Julian Assange: Why the world needs WikiLeaks

Prevoditelj: Antonija Burcul Recezent: Dunja Vucenovic

Chris Anderson: Julian, welcome.

Julian, dobrodošao.

It's been reported that WikiLeaks, your baby,

Govori se da je WikiLeaks, tvoje djelo,

has, in the last few years

u posljednjih nekoliko godina

has released more classified documents

objavilo više tajnih dokumenata

than the rest of the world's media combined.

nego ostatak svjetskih medija zajedno.

Can that possibly be true?

Zar je to zbilja moguće?

Julian Assange: Yeah, can it possibly be true?

Julian Assagne: Da, zar je to zbilja moguće?

It's a worry -- isn't it? -- that the rest of the world's media

Zabrinjavajuće, zar ne: da je ostatak svjetskih medija

is doing such a bad job

toliko loš u onome što radi

that a little group of activists

da je mala skupina aktivista

is able to release more

sposobna objaviti više

of that type of information

takve vrste informacija

than the rest of the world press combined.

nego ostatak svjetskih medija zajedno.

CA: How does it work?

CA: Kako to funkcionira?

How do people release the documents?

Kako ljudi objavljuju dokumente?

And how do you secure their privacy?

I kako osiguravate tajnost njihovog identiteta?

JA: So these are -- as far as we can tell --

JA: Postoje, koliko smo upoznati,

classical whistleblowers,

klasični zviždači.

and we have a number of ways for them

Posjedujemo određen broj načina na koji

to get information to us.

nam proslijeđuju informacije.

So we use this state-of-the-art encryption

Koristimo vrhunsko šifriranje

to bounce stuff around the Internet, to hide trails,

za prebacivanje informacija na internetu, brisanje tragova,

pass it through legal jurisdictions

prolazak kroz pravne nadležnosti,

like Sweden and Belgium

poput onih Švedske i Belgije,

to enact those legal protections.

koje propisuju određene pravne zaštite.

We get information in the mail,

Dobivamo informacije kroz poštu,

the regular postal mail,

običnu poštu,

encrypted or not,

šifrirane i nešifrirane,

vet it like a regular news organization, format it --

istražujemo ih poput svake obične medijske organizacije, oblikujemo ih...

which is sometimes something that's quite hard to do,

što je ponekad veoma težak posao,

when you're talking about

jer govorimo o

giant databases of information --

veoma velikim bazama podataka,

release it to the public

objavljujemo ih u javnosti,

and then defend ourselves

i onda se branimo

against the inevitable legal and political attacks.

od neizbježnih pravnih i političkih napada.

CA: So you make an effort to ensure

CA: Dakle, ulažete napor da potvrdite da

the documents are legitimate,

su dokumenti legitimni,

but you actually

ali zapravo

almost never know who the identity of the source is?

gotovo nikad ne znate identitet izvora.

JA: That's right, yeah. Very rarely do we ever know,

JA: U pravu ste, da. Veoma rijetko znamo.

and if we find out at some stage

Ako ikad i saznamo u određenom trenutku

then we destroy that information as soon as possible.

takvu vrstu informacija uništavamo što prije.

(Phone ring) God damn it.

(Zvonjava telefona) K vragu.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

CA: I think that's the CIA asking what the code is

CA: Mislim da to CIA-u zanima koji je kod

for a TED membership.

za članstvo u TED-u.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So let's take [an] example, actually.

Uzmimo primjer.

This is something

Ovo je nešto

you leaked a few years ago.

što je procurilo prije par godina.

If we can have this document up ...

Ako možete pokazati dokument...

So this was a story in Kenya a few years ago.

Ovo je priča iz Kenije prije par godina.

Can you tell us what you leaked and what happened?

Možete li nam reći što ste objavili i što se dogodilo?

JA: So this is the Kroll Report.

JA: Ovo je izvještaj "Kroll".

This was a secret intelligence report

Ovo je bio izvještaj tajne obavještajne službe

commissioned by the Kenyan government

pod nadzorom kenijske vlade

after its election in 2004.

nakon njihovog izbora 2004. godine.

Prior to 2004, Kenya was ruled

Do 2004. godine, Kenya je bila

by Daniel arap Moi

pod vlašću Daniel arap Moia.

for about 18 years.

18 godina.

