Celeste Headlee: 10 ways to have a better conversation | TED

Prevoditelj: Djurdjica Ercegovac Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

All right, I want to see a show of hands:

U redu, želim da dignete ruke:

how many of you have unfriended someone on Facebook

koliko vas je nekome odbilo prijateljstvo na Facebooku

because they said something offensive about politics or religion,

jer je rekao nešto uvredljivo u vezi politike ili religije,

childcare, food?

brige o djeci, hrane?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And how many of you know at least one person that you avoid

A koliko vas zna bar jednu osobu koju izbjegavate

because you just don't want to talk to them?

samo zato jer ne želite s njom razgovarati?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

You know, it used to be that in order to have a polite conversation,

Znate, nekada je vrijedilo da za pristojan razgovor

samo trebamo slijediti savjet Henryja Higginsa u "My Fair Lady":

we just had to follow the advice of Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady":

Drži se vremena i svog zdravlja.

Stick to the weather and your health.

Ali danas, s klimatskom promjenom i pokretom protiv cijepljenja, te teme --

But these days, with climate change and anti-vaxxing, those subjects --

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

are not safe either.

isto tako nisu sigurne.

So this world that we live in,

Dakle, ovaj svijet u kojem živimo,

this world in which every conversation

ovaj svijet u kojem svaki razgovor

has the potential to devolve into an argument,

ima potencijal prerasti u svađu,

where our politicians can't speak to one another

gdje naši političari ne mogu razgovarati jedan s drugim

and where even the most trivial of issues

i gdje čak i najtrivijalnija pitanja

have someone fighting both passionately for it and against it, it's not normal.

imaju strasne pobornike ili protivnike, nije normalan.

Pew Research did a study of 10,000 American adults,

Pew Research je proveo istraživanje na 10.000 odraslih Amerikanaca

and they found that at this moment, we are more polarized,

i ustanovili su da smo u ovom času više polarizirani,

we are more divided,

više smo podijeljeni,

than we ever have been in history.

nego bilo kada u povijesti.

We're less likely to compromise,

Manje smo skloni kompromisu,

which means we're not listening to each other.

što znači da ne slušamo jedni druge.

And we make decisions about where to live,

I odlučujemo o tome gdje ćemo živjeti,

who to marry and even who our friends are going to be,

za koga se udati i čak tko će nam biti prijatelji,

based on what we already believe.

na temelju onoga u što već vjerujemo.

Again, that means we're not listening to each other.

Ponovo, to znači da ne slušamo jedni druge.

A conversation requires a balance between talking and listening,

Konverzacija zahtijeva ravnotežu između pričanja i slušanja,

and somewhere along the way, we lost that balance.

a mi smo, negdje usput, izgubili tu ravnotežu.

Now, part of that is due to technology.

Dio toga je posljedica tehnologije.

The smartphones that you all either have in your hands

Pametnih telefona koje svi imate ili u rukama

or close enough that you could grab them really quickly.

ili dovoljno blizu da ih možete brzo zgrabiti.

Prema Pew Research centru,

According to Pew Research,

about a third of American teenagers send more than a hundred texts a day.

otprilike trećina američkih tinejđera šalje preko stotinu poruka dnevno.

And many of them, almost most of them, are more likely to text their friends

A mnogi od njih, skoro većina njih, prijateljima će radije slati poruke

than they are to talk to them face to face.

nego s njima razgovarati licem u lice.

Ima taj odličan članak u časopisu The Atlantic.

There's this great piece in The Atlantic.

It was written by a high school teacher named Paul Barnwell.

Napisao ga je srednjoškolski nastavnik Paul Barnwell.

On je svojim đacima zadao komunikacijski zadatak.

And he gave his kids a communication project.

Želio ih je naučiti kako govoriti o određenoj temi bez upotrebe bilješki.

He wanted to teach them how to speak on a specific subject without using notes.

And he said this: "I came to realize..."

I rekao je ovo: "Shvatio sam ..."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

"I came to realize that conversational competence

"Shvatio sam da je sposobnost komuniciranja

might be the single most overlooked skill we fail to teach.

možda najviše zanemarena vještina koju smo propustili podučavati.

Kids spend hours each day engaging with ideas and each other through screens,

Djeca svaki dan provode sate baveći se idejama i jedno drugim putem ekrana,

but rarely do they have an opportunity

no rijetko imaju priliku

to hone their interpersonal communications skills.

brusiti svoje međuljudske komunikacijske vještine.

