Alison Gopnik: What do babies think?

Prevodilac: Ivana Gadjanski Lektor: Ivana Korom

What is going on

Šta se dešava

in this baby's mind?

u glavi ove bebe?

If you'd asked people this 30 years ago,

Da ste ovo pitali ljude pre 30 godina

most people, including psychologists,

većina, uključujući i psihologe,

would have said that this baby was irrational,

bi odgovorila da je ova beba iracionalna,

illogical, egocentric --

ne razmišlja logično, egocentrična je

that he couldn't take the perspective of another person

da ta beba ne može da shvati perspektivu neke druge osobe

or understand cause and effect.

ili da razume uzrok i posledicu.

In the last 20 years,

U poslednjih 20 godina,

developmental science has completely overturned that picture.

nauka o razviću je potpuno preokrenula ovakvu predstavu.

So in some ways,

Tako da, na neki način,

we think that this baby's thinking

mi sada smatramo da način razmišljanja ove bebe

is like the thinking of the most brilliant scientists.

liči na to kako razmišljaju najbriljantniji naučnici.

Let me give you just one example of this.

Evo da vam navedem samo jedan primer.

One thing that this baby could be thinking about,

Jedna od stvari o kojoj ova beba možda razmišlja,

that could be going on in his mind,

nešto što joj pada na pamet,

is trying to figure out

je da se pita o čemu razmišlja ova druga beba,

what's going on in the mind of that other baby.

šta to pada na pamet toj drugoj bebi.

After all, one of the things that's hardest for all of us to do

Na kraju krajeva, svima nama je jako teško

is to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling.

da procenimo o čemu drugi ljudi misle i šta osećaju.

And maybe the hardest thing of all

A možda je najteže od svega

is to figure out that what other people think and feel

shvatiti da ono što drugi ljudi misle i osećaju

isn't actually exactly like what we think and feel.

u stvari nije potpuno identično onome što mi mislimo i osećamo.

Anyone who's followed politics can testify

Svako ko prati politiku može da potvrdi

to how hard that is for some people to get.

da je nekim ljudima vrlo teško da ovo prihvate.

We wanted to know

Mi smo želeli da vidimo

if babies and young children

da li bebe i mala deca

could understand this really profound thing about other people.

mogu da shvate ovu vrlo dubokoumnu činjenicu o drugim ljudima.

Now the question is: How could we ask them?

Sada se postavlja pitanje: Kako da to pitamo bebe?

Babies, after all, can't talk,

Jer bebe, ipak, ne mogu da govore,

and if you ask a three year-old

i ako pitate dete od tri godine

to tell you what he thinks,

da vam kaže o čemu razmišlja,

what you'll get is a beautiful stream of consciousness monologue

dobićete predivan monolog - bujicu toka svesti

about ponies and birthdays and things like that.

o ponijima i rođendanima i takvim stvarima.

So how do we actually ask them the question?

Ali kako da im, u stvari, postavimo naše pitanje?

Well it turns out that the secret was broccoli.

Pa, ispostavilo se da je tajna u brokoliju.

What we did -- Betty Rapacholi, who was one of my students, and I --

Ono što smo mi, Beti Rapakoli, jedna od mojih studentkinja, i ja uradile --

was actually to give the babies two bowls of food:

bilo je da bebama pokažemo dve činije sa hranom:

one bowl of raw broccoli

jedna činija sa presnim brokolijem

and one bowl of delicious goldfish crackers.

i jedna činija sa ukusnim krekerima u obliku zlatnih ribica.

Now all of the babies, even in Berkley,

E sad, sve bebe, čak i u Berkliju,

like the crackers and don't like the raw broccoli.

vole krekere, a ne vole presan brokoli.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

But then what Betty did

Ali tada je Beti uradila sledeće:

was to take a little taste of food from each bowl.

uzela je mali zalogaj hrane iz svake činije.

And she would act as if she liked it or she didn't.

I onda je pokazala da li joj se to sviđa ili ne.

So half the time, she acted

I tako je, prvo, pokazivala

as if she liked the crackers and didn't like the broccoli --

da joj se sviđaju krekeri, a da joj se brokoli ne sviđa --

just like a baby and any other sane person.

baš kao i bebi ili bilo kojoj drugoj normalnoj osobi.

But half the time,

Ali, zatim je

what she would do is take a little bit of the broccoli

uzela komadić brokolija

and go, "Mmmmm, broccoli.

i uradila sledeće: "Mmmmm, brokoli.

