Can you really tell if a kid is lying? | Kang Lee

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

Hi.

Zdravo.

Let me ask the audience a question:

Postaviću publici pitanje:

Did you ever lie as a child?

da li ste ikad slagali kad ste bili dete?

If you did, could you please raise your hand?

Ako jeste, možete li, molim vas, da podignete ruke?

Wow! This is the most honest group of people I've ever met.

Opa! Ovo je najiskrenija grupa ljudi koju sam ikad upoznao.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So for the last 20 years,

Dakle, proteklih 20 godina

I've been studying how children learn to tell lies.

sam izučavao kako deca uče da govore laži.

And today, I'm going to share with you

A danas ću da podelim sa vama

some of the discoveries we have made.

neka od otkrića do kojih smo došli.

But to begin, I'm going to tell you a story from Mr. Richard Messina,

Ali za početak ću da vam ispričam priču g. Ričarda Mesine,

who is my friend and an elementary school principal.

koji je moj prijatelj i direktor osnovne škole.

He got a phone call one day.

Jednog dana je primio telefonski poziv.

The caller says,

Sagovornik je rekao:

"Mr. Messina, my son Johnny will not come to school today

"G. Mesina, moj sin Džoni neće doći u školu danas

because he's sick."

jer je bolestan."

Mr. Messina asks,

G. Mesina je pitao:

"Who am I speaking to, please?"

"Izvinite, s kim razgovaram?"

And the caller says,

A sagovornik je rekao:

"I am my father."

"Ja sam moj otac."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So this story --

Dakle, ova priča -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

sums up very nicely three common beliefs we have

savršeno spaja tri uobičajena verovanja koja imamo

about children and lying.

o deci i laganju.

One, children only come to tell lies

Pod jedan: deca tek počinju da lažu

after entering elementary school.

nakon polaska u osnovnu školu.

Two, children are poor liars.

Dva: deca su loši lažovi.

We adults can easily detect their lies.

Mi odrasli možemo lako da prepoznamo njihove laži.

And three, if children lie at a very young age,

I tri: ako deca lažu u veoma ranom uzrastu,

there must be some character flaws with them,

mora da imaju neku karakternu manu

and they are going to become pathological liars for life.

i da će ostati patološki lažovi do kraja života.

Well, it turns out

Pa, ispostavlja se

all of the three beliefs are wrong.

da su sva tri verovanja pogrešna.

We have been playing guessing games

Igrali smo igre pogađanja

with children all over the world.

s decom širom sveta.

Here is an example.

Evo jednog primera.

So in this game, we asked children to guess the numbers on the cards.

Dakle, u ovoj igri, tražili smo od dece da pogode brojeve na kartama.

And we tell them if they win the game,

A mi im kažemo da ako pobede u igri,

they are going to get a big prize.

dobiće veliku nagradu.

But in the middle of the game,

Ali u sred igre,

we make an excuse and leave the room.

izvinimo se i napustimo prostoriju.

And before we leave the room,

A pre nego što napustimo prostoriju,

we tell them not to peek at the cards.

kažemo im da ne vire u karte.

Of course,

Naravno,

we have hidden cameras in the room

imamo skrivene kamere u prostoriji

to watch their every move.

koje prate svaki njihov pokret.

Because the desire to win the game is so strong,

Jer je žudnja da pobede u igri tako snažna,

more than 90 percent of children will peek

više od 90 procenata dece će virnuti,

as soon as we leave the room.

čim napustimo prostoriju.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

The crucial question is:

Ključno pitanje je:

When we return and ask the children

kad se vratimo i upitamo decu

whether or not they have peeked,

da li su virila,

will the children who peeked confess

da li će deca koja su virila priznati

or lie about their transgression?

ili će lagati o svom prestupu?

We found that regardless of gender, country, religion,

Otkrili smo da bez obzira na rod, državu, religiju,

at two years of age,

u dvogodišnjem uzrastu

30 percent lie,

30 procenata njih slaže,

70 percent tell the truth about their transgression.

70 procenata kaže istinu o svom prestupu.

At three years of age,

U trogodišnjem uzrastu,

50 percent lie and 50 percent tell the truth.

50 procenata slaže, a 50 procenata kaže istinu.

At four years of age,

U četvorogodišnjem uzrastu,

more than 80 percent lie.

više od 80 procenata slaže.

And after four years of age,

A nakon četvrte godine

most children lie.

većina dece laže.

So as you can see,

Pa, kao što možete da vidite,

lying is really a typical part of development.

laganje je karakterističan deo razvoja.

And some children begin to tell lies

A neka deca počinju da lažu

as young as two years of age.

još u uzrastu od dve godine.

So now, let's take a closer look at the younger children.

Sad, pogledajmo pažljivije decu mlađeg uzrasta.

