Alison Gopnik: What do babies think?

395,642 views ・ 2011-10-10

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Translator: Irma Sutlic Reviewer: Tilen Pigac - EFZG
00:15
What is going on
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O čem premišlja
00:17
in this baby's mind?
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tale malček?
00:19
If you'd asked people this 30 years ago,
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Če bi to koga vprašali pred 30 leti,
00:21
most people, including psychologists,
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bi jih večina, vključno s psihologi,
00:23
would have said that this baby was irrational,
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odgovorila, da je ta malček neracionalen,
00:26
illogical, egocentric --
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nelogičen, egocentričen --
00:28
that he couldn't take the perspective of another person
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da se ne more vživeti v nekoga drugega
00:30
or understand cause and effect.
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in da ne razume vzroka in posledice.
00:32
In the last 20 years,
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V zadnjih 20 letih
00:34
developmental science has completely overturned that picture.
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je znanost o razvoju popolnoma preobrnila to sliko.
00:37
So in some ways,
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Tako nekako
00:39
we think that this baby's thinking
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mislimo, da je premišljanje tega malčka
00:41
is like the thinking of the most brilliant scientists.
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takšno kot je premišljanje najsijajnejših znanstvenikov.
00:45
Let me give you just one example of this.
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Naj podam primer tega.
00:47
One thing that this baby could be thinking about,
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Ena stvar, o kateri bi ta malček lahko premišljal,
00:50
that could be going on in his mind,
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kar bi se lahko odvijalo v njegovem umu,
00:52
is trying to figure out
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je, da poskuša ugotoviti,
00:54
what's going on in the mind of that other baby.
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o čem premišlja ta drugi malček.
00:57
After all, one of the things that's hardest for all of us to do
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Navsezadnje je ena najtežjih stvari za vse nas
01:00
is to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling.
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ugotavljanje, kaj razmišljajo in čutijo drugi ljudje.
01:03
And maybe the hardest thing of all
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In morda je najtežja stvar od vsega
01:05
is to figure out that what other people think and feel
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ugotoviti, da to, kar mislijo in čutijo drugi ljudje,
01:08
isn't actually exactly like what we think and feel.
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dejansko ni točno to, kar mislimo in čutimo sami.
01:10
Anyone who's followed politics can testify
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Kdorkoli je kdaj sledil politiki lahko potrdi,
01:12
to how hard that is for some people to get.
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kako težko je nekaterim ljudem to dojeti.
01:15
We wanted to know
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Želeli smo izvedeti,
01:17
if babies and young children
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če bi malčki in majhni otroci
01:19
could understand this really profound thing about other people.
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razumeli to resnično poglobljeno stvar o drugih ljudeh.
01:22
Now the question is: How could we ask them?
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Ampak vprašanje je, kako bi jih o tem lahko vprašali?
01:24
Babies, after all, can't talk,
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Malčki navsezadnje ne morejo govoriti,
01:26
and if you ask a three year-old
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če pa triletnika prosite,
01:28
to tell you what he thinks,
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naj vam pove, kaj misli,
01:30
what you'll get is a beautiful stream of consciousness monologue
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boste dobili prelep tok zavestnega samogovora
01:33
about ponies and birthdays and things like that.
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o konjičkih in rojstnih dnevih in podobnem.
01:36
So how do we actually ask them the question?
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Torej kako bi jim dejansko postavili to vprašanje?
01:39
Well it turns out that the secret was broccoli.
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No, izkaže se, da je bila skrivnost v brokoliju.
01:42
What we did -- Betty Rapacholi, who was one of my students, and I --
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Kar sva naredili skupaj z Betty Rapasholi, eno mojih študentk --
01:46
was actually to give the babies two bowls of food:
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je bilo to, da sva malčkom dali dve skledici hrane:
01:49
one bowl of raw broccoli
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eno skodelico surovega brokolija
01:51
and one bowl of delicious goldfish crackers.
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in eno skodelico slastnih krekerjev v obliki ribice.
01:54
Now all of the babies, even in Berkley,
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No, prav vsi otroci, celo v Berkleyu,
01:57
like the crackers and don't like the raw broccoli.
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imajo radi krekerje in ne marajo surovega brokolija.
02:00
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:02
But then what Betty did
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Betty je potem
02:04
was to take a little taste of food from each bowl.
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poskusila malo jedi v vsaki izmed skodelic.
02:07
And she would act as if she liked it or she didn't.
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Ob tem se je vedla kot da ji je jed všeč oziroma ji ni.
02:09
So half the time, she acted
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V polovici primerov se je vedla
02:11
as if she liked the crackers and didn't like the broccoli --
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kot da so ji všeč krekerji, brokoli pa ne --
02:13
just like a baby and any other sane person.
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enako kot malčki in vsaka oseba pri zdravi pameti.
02:16
But half the time,
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V polovici primerov
02:18
what she would do is take a little bit of the broccoli
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pa je naredila tako, da je vzela malo brokolija
02:20
and go, "Mmmmm, broccoli.