I tasted the broccoli. Mmmmm."

Pojela sam brokoli. Mmmmm."

And then she would take a little bit of the crackers,

A onda bi uzela malo krekera,

and she'd go, "Eww, yuck, crackers.

i napravila bi izraz lica "Fuj, bljak, krekeri.

I tasted the crackers. Eww, yuck."

Pojela sam krekere. Fuuj, bljak."

So she'd act as if what she wanted

Znači, ponašala se kao da je ono što ona želi

was just the opposite of what the babies wanted.

potpuno suprotno od onoga što su bebe želele.

We did this with 15 and 18 month-old babies.

Uradile smo ovo sa bebama od 15 i 18 meseci.

And then she would simply put her hand out and say,

Zatim bi Beti ispružila ruku i rekla,

"Can you give me some?"

Hoćeš li da mi daš malo?

So the question is: What would the baby give her,

Znači pitanje je: Šta će joj beba dati,

what they liked or what she liked?

ono što se sviđa bebi ili ono što se sviđa Beti?

And the remarkable thing was that 18 month-old babies,

I zadivljujuća stvar je bila da su bebe od 18 meseci,

just barely walking and talking,

koje jedva da hodaju i govore,

would give her the crackers if she liked the crackers,

davale Beti krekere ako su joj se svideli krekeri,

but they would give her the broccoli if she liked the broccoli.

a brokoli, ako joj se sviđao brokoli.

On the other hand,

Sa druge strane,

15 month-olds would stare at her for a long time

bebe od 15 meseci bi samo vrlo dugo gledale u nju

if she acted as if she liked the broccoli,

ako bi se ponašala kao da joj se brokoli baš sviđa,

like they couldn't figure this out.

kao da to nisu mogle baš da shvate.

But then after they stared for a long time,

I onda, pošto su dugo gledale u Beti,

they would just give her the crackers,

ipak bi joj dale krekere,

what they thought everybody must like.

jer su smatrale da to svako voli.

So there are two really remarkable things about this.

Dakle, imamo dva zadivljujuća zaključka u vezi sa ovim.

The first one is that these little 18 month-old babies

Prvi je da su ove male bebe od 18 meseci

have already discovered

već otkrile

this really profound fact about human nature,

ovu vrlo dubokoumnu činjenicu o ljudskoj prirodi,

that we don't always want the same thing.

da mi ne želimo uvek iste stvari.

And what's more, they felt that they should actually do things

I štaviše, te bebe su osetile da zaista treba da urade nešto

to help other people get what they wanted.

što će pomoći drugim ljudima da dobiju ono što žele.

Even more remarkably though,

Ono što je još veće iznenađenje je

the fact that 15 month-olds didn't do this

činjenica da bebe od 15 meseci nisu to radile

suggests that these 18 month-olds had learned

što ukazuje da su bebe od 18 meseci naučile

this deep, profound fact about human nature

ovu duboko ukorenjenu činjenicu o ljudskoj prirodi

in the three months from when they were 15 months old.

tokom tri meseca otkad su imale 15 meseci.

So children both know more and learn more

Dakle, deca i znaju više i uče više

than we ever would have thought.

nego što smo ikada i pretpostavljali.

And this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of studies over the last 20 years

I ovo je samo jedno od stotina i stotina istraživanja tokom poslednjih 20 godina

that's actually demonstrated it.

koja su to zaista i pokazala.

The question you might ask though is:

Pitanje koje biste mogli da postavite je:

Why do children learn so much?

Zašto deca toliko mnogo uče?

And how is it possible for them to learn so much

I šta im omogućava da tako mnogo nauče

in such a short time?

za tako kratko vreme?

I mean, after all, if you look at babies superficially,

Mislim, zaista, ako bebe gledate površno,

they seem pretty useless.

izgledaju prilično beskorisno.

And actually in many ways, they're worse than useless,

I zapravo, na razne načine, one su i više nego beskorisne,

because we have to put so much time and energy

jer mi moramo da uložimo mnogo vremena i energije

into just keeping them alive.

samo da bismo ih održali u životu.

But if we turn to evolution

Ali, ako se obratimo evoluciji

for an answer to this puzzle

za odgovor na ovu zagonetku

of why we spend so much time

zašto provodimo toliko vremena

taking care of useless babies,

brinući se o beskorisnim bebama,

it turns out that there's actually an answer.

ispostavlja se da, zapravo, postoji odgovor.