He was a soft dictator of Kenya.

On je bio blagi kenijski diktator.

And when Kibaki got into power --

Kad je Kibaki došao na vlast,

through a coalition of forces that were trying

kroz koaliciju snaga koje su pokušavale

to clean up corruption in Kenya --

očistiti Keniju od korupcije...

they commissioned this report,

naručili su ovaj izvještaj,

spent about two million pounds

potrošili oko 2 milijuna funti

on this and an associated report.

na njega i s njim povezani izvještaj.

And then the government sat on it

I tad ga je vlada zataškala

and used it for political leverage on Moi,

i iskoristila ga kao političko oružje protiv Moia,

who was the richest man --

koji je bilo najbogatiji čovjek,

still is the richest man -- in Kenya.

još uvijek jest najbogatiji čovjek u Keniji.

It's the Holy Grail of Kenyan journalism.

Ovo je Sveti Gral kenijskog novinarstva.

So I went there in 2007,

Otišao sam tamo 2007.,

and we managed to get hold of this

i uspjeli smo se dočepati dokumenta

just prior to the election --

netom prije općih izbora, 28. prosinca.

the national election, December 28.

netom prije općih izbora, 28. prosinca.

When we released that report,

Kad smo objavili izvješće,

we did so three days after the new president, Kibaki,

učinili smo to 3 dana nakon nakon što se novoizabrani predsjednik, Kibaki,

had decided to pal up with

odlučio udružiti sa čovjekom kojeg je planirao maknuti,

the man that he was going to clean out,

odlučio udružiti sa čovjekom kojeg je planirao maknuti,

Daniel arap Moi,

Danielom arap Moiem.

so this report then

Ovaj izvještaj postao je

became a dead albatross

smrtni uteg oko vrata

around President Kibaki's neck.

predsjednika Kibakija.

CA: And -- I mean, to cut a long story short --

CA: I, da skratimo priču,

word of the report leaked into Kenya,

priča o izvještaju procurila je u Keniji,

not from the official media, but indirectly,

ne od strane službenih medija, već neizravno.

and in your opinion, it actually shifted the election.

I po vašem mišljenju, promijenila je tijek izbora.

JA: Yeah. So this became front page of the Guardian

JA. Da. Priča je došla na naslovnicu Guardiana

and was then printed in all the surrounding countries of Kenya,

i nakon toga objavljena je u susjednim zemljama Kenije,

in Tanzanian and South African press.

tanzanijskom i južnoafričkom tisku.

And so it came in from the outside.

Tako je došla izvana.

And that, after a couple of days,

To je, nakon nekoliko dana,

made the Kenyan press feel safe to talk about it.

učinilo kenijski tisak dovoljno sigurnim da raspravlja o tome.

And it ran for 20 nights straight on Kenyan TV,

20 dana zaredom priča se vrtila na kenijskoj televiziji,

shifted the vote by 10 percent,

promjenivši glasove za 10%,

according to a Kenyan intelligence report,

kako navodi kenijski obavještajni izvještaj,

which changed the result of the election.

što je promjenilo krajnji rezultat izbora.

CA: Wow, so your leak

CA: Wow, dakle vaše objavljivanje,

really substantially changed the world?

je zaista značajno promjenilo svijet?

JA: Yep.

JA: Da.

(Applause)

(pljesak)

CA: Here's -- We're going to just show

CA: Pokazat ćemo vam

a short clip from this

kratak isječak iz videozapisa

Baghdad airstrike video.

zračnog napada na Bagdad.

The video itself is longer,

Sam videozapis je duži.

but here's a short clip.

Ali ovo je kratak isječak.

This is -- this is intense material, I should warn you.

Upozoravam vas, ovo je uznemirujući materijal.

Radio: ... just fuckin', once you get on 'em just open 'em up.

Radio: ... samo j**' te, jednom kad ih naciljaš, pali.

I see your element, uh, got about four Humvees, uh, out along ...

Vidim to, uh, imam oko 4 Humveesa, uh, tamo pored...

You're clear. All right. Firing.

Čist si. U redu. Pucam.

Let me know when you've got them. Let's shoot.

Javi mi kad ih pogodite. Pucajmo.

Light 'em all up.

Raznesi ih sve.

C'mon, fire!

'Ajde, pucajte!