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in rekla: "Mmmmmm, brokoli.
02:23
I tasted the broccoli. Mmmmm."
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Poskusila sem brokoli. Mmmmm".
02:26
And then she would take a little bit of the crackers,
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Nakar je vzela malo krekerjev
02:28
and she'd go, "Eww, yuck, crackers.
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in rekla: "Ooo, bljak krekerji.
02:32
I tasted the crackers. Eww, yuck."
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Poskusila sem krekerje. Ooo, bljak".
02:35
So she'd act as if what she wanted
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Torej pretvarjala se je, da je želela
02:37
was just the opposite of what the babies wanted.
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ravno nasprotno od tega, kar so želeli malčki.
02:40
We did this with 15 and 18 month-old babies.
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To smo izvedli z malčki, starimi 15 in 18 mesecev.
02:42
And then she would simply put her hand out and say,
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Potem je preprosto nastavila roko in rekla:
02:45
"Can you give me some?"
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"Mi daš malo?"
02:47
So the question is: What would the baby give her,
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Vprašanje je torej bilo, kaj ji bo dal malček:
02:49
what they liked or what she liked?
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to, kar ima rad sam ali to, kar ima rada ona?
02:51
And the remarkable thing was that 18 month-old babies,
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In pomembno je, da so ji 18-mesečni malčki,
02:54
just barely walking and talking,
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ki so komaj shodili in spregovorili,
02:56
would give her the crackers if she liked the crackers,
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dali krekerje, če so ji bili všeč krekerji,
02:59
but they would give her the broccoli if she liked the broccoli.
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vendar ji dali brokoli, če ji je bil všeč brokoli.
03:02
On the other hand,
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A po drugi strani
03:04
15 month-olds would stare at her for a long time
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so 15-mesečniki dolgo časa strmeli vanjo,
03:06
if she acted as if she liked the broccoli,
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če se je pretvarjala, da ji je všeč brokoli,
03:08
like they couldn't figure this out.
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kakor da tega ne morejo razumeti.
03:11
But then after they stared for a long time,
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Ampak potem, ko so dolgo časa strmeli,
03:13
they would just give her the crackers,
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so ji preprosto izročili krekerje,
03:15
what they thought everybody must like.
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kot so mislili da je najbrž všeč vsakomur.
03:17
So there are two really remarkable things about this.
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Dve resnično pomembni stvari glede tega sta.
03:20
The first one is that these little 18 month-old babies
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Prva je, da so ti 18-mesečni malčki
03:23
have already discovered
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že odkrili
03:25
this really profound fact about human nature,
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globoko dejstvo o človeški naravi,
03:27
that we don't always want the same thing.
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to je, da nam ni vedno všeč ista stvar.
03:29
And what's more, they felt that they should actually do things
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Še več, čutili so, da bi morali ravnati tako,
03:31
to help other people get what they wanted.
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da drugim pomagajo dobiti, kar želijo.
03:34
Even more remarkably though,
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Še bolj pomembno pa je to,
03:36
the fact that 15 month-olds didn't do this
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da dejstvo, da 15-mesečniki tega niso storili,
03:39
suggests that these 18 month-olds had learned
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navaja na misel, da so se 18-mesečniki
03:42
this deep, profound fact about human nature
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tega globokega, poglobljenega dejstva o človeški
03:45
in the three months from when they were 15 months old.
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naravi naučili v treh mesecih odkar so bili še 15-mesečniki.
03:48
So children both know more and learn more
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Torej otroci znajo več in se naučijo več
03:50
than we ever would have thought.
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kot si sploh lahko mislimo.
03:52
And this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of studies over the last 20 years
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In to je zgolj ena izmed stotin študij skozi zadnjih 20 let,
03:56
that's actually demonstrated it.
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ki so to pokazale.
03:58
The question you might ask though is:
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Vendar bi si lahko zastavili vprašanje:
04:00
Why do children learn so much?
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Zakaj se otroci toliko naučijo?
04:03
And how is it possible for them to learn so much
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In zakaj je mogoče, da se naučijo toliko
04:05
in such a short time?
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v tako kratkem času?
04:07
I mean, after all, if you look at babies superficially,
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Ker, navsezadnje, če na malčke pogledamo malo površno,
04:09
they seem pretty useless.
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se zdi, da so precej nekoristni.
04:11
And actually in many ways, they're worse than useless,
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Dejansko so v mnogih pogledih še slabše kot nekoristni,
04:14
because we have to put so much time and energy
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saj zahteva toliko časa in energije že to,
04:16
into just keeping them alive.
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da jih obdržimo pri življenju.
04:18
But if we turn to evolution
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A če se zatečemo k evoluciji
04:20
for an answer to this puzzle
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da bi našli odgovor na to uganko,
04:22
of why we spend so much time
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zakaj namenimo toliko časa
04:24
taking care of useless babies,
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skrbi za nekoristne malčke,
04:27
it turns out that there's actually an answer.
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se izkaže, da odgovor pravzaprav obstaja.
