Atheism 2.0 | Alain de Botton

1,397,440 views ・ 2012-01-17

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Translator: Alvaro Moya Reviewer: Nagore Salaberria
00:15
One of the most common ways of dividing the world
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Mundua banatzeko era arruntenetariko bat
00:18
is into those who believe
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fededunen
00:20
and those who don't --
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eta fedegabeen artean da,
00:22
into the religious and the atheists.
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sinestunen eta ateoen artean.
00:25
And for the last decade or so,
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Gutxi gorabehera azkenengo hamarkadan
00:27
it's been quite clear
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oso argi geratu da
00:29
what being an atheist means.
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ateo izateak zer esan nahi duen.
00:31
There have been some very vocal atheists
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Ateo batzuek asko hitz egin dute
00:34
who've pointed out,
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azpimarratuz
00:36
not just that religion is wrong,
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erlijioa okerra ez ezik
00:38
but that it's ridiculous.
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barregarria ere badela.
00:40
These people, many of whom have lived in North Oxford,
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Pertsona horiek, asko Oxford iparraldean bizitakoak,
00:43
have argued --
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hau esan dute --
00:45
they've argued that believing in God
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argudiatu dute Jainkoagan sinestea
00:48
is akin to believing in fairies
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lamietan sinestea bezala dela
00:50
and essentially that the whole thing
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eta, funtsean, guztia
00:52
is a childish game.
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haur-jolasa dela.
00:54
Now I think it's too easy.
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Baina, uste dut errazegia dela.
00:56
I think it's too easy
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Iruditzen zait errazegia dela
00:58
to dismiss the whole of religion that way.
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erlijio osoa modu horretan baliogabetzea.
01:01
And it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
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Urmael batean arrantza egitea bezain erraza da.
01:03
And what I'd like to inaugurate today
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Beraz, gaur hasiera eman nahiko nioke
01:05
is a new way of being an atheist --
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ateo izateko era berri bati,
01:07
if you like, a new version of atheism
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nahi baduzue, ateismo bertsio berriari;
01:10
we could call Atheism 2.0.
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Ateismo 2.0 dei geniezaioke.
01:13
Now what is Atheism 2.0?
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Zer da Ateismo 2.0?
01:15
Well it starts from a very basic premise:
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Beno, oso premisa argi batetik abiatzen da:
01:17
of course, there's no God.
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Noski, Jaungoikoa ez da existitzen.
01:20
Of course, there are no deities or supernatural spirits
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Jakina, ez dago jainkorik, ezta izaki supernaturalik,
01:23
or angels, etc.
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edo aingerurik ere.
01:25
Now let's move on; that's not the end of the story,
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Baina egin dezagun aurrera; istorioa ez da hor amaitzen,
01:28
that's the very, very beginning.
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hori, hasiera besterik ez da.
01:31
I'm interested in the kind of constituency
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Interesatzen zaidan ateo taldeak
01:34
that thinks something along these lines:
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ildo honetan pentsatzen du:
01:36
that thinks, "I can't believe in any of this stuff.
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"Ezin dut halako ezertan sinetsi,
01:38
I can't believe in the doctrines.
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Ezin dut erlijio-doktrinetan sinetsi,
01:41
I don't think these doctrines are right.
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Ez dut uste doktrina horiek zuzenak direnik.
01:43
But," a very important but, "I love Christmas carols.
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Baina" oso garrantzitsua "Gabonetako kantuak izugarria gustatzen zaizkit.
01:47
I really like the art of Mantegna.
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Mantegna-ren artea izugarri gustatzen zait.
01:50
I really like looking at old churches.
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Antzinako elizei begiratzea gustatzen zait.
01:52
I really like turning the pages of the Old Testament."
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Itun Zaharraren orrialdeak pasatzea gustatzen zait".
01:55
Whatever it may be,
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Dena dela ere,
01:57
you know the kind of thing I'm talking about --
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badakizue zeri buruz ari naizen;
01:59
people who are attracted to the ritualistic side,
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errituak bereganatu dituzten pertsonak;
02:01
the moralistic, communal side of religion,
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erlijioaren alde morala eta komunala atsegin dutenak;
02:04
but can't bear the doctrine.
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baina doktrinak jasan ezin dituztenak.
02:06
Until now, these people have faced a rather unpleasant choice.
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Orain arte, pertsona horiek aukera ezeroso baten aurrean zeuden.
02:09
It's almost as though either you accept the doctrine
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Edo doktrina onartu,
02:12
and then you can have all the nice stuff,
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eta gustoko duzun guzti hori eskuratu,
02:14
or you reject the doctrine and
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edo doktrinari uko egin eta
02:16
you're living in some kind of spiritual wasteland
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basamortu espiritual moduko batean bizi
02:18
under the guidance of CNN and Walmart.
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CNN eta Walmart-en gidaritzapean.
02:20
So that's a sort of tough choice.
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Benetan dilema zaila da.
02:22
I don't think we have to make that choice.
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Ez daukagu zertan bi hauen artean aukeratu beharrik.
02:24
I think there is an alternative.
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Uste dut alternatiba bat badela.
02:26
I think there are ways --
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Uste dut badirela bideak
02:28
and I'm being both very respectful and completely impious --
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– errespetuz eta, aldi berean, lotsagabeki diot –
02:31
of stealing from religions.
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erlijioengandik ideiak lapurtzeko.
02:33
If you don't believe in a religion,
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Erlijio jakin batean sinesten ez badugu
02:35
there's nothing wrong with picking and mixing,
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arazorik gabe, batetik eta bestetik gustokoa hartu eta
02:37
with taking out the best sides of religion.
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nahastu genezake erlijioen alde onenak jasotzeko.
02:40
And for me, atheism 2.0
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Nire ustez, Ateismo 2.0
02:42
is about both, as I say,
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esan bezela,
02:44
a respectful and an impious way
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errespetuz eta lotsarik gabe,
02:47
of going through religions and saying, "What here could we use?"
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erlijioak aztertu eta, "Zer erabili dezakegu hontatik?" esatean datza.
02:50
The secular world is full of holes.
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Mundu sekularra hutsunez beteta dago.