Why do some but not all young children lie?

Zašto neka, ali ne i sva deca lažu?

In cooking, you need good ingredients

U kulinarstvu su vam potrebni dobri sastojci

to cook good food.

da biste spremili dobru hranu.

And good lying requires two key ingredients.

Za svako dobro laganje su potrebna dva sastojka.

The first key ingredient is theory of mind,

Prvi ključni sastojak je teorija uma,

or the mind-reading ability.

iliti sposobnost čitanja misli.

Mind reading is the ability to know

Čitanje misli je sposonost spoznaje

that different people have different knowledge about the situation

da različiti ljudi imaju različito znanje o situaciji

and the ability to differentiate between what I know

i sposobnost razlikovanja između onoga što ja znam

and what you know.

i što vi znate.

Mind reading is important for lying

Čitanje misli je važno za laganje

because the basis of lying is that I know

jer je osnova laganja to da ja znam

you don't know

da vi ne znate

what I know.

ono što ja znam.

Therefore, I can lie to you.

Stoga mogu da vam lažem.

The second key ingredient for good lying is self-control.

Drugi ključni sastojak za dobro laganje je samokontrola.

It is the ability to control your speech, your facial expression

To je sposobnost kontrolisanja govora, vašeg izraza lica

and your body language,

i vašeg govora tela,

so that you can tell a convincing lie.

kako biste mogli da kažete uverljivu laž.

And we found that those young children

A otkrili smo da ona dečica

who have more advanced mind-reading and self-control abilities

koja su naprednija u sposobnostima čitanja misli i samokontrole

tell lies earlier

ranije počinju da lažu

and are more sophisticated liars.

i prefinjeniji su lažovi.

As it turns out, these two abilities are also essential for all of us

Kako se ispostavilo, te dve sposobnosti su suštinske za sve nas

to function well in our society.

da bismo dobro funkcionisali u društvu.

In fact, deficits in mind-reading and self-control abilities

Zapravo, nedostatak sposobnosti čitanja misli i samokontrole

are associated with serious developmental problems,

su povezani sa ozbiljnim razvojnim problemima,

such as ADHD and autism.

poput hiperaktivnog poremećaja i autizma.

So if you discover your two-year-old is telling his or her first lie,

Pa, ako otkrijete da vaš dvogodišnjak izgovara svoju prvu laž,

instead of being alarmed,

umesto da budete uznemireni,

you should celebrate --

trebalo bi da slavite -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

because it signals that your child has arrived at a new milestone

jer je to znak da je vaše dete stiglo do nove prekretnice

of typical development.

u tipičnom razvoju.

Now, are children poor liars?

Sad, da li su deca loši lažovi?

Do you think you can easily detect their lies?

Mislite li da lako možete da prepoznate njihove laži?

Would you like to give it a try?

Da li biste se okušali u tome?

Yes? OK.

Da? U redu.

So I'm going to show you two videos.

Pokazaću vam dva snimka.

In the videos,

Na snimcima

the children are going to respond to a researcher's question,

deca če da odgovaraju na pitanje istraživača:

"Did you peek?"

"Da li ste virili?"

So try to tell me

Pa, pokušajte da mi kažete

which child is lying

koje dete laže,

and which child is telling the truth.

a koje dete govori istinu.

Here's child number one.

Evo prvog deteta.

Are you ready?

Jeste li spremni?

(Video) Adult: Did you peek? Child: No.

(Snimak) Odrasla osoba: Da li si virio? Dete: Ne.

Kang Lee: And this is child number two.

Kang Li: A ovo je drugo dete.

(Video) Adult: Did you peek? Child: No.

(Snimak) Odrasla osoba: Da li si virila? Dete: Ne.

KL: OK, if you think child number one is lying,

KL: U redu, ako mislite da prvo dete laže,

please raise your hand.

molim vas da podignete ruke.

And if you think child number two is lying, please raise your hand.

A ako mislite da drugo dete laže, molim vas da podignete ruke.

OK, so as a matter of fact,

U redu, zapravo,

child number one is telling the truth,

prvo dete govori istinu,

child number two is lying.

drugo dete laže.

Looks like many of you are terrible detectors of children's lies.

Izgleda da su mnogi od vas užasni u prepoznavanju dečjih laži.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Now, we have played similar kinds of games

Sad, igrali smo slične igre

with many, many adults from all walks of life.

s mnogim, mnogim odraslim ljudima raznih zanimanja.

And we show them many videos.

Pokazivali smo im mnogo snimaka.

In half of the videos, the children lied.

Na polovini snimaka su deca lagala.

In the other half of the videos, the children told the truth.

Na drugoj polovini snimaka deca su govorila istinu.

And let's find out how these adults performed.

Hajde da vidimo kakav je učinak ovih odraslih.

