Moral behavior in animals | Frans de Waal

Translator: Erika Vojtkova Reviewer: Roman Studenic

I was born in Den Bosch,

Narodil som sa v Den Bosch,

where the painter Hieronymus Bosch named himself after.

meste, po ktorom sa pomenoval maliar Hieronymus Bosch.

And I've always been very fond of this painter

A tak som mal vždy rád tohto maliara,

ktorý žil a pracoval v 15. storočí.

who lived and worked in the 15th century.

And what is interesting about him in relation to morality

Zaujímavé na ňom vo vzťahu k morálke je to,

že žil v čase, keď vplyv cirkvi oslaboval,

is that he lived at a time where religion's influence was waning,

a tak sa asi zamýšľal nad tým,

and he was sort of wondering, I think,

čo by sa stalo so spoločnosťou,

what would happen with society if there was no religion

ak by neexistovalo náboženstvo alebo ak by ho bolo menej.

or if there was less religion.

And so he painted this famous painting, "The Garden of Earthly Delights,"

Namaľoval tento slávny obraz, "Záhrada pozemských rozkoší,"

ktorý niektorí interpretovali

which some have interpreted as being humanity before the Fall,

ako ľudstvo pred prvým hriechom

or being humanity without any Fall at all.

alebo ako ľudstvo bez prvého hriechu vôbec.

A to nás privádza k otázke,

And so it makes you wonder,

what would happen if we hadn't tasted the fruit of knowledge, so to speak,

čo by sa stalo, ak by sme neboli ochutnali ovocie zo stromu poznania,

a akú by sme mali morálku?

and what kind of morality would we have.

Omnoho neskôr som ako študent

Much later, as a student, I went to a very different garden,

navštívil celkom inú záhradu,

a zoological garden in Arnhem where we keep chimpanzees.

zoologickú záhradu v Arnheme,

kde máme šimpanzy.

This is me at an early age with a baby chimpanzee.

Toto som ja za mlada, ako držím mláďa šimpanza.

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

A tam som zistil,

And I discovered there

that the chimpanzees are very power-hungry and wrote a book about it.

že šimpanzy veľmi prahnú po moci a napísal som o tom knihu.

V tom čase sa veľa výskumov zvierat sústredilo

And at that time the focus in a lot of animal research

was on aggression and competition.

na agresivitu a súperenie.

Vytvoril som si takú predstavu o celej zvieracej ríši,

I painted a whole picture of the animal kingdom

vrátane ľudí,

and humanity included, was that deep down we are competitors, we are aggressive,

že hlboko vo vnútri sme všetci súperi,

sme agresívni,

we are all out for our own profit, basically.

všetkým nám v podstate ide len o vlastný prospech.

This is the launch of my book.

Toto je uvedenie mojej knihy.

I'm not sure how well the chimpanzees read it,

Nie som si istý, ako veľmi knihu šimpanzy čítali,

ale rozhodne sa zdalo, že ich zaujala.

but they surely seemed interested in the book.

(Laughter)

Now in the process of doing all this work

V priebehu

výskumu moci, dominancie

on power and dominance and aggression and so on,

agresivity a tak ďalej,

I discovered that chimpanzees reconcile after fights.

som zistil, že šimpanzy sa po bojoch uzmierujú.

A tu vidíte dvoch samcov, ktorí bojovali.

And so what you see here is two males who have had a fight.

They ended up in a tree, and one of them holds out a hand to the other.

Potom sa ocitli na strome a jeden z nich naťahuje ruku k druhému.

A asi sekundu po tom, čo som urobil túto fotku, prišli k sebe,

And about a second after I took the picture,

they came together in the fork of the tree

pobozkali sa a objali.

and kissed and embraced each other.

Toto je veľmi zaujímavé,

And this is very interesting

pretože v tej dobe bolo všetko o súperení a agresivite,

because at the time, everything was about competition and aggression,

a tak to nedávalo žiaden zmysel.

so it wouldn't make any sense.

Jediné na čom záleží je, či vyhráte alebo prehráte.

The only thing that matters is that you win or you lose.

Ale prečo by ste sa po boji uzmierovali?

But why reconcile after a fight? That doesn't make any sense.

To nedáva žiaden zmysel.

This is the way bonobos do it. Bonobos do everything with sex.

Šimpanzy bonobo to riešia takto. Bonobo robia všetko sexom.

And so they also reconcile with sex.