04:30
If we look across many, many different species of animals,
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Če pregledamo veliko, veliko različnih živalskih vrst,
04:33
not just us primates,
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ne samo nas, primate,
04:35
but also including other mammals, birds,
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temveč tudi druge sesalce, ptiče,
04:37
even marsupials
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celo vrečarje
04:39
like kangaroos and wombats,
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kot so kenguruji in vombati,
04:41
it turns out that there's a relationship
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se izkaže, da obstaja povezava
04:43
between how long a childhood a species has
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med tem, kako dolgo otroštvo ima vrsta,
04:47
and how big their brains are compared to their bodies
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in tem, kako veliki so možgani v primerjavi s telesom,
04:51
and how smart and flexible they are.
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ter tem, kako bistri in fleksibilni so osebki.
04:53
And sort of the posterbirds for this idea are the birds up there.
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Kot ilustracija za to idejo so ptiči tamle zgoraj.
04:56
On one side
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Na eni strani
04:58
is a New Caledonian crow.
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je novokaledonska vrana.
05:00
And crows and other corvidae, ravens, rooks and so forth,
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Vrane in drugi iz vrste corvidae, krokarji, kavke in tako naprej,
05:03
are incredibly smart birds.
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so neverjetno bistri ptiči.
05:05
They're as smart as chimpanzees in some respects.
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V nekaterih pogledih so prav tako bistri kot šimpanzi.
05:08
And this is a bird on the cover of science
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In to je ptič na naslovnici revije Science,
05:10
who's learned how to use a tool to get food.
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ki se je naučil, kako uporabiti orodje, da bi prišel do hrane.
05:13
On the other hand,
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Na drugi strani
05:15
we have our friend the domestic chicken.
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imamo našo prijateljico domačo kokoš.
05:17
And chickens and ducks and geese and turkeys
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Kokoši, race, gosi in purani
05:20
are basically as dumb as dumps.
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pa so butasti kot so le lahko.
05:22
So they're very, very good at pecking for grain,
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Zelo, zelo so dobri pri kljuvanju za zrnjem,
05:25
and they're not much good at doing anything else.
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niso pa kaj prida v ničemer drugem.
05:28
Well it turns out that the babies,
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Izkaže se, da so malčki,
05:30
the New Caledonian crow babies, are fledglings.
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mladički novokalednonske vrane, nebogljenjčki.
05:32
They depend on their moms
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Odvisni so od matere,
05:34
to drop worms in their little open mouths
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ki jim v odprte kljunčke prinaša črve,
05:37
for as long as two years,
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in to kar dve leti,
05:39
which is a really long time in the life of a bird.
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kar je v življenju ptiča resnično dolga doba.
05:41
Whereas the chickens are actually mature
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Medtem ko kokoš dejansko odraste
05:43
within a couple of months.
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v par mesecih.
05:45
So childhood is the reason
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Torej otroštvo je razlog,
05:48
why the crows end up on the cover of Science
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zakaj vrane končajo na naslovnici revije Science,
05:50
and the chickens end up in the soup pot.
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kokoši pa končajo v loncu za juho.
05:52
There's something about that long childhood
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Nekaj v tem dolgem otroštvu
05:55
that seems to be connected
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se zdi kot da je povezano
05:57
to knowledge and learning.
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z znanjem in učenjem.
05:59
Well what kind of explanation could we have for this?
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Kakšno razlago bi lahko našli za to?
06:02
Well some animals, like the chicken,
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No, za nekatere živali, kot na primer za kokoši,
06:05
seem to be beautifully suited
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se zdi, kot da so lepo prilagojene
06:07
to doing just one thing very well.
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za dobro opravljanje le ene stvari.
06:09
So they seem to be beautifully suited
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Torej so videti lepo prilagojene
06:12
to pecking grain in one environment.
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na kljuvanje zrnja v nekem okolju.
06:14
Other creatures, like the crows,
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Druga bitja, kot na primer vrane,
06:16
aren't very good at doing anything in particular,
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niso posebej dobre pri kakšni določeni stvari,
06:18
but they're extremely good
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so pa izredno dobre
06:20
at learning about laws of different environments.
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glede učenja zakonitosti različnih okolj.
06:22
And of course, we human beings
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In seveda smo človeška bitja
06:24
are way out on the end of the distribution like the crows.
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še bolj čez rob statistične porazdelitve kot vrane.
06:27
We have bigger brains relative to our bodies
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Glede na telo imamo zdaleč večje možgane
06:29
by far than any other animal.
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kot katerakoli druga žival.
06:31
We're smarter, we're more flexible,
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Smo bolj bistri, fleksibilni,
06:33
we can learn more,
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lahko se naučimo več,
06:35
we survive in more different environments,
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preživimo v mnogih različnih okoljih,
06:37
we migrated to cover the world and even go to outer space.
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preseljevali smo se in prekrili svet in celo odpotovali v vesolje.
06:40
And our babies and children are dependent on us
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Naši dojenčki in otroci pa so od staršev odvisni
06:43
for much longer than the babies of any other species.