If we look across many, many different species of animals,

Ako pogledamo mnoge, mnoge različite vrste životinja,

not just us primates,

ne samo nas primate,

but also including other mammals, birds,

već takođe i druge sisare, ptice,

even marsupials

čak i torbare

like kangaroos and wombats,

kao što su kenguri i vombati,

it turns out that there's a relationship

pokazuje se da postoji odnos

between how long a childhood a species has

između toga koliko dugo detinjstvo traje kod neke vrste

and how big their brains are compared to their bodies

i toga koliki je njihov mozak u poređenju sa telom

and how smart and flexible they are.

i koliko su pametne i prilagodljive.

And sort of the posterbirds for this idea are the birds up there.

I neka vrsta primera za ovu ideju su baš ptice tamo gore.

On one side

S jedne strane

is a New Caledonian crow.

je vrana iz Nove Kaledonije.

And crows and other corvidae, ravens, rooks and so forth,

A vrane i svi drugi pripadnici familije vrana, gavrani, gačci i tako dalje

are incredibly smart birds.

su neverovatno pametne ptice.

They're as smart as chimpanzees in some respects.

U nekim oblastima su podjednako pametni kao šimpanze.

And this is a bird on the cover of science

I ovo je ptica sa naslovne strane časopisa "Science"

who's learned how to use a tool to get food.

koja je naučila kako da koristi alatku da stigne do hrane.

On the other hand,

Sa druge strane,

we have our friend the domestic chicken.

imamo našu prijateljicu, domaću kokošku.

And chickens and ducks and geese and turkeys

Kokoške, patke, guske i ćurke

are basically as dumb as dumps.

su praktično rečeno, jako glupave.

So they're very, very good at pecking for grain,

Znači, one su jako, jako dobre u kljucanju zrnevlja,

and they're not much good at doing anything else.

ali nisu baš dobre ni u čemu više pored toga.

Well it turns out that the babies,

E pa, pokazalo se da su ptići,

the New Caledonian crow babies, are fledglings.

ptići vrane iz Nove Kaledonije, goluždravi i nesposobni.

They depend on their moms

Oni zavise od majke

to drop worms in their little open mouths

da im ubacuje crviće u njihova mala otvorena usta

for as long as two years,

i to čak tokom dve godine,

which is a really long time in the life of a bird.

što je vrlo dugo vreme u životnom veku ptice.

Whereas the chickens are actually mature

Dok pilići, zapravo, postaju zreli

within a couple of months.

u roku od nekoliko meseci.

So childhood is the reason

Prema tome, detinjstvo je razlog

why the crows end up on the cover of Science

zašto vrane završe na naslovnoj strani časopisa "Science"

and the chickens end up in the soup pot.

a kokoške završe u loncu za supu.

There's something about that long childhood

Postoji nešto u vezi sa tim dugačkim detinjstvom

that seems to be connected

što je, izgleda, povezano

to knowledge and learning.

sa znanjem i učenjem.

Well what kind of explanation could we have for this?

Pa, kakvo objašnjenje možemo da damo za to?

Well some animals, like the chicken,

Pa, neke životinje, kao kokoške,

seem to be beautifully suited

deluju vrlo lepo prilagođene

to doing just one thing very well.

da rade dobro samo jednu stvar.

So they seem to be beautifully suited

Tako kokoške deluju vrlo lepo prilagođene

to pecking grain in one environment.

da kljucaju zrnevlje u jednom tipu okruženja.

Other creatures, like the crows,

Druga stvorenja, kao vrane,

aren't very good at doing anything in particular,

nemaju neku specijalnost u kojoj su jako dobra,

but they're extremely good

ali su ekstremno dobra

at learning about laws of different environments.

u učenju zakonitosti koje vladaju u različitim okruženjima

And of course, we human beings

I naravno, mi ljudska bića

are way out on the end of the distribution like the crows.

smo na krajnjim granicama krive distribucije, kao vrane.

We have bigger brains relative to our bodies

Mi imamo veći mozak u poređenju sa telom

by far than any other animal.

nego bilo koja druga životninja.

We're smarter, we're more flexible,

Mi smo pametniji, prilagodljiviji,

we can learn more,

možemo više da naučimo,

we survive in more different environments,

da preživimo u različitim okruženjima,

we migrated to cover the world and even go to outer space.

mi smo migrirali širom celog sveta i čak smo otišli i u svemir.