A tak sa aj uzmierujú sexom.

But the principle is exactly the same.

Ale princíp je presne ten istý.

The principle is that you have a valuable relationship

Princíp je ten,

že máte cenný vzťah,

that is damaged by conflict, so you need to do something about it.

ktorý je konfliktom poškodený,

takže s tým musíte niečo urobiť.

So my whole picture of the animal kingdom, and including humans also,

Takže celá moja predstava o zvieracej ríši,

a to vrátane ľudí,

sa v tej dobe začala meniť.

started to change at that time.

Máme takú predstavu --

So we have this image in political science, economics, the humanities,

v politológii, ekonómii, humanitných vedách,

vlastne aj vo filozofii --

the philosophy for that matter, that man is a wolf to man.

že človek je človeku vlkom.

A že hlboko vo vnútri je naša povaha v skutočnosti nevraživá.

And so deep down, our nature is actually nasty.

Myslím, že táto predstava je veľmi nespravodlivá voči vlkovi.

I think it's a very unfair image for the wolf.

Vlk je, napokon,

The wolf is, after all, a very cooperative animal.

veľmi kooperatívne zviera.

And that's why many of you have a dog at home,

Preto mnohí z vás majú doma psa,

which has all these characteristics also.

ktorý má tiež všetky tieto vlastnosti.

A je to naozaj nespravodlivé voči ľudstvu,

And it's really unfair to humanity,

because humanity is actually much more cooperative and empathic

pretože ľudia sú v skutočnosti omnoho kooperatívnejší a empatickejší

than given credit for.

než sa im pripisuje.

So I started getting interested in those issues

Takže som sa začal o tieto veci zaujímať

and studying that in other animals.

a skúmať ich u ďalších zvierat.

Toto sú piliere morálky.

So these are the pillars of morality.

If you ask anyone, "What is morality based on?"

Ak sa niekoho spýtate, "Na čom je založená morálka?"

these are the two factors that always come out.

toto sú dve veci, ktoré sa tam vždy objavia.

One is reciprocity,

Jedna je vzájomnosť

and associated with it is a sense of justice and a sense of fairness.

a s ňou je spojený zmysel pre spravodlivosť a zmysel pre čestnosť.

A tou druhou je empatia a súcit.

And the other one is empathy and compassion.

Ľudská morálka je viac ako toto,

And human morality is more than this, but if you would remove these two pillars,

ale ak by ste odobrali tieto dva piliere,

there would be not much remaining, I think.

myslím, že by toho veľa nezostalo.

So they're absolutely essential.

A preto sú absolútne nevyhnutné.

So let me give you a few examples here.

Dám vám pár príkladov.

This is a very old video from the Yerkes Primate Center,

Toto je veľmi staré video z Yerkes Primate Center,

kde trénujú šimpanzy spolupracovať.

where they trained chimpanzees to cooperate.

Už pred 100 sto rokmi

So this is already about a hundred years ago

that we were doing experiments on cooperation.

sme robili experimenty so spoluprácou.

What you have here is two young chimpanzees who have a box,

Tu máte dvoch mladých šimpanzov a debničku.

Pričom debnička je príliš ťažká na to, aby si ju pritiahol jeden šimpanz.

and the box is too heavy for one chimp to pull in.

A pravdaže, na debničke je jedlo.

And of course, there's food on the box.

Inak by sa tak veľmi nesnažili.

Otherwise they wouldn't be pulling so hard.

Prisúvajú si debnu.

And so they're bringing in the box.

A vidíte, že sú zosynchronizovaní.

And you can see that they're synchronized.

Vidíte, že spolupracujú, ťahajú debnu v rovnakú chvíľu.

You can see that they work together, they pull at the same moment.

To je už veľký pokrok oproti iným zvieratám,

It's already a big advance over many other animals

ktoré by toho neboli schopné.

who wouldn't be able to do that.

Now you're going to get a more interesting picture,

A teraz uvidíte niečo zaujímavejšie,

pretože teraz je jeden zo šimpanzov nakŕmený.

because now one of the two chimps has been fed.

So one of the two is not really interested in the task anymore.

Takže jeden z nich už o úlohu

nemá taký záujem.

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

[- and sometimes appears to convey its wishes and meanings by gestures.]

Teraz sledujte, čo sa stane na konci.

Now look at what happens at the very end of this.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

He takes basically everything.

