The Panama Papers exposed a huge global problem. What's next? | Robert Palmer

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

[On April 3, 2016 we saw the largest data leak in history.]

[Bili smo svedoci, 3. aprila 2016, najvećeg curenja podataka u istoriji.]

[The Panama Papers exposed rich and powerful people]

[Panamski papiri su razotkrili bogate i moćne ljude]

[hiding vast amounts of money in offshore accounts.]

[kako kriju ogromne količine novca na ofšor računima.]

[What does this mean?]

[Šta ovo znači?]

[We called Robert Palmer of Global Witness to explain.]

[Pozvali smo Roberta Palmera iz Global Vitnesa da nam objasni.]

This week, there have been a whole slew and deluge of stories

Ove nedelje smo imali tmuštu i tmu priča

coming out from the leak of 11 million documents

koje su stizale iz curenja 11 miliona dokumenata

from a Panamanian-based law firm called Mossack Fonseca.

iz pravne firme sa sedištem u Panami koja se zove Mosak Fonseka.

The release of these papers from Panama lifts the veil on a tiny piece

Objavljivanje ovih papira iz Paname podiže veo sa sićušnog dela

of the secretive offshore world.

tajanstvenog sveta ofšora.

We get an insight into how clients and banks and lawyers

Imamo uvid u to kako klijenti i banke i advokati

go to companies like Mossack Fonseca

odlaze u firme, poput Mosak Fonseke,

and say, "OK, we want an anonymous company,

i kažu: "U redu, želimo anonimnu firmu,

can you give us one?"

možete li nam je osnovati?"

So you actually get to see the emails,

Pa, zapravo možete da vidite imejlove,

you get to see the exchanges of messages,

možete da vidite razmenu poruka,

you get to see the mechanics of how this works,

možete da vidite mehaniku toga kako ovo funkcioniše,

how this operates.

kako se ovo izvodi.

Now, this has already started to have pretty immediate repercussions.

Sad, ovo je već počelo da ima skoro trenutne posledice.

The Prime Minister of Iceland has resigned.

Premijer Islanda je dao ostavku.

We've also had news

Takođe smo čuli vesti

that an ally of the brutal Syrian dictator Bashar Al-Assad

da saveznik brutalnog sirijskog diktatora, Bašara el Asada,

has also got offshore companies.

takođe ima ofšor firme.

There's been allegations of a $2 billion money trail

Postoje navodi traga od dve milijarde dolara

that leads back to President Vladimir Putin of Russia

koji vodi do predsednika Rusije Vladimira Putina,

via his close childhood friend,

preko njegovog bliskog prijatelja iz detinjstva,

who happens to be a top cellist.

koji je slučajno vrhunski čelista.

And there will be a lot of rich individuals out there

A biće tu još mnogo bogatih pojedinaca

and others who will be nervous about the next set of stories

i drugih koji će da budu nervozni zbog sledećeg skupa priča,

and the next set of leaked documents.

i narednog skupa procurelih podataka.

Now, this sounds like the plot of a spy thriller

Sad, ovo zvuči poput zapleta iz špijunskog trilera

or a John Grisham novel.

ili romana Džona Grišama.

It seems very distant from you, me, ordinary people.

Čini se veoma dalekim od vas, mene, običnih ljudi.

Why should we care about this?

Zašto bi nas bilo briga za ovo?

But the truth is that if rich and powerful individuals

Ali istina je da ako su bogati i moćni pojedinci

are able to keep their money offshore

u stanju da čuvaju svoj novac u ofšorima

and not pay the taxes that they should,

i ne plaćaju porez koji bi trebalo da plaćaju,

it means that there is less money for vital public services

to znači da imamo manje novca za vitalne javne usluge,

like healthcare, education, roads.

poput zdravstva, obrazovanja, puteva.

And that affects all of us.

A to nas sve pogađa.

Now, for my organization Global Witness,

Sad, za moju organizaciju, Global Vitnes,

this exposé has been phenomenal.

ovo razotkrivanje je bilo fenomenalno.

