The neurons that shaped civilization | VS Ramachandran

Prevodilac: Vladimir Jovic Lektor: Ana Zivanovic-Nenadovic

I'd like to talk to you today about the human brain,

Želeo bih danas da vam govorim o ljudskom mozgu -

which is what we do research on at the University of California.

to je ono što istražujemo na Univerzitetu u Kaliforniji.

Just think about this problem for a second.

Razmislite na trenutak o ovom problemu:

Here is a lump of flesh, about three pounds,

Ovde imamo komad mesa, težak otprlike 1,5 kg,

which you can hold in the palm of your hand.

koji možete držati na dlanu svoje ruke.

But it can contemplate the vastness of interstellar space.

Ali on može razmišljati o beskrajnosti međuzvezdanog prostora.

It can contemplate the meaning of infinity,

Može razmišljati o značenju beskonačnosti,

ask questions about the meaning of its own existence,

postavljati pitanja o smislu vlastitog postojanja,

about the nature of God.

o prirodi Boga.

And this is truly the most amazing thing in the world.

I ovo je zaista najneverovatnija stvar na svetu.

It's the greatest mystery confronting human beings:

To je najveća tajna sa kojom se ljudska bića susreću.

How does this all come about?

Kako se sve ovo događa?

Well, the brain, as you know, is made up of neurons.

Pa, mozak je, kao što znate, sastavljen od neurona.

We're looking at neurons here.

Ovde vidimo neurone.

There are 100 billion neurons in the adult human brain.

Mozak odraslog čoveka ima 100 milijardi neurona.

And each neuron makes something like 1,000 to 10,000 contacts

I svaki neuron stvara otprilike od 1,000 do 10,000 veza

with other neurons in the brain.

sa drugim neuronima u mozgu.

And based on this, people have calculated

Na osnovu ovog, ljudi su izračunali

that the number of permutations and combinations of brain activity

da broj permutacija i kombinacija moždane aktivnosti

exceeds the number of elementary particles in the universe.

premašuje broj elementarnih čestica u univerzumu.

So, how do you go about studying the brain?

Pa, kako uopšte krenuti sa ispitivanjem mozga?

One approach is to look at patients who had lesions

Jedan od pristupa jeste posmatranje pacijenata koji su imali povrede

in different part of the brain, and study changes in their behavior.

u različitim delovima mozga, i ispitivanje promena u njihovom ponašanju.

This is what I spoke about in the last TED.

O ovome sam govorio u poslednjem TED-u.

Today I'll talk about a different approach,

Danas ću govoriti o drugačijem pristupu

which is to put electrodes in different parts of the brain,

koji se sastoji u primeni elektroda na različite delove mozga,

and actually record the activity of individual nerve cells in the brain.

i beleženju aktivnosti pojedinačnih nervnih ćelija u mozgu.

Sort of eavesdrop on the activity of nerve cells in the brain.

Nešto kao "prisluškivanje" aktivnosti nervnih ćelija u mozgu.

Now, one recent discovery that has been made

Jedno od skorašnjih otkrića koje su napravili

by researchers in Italy, in Parma,

istraživači u Italiji, u Parmi,

by Giacomo Rizzolatti and his colleagues,

Đakomo Ricolati i njegove kolege,

is a group of neurons called mirror neurons,

jeste grupa neurona nazvana "ogledalni neuroni",

which are on the front of the brain in the frontal lobes.

koji se nalaze u prednjem delu mozga u frontalnom režnju.

Now, it turns out there are neurons

Ispostavlja se da postoje neuroni

which are called ordinary motor command neurons in the front of the brain,

koji se nazivaju obični neuroni za motorne komande, u prednjem delu mozga,

which have been known for over 50 years.

koji su poznati više od 50 godina.

These neurons will fire when a person performs a specific action.

Ovi neuroni se aktiviraju kada osoba izvede određenu radnju.

For example, if I do that, and reach and grab an apple,

Na primer, ako ja uradim ovo, i posegnem i zgrabim jabuku,

a motor command neuron in the front of my brain will fire.

motorni komandni neuron u prednjem delu mog mozga će se aktivirati.

If I reach out and pull an object, another neuron will fire,

Ako posegnem i privučem sebi predmet, aktiviraće se drugi neuron,

commanding me to pull that object.

nalažući mi da privučem sebi predmet.

These are called motor command neurons that have been known for a long time.

Ovo su tzv. motorni komandni neuroni koji su poznati već duže vreme.