Vezme si v podstate všetko.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

There are two interesting parts about this.

Na tom sú dve zaujímavé veci.

One is that the chimp on the right

Jedna z nich je, že šimpanz napravo

has a full understanding he needs the partner --

plne chápe, že potrebuje partnera -

so a full understanding of the need for cooperation.

takže plné chápanie potreby spolupráce.

Druhá je, že partner je ochotný pracovať,

The second one is that the partner is willing to work

even though he's not interested in the food.

hoci nemá záujem o jedlo.

Why would that be?

Prečo tomu tak je? Nuž, pravdepodobne to má niečo spoločné so vzájomnosťou.

Well, that probably has to do with reciprocity.

Dokonca je množstvo dôkazov o tom, že primáty a iné zvieratá

There's actually a lot of evidence in primates and other animals

oplácajú láskavosti.

that they return favors.

Takže on si nechá láskavosť oplatiť

He will get a return favor at some point in the future.

niekedy v budúcnosti.

And so that's how this all operates.

A takto to všetko funguje.

Rovnaké úlohy robíme so slonmi.

We do the same task with elephants.

No pracovať so slonmi je veľmi nebezpečné.

Now, it's very dangerous to work with elephants.

Ďalší problém so slonmi

Another problem with elephants is that you cannot make an apparatus

je ten, že nemôžete vyrobiť zariadenie,

that is too heavy for a single elephant.

ktoré by bolo pre jedného slona príliš ťažké.

Now you can probably make it,

Teda, pravdepodobne ho môžete vyrobiť,

but it's going to be a pretty clumsy apparatus, I think.

ale myslím, že to bude dosť chatrné zariadenie.

A tak čo sme spravili v tom prípade -

And so what we did in that case --

we do these studies in Thailand for Josh Plotnik --

tieto štúdie robíme v Thajsku pre Josha Plotnika -

is we have an apparatus around which there is a rope, a single rope.

máme zariadenie okolo ktorého je lano, jedno lano.

A ak zatiahnete za jeden koniec lana,

And if you pull on this side of the rope, the rope disappears on the other side.

lano na druhej strane zmizne.

Takže je potrebné, aby ho dva slony zdvihli presne v tú istú chvíľu a ťahali.

So two elephants need to pick it up at exactly the same time, and pull.

Inak sa nič nestane

Otherwise nothing is going to happen and the rope disappears.

a lano zmizne.

The first tape you're going to see

A na prvej páske, ktorú uvidíte,

is two elephants who are released together arrive at the apparatus.

sú dva slony, ktoré sú vypustené spolu

a prídu k zariadeniu.

The apparatus is on the left, with food on it.

Zariadenie je naľavo a je na ňom jedlo.

Takže sú spolu vypustené, spolu k nemu prídu,

And so they come together, they arrive together,

spolu zdvihnú lano a spolu ťahajú.

they pick it up together, and they pull together.

Vlastne je to pre nich celkom jednoduché.

So it's actually fairly simple for them.

Tu sú.

There they are.

A takto si to pritiahnu.

So that's how they bring it in.

Ale teraz to trochu sťažíme.

But now we're going to make it more difficult.

Pretože účelom tohto experimentu

Because the purpose of this experiment

je zistiť, ako dobre rozumejú spolupráci.

is to see how well they understand cooperation.

Rozumejú jej tak dobre ako napríklad šimpanzy?

Do they understand that as well as the chimps, for example?

A tak v druhom kroku

What we do in the next step is we release one elephant before the other

vypustíme jedného slona skôr ako druhého

and that elephant needs to be smart enough

a ten slon musí byť dosť múdry na to,

to stay there and wait and not pull at the rope --

aby tam stál a čakal a neťahal za lano -

pretože ak potiahne za lano, ono zmizne a celý test skončil.

because if he pulls at the rope, it disappears and the whole test is over.

No ten slon urobí niečo proti predpisom,

Now this elephant does something illegal that we did not teach it.

čo sme ho nenaučili.

But it shows the understanding he has,

Ale svedčí to o chápaní, ktoré má,

pretože svoju veľkú nohu položí na lano,

because he puts his big foot on the rope,

stands on the rope and waits there for the other,

stojí na lane a čaká na druhého

a potom ten druhý za neho urobí celú prácu.

and then the other is going to do all the work for him.

So it's what we call freeloading.

Takže tomu hovoríme priživovanie sa.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Ale ukazuje to inteligenciu slonov.