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dlje kot potomci katere koli druge vrste.
06:46
My son is 23.
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Moj sin je star 23 let.
06:48
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:50
And at least until they're 23,
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Vsaj dokler ne dosežejo 23 let,
06:52
we're still popping those worms
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jim še vedno prinašamo črve
06:54
into those little open mouths.
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v odprta usteca.
06:57
All right, why would we see this correlation?
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Zakaj bi torej opazili to korelacijo?
07:00
Well an idea is that that strategy, that learning strategy,
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Ena zamisel je, da je ta strategija, strategija učenja,
07:04
is an extremely powerful, great strategy for getting on in the world,
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zelo prodorna, veličastna strategija za to, da uspevamo v svetu,
07:07
but it has one big disadvantage.
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vendar ima veliko pomanjkljivost.
07:09
And that one big disadvantage
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Ta pomanjkljivost je,
07:11
is that, until you actually do all that learning,
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da dokler ne izvedeš vsega tega učenja,
07:14
you're going to be helpless.
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ostajaš nebogljen.
07:16
So you don't want to have the mastodon charging at you
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Tako raje ne srečaš napadajočega mastodonta,
07:19
and be saying to yourself,
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potem pa preudarjaš:
07:21
"A slingshot or maybe a spear might work. Which would actually be better?"
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"Kopje ali sulica bi morda delovalo. Kaj bi bilo pravzaprav boljše?"
07:25
You want to know all that
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Raje vse to že veš,
07:27
before the mastodons actually show up.
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preden se mastodont prikaže.
07:29
And the way the evolutions seems to have solved that problem
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Izgleda, da je evolucija to rešila na tak način,
07:32
is with a kind of division of labor.
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da se nekako deli delo.
07:34
So the idea is that we have this early period when we're completely protected.
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Ideja je, da obstaja to zgodnje obdobje, ko smo popolnoma varovani.
07:37
We don't have to do anything. All we have to do is learn.
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Ni nam treba ničesar. Vse kar moramo je, da se učimo.
07:40
And then as adults,
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Kot odrasli potem
07:42
we can take all those things that we learned when we were babies and children
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lahko vse te stvari, ki smo se jih naučili, ko smo bili malčki in otroci, vzamemo
07:45
and actually put them to work to do things out there in the world.
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in jih udejanjamo v velikem svetu.
07:48
So one way of thinking about it
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Na en način lahko torej smatramo,
07:50
is that babies and young children
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da so malčki in majhni otroci
07:52
are like the research and development division of the human species.
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kot oddelek za raziskave in razvoj človeške vrste.
07:55
So they're the protected blue sky guys
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Da so zaščiteni sanjači,
07:58
who just have to go out and learn and have good ideas,
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ki jim je le treba iti ven in se učiti in imeti dobre zamisli,
08:00
and we're production and marketing.
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proizvodnja in marketing pa smo mi.
08:02
We have to take all those ideas
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Vse ideje,
08:04
that we learned when we were children
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ki smo se jih naučili kot otroci,
08:06
and actually put them to use.
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moramo vzeti in jih uporabiti.
08:08
Another way of thinking about it
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Drug način je,
08:10
is instead of thinking of babies and children
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da namesto da smatramo malčke in otroke
08:12
as being like defective grownups,
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kot odrasle z napako,
08:14
we should think about them
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nanje raje gledamo
08:16
as being a different developmental stage of the same species --
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kot na drugačno razvojno stopnjo iste vrste --
08:18
kind of like caterpillars and butterflies --
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nekako tako kot na gosenice in metulje --
08:21
except that they're actually the brilliant butterflies
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razen da so oni tisti čudoviti metulji,
08:23
who are flitting around the garden and exploring,
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ki letajo po vrtu in raziskujejo,
08:26
and we're the caterpillars
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mi pa smo gosenice,
08:28
who are inching along our narrow, grownup, adult path.
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ki lezejo po naši ozki odrasli poti.
08:31
If this is true, if these babies are designed to learn --
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Če to drži, če so malčki narejeni za učenje --
08:34
and this evolutionary story would say children are for learning,
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in ta evolucijska zgodba bi zatrdila, da so otroci za učenje,
08:37
that's what they're for --
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da je to tisto, za kar so namenjeni --
08:39
we might expect
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bi morda pričakovali,
08:41
that they would have really powerful learning mechanisms.
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da bodo imeli resnično prodorne mehanizme učenja.
08:43
And in fact, the baby's brain
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Dejansko se zdi, da so možgani malčka
08:46
seems to be the most powerful learning computer
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najmogočnejši računalnik za učenje
08:48
on the planet.
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na vsem planetu.
08:50
But real computers are actually getting to be a lot better.
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Pravi računalniki dejansko postajajo mnogo boljši.
08:53
And there's been a revolution
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Nedavno je bila revolucija
08:55
in our understanding of machine learning recently.
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v našem razumevanju strojnega učenja.