02:52
We have secularized badly, I would argue.
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Txarto sekularizatu garela esango nuke.
02:55
And a thorough study of religion
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Eta erlijioaren azterketa sakonetik
02:57
could give us all sorts of insights
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ikasgai anitzak jaso ditzakegu
02:59
into areas of life that are not going too well.
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hain ongi ez dihoazkigun bizitzaren eremu horietaz.
03:02
And I'd like to run through a few of these today.
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Eta ikasketa horietako batzuk azaldu nahi nituzke gaur.
03:06
I'd like to kick off by looking at education.
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Hezkuntzari begiratuz hasi nahi nuke.
03:09
Now education is a field
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Hezkuntza eremuan
03:11
the secular world really believes in.
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mundu sekularrak erabateko sinesmena du.
03:13
When we think about how we're going to make the world a better place,
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Mundua nola hobetu pentsatzen jartzen garenean,
03:15
we think education; that's where we put a lot of money.
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hezkuntza datorkigu burura; horretan jartzen dugu gure dirua.
03:18
Education is going to give us, not only commercial skills, industrial skills,
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Hezkuntzak lanerako eta industriarako trebetasunak emateaz gain,
03:21
it's also going to make us better people.
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pertsona hobeak izaten lagunduko digu.
03:23
You know the kind of thing a commencement address is, and graduation ceremonies,
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Badakizue, hitzaldietan eta graduazio-zeremonietan,
03:26
those lyrical claims
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halako aldarrikapen lirikoak izaten dira:
03:28
that education, the process of education -- particularly higher education --
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hezkuntzak, hezkuntza-prozesuak -- bereziki, goi mailako hezkuntzak --
03:31
will make us into nobler and better human beings.
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gizaki prestuago eta zintzoagoak egingo gaituela.
03:34
That's a lovely idea.
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Ideia zoragarria da.
03:36
Interesting where it came from.
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Jatorria ere interesgarria da.
03:38
In the early 19th century,
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XIX. mendearen hasieran,
03:40
church attendance in Western Europe
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Europa Mendebaldean elizara zihoan jende kopurua
03:42
started sliding down very, very sharply, and people panicked.
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asko murriztu zen, oso denbora laburrean eta zenbait izutu egin ziren.
03:45
They asked themselves the following question.
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Euren buruari zera galdetzen zioten:
03:47
They said, where are people going to find the morality,
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Non aurkituko du jendeak moraltasuna,
03:50
where are they going to find guidance,
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non topatuko dute aholkularitza,
03:52
and where are they going to find sources of consolation?
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eta non aurkituko dituzte kontsolamendurako iturriak?
03:54
And influential voices came up with one answer.
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Ahots boteretsuek orduan erantzun bateratua eman zuten.
03:56
They said culture.
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Kultura proposatu zuten.
03:58
It's to culture that we should look
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Kultura izango da oinarri
04:00
for guidance, for consolation, for morality.
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aholkularitzarako, kontsolamendurako, moraltasunerako.
04:03
Let's look to the plays of Shakespeare,
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Har ditzagun Shakespeare-en antzezlanak,
04:05
the dialogues of Plato, the novels of Jane Austen.
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Platon-en elkarrizketak, Jane Austen-en eleberriak.
04:08
In there, we'll find a lot of the truths
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Lan horietan egia asko aurkituko ditugu
04:10
that we might previously have found in the Gospel of Saint John.
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lehenago San Joanen ebanjelioan aurkitzen genituen berberak agian.
04:13
Now I think that's a very beautiful idea and a very true idea.
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Uste dut hau oso ideia polita dela eta egia da.
04:16
They wanted to replace scripture with culture.
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Ebanjelioa kulturarekin ordezkatu nahi izan zuten.
04:19
And that's a very plausible idea.
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Eta oso ideia onargarria da.
04:21
It's also an idea that we have forgotten.
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Halaber, ahaztu dugun ideia bat ere bada.
04:25
If you went to a top university --
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Unibertsitate ospetsuren batera joko bagenu --
04:27
let's say you went to Harvard or Oxford or Cambridge --
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demagun Harvard, Oxford edo Cambridgera --
04:29
and you said, "I've come here
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esanaz, "Hona etorri naiz
04:31
because I'm in search of morality, guidance and consolation;
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moraltasunaren, aholkularitza eta kontsolamenduaren bila;
04:33
I want to know how to live,"
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nola bizi jakin nahi dut,"
04:35
they would show you the way to the insane asylum.
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eroetxerako bidea erakutsiko ligukete.
04:38
This is simply not what our grandest and best institutes of higher learning
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Gure goi mailako hezkuntza-instituzioek
04:41
are in the business of.
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ez dute horrelako lanik egiten.
04:43
Why? They don't think we need it.
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Zergatik? Ez dute uste beharrezkoa denik.
04:45
They don't think we are in an urgent need of assistance.
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Ez dute uste laguntza-premiarik daukagunik.
04:48
They see us as adults, rational adults.
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Pertsona heldu arrazionaltzat jotzen gaituzte.
04:50
What we need is information.
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Behar duguna informazioa da.
04:52
We need data, we don't need help.
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Datuak behar ditugu, ez laguntzarik.
04:54
Now religions start from a very different place indeed.
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Baina erlijioek bestelako abiapuntua dute.
04:57
All religions, all major religions,
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Erlijio guztiek, erlijio nagusi guztiek
04:59
at various points call us children.
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umetzat hartzen gaituzte.
05:02
And like children,
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Eta ume garenez gero,
05:04
they believe that we are in severe need of assistance.
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sinesten dute laguntza premian gaudela.
05:06
We're only just holding it together.
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Doi doi eusten diogu gure buruari.
05:08
Perhaps this is just me, maybe you.
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Agian hau nere irudipena soilik da, agian zurea ere bai.
05:10
But anyway, we're only just holding it together.
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Baina doi doi eusten diogu gure buruari.
05:13
And we need help. Of course, we need help.
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Eta laguntza behar dugu. Noski behar dugula.
05:15
And so we need guidance and we need didactic learning.
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Baita aholkularitza eta ikaskuntza didaktikoa ere.