But it shows the intelligence that the elephants have.

Vyvinuli niekoľko alternatívnych techník,

They developed several of these alternative techniques

that we did not approve of, necessarily.

ktoré sme celkom neschvaľovali.

(Laughter)

So the other elephant is now coming ...

Takže teraz prichádza druhý slon

a pritiahne si to.

and is going to pull it in.

Teraz si všimnite toho druhého. Nezabudne sa najesť, pravdaže.

Now look at the other; it doesn't forget to eat, of course.

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

This was the cooperation and reciprocity part.

Toto bola spolupráca, časť o vzájomnosti.

Teraz niečo k empatii.

Now something on empathy.

Empathy is my main topic at the moment, of research.

Empatia je teraz mojou hlavnou témou výskumu.

And empathy has two qualities:

A empatia má v podstate dve vlastnosti.

One is the understanding part of it.

Jedna je pochopenie. Toto je bežná definícia:

This is just a regular definition:

schopnosť pochopiť a zdieľať pocity druhého.

the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

A druhá časť emocionálna.

And the emotional part.

Empatia má v podstate dva kanály.

Empathy has basically two channels: One is the body channel,

Jeden je telo.

If you talk with a sad person,

Ak sa rozprávate so smutnou osobou,

you're going to adopt a sad expression and a sad posture,

prevezmete smutný výraz a smutný postoj,

and before you know it, you feel sad.

a skôr než ste si toho vedomí, cítite sa smutne.

And that's sort of the body channel of emotional empathy,

A to je telesný kanál emocionálnej empatie,

ktorý mnoho zvierat má.

which many animals have.

Váš priemerný pes ho má tiež.

Your average dog has that also.

That's why people keep mammals in the home

Preto vlastne ľudia držia doma cicavce

and not turtles or snakes or something like that,

a nie korytnačky alebo hady a podobne,

ktoré nemajú taký druh empatie.

who don't have that kind of empathy.

And then there's a cognitive channel,

A potom je tam kognitívny kanál,

which is more that you can take the perspective of somebody else.

ktorý je o tom, že dokážete prijať perspektívu niekoho iného.

A to je viac obmedzené.

And that's more limited.

Very few animals, I think elephants and apes, can do that kind of thing.

Patrí sem pár zvierat - myslím, že slony a opice to dokážu -

ale inak je veľmi málo zvierat, ktoré to vedia.

Takže synchronizácia,

So synchronization,

ktorá je súčasťou celého mechanizmu empatie

which is part of that whole empathy mechanism,

je vo zvieracej ríši veľmi stará.

is a very old one in the animal kingdom.

A u ľudí ju môžeme sledovať

In humans, of course, we can study that with yawn contagion.

pri nákazlivosti zívania.

Humans yawn when others yawn.

Ľudia zívajú, keď iní zívajú.

And it's related to empathy.

A to súvisí s empatiou.

It activates the same areas in the brain.

Aktivuje to rovnaké oblasti v mozgu.

Also, we know that people who have a lot of yawn contagion

Taktiež vieme, že ľudia, ktorí majú silný reflex zívania,

sú veľmi empatickí.

are highly empathic.

People who have problems with empathy, such as autistic children,

Ľudia, ktorí majú problém s empatiou, tak ako autistické deti,

pre nich nie je zívanie nákazlivé.

they don't have yawn contagion.

Takže je to prepojené.

So it is connected.

And we study that in our chimpanzees by presenting them with an animated head.

U šimpanzov to skúmame tak, že im ukazujeme animované hlavy.

To vidíte hore vľavo,

So that's what you see on the upper-left, an animated head that yawns.

animovanú hlavu, ktorá zíva.

A tam je šimpanz, ktorý sa pozerá,

And there's a chimpanzee watching,

an actual real chimpanzee watching a computer screen

ozajstný živý šimpanz sleduje monitor,

on which we play these animations.

na ktorom prehrávame animáciu.

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

Takže nákazlivé zívanie

So yawn contagion that you're probably all familiar with --

nám je všetkým známe -

and maybe you're going to start yawning soon now --

a možno za chvíľu začnete všetci zívať -

is something that we share with other animals.

je to niečo, čo máme spoločné s ďalšími zvieratami.

And that's related to that whole body channel of synchronization

A to súvisí s celým tým telesným kanálom synchronizácie,

that underlies empathy,

ktorý je základom empatie

and that is universal in the mammals, basically.

a ktorý je obecne u cicavcov.