08:57
And it all depends on the ideas of this guy,
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Vse na podlagi zamisli nekoga,
09:00
the Reverend Thomas Bayes,
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to je častiti Thomas Bayes,
09:02
who was a statistician and mathematician in the 18th century.
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ki je bil statistik in matematik iz 18. stoletja.
09:05
And essentially what Bayes did
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V osnovi je Bayes
09:08
was to provide a mathematical way
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ponudil matematični način,
09:10
using probability theory
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ki je z uporabo teorije verjetnosti
09:12
to characterize, describe,
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omogočal označevanje in opisovanje,
09:14
the way that scientists find out about the world.
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način, s katerim znanstveniki raziskujejo svet.
09:16
So what scientists do
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Znanstvenik ima najprej
09:18
is they have a hypothesis that they think might be likely to start with.
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hipotezo, s katero bo najbrž začel.
09:21
They go out and test it against the evidence.
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Potem gre in jo preizkuša glede na dokazna dejstva.
09:23
The evidence makes them change that hypothesis.
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Zaradi dokaznih dejstev spreminja to hipotezo.
09:25
Then they test that new hypothesis
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Potem preizkuša tisto novo hipotezo
09:27
and so on and so forth.
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in tako naprej.
09:29
And what Bayes showed was a mathematical way that you could do that.
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Bayes je pokazal matematični način, kako bi bilo to izvedljivo.
09:32
And that mathematics is at the core
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Prav ta matematika je sedaj v osrčju
09:34
of the best machine learning programs that we have now.
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najboljših programov za strojno učenje, kar jih imamo.
09:36
And some 10 years ago,
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Pred približno 10 leti
09:38
I suggested that babies might be doing the same thing.
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sem predlagala idejo, da malčki najbrž delajo isto.
09:42
So if you want to know what's going on
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Če vas torej zanima, kaj se odvija
09:44
underneath those beautiful brown eyes,
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za temi lepimi rjavimi očmi,
09:46
I think it actually looks something like this.
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menim, da je videti kot nekaj takega.
09:48
This is Reverend Bayes's notebook.
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Tole je beležnica častitega Bayesa.
09:50
So I think those babies are actually making complicated calculations
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Menim, da malčki dejansko izvajajo komplicirane izračune
09:53
with conditional probabilities that they're revising
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s pogojnimi verjetnostmi, ki jih nato ponovno pretehtajo,
09:56
to figure out how the world works.
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zato da bi ugotovili, kako deluje svet.
09:58
All right, now that might seem like an even taller order to actually demonstrate.
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Prav, to je najbrž še bolj nemogoče dejansko pokazati.
10:02
Because after all, if you ask even grownups about statistics,
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Saj že če odrasle sprašujemo o statistiki,
10:04
they look extremely stupid.
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začnejo neumno gledati.
10:06
How could it be that children are doing statistics?
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Kako bi torej otroci mogli izvajati statistiko?
10:09
So to test this we used a machine that we have
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Da bi to preverili, smo uporabili napravo,
10:11
called the Blicket Detector.
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ki smo jo poimenovali Blicket Detector.
10:13
This is a box that lights up and plays music
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To je škatla, ki zasveti in zaigra glasbo,
10:15
when you put some things on it and not others.
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kadar nanjo položiš določene stvari, kadar položiš druge, pa ne.
10:18
And using this very simple machine,
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S to preprosto napravo
10:20
my lab and others have done dozens of studies
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smo pri nas v laboratoriju in tudi drugod opravili številne raziskave,
10:22
showing just how good babies are
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ki kažejo, kako dobri so otroci
10:24
at learning about the world.
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pri učenju o svetu.
10:26
Let me mention just one
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Naj omenim le eno,
10:28
that we did with Tumar Kushner, my student.
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ki sva jo naredila moj študent Tumar Kushner in jaz.
10:30
If I showed you this detector,
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Če bi vam pokazala ta detektor,
10:32
you would be likely to think to begin with
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bi najbrž spočetka menili,
10:34
that the way to make the detector go
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da se detektor sproži tako,
10:36
would be to put a block on top of the detector.
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da nanj postavite kocko.
10:39
But actually, this detector
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Vendar ta detektor
10:41
works in a bit of a strange way.
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deluje na malo nenavaden način.
10:43
Because if you wave a block over the top of the detector,
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Če s kocko pomahate nad detektorjem,
10:46
something you wouldn't ever think of to begin with,
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česar se najbrž sploh ne bi spomnili,
10:49
the detector will actually activate two out of three times.
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se bo detektor sprožil v dveh primerih od treh.
10:52
Whereas, if you do the likely thing, put the block on the detector,
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Če pa kocko položite nanj, kar bi najbrž storili,
10:55
it will only activate two out of six times.
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se bo sprožil le v dveh primerih od šestih.
10:59
So the unlikely hypothesis
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Torej manj verjetna hipoteza
11:01
actually has stronger evidence.
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je bolj podprta z dokaznimi dejstvi.
