Celeste Headlee: 10 ways to have a better conversation | TED

譯者: Yu-Chen Chu 審譯者: 易帆 余

All right, I want to see a show of hands:

好的，我想請大家舉個手表態：

how many of you have unfriended someone on Facebook

有多少人曾在臉書上 因為對方談論了讓你很反感的

because they said something offensive about politics or religion,

政治或信仰議題而被你刪除好友？

childcare, food?

兒童保育、食物等？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And how many of you know at least one person that you avoid

有多少人曾迴避過別人

because you just don't want to talk to them?

因為你就是不想跟他們講話？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

You know, it used to be that in order to have a polite conversation,

要知道，在過去想要有 一段禮貌性的談話，

we just had to follow the advice of Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady":

我們只需要遵循《窈窕淑女》裡 亨利希金斯的忠告：

Stick to the weather and your health.

只要談論天氣跟你的健康就好。

But these days, with climate change and anti-vaxxing, those subjects --

但近幾年，氣候變化 以及反對疫苗運動的議題 ——

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

are not safe either.

可能也會讓對方睡著。

So this world that we live in,

所以我們生活的這個世界，

this world in which every conversation

每個對話

has the potential to devolve into an argument,

都有可能發展成爭論，

where our politicians can't speak to one another

政客們不能建立對話，

and where even the most trivial of issues

即使是微不足道的議題

have someone fighting both passionately for it and against it, it's not normal.

都會因為有人激昂地贊成或 反對而爭吵，這並不正常。

Pew Research did a study of 10,000 American adults,

皮尤研究中心對一萬名 美國成人做了個調查，

and they found that at this moment, we are more polarized,

發現目前我們偏激的程度，

we are more divided,

我們立場鮮明的程度，

than we ever have been in history.

比歷史上任何時期都要高。

We're less likely to compromise,

我們更不容易妥協，

which means we're not listening to each other.

這代表我們沒有傾聽彼此。

And we make decisions about where to live,

而且連我們決定要住在哪裡、

who to marry and even who our friends are going to be,

要跟誰結婚、甚至要跟誰做朋友，

based on what we already believe.

都只基於我們已有的信念。

Again, that means we're not listening to each other.

我再說一遍，這表示 我們沒有傾聽彼此。

A conversation requires a balance between talking and listening,

對話是建立在「說跟聽」的平衡之上，

and somewhere along the way, we lost that balance.

然而不知自何時起 我們丟失了那個平衡。

Now, part of that is due to technology.

有一部分是因為科技，

The smartphones that you all either have in your hands

比如手機，現在就在你們手裏，

or close enough that you could grab them really quickly.

或者就在旁邊，隨手就能拿到。

According to Pew Research,

根據皮尤研究中心的研究，

about a third of American teenagers send more than a hundred texts a day.

約三分之一的美國青少年 每天傳送超過一百條訊息，

And many of them, almost most of them, are more likely to text their friends

其中許多人甚至可說是大部分的人 更傾向於發訊息給朋友，

than they are to talk to them face to face.

而不是面對面的交談。

There's this great piece in The Atlantic.

《大西洋》雜誌上有篇很棒的文章，

It was written by a high school teacher named Paul Barnwell.

作者是位高中老師 保羅．巴恩威，

他給他的孩子們出了一項溝通任務

And he gave his kids a communication project.

He wanted to teach them how to speak on a specific subject without using notes.

希望教會他們如何不借助筆記， 針對某一話題發表演講。

And he said this: "I came to realize..."

他說：「我發現......」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"I came to realize that conversational competence

我發現到「溝通能力」

might be the single most overlooked skill we fail to teach.

大概是我們最忽略、 沒好好教孩子的能力之一。

Kids spend hours each day engaging with ideas and each other through screens,

孩子每天在螢幕前花好幾小時 找想法及跟同儕互動，

but rarely do they have an opportunity

但他們卻少有機會

to hone their interpersonal communications skills.

磨練他們人與人之間的溝通技巧，

It might sound like a funny question, but we have to ask ourselves:

這問題聽起來很好笑， 但我們得問自己：

Is there any 21st-century skill

「21世紀，有什麽技能

more important than being able to sustain coherent, confident conversation?"

會比維持一段連貫、 自信的談話更為重要？」

Now, I make my living talking to people:

我的職業就是跟別人談話。

Nobel Prize winners, truck drivers,

諾貝爾獎得主、卡車司機

billionaires, kindergarten teachers,

億萬富翁、幼稚園老師

heads of state, plumbers.

州長、水電工

I talk to people that I like. I talk to people that I don't like.

我得跟我喜歡的人交談 我得跟我不喜歡的人交談。

I talk to some people that I disagree with deeply on a personal level.

