Atheism 2.0 | Alain de Botton

翻译人员: Kim Wang 校对人员: Dennis Guo

One of the most common ways of dividing the world

一个把人类分成两大部分很普遍的方法

is into those who believe

便是分为相信神的存在的一部分

and those who don't --

以及不相信宗教信仰的另一部分--

into the religious and the atheists.

宗教教徒和无神论者

And for the last decade or so,

在最近的十年中

it's been quite clear

对无神论者的定义

what being an atheist means.

已经是十分清楚的了

There have been some very vocal atheists

有些直话直说的无神论者

who've pointed out,

他们说

not just that religion is wrong,

宗教不仅仅是种欺骗

but that it's ridiculous.

它还非常荒谬

These people, many of whom have lived in North Oxford,

说这些话的人很多都住在牛津北部

have argued --

他们坚持 --

they've argued that believing in God

他们觉得相信上帝

is akin to believing in fairies

就像相信童话故事

and essentially that the whole thing

所以相信宗教根本就是

is a childish game.

一件很幼稚的事情

Now I think it's too easy.

我觉得那些定义太简单了

I think it's too easy

我觉得以那样的说法去排斥宗教

to dismiss the whole of religion that way.

实在是太肤浅了

And it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

那样的说法不具备说服力

And what I'd like to inaugurate today

我想提出一种以无神论者

is a new way of being an atheist --

来对待宗教的方式

if you like, a new version of atheism

我把那种方式

we could call Atheism 2.0.

叫做无神论2.0

Now what is Atheism 2.0?

那什么是无神论2.0呢

Well it starts from a very basic premise:

它有个最基本的前提

of course, there's no God.

就是相信上帝是不存在的

Of course, there are no deities or supernatural spirits

当然也没有神仙或者超自然的力量

or angels, etc.

或者天使等等

Now let's move on; that's not the end of the story,

这只是最基本的一个开始

that's the very, very beginning.

现在我们来更深层次地讨论一下

I'm interested in the kind of constituency

我对有些情况非常感兴趣

that thinks something along these lines:

有些人会说：

that thinks, "I can't believe in any of this stuff.

”我完全不相信这些宗教

I can't believe in the doctrines.

那些教义 那些学说

I don't think these doctrines are right.

我觉得它们全部都是假的

But," a very important but, "I love Christmas carols.

但是，” 一个非常重要的但是，“我会喜欢圣诞颂歌

I really like the art of Mantegna.

我非常喜欢曼坦那的艺术

I really like looking at old churches.

还非常喜欢那些古老的教堂

I really like turning the pages of the Old Testament."

而且还喜欢看旧约圣书”

Whatever it may be,

这样类似的情况还有很多

you know the kind of thing I'm talking about --

你懂我的意思吧

people who are attracted to the ritualistic side,

有些人喜欢宗教仪式

the moralistic, communal side of religion,

喜欢宗教里的道德 文化

but can't bear the doctrine.

但他们就是讨厌那些教条

Until now, these people have faced a rather unpleasant choice.

直到现在，他们一直都非常为难

It's almost as though either you accept the doctrine

要么你接受那些信仰

and then you can have all the nice stuff,

然后你可以享受那些文化 艺术 道德

or you reject the doctrine and

要么你排斥那些教条

you're living in some kind of spiritual wasteland

然后你就不能拥有那些崇高的灵魂

under the guidance of CNN and Walmart.

并且在CNN和沃尔玛的光辉下被遗弃

So that's a sort of tough choice.

所以那些人就很难选择

I don't think we have to make that choice.

但我觉得我们不必去做这些选择

I think there is an alternative.

我们可以有第三种选择

I think there are ways --

我觉得--

and I'm being both very respectful and completely impious --

而卧是无比的尊重但同时不虔诚的这么说--

of stealing from religions.

我觉得我们可以从宗教里剽窃一些文化

If you don't believe in a religion,

如果你不相信宗教

there's nothing wrong with picking and mixing,

把宗教和世俗的文化混一起没什么关系

with taking out the best sides of religion.

把自己享受宗教最好的一面也没事

And for me, atheism 2.0

对我来说 无神论2.0

is about both, as I say,

是对宗教充满敬意

a respectful and an impious way

而同时又不对神有所景仰

of going through religions and saying, "What here could we use?"