(Machine gun fire)

(pucnjava)

Keep shoot 'n. Keep shoot 'n.

Nastavi pucati. Nastavi pucati.

(Machine gun fire)

(pucnjava)

Keep shoot 'n.

Nastavi pucati.

Hotel ... Bushmaster Two-Six, Bushmaster Two-Six,

Hotel...Bushmaster 2-6, Bushmaster 2-6,

we need to move, time now!

moramo otići, sad!

All right, we just engaged all eight individuals.

OK, upravo smo naciljali svih 8 osoba.

Yeah, we see two birds [helicopters], and we're still firing.

Da, vidimo dvije ptice (helikopteri), i dalje pucamo.

Roger. I got 'em.

Prijem. Imam ih.

Two-Six, this is Two-Six, we're mobile.

2-6, ovdje 2-6, krećemo.

Oops, I'm sorry. What was going on?

Oops, oprosti. Što se događalo?

God damn it, Kyle. All right, hahaha. I hit 'em.

K vragu, Kyle. Ok, hahahah. Pogodio sam ih.

CA: So, what was the impact of that?

CA: Dakle, kakav je bio utjecaj ove snimke?

JA: The impact on the people who worked on it

JA: Utjecaj na ljude koji su radili na ovome

was severe.

je bio snažan.

We ended up sending two people to Baghdad

Na kraju smo poslali dvoje ljudi u Bagdad

to further research that story.

da detaljnije istraže tu priču.

So this is just the first of three attacks

Ovo je samo prvi od tri napada

that occurred in that scene.

koja su se dogodila u toj sceni.

CA: So, I mean, 11 people died in that attack, right,

CA: Jedanaestero ljudi je poginulo u tom napadu,

including two Reuters employees?

uključujući dvoje zaposlenika Reutersa, zar ne?

JA: Yeah. Two Reuters employees,

JA: Da. Dva zaposlenika Reutersa,

two young children were wounded.

dvoje male djece bilo je ozlijeđeno.

There were between 18 and 26 people killed all together.

Ukupno je ubijeno između 18 i 26 ljudi.

CA: And releasing this caused

CA: Ovo objavljivanje uzrokovalo je

widespread outrage.

masovan bijes.

What was the key element of this

Koji je, po vašem mišljenju, bio ključni element

that actually caused the outrage, do you think?

koji je uzrokovao bijes?

JA: I don't know. I guess people can see

JA: Ne znam, pretpostavljam da su ljudi vidjeli

the gross disparity in force.

svo ogromno neslaganje u sili.

You have guys walking in a relaxed way down the street,

Imate ljude koji opušteno hodaju ulicom,

and then an Apache helicopter sitting up at one kilometer

i američki helikopter jedan kilometar izad njih

firing 30-millimeter cannon shells

koji ispaljuje 30-milimetarske metke

on everyone --

na sve...

looking for any excuse to do so --

samo gledajući razlog da to napravi...

and killing people rescuing the wounded.

i ubijajući ljude koji spašavaju ranjene.

And there was two journalists involved that clearly weren't insurgents

Tamo su bila dva novinara koji očito nisu bili pobunjenici,

because that's their full-time job.

jer su radili svoj posao.

CA: I mean, there's been this U.S. intelligence analyst,

CA: Uhićen je jedan američki obavještajni analitičar,

Bradley Manning, arrested,

Bradley Manning.

and it's alleged that he confessed in a chat room

Navodno je priznao u chat sobi,

to have leaked this video to you,

da je predao ovaj video isječak vama,

along with 280,000

skupa sa 280 000

classified U.S. embassy cables.

povjerljivih američkih telegrama.

I mean, did he?

Je li?

JA: We have denied receiving those cables.

JA: Mi smo demantirali primitak tih telegrama.

He has been charged,

Osuđen je,

about five days ago,

prije otprilike 5 dana,

with obtaining 150,000 cables

zbog pribavljanja 150 000 telegrama,

and releasing 50.

i objavljivanja njih 50.

Now, we had released,

Sad, mi smo objavili

early in the year,

ranije ove godine

a cable from the Reykjavik U.S. embassy,

telegram američke ambasade u Reykjaviku.

but this is not necessarily connected.

No, to nije nužno povezano.

I mean, I was a known visitor of that embassy.