05:18
You know, in the 18th century in the U.K.,
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XVIII. mendean, Erresuma Batuan,
05:20
the greatest preacher, greatest religious preacher, was a man called John Wesley,
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erlijio sermolari onena John Wesley izeneko gizon bat zen,
05:23
who went up and down this country delivering sermons,
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herria goitik behera zeharkatu zuen sermoiak ematen,
05:26
advising people how they could live.
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jendeari nola bizi aholkatzen.
05:28
He delivered sermons on the duties of parents to their children
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Gurasoen seme-alabekiko betebeharrei buruz sermoiak ematen zituen
05:30
and children to their parents,
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baita seme-alaben gurasoekiko betebeharrez,
05:32
the duties of the rich to the poor and the poor to the rich.
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aberatsen txiroekiko eta txiroen aberatsekiko betebeharrez.
05:34
He was trying to tell people how they should live
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Jendeari nola bizi behar luketen esaten saiatu zen
05:36
through the medium of sermons,
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sermoien bidez,
05:38
the classic medium of delivery of religions.
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erlijioen ohiko komunikazio-metodoa.
05:41
Now we've given up with the idea of sermons.
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Orain sermoien ideia guztiz arbuiatu dugu.
05:43
If you said to a modern liberal individualist,
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Gaur egungo liberal indibidualista bati esango bagenio,
05:45
"Hey, how about a sermon?"
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"Aizu, sermoi bat entzun nahi duzu?"
05:47
they'd go, "No, no. I don't need one of those.
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erantzuna, "Ez, ez ,ez. Ez dut horrelakorik behar.
05:49
I'm an independent, individual person."
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Pertsona gizabanakoa eta burujabea naiz."
05:51
What's the difference between a sermon
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Zer alde dago sermoi bat
05:53
and our modern, secular mode of delivery, the lecture?
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eta gaur egungo hitzaldiaren artean?
05:56
Well a sermon wants to change your life
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Ba, sermoi batek zure bizitza aldatu nahi du
05:59
and a lecture wants to give you a bit of information.
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eta hitzaldiak informazioa eman nahi dizu.
06:02
And I think we need to get back to that sermon tradition.
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Eta nire ustez sermoiaren tradiziora bueltatu behar dugu.
06:05
The tradition of sermonizing is hugely valuable,
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Sermoiak emateko tradizioa oso baliogarria da,
06:07
because we are in need of guidance,
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aholkularitza beharrean garelako,
06:09
morality and consolation --
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moraltasunaren eta kontsolamenduaren beharra ere --
06:11
and religions know that.
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eta erlijioek badakite hori.
06:13
Another point about education:
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Hezkuntzari buruz beste puntu bat:
06:15
we tend to believe in the modern secular world
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Gure mundu sekularrean badugu sinesteko joera bat;
06:17
that if you tell someone something once, they'll remember it.
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norbaiti zerbait behin esan eta gogoratuko duela.
06:20
Sit them in a classroom, tell them about Plato
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Ikasgela batean esertzen ditugu, Platon-i buruz hitz egin
06:22
at the age of 20, send them out for a career in management consultancy for 40 years,
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20 urterekin, enpresa kudeaketa-aholkularitzan 40 urtetako lanbidean bidali
06:25
and that lesson will stick with them.
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eta ikasgai hura beti gogoan izango dute.
06:27
Religions go, "Nonsense.
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Erlijioen iritziz, "Txorakeriak.
06:29
You need to keep repeating the lesson 10 times a day.
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Ikasgaia egunean 10 bider errepikatu behar da.
06:32
So get on your knees and repeat it."
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Beraz, belaunikatu eta errepikatu."
06:34
That's what all religions tell us:
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Hau da erlijio guztiek esaten digutena:
06:36
"Get on you knees and repeat it 10 or 20 or 15 times a day."
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"Belauniko jarri eta errepikatu egunean 10 edo 20 edo 15 bider."
06:39
Otherwise our minds are like sieves.
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Gainontzean gure adimena bahe modukoa da.
06:41
So religions are cultures of repetition.
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Beraz, erlijioak errepikapen kulturak dira.
06:43
They circle the great truths again and again and again.
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Egia nagusiak behin eta berriz azpimarratzen dituzte.
06:45
We associate repetition with boredom.
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Errepikapena aspertzearekin lotzen dugu.
06:47
"Give us the new," we're always saying.
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"Erakutsi zer den berria", esan ohi dugu.
06:49
"The new is better than the old."
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"Berria zaharra baino hobea da."
06:51
If I said to you, "Okay, we're not going to have new TED.
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Esango banizue, "Ados, ez da TED saio berririk izango.
06:53
We're just going to run through all the old ones
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Zaharrak errepikatu besterik ez dugu egingo
06:55
and watch them five times because they're so true.
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eta 5 aldiz ikusiko ditugu guztiz egiazkoak direlako.
06:57
We're going to watch Elizabeth Gilbert five times
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Elisabeth Gilbert-en saioa 5 aldiz ikusiko dugu
07:00
because what she says is so clever," you'd feel cheated.
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esaten duena hain da azkarra", guztiz iruzurtuak sentituko zinatekete.
07:03
Not so if you're adopting a religious mindset.
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Baina ez, ikuspuntu erlijiosoa hartuko bazenute.
07:05
The other things that religions do
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Erlijioek egiten duten beste gauza bat
07:07
is to arrange time.
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denbora antolatzea da.
07:09
All the major religions give us calendars.
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Erlijio nagusi guztiek ematen dizkigute egutegiak.
07:11
What is a calendar?
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Zer da egutegi bat?
07:13
A calendar is a way of making sure that across the year
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Egutegi batek bermatzen du, urte osoan zehar
07:16
you will bump into certain very important ideas.
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zenbait ideia oso garrantzitsu topatuko dituzuela.
07:19
In the Catholic chronology, Catholic calendar,
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Kronologia katolikoan, egutegi katolikoan,
07:22
at the end of March you will think about St. Jerome
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martxoaren amaieran, San Jeronimogan pentsatuko duzue
07:24
and his qualities of humility and goodness
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eta bere apaltasun eta ontasun ezaugarrietan
07:26
and his generosity to the poor.