就像走进宗教的世界去寻找对我们有用的东西

The secular world is full of holes.

世俗的世界有许多缺点

We have secularized badly, I would argue.

我觉得许多人都被严重地世俗化了

And a thorough study of religion

而对宗教的学习研究

could give us all sorts of insights

可以帮助我们看破尘世

into areas of life that are not going too well.

帮助我们走出生活中的窘境

And I'd like to run through a few of these today.

现在我想具体地解释一下

I'd like to kick off by looking at education.

先从教育说起

Now education is a field

非宗教的人们十分相信

the secular world really believes in.

学习、教育的力量

When we think about how we're going to make the world a better place,

我们觉得教育使世界进步

we think education; that's where we put a lot of money.

我们还在教育上花了很多钱

Education is going to give us, not only commercial skills, industrial skills,

教育不仅仅给我们很多本领，例如商业以及工业技术，

it's also going to make us better people.

还让我们变成更加优秀的人

You know the kind of thing a commencement address is, and graduation ceremonies,

像是那些开学典礼或者毕业典礼的演讲

those lyrical claims

那些话语都告诉我们

that education, the process of education -- particularly higher education --

教育的过程 特别是高等教育

will make us into nobler and better human beings.

会使我们变成高尚优秀的人才

That's a lovely idea.

那是个很好的想法

Interesting where it came from.

这想法的起源也很有意思

In the early 19th century,

在十九世纪初的西欧

church attendance in Western Europe

去教堂的人急速减少

started sliding down very, very sharply, and people panicked.

大家也变得紧张起来

They asked themselves the following question.

他们问自己

They said, where are people going to find the morality,

人们要去哪里寻找好品德

where are they going to find guidance,

去哪里寻找指引

and where are they going to find sources of consolation?

又去哪里去寻找慰藉呢

And influential voices came up with one answer.

那些有影响力的人回答道：

They said culture.

文化

It's to culture that we should look

我们要在我们的文明中

for guidance, for consolation, for morality.

寻找指引 慰藉 和好品德

Let's look to the plays of Shakespeare,

去看莎士比亚的剧本

the dialogues of Plato, the novels of Jane Austen.

柏拉图的对话 简.奥斯汀的小说

In there, we'll find a lot of the truths

我们可以找到很多真理

that we might previously have found in the Gospel of Saint John.

那些真理很可能也在<约翰福音>中出现过

Now I think that's a very beautiful idea and a very true idea.

我觉得这想法是非常美妙真实的

They wanted to replace scripture with culture.

他们想用文化积淀来代替圣典

And that's a very plausible idea.

这也是非常有道理的

It's also an idea that we have forgotten.

但这也是一个我们已经忘却了的想法

If you went to a top university --

如果你去顶尖学府

let's say you went to Harvard or Oxford or Cambridge --

像是哈佛 牛津 或者剑桥

and you said, "I've come here

然后你对他们说

because I'm in search of morality, guidance and consolation;

"我想找到指引 慰藉 和道德"

I want to know how to live,"

"我还想知道怎么好好生活"

they would show you the way to the insane asylum.

那些大学会让你去神经病医院

This is simply not what our grandest and best institutes of higher learning

品德 慰藉 指引根本不是那些大学

are in the business of.

所管辖的

Why? They don't think we need it.

为什么呢 因为他们觉得我们不需要那些

They don't think we are in an urgent need of assistance.

他们觉得我们不需要援助

They see us as adults, rational adults.

他们觉得我们是有逻辑讲道理的大人

What we need is information.

他们觉得我们只需要信息

We need data, we don't need help.

只需要资料 根本不需要帮助

Now religions start from a very different place indeed.

而宗教就完全不一样了

All religions, all major religions,

所有主流的宗教

at various points call us children.

都把教徒看成是个孩子

And like children,

就像孩子一样 宗教相信

they believe that we are in severe need of assistance.

我们十分急切地需要他们的援助

We're only just holding it together.

我们已经在了崩溃的边缘

Perhaps this is just me, maybe you.

可能只有我是这样 或许你也是这样

But anyway, we're only just holding it together.

但不管怎样 我们都在边缘线上

And we need help. Of course, we need help.

而且我们无疑需要帮助

And so we need guidance and we need didactic learning.