And our babies and children are dependent on us

I naše bebe i deca su zavisna od nas

for much longer than the babies of any other species.

duže nego bebe bilo koje druge vrste.

My son is 23.

Moj sin ima 23 godine.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

And at least until they're 23,

I bar do tog uzrasta,

we're still popping those worms

mi im i dalje ubacujemo one crviće

into those little open mouths.

u ta mala otvorena usta.

All right, why would we see this correlation?

E dobro, zašto bismo mi uočili ovu korelaciju?

Well an idea is that that strategy, that learning strategy,

Pa, ideja je da je ta strategija, takva strategija učenja,

is an extremely powerful, great strategy for getting on in the world,

izuzetno moćna, odlična strategija za napredovanje,

but it has one big disadvantage.

ali da ima jedan veliki nedostatak.

And that one big disadvantage

I taj jedan veliki nedostatak

is that, until you actually do all that learning,

je to da ste, dok vršite sve to učenje,

you're going to be helpless.

vi zapravo bespomoćni.

So you don't want to have the mastodon charging at you

Pa tako ne želite da neki mastodont krene u napad na vas

and be saying to yourself,

a da vi u sebi govorite,

"A slingshot or maybe a spear might work. Which would actually be better?"

Praćka ili možda koplje bi mogli da posluže. Šta bi od ta dva u stvari bilo bolje?

You want to know all that

Vi želite da to sve znate

before the mastodons actually show up.

pre nego što se mastodonti uopšte i pojave.

And the way the evolutions seems to have solved that problem

A način na koji je evolucija izgleda rešila taj problem

is with a kind of division of labor.

je sa nekom vrstom podele rada.

So the idea is that we have this early period when we're completely protected.

Dakle, ideja je da mi imamo taj rani period kada smo potpuno zaštićeni.

We don't have to do anything. All we have to do is learn.

Ne moramo ništa da radimo. Sve što treba da radimo je da učimo.

And then as adults,

A zatim, kao odrasli,

we can take all those things that we learned when we were babies and children

možemo da uzmemo sve te stvari koje smo naučili kad smo bili bebe i deca

and actually put them to work to do things out there in the world.

i zaista ih upotrebimo da nešto postignemo tamo negde u svetu.

So one way of thinking about it

Dakle, jedan način posmatranja je

is that babies and young children

da su bebe i mala deca

are like the research and development division of the human species.

kao sekcija za istraživanje i razvoj u okviru ljudske vrste.

So they're the protected blue sky guys

Oni su zaštićeni i zaneseni razmišljanjem

who just have to go out and learn and have good ideas,

i samo treba da istražuju, uče i da imaju dobre ideje,

and we're production and marketing.

a mi smo tu za produkciju i marketing.

We have to take all those ideas

Mi treba da uzmemo sve te ideje

that we learned when we were children

koje smo naučili kad smo bili deca

and actually put them to use.

i da ih zapravo praktično upotrebimo.

Another way of thinking about it

Drugi način posmatranja je

is instead of thinking of babies and children

da, umesto što mislimo o bebama i deci

as being like defective grownups,

kao o defektnim odraslim jedinkama,

we should think about them

treba da mislimo o njima

as being a different developmental stage of the same species --

kao da su na drugom razvojnom nivou u okviru iste vrste --

kind of like caterpillars and butterflies --

nešto kao gusenice i leptiri --

except that they're actually the brilliant butterflies

osim što su bebe i deca zapravo briljantni leptiri

who are flitting around the garden and exploring,

koji lepršaju kroz baštu i istražuju,

and we're the caterpillars

a mi smo gusenice,

who are inching along our narrow, grownup, adult path.

koje se vuku duž našeg uskog, životnog puta odrasle osobe.

If this is true, if these babies are designed to learn --

Ako je ovo tačno, ako su ove bebe stvorene da uče --

and this evolutionary story would say children are for learning,

a ta evoluciona priča bi rekla da deca služe za učenje,

that's what they're for --

da je to ono zbog čega su tu --

we might expect

mogli bismo da očekujemo

that they would have really powerful learning mechanisms.

da bebe onda poseduju veoma moćne mehanizme za učenje.

And in fact, the baby's brain

I u stvari, mozak bebe

seems to be the most powerful learning computer

je, izgleda, najmoćniji kompjuter za učenje

on the planet.

na planeti.

But real computers are actually getting to be a lot better.

