You can grow new brain cells. Here's how | Sandrine Thuret | TED

Prevodilac: Ivana Krivokuća Lektor: Tijana Mihajlović

Can we, as adults, grow new nerve cells?

Da li mi, kao odrasle osobe, možemo da proizvodimo nove nervne ćelije?

Još postoji zabuna u vezi sa tim pitanjem,

There's still some confusion about that question,

as this is a fairly new field of research.

budući da je ovo prilično nova oblast istraživanja.

For example, I was talking to one of my colleagues, Robert,

Na primer, razgovarala sam sa jednim svojim kolegom, Robertom,

who is an oncologist,

koji je onkolog,

and he was telling me,

a on mi je rekao:

"Sandrine, this is puzzling.

„Sandrin, ovo je zbunjujuće.

Some of my patients that have been told they are cured of their cancer

Neki od mojih pacijenata kojima je rečeno da su izlečeni od raka

still develop symptoms of depression."

i dalje razvijaju simptome depresije“,

And I responded to him,

a ja sam mu odgovorila:

"Well, from my point of view that makes sense.

„Pa, sa mog stanovišta, to ima smisla.

The drug you give to your patients that stops the cancer cells multiplying

Lek koji daješ pacijentima koji sprečava da se ćelije raka umnožavaju,

also stops the newborn neurons being generated in their brain."

takođe sprečava da se novi neuroni stvaraju u njihovom mozgu.“

And then Robert looked at me like I was crazy and said,

A zatim me je Robert pogledao kao da sam luda i rekao:

"But Sandrine, these are adult patients --

„Sandrin, to su odrasli pacijenti.

adults do not grow new nerve cells."

Odrasli ne proizvode nove nervne ćelije.“

And much to his surprise, I said, "Well actually, we do."

Na njegovo iznenađenje, rekla sam: „Pa, zapravo, proizvodimo.“

And this is a phenomenon that we call neurogenesis.

To je fenomen koji zovemo neurogeneza.

[Neurogenesis]

[Neurogeneza]

Now Robert is not a neuroscientist,

E, sad, Robert nije neuronaučnik,

and when he went to medical school he was not taught what we know now --

a kada je išao u medicinsku školu, nisu ga učili onome što sada znamo -

that the adult brain can generate new nerve cells.

da mozak odraslih može da proizvede nove nervne ćelije.

So Robert, you know, being the good doctor that he is,

Tako je Robert, znate, budući da je dobar doktor,

wanted to come to my lab

želeo da dođe u moju laboratoriju

to understand the topic a little bit better.

da bi malo bolje razumeo ovu temu.

And I took him for a tour

Povela sam ga u obilazak

of one of the most exciting parts of the brain

jednog od najuzbudljivijih delova mozga

when it comes to neurogenesis --

kada se radi o neurogenezi,

and this is the hippocampus.

a to je hipokampus.

So this is this gray structure in the center of the brain.

Dakle, to je ta siva struktura u središtu mozga.

And what we've known already for very long,

Ono što već dugo znamo

is that this is important for learning, memory, mood and emotion.

je da je to važno za učenje, pamćenje, raspoloženje i emocije.

However, what we have learned more recently

Međutim, nedavno smo saznali

is that this is one of the unique structures of the adult brain

da je ovo jedna od jedinstvenih struktura mozga odraslih osoba

where new neurons can be generated.

u kojoj se mogu stvarati novi neuroni.

And if we slice through the hippocampus

Ako presečemo kroz hipokampus

and zoom in,

i uveličamo,

what you actually see here in blue

ono što vidite ovde, označeno plavom bojom,

is a newborn neuron in an adult mouse brain.

je novonastali neuron u mozgu odraslog miša.

So when it comes to the human brain --

Kada se radi o ljudskom mozgu -

my colleague Jonas Frisén from the Karolinska Institutet,

moj kolega Jonas Frizen sa Instituta Karolinska

has estimated that we produce 700 new neurons per day

procenio je da proizvodimo 700 novih neurona dnevno

u hipokampusu.

in the hippocampus.

You might think this is not much,

Možda mislite da to nije mnogo

compared to the billions of neurons we have.

u poređenju sa milijardama neurona koje imamo.

But by the time we turn 50,

Međutim, dok napunimo 50 godina,

we will have all exchanged the neurons we were born with in that structure

biće nam zamenjeni svi neuroni sa kojima smo rođeni u toj strukturi

with adult-born neurons.

neuronima proizvedenim u odraslom dobu.