所以我们需要指引 需要言教

You know, in the 18th century in the U.K.,

在十八世纪的英国

the greatest preacher, greatest religious preacher, was a man called John Wesley,

有个最伟大的传教士叫做约翰.韦斯利

who went up and down this country delivering sermons,

他在全英国到处传教

advising people how they could live.

建议人们怎样好好生活

He delivered sermons on the duties of parents to their children

他传道说教 告诉父母如何对待小孩

and children to their parents,

告诉孩子如何对待父母

the duties of the rich to the poor and the poor to the rich.

也告诉富人穷人如何相互对待

He was trying to tell people how they should live

他用说教的方式

through the medium of sermons,

去告诉大家如何去生活

the classic medium of delivery of religions.

这是说教最传统的方式

Now we've given up with the idea of sermons.

现在我们摒弃了说教的方式

If you said to a modern liberal individualist,

如果你对一个现代自由的个人主义者说

"Hey, how about a sermon?"

"嘿 去布道怎么样"

they'd go, "No, no. I don't need one of those.

他们会说 "我才不要呢"

I'm an independent, individual person."

"我是个独立自主的个体"

What's the difference between a sermon

但是宗教里的布道和平时现代的讲课演讲

and our modern, secular mode of delivery, the lecture?

到底有什么区别呢

Well a sermon wants to change your life

宗教里的传教想改变你的生活

and a lecture wants to give you a bit of information.

而一个演讲只是给你一些信息资料

And I think we need to get back to that sermon tradition.

我觉得我们有必要找回传教的习俗

The tradition of sermonizing is hugely valuable,

这个习俗是非常有用的

because we are in need of guidance,

因为我们都需要指引

morality and consolation --

道德 和慰藉

and religions know that.

而宗教都知道如何帮助我们

Another point about education:

关于教育 还有一点

we tend to believe in the modern secular world

在非宗教世界里 我们开始相信

that if you tell someone something once, they'll remember it.

我们告诉别人某件事情一遍 他们就可以完全记住

Sit them in a classroom, tell them about Plato

让他们坐在教室里 在20岁时教他们柏拉图的哲学

at the age of 20, send them out for a career in management consultancy for 40 years,

然后让他们去当管理顾问当40年

and that lesson will stick with them.

而他们也不会忘记柏拉图的哲学

Religions go, "Nonsense.

而宗教会说:"胡说"

You need to keep repeating the lesson 10 times a day.

"那道理必须一天重复10次才可以"

So get on your knees and repeat it."

"所以现在你就跪下好好复习"

That's what all religions tell us:

这是宗教告诉我们的道理

"Get on you knees and repeat it 10 or 20 or 15 times a day."

"跪下然后每天复习10遍 20遍 15遍"

Otherwise our minds are like sieves.

不然我们很快就会忘记

So religions are cultures of repetition.

所以宗教培养我们重复、温习的美德

They circle the great truths again and again and again.

宗教重复伟大的真理一遍又一遍

We associate repetition with boredom.

我们会觉得重复就是无聊

"Give us the new," we're always saying.

我们一直说:"说点新鲜的"

"The new is better than the old."

"新的总是比旧的好"

If I said to you, "Okay, we're not going to have new TED.

如果我对你说 "好吧 TED视频都不会更新了"

We're just going to run through all the old ones

"我们就看那些旧的视频"

and watch them five times because they're so true.

"每天看五次 因为那些视频是在是太棒了"

We're going to watch Elizabeth Gilbert five times

"我们每天看伊莉莎白.吉尔伯托五次"

because what she says is so clever," you'd feel cheated.

"因为她的想法实在太聪明了" 你会觉得你被骗了

Not so if you're adopting a religious mindset.

但如果你信仰宗教 你就不会这样想

The other things that religions do

宗教还会帮助你

is to arrange time.

安排时间

All the major religions give us calendars.

所有主流宗教都会有特定的日历

What is a calendar?

什么是日历?

A calendar is a way of making sure that across the year

日历确保你在整一年里

you will bump into certain very important ideas.

你会遭遇一些的重大想法

In the Catholic chronology, Catholic calendar,

在天主教日历中

at the end of March you will think about St. Jerome

在三月月底你会想到圣杰罗姆

and his qualities of humility and goodness

想到他的谦卑和善良

and his generosity to the poor.

和他对穷人的慷慨

You won't do that by accident; you will do that because you are guided to do that.