But what Rizzolatti found was

Ali, ono što je Ricolati otkrio jeste

a subset of these neurons,

da će se podskup ovih neurona,

maybe about 20 percent of them, will also fire

možda otprilike njih 20 procenata, takođe aktivirati

when I'm looking at somebody else performing the same action.

kada gledam nekog drugog kako izvodi istu radnju.

So, here is a neuron that fires when I reach and grab something,

Dakle, imamo neuron koji se aktivira kada ja posegnem i zgrabim nešto

but it also fires when I watch Joe reaching and grabbing something.

ali se takođe aktivira kada posmatram Jovu dok poseže i grabi nešto.

And this is truly astonishing.

I ovo je zaista zadivljujuće.

Because it's as though this neuron is adopting

Jer izgleda kao da ovaj neuron usvaja

the other person's point of view.

tačku gledišta druge osobe.

It's almost as though it's performing a virtual reality simulation

To je skoro kao da u virtuelnoj stvarnosti izvodi simulaciju

of the other person's action.

radnje druge osobe.

Now, what is the significance of these mirror neurons?

Dakle, kakav je značaj ovih "ogledalnih" neurona?

For one thing they must be involved in things like imitation and emulation.

Jedno je sigurno, oni moraju biti uključeni u postupke poput imitiranja i "poprimanja".

Because to imitate a complex act

Jer da bi imitirao složen čin,

requires my brain to adopt the other person's point of view.

mom je mozgu potrebno da usvoji tačku gledišta druge osobe.

So, this is important for imitation and emulation.

Dakle, ovo je važno za imitaciju i "poprimanje".

Well, why is that important?

Pa, zašto je to važno?

Well, let's take a look at the next slide.

Pogledajmo sledeći slajd.

So, how do you do imitation? Why is imitation important?

Dakle, kako se obavlja imitacija? Zašto je imitacija važna?

Mirror neurons and imitation, emulation.

Ogledalni neuroni, imitacija, poprimanje.

Now, let's look at culture, the phenomenon of human culture.

Pogledajmo sada kulturu, tj. fenomen ljudske kulture.

If you go back in time about [75,000] to 100,000 years ago,

Ako se vratimo unazad kroz vreme, otprilike pre oko 75 000 do 100 000 godina,

let's look at human evolution, it turns out

i pogledamo evoluciju čoveka, ispostavlja se

that something very important happened around 75,000 years ago.

da se nešto veoma važno desilo pre otprilike 75 000 godina.

And that is, there is a sudden emergence and rapid spread

A to je, desila se iznenadna pojava i brzo širenje

of a number of skills that are unique to human beings

brojnih veština, jedinstvenih samo ljudskim bićima,

like tool use,

kao upotreba oruđa,

the use of fire, the use of shelters, and, of course, language,

upotreba vatre, skloništa i, naravno, jezika,

and the ability to read somebody else's mind

kao i sposobnost čitanja tuđeg uma

and interpret that person's behavior.

i tumačenja ponašanja te osobe.

All of that happened relatively quickly.

Sve se ovo desilo relativno brzo.

Even though the human brain had achieved its present size

Iako je svoju današnju veličinu ljudski mozak dostigao

almost three or four hundred thousand years ago,

otprilike pre tri ili četiri stotine hiljade godina,

100,000 years ago all of this happened very, very quickly.

pre oko 100 000 godina, sve se ovo desilo veoma veoma brzo.

And I claim that what happened was

I tvrdim da ono što se desilo jeste

the sudden emergence of a sophisticated mirror neuron system,

iznenadna pojava sofisticiranog sistema "ogledalnih" neurona,

which allowed you to emulate and imitate other people's actions.

koji vam je omogućila da poprimite i imitirate radnje drugih osoba.

So that when there was a sudden accidental discovery

Tako da kada se dogodilo iznenadno slučajno otkriće

by one member of the group, say the use of fire,

od strane jednog člana grupe, recimo upotreba vatre,

or a particular type of tool, instead of dying out,

ili određenog tipa oruđa, umesto da nestane

this spread rapidly, horizontally across the population,

ono se brzo širilo, horizontalnim putem kroz populaciju

or was transmitted vertically, down the generations.

ili se prenosilo vertikalno, kroz generacije.

So, this made evolution suddenly Lamarckian,

Tako da je ovo načinilo evoluciju lamarkističkom

instead of Darwinian.

umesto darvinovskom.