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baita bere eskuzabaltasunean txiroekiko.
07:28
You won't do that by accident; you will do that because you are guided to do that.
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Ez da kasualitatez gertatuko; hartara gidatuak izango zaretelako egingo duzue hori.
07:31
Now we don't think that way.
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Gaur ez dugu horrela pentsatzen.
07:33
In the secular world we think, "If an idea is important, I'll bump into it.
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Gure mundu sekularraren pentsakera: "Ideia garrantzitsua bada, ageriko egingo zaigu.
07:35
I'll just come across it."
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Gure bidean topatuko dugu."
07:37
Nonsense, says the religious world view.
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Txorakeriak, dio erlijioaren ikuspegiak.
07:39
Religious view says we need calendars, we need to structure time,
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Erlijioaren ikuspegiak dio egutegiak behar ditugula, denbora antolatzu behar dugula,
07:42
we need to synchronize encounters.
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topaketak sinkronizatu behar ditugu..
07:44
This comes across also
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Hau, hein berean
07:46
in the way in which religions set up rituals
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erlijioen errituetan ere gertatzen da
07:48
around important feelings.
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garrantzi handiko sentimenduen inguruan.
07:50
Take the Moon. It's really important to look at the Moon.
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Har dezagun Ilargia. Oso garrantzitsua da Ilargiari begiratzea.
07:53
You know, when you look at the Moon,
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Zeren, Ilargia begiratzen dugunean,
07:55
you think, "I'm really small. What are my problems?"
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pentsatzen dugu, "Ez gara ezer. Zein dira nire arazoak?"
07:57
It sets things into perspective, etc., etc.
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Gauzak perspektiban ikusten dira eta abar eta abar.
07:59
We should all look at the Moon a bit more often. We don't.
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Ilargiari maizago begiratu behar genioke. Baina ez dugu egiten.
08:01
Why don't we? Well there's nothing to tell us, "Look at the Moon."
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Zergatik? Ezerk ez digulako "Begira ezazu Ilargia" esaten.
08:04
But if you're a Zen Buddhist in the middle of September,
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Baina Zen budistak bagina irailaren erdian,
08:07
you will be ordered out of your home, made to stand on a canonical platform
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etxetik irtetera behartuta egongo ginake, plataforma kanoniko baten gainean
08:10
and made to celebrate the festival of Tsukimi,
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Tsukimi-ren jaialdia ospatzeko,
08:12
where you will be given poems to read
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zein poema irakurri esango digute
08:14
in honor of the Moon and the passage of time
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Ilargiaren eta denboraren iraganaren omenez
08:16
and the frailty of life that it should remind us of.
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eta bizitzaren hauskortasuna gogoan izan dezagun.
08:18
You'll be handed rice cakes.
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Arroz-opilak emango dizkigute.
08:20
And the Moon and the reflection on the Moon
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Eta ilargia eta ilargiari buruzko gogoetak
08:22
will have a secure place in your heart.
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zure bihotzean gordeko dira.
08:24
That's very good.
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Oso ondo dago hori.
08:26
The other thing that religions are really aware of
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Erlijioek oso ondo ikasia duten beste zerbait
08:28
is: speak well --
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ondo hitz egitea da --
08:30
I'm not doing a very good job of this here --
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lan kaskarra egiten ari naiz gaur --
08:32
but oratory, oratory is absolutely key to religions.
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baina hizlaritza, hizlaritza funtsezkoa da erlijioentzat.
08:35
In the secular world, you can come through the university system and be a lousy speaker
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Mundu sekularrean, Unibertsitatetik pasa zaitezke, hizlari kaxkarra izan
08:38
and still have a great career.
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eta halere, lanbide aparta eduki.
08:40
But the religious world doesn't think that way.
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Baina mundu erlijiosoak ez du horrela ikusten.
08:42
What you're saying needs to be backed up
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Dioguna babesten jakin behar dugu,
08:44
by a really convincing way of saying it.
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esateko modu sinesgarria erabiliz.
08:46
So if you go to an African-American Pentecostalist church
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Eliza afroamerikar pentekostal batera joko bagenu
08:48
in the American South
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Ameriketako hegoaldean
08:50
and you listen to how they talk,
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eta haiek hitz egiten entzungo bagenitu
08:52
my goodness, they talk well.
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bai Jauna, badakite hitz egiten!.
08:54
After every convincing point, people will go, "Amen, amen, amen."
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Esaldi sinesgarri bakoitzaren ostean, jendeak "Amen, amen, amen" erantzuten dute.
08:57
At the end of a really rousing paragraph, they'll all stand up,
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Eta paragrafo hunkigarri baten amaieran, zutitu egingo dira.
08:59
and they'll go, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Christ, thank you Savior."
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"Mila esker Jesus, mila esker Kristo, mila esker Salbatzailea,"
09:02
If we were doing it like they do it --
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Guk haien moduan egingo bagenu --
09:04
let's not do it, but if we were to do it --
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ez dezagun egin, baina egingo bagenu --
09:07
I would tell you something like, "Culture should replace scripture."
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Nik esango nuke, adibidez: "Kulturak eskriturak ordezkatu beharko lituzke."
09:09
And you would go, "Amen, amen, amen."
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Eta zuek erantzungo zenukete, "Amen, amen, amen."
09:11
And at the end of my talk, you would all stand up
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Eta nire hitzaldiaren amaieran, zutitu egingo zinatekete
09:13
and you would go, "Thank you Plato, thank you Shakespeare, thank you Jane Austen."
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esanez, "Mila esker, Platon; mila esker, Shakespeare; mila esker, Jane Austen."
09:15
And we'd know that we had a real rhythm going.
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Eta jakingo genuke erritmo on bat lortu dugula gure artean.
09:18
All right, all right. We're getting there. We're getting there.
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Ondo, ondo. Gerturatzen ari gara. Gerturatzen ari gara.
09:20
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
09:22
The other thing that religions know is we're not just brains,
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Erlijioek dakiten beste zerbait, adimena soilik ez garela da,
09:24
we are also bodies.
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gorputzak ere bagarela.
09:26
And when they teach us a lesson,
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Eta ikasgaia irakasten digutenean,
09:28
they do it via the body.