你不会碰巧想到他 你想到他因为你被引导了

Now we don't think that way.

现在我们不这样想

In the secular world we think, "If an idea is important, I'll bump into it.

在非宗教世界里 我们觉得 "我会毫无预兆就想到一个好主意"

I'll just come across it."

"我是偶然想到的"

Nonsense, says the religious world view.

宗教人士会说 "胡扯"

Religious view says we need calendars, we need to structure time,

宗教人士觉得我们需要日历 需要安排好时间

we need to synchronize encounters.

我们需要同步好想法和时间

This comes across also

这还帮助宗教们

in the way in which religions set up rituals

安排传统仪式

around important feelings.

和感受到特定的感情

Take the Moon. It's really important to look at the Moon.

就像月亮 看月亮是非常重要的

You know, when you look at the Moon,

你看月亮的时候

you think, "I'm really small. What are my problems?"

你会想 "我真渺小 我有什么问题呢"

It sets things into perspective, etc., etc.

这帮助你从不同角度看世界

We should all look at the Moon a bit more often. We don't.

我们应该经常赏月 可是我们不这么做

Why don't we? Well there's nothing to tell us, "Look at the Moon."

为什么呢 因为光看月亮不会给我们什么信息

But if you're a Zen Buddhist in the middle of September,

但如果你是个信禅的 在九月中旬

you will be ordered out of your home, made to stand on a canonical platform

你会去一个专门的站台上

and made to celebrate the festival of Tsukimi,

去庆祝月见节日

where you will be given poems to read

你会吟诗去赞赏月亮

in honor of the Moon and the passage of time

你会阅读关于时间的文章

and the frailty of life that it should remind us of.

你会被重新提醒关于生命的脆弱

You'll be handed rice cakes.

你会收到米糕

And the Moon and the reflection on the Moon

而月亮和它的倒影会让你

will have a secure place in your heart.

感到内心中的一片净土

That's very good.

这是很好的事情

The other thing that religions are really aware of

宗教还注重另外一件事情

is: speak well --

就是去好好说话发言

I'm not doing a very good job of this here --

虽然我的演讲不是很出色

but oratory, oratory is absolutely key to religions.

但是演讲术对宗教来说是非常关键的

In the secular world, you can come through the university system and be a lousy speaker

在非宗教世界里 你仍然可以有个很好的工作

and still have a great career.

即使你演讲说的很糟糕

But the religious world doesn't think that way.

但是在宗教世界里不是这样的

What you're saying needs to be backed up

你说的话必须要有说服力

by a really convincing way of saying it.

去支持你的论点

So if you go to an African-American Pentecostalist church

如果你去一个在美国南部的非洲美国

in the American South

五旬节教会

and you listen to how they talk,

你会知道他们的演讲

my goodness, they talk well.

是如何出色

After every convincing point, people will go, "Amen, amen, amen."

每在说得好的地方 大家会说"阿门 阿门 阿门"

At the end of a really rousing paragraph, they'll all stand up,

在最后一段振奋人心的地方 大家都会站起来

and they'll go, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Christ, thank you Savior."

他们说 "谢谢你耶稣 谢谢上帝 谢谢救世主"

If we were doing it like they do it --

如果我们像他们那样做--

let's not do it, but if we were to do it --

好吧算了 但如果我们真的做了--

I would tell you something like, "Culture should replace scripture."

我会告诉你们 文明文化应该代替教典

And you would go, "Amen, amen, amen."

然后你们会说 "阿门 阿门 阿门"

And at the end of my talk, you would all stand up

我演讲完的时候 你们应该都站起来

and you would go, "Thank you Plato, thank you Shakespeare, thank you Jane Austen."

然后说 "谢谢你柏拉图 谢谢莎士比亚 谢谢简.奥斯汀"

And we'd know that we had a real rhythm going.

我们都知道你们会说的很好

All right, all right. We're getting there. We're getting there.

好了 快说到重点了

(Applause)

(掌声)

The other thing that religions know is we're not just brains,

宗教还知道我们人类不仅仅有智慧

we are also bodies.

我们还有躯体

And when they teach us a lesson,

所以他们通过身体

they do it via the body.

来教会我们道理

So for example,

举个例子

take the Jewish idea of forgiveness.

像是犹太人懂得宽容

Jews are very interested in forgiveness

他们很喜欢饶恕宽让

and how we should start anew and start afresh.