It might sound like a funny question, but we have to ask ourselves:

Možda ovo pitanje zvuči smiješno, ali moramo se upitati:

Is there any 21st-century skill

Postoji li ijedna vještina 21-og stoljeća

more important than being able to sustain coherent, confident conversation?"

važnija od sposobnosti vođenja suvislog, samosvjesnog razgovora?

Now, I make my living talking to people:

Ja zarađujem za život pričajući s ljudima:

Nobel Prize winners, truck drivers,

nobelovcima, vozačima kamiona,

billionaires, kindergarten teachers,

milijarderima, tetama iz vrtića,

heads of state, plumbers.

predsjednicima država, vodoinstalaterima.

I talk to people that I like. I talk to people that I don't like.

Pričam s ljudima koji mi se sviđaju. Pričam s ljudima koji mi se ne sviđaju.

I talk to some people that I disagree with deeply on a personal level.

Pričam s nekim ljudima s kojima se duboko ne slažem na osobnoj razini.

But I still have a great conversation with them.

Pa ipak vodim s njima odličnu konverzaciju.

So I'd like to spend the next 10 minutes or so teaching you how to talk

Zato bih željela da vas u sljedećih 10-ak minuta podučim kako pričati

and how to listen.

i kako slušati.

Many of you have already heard a lot of advice on this,

Mnogi od vas su već čuli mnogo savjeta o tome,

things like look the person in the eye,

stvari poput, gledaj osobu u oči,

think of interesting topics to discuss in advance,

unaprijed smisli zanimljive teme za diskusiju

look, nod and smile to show that you're paying attention,

gledaj, kimaj i smiješi se da pokažeš kako pažljivo pratiš,

repeat back what you just heard or summarize it.

ponovi ono što si upravo čuo ili to rezimiraj.

So I want you to forget all of that.

Dakle, hoću da sve to zaboravite.

It is crap.

To su besmislice.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

There is no reason to learn how to show you're paying attention

Nema razloga da učite kako pokazati da pažljivo pratite

if you are in fact paying attention.

ako zaista pažljivo pratite.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

Now, I actually use the exact same skills as a professional interviewer

Kao profesionalni voditelj intervjua ja zapravo koristim one iste vještine

that I do in regular life.

koje koristim u običnom životu.

So, I'm going to teach you how to interview people,

Dakle, naučit ću vas kako intervjuirati ljude,

and that's actually going to help you learn how to be better conversationalists.

a to će vam ustvari pomoći da postanete bolji sugovornici.

Learn to have a conversation

Da naučite voditi razgovor

without wasting your time, without getting bored,

ne rasipajući svoje vrijeme, ne dosađujući se,

and, please God, without offending anybody.

i, uz Božju pomoć, ne vrijeđajući nikoga.

We've all had really great conversations.

Mi smo svi vodili zaista sjajne razgovore.

Vodili smo ih već prije. Znamo kako to izgleda.

We've had them before. We know what it's like.

The kind of conversation where you walk away feeling engaged and inspired,

Ona vrsta konverzacije nakon koje se osjećate uključeni i inspirirani,

ili osjećate kao da ste ostvarili istinsku povezanost

or where you feel like you've made a real connection

or you've been perfectly understood.

ili da su vas savršeno razumjeli.

There is no reason

Nema razloga zašto

why most of your interactions can't be like that.

većina naših interakcija ne bi bila takva.

So I have 10 basic rules. I'm going to walk you through all of them,

Ja imam 10 osnovnih pravila. Sva ću vam ih objasniti,

but honestly, if you just choose one of them and master it,

no iskreno, ako izaberete samo jedno od njih i svladate ga,

you'll already enjoy better conversations.

već ćete uživati u boljoj konverzaciji.

Number one: Don't multitask.

Broj jedan: Ne radite više stvari odjednom.

And I don't mean just set down your cell phone

I tu ne mislim samo da odložite svoj mobitel

or your tablet or your car keys or whatever is in your hand.

ili svoj tablet ili ključeve od auta ili bilo što što imate u ruci.

I mean, be present.

Mislim, budite prisutni.

Be in that moment.

Budite u tom trenutku.

Don't think about your argument you had with your boss.

Nemojte misliti na svađu koju ste imali sa šefom.

Don't think about what you're going to have for dinner.

Nemojte misliti na to što ćete večerati.

