Celeste Headlee: 10 ways to have a better conversation | TED

Translator: Hiuman Ma Reviewer: Alan Watson

All right, I want to see a show of hands:

有幾多人曾經因為好友

how many of you have unfriended someone on Facebook

喺政治、宗教育兒、糧食議題上

because they said something offensive about politics or religion,

講咗冒犯嘅嘢而喺臉書刪除佢哋？

childcare, food?

請舉手

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And how many of you know at least one person that you avoid

有幾多人有最少一位朋友

because you just don't want to talk to them?

因為你唔想同佢傾偈而逃避架？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

You know, it used to be that in order to have a polite conversation,

我哋以前如果想有禮貌咁傾計

我哋就會聽《窈窕淑女》入面 亨利希金斯嘅話

we just had to follow the advice of Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady":

只講天氣同健康

Stick to the weather and your health.

But these days, with climate change and anti-vaxxing, those subjects --

但宜家因為氣候轉變、反疫苗嘅討論

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

天氣同健康嘅話題都唔再安全嘞

are not safe either.

So this world that we live in,

我哋身處嘅呢個世界係唔正常

this world in which every conversation

任何傾偈都有可能演變成爭執

has the potential to devolve into an argument,

where our politicians can't speak to one another

而政客，會無法同其他政客溝通

and where even the most trivial of issues

連最微不足道嘅事

have someone fighting both passionately for it and against it, it's not normal.

都有人激烈地支持同反對

Pew Research did a study of 10,000 American adults,

皮尤研究中心研究咗一萬名美國成人

發現今時今日嘅人

and they found that at this moment, we are more polarized,

係歷史上最極端、最分化嘅人

we are more divided,

than we ever have been in history.

We're less likely to compromise,

我哋唔再輕易妥協

which means we're not listening to each other.

即係話我哋唔再聆聽對方

And we make decisions about where to live,

我哋選擇居所、伴侶，甚至朋友時

who to marry and even who our friends are going to be,

based on what we already believe.

只係按個人已有嘅信念

即係話我哋唔再聆聽對方

Again, that means we're not listening to each other.

雖然傾偈需要平衡講同聽

A conversation requires a balance between talking and listening,

and somewhere along the way, we lost that balance.

但逐漸地，我哋失去咗呢種平衝

Now, part of that is due to technology.

當中部分原因係因為科技

因為你手上面或者 擺喺附近嘅智能電話

The smartphones that you all either have in your hands

or close enough that you could grab them really quickly.

根據皮尤研究

According to Pew Research,

about a third of American teenagers send more than a hundred texts a day.

三分一美國青年每日傳過百則短訊

And many of them, almost most of them, are more likely to text their friends

當中大多數，幾乎全部，寧願傳短訊

than they are to talk to them face to face.

都唔同朋友面對面傾偈

There's this great piece in The Atlantic.

《大西洋月刊》曾經有篇佳作

作者係一名高中老師叫保羅班韋

It was written by a high school teacher named Paul Barnwell.

佢畀佢小朋友做一份溝通習作

And he gave his kids a communication project.

教佢哋點樣唔靠筆記去傾特定話題

He wanted to teach them how to speak on a specific subject without using notes.

佢話：「我發現…」

And he said this: "I came to realize..."

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"I came to realize that conversational competence

「我發現說話能力

might be the single most overlooked skill we fail to teach.

可能係教育裡面最常被忽視嘅技能。

Kids spend hours each day engaging with ideas and each other through screens,

小朋友每日花幾個鐘透過螢幕 獲取意念同交換想法，

but rarely do they have an opportunity

但鮮有機會磨練人際溝通能力。

to hone their interpersonal communications skills.

It might sound like a funny question, but we have to ask ourselves:

我哋要問自己一條睇落好笑嘅問題︰

Is there any 21st-century skill

廿一世紀到底有無一種技能

more important than being able to sustain coherent, confident conversation?"

比起說話有條理、有自信更緊要？」

Now, I make my living talking to people:

我宜家靠同人傾偈搵食

Nobel Prize winners, truck drivers,

客人有諾貝爾獎得主、貨車司機

billionaires, kindergarten teachers,

億萬富豪、幼兒園老師

國家元首、水管工人

heads of state, plumbers.

I talk to people that I like. I talk to people that I don't like.

鍾意嘅同唔鍾意嘅人我都會同佢哋傾

I talk to some people that I disagree with deeply on a personal level.

我同一啲我個人嚟講 好唔認同嘅人傾偈

But I still have a great conversation with them.

但我哋之間嘅對話始終好開心

So I'd like to spend the next 10 minutes or so teaching you how to talk

我想用接著落嚟十分鐘

教你哋說話同聆聽

and how to listen.