也喜欢重新有个崭新的生活

They don't just deliver us sermons on this.

他们不仅仅通过传教来告诉我们

They don't just give us books or words about this.

也不仅仅给我们书本去学习

They tell us to have a bath.

他们告诉我们去沐浴

So in Orthodox Jewish communities, every Friday you go to a Mikveh.

在正统的犹太社会里 每个星期五他们都去一个池子

You immerse yourself in the water,

让身体浸没在水里

and a physical action backs up a philosophical idea.

身体上的动作支撑着哲学思想

We don't tend to do that.

而世俗的人们不这么做

Our ideas are in one area and our behavior with our bodies is in another.

我们的身体和智慧在不同的世界里

Religions are fascinating in the way they try and combine the two.

而宗教却把智慧和躯体结合起来

Let's look at art now.

现在看看我们的艺术

Now art is something that in the secular world,

在世俗的世界里 我们认为艺术是崇高的

we think very highly of. We think art is really, really important.

我们认为艺术是非常重要的

A lot of our surplus wealth goes to museums, etc.

许多盈余的钱财都花在了艺术馆里

We sometimes hear it said

有时候我们听到有人说

that museums are our new cathedrals, or our new churches.

博物馆是我们新的教堂

You've heard that saying.

你们一定听过这句话

Now I think that the potential is there,

我觉得博物馆是有潜力成为新的教堂

but we've completely let ourselves down.

但是我们完全没有那样去做

And the reason we've let ourselves down

我们让自己失望的原因

is that we're not properly studying

是我们没有适当地学习宗教的艺术

how religions handle art.

是我们没有适当地学习宗教的艺术

The two really bad ideas that are hovering in the modern world

在当代世界有两个特别糟糕的想法

that inhibit our capacity to draw strength from art:

他们抑制了我们在艺术里获得力量的本领

The first idea is that art should be for art's sake --

第一 艺术就为了艺术而存在 --

a ridiculous idea --

说起来很荒谬 --

an idea that art should live in a hermetic bubble

艺术应该在一个封闭的世界里存在

and should not try to do anything with this troubled world.

不应该去打扰我们世俗的纠纷

I couldn't disagree more.

我十分十分不赞同这个想法

The other thing that we believe is that art shouldn't explain itself,

另外 我们还相信艺术不应该被诠释

that artists shouldn't say what they're up to,

艺术家们不应该解释他们到底在干什么

because if they said it, it might destroy the spell

因为如果他们说了 艺术就没有任何魔力了

and we might find it too easy.

而且我们还觉得艺术没什么深度

That's why a very common feeling when you're in a museum --

这就是为什么在艺术馆我们通常会感受到的--

let's admit it --

承认吧--

is, "I don't know what this is about."

我们会想 "我完全不知道这作品是什么东西"

But if we're serious people, we don't admit to that.

但如果我们是严肃的人 我们是不会承认的

But that feeling of puzzlement is structural

但正是那样的感觉构造了

to contemporary art.

当代艺术

Now religions have a much saner attitude to art.

现在宗教对艺术有了很多理智的态度

They have no trouble telling us what art is about.

他们可以很简单告诉我们什么是艺术

Art is about two things in all the major faiths.

在主流的信仰中 艺术无非关于两种东西

Firstly, it's trying to remind you

第一 艺术告诉你

of what there is to love.

这世界有爱

And secondly, it's trying to remind you

第二 艺术提醒你

of what there is to fear and to hate.

这世界也有恐惧和憎恨

And that's what art is.

而这就是艺术

Art is a visceral encounter with the most important ideas of your faith.

艺术表达了你内心最重要的信仰

So as you walk around a church,

所以当你走进教堂

or a mosque or a cathedral,

或者走进清真寺的时候

what you're trying to imbibe, what you're imbibing is,

通过你的五官

through your eyes, through your senses,

你最想感受的是那些真理

truths that have otherwise come to you through your mind.

那些掠过你思想中的真理

Essentially it's propaganda.

本质上那是宗教的宣传

Rembrandt is a propagandist

在基督教看来

in the Christian view.

伦勃朗是个宣传者

Now the word "propaganda" sets off alarm bells.

现在 "宣传"一词让人们警觉

We think of Hitler, we think of Stalin. Don't, necessarily.