We also study more complex expressions -- This is consolation.

Skúmame aj zložitejšie výrazy. Toto je útecha.

This is a male chimpanzee who has lost a fight and he's screaming,

Toto je samec šimpanza, ktorý prehral boj a vrieska,

and a juvenile comes over and puts an arm around him

a príde mláďa a dá okolo neho ruku

a upokojí ho.

and calms him down.

That's consolation.

To je útecha. Je to veľmi podobné ľudskej úteche.

It's very similar to human consolation.

And consolation behavior --

A prejav útechy

(Laughter)

je vedený empatiou.

it's empathy driven.

Actually, the way to study empathy in human children

Vlastne empatia u detí ľudí sa skúma tak,

is to instruct a family member to act distressed,

že sa rodinnému členovi nariadi, aby sa správal skľúčene

a potom sledujú, čo deti urobia.

and then to see what young children do.

Takže to súvisí s empatiou

And so it is related to empathy,

a na takéto výrazy sa pozeráme.

and that's the kind of expressions we look at.

We also recently published an experiment you may have heard about.

Taktiež sme nedávno publikovali experiment, o ktorom ste možno počuli.

It's on altruism and chimpanzees,

Zaoberá sa altruizmom a šimpanzmi,

where the question is: Do chimpanzees care about the welfare of somebody else?

pričom otázkou je, či sa šimpanzy starajú

o blaho iných.

And for decades it had been assumed that only humans can do that,

A desiatky rokov sa predpokladalo,

že to dokážu len ľudia,

that only humans worry about the welfare of somebody else.

že len ľudia si robia starosti o blaho niekoho iného.

Now we did a very simple experiment.

My sme urobili veľmi jednoduchý experiment.

Pracujeme so šimpanzmi, ktoré žijú v Lawrenceville,

We do that on chimpanzees that live in Lawrenceville,

vo výskumnej stanici Yerkes.

in the field station of Yerkes.

And so that's how they live.

A takto žijú.

And we call them into a room and do experiments with them.

My ich privoláme do miestnosti a robíme s nimi experimenty.

In this case, we put two chimpanzees side-by-side,

V tomto prípade, sme dali dva šimpanzy vedľa seba,

and one has a bucket full of tokens, and the tokens have different meanings.

jeden má vedierko plné žetónov a tie majú rôzne významy.

Jeden druh žetónov nakŕmi len partnera, ktorý si vyberá,

One kind of token feeds only the partner who chooses,

the other one feeds both of them.

druhý nakŕmi oboch,

So this is a study we did with Vicki Horner.

Túto štúdiu sme urobili s Vicky Horner.

And here, you have the two color tokens.

A tu máte žetóny v dvoch farbách.

Takže ich majú plné vedierko.

So they have a whole bucket full of them.

A musia si vybrať jednu z dvoch farieb.

And they have to pick one of the two colors.

Uvidíte, ako to dopadne.

You will see how that goes.

Takže ak sa tento šimpanz rozhodne sebecky,

So if this chimp makes the selfish choice,

čo je v tomto prípade červený žetón,

which is the red token in this case,

musí nám ho dať.

he needs to give it to us,

we pick it up, we put it on a table where there's two food rewards,

Takže si ho vezmeme, dáme ho na stôl, kde sú dve jedlé odmeny,

ale v tomto prípade jedlo dostane len ten napravo.

but in this case, only the one on the right gets food.

The one on the left walks away because she knows already

Ten naľavo odchádza, pretože už vie,

že toto pre neho nie je dobrý test.

that this is not a good test for her.

Then the next one is the pro-social token.

Ďalší je pro-sociálny žetón.

Takže ten, ktorý robí rozhodnutia - to je to zaujímavé -

So the one who makes the choices -- that's the interesting part here --

tomu, ktorý robí rozhodnutia,

for the one who makes the choices, it doesn't really matter.

je to jedno.

So she gives us now a pro-social token and both chimps get fed.

Takže teraz nám dáva pro-sociálny žetón a oba šimpanzy sú nakŕmené.

So the one who makes the choices always gets a reward.

Takže ten, ktorý sa rozhoduje, vždy dostane odmenu.

So it doesn't matter whatsoever.

Takže je to úplne jedno.

And she should actually be choosing blindly.

