilometer

有些人坐在角落的阿帕奇直升机里

firing 30-millimeter cannon shells

发射30毫米的子弹

on everyone --

扫射所有人

looking for any excuse to do so --

然后为自己的做法找借口

and killing people rescuing the wounded.

杀掉那些拯救伤员的人

And there was two journalists involved that clearly weren't insurgents

两个牵涉其中的记者明显不是叛乱者

because that's their full-time job.

因为记者才是他们的工作

CA: I mean, there's been this U.S. intelligence analyst,

CA：接着有位美国的情报分析人员

Bradley Manning, arrested,

叫Bradley Manning，被捕

and it's alleged that he confessed in a chat room

据称他在审讯室里承认

to have leaked this video to you,

曾向你泄露了这段视频

along with 280,000

以及28万份

classified U.S. embassy cables.

美国大使馆机密电报

I mean, did he?

是吗？

JA: We have denied receiving those cables.

JA：恩，我们曾否认收到了这些电报

He has been charged,

他已经被起诉

about five days ago,

就在5天前

with obtaining 150,000 cables

被控取得15万电报

and releasing 50.

并且公布了50条

Now, we had released,

目前，我们公布了

early in the year,

今年年初的一条

a cable from the Reykjavik U.S. embassy,

来自雷克雅未克（冰岛首都）美国大使馆的电报

but this is not necessarily connected.

但这条并不相关

I mean, I was a known visitor of that embassy.

我是说，我是这个大使馆的熟客

CA: I mean, if you did receive thousands

CA：我是说，如果你们确实收到了成千上万

of U.S. embassy diplomatic cables ...

美国大使馆的外交电报……

JA: We would have released them. (CA: You would?)

JA：那我们应该已经公布出去了(CA：你真的会这样做？)

JA: Yeah. (CA: Because?)

JA：是的(CA：原因是?)

JA: Well, because these sort of things

JA：因为这些东西

reveal what the true state

揭露了什么是真实的

of, say,

恩，例如

Arab governments are like,

阿拉伯政府的样子

the true human-rights abuses in those governments.

在这些政府中漠视人权的真相

If you look at declassified cables,

所以应该这样看待这些机密电报

that's the sort of material that's there.

以及存在的相关资料

CA: So let's talk a little more broadly about this.

CA：让我们谈得概括一些

I mean, in general, what's your philosophy?

概括来讲，你的人生哲学是什么？

Why is it right

为什么鼓励泄露机密信息

to encourage leaking of secret information?

对你来说是正确的事？

JA: Well, there's a question as to what sort of information is important in the world,

JA：这个问题涉及到什么样的信息对于这个世界是重要的

what sort of information

什么样的信息

can achieve reform.

能够推动改革

And there's a lot of information.

世界上有各种信息

So information that organizations

所以那些组织机构

are spending economic effort into concealing,

花钱想要隐瞒的信息

that's a really good signal

这是个好的征兆

that when the information gets out,

即当这些信息泄露出去后

there's a hope of it doing some good --

会产生有益的后果

because the organizations that know it best,

因为这些机构知道得太多

that know it from the inside out,

彻头彻尾

are spending work to conceal it.

而他们在试图隐藏消息

And that's what we've found in practice,

这是我们的经验之谈

and that's what the history of journalism is.

而这也是新闻的历史之鉴

CA: But are there risks with that,

CA：但其中会不会有风险

either to the individuals concerned

无论对相关个人

or indeed to society at large,

还是对整个社会来讲

where leaking can actually have

这样的泄密会不会导致

an unintended consequence?

预料之外的后果？

JA: Not that we have seen with anything we have released.

就目前我们所公布的材料而已还没有遇到过

I mean, we have a harm immunization policy.

我的意思是，我们有一套危害预防政策

We have a way of dealing with information

我们有一整套处理

that has sort of personal --

涉及个人——

personally identifying information in it.