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gorputzaren bidez egiten dute.
09:30
So for example,
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Adibidez,
09:32
take the Jewish idea of forgiveness.
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har dezagun Judutarren barkamen ideia,
09:34
Jews are very interested in forgiveness
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Judutarrei asko interesatzen zaie barkamena
09:36
and how we should start anew and start afresh.
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eta berriro nola hasi eta garbi nola hasi.
09:38
They don't just deliver us sermons on this.
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Ez dizkigute sermoiak soilik ematen horri buruz.
09:40
They don't just give us books or words about this.
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Ez digute liburuak edo hitzak soilik ematen horri buruz.
09:42
They tell us to have a bath.
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Bainatzeko esaten digute.
09:44
So in Orthodox Jewish communities, every Friday you go to a Mikveh.
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Beraz, Judutar Ortodoxoen komunitateetan, ostiralero Mikveh batera joaten dira.
09:47
You immerse yourself in the water,
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Zure burua uran murgildu,
09:49
and a physical action backs up a philosophical idea.
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eta ekintza fiisikoak ideia filosofikoa indartzen du.
09:52
We don't tend to do that.
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Guk ez dugu horrelakorik egiten.
09:54
Our ideas are in one area and our behavior with our bodies is in another.
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Gure ideiak eremu batean ditugu eta gure gorputzen portaera beste batean.
09:57
Religions are fascinating in the way they try and combine the two.
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Erlijioak liluragarriak dira bi gauza hauek elkartzeko duten gaitasunagatik.
09:59
Let's look at art now.
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Azter dezagun artea jarraian.
10:01
Now art is something that in the secular world,
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Mundu sekularrean artea
10:04
we think very highly of. We think art is really, really important.
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guztiz estimagarria dela uste dugu. Oso, oso garrantzitsua dela.
10:07
A lot of our surplus wealth goes to museums, etc.
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Gure ondasunen soberakin asko museo eta abarretara doaz.
10:10
We sometimes hear it said
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Noizean behin entzuten dugu
10:12
that museums are our new cathedrals, or our new churches.
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museoak gure katedral edo eliza berriak direla.
10:15
You've heard that saying.
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Entzungo zenuten hori, ziur.
10:17
Now I think that the potential is there,
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Uste dut gaitasuna badutela,
10:19
but we've completely let ourselves down.
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baina geure buruari kale egin diogu zeharo.
10:21
And the reason we've let ourselves down
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Eta egoera horren arrazoia da
10:23
is that we're not properly studying
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ez dugula behar bezala aztertu
10:25
how religions handle art.
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erlijioek artea nola tratatzen duten.
10:29
The two really bad ideas that are hovering in the modern world
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Mundu modernoaren inguruan dabiltza bi ideia txarrenak
10:32
that inhibit our capacity to draw strength from art:
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eta artearen indarraz baliatzea eragozten digutenak:
10:36
The first idea is that art should be for art's sake --
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Lehena, arteak musu-truk izan behar lukeela da --
10:38
a ridiculous idea --
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benetan ideia barregarria --
10:40
an idea that art should live in a hermetic bubble
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arteak burbuila itxian bizi beharko lukeela
10:42
and should not try to do anything with this troubled world.
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eta ez lukeela ezer egin behar arazoz jositako mundu honekin.
10:45
I couldn't disagree more.
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Guztiz aurka nago.
10:47
The other thing that we believe is that art shouldn't explain itself,
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Sinesten dugun bigarren ideia da, arteak ez lukeela azalpenik eman behar,
10:50
that artists shouldn't say what they're up to,
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artistek ez luketela zer darabilten azaldu behar,
10:52
because if they said it, it might destroy the spell
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zeren, esango balute, lilura apur bailezake
10:54
and we might find it too easy.
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eta errazegia dela pentsa baigenezake.
10:56
That's why a very common feeling when you're in a museum --
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Horregatik, museo batean gaudenean oso sentimendu arrunta da --
10:58
let's admit it --
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onar dezagun --
11:00
is, "I don't know what this is about."
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"Ez dakit hau zeri buruz den"
11:02
But if we're serious people, we don't admit to that.
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Baina oso pertsona serioak bagara, ez dugu inoiz onartuko.
11:04
But that feeling of puzzlement is structural
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Baina harridura sentsazio hori guztiz oinarrizkoa da
11:07
to contemporary art.
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arte garaikidearekin.
11:10
Now religions have a much saner attitude to art.
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Erlijioek artearekin erlazio sanoagoa daukate.
11:12
They have no trouble telling us what art is about.
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Ez daukate arazorik artea zertaz den adierazteko.
11:14
Art is about two things in all the major faiths.
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Fede nagusietan arteak bi gauzekin du zerikusia.
11:16
Firstly, it's trying to remind you
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Lehenenik eta behin, saiatzen da gogorarazten
11:18
of what there is to love.
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zer maitatu dezakegun.
11:20
And secondly, it's trying to remind you
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Eta bigarrenik, saiatzen da gogorarazten
11:22
of what there is to fear and to hate.
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zeri beldur edo gorroto izan behar geniokeen.
11:24
And that's what art is.
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Horixe da artea.
11:26
Art is a visceral encounter with the most important ideas of your faith.
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Artea gure sinesmen nagusienekin barne topaketa bat da
11:29
So as you walk around a church,
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Beraz, eliza baten barnean gabiltzenean
11:31
or a mosque or a cathedral,
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edo mezkita batean edo katedral batean,
11:33
what you're trying to imbibe, what you're imbibing is,
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surgatzen ari gara, nahita edo nahi gabe,
11:35
through your eyes, through your senses,
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begietatik eta zentzumen guztietatik barneratuz
11:37
truths that have otherwise come to you through your mind.
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bestela adimenaren bidez jaso ditugun egia horiek.
11:39
Essentially it's propaganda.
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Funtsean, propaganda da.
11:41
Rembrandt is a propagandist
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Rembrandt propagandista bat da
11:43
in the Christian view.
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Kirstautasunaren ikuspegitik.
11:45
Now the word "propaganda" sets off alarm bells.
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Baina "propaganda" hitzak urduritzen gaitu.