A v skutočnosti by sa mal rozhodovať naslepo.

Ale zistili sme,

But what we find is that they prefer the pro-social token.

že dávajú prednosť pro-sociálnym žetónom.

So this is the 50 percent line, that's the random expectation.

Takže toto je čiara na úrovni 50 %, čo je náhodné očakávanie.

And especially if the partner draws attention to itself, they choose more.

A obzvlášť ak na seba partner upozorní, zvolia si to viac.

A ak na nich partner tlačí -

And if the partner puts pressure on them --

so if the partner starts spitting water and intimidating them --

takže ak na nich partner začne pľuť vodu a zastrašovať ich -

then the choices go down.

potom voľby klesajú.

(Laughter)

It's as if they're saying,

Je to akoby hovorili,

"If you're not behaving, I'm not going to be pro-social today."

"Ak sa nevieš správať, nebudem dnes pro-sociálny."

A toto sa deje, keď tam nie je partner,

And this is what happens without a partner,

keď tam nesedí partner.

when there's no partner sitting there.

A tak sme zistili, že sa šimpanzy zaujímajú

So we found that the chimpanzees do care about the well-being of somebody else --

o blaho iných -

especially, these are other members of their own group.

obzvlášť, toto sú ostatní členovia ich vlastnej skupiny.

Takže posledný experiment, o ktorom sa vám chcem zmieniť,

So the final experiment that I want to mention to you

je naša štúdia čestnosti.

is our fairness study.

And so this became a very famous study.

A táto štúdia sa stala veľmi známou.

And there are now many more,

A teraz je mnoho ďalších,

because after we did this about 10 years ago,

pretože po tom, čo sme ju pred 10 rokmi urobili,

it became very well-known.

stala sa veľmi známou.

And we did that originally with Capuchin monkeys.

Pôvodne sme to urobili s kapucínskymi opicami.

A ukážem vám prvý experiment, ktorý sme urobili.

And I'm going to show you the first experiment that we did.

It has now been done with dogs and with birds

Už to bolo urobené aj so psami a vtákmi

and with chimpanzees.

a šimpanzmi.

But with Sarah Brosnan, we started out with Capuchin monkeys.

Ale so Sarah Brosnan sme začali s kapucínskymi opicami.

Takže sme urobili to,

So what we did is we put two Capuchin monkeys side-by-side.

že sme dali dve kapucínske opice vedľa seba.

Again, these animals, live in a group, they know each other.

Znova, tieto zvieratá žijú v skupine, navzájom sa poznajú.

Vzali sme ich zo skupiny a dali do testovacej miestnosti.

We take them out of the group, put them in a test chamber.

A musia urobiť

And there's a very simple task that they need to do.

veľmi jednoduchú úlohu.

And if you give both of them cucumber for the task,

A ak im obom za úlohu dáte uhorku,

týmto dvom opiciam vedľa seba,

the two monkeys side-by-side,

they're perfectly willing to do this 25 times in a row.

budú ochotné urobiť tú úlohu pokojne aj 25 krát za sebou.

Takže uhorka, aj keď je to podľa môjho názoru len samá voda,

So cucumber, even though it's only really water in my opinion,

but cucumber is perfectly fine for them.

ale uhorka im úplne stačí.

Teraz keď dáte partnerovi hrozno -

Now if you give the partner grapes --

the food preferences of my Capuchin monkeys

preferencie jedla mojich kapucínskych opíc

correspond exactly with the prices in the supermarket --

presne korešpondujú s cenami v supermarketoch -

and so if you give them grapes -- it's a far better food --

a tak keď im dáte hrozno - je to o dosť lepšie jedlo -

potom medzi nimi vytvoríte nerovnosť.

then you create inequity between them.

So that's the experiment we did.

Takže to je experiment, ktorý sme urobili.

Recently, we videotaped it with new monkeys

Nedávno sme ho natočili s novými opicami, ktoré túto úlohu nikdy nerobili,

who'd never done the task,

pretože sme si mysleli, že budú mať možno silnejšiu reakciu

thinking that maybe they would have a stronger reaction,

a to sa ukázalo ako pravda.

and that turned out to be right.

Opica naľavo dostane uhorku.

The one on the left is the monkey who gets cucumber.

Tá napravo dostane hrozno.

The one on the right is the one who gets grapes.