Bio sam poznati posjetitelj te ambasade.

CA: I mean, if you did receive thousands

CA:Mislim, da ste primili tisuće

of U.S. embassy diplomatic cables ...

diplomatskih telegrama američke ambasade...

JA: We would have released them. (CA: You would?)

JA: Objavili bi ih. (CA: Biste?)

JA: Yeah. (CA: Because?)

JA: Da. (CA: Jer...?)

JA: Well, because these sort of things

JA: Jer, takva vrsta stvari,

reveal what the true state

otkriva stvarno stanje

of, say,

recimo

Arab governments are like,

arapskih vlada;

the true human-rights abuses in those governments.

pravu zloupotrebu ljudskih prava u tim vladama.

If you look at declassified cables,

Ako pogledate telegrame koji su otkriveni,

that's the sort of material that's there.

takva vrsta materijala je u njima.

CA: So let's talk a little more broadly about this.

CA: Hajdemo razgovarati malo općenitije o ovome.

I mean, in general, what's your philosophy?

Općenito, koja je Vaša filozofija?

Why is it right

Zašto je ispravno

to encourage leaking of secret information?

poticati curenje tajnih informacija?

JA: Well, there's a question as to what sort of information is important in the world,

JA: Pitanje je kakva je vrsta informacija bitna za svijet,

what sort of information

kakva vrsta informacija

can achieve reform.

može dovesti do promjena.

And there's a lot of information.

Mnogo je informacija.

So information that organizations

Informacije za koje organizacije

are spending economic effort into concealing,

troše novčana sredstva da ih zataškaju;

that's a really good signal

to je dobar znak

that when the information gets out,

da kad informacija ugleda svjetlo dana,

there's a hope of it doing some good --

postoji nada da će nešto dobro proizaći iz nje.

because the organizations that know it best,

Organizacije koje ih najbolje znaju,

that know it from the inside out,

koje ih znaju od početka do kraja,

are spending work to conceal it.

troše vrijeme da ih zataškaju

And that's what we've found in practice,

To je ono na što smo naišli u praksi.

and that's what the history of journalism is.

I to je povijest novinarstva.

CA: But are there risks with that,

CA: Ali, postoje li rizici,

either to the individuals concerned

za umješane ljude,

or indeed to society at large,

ili društvo u cjelini

where leaking can actually have

da curenje informacija zapravo može imati

an unintended consequence?

nenamjerne posljedice?

JA: Not that we have seen with anything we have released.

JA: Ne, koliko smo mi vidjeli s onim što smo objavili.

I mean, we have a harm immunization policy.

Mislim, mi imamo politiku prevencije štete.

We have a way of dealing with information

Imamo način na koji se odnosimo prema informacijama

that has sort of personal --

koje imaju određenu vrstu osobne...

personally identifying information in it.

...osobnih informacija u sebi.

But there are legitimate secrets --

No, postoje legitimne tajne...

you know, your records with your doctor;

vaši liječnički karton;

that's a legitimate secret --

to je pravna tajna.

but we deal with whistleblowers that are coming forward

Mi radimo sa zviždačima koji nam prilaze,

that are really sort of well-motivated.

i koji su veoma dobro motivirani.

CA: So they are well-motivated.

CA: Dakle dobro su motivirani.

And what would you say to, for example,

Što bi rekli, na primjer,

the, you know, the parent of someone

roditelju nekoga-

whose son is out serving the U.S. military,

čiji sin služi američkoj vojsci,

and he says, "You know what,

i kaže: "Znate,

you've put up something that someone had an incentive to put out.

objavili ste nešto za što je netko imao poticaj da se objavi.

It shows a U.S. soldier laughing

Prikazuje američkog vojnika kako se smije

at people dying.

ljudima koji umiru.

That gives the impression, has given the impression,

To daje dojam - dalo je dojam

to millions of people around the world

milijunima ljudi diljem svijeta

that U.S. soldiers are inhuman people.

da su američki vojnici nehumani.

Actually, they're not. My son isn't. How dare you?"

Zapravo, nisu. Moj sin nije. Kako se usuđujete?"

What would you say to that?

Što biste rekli na to?

JA: Yeah, we do get a lot of that.

JA: Da, dobivamo mnogo takvih reakcija.