11:03
It looks as if the waving
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Videti je, da je mahanje nad detektorjem
11:05
is a more effective strategy than the other strategy.
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bolj učinkovita strategija kot tista druga strategija.
11:07
So we did just this; we gave four year-olds this pattern of evidence,
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Napravili smo ravno tako: štiriletnikom smo dali opisan vzorec dokaznih dejstev
11:10
and we just asked them to make it go.
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in jih prosili, naj začnejo.
11:12
And sure enough, the four year-olds used the evidence
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In zagotovo so štiriletniki uporabili dokazna dejstva za to,
11:15
to wave the object on top of the detector.
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da so s kocko pomahali nad detektorjem.
11:18
Now there are two things that are really interesting about this.
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Pri tem sta dve resnično zanimivi stvari.
11:21
The first one is, again, remember, these are four year-olds.
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Najprej, spomnite se, da gre za štiriletnike.
11:24
They're just learning how to count.
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Ravno se učijo šteti.
11:26
But unconsciously,
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Vendar nezavedno
11:28
they're doing these quite complicated calculations
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izvajajo te kar zapletene izračune,
11:30
that will give them a conditional probability measure.
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ki jim bodo povedali mero pogojne verjetnosti.
11:33
And the other interesting thing
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Druga zanimiva stvar pa je,
11:35
is that they're using that evidence
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da dokazna dejstva uporabljajo za to,
11:37
to get to an idea, get to a hypothesis about the world,
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da bi dobili zamisel, hipotezo o svetu,
11:40
that seems very unlikely to begin with.
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s katero najbrž ne bi začeli.
11:43
And in studies we've just been doing in my lab, similar studies,
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V podobnih študijah, ki jih smo jih ravno delali v našem laboratoriju,
11:46
we've show that four year-olds are actually better
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smo pokazali, da so štiriletniki pravzaprav boljši
11:48
at finding out an unlikely hypothesis
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pri odkrivanju manj verjetne hipoteze
11:51
than adults are when we give them exactly the same task.
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kot pa odrasli, ki jim damo točno isto nalogo.
11:54
So in these circumstances,
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V teh okoliščinah torej
11:56
the children are using statistics to find out about the world,
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otroci uporabljajo statistiko za odkrivanje sveta,
11:59
but after all, scientists also do experiments,
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vendar znanstveniki delajo tudi poskuse
12:02
and we wanted to see if children are doing experiments.
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in nas je zanimalo, če tudi otroci delajo poskuse.
12:05
When children do experiments we call it "getting into everything"
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Kadar otroci delajo poskuse, temu rečemo da "vtaknejo nos povsod"
12:08
or else "playing."
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oziroma da "se igrajo".
12:10
And there's been a bunch of interesting studies recently
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Pred kratkim je bilo kar nekaj zanimivih študij,
12:13
that have shown this playing around
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ki so pokazale, da je to igračkanje
12:16
is really a kind of experimental research program.
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v resnici nekakšen eksperimentalen raziskovalni program.
12:18
Here's one from Cristine Legare's lab.
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Tukaj je študija iz laboratorija Christine Legare.
12:21
What Cristine did was use our Blicket Detectors.
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Christine je uporabila našo napravo Blicket Detector.
12:24
And what she did was show children
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Otrokom je pokazala,
12:26
that yellow ones made it go and red ones didn't,
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da rumene kocke detektor sprožijo, rdeče pa ne,
12:28
and then she showed them an anomaly.
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potem pa jim je pokazala nepravilnost v delovanju.
12:31
And what you'll see
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Na posnetku boste videli,
12:33
is that this little boy will go through five hypotheses
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kako je mali fantič preizkusil pet različnih hipotez
12:36
in the space of two minutes.
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v roku dveh minut.
12:39
(Video) Boy: How about this?
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(Video) Fantič: Kaj pa takole?
12:43
Same as the other side.
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Isto kot na drugi strani.
12:46
Alison Gopnik: Okay, so his first hypothesis has just been falsified.
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Alison Gopnik: V redu, njegova prva hipoteza je bila ovržena.
12:55
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
12:57
Boy: This one lighted up, and this one nothing.
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Fantič: Tale se je prižgala, tale pa nič.
13:00
AG: Okay, he's got his experimental notebook out.
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AG: V redu, njegova eksperimentalna beležnica je tu.
13:06
Boy: What's making this light up.
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Fantič: Kaj naredi, da se to prižge.
13:11
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
13:20
I don't know.
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Ne vem.
13:22
AG: Every scientist will recognize that expression of despair.
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AG: Vsak znanstvenik bo prepoznal ta izraz obupa.
13:26
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
13:29
Boy: Oh, it's because this needs to be like this,
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Fantič: O, tole mora biti tako kot to,
13:35
and this needs to be like this.
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tole pa tako kot to.
13:37
AG: Okay, hypothesis two.
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AG: V redu, hipoteza dve.
13:40
Boy: That's why.
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Fantič: A, zato.
13:42
Oh.
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O.
13:44
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
13:49
AG: Now this is his next idea.