11:47
We think of Hitler, we think of Stalin. Don't, necessarily.
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Hitler, Stalin gogorarazten digu. Ez derrigorrean.
11:49
Propaganda is a manner of being didactic in honor of something.
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Propaganda zerbaiten izenean didaktikoa izateko modu bat da.
11:52
And if that thing is good, there's no problem with it at all.
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Eta zerbait hori ona bada, ez dago arazorik propagandarekin.
11:55
My view is that museums should take a leaf out of the book of religions.
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Uste dut museoek erlijio-liburuetatik ikasgaia hau hartu behar dutela.
11:59
And they should make sure that when you walk into a museum --
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Ziurtatu behar lukete, museo batera sartzen garenean –
12:01
if I was a museum curator,
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museo arduraduna banintz,
12:03
I would make a room for love, a room for generosity.
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gela bat maitasunarentzat egingo nuke, bestea eskuzabaltasunarentzat.
12:06
All works of art are talking to us about things.
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Artelan guztiek zerbaiti buruz hitz egiten digute,
12:08
And if we were able to arrange spaces
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Eta espazioak antolatu ahal izango bagenitu
12:10
where we could come across works
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non artelanak aurki ditzakegun,
12:12
where we would be told, use these works of art
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non artelan horien bidez ikasgaiak jaso ditzakegun,
12:14
to cement these ideas in your mind,
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gure adimenean ideia horiek finkatzeko,
12:16
we would get a lot more out of art.
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artetik probetxu gehiago aterako genuke.
12:18
Art would pick up the duty that it used to have
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Arteak bete ohi zuen funtzioa berreskuratuko luke
12:21
and that we've neglected because of certain mis-founded ideas.
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hots, oinarri eskaseko ideia batzuengatik baztertu dugun funtzio bat.
12:24
Art should be one of the tools
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Arteak gizartea hobetzeko erremintetako bat
12:26
by which we improve our society.
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izan behar luke.
12:28
Art should be didactic.
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Arteak didaktikoa izan behar luke.
12:31
Let's think of something else.
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Azter dezagun beste gai bat.
12:33
The people in the modern world, in the secular world,
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Mundu modernoan, gure mundu sekularrean,
12:35
who are interested in matters of the spirit,
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espiritu gaietan interesa duten pertsonak,
12:37
in matters of the mind,
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adimenaren gaietan,
12:39
in higher soul-like concerns,
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arima moduko gai gorenetan,
12:42
tend to be isolated individuals.
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pertsona bakartiak izan ohi dira.
12:44
They're poets, they're philosophers, they're photographers, they're filmmakers.
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Poetak, filosofoak, argazkilariak, zinemagileak dira.
12:47
And they tend to be on their own.
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Eta bakarrik ibiltzeko joera dute.
12:49
They're our cottage industries. They are vulnerable, single people.
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Artisau-industriak dira. Pertsona sentiberak eta bakanak dira.
12:52
And they get depressed and they get sad on their own.
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Eta erraz deprimitzen eta goibeltzen dira beren kasa.
12:54
And they don't really change much.
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Eta ez dute ezer askorik aldatzen.
12:56
Now think about religions, think about organized religions.
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Orain, pentsa dezagun erlijio antolatuetan.
12:58
What do organized religions do?
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Zer egiten dute erlijio antolatuek?
13:00
They group together, they form institutions.
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Taldeak sortzen dituzte, instituzioak sortzen dituzte.
13:03
And that has all sorts of advantages.
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Eta horrek mota askotako abaintalak ditu.
13:05
First of all, scale, might.
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Lehenik eta behin, eskala, indarra.
13:08
The Catholic Church pulled in 97 billion dollars last year
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Eliza katolikoak US$ 97.000 milioi eskuratu zituen iaz
13:11
according to the Wall Street Journal.
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Wall Street Journal egunkariaren arabera.
13:13
These are massive machines.
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Makina erraldoiak dira.
13:15
They're collaborative, they're branded, they're multinational,
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Elkarrekin lan egiten dute, multinazionalak dira, marka dute
13:18
and they're highly disciplined.
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eta oso diziplinatuak dira.
13:20
These are all very good qualities.
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Oso ezaugarri onak dira horiek.
13:22
We recognize them in relation to corporations.
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Enpresekin lotuta ezagutzen ditugun ezaugarriak.
13:24
And corporations are very like religions in many ways,
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Eta enpresek erlijioekin antzekotasuna ere badute
13:26
except they're right down at the bottom of the pyramid of needs.
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nahiz eta beharren piramidearen oinarrian dauden.
13:28
They're selling us shoes and cars.
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Zapatak eta kotxeak saltzen dizkigute.
13:30
Whereas the people who are selling us the higher stuff --
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Gai gorenak saltzen dizkigun jendea –
13:32
the therapists, the poets --
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terapeutak, poetak –
13:34
are on their own and they have no power,
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bakarrik eta botererik gabe dauden bitartean,
13:36
they have no might.
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ez daukate indarrik.
13:38
So religions are the foremost example
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Beraz, erligioak dira adimenaren gaien alde
13:41
of an institution that is fighting for the things of the mind.
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borrokatzen duen instituzio baten adibiderik onena.
13:44
Now we may not agree with what religions are trying to teach us,
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Agian ez gatoz bat irakatsi nahi digutenarekin,
13:47
but we can admire the institutional way
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baina euren lanerako modu instituzionala
13:49
in which they're doing it.
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goretsi dezakegu.
13:51
Books alone, books written by lone individuals,
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Liburuek bakarrik, pertsona bakartiek idatzitako liburuek,
13:54
are not going to change anything.
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ez dute gauza askorik aldatuko.
13:56
We need to group together.
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Bildu egin behar dugu.
13:58
If you want to change the world, you have to group together, you have to be collaborative.
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Mundua aldatu nahi badugu, bildu eta elkarrekin lan behar dugu.
14:01
And that's what religions do.
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Horrela egiten dute erlijioek.
14:03
They are multinational, as I say,
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Multinazionalak dira, lehen aipatu dudan bezala,
14:05
they are branded, they have a clear identity,
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marka eta nortasun argia dituzte,
14:08
so they don't get lost in a busy world.