But remember, the people in Baghdad,

No, sjetite se, ljudi u Bagadu,

the people in Iraq, the people in Afghanistan --

ljudi u Iraku, ljudi u Afganistanu...

they don't need to see the video;

oni ne trebaju vidjeti tu snimku;

they see it every day.

oni to gledaju svaki dan.

So it's not going to change their opinion. It's not going to change their perception.

To neće promijeniti njihovo mišljenje. Neće promijeniti njihovo shvaćanje.

That's what they see every day.

To je ono što oni vide svaki dan.

It will change the perception and opinion

Promijenit će shvaćanje i mišljenje ljudi

of the people who are paying for it all,

koji za sve to plaćaju.

and that's our hope.

Tu leži naša nada.

CA: So you found a way to shine light

CA: Dakle našli ste način da osvijetlite

into what you see

ono što smatrate

as these sort of dark secrets in companies and in government.

tamnim tajnama tvrtki i vlada.

Light is good.

Svjetlo je dobro.

But do you see any irony in the fact that,

Ali ne vidite li ironiju u činjenici da,

in order for you to shine that light,

da biste osvjetlili s tim svjetlom,

you have to, yourself,

sami morate

create secrecy around your sources?

tajiti svoje izvore?

JA: Not really. I mean, we don't have

JA: Ne baš. Mislim, još uvijek nemamo

any WikiLeaks dissidents yet.

WikiLeaks odmetnike.

We don't have sources who are dissidents on other sources.

Nemamo izvore koji se ne slažu s drugim izvorima.

Should they come forward, that would be a tricky situation for us,

Kad bi oni istupili, to bi bila škakljiva situacija za nas.

but we're presumably acting in such a way

Ali mi po svoj prilici djelujemo na način

that people feel

da se ljudi osjećaju

morally compelled

moralno primorani

to continue our mission, not to screw it up.

nastaviti našu misiju, ne zaj*.

CA: I'd actually be interested, just based on what we've heard so far --

CA: Zapravo me zanima, samo na temelju ovoga što smo čuli do sad...

I'm curious as to the opinion in the TED audience.

zanima me mišljenje TED publike.

You know, there might be a couple of views

Znate, možda postoji nekoliko gledišta na

of WikiLeaks and of Julian.

WikiLeaks i Juliana.

You know, hero -- people's hero --

Heroj, heroj ljudi,

bringing this important light.

nosioc važnog svjetla.

Dangerous troublemaker.

Opasni smutljivac.

Who's got the hero view?

Tko misli da je heroj?

Who's got the dangerous troublemaker view?

Tko misli da je opasni smutljivac?

JA: Oh, come on. There must be some.

JA: Ma, hajde. Mora postojati netko.

CA: It's a soft crowd, Julian, a soft crowd.

CA: Ovo je blaga publika, Julian, blaga publika.

We have to try better. Let's show them another example.

Moramo se više potruditi. Pokažimo im još jedan primjer.

Now here's something that you haven't yet leaked,

Ovo je nešto što još niste objavili,

but I think for TED you are.

ali objavit ćete za TED.

I mean it's an intriguing story that's just happened, right?

Ovo je intrigantna priča koja se tek dogodila, zar ne?

What is this?

O čemu se radi?

JA: So this is a sample of what we do

JA: Ovo je primjer onoga što radimo

sort of every day.

svaki dan.

So late last year -- in November last year --

Kasno prošle godine - u studenom prošle godine -

there was a series of well blowouts

dogodio se niz eksplozija bušotina

in Albania,

u Albaniji

like the well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico,

poput one u Meksičkom zaljevu,

but not quite as big.

no ne tolikih razmjera.

And we got a report --

Imamo izvještaj -

a sort of engineering analysis into what happened --

neku vrstu inžinjerske analize onoga što se dogodilo...

saying that, in fact, security guards

koja govori da su, u stvari, zaštitari

from some rival, various competing oil firms

nekog od suparnika, različitih suparničkih naftnih tvrtki,

had, in fact, parked trucks there and blown them up.

parkirali kamione tamo i raznijeli ih.

And part of the Albanian government was in this, etc., etc.

Dio albanske vlade je bio umješan itd., itd.

And the engineering report

Ovaj inženjerski izvještaj

had nothing on the top of it,

nema nikakvo uzglavlje.

so it was an extremely difficult document for us.