我们想到希特勒和斯大林 但其实没有这个必要

Propaganda is a manner of being didactic in honor of something.

这只是一个宣扬某种东西的手段

And if that thing is good, there's no problem with it at all.

如果宣扬的东西是有益处的 那这手段也没什么问题

My view is that museums should take a leaf out of the book of religions.

我觉得艺术馆应该向宗教学习

And they should make sure that when you walk into a museum --

艺术馆应该确保 当游客走进馆内时候--

if I was a museum curator,

如果我是馆长

I would make a room for love, a room for generosity.

我会专门为爱 为慷慨而准备特定的展览

All works of art are talking to us about things.

所有的艺术品都有相同的主题

And if we were able to arrange spaces

如果有更多的空间

where we could come across works

我们可以更深刻地了解艺术品

where we would be told, use these works of art

用这些艺术

to cement these ideas in your mind,

来让美好的品德在脑海中变得更加深刻

we would get a lot more out of art.

我们会从艺术中学到更多

Art would pick up the duty that it used to have

艺术会让我们重新肩负起曾经被摒弃的责任

and that we've neglected because of certain mis-founded ideas.

那些因为误导而被忽视的责任

Art should be one of the tools

艺术应该是一种工具

by which we improve our society.

一种能让社会进步的工具

Art should be didactic.

艺术也应该是教化的

Let's think of something else.

现在想想另外的东西

The people in the modern world, in the secular world,

想想那些在现代世俗的人们

who are interested in matters of the spirit,

其中有些人热衷追寻灵魂

in matters of the mind,

喜欢崇高的思想

in higher soul-like concerns,

也热衷于深层次的灵性

tend to be isolated individuals.

那些人通常都是孤单的

They're poets, they're philosophers, they're photographers, they're filmmakers.

他们是诗人 哲学家 摄影师 或是电影制作人

And they tend to be on their own.

他们凭自己的力量生存下去

They're our cottage industries. They are vulnerable, single people.

他们独立完成工作 他们脆弱 孤单

And they get depressed and they get sad on their own.

没人分担他们的痛苦不安

And they don't really change much.

然而他们不会做多少改变

Now think about religions, think about organized religions.

现在想想那些有组织的宗教

What do organized religions do?

那些有组织的宗教干什么的呢

They group together, they form institutions.

他们聚在一起 他们创造机构

And that has all sorts of advantages.

这些都很有益处

First of all, scale, might.

第一 他们有规模和力量

The Catholic Church pulled in 97 billion dollars last year

据华尔街日报

according to the Wall Street Journal.

天主教教堂去年筹了97亿美元

These are massive machines.

这些都是有权有势的机构

They're collaborative, they're branded, they're multinational,

他们相互合作 有好名望 跨国

and they're highly disciplined.

他们严谨纪律

These are all very good qualities.

那些都是很优秀的品质

We recognize them in relation to corporations.

我们还认同他们像个企业

And corporations are very like religions in many ways,

公司企业和宗教有些相似之处

except they're right down at the bottom of the pyramid of needs.

不过企业只提供最基本的物质

They're selling us shoes and cars.

企业给我们鞋子和汽车

Whereas the people who are selling us the higher stuff --

但是像治疗师 诗人那些人

the therapists, the poets --

他们给我们更高层次的东西

are on their own and they have no power,

但是他们是独立的 没有强大的权势

they have no might.

他们没有力量

So religions are the foremost example

所以宗教就是个最棒的例子

of an institution that is fighting for the things of the mind.

告诉我们一个机构对于追思来说是很重要的

Now we may not agree with what religions are trying to teach us,

我们可能不同意宗教所传授的教条

but we can admire the institutional way

但是我们可以赞赏他们组织

in which they're doing it.

起来的方法

Books alone, books written by lone individuals,

个人作家所写的书本身

are not going to change anything.

是不会带来什么改变的

We need to group together.

我们需要团结在一起

If you want to change the world, you have to group together, you have to be collaborative.

如果我们想改变世界 我们必须团结奋斗

And that's what religions do.

而这就是宗教所做的

They are multinational, as I say,

我说过他们是跨国的

they are branded, they have a clear identity,

他们有名有望 他们有明确的一致性

so they don't get lost in a busy world.

所以他们不会在繁乱的世界中迷失

That's something we can learn from.

这是值得我们学习的

I want to conclude.