So why are these new neurons important and what are their functions?

Pa, zašto su ti novi neuroni važni i koje su njihove funkcije?

First, we know that they're important for learning and memory.

Prvo, znamo da su važni za učenje i pamćenje.

And in the lab we have shown

U laboratoriji smo pokazali da,

that if we block the ability of the adult brain

ako blokiramo sposobnost mozga odrasle osobe

to produce new neurons in the hippocampus,

da proizvodi nove neurone u hipokampusu,

then we block certain memory abilities.

tada blokiramo izvesne sposobnosti pamćenja.

And this is especially new and true for spatial recognition --

To je naročito novo i istinito za prostorno prepoznavanje -

so like, how you navigate your way in the city.

recimo, kako se usmeravate dok idete po gradu.

We are still learning a lot,

I dalje mnogo toga saznajemo,

and neurons are not only important for memory capacity,

a neuroni nisu samo važni za kapacitet,

but also for the quality of the memory.

već i za kvalitet pamćenja.

And they will have been helpful to add time to our memory

Biće od koristi da bi se našem sećanju pridodalo vreme

and they will help differentiate very similar memories, like:

i pomoći će u razlikovanju veoma sličnih sećanja, na primer:

how do you find your bike

kako da pronađete svoj bicikl

that you park at the station every day in the same area,

koji parkirate na stanici svakoga dana u istom području,

but in a slightly different position?

ali u malčice drugačijem položaju?

And more interesting to my colleague Robert

Mom kolegi Robertu je još zanimljivije

is the research we have been doing on neurogenesis and depression.

istraživanje koje smo sproveli u vezi sa neurogenezom i depresijom.

Na modelu depresije kod životinja

So in an animal model of depression,

we have seen that we have a lower level of neurogenesis.

videli smo da imamo niži nivo neurogeneze.

And if we give antidepressants,

Ako im damo antidepresive,

then we increase the production of these newborn neurons,

tada povećavamo proizvodnju novih neurona

and we decrease the symptoms of depression,

i umanjujemo simptome depresije,

establishing a clear link between neurogenesis and depression.

uspostavljajući jasnu vezu između neurogeneze i depresije.

But moreover, if you just block neurogenesis,

Štaviše, ako samo blokirate neurogenezu,

then you block the efficacy of the antidepressant.

tada blokirate efikasnost antidepresiva.

So by then, Robert had understood

Robert je dotad shvatio

that very likely his patients were suffering from depression

da je verovatno da su njegovi pacijenti patili od depresije

even after being cured of their cancer,

čak i nakon što su izlečeni od raka,

because the cancer drug had stopped newborn neurons from being generated.

jer je lek protiv raka zaustavio stvaranje novih neurona,

And it will take time to generate new neurons

a potrebno je vreme da bi se proizveli novi neuroni

that reach normal functions.

koji ostvaruju normalne funkcije.

So, collectively, now we think we have enough evidence

Dakle, sada kolektivno smatramo da imamo dovoljno dokaza

to say that neurogenesis is a target of choice

da bismo rekli da je neurogeneza ciljana meta

if we want to improve memory formation or mood,

ukoliko želimo da poboljšamo pamćenje ili raspoloženje,

or even prevent the decline associated with aging,

ili čak i da sprečimo propadanje vezano za starost,

or associated with stress.

ili vezano za stres.

So the next question is:

Naredno pitanje je:

can we control neurogenesis?

da li možemo kontrolisati neurogenezu?

The answer is yes.

Odgovor je da.

And we are now going to do a little quiz.

Sada ćemo da sprovedemo mali kviz.

I'm going to give you a set of behaviors and activities,

Daću vam skup ponašanja i aktivnosti,

and you tell me if you think they will increase neurogenesis

a vi mi recite da li mislite da će pojačati neurogenezu

or if they will decrease neurogenesis.

ili će je umanjiti.

Are we ready?

Da li smo spremni?

OK, let's go.

Okej, krećemo.

So what about learning?

Šta mislite o učenju?

Increasing?

Povećava?

Yes.

Da.

Learning will increase the production of these new neurons.

Učenje će uvećati proizvodnju novih neurona.

How about stress?

A stres?

Yes, stress will decrease the production of new neurons in the hippocampus.