Tá, ktorá dostane uhorku,

The one who gets cucumber --

note that the first piece of cucumber is perfectly fine.

všimnite si, že prvý kúsok uhorky je úplne v poriadku.

Prvý kúsok zje.

The first piece she eats.

Then she sees the other one getting grape, and you will see what happens.

Potom vidí, že druhá dostane hrozno a uvidíte, čo sa stane.

Dá nám kamienok. To je tá úloha.

So she gives a rock to us. That's the task.

A my jej dáme kúsok uhorky a ona ho zje.

And we give her a piece of cucumber and she eats it.

Druhá nám musí dať kamienok.

The other one needs to give a rock to us.

A to aj urobí.

And that's what she does.

And she gets a grape ...

Dostane hrozno a zje ho.

and eats it.

Druhá to vidí.

The other one sees that.

Teraz nám dá kamienok,

She gives a rock to us now,

gets, again, cucumber.

dostane znova uhorku.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

(Laughter ends)

Teraz otestuje kamienok o stenu.

She tests a rock now against the wall.

Musí nám ho dať.

She needs to give it to us.

A znova dostane uhorku.

And she gets cucumber again.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Takže tu v podstate vidíte Wall Street protest.

So this is basically the Wall Street protest that you see here.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

Dovoľte mi, aby som vám povedal -

I still have two minutes left --

stále mám 2 minúty, poviem vám o tomto vtipnú príhodu.

let me tell you a funny story about this.

Táto štúdia sa stala veľmi slávnou

This study became very famous and we got a lot of comments,

a dostali sme veľa reakcií,

obzvlášť od antropológov, ekonómov,

especially anthropologists, economists, philosophers.

filozofov.

They didn't like this at all.

Vôbec sa im nepáčila.

Because they had decided in their minds, I believe,

Pretože oni sa rozhodli, myslím,

that fairness is a very complex issue, and that animals cannot have it.

že čestnosť je veľmi komplexná záležitosť

a že zvieratá ju nemôžu mať.

And so one philosopher even wrote us

A jeden filozof nám dokonca napísal,

that it was impossible that monkeys had a sense of fairness

že je nemožné, aby opice mali zmysel pre čestnosť,

because fairness was invented during the French Revolution.

pretože čestnosť bola vynájdená počas Francúzskej revolúcie.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Ďalší nám napísal celú kapitolu

And another one wrote a whole chapter

saying that he would believe it had something to do with fairness,

o tom, že by uveril tomu, že to má niečo spoločné s čestnosťou,

if the one who got grapes would refuse the grapes.

ak by ten, čo dostal hrozno, to hrozno odmietol.

Now the funny thing is that Sarah Brosnan, who's been doing this with chimpanzees,

Vtipné je to, že Sarah Brosnan

ktorá toto robila so šimpanzmi,

had a couple of combinations of chimpanzees

mala niekoľko kombinácií šimpanzov

where, indeed, the one who would get the grape

kedy skutočne ten čo dostal hrozno, ho odmietol,

would refuse the grape until the other guy also got a grape.

kým ho nedostal aj druhý šimpanz.

Takže sa dostávame veľmi blízko k ľudskému zmyslu pre čestnosť.

So we're getting very close to the human sense of fairness.

And I think philosophers need to rethink their philosophy for a while.

A myslím, že filozofi potrebujú prehodnotiť ich filozofiu.

So let me summarize.

Takže to zhrniem.

I believe there's an evolved morality.

Verím, že je tu vyvinutá morálka.

I think morality is much more than what I've been talking about,

Myslím, že morálka je omnoho viac, než o čom som tu hovoril,

ale bola by nemožná bez zložiek,

but it would be impossible without these ingredients

ktoré nachádzame u ďalších primátov,

that we find in other primates,

which are empathy and consolation,

ktorými sú empatia a útecha,

pro-social tendencies and reciprocity and a sense of fairness.

pro-sociálne tendencie, vzájomnosť a zmysel pre čestnosť.

A tak pracujeme na týchto konkrétnych veciach,

And so we work on these particular issues

to see if we can create a morality from the bottom up, so to speak,

aby sme zistili, či dokážeme vytvoriť morálku tak povediac zdola nahor,

without necessarily god and religion involved,

bez zásahu Boha alebo náboženstva,

a zistili, ako sa dokážeme dostať k vyvinutej morálke.

and to see how we can get to an evolved morality.

A ďakujem vám za pozornosť.

And I thank you for your attention.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)