最后

Really what I want to say

我想说的是

is for many of you who are operating in a range of different fields,

你们这些来自各行各业的人们

there is something to learn from the example of religion --

你们绝对可以从宗教中学习到些东西

even if you don't believe any of it.

即使你一点都不相信宗教的信仰

If you're involved in anything that's communal,

如果你生活在社会里

that involves lots of people getting together,

如果你和很多人接触

there are things for you in religion.

宗教里绝对有对你有用的东西

If you're involved, say, in a travel industry in any way,

如果你和旅游业有关

look at pilgrimage.

去参考朝圣

Look very closely at pilgrimage.

仔细地去学习研究朝圣

We haven't begun to scratch the surface

我们根本还不知道

of what travel could be

旅行到底是怎么一回事

because we haven't looked at what religions do with travel.

因为我们从来不学习宗教人士是如何旅行的

If you're in the art world,

如果你玩艺术

look at the example of what religions are doing with art.

去参考宗教人士是怎么对待艺术的

And if you're an educator in any way,

如果你是在教育界里

again, look at how religions are spreading ideas.

去参考宗教人士是如何传播思想的

You may not agree with the ideas,

你可能不喜欢那些思想

but my goodness, they're highly effective mechanisms for doing so.

那他们传播的方式真的是超级有效

So really my concluding point

所以我最后想说的是

is you may not agree with religion,

你可以不认同宗教

but at the end of the day,

但是最后我想告诉你们

religions are so subtle, so complicated,

宗教很微妙 很复杂

so intelligent in many ways

也非常富有智慧

that they're not fit to be abandoned to the religious alone;

我们不应该否定全部关于宗教的事情

they're for all of us.

每个人都能从宗教中学到东西

Thank you very much.

谢谢大家

(Applause)

(掌声)

Chris Anderson: Now this is actually a courageous talk,

CA: 这真是一个无畏的演讲

because you're kind of setting up yourself in some ways

在某些地方你似乎把自己

to be ridiculed in some quarters.

当成了一个笑柄让大家嘲弄啊

AB: You can get shot by both sides.

阿兰： 不管怎么说我都有可能被批评

You can get shot by the hard-headed atheists,

我可以被固执的无神论者批评

and you can get shot by those who fully believe.

也可以被那些宗教人士扼杀

CA: Incoming missiles from North Oxford at any moment.

任何时候都会被北牛津的导弹打趴

AB: Indeed.

阿瑟： 是啊是啊

CA: But you left out one aspect of religion

CA: 但是你漏掉了宗教的一个方面

that a lot of people might say

很多人可能会说

your agenda could borrow from,

能借你的议程

which is this sense --

这是种感觉--

that's actually probably the most important thing to anyone who's religious --

可能是对信仰宗教人最重要的感觉 --

of spiritual experience,

精神的体验

of some kind of connection

某种与比你更伟大的东西

with something that's bigger than you are.

的连接

Is there any room for that experience in Atheism 2.0?

在你的无神论2.0中 有没有类似的体验呢

AB: Absolutely. I, like many of you, meet people

阿兰: 当然啦 我像你们一样遇到很多人

who say things like, "But isn't there something bigger than us,

他们说 "难道世界上不存在什么

something else?"

比我们人类更伟大的东西吗?"

And I say, "Of course." And they say, "So aren't you sort of religious?"

我说 "当然有啦" 他们说 "那你就是认同宗教的咯?"

And I go, "No." Why does that sense of mystery,

我说 "不是啊" 为什么这些神秘的感觉

that sense of the dizzying scale of the universe,

被宇宙的伟大所触动的感觉

need to be accompanied by a mystical feeling?

一定要和神扯上关系呢

Science and just observation

科学和观察可以给我们那种感觉

gives us that feeling without it,

这和神没有关系

so I don't feel the need.

所以我不觉得有相信神的必要

The universe is large and we are tiny,

宇宙很大 而我们很渺小

without the need for further religious superstructure.

这不需要超自然学说来解释吧

So one can have so-called spiritual moments

所以一个人可以有精神上的体验

without belief in the spirit.

即使他不相信有灵魂这东西

CA: Actually, let me just ask a question.

CA: 好吧 现在让我问个问题

How many people here would say

在场观众们有多少是觉得

that religion is important to them?