Ali pravi kompjuteri zapravo postaju mnogo bolji,

And there's been a revolution

i u poslednje vreme je došlo do revolucije

in our understanding of machine learning recently.

u našem shvatanju učenja kod mašina.

And it all depends on the ideas of this guy,

I to sve zavisi od ideja ovog čoveka,

the Reverend Thomas Bayes,

Velečasnog Tomasa Bajesa,

who was a statistician and mathematician in the 18th century.

koji je bio statističar i matematičar u 18.veku.

And essentially what Bayes did

I ukratko, ono što je Bajes uradio

was to provide a mathematical way

je bilo da pronađe matematički način,

using probability theory

koristeći teoriju verovatnoće,

to characterize, describe,

da okarakteriše, opiše,

the way that scientists find out about the world.

način na koji naučnici saznaju o svetu oko sebe.

So what scientists do

Dakle, ono što naučnici rade

is they have a hypothesis that they think might be likely to start with.

je da postavljaju hipoteze za koje misle da su verovatne

They go out and test it against the evidence.

onda istražuju i upoređuju sa podacima,

The evidence makes them change that hypothesis.

Podaci ih teraju da promene tu hipotezu.

Then they test that new hypothesis

Zatim testiraju tu novu hipotezu

and so on and so forth.

i tako dalje.

And what Bayes showed was a mathematical way that you could do that.

I ono što je Bajes pokazao je matematički način na koji možete to da uradite.

And that mathematics is at the core

I da je matematika u osnovi

of the best machine learning programs that we have now.

najboljih programa za učenje kod mašina koje sada imamo.

And some 10 years ago,

A pre nekih 10 godina,

I suggested that babies might be doing the same thing.

ja sam predložila da bebe možda rade to isto.

So if you want to know what's going on

Dakle, ako hoćete da znate šta se dešava

underneath those beautiful brown eyes,

iza tih divnih braon očiju,

I think it actually looks something like this.

ja mislim da zapravo izgleda ovako nekako.

This is Reverend Bayes's notebook.

To je sveska Velečasnog Bajesa.

So I think those babies are actually making complicated calculations

Prema tome, ja smatram da bebe zapravo vrše komplikovane proračune

with conditional probabilities that they're revising

sa uslovnim verovatnoćama koje onda ispituju

to figure out how the world works.

da bi shvatile kako svet funkcioniše.

All right, now that might seem like an even taller order to actually demonstrate.

Dobro, to sad može izgledati kao još teži zadatak da se zapravo demonstrira.

Because after all, if you ask even grownups about statistics,

Jer, na kraju krajeva, čak i ako odrasle pitate o statistici,

they look extremely stupid.

oni izgledaju veoma glupavo.

How could it be that children are doing statistics?

Kako je moguće da deca primenjuju statistiku?

So to test this we used a machine that we have

Da bismo ovo ispitali, koristili smo mašinu koju imamo

called the Blicket Detector.

takozvani Detektor Igračkica.

This is a box that lights up and plays music

To je kutija koja zasvetli i svira muziku

when you put some things on it and not others.

kada stavite neke stvari na nju, a ne neke druge.

And using this very simple machine,

I koristeći ovu vrlo jednostavnu mašinu,

my lab and others have done dozens of studies

moja laboratorija i drugi su uradili desetine istraživanja

showing just how good babies are

koja pokazuju kako su bebe dobre

at learning about the world.

u učenju o svetu oko sebe.

Let me mention just one

Evo pomenuću samo jedno istraživanje

that we did with Tumar Kushner, my student.

koje smo uradili moj student Tumar Kušner i ja.

If I showed you this detector,

Ako vam pokažem ovaj detektor

you would be likely to think to begin with

verovatno biste pomislili

that the way to make the detector go

da je pravi način da se on pokrene, taj

would be to put a block on top of the detector.

da se stavi kocka na vrh detektora.

But actually, this detector

Međutim, ovaj detektor

works in a bit of a strange way.

radi na pomalo čudan način.

Because if you wave a block over the top of the detector,

Jer, ako mašete kockom iznad detektora,

something you wouldn't ever think of to begin with,

što je nešto što vam uopšte ne bi ni palo na pamet,

the detector will actually activate two out of three times.

detektor će se, u stvari, aktivirati 2 od 3 puta.

Whereas, if you do the likely thing, put the block on the detector,

Dok, ako uradite očekivanu radnju, stavite kocku na vrh detektora,

it will only activate two out of six times.

to će aktivirati detektor u 2 od 6 slučajeva.