Darwinian evolution is slow; it takes hundreds of thousands of years.

Darvinovska evolucija je spora; treba joj stotine hiljada godina.

A polar bear, to evolve a coat,

Da bi polarnom medvedu evoluirao ogrtač,

will take thousands of generations, maybe 100,000 years.

potrebne su na hiljade naraštaja, možda čak i 100,000 godina.

A human being, a child, can just watch its parent

Ljudsko biće, dete, može samo posmatrajući svog roditelja

kill another polar bear,

dok ubija nekog polarnog medveda

and skin it and put the skin on its body, fur on the body,

i skida mu kožu da stavi krzno na svoje telo,

and learn it in one step. What the polar bear

i da to nauči u jednom koraku. Što za šta je polarnom medvedu

took 100,000 years to learn,

potrebno 100,000 godina da nauči,

it can learn in five minutes, maybe 10 minutes.

dete može da nauči za pet, možda 10 minuta.

And then once it's learned this it spreads

A jednom kada se nauči, širi se

in geometric proportion across a population.

u geometrijskim razmerama kroz populaciju.

This is the basis. The imitation of complex skills

Ovo je osnova. Imitacija složenih veština

is what we call culture and is the basis of civilization.

je ono što zovemo kulturom i to je osnova civilizacije.

Now there is another kind of mirror neuron,

Postoji još jedna vrsta "ogledalnog" neurona,

which is involved in something quite different.

koja je uključena u nešto sasvim drugačije.

And that is, there are mirror neurons,

A to je, postoje "ogledalni" neuroni,

just as there are mirror neurons for action, there are mirror neurons for touch.

kao što postoje ogledalni neuroni za radnje, postoje ogledalni neuroni za dodir.

In other words, if somebody touches me,

Drugim rečima, ako me neko dodirne,

my hand, neuron in the somatosensory cortex

moju ruku, neuroni u somatosenzornom korteksu

in the sensory region of the brain fires.

u senzornom regionu mozga se aktiviraju.

But the same neuron, in some cases, will fire

Ali isti neuroni će se u pojedinim slučajevima aktivirati

when I simply watch another person being touched.

kada je jednostavno gledam da je druga osoba dodirnuta.

So, it's empathizing the other person being touched.

Dakle, kao da saoseća drugu osobu koja biva dodirnuta.

So, most of them will fire when I'm touched

Tako će se većina njih aktivirati kada sam dodirnut

in different locations. Different neurons for different locations.

na različitim mestima. Postoje različiti neuroni za različita mesta.

But a subset of them will fire even when I watch somebody else

Ali podskup njih će se aktivirati čak i kad gledam nekog drugog

being touched in the same location.

koji biva dodirnut na istim mestima.

So, here again you have neurons

Dakle, sada imate neurone

which are enrolled in empathy.

koji imaju svoju ulogu u empatiji.

Now, the question then arises: If I simply watch another person being touched,

Pitanje se sada postavlja: ako ja prosto gledam drugu osobu koja biva dodirnuta,

why do I not get confused and literally feel that touch sensation

kako ne postanem zbunjen i bukvalno osetim taj oset dodira

merely by watching somebody being touched?

samo gledanjem drugog koji biva dodirnut?

I mean, I empathize with that person but I don't literally feel the touch.

Hoću reći, ja saosećam sa osobom ali ne osećam bukvalno dodir.

Well, that's because you've got receptors in your skin,

Pa, to je stoga što imate receptore u vašoj koži,

touch and pain receptors, going back into your brain

receptore za dodir i bol, koji se vraćaju u vaš mozak

and saying "Don't worry, you're not being touched.

i govore, "Ne brini, nisi zaista dodirivan.

So, empathize, by all means, with the other person,

Tako da saosećaj slobodno sa drugom osobom,

but do not actually experience the touch,

ali nemoj stvarno da iskusiš dodir

otherwise you'll get confused and muddled."

jer u suprotnom ćeš biti zbunjen."

Okay, so there is a feedback signal

U redu, postoji dakle povratni signal

that vetoes the signal of the mirror neuron

koji nadjačava signal ogledalnih neurona,

preventing you from consciously experiencing that touch.

sprečavajući vas da svesno iskusite taj dodir.