个人身份相关信息的方法

But there are legitimate secrets --

但确实存在一些合法的机密

you know, your records with your doctor;

比如，你的医疗记录

that's a legitimate secret --

这就是一个合法的机密

but we deal with whistleblowers that are coming forward

但是与我们交流的告密者

that are really sort of well-motivated.

他们确实有着好的动机

CA: So they are well-motivated.

CA：所以你说他们的动机是善意的

And what would you say to, for example,

那你又怎么向其他人解释，比如说

the, you know, the parent of someone

你知道的，某些父母

whose son is out serving the U.S. military,

他们的儿子在美国军队服役

and he says, "You know what,

他们会说，你知道吗，

you've put up something that someone had an incentive to put out.

你揭露的东西表明你动机不纯

It shows a U.S. soldier laughing

因为它展示了美国大兵嘲笑

at people dying.

那些濒死的人

That gives the impression, has given the impression,

这向全世界成千上万的人

to millions of people around the world

留下了一个不好的印象

that U.S. soldiers are inhuman people.

那就是美国大兵是没有人性的一群人

Actually, they're not. My son isn't. How dare you?"

而实际上他们并不是，至少我儿子不是，所以你怎么敢这么做？

What would you say to that?

你对这样的父母怎么解释？

JA: Yeah, we do get a lot of that.

JA：没错，我们确实得到了这样的反馈

But remember, the people in Baghdad,

但请记住，在巴格达的人们

the people in Iraq, the people in Afghanistan --

在伊拉克和阿富汗的人们

they don't need to see the video;

他们并不需要看到这段视频

they see it every day.

这样的事每天都在现实生活中上演

So it's not going to change their opinion. It's not going to change their perception.

所以这并不能改变他们的意见和想法

That's what they see every day.

这就是他们每天所看到的

It will change the perception and opinion

它将会改变那些为这场战争买单的

of the people who are paying for it all,

人们的观念和想法

and that's our hope.

而这正是我们的希望

CA: So you found a way to shine light

CA：所以你是在试图揭露

into what you see

你所认为的

as these sort of dark secrets in companies and in government.

那些公司和政府所隐藏的事实真相

Light is good.

真相是好的

But do you see any irony in the fact that,

但你是否发现了其中矛盾的地方，实际上

in order for you to shine that light,

为了揭露真相

you have to, yourself,

你自己却不得不

create secrecy around your sources?

将你的消息来源隐藏起来？

JA: Not really. I mean, we don't have

JA：并不尽然。我是说，就目前而言

any WikiLeaks dissidents yet.

我们并没有任何“维基揭密”的反对者

We don't have sources who are dissidents on other sources.

并没有一个消息来源是另一个消息来源的反对者

Should they come forward, that would be a tricky situation for us,

如果他们真的出现，对我们来说才是棘手的情况

but we're presumably acting in such a way

可能我们的角色

that people feel

让人们感觉

morally compelled

道义上的责任

to continue our mission, not to screw it up.

来继续我们的行为，而不是搞砸它

CA: I'd actually be interested, just based on what we've heard so far --

CA：我确实非常感兴趣，就目前我们听到的而言

I'm curious as to the opinion in the TED audience.

我对TED观众的意见很感兴趣

You know, there might be a couple of views

对于“维基揭密”以及Julian本人

of WikiLeaks and of Julian.

可能会有很多不同意见

You know, hero -- people's hero --

比如，英雄—人民的英雄—

bringing this important light.

揭露关键真相

Dangerous troublemaker.

危险的麻烦制造者

Who's got the hero view?

谁认为他是英雄？

Who's got the dangerous troublemaker view?

谁认为他是个大麻烦？

JA: Oh, come on. There must be some.

JA：噢拜托，肯定有人这么想

CA: It's a soft crowd, Julian, a soft crowd.

CA：他们心肠软，Julian

We have to try better. Let's show them another example.

我们再来试一试。再给大家一个例子

Now here's something that you haven't yet leaked,

这份资料你还没有泄露过

but I think for TED you are.

将在TED上首次披露

I mean it's an intriguing story that's just happened, right?