Because there are as many liars as truth tellers,

Zato što ima jednak broj lažova i onih koji govore istinu,

if you guess randomly,

ako nasumično pogađate,

there's a 50 percent chance you're going to get it right.

imate 50 procenata šanse da ćete pogoditi.

So if your accuracy is around 50 percent,

Pa, ako su vaši pogoci oko 50 procenata,

it means you are a terrible detector of children's lies.

to znači da ste užasni u prepoznavanju dečjih laži.

So let's start with undergrads and law school students,

Pa, počnimo sa redovnim studentima i studentima prava,

who typically have limited experience with children.

koji obično imaju ograničeno iskustvo s decom.

No, they cannot detect children's lies.

Ne, ne znaju da prepoznaju dečje laži.

Their performance is around chance.

Njihov učinak je na nivou slučajnog pogađanja.

Now how about social workers and child-protection lawyers,

Sad, šta je sa socijalnim radnicima i advokatima za zaštitu dece,

who work with children on a daily basis?

koji svakodnevno rade s decom?

Can they detect children's lies?

Mogu li oni prepoznati dečje laži?

No, they cannot.

Ne, ne mogu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

What about judges,

Šta je sa sudijama,

customs officers

carinicima

and police officers,

i policajcima,

who deal with liars on a daily basis?

koji se svakodnevno bave lažovima?

Can they detect children's lies?

Mogu li oni da prepoznaju dečje laži?

No, they cannot.

Ne, ne mogu.

What about parents?

Šta je s roditeljima?

Can parents detect other children's lies?

Mogu li roditelji da prepoznaju laži kod tuđe dece?

No, they cannot.

Ne, ne mogu.

What about, can parents detect their own children's lies?

Šta je sa tim da li roditelji mogu da prepoznaju laži sopstvene dece?

No, they cannot.

Ne, ne mogu.

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Smeh) (Aplauz)

So now you may ask

Dakle, sad se možda pitate

why children's lies are so difficult to detect.

zašto je tako teško prepoznati dečje laži.

Let me illustrate this with my own son, Nathan.

Dozvolite mi da vam to ilustrujem na primeru mog sina, Nejtana.

This is his facial expression

Ovo je njegov izraz lica

when he lies.

kad laže.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So when children lie,

Pa, kad deca lažu

their facial expression is typically neutral.

njihovi izrazi lica su obično neutralni.

However, behind this neutral expression,

Međutim, iza ovog neutralnog izraza,

the child is actually experiencing a lot of emotions,

dete zapravo proživljava mnoge emocije,

such as fear, guilt, shame

poput straha, krivice, srama,

and maybe a little bit of liar's delight.

a možda i blagog užitka u laganju.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Unfortunately, such emotions are either fleeting or hidden.

Nažalost, slične emocije su prolazne ili skrivene.

Therefore, it's mostly invisible to us.

Stoga su nam uglavnom nevidljive.

So in the last five years,

Te smo u proteklih pet godina

we have been trying to figure out a way to reveal these hidden emotions.

pokušavali da otkrijemo način da razotkrijemo ove skrivene emocije.

Then we made a discovery.

Onda smo došli do otkrića.

We know that underneath our facial skin,

Znamo da ispod kože lica

there's a rich network of blood vessels.

imamo bogatu mrežu krvnih sudova.

When we experience different emotions,

Kada proživljavamo različite emocije,

our facial blood flow changes subtly.

tok krvi u našem licu se blago menja.

And these changes are regulated by the autonomic system

A ove promene reguliše autonomni sistem

that is beyond our conscious control.

koji je mimo naše svesne kontrole.

By looking at facial blood flow changes,

Posmatranjem promena u proticanju krvi na licu,

we can reveal people's hidden emotions.

možemo da razotkrijemo skrivene emocije kod ljudi.

Unfortunately, such emotion-related facial blood flow changes

Nažalost, slične promene toka krvi na licu uzrokovane emocijama

are too subtle to detect by our naked eye.

su suviše suptilne da bismo ih zapazili golim okom.

So to help us reveal people's facial emotions,

Pa, kao pomoć u razotkrivanju skrivenih emocija kod ljudi,

we have developed a new imaging technology

razvili smo novu tehnologiju prikazivanja,

we call "transdermal optical imaging."

nazivamo je: "transdermalno optičko prikazivanje".

To do so, we use a regular video camera to record people

Da bismo to postigli, koristimo obične video kamere da bismo snimali ljude

when they experience various hidden emotions.

dok doživljavaju različite skrivene emocije.

And then, using our image processing technology,

A potom, koristeći našu tehnologiju za obradu slika,

we can extract transdermal images of facial blood flow changes.

možemo da izdvojimo transdermalne slike promena u toku krvi na licu.