Many of you have already heard a lot of advice on this,

你哋好多人都聽過唔少建議

things like look the person in the eye,

例如保持眼神交流

think of interesting topics to discuss in advance,

預先諗好有趣嘅話題去講

look, nod and smile to show that you're paying attention,

用眼神、點頭同微笑 表示你係留心對話嘅

以及講返或者總結你啱啱聽到嘅

repeat back what you just heard or summarize it.

但我想你哋通通忘記呢啲建議

So I want you to forget all of that.

It is crap.

呢啲建議太垃圾喇

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

如果你真係有留心聽人哋講嘢

There is no reason to learn how to show you're paying attention

if you are in fact paying attention.

根本唔洗學點樣表現你專心

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Now, I actually use the exact same skills as a professional interviewer

我平時用嘅技巧

同我做專業面試官時嘅一樣

that I do in regular life.

So, I'm going to teach you how to interview people,

所以我會教你哋點樣訪問人

and that's actually going to help you learn how to be better conversationalists.

令你哋交談裏面更善辭令

Learn to have a conversation

首先要學識唔好畀對話 浪費你嘅時間同令你覺得悶

without wasting your time, without getting bored,

and, please God, without offending anybody.

更重要係唔好冒犯到人

We've all had really great conversations.

我哋都試過傾得好暢快

即係話我哋知道好嘅交談係點嘅樣

We've had them before. We know what it's like.

The kind of conversation where you walk away feeling engaged and inspired,

就好似你傾完之後覺得 真係有參與到討論同獲得啓發

又或者傾完之後你覺得同人關係密切

or where you feel like you've made a real connection

or you've been perfectly understood.

或者人哋完全明白你

There is no reason

大部分嘅交談都唔應該有原因 做唔到上面嘅嘢

why most of your interactions can't be like that.

所以我定咗十項基本規則 我會同你哋講解下

So I have 10 basic rules. I'm going to walk you through all of them,

but honestly, if you just choose one of them and master it,

但講真，只要熟練其中一項

你就已經可以傾得更加好

you'll already enjoy better conversations.

Number one: Don't multitask.

第一：唔好同時做多過一樣嘢

And I don't mean just set down your cell phone

我意思係唔止放低電話 平板、車匙或者手頭上嘅嘢

or your tablet or your car keys or whatever is in your hand.

我指嘅係，你嘅靈魂要喺度

I mean, be present.

Be in that moment.

要留心嗰陣時嘅嘢

Don't think about your argument you had with your boss.

唔好諗之前同上司嘅爭執

Don't think about what you're going to have for dinner.

唔好諗今晚食乜

If you want to get out of the conversation,

如果唔想同人傾偈，不如就唔傾好過

get out of the conversation,

唔好勉強撐落去，又心不在焉咁

but don't be half in it and half out of it.

Number two: Don't pontificate.

第二：唔好霸住嚟講

If you want to state your opinion

如果你只抒己見

without any opportunity for response or argument or pushback or growth,

又唔回應、拗、反駁或引伸

咁去寫網誌啦

write a blog.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Now, there's a really good reason why I don't allow pundits on my show:

我之所以唔邀請學者上節目

有一個好好嘅理由

Because they're really boring.

就係佢哋太無聊喇

If they're conservative, they're going to hate Obama and food stamps and abortion.

如果係保守派

佢哋一定憎奧巴馬、糧票同墮胎

If they're liberal, they're going to hate

如果係自由派

就一定憎大銀行、油公司同迪克切尼

big banks and oil corporations and Dick Cheney.

Totally predictable.

完全估計得到

And you don't want to be like that.

但你唔想傾偈變成咁樣

You need to enter every conversation assuming that you have something to learn.

每次傾偈，你都要當你會學到啲嘢

The famed therapist M. Scott Peck said

知名精神科醫生派克話

that true listening requires a setting aside of oneself.

真正嘅聆聽需要放下自己

And sometimes that means setting aside your personal opinion.

所以要放下己見

He said that sensing this acceptance,

佢話，說話者認同呢段說話嘅話

the speaker will become less and less vulnerable

內心就會愈嚟愈堅強

and more and more likely to open up the inner recesses

愈係會對聽者開放內心嘅深處

of his or her mind to the listener.

Again, assume that you have something to learn.

同樣地，假設你會從傾偈裏面學到嘢

Bill Nye: "Everyone you will ever meet knows something that you don't."

比爾奈話：你遇到嘅每一個人 都識一啲你唔識得嘅嘢

I put it this way:

對於呢番話，我會演譯為︰

Everybody is an expert in something.