We have the world's media and political leaders

Svetski mediji i političke vođe

talking about how individuals can use offshore secrecy

su počele da pričaju o tome kako pojedinci mogu da koriste ofšor poverljivost

to hide and disguise their assets --

kako bi prikrili svoju imovinu -

something we have been talking about and exposing for a decade.

nešto o čemu govorimo i što razotkrivamo već deceniju.

Now, I think a lot of people find this entire world baffling and confusing,

Sad, mislim da mnogi ljudi pronalaze čitav ovaj svet zbunjujućim i konfuznim

and hard to understand how this sort of offshore world works.

i teško im je da razumeju kako ovaj svet ofšora funkcioniše.

I like to think of it a bit like a Russian doll.

Volim da razmišljam o njemu pomalo kao o babuški.

So you can have one company stacked inside another company,

Pa, možete da imate jednu firmu upakovanu unutar druge firme,

stacked inside another company,

upakovanu unutar treće firme,

making it almost impossible to really understand

zbog čega je skoro nemoguće zaista razumeti

who is behind these structures.

ko stoji iza ovih struktura.

It can be very difficult for law enforcement

Može da bude veoma teško za policiju

or tax authorities, journalists, civil society

ili poreske vlasti, novinare, građansko društvo

to really understand what's going on.

da zaista shvate o čemu se radi.

I also think it's interesting

Takođe smatram zanimljivim

that there's been less coverage of this issue in the United States.

to što se ovim pitanjem manje bave u Sjedinjenim Državama.

And that's perhaps because some prominent US people

A to je možda zato što neki ugledni ljudi iz SAD-a

just haven't figured in this exposé, in this scandal.

prosto nisu otkriveni u ovom ekspozeu, u ovom skandalu.

Now, that's not because there are no rich Americans

Sad, to nije zato što nema bogatih Amerikanaca

who are stashing their assets offshore.

koji gomilaju svoju imovinu u ofšorima.

It's just because of the way in which offshore works,

Već je to zbog načina na koji ofšor funkcioniše.

Mossack Fonseca has fewer American clients.

Mosak Fonseka ima manje američkih klijenata.

I think if we saw leaks from the Cayman Islands

Mislim, da smo videli curenja sa Kajmanskih ostrva

or even from Delaware or Wyoming or Nevada,

ili čak iz Delavera ili Vajominga ili Nevade,

you would see many more cases and examples linking back to Americans.

videli biste mnogo više slučajeva i primera koji vode do Amerikanaca.

In fact, in a number of US states you need less information,

Zapravo, u brojnim državama SAD-a potrebno vam je manje informacija,

you need to provide less information to get a company

potrebno vam je manje informacija da pokrenete firmu

than you do to get a library card.

nego da dobijete člansku kartu u biblioteci.

That sort of secrecy in America has allowed employees of school districts

Takav vid poverljivosti u Americi je omogućio zaposlenima u školskim okruzima

to rip off schoolchildren.

da opljačkaju đake.

It has allowed scammers to rip off vulnerable investors.

Omogućio je prevarantima da opljačkaju ranjive investitore.

This is the sort of behavior that affects all of us.

Ovakvo ponašanje pogađa sve nas.

Now, at Global Witness,

Sad, u Global Vitnesu

we wanted to see what this actually looked like in practice.

smo želeli da vidimo kako ovo izgleda u praksi.

How does this actually work?

Kako ovo stvarno funkcioniše?

So what we did

Pa smo uradili sledeće:

is we sent in an undercover investigator to 13 Manhattan law firms.

poslali smo istraživača u tajnosti u 13 pravnih firmi na Menhetnu.

Our investigator posed as an African minister

Naš istraživač se predstavljao kao afrički ministar

who wanted to move suspect funds into the United States

koji želi da prebaci sumnjive fondove u Sjedinjene Države,

to buy a house, a yacht, a jet.

kako bi kupio kuću, jahtu, avion.

Now, what was truly shocking was that all but one of those lawyers

Sad, istinski šokantno je bilo da su svi osim jednog advokata

provided our investigator with suggestions

pružili našem istraživaču sugestije

on how to move those suspect funds.

kako da prebaci sumnjive fondove.

These were all preliminary meetings,

Ovo su sve bili preliminarni sastanci

and none of the lawyers took us on as a client

i nijedan advokat nas nije preuzeo za klijenta

and of course no money moved hands,

i, naravno, nikakav novac nije razmenjen,

but it really shows the problem with the system.

ali ovo uistinu pokazuje problem sistema.