So the unlikely hypothesis

Dakle, hipoteza koja deluje malo verovatno,

actually has stronger evidence.

zapravo daje pouzdanije rezultate.

It looks as if the waving

Izgleda da je mahanje

is a more effective strategy than the other strategy.

efikasnija strategija nego ona druga strategija.

So we did just this; we gave four year-olds this pattern of evidence,

I tako smo uradili baš to; dali smo četvorogodišnjacima ovakav obrazac

and we just asked them to make it go.

i samo smo tražili od njih da to isprobaju.

And sure enough, the four year-olds used the evidence

I naravno, četvorogodišnjaci su to iskoristili,

to wave the object on top of the detector.

da mašu predmetom iznad detektora.

Now there are two things that are really interesting about this.

E sad, postoje dva vrlo interesantna zapažanja u vezi sa ovim.

The first one is, again, remember, these are four year-olds.

Prvo je, i ponovo, setite se da su ovo deca od 4 godine.

They're just learning how to count.

Oni tek uče da broje.

But unconsciously,

Ali, nesvesno,

they're doing these quite complicated calculations

oni vrše ove vrlo komplikovane proračune

that will give them a conditional probability measure.

koji im daju meru uslovne verovatnoće.

And the other interesting thing

A druga interesantna stvar

is that they're using that evidence

je da oni koriste taj podatak

to get to an idea, get to a hypothesis about the world,

da bi formirali ideju, hipotezu o svetu oko sebe

that seems very unlikely to begin with.

koja čak deluje i malo verovatno.

And in studies we've just been doing in my lab, similar studies,

U istraživanjima koja radimo u mojoj laboratoriji, sličnim istraživanjima,

we've show that four year-olds are actually better

pokazali smo da su deca od 4 godine zapravo bolja

at finding out an unlikely hypothesis

u formulisanju manje verovatnih hipoteza

than adults are when we give them exactly the same task.

nego što su to odrasli kada im damo potpuno isti zadatak.

So in these circumstances,

Prema tome, u ovim uslovima,

the children are using statistics to find out about the world,

deca koriste statistiku da saznaju nešto o svetu oko sebe,

but after all, scientists also do experiments,

a, na kraju, i naučnici takođe vrše eksperimente,

and we wanted to see if children are doing experiments.

pa smo mi hteli da vidimo da li deca vrše eksperimente.

When children do experiments we call it "getting into everything"

Kada deca vrše eksperimente, mi to zovemo "rade svašta"

or else "playing."

ili samo "igraju se".

And there's been a bunch of interesting studies recently

A postoji dosta interesantnih skorijih studija

that have shown this playing around

koje su pokazale da je to igranje,

is really a kind of experimental research program.

u stvari, vrsta eksperimentalnog istraživačkog programa.

Here's one from Cristine Legare's lab.

Evo jedne studije iz laboratorije Kristine Leger

What Cristine did was use our Blicket Detectors.

Kristina je koristila naše Detektore igračkica.

And what she did was show children

I pokazivala je deci

that yellow ones made it go and red ones didn't,

da žute kocke pokreću mašinu, a crvene ne,

and then she showed them an anomaly.

a onda im je pokazala anomaliju.

And what you'll see

I sada ćete videti,

is that this little boy will go through five hypotheses

kako ovaj mali dečak prolazi kroz pet hipoteza

in the space of two minutes.

tokom samo dva minuta.

(Video) Boy: How about this?

(Video) Dečak: A ovako?

Same as the other side.

Isto kao na drugoj strani.

Alison Gopnik: Okay, so his first hypothesis has just been falsified.

Elison Gopnik: Okej, znači njegova prva hipoteza se upravo pokazala kao neispravna.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

Boy: This one lighted up, and this one nothing.

Dečak: Ova svetli, a ova druga ništa.

AG: Okay, he's got his experimental notebook out.

EG: Okej, sad je izvadio svoju svesku za eksperimente.

Boy: What's making this light up.

Dečak: Zbog čega ovo svetli?

(Laughter)

(smeh)

I don't know.

Ne znam.

AG: Every scientist will recognize that expression of despair.

EG: Svaki naučnik će prepoznati taj izraz očajanja.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

Boy: Oh, it's because this needs to be like this,

Dečak: Oh, to je zato što ovo mora da bude ovako,

and this needs to be like this.

a ovo mora da bude ovako.

AG: Okay, hypothesis two.

EG: Okej, hipoteza broj dva.

Boy: That's why.