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eta ez dira saturatutako mundu honetan galtzen.
14:10
That's something we can learn from.
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Hori ikasi behar genuke.
14:12
I want to conclude.
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Amaitu nahi nuke.
14:14
Really what I want to say
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Benetan esan nahi dudana
14:16
is for many of you who are operating in a range of different fields,
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esparru anitzetan lanean zabiltzatenontzat da,
14:19
there is something to learn from the example of religion --
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erlijioen adibidetik zerbait ikas daitekeela –
14:22
even if you don't believe any of it.
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esaten duten ezer sinetsi ez arren.
14:25
If you're involved in anything that's communal,
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Auzolan moduke zerbaitetan aritzen bazarete,
14:27
that involves lots of people getting together,
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jende askorekin elkarlanean aritzen bazarete,
14:29
there are things for you in religion.
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erlijian gauza erabilgarriak aurki ditzakezue.
14:31
If you're involved, say, in a travel industry in any way,
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Adibidez, bidaia-industrian aritzen bazarete,
14:34
look at pilgrimage.
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begira iezaiozue erromesaldiei.
14:36
Look very closely at pilgrimage.
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Begiratu arretaz erromesaldiak.
14:38
We haven't begun to scratch the surface
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Bidaia izan daitekeenaren gainazala
14:40
of what travel could be
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urratu besterik ez dugu egin
14:42
because we haven't looked at what religions do with travel.
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erlijioek bidaiekin zer egin duten ez dugulako aztertu.
14:44
If you're in the art world,
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Artearen munduan aritzen bazarete
14:46
look at the example of what religions are doing with art.
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begira ezazue erlijioen adibidea artean.
14:48
And if you're an educator in any way,
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Eta nolabaiteko hezitzaileak bazarete
14:51
again, look at how religions are spreading ideas.
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berdin, begira ezazue erlijioek nola hedatzen dituzten sinesmenak.
14:54
You may not agree with the ideas,
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Agian ez zarete ideiekin ados egongo
14:56
but my goodness, they're highly effective mechanisms for doing so.
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baina, bai Jauna, oso mekanismo erangikorrak dira.
14:59
So really my concluding point
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Beraz, nire azken puntua da
15:01
is you may not agree with religion,
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agian gatoz erlijioekin bat,
15:03
but at the end of the day,
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baina azken finean,
15:05
religions are so subtle, so complicated,
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erlijioak hain dira zuhur eta konplexuak
15:07
so intelligent in many ways
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hain dira burutsuak arlo askotan,
15:09
that they're not fit to be abandoned to the religious alone;
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ez liratekela erlijiosoen eskuetan soilik utzi behar;
15:12
they're for all of us.
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baliagarriak dira guztiontzat.
15:14
Thank you very much.
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Mila esker.
15:16
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
15:33
Chris Anderson: Now this is actually a courageous talk,
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Chris Anderson: Beno, hau solasaldi ausarta da benetan,
15:35
because you're kind of setting up yourself in some ways
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zeren, nolabait zure burua agerian uzten ari zara
15:37
to be ridiculed in some quarters.
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zenbait lekutan barregarri jar zaitzaten arriskuan.
15:39
AB: You can get shot by both sides.
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AB: Bi aldeetatik jo zaitzakete.
15:41
You can get shot by the hard-headed atheists,
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Ateo amorratuek jo zaitzakete
15:43
and you can get shot by those who fully believe.
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baita sinesle amorratuek ere.
15:46
CA: Incoming missiles from North Oxford at any moment.
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CA: Berehala Oxford Iparraldetik misilak ailegatuko dira.
15:48
AB: Indeed.
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AB: Horrela da, bai.
15:50
CA: But you left out one aspect of religion
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CA: Baina bada erlijioaren aspektu bat saihestu duzuna
15:53
that a lot of people might say
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eta, jende askok esango du agian
15:55
your agenda could borrow from,
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zure diskurtsoak gehitu zenezakela,
15:57
which is this sense --
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hau da, zentzu hori –
15:59
that's actually probably the most important thing to anyone who's religious --
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baliteke sinesdun batentzako garrantzitsuena izatea –
16:01
of spiritual experience,
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esperientzia esperitual baten zentzua,
16:03
of some kind of connection
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norbera baino handiagoa den
16:05
with something that's bigger than you are.
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zerbaitekin konexio moduko bat.
16:07
Is there any room for that experience in Atheism 2.0?
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Ba al da lekurik Ateismo 2.0-an esperientzia horietarako?
16:10
AB: Absolutely. I, like many of you, meet people
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AB: Noski baietz. Nik, zuetako asko bezala, topatu naiz
16:13
who say things like, "But isn't there something bigger than us,
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honen moduko zerbait diotenekin, "Ez al da gu baino handiago den zerbait,
16:16
something else?"
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beste zerbait?"
16:18
And I say, "Of course." And they say, "So aren't you sort of religious?"
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Nere erantzuna, "Bai noski". Eta beraiek orduan, "Beraz, ez al zara zu ere erlijiosoa?"
16:21
And I go, "No." Why does that sense of mystery,
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Orduan, nik, "Ez". Zergatik da misterio sentsazio hori,
16:24
that sense of the dizzying scale of the universe,
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unibertsoaren eskala zorabiagarri hori sentitzea,
16:27
need to be accompanied by a mystical feeling?
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zentzu mistiko batekin uztartuta aurkeztu beharra?
16:30
Science and just observation
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Zientziak eta behaketa soilak
16:32
gives us that feeling without it,
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sentsazio hori eragiten digute mistikotasunik gabe
16:34
so I don't feel the need.
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beraz, ez dut beharrik sentitzen.
16:36
The universe is large and we are tiny,
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Unibertsoa erraldoia da eta guk txiki-txikiak,
16:38
without the need for further religious superstructure.
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ez da superestruktura erlijiosoen beharrik hortaz jabetzeko.
16:42
So one can have so-called spiritual moments
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Batek "momentu espiritualak" izan ditzake
16:44
without belief in the spirit.
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espirituan sinetsi gabe.
16:46
CA: Actually, let me just ask a question.
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CA: Galdera bat egin nahi nizuke.