跟我個人意見極度相左的人交談。

But I still have a great conversation with them.

但我還是能跟他們開心地聊上一段。

So I'd like to spend the next 10 minutes or so teaching you how to talk

所以接下來十分鐘， 我要教各位怎麼說話，

and how to listen.

還有怎麼傾聽。

Many of you have already heard a lot of advice on this,

在場許多人都聽過這一類的建議，

things like look the person in the eye,

比如，看著對方的眼睛，

think of interesting topics to discuss in advance,

提前想好可以討論的有趣話題，

look, nod and smile to show that you're paying attention,

注視、點頭並且微笑表示你有在聽，

repeat back what you just heard or summarize it.

重覆你剛才聽到的，或者做總結。

So I want you to forget all of that.

我希望你們全忘掉這些，

It is crap.

因為全是屁話。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

There is no reason to learn how to show you're paying attention

根本沒必要去學習 如何表現你很專心，

if you are in fact paying attention.

如果你真的很......專心的話。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Now, I actually use the exact same skills as a professional interviewer

我其實只是把職業面試者 一模一樣的技巧

that I do in regular life.

用在日常生活中。

So, I'm going to teach you how to interview people,

所以，我要教各位怎麼面試人，

and that's actually going to help you learn how to be better conversationalists.

這會幫助各位成為 更棒的談話者。

Learn to have a conversation

學習建立起談話，

without wasting your time, without getting bored,

但不讓談話浪費你的時間 也不讓談話讓你覺得無聊，

and, please God, without offending anybody.

還有拜託不要激怒任何人。

We've all had really great conversations.

我們都有過很棒的談話經驗。

We've had them before. We know what it's like.

大家都有過經驗， 我們知道很棒的對話是什麼樣子。

The kind of conversation where you walk away feeling engaged and inspired,

那種結束之後令你感到 很享受，很受鼓舞的交談，

or where you feel like you've made a real connection

或者令你覺得你和別人 建立了真實的連接，

or you've been perfectly understood.

或者讓你完全得到了他人的理解。

There is no reason

沒有理由說

why most of your interactions can't be like that.

各位大部分的人際互動 不能成為那樣。

So I have 10 basic rules. I'm going to walk you through all of them,

我有10條基本規則， 我會一條條向各位解釋，

but honestly, if you just choose one of them and master it,

但說實在的，如果你從中選一條 練到爐火純青，

you'll already enjoy better conversations.

你就已經可以享受 更愉快的對話了。

Number one: Don't multitask.

第一條：不要一心多用

And I don't mean just set down your cell phone

我不是說單純放下你的手機、

or your tablet or your car keys or whatever is in your hand.

平板電腦、車鑰匙， 或者隨便什麽握在手裏的東西。

I mean, be present.

我的意思是，處在當下。

Be in that moment.

進入到那個情境中去。

Don't think about your argument you had with your boss.

不要想著你之前和老板的爭吵。

Don't think about what you're going to have for dinner.

不要想著你晚飯吃什麽。

If you want to get out of the conversation,

如果你想退出交談，

get out of the conversation,

就退出交談。

but don't be half in it and half out of it.

但不要心不在焉。

Number two: Don't pontificate.

第二條：不要自以為是。

If you want to state your opinion

如果你想要表達自己的看法，

without any opportunity for response or argument or pushback or growth,

又不想讓別人有機會可以 回應、爭論、反駁或成長，

write a blog.

那你寫部落格就好了啊......

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Now, there's a really good reason why I don't allow pundits on my show:

我不讓權威專家上我節目 是有理由的：

Because they're really boring.

因為他們真的很無聊。

If they're conservative, they're going to hate Obama and food stamps and abortion.

如果他們是保守派 他們就會討厭歐巴馬、食物券跟墮胎

If they're liberal, they're going to hate

如果他們是自由派 他們就會討厭

big banks and oil corporations and Dick Cheney.

大銀行、石油公司還有迪克錢尼 （小布希政府時期的副總統）

Totally predictable.

完全猜得到。

And you don't want to be like that.

但大家不會希望是那樣。

You need to enter every conversation assuming that you have something to learn.

你需要在進入每一次談話時， 先假定自己可以學習到一些東西。

The famed therapist M. Scott Peck said

知名的治療師史考特派克說過，

that true listening requires a setting aside of oneself.

「真正的傾聽需要放下自己」。

And sometimes that means setting aside your personal opinion.

有時候可能指的是放下自己的意見。

He said that sensing this acceptance,

他說，「如果說話的人感受到了你的接納，

the speaker will become less and less vulnerable

他會變得比較不那麼敏感，

and more and more likely to open up the inner recesses

更有可能會向你 吐露自己的心聲。」

of his or her mind to the listener.

Again, assume that you have something to learn.