Dečak: Eto zašto.

Oh.

Oh.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

AG: Now this is his next idea.

EG: Ovo sad je njegova sledeća ideja.

He told the experimenter to do this,

Rekao je eksperimentatoru da uradi ovo,

to try putting it out onto the other location.

da proba da to stavi od gore, na drugo mesto.

Not working either.

Ne radi ni to.

Boy: Oh, because the light goes only to here,

Dečak: Oh, to je zato što svetlo radi samo ovde,

not here.

a ne ovde.

Oh, the bottom of this box

Oh, dno ove kutije

has electricity in here,

ima struju ovde,

but this doesn't have electricity.

ali ovo nema struju.

AG: Okay, that's a fourth hypothesis.

EG: Okej, to je četvrta hipoteza.

Boy: It's lighting up.

Dečak: Zasvetlelo je.

So when you put four.

Znači kad stavite četiri.

So you put four on this one to make it light up

Znači stavite četiri na ovu kutiju ovde da bi zasvetlelo

and two on this one to make it light up.

i dve na ovu ovde da bi zasvetlela.

AG: Okay,there's his fifth hypothesis.

EG: Okej, to je njegova peta hipoteza.

Now that is a particularly --

E sad, ovo je jedan izuzetno --

that is a particularly adorable and articulate little boy,

izuzetno sladak dečak koji se jako dobro izražava,

but what Cristine discovered is this is actually quite typical.

ali ono što je Kristina otkrila je da je ovo zapravo sasvim tipično.

If you look at the way children play, when you ask them to explain something,

Ako posmatrate način na koji se deca igraju, kada ih pitate da nešto objasne,

what they really do is do a series of experiments.

ono što oni stvarno rade je serija eksperimenata.

This is actually pretty typical of four year-olds.

To je, zapravo, prilično tipično za četvorogodišnjake.

Well, what's it like to be this kind of creature?

Dobro, a kako je to biti ovakvo stvorenje?

What's it like to be one of these brilliant butterflies

Kako je to biti jedan od ovih briljantnih leptira

who can test five hypotheses in two minutes?

koji mogu da testiraju pet hipoteza za dva minuta?

Well, if you go back to those psychologists and philosophers,

Pa, ako se vratimo onim psiholozima i filosofima,

a lot of them have said

mnogi od njih su rekli

that babies and young children were barely conscious

da su bebe i mala deca jedva svesna

if they were conscious at all.

ako uopšte i poseduju svest.

And I think just the opposite is true.

A ja mislim da je upravo obrnuto.

I think babies and children are actually more conscious than we are as adults.

Mislim da su bebe i deca, u stvari, svesnija nego što smo mi odrasli.

Now here's what we know about how adult consciousness works.

Evo šta znamo o tome kako radi svest kod odraslih.

And adults' attention and consciousness

I pažnja i svesnost odraslih

look kind of like a spotlight.

dosta podsećaju na neki usmeren snop svetla.

So what happens for adults

Pa se tako dešava kod odraslih,

is we decide that something's relevant or important,

da ako odlučimo da je nešto relevantno ili važno,

we should pay attention to it.

onda treba da obratimo pažnju na to.

Our consciousness of that thing that we're attending to

Naša svest o toj stvari kojom se bavimo

becomes extremely bright and vivid,

postaje izuzetno sjajna i jasna,

and everything else sort of goes dark.

a sve ostalo kao da potamni.

And we even know something about the way the brain does this.

I čak znamo ponešto o načinu na koji mozak to radi.

So what happens when we pay attention

Dakle, ono što se desi kad obratimo pažnju

is that the prefrontal cortex, the sort of executive part of our brains,

je da prefrontalni korteks, koji je neka vrsta rukovodioca našeg mozga,

sends a signal

šalje signal

that makes a little part of our brain much more flexible,

koji čini da jedan mali deo našeg mozga bude prilagodljiviji,

more plastic, better at learning,

plastičniji, bolji u učenju,

and shuts down activity

a gasi aktivnost

in all the rest of our brains.

u drugim delovima našeg mozga.

So we have a very focused, purpose-driven kind of attention.

Dakle, mi imamo vrlo fokusiranu pažnju, veoma zavisnu od svrhe.

If we look at babies and young children,

Ako posmatramo bebe i malu decu,

we see something very different.

vidimo nešto dosta drugačije.

I think babies and young children

Mislim da bebe i mala deca

seem to have more of a lantern of consciousness

izgleda pre imaju neku lampu svesnosti

than a spotlight of consciousness.

nego uski svetlosni snop svesti.