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AG: Tole je njegova naslednja zamisel.
13:51
He told the experimenter to do this,
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Eksperimentatorja je prosil, naj naredi takole,
13:53
to try putting it out onto the other location.
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naj postavi gor na drugo mesto.
13:57
Not working either.
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Tudi ne deluje.
14:02
Boy: Oh, because the light goes only to here,
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Fantič: Oh, to je zato, ker gre luč samo semle,
14:06
not here.
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semle pa ne.
14:09
Oh, the bottom of this box
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O, dno te škatle
14:12
has electricity in here,
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ima notri elektriko,
14:14
but this doesn't have electricity.
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tale pa nima elektrike.
14:16
AG: Okay, that's a fourth hypothesis.
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AG: V redu, to je četrta hipoteza.
14:18
Boy: It's lighting up.
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Fantič: Prižgala se je.
14:20
So when you put four.
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Torej če postaviš štiri.
14:26
So you put four on this one to make it light up
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Torej na tole postaviš štiri, da se prižge,
14:29
and two on this one to make it light up.
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na tole pa dve, da se prižge.
14:31
AG: Okay,there's his fifth hypothesis.
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AG: V redu, to je njegova peta hipoteza.
14:33
Now that is a particularly --
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Tole je posebej,
14:36
that is a particularly adorable and articulate little boy,
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še posebej očarljiv in zgovoren fantič,
14:39
but what Cristine discovered is this is actually quite typical.
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vendar je Christine odkrila, da je to pravzaprav kar tipično.
14:42
If you look at the way children play, when you ask them to explain something,
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Če opazujete, kako se otroci igrajo, če jih prosite, naj nekaj razložijo,
14:45
what they really do is do a series of experiments.
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pravzaprav izvedejo vrsto poskusov.
14:48
This is actually pretty typical of four year-olds.
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To je za štiriletnike precej tipično.
14:51
Well, what's it like to be this kind of creature?
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Kako je, če si takšno bitje?
14:54
What's it like to be one of these brilliant butterflies
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Kako je, če si eden od teh sijajnih metuljev,
14:57
who can test five hypotheses in two minutes?
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ki lahko v dveh minutah testira pet hipotez?
15:00
Well, if you go back to those psychologists and philosophers,
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No, če gremo v preteklost k tistim psihologom in filozofom,
15:03
a lot of them have said
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jih je veliko reklo,
15:05
that babies and young children were barely conscious
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da so majhni otroci komaj zavestni,
15:07
if they were conscious at all.
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če sploh so zavestni.
15:09
And I think just the opposite is true.
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Jaz pa menim, da je res ravno nasprotno.
15:11
I think babies and children are actually more conscious than we are as adults.
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Menim, da so malčki in otroci bolj zavestni kot smo mi, ki smo odrasli.
15:14
Now here's what we know about how adult consciousness works.
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O tem, kako deluje zavest odraslega, vemo tole.
15:17
And adults' attention and consciousness
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Pozornost in zavest odraslega
15:19
look kind of like a spotlight.
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izgledata kot žaromet.
15:21
So what happens for adults
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Kar se zgodi pri odraslem je to,
15:23
is we decide that something's relevant or important,
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da ko se odločimo, da je nekaj relevantno ali pomembno,
15:25
we should pay attention to it.
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pozornost usmerimo na to.
15:27
Our consciousness of that thing that we're attending to
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Naše zavedanje o tem, na kar smo pozorni,
15:29
becomes extremely bright and vivid,
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postane skrajno svetlo in živo,
15:32
and everything else sort of goes dark.
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vse ostalo postane nekako zatemnjeno.
15:34
And we even know something about the way the brain does this.
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Celo nekaj vemo o tem, kako možgani to izvedejo.
15:37
So what happens when we pay attention
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Ko smo na nekaj pozorni,
15:39
is that the prefrontal cortex, the sort of executive part of our brains,
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se od korteksa, ki je na nek način izvršilni del naših možganov,
15:42
sends a signal
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sproži signal,
15:44
that makes a little part of our brain much more flexible,
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ki majhen del možganov napravi bolj elastičen,
15:46
more plastic, better at learning,
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bolj upogibljiv, bolj učeč,
15:48
and shuts down activity
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in utiša aktivnost
15:50
in all the rest of our brains.
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v drugih delih možganov.
15:52
So we have a very focused, purpose-driven kind of attention.
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Torej imamo zelo osredotočeno in namensko vrsto pozornosti.
15:56
If we look at babies and young children,
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Če pogledamo malčke in majhen otroke,
15:58
we see something very different.
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opazimo nekaj popolnoma drugega.
16:00
I think babies and young children
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Menim, da imajo malčki in majhni otroci
16:02
seem to have more of a lantern of consciousness
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najbrž bolj svetilko zavesti
16:04
than a spotlight of consciousness.
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kot pa žaromet zavesti.
16:06
So babies and young children are very bad
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Malčki in majhni otroci niso dobri v tem,
16:09
at narrowing down to just one thing.