这是个相当引人入胜的故事，刚发生，对吧？

What is this?

这是什么故事？

JA: So this is a sample of what we do

JA：这只是我们每天所做事情的

sort of every day.

其中一个例子

So late last year -- in November last year --

去年年末—去年11月—

there was a series of well blowouts

发生了一系列的油井泄露事件

in Albania,

在阿尔巴尼亚

like the well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico,

类似墨西哥湾的油井泄露

but not quite as big.

只是没有那么大规模

And we got a report --

我们得到了一份报告

a sort of engineering analysis into what happened --

一份所谓对泄露的机械分析

saying that, in fact, security guards

阐明，其实

from some rival, various competing oil firms

一些来自竞争对手石油公司的保全人员

had, in fact, parked trucks there and blown them up.

蓄意引起爆炸

And part of the Albanian government was in this, etc., etc.

阿尔巴尼亚政府也有份参与，等等

And the engineering report

这份机械报告

had nothing on the top of it,

并没具体说明细节

so it was an extremely difficult document for us.

对我们来说这份文件很有难度

We couldn't verify it because we didn't know

我们不能证实这个消息

who wrote it and knew what it was about.

因为我们不知道谁写的，涉及些什么

So we were kind of skeptical that maybe it was

所以我们怀疑，也许

a competing oil firm just sort of playing the issue up.

这是竞争对手的石油公司从中作梗

So under that basis, we put it out and said,

在这样的条件下，我们发布了这份文件并声明

"Look, we're skeptical about this thing.

“我们对此事表示怀疑，

We don't know, but what can we do?

我们并不知道真相，也无计可施

The material looks good, it feels right,

这份材料看起来揭露了些真相

but we just can't verify it."

但是我们没法证实。”

And we then got a letter

然后我们收到了一封信

just this week

就在这周

from the company who wrote it,

信来自写这份报告的公司

wanting to track down the source --

他们想追踪消息来源

(Laughter)

(笑声)

saying, "Hey, we want to track down the source."

他们说“嘿，我们想找到消息来源”

And we were like, "Oh, tell us more.

而我们的反应是，“再跟我们说一点

What document is it, precisely, you're talking about?

你说的究竟是哪个文件？

Can you show that you had legal authority over that document?

你能证明你们对这份文件有法律权限吗？

Is it really yours?"

这真的与你们有关吗？”

So they sent us this screen shot

所以他们给我们发来了这个截屏

with the author

包含作者

in the Microsoft Word ID.

和微软文字处理软件的标题

Yeah.

没错

(Applause)

(鼓掌)

That's happened quite a lot though.

这样的情况经常发生

This is like one of our methods

这是我们的方法之一

of identifying, of verifying, what a material is,

来识别，证实这是怎样的材料

is to try and get these guys to write letters.

来试着让更多的人给我们写信

CA: Yeah. Have you had information

CA：是吗。那你们有没有收到

from inside BP?

来自英国石油公司内部的消息？

JA: Yeah, we have a lot, but I mean, at the moment,

JA：确实有，而且不少。但目前

we are undergoing a sort of serious fundraising and engineering effort.

我们正在进行一系列的资金筹集和技术改良工作

So our publication rate

所以我们发布的信息量

over the past few months

在过去的几个月里

has been sort of minimized

大大减少了

while we're re-engineering our back systems

我们利用这段时间更新系统

for the phenomenal public interest that we have.

以适应我们所受到的巨大的公众关注度

That's a problem.

这是个问题

I mean, like any sort of growing startup organization,

我是说，正如任何处于起步阶段的机构一样

we are sort of overwhelmed

我们的发展

by our growth,

跟不上我们扩张的速度

and that means we're getting enormous quantity

这意味着我们得到了越来越多的

of whistleblower disclosures

告密者所揭露的

of a very high caliber

非常高端的真相

but don't have enough people to actually

但是我们没有足够的人手

process and vet this information.