It's also important

Takođe je važno

to not just think about this as individual cases.

da ne razmišljamo o ovome kao o pojedinačnim slučajevima.

This is not just about an individual lawyer

Ne radi se prosto o pojedinačnom advokatu,

who's spoken to our undercover investigator and provided suggestions.

koji je razgovarao s našim prikrivenim istraživačem i pružio sugestije.

It's not just about a particular senior politician

Ne radi se samo o određenom višem zvaničniku

who's been caught up in a scandal.

koji je umešan u skandal.

This is about how a system works,

Radi se o tome kako sistem funkcioniše,

that entrenches corruption, tax evasion, poverty and instability.

tako što učvršćuje korupciju, utaju poreza, siromaštvo i nestabilnost.

And in order to tackle this,

A kako bismo se bavili ovim,

we need to change the game.

moramo da promenimo igru.

We need to change the rules of the game

Moramo da promenimo pravila igre

to make this sort of behavior harder.

kako bismo otežali ovakvo ponašanje.

This may seem like doom and gloom,

Ovo se može učiniti kao beznadežna situacija,

like there's nothing we can do about it,

nešto povodom čega ne možemo bilo šta,

like nothing has ever changed,

kao da se ništa nikad ne menja,

like there will always be rich and powerful individuals.

kao da će uvek da postoje bogati i moćni pojedinci.

But as a natural optimist,

Ali kao optimista po prirodi,

I do see that we are starting to get some change.

vidim da počinjemo da dobijamo neke promene.

Over the last couple of years,

U proteklih nekoliko godina,

we've seen a real push towards greater transparency

videli smo istinski pomak ka većoj transparentnosti,

when it comes to company ownership.

kad se radi o vlasništvu firmi.

This issue was put on the political agenda

Ovo pitanje je na politički dnevni red stavio

by the UK Prime Minister David Cameron

premijer Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva, Dejvid Kameron,

at a big G8 Summit that was held in Northern Ireland in 2013.

na velikom samitu G8 koji je održan u Severnoj Irskoj 2013.

And since then, the European Union is going to be creating

A od tada, Evropska Unija će da osniva

central registers at a national level

centralne registre na nacionalnom nivou

of who really owns and controls companies across Europe.

o tome ko zaista poseduje i upravlja firmama širom Evrope.

One of the things that is sad is that, actually, the US is lagging behind.

Jedna od tužnih stvari je da zapravo SAD zaostaju.

There's bipartisan legislation that had been introduced

Postoji dvostranački zakon koji je predstavljen

in the House and the Senate,

u Predstavničkom domu i u Senatu,

but it isn't making as much progress as we'd like to see.

ali ne ostvaruje napredak kakav bismo želeli da vidimo.

So we'd really want to see the Panama leaks,

Pa bismo zaista voleli da vidimo kako se curenje iz Paname,

this huge peek into the offshore world,

ovo veliko virenje u svet ofšora,

be used as a way of opening up in the US and around the world.

koristi kao način za pokretanje diskusije u SAD-u i širom sveta.

For us at Global Witness, this is a moment for change.

Za nas u Global Vitnesu, ovo je prekretnički momenat.

We need ordinary people to get angry

Potrebno nam je da se obični ljudi naljute

at the way in which people can hide their identity

na način na koji ljudi mogu da sakriju svoje identitete

behind secret companies.

iza tajnih firmi.

We need business leaders to stand up and say,

Potrebno nam je da se poslovne vođe usprotive i kažu:

"Secrecy like this is not good for business."

"Ovakva poverljivost nije dobra za poslovanje."

We need political leaders to recognize the problem,

Potrebno nam je da političke vođe prepoznaju problem

and to commit to changing the law to open up this sort of secrecy.

i da se obavežu da će da promene zakon i da razotkriju ovaj vid poverljivosti.

Together, we can end the secrecy

Zajedno možemo da okončamo poverljivost

that is currently allowing tax evasion,

koja trenutno omogućuje utaji poreza,

corruption, money laundering to flourish.

korupciji, pranju novca da cvetaju.