If you want to get out of the conversation,

Ako želite prekinuti konverzaciju,

get out of the conversation,

prekinite ju,

but don't be half in it and half out of it.

ali nemojte biti napola u njoj, a napola izvan nje.

Number two: Don't pontificate.

Broj dva: Nemojte propovijedati.

If you want to state your opinion

Ako želite iznijeti svoje mišljenje

without any opportunity for response or argument or pushback or growth,

bez mogućnosti za odgovor ili diskusiju ili prigovor ili razvoj,

write a blog.

pišite blog.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Now, there's a really good reason why I don't allow pundits on my show:

Postoji zaista dobar razlog zašto ne puštam učene ljude na moj šou:

Because they're really boring.

Zato jer su stvarno dosadni.

If they're conservative, they're going to hate Obama and food stamps and abortion.

Ako su konzervativci, mrzit će Obamu i bonove za hranu i abortus.

If they're liberal, they're going to hate

Ako su liberali, mrzit će

velike banke i naftne korporacije i Dicka Cheneya.

big banks and oil corporations and Dick Cheney.

Totally predictable.

Potpuno predvidivo.

And you don't want to be like that.

A vi ne želite biti takvi.

You need to enter every conversation assuming that you have something to learn.

Trebali bi u svaki razgovor ulaziti s s pretpostavkom da ćete nešto naučiti.

The famed therapist M. Scott Peck said

Čuveni terapeut M. Scott Peck je rekao

that true listening requires a setting aside of oneself.

istinsko slušanje zahtijeva da sebe ostavimo po strani.

And sometimes that means setting aside your personal opinion.

A to ponekad znači ostaviti po strani svoje osobno mišljenje.

He said that sensing this acceptance,

On kaže da osjetivši to prihvaćanje

the speaker will become less and less vulnerable

govornik postaje sve manje ranjiv

and more and more likely to open up the inner recesses

i sve više voljan za otvaranje skrovitih mjesta svoga uma

of his or her mind to the listener.

onome koji sluša.

Again, assume that you have something to learn.

Ponovno, pretpostavite da ćete nešto naučiti.

Bill Nye: "Everyone you will ever meet knows something that you don't."

Bill Nye: "Svatko koga ćete ikada sresti zna nešto što vi ne znate."

I put it this way:

Ja to kažem ovako:

Everybody is an expert in something.

Svatko je stručnjak u nečemu.

Number three: Use open-ended questions.

Broj tri: Postavljajte otvorena pitanja.

In this case, take a cue from journalists.

U ovom slučaju, ugledajte se u novinare.

Start your questions with who, what, when, where, why or how.

Započnite svoja pitanja sa tko, što, kada, gdje, zašto ili kako.

If you put in a complicated question, you're going to get a simple answer out.

Ako postavite komplicirano pitanje, dobit ćete jednostavan odgovor.

If I ask you, "Were you terrified?"

Ako vas upitam, "Jeste li bili užasnuti?"

you're going to respond to the most powerful word in that sentence,

vi ćete odgovoriti na najjaču riječ u toj rečenici,

which is "terrified," and the answer is "Yes, I was" or "No, I wasn't."

koja je "užasnut" i odgovor je "Da, bio sam" ili "Ne, nisam bio."

"Were you angry?" "Yes, I was very angry."

"Jeste li bili ljuti?" "Da, bio sam jako ljut."

Let them describe it. They're the ones that know.

Pustite njih da to opišu. Oni su ti koji znaju.

Try asking them things like, "What was that like?"

Pokušajte ih pitati stvari kao, "Kako je to bilo?"

"How did that feel?"

"Kako ste se osjećali?"

Because then they might have to stop for a moment and think about it,

Zato jer će tada možda morati zastati na čas i razmisliti o tome,

and you're going to get a much more interesting response.

a vi ćete dobiti mnogo zanimljiviji odgovor.

Number four: Go with the flow.

Broj četiri: Prepustite se.

That means thoughts will come into your mind

To znači da će vam misli padati na um

and you need to let them go out of your mind.

i vi biste ih trebali pustiti da siđu s uma.

We've heard interviews often

Često smo čuli intervjue

in which a guest is talking for several minutes

u kojima gost govori nekoliko minuta

and then the host comes back in and asks a question

i onda domaćin upada i postavlja pitanje

which seems like it comes out of nowhere, or it's already been answered.

koje kao da dolazi niotkuda ili je već bilo odgovoreno.