来处理和审查这些信息

CA: So that's the key bottleneck,

CA：这就是瓶颈所在

basically journalistic volunteers

主要在于处理信息的人手

and/or the funding of journalistic salaries?

和/或这些人手的工资？

JA: Yep. Yeah, and trusted people.

JA：是的，还有可靠的人手

I mean, we're an organization

我的意思是，我们是一个组织

that is hard to grow very quickly

但要迅速扩张是很困难的

because of the sort of material we deal with,

这是由我们所处理的材料决定的

so we have to restructure

所以我们必须重组

in order to have people

以求获得更多线人

who will deal with the highest national security stuff,

尤其是涉及高级国家机密的人员

and then lower security cases.

以降低安全级别

CA: So help us understand a bit about you personally

CA：让我们来更多的了解下你个人

and how you came to do this.

以及你为什么开始做这件事

And I think I read that as a kid

我记得我看到过，你小的时候

you went to 37 different schools.

一共去过37个学校上学

Can that be right?

这是真的吗？

JA: Well, my parents were in the movie business

JA: 这个，我父母从事电影业

and then on the run from a cult,

然后叛离异教

so the combination between the two ...

所以二者结合...

(Laughter)

(笑声)

CA: I mean, a psychologist might say

CA：我想，心理学家可能会说

that's a recipe for breeding paranoia.

这真是产生偏执狂的绝佳条件啊

JA: What, the movie business?

JA: 什么？电影业吗？

(Laughter)

(笑声)

(Applause)

(掌声)

CA: And you were also -- I mean,

CA：你也是——

you were also a hacker at an early age

你年轻的时候也是个黑客

and ran into the authorities early on.

开始的时候侵入权威网站

JA: Well, I was a journalist.

JA：我那时是个记者

You know, I was a very young journalist activist at an early age.

我是个非常年轻的记者和激进分子

I wrote a magazine,

我为杂志写专栏

was prosecuted for it when I was a teenager.

而由此在青少年时代就遭到起诉

So you have to be careful with hacker.

所以对黑客这个行为要非常谨慎

I mean there's like -- there's a method

我是说这是种非常手段

that can be deployed for various things.

有不同的目的加以利用

Unfortunately, at the moment,

不幸的是，现阶段

it's mostly deployed by the Russian mafia

它主要被俄罗斯黑手党用来

in order to steal your grandmother's bank accounts.

窃取个人银行账户

So this phrase is not,

所以现阶段

not as nice as it used to be.

情况并不如以前的好

CA: Yeah, well, I certainly don't think

CA：是的，但我当然不认为

you're stealing anyone's grandmother's bank account,

你会偷任何人的账号

but what about

但是什么是

your core values?

你的核心价值观呢？

Can you give us a sense of what they are

你能向我们描述一下

and maybe some incident in your life

或者说明你人生中的何种变故

that helped determine them?

使你产生了这样的价值观呢？

JA: I'm not sure about the incident.

JA：我并不确定所谓的人生变故

But the core values:

但关于我的核心价值观

well, capable, generous men

我认为，宅心仁厚的人们

do not create victims;

不会直接制造受害者

they nurture victims.

他们却能影响受害者

And that's something from my father

这个事实是我的父亲

and something from other capable, generous men

以及其他一些我生命中出现的宅心仁厚的人

that have been in my life.

让我感受到的

CA: Capable, generous men do not create victims;

CA：宅心仁厚的人们并不直接制造受害者

they nurture victims?

却能影响受害者？

JA: Yeah. And you know,

JA：是的，你知道

I'm a combative person,

我是个好斗的人

so I'm not actually so big on the nurture,

我并不是个成长中的大人物

but some way --

但某种程度上讲——

there is another way of nurturing victims,

有另一种方式能影响受害者

which is to police perpetrators

那就是监督罪犯的

of crime.

犯罪行为

And so that is something

而这个认识

that has been in my character

已经成为我性格的一部分

for a long time.

持续很长时间

CA: So just tell us, very quickly in the last minute, the story:

CA：现在，趁着最后的时间，给我们讲下这个故事

what happened in Iceland?