再次強調，請想著你會學到東西。

Bill Nye: "Everyone you will ever meet knows something that you don't."

比爾奈說過：「你遇到的每個人 都知道一些你不知道的事。」

I put it this way:

我換句話說：

Everybody is an expert in something.

每個人都是某方面的專家。

Number three: Use open-ended questions.

第三項：使用開放式問題，

In this case, take a cue from journalists.

關於這點，可以參考 記者採訪的提問方式。

Start your questions with who, what, when, where, why or how.

從人、事、時、地、 原因、方式開始問。

If you put in a complicated question, you're going to get a simple answer out.

如果你詢問一個複雜的問題 將會得到一個簡單的回答。

If I ask you, "Were you terrified?"

如果我問：「你害怕嗎？」

you're going to respond to the most powerful word in that sentence,

你只會針對這句子中 最有力的字——「害怕」

which is "terrified," and the answer is "Yes, I was" or "No, I wasn't."

來做回答，並只會回應 「是」或「不是」

"Were you angry?" "Yes, I was very angry."

「你生氣嗎？」「是，我很生氣」

Let them describe it. They're the ones that know.

讓對方描述嘛， 對方才是了解事情的人。

Try asking them things like, "What was that like?"

好比問他們「那是什麽情境？」

"How did that feel?"

「你感覺怎麼樣？」

Because then they might have to stop for a moment and think about it,

因為這樣他們可能就會想一下

and you're going to get a much more interesting response.

你也會得到更有趣的回答。

Number four: Go with the flow.

第四條：順其自然。

That means thoughts will come into your mind

也就是說，想法會 自然流入你的頭腦，

and you need to let them go out of your mind.

你只要把它們表達出來。

We've heard interviews often

我們常會聽到訪談

in which a guest is talking for several minutes

來賓說了好幾分鐘，

and then the host comes back in and asks a question

然後主持人回過來問問題，

which seems like it comes out of nowhere, or it's already been answered.

問題卻扯不上關係或是 來賓已經回答過了。

That means the host probably stopped listening two minutes ago

這表示主持人可能兩分鐘前就沒在聽了，

because he thought of this really clever question,

因為他一想到 這個非常機智的問題，

and he was just bound and determined to say that.

就會一心一意地 想著這個問題。

And we do the exact same thing.

我們也會這樣。

We're sitting there having a conversation with someone,

我們跟某人坐著聊天

and then we remember that time that we met Hugh Jackman in a coffee shop.

我們突然想起那次和 休傑克曼在咖啡店的偶遇。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And we stop listening.

然後我們就沒在聽對方說話了。

Stories and ideas are going to come to you.

故事跟想法會在心中浮現，

You need to let them come and let them go.

你得學會記住，也得學會順其自然。

Number five: If you don't know, say that you don't know.

第五條：如果你不懂，就說你不懂。

Now, people on the radio, especially on NPR,

廣播節目裏的人，尤其在 全國公共廣播電台（NPR）中，

are much more aware that they're going on the record,

非常明白他們的談話 會被播放出去。

and so they're more careful about what they claim to be an expert in

所以他們對自己聲稱專業的地方

and what they claim to know for sure.

以及言之鑿鑿的東西會更加小心。

Do that. Err on the side of caution.

請這樣做：謹言慎行。

Talk should not be cheap.

談話不應該隨便。

Number six: Don't equate your experience with theirs.

第六條：別拿自己的經驗 跟別人的相提並論。

If they're talking about having lost a family member,

如果他們談到親人離世

don't start talking about the time you lost a family member.

別開始說自己的親人離世，

If they're talking about the trouble they're having at work,

如果他們談論到工作上的瓶頸，

don't tell them about how much you hate your job.

別開始說你有多討厭你的工作。

It's not the same. It is never the same.

不會一樣的，永遠不可能一樣。

All experiences are individual.

任何經歷都是獨一無二的。

And, more importantly, it is not about you.

而且，更重要的是， 這不是在談論你的事。

You don't need to take that moment to prove how amazing you are

你不用在這個時候， 證明你有多厲害

or how much you've suffered.

或是你有多煎熬。

Somebody asked Stephen Hawking once what his IQ was, and he said,

有人問過史蒂芬霍金他的智商多少

"I have no idea. People who brag about their IQs are losers."

他說：「我不知道， 但會吹噓自己智商的人通常是魯蛇」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Conversations are not a promotional opportunity.

交談是在推銷自己。

Number seven:

第七條：

盡量別重覆自己的話。

Try not to repeat yourself.

It's condescending, and it's really boring,

這樣很傲慢也很無聊，

and we tend to do it a lot.