每個人都係某方面嘅專家

Number three: Use open-ended questions.

第三：善用開放式問題

呢方面可以學學記者

In this case, take a cue from journalists.

以「何時、何地、何人 何物、為何、如何」開始發問

Start your questions with who, what, when, where, why or how.

If you put in a complicated question, you're going to get a simple answer out.

如果你問複雜嘅問題 你只會得到簡單嘅答案

If I ask you, "Were you terrified?"

如果我問你：你當時驚唔驚？

you're going to respond to the most powerful word in that sentence,

你會按句子最有力嘅字眼去答

即係「驚」呢個字

which is "terrified," and the answer is "Yes, I was" or "No, I wasn't."

所以答案會係「係」或「唔係」

－你嬲唔嬲？ －係，好嬲

"Were you angry?" "Yes, I was very angry."

Let them describe it. They're the ones that know.

由佢哋描述，佢哋先係體會嘅一方

Try asking them things like, "What was that like?"

嘗試問：當時係點㗎？有咩感覺？

"How did that feel?"

Because then they might have to stop for a moment and think about it,

因為佢哋或者會停低思考

and you're going to get a much more interesting response.

所以你就會有機會得到更有趣嘅答案

Number four: Go with the flow.

第四：順其自然

That means thoughts will come into your mind

意思係有一啲諗法突然間會有

and you need to let them go out of your mind.

但你需要忘記啲諗法

We've heard interviews often

因為我哋都有睇過一啲訪問

in which a guest is talking for several minutes

啲嘉賓講咗幾分鐘嘢

and then the host comes back in and asks a question

然之後主持問返問題

which seems like it comes out of nowhere, or it's already been answered.

但啲問題可能無關或者已經討論過

咁就反映咗主持頭先嗰兩分鐘無聽到

That means the host probably stopped listening two minutes ago

because he thought of this really clever question,

主持以為條問題好聰明，佢一定要問到

and he was just bound and determined to say that.

And we do the exact same thing.

但其實我哋同個主持都一樣

We're sitting there having a conversation with someone,

當我哋坐低同人傾偈時

我哋竟然會諗返嗰日 喺咖啡室撞到明星 Hugh Jackman

and then we remember that time that we met Hugh Jackman in a coffee shop.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And we stop listening.

於是我哋就無再聽

Stories and ideas are going to come to you.

事情同想法必然會喺你腦海閃過

You need to let them come and let them go.

但你要學識唔好分心諗咗去其他嘢度

Number five: If you don't know, say that you don't know.

第五：唔識就話唔識

Now, people on the radio, especially on NPR,

電台，尤其是公共廣播電台上嘅人

are much more aware that they're going on the record,

佢哋清楚知道自己係開梗咪

and so they're more careful about what they claim to be an expert in

所以佢哋好小心喺咩事情上 稱自己做專家

and what they claim to know for sure.

同埋好小心咁講佢哋肯定知道嘅嘢

Do that. Err on the side of caution.

你都應該咁，小心駛得萬年船

Talk should not be cheap.

而且一言千金

Number six: Don't equate your experience with theirs.

第六：唔好騎劫人哋嘅經歷

If they're talking about having lost a family member,

例如人哋講梗親人過身

don't start talking about the time you lost a family member.

你就唔好講你親戚去世個陣嘅嘢

If they're talking about the trouble they're having at work,

當人哋講梗工作窘境

就唔好反過嚟抱怨自己份工

don't tell them about how much you hate your job.

你同人哋嘅經歷唔同，從來都唔會一樣

It's not the same. It is never the same.

經歷係好個人嘅

All experiences are individual.

And, more importantly, it is not about you.

而且人哋嘅經歷唔屬於你

唔好喺人哋分享梗嗰陣 同人講自己有幾勁幾慘

You don't need to take that moment to prove how amazing you are

or how much you've suffered.

Somebody asked Stephen Hawking once what his IQ was, and he said,

有人問霍金佢智商幾高

佢話：「唔知。 自誇智商嘅都係傻瓜。」

"I have no idea. People who brag about their IQs are losers."

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

傾偈唔係攞嚟推廣自己

Conversations are not a promotional opportunity.

Number seven:

第七：唔好重複說話

Try not to repeat yourself.

It's condescending, and it's really boring,

咁樣畀人感覺高傲又乏味

and we tend to do it a lot.

但我哋偏偏成日都咁做

Especially in work conversations or in conversations with our kids,

尤其同同事、小朋友講嘢個陣

we have a point to make,

我哋為咗表明諗法，不斷講同一番說話

so we just keep rephrasing it over and over.

Don't do that.

唔好咁樣做

Number eight: Stay out of the weeds.