在冰岛发生了什么事？

You basically published something there,

你在那里发布了些信息

ran into trouble with a bank,

在银行那儿遇到些麻烦

then the news service there

然后那里的新闻机构

was injuncted from running the story.

被禁止报道此事

Instead, they publicized your side.

而他们却引起了公众对你的注意

That made you very high-profile in Iceland. What happened next?

这使得你在冰岛非常高调。然后呢？

JA: Yeah, this is a great case, you know.

JA：是的，这是个很好的例子

Iceland went through this financial crisis.

冰岛度过了这次的金融危机

It was the hardest hit of any country in the world.

遭受到了比任何国家都更严重的打击

Its banking sector was 10 times the GDP

其银行业收入

of the rest of the economy.

是其他行业GDP收入的10倍

Anyway, so we release this report

长话短说，我们公布了这份报告

in July last year.

在去年的7月

And the national TV station was injuncted

在直播前的5分钟

five minutes before it went on air,

国家电视台禁止播放这条消息

like out of a movie: injunction landed on the news desk,

就像电影里的情节，禁令从天而降

and the news reader was like,

新闻播报员措手不及

"This has never happened before. What do we do?"

“这件事从未发生过，我们该怎么办”

Well, we just show the website instead,

于是，我们一直显示我们的网页

for all that time, as a filler,

填充这段新闻空白

and we became very famous in Iceland,

于是我们在冰岛变得非常有名

went to Iceland and spoke about this issue.

我去了冰岛说明这个事件

And there was a feeling in the community

在这个国家当时有种感觉

that that should never happen again,

这件事不应该再次发生

and as a result,

所以

working with Icelandic politicians

我们同冰岛的政治家

and some other international legal experts,

以及其他一些国际法律专家合作

we put together a new sort of

我们拟定了一份新的

package of legislation for Iceland

适合于冰岛的法律条文

to sort of become an offshore haven

这成为了冰岛新闻自由的

for the free press,

一个避风港

with the strongest journalistic protections in the world,

并带来了世界上最强硬的一次记者游行示威

with a new Nobel Prize

以及一个奖励自由言论的

for freedom of speech.

诺贝尔奖

Iceland's a Nordic country,

冰岛是一个日耳曼国家

so, like Norway, it's able to tap into the system.

所以，就像挪威一样，它能将这些融入国家系统

And just a month ago,

就在一个月前

this was passed by the Icelandic parliament unanimously.

这项法案在冰岛议会获得一致通过

CA: Wow.

CA：噢！

(Applause)

(鼓掌)

Last question, Julian.

最后一个问题，Julian

When you think of the future then,

当你展望未来

do you think it's more likely to be

你觉得未来更倾向于发生

Big Brother exerting more control,

老大哥(出自小说"1984"，指无处不在的监视者)施加更多的控制

more secrecy,

拥有更多秘密

or us watching

还是我们监视

Big Brother,

老大哥的行为

or it's just all to be played for either way?

或者为双方服务？

JA: I'm not sure which way it's going to go.

JA：我不清楚会按照何种方式

I mean, there's enormous pressures

我们面临很大压力

to harmonize freedom of speech legislation

要使言论自由的条例

and transparency legislation around the world --

和世界范围内的司法透明相协调

within the E.U.,

不仅在欧盟

between China and the United States.

也要在中国和美国

Which way is it going to go? It's hard to see.

到底会以何种方式进行？这很难说

That's why it's a very interesting time to be in --

所以这个时期才会让人非常有兴趣

because with just a little bit of effort,

因为只需要一点努力

we can shift it one way or the other.

我们就能决定其方向

CA: Well, it looks like I'm reflecting the audience's opinion

CA：好了，看起来我要来传达一下观众的意见

to say, Julian, be careful,

Julian，小心点

and all power to you.

希望你得偿所愿

JA: Thank you, Chris. (CA: Thank you.)

JA：谢谢你，Chris.(CA：谢谢)

(Applause)

(掌声)