But if you remove the arm, you simply anesthetize my arm,

Međutim, ako uklonite ruku ili prosto anestezirate moju ruku

so you put an injection into my arm,

injekcijom anestetika

anesthetize the brachial plexus, so the arm is numb,

anestezirate brahijalni pleksus, tako da se moja ruka umrtvi

and there is no sensations coming in,

i tako da joj ne pristižu nikakvi oseti,

if I now watch you being touched,

ako sada ja vas gledam dok vas dodiruju,

I literally feel it in my hand.

bukvalno ću osetiti to u mojoj ruci.

In other words, you have dissolved the barrier

Drugim rečima, uklonili ste barijeru

between you and other human beings.

između vas i drugih ljudskih bića.

So, I call them Gandhi neurons, or empathy neurons.

Tako da ih ja zovem Gandi-neuroni, ili saosećajni neuroni.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And this is not in some abstract metaphorical sense.

I ovo se sve ne dešava u nekom apstraktnom, metaforičkom smislu,

All that's separating you from him,

sve ono što odvaja vas od njega,

from the other person, is your skin.

od druge osobe, jeste vaša koža.

Remove the skin, you experience that person's touch in your mind.

Uklonite kožu, i doživećete dodir te osobe u svom umu.

You've dissolved the barrier between you and other human beings.

Uklonili ste barijeru između vas i drugih ljudskih bića.

And this, of course, is the basis of much of Eastern philosophy,

Ovo je, naravno, u osnovi većine istočnih filozofija,

and that is there is no real independent self,

to da ne postoji stvarno nezavisno jastvo,

aloof from other human beings, inspecting the world,

odvojeno od drugih ljudskih bića, koja posmatraju svet,

inspecting other people.

koje posmatraju ljude.

You are, in fact, connected not just via Facebook and Internet,

Vi ste, u stvari, povezani ne samo putem fejsbuka i interneta;

you're actually quite literally connected by your neurons.

vi ste zapravo sasvim bukvalno povezani putem vaših neurona.

And there is whole chains of neurons around this room, talking to each other.

U ovoj sobi su čitavi lanci neurona koji razgovaraju međusobno.

And there is no real distinctiveness

I ne postoji stvarna razlika

of your consciousness from somebody else's consciousness.

vaše svesti i svesti nekog drugog.

And this is not mumbo-jumbo philosophy.

Ovo sve nije neka mambo-džambo filozofija.

It emerges from our understanding of basic neuroscience.

Ovo dolazi iz nešeg razumevanja osnovne neurološke nauke.

So, you have a patient with a phantom limb. If the arm has been removed

Tako da, ako ste pacijent sa fantomskim udom, ako vam je ruka amputirana

and you have a phantom, and you watch somebody else

i imate fantomsku ruku, i gledate nekog drugog

being touched, you feel it in your phantom.

kako biva dodirnut, osetićete to u vašoj fantomskoj ruci.

Now the astonishing thing is,

Izvanredno je to da

if you have pain in your phantom limb, you squeeze the other person's hand,

ako osećate bol u vašem fantomskom udu, pritisnete ruku druge osobe,

massage the other person's hand,

izmasirate ruku druge osobe,

that relieves the pain in your phantom hand,

i to će opustiti bol u vašem fantomskom udu,

almost as though the neuron

kao da su neuroni,

were obtaining relief from merely

primili olakšanje samo

watching somebody else being massaged.

gledajući nekog drugog kako biva masiran.

So, here you have my last slide.

Ovo je moj poslednji slajd.

For the longest time people have regarded science

Dugo vremena su ljudi smatrali nauku

and humanities as being distinct.

i humanističke discipline kao razdvojene.

C.P. Snow spoke of the two cultures:

C.P. Snou je govorio o dve kulture:

science on the one hand, humanities on the other;

nauci sa jedne strane, humanističkim disciplinama sa druge;

never the twain shall meet.

nikad se one ne mogu susresti.

So, I'm saying the mirror neuron system underlies the interface

Ja tvrdim da sistem ogledalnih neurona čini sučelje

allowing you to rethink about issues like consciousness,

i omogućava nam da ponovo promislimo pitanja poput svesti,

representation of self,

reprezentacije jastva,

what separates you from other human beings,

ono što odvaja nas od drugih ljudskih bića,

what allows you to empathize with other human beings,

ono što nam omogućava da saosećamo sa drugim ljudskim bićima,

and also even things like the emergence of culture and civilization,

a takođe i svari kao što su pojava kulture i civilizacije,

which is unique to human beings. Thank you.

koji su svojstveni ljudskim bićima. Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)