Bio je to veoma težak dokument za nas.

We couldn't verify it because we didn't know

Nismo mogli provjeriti njegovu autentičnost jer nismo znali

who wrote it and knew what it was about.

tko ga je napisao, a znali smo o čemu je.

So we were kind of skeptical that maybe it was

Bili smo sumnjičavi ne poigrava li se

a competing oil firm just sort of playing the issue up.

suparnička naftna tvrtka s tim.

So under that basis, we put it out and said,

Uzimajući to u obzir, objavili smo to i rekli,

"Look, we're skeptical about this thing.

"Gle, mi smo sumnjičavi oko ovoga.

We don't know, but what can we do?

Ne znamo, ali što možemo napraviti oko toga?

The material looks good, it feels right,

Materijal izgleda dobro, imamo osjećaj da je ispravan,

but we just can't verify it."

ali jednostavno ne možemo provjeriti njegovu autentičnost."

And we then got a letter

Dobili smo pismo

just this week

baš ovaj tjedan

from the company who wrote it,

od tvrtke koja ga je napisala,

wanting to track down the source --

koja želi ući u trag izvoru -

(Laughter)

(smijeh)

saying, "Hey, we want to track down the source."

i koja govori, "Hej, želimo pronaći izvor."

And we were like, "Oh, tell us more.

Na što smo mi odgovorili, "Oh, recite nam više.

What document is it, precisely, you're talking about?

O kojem točno dokumentu govorite?

Can you show that you had legal authority over that document?

Možete li nam pokazati da imate pravnu moć nad tim dokumentom?

Is it really yours?"

Da li je zbilja Vaš?"

So they sent us this screen shot

Tako su nam poslali ovaj snimak ekrana

with the author

sa autorom

in the Microsoft Word ID.

na osobnoj karti u Microsoft Wordu..

Yeah.

Da.

(Applause)

(pljesak)

That's happened quite a lot though.

Ovo se, međutim, dogodilo poprilično mnogo puta.

This is like one of our methods

Ovo je jedna od naših metoda

of identifying, of verifying, what a material is,

identificiranja - provjeravanja materijala

is to try and get these guys to write letters.

- pokušati natjerati ove dečke da napišu pisma.

CA: Yeah. Have you had information

CA: Da. Jeste imali informacije

from inside BP?

unutar BP-a?

JA: Yeah, we have a lot, but I mean, at the moment,

JA: Da, imamo mnogo, ali, u ovom trenutku,

we are undergoing a sort of serious fundraising and engineering effort.

prolazimo kroz ozbiljne inženjerske pokušaje i pokušaje sakupljanja novčanih sredstava.

So our publication rate

Naša stopa objavljivanja

over the past few months

u zadnjih nekoliko mjeseci

has been sort of minimized

je minimalizirana

while we're re-engineering our back systems

dok prepravljamo naše pričuvne sisteme

for the phenomenal public interest that we have.

za izvanredni javni interes koji imamo.

That's a problem.

To je problem.

I mean, like any sort of growing startup organization,

Kao svaka rastuća organizacija u svojim početcima,

we are sort of overwhelmed

na neki način smo preplavljeni

by our growth,

sa vlastitim rastom.

and that means we're getting enormous quantity

To znači da dobivamo ogromnu količinu

of whistleblower disclosures

informacija od strane zviždača

of a very high caliber

veoma visokog kalibra,

but don't have enough people to actually

ali nemamo dovoljno ljudi da zapravo

process and vet this information.

istraže sve te informacije.

CA: So that's the key bottleneck,

CA: To je zapravo ključni limitirajući faktor,

basically journalistic volunteers

novinari volonteri

and/or the funding of journalistic salaries?

i/ili financiranje plaća novinarima?

JA: Yep. Yeah, and trusted people.

JA: Da. Da, i ljudi kojima možemo vjerovati.

I mean, we're an organization

Mi smo organizacija

that is hard to grow very quickly

kojoj je teško rasti jako brzo

because of the sort of material we deal with,

zbog vrste materijala s kojom se bavimo.

so we have to restructure

Moramo se restrukturirati

in order to have people

da bi imali ljude

who will deal with the highest national security stuff,

koji će se baviti sa stvarima najviše nacionalne sigurnosti,

and then lower security cases.

a onda sa manjim slučajevima.