So babies and young children are very bad

Zato bebama i maloj deci teško polazi za rukom

at narrowing down to just one thing.

da se usmere samo na jednu stvar.

But they're very good at taking in lots of information

Ali su veoma dobri u primanju mnoštva informacija

from lots of different sources at once.

iz mnogo različitih izvora odjednom.

And if you actually look in their brains,

I ako, zapravo, pogledate u njihov mozak,

you see that they're flooded with these neurotransmitters

videćete da su preplavljeni svim tim neurotransmiterima

that are really good at inducing learning and plasticity,

koji su jako dobri za procese učenja i plastičnosti mozga,

and the inhibitory parts haven't come on yet.

a da se inhibitorni delovi još nisu pojavili.

So when we say that babies and young children

Dakle, kad kažemo da su bebe i mala deca

are bad at paying attention,

loša u obraćanju pažnje,

what we really mean is that they're bad at not paying attention.

ono što zaista mislimo je da su oni loši u NE-obraćanju pažnje.

So they're bad at getting rid

Znači, njima je teško da se otarase

of all the interesting things that could tell them something

svih interesantnih stvari koje bi mogle da im nešto kažu

and just looking at the thing that's important.

i da se fokusiraju samo na tu jednu važnu stvar.

That's the kind of attention, the kind of consciousness,

To je vrsta pažnje, vrsta svesnosti,

that we might expect

koju možemo očekivati

from those butterflies who are designed to learn.

od ovih leptira koji su stvoreni da uče.

Well if we want to think about a way

Dobro, ako hoćemo da razmišljamo o načinu

of getting a taste of that kind of baby consciousness as adults,

da kao odrasli okusimo tu vrstu dečje svesnosti

I think the best thing is think about cases

mislim da je najbolje da mislimo o slučajevima

where we're put in a new situation that we've never been in before --

kada se nađemo u novoj situaciji u koji nikada pre nismo bili --

when we fall in love with someone new,

kada se zaljubimo u nekog novog,

or when we're in a new city for the first time.

ili kada smo u novom gradu po prvi put.

And what happens then is not that our consciousness contracts,

I ono što se tada desi nije skupljanje svesnosti,

it expands,

nego širenje,

so that those three days in Paris

tako da ona tri dana u Parizu

seem to be more full of consciousness and experience

izgledaju ispunjenija svesnošću i iskustvom

than all the months of being

nego svi oni meseci kada smo

a walking, talking, faculty meeting-attending zombie back home.

kao zombi koji hoda, priča, ide na sastanke tamo kod kuće.

And by the way, that coffee,

I uzgred, ta kafa,

that wonderful coffee you've been drinking downstairs,

ta divna kafa koju pijete u prizemlju,

actually mimics the effect

zapravo imitira efekat

of those baby neurotransmitters.

onih dečjih neurotransmitera.

So what's it like to be a baby?

Dakle, kako je to biti beba?

It's like being in love

To je kao da ste zaljubljeni

in Paris for the first time

u Parizu po prvi put

after you've had three double-espressos.

pošto ste popili tri dupla espresa.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

That's a fantastic way to be,

To je fantastičan osećaj,

but it does tend to leave you waking up crying at three o'clock in the morning.

ali takođe dovodi do toga da se plačući budite u tri sata ujutru.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

Now it's good to be a grownup.

Da, dobro je biti odrasla osoba.

I don't want to say too much about how wonderful babies are.

Ne želim da pričam preterano o tome kako su bebe divne.

It's good to be a grownup.

Dobro je biti odrasla osoba.

We can do things like tie our shoelaces and cross the street by ourselves.

Mi možemo sami da vežemo pertle ili sami da pređemo ulicu.

And it makes sense that we put a lot of effort

I logično je da ulažemo mnogo truda

into making babies think like adults do.

da bismo naterali bebe da razmišljaju kao odrasli.

But if what we want is to be like those butterflies,

Ali, ako želimo da budemo kao ti leptiri,

to have open-mindedness, open learning,

da budemo nepristrasni, otvoreni za učenje,

imagination, creativity, innovation,

za maštu, kreativnost, inovaciju,

maybe at least some of the time

možda bi, bar na neko vreme,

we should be getting the adults

trebalo da teramo odrasle

to start thinking more like children.

da počnu da razmišljaju sličnije deci.

(Applause)

(aplauz)