That means the host probably stopped listening two minutes ago

To znači da je domaćin vjerojatno prestao slušati prije dvije minute

because he thought of this really clever question,

jer se sjetio tog stvarno pametnog pitanja,

and he was just bound and determined to say that.

i bio je baš uporan i odlučan da ga postavi.

And we do the exact same thing.

A mi radimo upravo istu stvar.

We're sitting there having a conversation with someone,

Sjedimo i pričamo s nekim,

a onda se sjetimo trenutka kad smo sreli Hugha Jackmana u kafiću.

and then we remember that time that we met Hugh Jackman in a coffee shop.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And we stop listening.

I prestajemo slušati.

Stories and ideas are going to come to you.

Priče i ideje će vam nadolaziti.

You need to let them come and let them go.

Vi ih morate pustiti da dođu i odu.

Number five: If you don't know, say that you don't know.

Broj pet: Ako ne znate, recite da ne znate.

Now, people on the radio, especially on NPR,

Dakle, ljudi na radiju, posebno na javnom radiju,

are much more aware that they're going on the record,

puno su svjesniji toga da da govore javno i službeno,

and so they're more careful about what they claim to be an expert in

i zato su oprezniji s tvrdnjama o svojoj stručnosti

and what they claim to know for sure.

i o tome što tvrde da pouzdano znaju.

Do that. Err on the side of caution.

Učinite tako. Oprez je majka mudrosti.

Talk should not be cheap.

Govor ne smije biti jeftin.

Number six: Don't equate your experience with theirs.

Broj šest: Nemojte izjednačavati svoje iskustvo s njihovim.

If they're talking about having lost a family member,

Ako govore o gubitku člana obitelji,

nemojte početi govoriti o vremenu kad ste vi izgubili člana obitelji.

don't start talking about the time you lost a family member.

If they're talking about the trouble they're having at work,

Ako govore o problemima koje imaju na poslu,

don't tell them about how much you hate your job.

nemojte im pričati o tome koliko vi mrzite svoj posao.

To nije isto. To nikada nije isto.

It's not the same. It is never the same.

All experiences are individual.

Sva iskustva su osobna.

And, more importantly, it is not about you.

I, što je još važnije, ne radi se o vama.

You don't need to take that moment to prove how amazing you are

Ne morate koristiti taj trenutak da dokažete koliko ste vi čudesni

or how much you've suffered.

ili koliko ste vi patili.

Netko je jednom upitao Stephena Hawkinga

Somebody asked Stephen Hawking once what his IQ was, and he said,

koliki mu je IQ, a on je rekao, "Nemam pojma.

"I have no idea. People who brag about their IQs are losers."

Ljudi koje se hvale svojim IQ-om su gubitnici."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Conversations are not a promotional opportunity.

Razgovorinisu prilike za promociju.

[ Konverzacija u 21. stoljeću Kako si Todo. Čitaj moj blog.]

Number seven:

Broj sedam:

Try not to repeat yourself.

Pokušajte ne ponavljati se.

It's condescending, and it's really boring,

To je pokroviteljski i zaista dosadno,

and we tend to do it a lot.

a mi smo skloni često to raditi.

Especially in work conversations or in conversations with our kids,

Osobito u razgovorima o poslu ili u razgovoru s djecom,

we have a point to make,

želimo nešto naglasiti,

so we just keep rephrasing it over and over.

pa stalno iznova govorimo istu stvar samo preformuliranu.

Don't do that.

Nemojte to raditi.

Number eight: Stay out of the weeds.

Broj osam: Klonite se detalja.

Frankly, people don't care

Iskreno, ljudi ne mare

about the years, the names,

za godine, imena,

the dates, all those details

datume, sve te detalje

that you're struggling to come up with in your mind.

kojih se svim silama pokušavate prisjetiti.

They don't care. What they care about is you.

Njima to nije važno. Ono što im je važno ste vi.

They care about what you're like,

Zanima ih kakvi ste,

what you have in common.

što vam je zajedničko.

So forget the details. Leave them out.

Stoga zaboravite detalje. Izostavite ih.

Number nine:

Broj devet:

This is not the last one, but it is the most important one.

Ovo nije zadnje, ali je najvažnije.

Listen.

Slušajte.

I cannot tell you how many really important people have said

Ne mogu vam reći koliko je stvarno važnih ljudi reklo

that listening is perhaps the most, the number one most important skill

da je slušanje možda najvažnija, vještina broj jedan

that you could develop.

koju biste mogli razviti.