CA: So help us understand a bit about you personally

CA: Pomozi nam shvatiti tebe osobno

and how you came to do this.

i kako si došao do toga da radiš ovo.

And I think I read that as a kid

Mislim da sam pročitao da si kao dijete

you went to 37 different schools.

išao u 37 različitih škola.

Can that be right?

Zar je to točno?

JA: Well, my parents were in the movie business

JA: Da, moji roditelji su bili u filmskoj industriji

and then on the run from a cult,

i onda u bijegu od kulta,

so the combination between the two ...

tako da kombinacija između to dvoje...

(Laughter)

(smijeh)

CA: I mean, a psychologist might say

CA: Mislim, psiholog bi mogao reći

that's a recipe for breeding paranoia.

da je to recept za nastanak paranoje.

JA: What, the movie business?

JA: Što, filmska industrija?

(Laughter)

(smijeh)

(Applause)

(pljesak)

CA: And you were also -- I mean,

CA: Bio si također -

you were also a hacker at an early age

bio si također haker u veoma ranoj dobi

and ran into the authorities early on.

i susreo se s vlastima veoma rano.

JA: Well, I was a journalist.

JA: Pa, bio sam novinar.

You know, I was a very young journalist activist at an early age.

Znate, bio sam veoma mlad novinar aktivist u veoma ranoj dobi.

I wrote a magazine,

Uređivao sam časopis,

was prosecuted for it when I was a teenager.

bio osuđivan zbog njega kao adolescent.

So you have to be careful with hacker.

Morate biti oprezni s hakiranjem.

I mean there's like -- there's a method

Mislim, postoji... postoji metoda

that can be deployed for various things.

koja može biti upotrebljena za različite stvari.

Unfortunately, at the moment,

Na žalost, trenutno,

it's mostly deployed by the Russian mafia

najviše je korištena od strane ruske mafije

in order to steal your grandmother's bank accounts.

kako bi se ukrali bankovni računi Vaše bake.

So this phrase is not,

Tako da taj izraz nije...

not as nice as it used to be.

nije lijep kao što je nekad bio.

CA: Yeah, well, I certainly don't think

CA: Da, pa, zasigurno ne mislim

you're stealing anyone's grandmother's bank account,

da kradeš bankovne račune ičijih baka.

but what about

Ali što je s

your core values?

tvojim osnovnim vrijednostima?

Can you give us a sense of what they are

Možeš li nam objasniti što su one

and maybe some incident in your life

i možda navesti događaj u svom životu

that helped determine them?

koji ih je pomogao oblikovati?

JA: I'm not sure about the incident.

JA: Nisam siguran o događaju.

But the core values:

Ali osnovne vrijednosti:

well, capable, generous men

dobri, sposobni, velikodušni ljudi

do not create victims;

ne stvaraju žrtve;

they nurture victims.

oni njeguju žrtve.

And that's something from my father

I to je nešto što sam naučio od oca

and something from other capable, generous men

i ostalih sposobnih, velikodušnih ljudi

that have been in my life.

u mom životu.

CA: Capable, generous men do not create victims;

CA: Sposobni, velikodušni ljudi ne stvaraju žrtve;

they nurture victims?

oni njeguju žrtve?

JA: Yeah. And you know,

JA: Da. I, znate,

I'm a combative person,

ja sam ratoborna osoba,

so I'm not actually so big on the nurture,

tako da nisam pretjerano dobar u njegovanju.

but some way --

Ali -

there is another way of nurturing victims,

postoji drugi način njegovanja žrtvi,

which is to police perpetrators

a taj je kontroliranje počinitelja

of crime.

zločina.

And so that is something

I to je nešto

that has been in my character

što je u mojoj osobnosti

for a long time.

jako dugo vremena.

CA: So just tell us, very quickly in the last minute, the story:

CA: Reci nam, jako brzo u zadnjoj minuti, priču:

what happened in Iceland?

što se dogodilo na Islandu?

You basically published something there,

Zapravo ste objavili nešto tamo,

ran into trouble with a bank,

naišli na probleme s bankom,

then the news service there

nakon čega je novinskoj agenciji tamo

was injuncted from running the story.

zabranjena objava priče.

Instead, they publicized your side.

Umjesto toga, objavili su vašu stranu priče.