第八：唔需要講細節

Frankly, people don't care

講真，人哋根本唔在意

年份、名、日期等嘅細節

about the years, the names,

the dates, all those details

that you're struggling to come up with in your mind.

就算你就好努力去記都好

人哋都唔在意，佢哋關心嘅係你

They don't care. What they care about is you.

They care about what you're like,

想知你係點樣嘅人

同你有咩共同之處

what you have in common.

So forget the details. Leave them out.

忘記啲瑣碎細節啦

傾偈嗰陣唔好講細節

Number nine:

第九：

呢點雖然唔係壓軸 但係係最關鍵嘅一項

This is not the last one, but it is the most important one.

Listen.

聆聽

I cannot tell you how many really important people have said

我數唔清有幾多重要人物曾經講過

that listening is perhaps the most, the number one most important skill

聆聽係最重要嘅技能

仲係可以培養嘅技能

that you could develop.

Buddha said, and I'm paraphrasing,

佛陀話過，我喺度引述返︰

"If your mouth is open, you're not learning."

「開口時非學習時」

前美國總統卡爾文話： 無人會因為多聽而失業

And Calvin Coolidge said, "No man ever listened his way out of a job."

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Why do we not listen to each other?

點解我哋唔聆聽人哋？

Number one, we'd rather talk.

第一，我哋寧願講嘢

When I'm talking, I'm in control.

當我講梗嘢，我就控制個局

I don't have to hear anything I'm not interested in.

我唔洗聽冇興趣嘅嘢

I'm the center of attention.

我就係大家目光嘅焦點

I can bolster my own identity.

我可以藉著講嘢嚟強化自己身份

But there's another reason:

仲有一個原因：我哋會分心

We get distracted.

The average person talks at about 225 word per minute,

常人每分鐘講到大概 225 個字

but we can listen at up to 500 words per minute.

但每分鐘就聽到最多 500 字

So our minds are filling in those other 275 words.

於是我哋個腦喺人哋講嘢嗰陣 就用剩低 275 字諗其他嘢

And look, I know, it takes effort and energy

我知道要認真聽人哋講嘢 係要花費精神同心機

to actually pay attention to someone,

but if you can't do that, you're not in a conversation.

但如果無留心就唔係傾緊偈

You're just two people shouting out barely related sentences

因為你哋只係喺同一笪地方

對喊梗冇乜相關嘅嘢

in the same place.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

You have to listen to one another.

你要聆聽人哋

史蒂芬 · 柯維講得好好

Stephen Covey said it very beautifully.

He said, "Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand.

佢話：大多數人聆聽唔係因為想理解

We listen with the intent to reply."

而係想回應

One more rule, number 10, and it's this one: Be brief.

最後，第十：簡短

[A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enough to retain interest,

「好嘅交談就好似迷你裙咁，

短到可以引人入勝，

but long enough to cover the subject. -- My Sister]

但亦都長到覆蓋到重點。」 呢句係我家姐講嘅

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

All of this boils down to the same basic concept, and it is this one:

以上所有都可以濃縮成一個基本概念︰

Be interested in other people.

你要展示你係有興趣聆聽

You know, I grew up with a very famous grandfather,

我公公好出名，我嘅成長少唔去公公

and there was kind of a ritual in my home.

屋企有個習俗

People would come over to talk to my grandparents,

人哋會走嚟同我公公婆婆傾偈

and after they would leave, my mother would come over to us,

佢哋走咗之後，我阿媽走過嚟問我哋︰

and she'd say, "Do you know who that was?

「知唔知佢哋係邊個？

呢個係美國選美亞軍。

She was the runner-up to Miss America.

He was the mayor of Sacramento.

嗰個係沙加緬度市長。

She won a Pulitzer Prize. He's a Russian ballet dancer."

呢嗰個贏過普立茲獎。

而呢個係俄羅斯巷蕾舞者。」

And I kind of grew up assuming

所以我成長裏邊一直覺得

everyone has some hidden, amazing thing about them.

每人都隱藏住好犀利嘅特質

And honestly, I think it's what makes me a better host.

講真，咁樣至令我成為更優秀主持

I keep my mouth shut as often as I possibly can,

我盡量唔講嘢，用開放態度睇事情

I keep my mind open,

and I'm always prepared to be amazed,

同埋成日準備受驚喜嘅心

and I'm never disappointed.

而我係從未失望過

You do the same thing.

你跟住我做，出去同人傾偈，聆聽佢哋

Go out, talk to people,

listen to people,

and, most importantly, be prepared to be amazed.

最重要係要有被驚喜嘅準備

Thanks.

多謝

(Applause)

（掌聲）