By looking at transdermal video images,

Posmatranjem transdermalnih video snimaka,

now we can easily see

sada možemo lako da vidimo

facial blood flow changes associated with the various hidden emotions.

promene u toku krvi na licu povezane s različitim skrivenim emocijama.

And using this technology,

A koristeći ovu tehnologiju,

we can now reveal the hidden emotions associated with lying,

sad možemo da otkrijemo skrivene emocije koje su u vezi sa laganjem,

and therefore detect people's lies.

i samim tim prepoznamo kad ljudi lažu.

We can do so noninvasively,

Možemo to da postignemo neinvazivno,

remotely, inexpensively,

s udaljenosti, jeftino,

with an accuracy at about 85 percent,

s preciznošću od oko 85 procenata,

which is far better than chance level.

što je daleko bolje od nivoa nagađanja.

And in addition, we discovered a Pinocchio effect.

A uz sve to, otkrili smo efekat Pinokija.

No, not this Pinocchio effect.

Ne, ne ovaj efekat Pinokija.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

This is the real Pinocchio effect.

Ovo je stvarni efekat Pinokija.

When people lie,

Kad ljudi lažu,

the facial blood flow on the cheeks decreases,

tok krvi na licu se smanjuje u predelu obraza,

and the facial blood flow on the nose increases.

a tok krvi na licu u predelu nosa se pojačava.

Of course, lying is not the only situation

Naravno, laganje nije jedina situacija

that will evoke our hidden emotions.

koja će da izazove vaše skrivene emocije.

So then we asked ourselves,

Pa smo se zapitali,

in addition to detecting lies,

pored prepoznavanja laži,

how can our technology be used?

kako naša tehnologija može da se koristi?

One application is in education.

Jedna njena primena je u obrazovanju.

For example, using this technology, we can help this mathematics teacher

Na primer, upotrebom ove tehnologije možemo pomoći ovom nastavniku matematike

to identify the student in his classroom

da prepozna đaka u učionici

who may experience high anxiety about the topic he's teaching

koji možda doživljava izrazit nespokoj zbog teme koja se predaje,

so that he can help him.

te može da mu pomogne.

And also we can use this in health care.

Takođe ovo možemo da koristimo u zdravstvu.

For example, every day I Skype my parents,

Na primer, svakodnevno se čujem s roditeljima preko Skajpa,

who live thousands of miles away.

koji žive hiljadama kilometara daleko.

And using this technology,

A upotrebom ove tehnologije,

I can not only find out what's going on in their lives

ne samo da mogu da otkrijem šta se dešava u njihovim životima,

but also simultaneously monitor their heart rate, their stress level,

već i da istovremeno pratim njihov rad srca, nivo stresa,

their mood and whether or not they are experiencing pain.

raspoloženje i da li doživljavaju bol.

And perhaps in the future,

A možda nekad u budućnosti

their risks for heart attack or hypertension.

rizik od srčanog udara ili visokog krvnog pritiska kod njih.

And you may ask:

I možda se pitate:

Can we use this also to reveal politicians' emotions?

možemo li ovo da koristimo i da bismo razotkrili emocije političara?

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

For example, during a debate.

Na primer, tokom debate.

Well, the answer is yes.

Pa, odgovor je da.

Using TV footage,

Koristeći televizijski materijal,

we could detect the politicians' heart rate,

možemo da otkrijemo broj otkucaja srca kod političara,

mood and stress,

raspoloženje i stres,

and perhaps in the future, whether or not they are lying to us.

a možda nekad u budućnosti i da li nam lažu.

We can also use this in marketing research,

Takođe, ovo možemo da koristimo u marketinškim istraživanjima,

for example, to find out

na primer, da otkrijemo

whether or not people like certain consumer products.

da li se ljudima sviđa neki proizvod.

We can even use it in dating.

Možemo ga čak koristiti prilikom izlazaka.

So for example,

Pa, na primer,

if your date is smiling at you,

ako vam se pratilja smeši,

this technology can help you to determine

ova tehnologija vam može pomoći da odredite

whether she actually likes you

da li joj se zapravo sviđate

or she is just trying to be nice to you.

ili samo pokušava da bude ljubazna.

And in this case,

A u ovom slučaju,

she is just trying to be nice to you.

samo pokušava da bude ljubazna.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So transdermal optical imaging technology

Dakle, transdermalna tehnologija optičkog prikazivanja

is at a very early stage of development.

je na veoma ranom stadijumu razvoja.

Many new applications will come about that we don't know today.

Mnoge nove primene će da iskrsnu, za koje danas ne znamo.

However, one thing I know for sure

Međutim, jedno znam sigurno,

is that lying will never be the same again.

a to je da laganje više nikad neće biti isto.

Thank you very much.

Mnogo vam hvala.

Xiè xie.

Xiè xie.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)