That made you very high-profile in Iceland. What happened next?

To vas je učinilo veoma utjecajnim na Islandu. Što se dogodilo nakon toga?

JA: Yeah, this is a great case, you know.

JA: Da, znate, ovo je velik slučaj.

Iceland went through this financial crisis.

Island je prošao kroz financijsku krizu.

It was the hardest hit of any country in the world.

Bio je to najveći udarac na bilo koju zemlju u svijetu.

Its banking sector was 10 times the GDP

Bankarski sektor je bio 10 puta BDP-a veći

of the rest of the economy.

od ostatka ekonomije.

Anyway, so we release this report

U svakom slučaju, objavili smo ovaj izvještaj

in July last year.

u srpnju prošle godine.

And the national TV station was injuncted

Nacionalnoj televiziji bilo je zabranjeno prikazivanje

five minutes before it went on air,

5 minuta prije nego što je prilog trebao biti emitiran.

like out of a movie: injunction landed on the news desk,

Kao u filmu, zabrana se našla na stolu,

and the news reader was like,

i voditelj je bio,

"This has never happened before. What do we do?"

"Ovo se nikad prije nije dogodilo. Što da radimo?"

Well, we just show the website instead,

Pa smo umjesto toga prikazali web stranicu,

for all that time, as a filler,

cijelo to vrijeme, kao zamjenu.

and we became very famous in Iceland,

Postali smo veoma poznati na Islandu,

went to Iceland and spoke about this issue.

otišli smo tamo i pričali o ovoj temi.

And there was a feeling in the community

Mišljenje je u zajednici

that that should never happen again,

da se nešto tako ne smije više dogoditi.

and as a result,

Kao rezultat

working with Icelandic politicians

rada sa nekima od islandskih političara

and some other international legal experts,

i drugim međunarodnim pravnim stručnjacima,

we put together a new sort of

sastavili smo neku vrstu novog

package of legislation for Iceland

paketa zakona za Island

to sort of become an offshore haven

da postane "offshore" raj

for the free press,

za slobodni tisak,

with the strongest journalistic protections in the world,

sa najjačim zaštitama novinara na svijetu,

with a new Nobel Prize

sa novom Nobelovom nagradom

for freedom of speech.

za slobodu govora.

Iceland's a Nordic country,

Island je nordijska zemlja

so, like Norway, it's able to tap into the system.

pa je, poput Norveške, sposobna unijeti to u svoj sistem.

And just a month ago,

Baš prije mjesec dana,

this was passed by the Icelandic parliament unanimously.

ovo je jednoglasno prošlo u islandskom parlamentu.

CA: Wow.

CA: Wow.

(Applause)

(pljesak)

Last question, Julian.

Posljednje pitanje, Julian.

When you think of the future then,

Kad razmišljaš o budućnosti,

do you think it's more likely to be

misliš li da je vjerojatnije da će

Big Brother exerting more control,

Big Brother preuzeti više količinu kontrole,

more secrecy,

više privatnosti,

or us watching

ili ćemo mi gledati

Big Brother,

Big Brothera,

or it's just all to be played for either way?

ili će se to tek odigrati?

JA: I'm not sure which way it's going to go.

JA: Nisam siguran u kojem će smjeru krenuti.

I mean, there's enormous pressures

Mislim, postoje ogromni pritisci

to harmonize freedom of speech legislation

da se izjednače zakoni o slobodi govora

and transparency legislation around the world --

i transparentnosti diljem svijeta -

within the E.U.,

unutar EU,

between China and the United States.

između Kine i SAD-a.

Which way is it going to go? It's hard to see.

Kojim će putem krenuti? Teško je vidjeti.

That's why it's a very interesting time to be in --

Zato je veoma zanimljivo biti u ovom vremenu,

because with just a little bit of effort,

jer sa samo malo truda

we can shift it one way or the other.

možemo pomaknuti ravnotežu na jednu ili drugu stranu.

CA: Well, it looks like I'm reflecting the audience's opinion

CA: Pa, mislim da govorim u ime publike kad kažem

to say, Julian, be careful,

Julian, budi oprezan

and all power to you.

i samo naprijed.

JA: Thank you, Chris. (CA: Thank you.)

JA: Hvala, Chris. (CA: Hvala tebi.)

(Applause)

(pljesak)