Buddha said, and I'm paraphrasing,

Buddha je rekao, a ja prafraziram,

"If your mouth is open, you're not learning."

"Ako su ti usta otvorena, tada ne učiš."

And Calvin Coolidge said, "No man ever listened his way out of a job."

A Calvin Coolidge je rekao, "Nitko nije bio izbačen s posla zbog slušanja."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Why do we not listen to each other?

Zašto ne slušamo jedni druge?

Number one, we'd rather talk.

Broj jedan, više volimo govoriti.

When I'm talking, I'm in control.

Kada govorim, ja imam kontrolu.

I don't have to hear anything I'm not interested in.

Ne moram slušati ništa što me ne zanima.

I'm the center of attention.

Ja sam u središtu pažnje.

I can bolster my own identity.

Mogu ojačati vlastiti identitet.

But there's another reason:

No, postoji još jedan razlog:

We get distracted.

Gubimo pozornost.

The average person talks at about 225 word per minute,

Prosječna osoba govori oko 225 riječi u minuti,

but we can listen at up to 500 words per minute.

no mi možemo slušati do 500 riječi u minuti.

So our minds are filling in those other 275 words.

Tako naši umovi umeću onih drugih 275 riječi.

And look, I know, it takes effort and energy

I gledajte, ja znam da za to treba truda i snage

to actually pay attention to someone,

da se stvarno obraća pažnja na nekoga,

but if you can't do that, you're not in a conversation.

ali ako to ne možete, onda ne vodite konverzaciju.

You're just two people shouting out barely related sentences

Vi ste samo dvoje ljudi koji izvikuju jedva povezane rečenice

in the same place.

na istom mjestu.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

You have to listen to one another.

Morate slušati jedan drugoga.

Stephen Covey said it very beautifully.

Stephen Covey je to prekrasno rekao.

He said, "Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand.

Rekao je, "Većina nas ne sluša s namjerom da razumije.

We listen with the intent to reply."

Mi slušamo s namjerom da odgovorimo."

One more rule, number 10, and it's this one: Be brief.

Još jedno pravilo, broj 10, a to je ovo: Budite kratki.

[A good conversation is like a miniskirt; short enough to retain interest,

[Dobar razgovor je kao mini suknja; dovoljno kratka da zadrži interes,

but long enough to cover the subject. -- My Sister]

ali dovoljno duga da pokrije temu. -- Moja sestra]

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

All of this boils down to the same basic concept, and it is this one:

Sve ovo svodi se na isti osnovni koncept, a taj je:

Be interested in other people.

Zanimajte se za druge ljude.

You know, I grew up with a very famous grandfather,

Znate, ja sam odrasla uz vrlo slavnog djeda,

and there was kind of a ritual in my home.

i postojala neka vrsta rituala u mom domu.

People would come over to talk to my grandparents,

Ljudi bi navraćali da razgovaraju s mojim djedom i bakom,

and after they would leave, my mother would come over to us,

a nakon što bi otišli, moja majka bi nam prišla,

and she'd say, "Do you know who that was?

i rekla, "Znate li tko je to bio?

She was the runner-up to Miss America.

Ona je bila pratilja Miss Amerike.

He was the mayor of Sacramento.

On je bio gradonačelnik Sacramenta.

She won a Pulitzer Prize. He's a Russian ballet dancer."

Ona je dobila Pulitzerovu nagradu. On je ruski baletan."

And I kind of grew up assuming

I ja sam na neki način odrastala smatrajući

everyone has some hidden, amazing thing about them.

da svatko u sebi nosi neke skrivene, zapanjujuće stvari.

And honestly, I think it's what makes me a better host.

I iskreno, mislim da je to ono što me čini boljom voditeljicom.

I keep my mouth shut as often as I possibly can,

Ja držim zatvorena usta kada god mogu,

I keep my mind open,

držim otvoren um,

and I'm always prepared to be amazed,

i uvijek sam spremna da budem zadivljena,

and I'm never disappointed.

i nikada se nisam razočarala.

You do the same thing.

Učinite istu stvar.

Go out, talk to people,

Izađite, razgovarajte s ljudima,

listen to people,

slušajte ljude,

and, most importantly, be prepared to be amazed.

i, najvažnije, budite spremni biti zadivljeni.

Thanks.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)