但我們卻常這樣做。

Especially in work conversations or in conversations with our kids,

特別是在聊工作或是跟孩子說話時，

we have a point to make,

當我們想聲明一個觀點，

so we just keep rephrasing it over and over.

會換個方法不停地撈叨，

Don't do that.

別這樣做。

Number eight: Stay out of the weeds.

第八條：不要細數無關緊要的事。

Frankly, people don't care

坦白說，沒有人會在乎

about the years, the names,

年份、名字

the dates, all those details

日期等細節，

that you're struggling to come up with in your mind.

你努力試圖在腦中 回想那些細節，

They don't care. What they care about is you.

但對方其實不在乎 他們在乎的是你。

They care about what you're like,

他們在乎你是什麼樣的人，

what you have in common.

你們之間有什麼共通處。

So forget the details. Leave them out.

所以忘掉細節吧，別管那些。

Number nine:

第九條：

This is not the last one, but it is the most important one.

這不是最後一條，但， 是最重要的一條：

Listen.

「傾聽」。

I cannot tell you how many really important people have said

我說不出有多少重要人士說過，

that listening is perhaps the most, the number one most important skill

傾聽大概是你可以努力學習

that you could develop.

最重要的技巧。

Buddha said, and I'm paraphrasing,

佛曰——我轉述一下，

"If your mouth is open, you're not learning."

「如果你開口說話，你就學不到東西」。

And Calvin Coolidge said, "No man ever listened his way out of a job."

卡爾文．柯立芝說過： 「沒有人因為聽太多而被開除」。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Why do we not listen to each other?

為什麼我們不傾聽彼此？

Number one, we'd rather talk.

第一點是因為大家很愛講。

When I'm talking, I'm in control.

我說話的時候，我就有主控權。

I don't have to hear anything I'm not interested in.

我不想聽到我不感興趣的事，

I'm the center of attention.

我是注意力的焦點，

I can bolster my own identity.

我可以強化自己的認同感。

But there's another reason:

但還有一個原因：

We get distracted.

我們會分心。

The average person talks at about 225 word per minute,

一個人每分鐘平均大概會說 225 個字

but we can listen at up to 500 words per minute.

但我們每分鐘可以聽進 500 個字

So our minds are filling in those other 275 words.

所以我們腦袋就會自己 補上那 275 個字。

And look, I know, it takes effort and energy

我知道真正地專心聽別人講話 很耗費精力，

to actually pay attention to someone,

but if you can't do that, you're not in a conversation.

但如果你不這麽做， 你們就不是在交談。

You're just two people shouting out barely related sentences

你們就只是兩個人在同一個地方

彼此大吼著不相干的句子。

in the same place.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

You have to listen to one another.

你們得互相傾聽。

Stephen Covey said it very beautifully.

史蒂芬．柯维說得很棒，

He said, "Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand.

他說：「我們大多數人 都不是為了理解而傾聽，

We listen with the intent to reply."

我們只是為了想要回答而聽」。

One more rule, number 10, and it's this one: Be brief.

最後一條，第十條：簡明扼要。

[A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enough to retain interest,

好的談話就像迷你裙 短到能留住大家的興趣，

but long enough to cover the subject. -- My Sister]

但又長到重點都包得到， 引用自我妹妹的話。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

All of this boils down to the same basic concept, and it is this one:

這全都能歸結成一項基本概念 那就是：

Be interested in other people.

對他人產生興趣。

You know, I grew up with a very famous grandfather,

我在一個名人爺爺的身邊長大，

and there was kind of a ritual in my home.

我家裏賓客絡繹不絕，

People would come over to talk to my grandparents,

大家會來找爺爺奶奶聊天，

and after they would leave, my mother would come over to us,

他們要離開的時候 我母親會過來問我們，

and she'd say, "Do you know who that was?

她說：「你知道那是誰嗎？

She was the runner-up to Miss America.

她是美國小姐亞軍。

He was the mayor of Sacramento.

他是沙加緬度市長。

She won a Pulitzer Prize. He's a Russian ballet dancer."

她得過普立茲獎。 他是俄羅斯芭蕾舞者。

And I kind of grew up assuming

我從小就會覺得

everyone has some hidden, amazing thing about them.

每個人都有不為人知的精彩。

And honestly, I think it's what makes me a better host.

老實說，我覺得這點 讓我成為更棒的主持人。

I keep my mouth shut as often as I possibly can,

我盡量少說話，

I keep my mind open,

抱持著開放心胸，

and I'm always prepared to be amazed,

永遠準備好大開眼界，

and I'm never disappointed.

而且我從來不會感到失望。

You do the same thing.

各位也可以這樣，

Go out, talk to people,

走出去，跟別人交談，

listen to people,

聽別人說，

and, most importantly, be prepared to be amazed.

以及最重要的，準備好大開眼界。

Thanks.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）