Da, stres će umanjiti proizvodnju novih neurona u hipokampusu.

How about sleep deprivation?

Šta je sa nedostatkom sna?

Indeed, it will decrease neurogenesis.

Svakako, umanjiće neurogenezu.

How about sex?

A seks?

Oh, wow!

O, opa!

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Yes, you are right, it will increase the production of new neurons.

Da, u pravu ste, povećaće proizvodnju novih neurona.

However, it's all about balance here.

Međutim, sve je u ravnoteži.

We don't want to fall in a situation --

Ne bismo da zapadnemo u situaciju -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

about too much sex leading to sleep deprivation.

da previše seksa dovede do nedostatka sna.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

How about getting older?

Šta je sa starenjem?

So the neurogenesis rate will decrease as we get older,

Dakle, neurogeneza opada kako starimo,

but it is still occurring.

ali se i dalje odvija.

And then finally, how about running?

Na kraju, šta mislite o trčanju?

I will let you judge that one by yourself.

Pustiću vas da o tome prosudite sami.

So this is one of the first studies

Ovo je jedno od prvih istraživanja

that was carried out by one of my mentors, Rusty Gage from the Salk Institute,

koje je sproveo jedan od mojih mentora, Rasti Gejdž sa Instituta Solk,

showing that the environment can have an impact

pokazavši da okruženje može imati uticaj

on the production of new neurons.

na proizvodnju novih neurona.

And here you see a section of the hippocampus of a mouse

Ovde vidite deo hipokampusa kod miša

that had no running wheel in its cage.

koji nije imao točak za trčanje u svom kavezu.

And the little black dots you see are actually newborn neurons-to-be.

Crne tačkice koje vidite su zapravo budući novi neuroni,

And now, you see a section of the hippocampus of a mouse

a sada vidite deo hipokampusa kod miša

that had a running wheel in its cage.

koji je imao točak za trčanje u svom kavezu.

So you see the massive increase

Vidite ogroman porast

of the black dots representing the new neurons-to-be.

broja crnih tačkica koje predstavljaju buduće nove neurone.

So activity impacts neurogenesis, but that's not all.

Dakle, aktivnost utiče na neurogenezu, ali to nije sve.

What you eat will have an effect

Ono što jedete imaće uticaj

on the production of new neurons in the hippocampus.

na proizvodnju novih neurona u hipokampusu.

So here we have a sample of diet --

Ovde imamo primer režima ishrane,

of nutrients that have been shown to have efficacy.

hranljivih materija za koje je pokazano da su delotvorne.

And I'm just going to point a few out to you:

Istaći ću vam samo nekoliko.

Calorie restriction of 20 to 30 percent will increase neurogenesis.

Ograničenje unosa kalorija od 20 do 30 odsto povećaće neurogenezu.

Sporadično uzdržavanje od jela, pravljenje razmaka između obroka,

Intermittent fasting -- spacing the time between your meals --

will increase neurogenesis.

povećaće neurogenezu.

Intake of flavonoids,

Unos flavonoida,

which are contained in dark chocolate or blueberries,

kojih ima u crnoj čokoladi i borovnicama,

will increase neurogenesis.

povećaće neurogenezu.

Omega-3 fatty acids,

Omega-3 masne kiseline,

present in fatty fish, like salmon,

prisutne u masnoj ribi kao što je losos,

will increase the production of these new neurons.

povećaće proizvodnju novih neurona.

Conversely, a diet rich in high saturated fat

Nasuprot tome, režim ishrane bogat visokozasićenim mastima

will have a negative impact on neurogenesis.

imaće negativan uticaj na neurogenezu.

Ethanol -- intake of alcohol -- will decrease neurogenesis.

Etanol, unos alkohola, će smanjiti neurogenezu.

However, not everything is lost;

Ipak, nije sve izgubljeno.

resveratrol, which is contained in red wine,

Resveratrol, koga ima u crnom vinu,

has been shown to promote the survival of these new neurons.

podstiče opstanak novih neurona, kako se pokazalo.

So next time you are at a dinner party,

Dakle, sledeći put kada budete večerali na proslavi,

you might want to reach for this possibly "neurogenesis-neutral" drink.

možda ćete hteti da posegnete za ovim pićem

koje može biti „neutralno po neurogenezu“.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And then finally, let me point out the last one --

Konačno, dozvolite da ukažem na poslednju stvar, pomalo čudnu.

a quirky one.