宗教对他们是非常重要的呢

Is there an equivalent process

有没有一种类似的说法

by which there's a sort of bridge

你们觉得他刚才说的和你们想说的

between what you're talking about and what you would say to them?

有种类似的地方呢

AB: I would say that there are many, many gaps in secular life

阿兰: 我觉得世俗的世界是有许多缺点的

and these can be plugged.

但是那些缺点是可以被弥补的

It's not as though, as I try to suggest,

但这不是说

it's not as though either you have religion

要么你相信宗教

and then you have to accept all sorts of things,

然后你就要相信宗教所有的教条

or you don't have religion

要么你不相信宗教

and then you're cut off from all these very good things.

然后拒绝一切宗教带来的益处

It's so sad that we constantly say,

很可悲的是我们经常说

"I don't believe so I can't have community,

"我不信教所以我不能有社群

so I'm cut off from morality,

所以我没有好的道德

so I can't go on a pilgrimage."

所以我不能去朝圣"

One wants to say, "Nonsense. Why not?"

有人会说 "胡扯 为什么不呢"

And that's really the spirit of my talk.

这正是我演说的重点

There's so much we can absorb.

宗教有很多可取之处

Atheism shouldn't cut itself off from the rich sources of religion.

相信无神论不应该完全无视宗教里的内涵

CA: It seems to me that there's plenty of people in the TED community

CA: 似乎在TED群体中

who are atheists.

有很多人是无神论的

But probably most people in the community

但是很多人可能都认为

certainly don't think that religion is going away any time soon

宗教是不可能在短时间内消失的

and want to find the language

他们还想找到适合的方法

to have a constructive dialogue

去建设性地谈论问题

and to feel like we can actually talk to each other

他们还觉得我们彼此可以互相沟通

and at least share some things in common.

或者至少有些共同点

Are we foolish to be optimistic

对于这样乐观的想法 我们是不是太傻了呢

about the possibility of a world

那些关于神的隔阂、争论

where, instead of religion being the great rallying cry

是不是有彼此了解的可能性呢

of divide and war,

持有两种学说的人

that there could be bridging?

是否有可能彼此沟通呢

AB: No, we need to be polite about differences.

阿兰: 不一定 我们只是需要礼貌地对待另一方

Politeness is a much-overlooked virtue.

有时候礼貌都被我们忽视了

It's seen as hypocrisy.

有时候我们觉得那是虚伪

But we need to get to a stage when you're an atheist

如果你是个无神论者 而有个人对你说

and someone says, "Well you know, I did pray the other day,"

"你知道嘛 那天我祈祷了"

you politely ignore it.

你应该礼貌地无视这话

You move on.

该干嘛干嘛去

Because you've agreed on 90 percent of things,

因为你们两个可以认同90%的事情

because you have a shared view on so many things,

因为你们的世界有很多相似的地方

and you politely differ.

你们只是稍微有那么一点不同 但不伤和气

And I think that's what the religious wars of late have ignored.

我认为近年的有无神的争论忽视了这点

They've ignored the possibility of harmonious disagreement.

他们忘记了人们即使不同也能和谐地在一起

CA: And finally, does this new thing that you're proposing

CA: 最后 你说的无神论2.0

that's not a religion but something else,

它本身不是个宗教

does it need a leader,

但它需要一个领袖吗

and are you volunteering to be the pope?

而你又是否愿意当这个领袖呢

(Laughter)

(笑声)

AB: Well, one thing that we're all very suspicious of

阿兰: 好吧 我们都对个人领袖

is individual leaders.

非常警惕

It doesn't need it.

但无神论不需要领袖

What I've tried to lay out is a framework

我所说的只是一个框架理论

and I'm hoping that people can just fill it in.

而我希望大家可以自由发挥实践

I've sketched a sort of broad framework.

我只是大概地勾勒出一个结构

But wherever you are, as I say, if you're in the travel industry, do that travel bit.

那不管你是谁 就像如果你是搞旅游的 那就专门钻研宗教中的旅游

If you're in the communal industry, look at religion and do the communal bit.

如果你在社群里工作 那就专门钻研宗教里的社群方面

So it's a wiki project.

所以这就像维基百科一样

(Laughter)

(笑声)

CA: Alain, thank you for sparking many conversations later.

CA: 阿兰 谢谢你精彩的回答

(Applause)

(掌声)