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kako se omejiti na zgolj eno stvar.
16:12
But they're very good at taking in lots of information
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So pa zelo dobri v tem, kako sprejemati veliko informacij
16:15
from lots of different sources at once.
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iz mnogih različnih virov naenkrat.
16:17
And if you actually look in their brains,
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In če pogledate v njihove možgane,
16:19
you see that they're flooded with these neurotransmitters
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opazite, da so preplavljeni z nevrotransmiterji,
16:22
that are really good at inducing learning and plasticity,
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ki so res dobri v tem, da spodbujajo učenje in upogibljivost,
16:24
and the inhibitory parts haven't come on yet.
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tisti del, ki utiša možgane, pa še ni razvit.
16:27
So when we say that babies and young children
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Ko rečemo, da so malčki in majhni otroci
16:29
are bad at paying attention,
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slabi v usmerjanju pozornosti,
16:31
what we really mean is that they're bad at not paying attention.
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v resnici pravzaprav mislimo, da so slabi v tem, da ne usmerjajo pozornosti.
16:35
So they're bad at getting rid
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Slabi so v tem, kako se znebiti
16:37
of all the interesting things that could tell them something
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vseh zanimivih stvari, ki bi jim lahko kaj povedale
16:39
and just looking at the thing that's important.
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in gledati samo stvar, ki je pomembna.
16:41
That's the kind of attention, the kind of consciousness,
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To je taka vrsta pozornosti, taka vrsta zavesti,
16:44
that we might expect
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ki bi jo pričakovali
16:46
from those butterflies who are designed to learn.
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od takih metuljev, ki so narejeni za učenje.
16:48
Well if we want to think about a way
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Če si hočemo zamisliti način,
16:50
of getting a taste of that kind of baby consciousness as adults,
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kako bi okusili tako otroško zavest v naši odrasli dobi,
16:54
I think the best thing is think about cases
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menim, da se je najbolje spomniti primerov,
16:56
where we're put in a new situation that we've never been in before --
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ko smo bili postavljeni v situacijo, v kateri še nismo bili --
16:59
when we fall in love with someone new,
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ko se zaljubimo v nekoga
17:01
or when we're in a new city for the first time.
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ali ko smo prvič v nekem novem mestu.
17:04
And what happens then is not that our consciousness contracts,
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Kar se zgodi je, da se naša zavest ne skrči
17:06
it expands,
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ampak se razširi,
17:08
so that those three days in Paris
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tako da se tisti trije dnevi v Parizu
17:10
seem to be more full of consciousness and experience
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zdijo bolj polni zavesti in izkustev
17:12
than all the months of being
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kot pa celi meseci, ko ste nazaj doma
17:14
a walking, talking, faculty meeting-attending zombie back home.
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in zgolj hodeči, govoreči, sestankujoči sodelavec-zombi.
17:18
And by the way, that coffee,
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In mimogrede, kava,
17:20
that wonderful coffee you've been drinking downstairs,
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ta čudovita kava, ki ste jo pili prejle spodaj,
17:22
actually mimics the effect
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dejansko posnema
17:24
of those baby neurotransmitters.
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učinek tistih otroških nevrotransmiterjev.
17:26
So what's it like to be a baby?
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Torej kako je torej biti malček?
17:28
It's like being in love
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Tako, kot da ste zaljubljeni,
17:30
in Paris for the first time
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prvič v Parizu,
17:32
after you've had three double-espressos.
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potem ko ste popili tri dvojne ekspresne kave.
17:34
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
17:37
That's a fantastic way to be,
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Fantastično počutje,
17:39
but it does tend to leave you waking up crying at three o'clock in the morning.
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vendar pa teži k temu, da se v joku zbujate ob treh zjutraj.
17:43
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
17:46
Now it's good to be a grownup.
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No, v redu je biti odrasel.
17:48
I don't want to say too much about how wonderful babies are.
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Ne bi želela govoriti preveč o tem, kako krasni so malčki.
17:50
It's good to be a grownup.
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Dobro je biti odrasel.
17:52
We can do things like tie our shoelaces and cross the street by ourselves.
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Zmoremo stvari kot je zavezovanje vezalk in samostojno prečkanje ceste.
17:55
And it makes sense that we put a lot of effort
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In smiselno je, da vložimo veliko truda v to,
17:57
into making babies think like adults do.
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da malčke pripravimo k temu, da začnejo misliti kot odrasli.
18:01
But if what we want is to be like those butterflies,
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Ampak če bi radi bili bolj kot tisti metulji,
18:04
to have open-mindedness, open learning,
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da bi imeli odprtega duha, odprtost za učenje,
18:07
imagination, creativity, innovation,
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domišljijo, ustvarjalnost, inovativnost,
18:09
maybe at least some of the time
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bi morali vsaj občasno
18:11
we should be getting the adults
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odrasle pripraviti do tega,
18:13
to start thinking more like children.
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da bi začeli misliti bolj tako kot otroci.
18:15
(Applause)
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(Aplavz)
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