So Japanese groups are fascinated with food textures,

Grupe Japanaca su fascinirane teksturom hrane

and they have shown that actually soft diet impairs neurogenesis,

i pokazali su da mekana ishrana zapravo narušava neurogenezu,

as opposed to food that requires mastication -- chewing -- or crunchy food.

za razliku od hrane koja zahteva mastikaciju, žvakanje, ili hrskave hrane.

So all of this data,

Dakle, svi ovi podaci,

where we need to look at the cellular level,

gde moramo da sagledavamo na nivou ćelije,

has been generated using animal models.

izvedeni su korišćenjem životinjskih modela.

But this diet has also been given to human participants,

Međutim, ova hrana je takođe data i ljudima učesnicima

and what we could see is that the diet modulates memory and mood

i mogli smo videti da ishrana menja pamćenje i raspoloženje

in the same direction as it modulates neurogenesis,

u istom pravcu u kome menja neurogenezu.

such as: calorie restriction will improve memory capacity,

Na primer, ograničavanje unosa kalorija će poboljšati kapacitet memorije,

whereas a high-fat diet will exacerbate symptoms of depression --

dok će ishrana bogata mastima pogoršati simptome depresije,

as opposed to omega-3 fatty acids, which increase neurogenesis,

nasuprot omega-3 masnim kiselinama, koje povećavaju neurogenezu

and also help to decrease the symptoms of depression.

i takođe pomažu u smanjenju simptoma depresije.

So we think that the effect of diet

Dakle, mislimo da je uticaj ishrane

on mental health, on memory and mood,

na mentalno zdravlje, pamćenje i raspoloženje

is actually mediated by the production of the new neurons in the hippocampus.

indirektno povezan sa proizvodnjom novih neurona u hipokampusu.

And it's not only what you eat,

Ne radi se samo o tome šta jedete,

but it's also the texture of the food, when you eat it

već i o teksturi hrane, o tome kada jedete

and how much of it you eat.

i koliko jedete.

On our side -- neuroscientists interested in neurogenesis --

Na našoj strani, strani neuronaučnika zainteresovanih za neurogenezu,

we need to understand better the function of these new neurons,

moramo da bolje razumemo funkcije tih novih neurona

and how we can control their survival and their production.

i kako možemo kontrolisati njihov opstanak i njihovu proizvodnju.

We also need to find a way to protect the neurogenesis of Robert's patients.

Takođe, moramo da nađemo način

da zaštitimo neurogenezu Robertovih pacijenata.

And on your side --

Što se tiče vaše strane,

I leave you in charge of your neurogenesis.

ostavljam da budete zaduženi za svoju neurogenezu.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Margaret Heffernan: Fantastic research, Sandrine.

Margaret Hefernan: Fantastično istraživanje, Sandrin.

Now, I told you you changed my life --

E, sad, rekla sam ti da si mi promenila život -

I now eat a lot of blueberries.

sada jedem mnogo borovnica.

Sandrine Thuret: Very good.

Sandrin Ture: Odlično.

MH: I'm really interested in the running thing.

MH: Baš sam zainteresovana za to trčanje.

Do I have to run?

Da li moram da trčim,

Or is it really just about aerobic exercise,

Ili se zapravo radi samo o aerobnim vežbama,

getting oxygen to the brain?

dopremanju kiseonika u mozak?

Could it be any kind of vigorous exercise?

Da li to može da bude bilo kakvo energično vežbanje?

ST: So for the moment,

ST: Za sada,

we can't really say if it's just the running itself,

ne možemo baš reći da li je to do samog trčanja,

but we think that anything that indeed will increase the production --

ali smatramo da bi bilo šta što zaista povećava proizvodnju,

or moving the blood flow to the brain,

ili pokretanje protoka krvi ka mozgu,

should be beneficial.

trebalo da bude korisno.

MH: So I don't have to get a running wheel in my office?

MH: Znači, ne moram da nabavim točak za trčanje za kancelariju?

ST: No, you don't!

ST: Ne, ne moraš!

MH: Oh, what a relief! That's wonderful.

MH: O, kakvo olakšanje! To je sjajno.

Sandrine Thuret, thank you so much.

Sandrin Ture, mnogo ti hvala.

ST: Thank you, Margaret.

ST: Hvala tebi, Margaret.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)