16:48
How many people here would say
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Zure ustez hemengo zenbatentzat
16:50
that religion is important to them?
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da erlijioa garrantzi handikoa?
16:54
Is there an equivalent process
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Ba al da jorratu duzun gaia eta
16:57
by which there's a sort of bridge
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haiei esango zeniekearen artean
16:59
between what you're talking about and what you would say to them?
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zubitzat egin dezaken prozesu baliokederen bat?
17:02
AB: I would say that there are many, many gaps in secular life
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AB: Bizitza sekularrean hutsune ugari daudela esango nuke
17:04
and these can be plugged.
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baina bete daitezke.
17:06
It's not as though, as I try to suggest,
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Nik helarazi nahi nukeena da, ez dela
17:08
it's not as though either you have religion
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erlijioan barneratzen denak
17:10
and then you have to accept all sorts of things,
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bertako gauza guztiak onartu behar dituela,
17:12
or you don't have religion
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edo erlijiorik ez duenak
17:14
and then you're cut off from all these very good things.
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gauza on guzti horiek gabe geratzen denik.
17:17
It's so sad that we constantly say,
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Tristea da eten gabe dioguna,
17:20
"I don't believe so I can't have community,
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"Ez dut sinesten, beraz, ezin dut komunitaterik izan,
17:22
so I'm cut off from morality,
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beraz, moraltasunetik kanpo nago,
17:24
so I can't go on a pilgrimage."
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eta ez naiteke erromesaldi batera joan ".
17:26
One wants to say, "Nonsense. Why not?"
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Erantzun nahiko nieke, "Txorakeriak. Zergatik ez?"
17:28
And that's really the spirit of my talk.
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Horixe da nire hitzaldiaren zentzua.
17:30
There's so much we can absorb.
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Gauza asko guregana ditzakegu.
17:32
Atheism shouldn't cut itself off from the rich sources of religion.
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Ateismoak ez dio erlijioaren iturri oparoei uko egin behar.
17:35
CA: It seems to me that there's plenty of people in the TED community
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CA: Iruditzen zait, TED komunitatean jende asko dagoela
17:38
who are atheists.
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ateo direnak.
17:40
But probably most people in the community
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Baina ziurrenik komunitateko gehienek ez dute uste
17:42
certainly don't think that religion is going away any time soon
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erlijioak epe laburrean desagertuko direnik
17:45
and want to find the language
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eta hizketa konstruktibo bat izateko
17:47
to have a constructive dialogue
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hizkuntza aurkitu nahiko dute
17:50
and to feel like we can actually talk to each other
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elkarrekin hitz egin ahal izateko gai garela sentitzeko
17:52
and at least share some things in common.
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eta gutxienez zenbait gauza elkarbanatzeko.
17:54
Are we foolish to be optimistic
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Inozoak al gara modu baikorrean ikusten dugunok
17:56
about the possibility of a world
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badela aukerarik, mundu batentzat
17:58
where, instead of religion being the great rallying cry
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non, erlijioa zaiketa eta gatazken guda-ohiua izan ordez
18:01
of divide and war,
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zubi moduko bat
18:03
that there could be bridging?
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izan daitekeen?
18:05
AB: No, we need to be polite about differences.
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AB: Ez, desberdintasunekiko adeitsu izan behar dugu.
18:08
Politeness is a much-overlooked virtue.
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Adeitasuna aintzakotzat hartzen ez den birtutea da.
18:10
It's seen as hypocrisy.
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Batzuek hipokrisia deitzen dute.
18:12
But we need to get to a stage when you're an atheist
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Baina iritsi beharko da unea, ateoa den norbaiti
18:14
and someone says, "Well you know, I did pray the other day,"
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beste batek "Aizu, lehengoan otoitz egin nuen" esaten dionean
18:17
you politely ignore it.
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ateoak adeitasunez ez entzuna egin
18:19
You move on.
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eta aurrera egin dezakeena.
18:21
Because you've agreed on 90 percent of things,
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Ideien %90a partekatzen dugulako,
18:24
because you have a shared view on so many things,
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ikuspuntu bera daukagulako gai askotan,
18:26
and you politely differ.
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eta adeitasunez, beste modu batera pentsatzen dugu.
18:28
And I think that's what the religious wars of late have ignored.
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Uste dut azkenaldiko guda erlijiosoek hori ez dutela ikusi.
18:32
They've ignored the possibility of harmonious disagreement.
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Ez dute ikusten jakin, desadostasun armoniko baten aukera.
18:36
CA: And finally, does this new thing that you're proposing
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CA: Amaitzeko, proposatutako gauza berri honek,
18:38
that's not a religion but something else,
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erlijioa ez dena baizik beste zerbait dena,
18:40
does it need a leader,
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buruzagia behar al du?
18:42
and are you volunteering to be the pope?
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eta zeure burua "aita santu" izateko eskaintzen ari al zara?
18:44
(Laughter)
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(Algarak)
18:46
AB: Well, one thing that we're all very suspicious of
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AB: Beno, mesfidantza sortzen digun zerbait bada
18:48
is individual leaders.
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banakakoen buruzagiak dira.
18:50
It doesn't need it.
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Honek ez du beharrik.
18:52
What I've tried to lay out is a framework
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Estruktura aurkezten ahalegindu naiz
18:54
and I'm hoping that people can just fill it in.
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eta espero dut jendeak beteko duela.
18:57
I've sketched a sort of broad framework.
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Estruktura orokor baten zirriborroa egin dut.
18:59
But wherever you are, as I say, if you're in the travel industry, do that travel bit.
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Baina, esan bezala, zuen eremua dena dela ere, bidaiagintzan diharduenak, egin dezala bidaien zati hori.
19:02
If you're in the communal industry, look at religion and do the communal bit.
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Auzolangintzan dabilenak, begira dezala erlijioa eta egin dezala auzolanaren zatia.
19:05
So it's a wiki project.
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Beraz, wiki proiektu bat da.
19:07
(Laughter)
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(Algarak)
19:09
CA: Alain, thank you for sparking many conversations later.
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CA: Alain, mila esker etorriko diren solasaldi ugariak piztu izanagatik.
19:12
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)

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