The Panama Papers exposed a huge global problem. What's next? | Robert Palmer

Translator: Klavdija Cernilogar Reviewer: Matej Divjak

[On April 3, 2016 we saw the largest data leak in history.]

[3. aprila 2016 smo bili priča največjemu razkritju podatkov v zgodovini.]

[The Panama Papers exposed rich and powerful people]

[Panamski dokumenti so razkrinkali bogate in močne ljudi,]

[hiding vast amounts of money in offshore accounts.]

[ki so v davčnih oazah skrivali ogromne vsote denarja.]

[What does this mean?]

[Kaj to pomeni?]

[We called Robert Palmer of Global Witness to explain.]

[Za razlago smo poklicali Roberta Palmerja iz Global Witness.]

This week, there have been a whole slew and deluge of stories

Ta teden so nas preplavile zgodbe,

coming out from the leak of 11 million documents

ki izhajajo iz razkritja 11 milijonov dokumentov

from a Panamanian-based law firm called Mossack Fonseca.

odvetniške družbe Mossack Fonseca s sedežem v Panami.

The release of these papers from Panama lifts the veil on a tiny piece

Objava teh panamskih dokumentov odgrinja tančico majhnega dela

of the secretive offshore world.

skrivnostnega sveta davčnih oaz.

We get an insight into how clients and banks and lawyers

Pokaže nam, kako stranke, banke in odvetniki

go to companies like Mossack Fonseca

podjetjem, kakršno je Mossack Fonseca,

and say, "OK, we want an anonymous company,

naročijo: "Želimo imeti anonimno podjetje,

can you give us one?"

nam ga lahko odprete?"

So you actually get to see the emails,

Zdaj lahko vidimo elektronska sporočila, izmenjave sporočil,

you get to see the exchanges of messages,

you get to see the mechanics of how this works,

vidimo, kako to deluje,

how this operates.

kako funkcionira.

Now, this has already started to have pretty immediate repercussions.

In to je imelo kar takojšnje posledice.

The Prime Minister of Iceland has resigned.

Islandski premier je odstopil.

We've also had news

Izvedeli smo tudi,

that an ally of the brutal Syrian dictator Bashar Al-Assad

da ima neki zaveznik sirskega diktatorja Bašarja Al Asada

has also got offshore companies.

podjetja v davčnih oazah.

There's been allegations of a $2 billion money trail

Obstajajo navedbe o dveh milijardah dolarjev,

that leads back to President Vladimir Putin of Russia

povezanih z ruskim predsednikom Vladimirjem Putinom

via his close childhood friend,

preko tesnega prijatelja iz otroštva,

who happens to be a top cellist.

ki je tudi priznan čelist.

And there will be a lot of rich individuals out there

In veliko bogatih posameznikov

and others who will be nervous about the next set of stories

in drugih ljudi bo živčnih zaradi naslednjega dela zgodb

and the next set of leaked documents.

in prihodnjih razkritij.

Now, this sounds like the plot of a spy thriller

To se sliši kot zgodba za vohunski triler

or a John Grisham novel.

ali roman Johna Grishama.

It seems very distant from you, me, ordinary people.

Zdi se daleč od vas, mene, od navadnih ljudi.

Why should we care about this?

Zakaj nas to sploh zanima?

But the truth is that if rich and powerful individuals

Dejstvo je, da če lahko bogati in močni posamezniki

are able to keep their money offshore

denar hranijo v davčnih oazah

and not pay the taxes that they should,

ter se izmikajo davkom,

it means that there is less money for vital public services

to pomeni manj denarja za ključne javne storitve,

like healthcare, education, roads.

kot so zdravstvo, izobraževanje, ceste.

And that affects all of us.

To pa vpliva na vse nas.

Now, for my organization Global Witness,

Za mojo organizacijo Global Witness

this exposé has been phenomenal.

je bilo to razkritje fenomenalno.

We have the world's media and political leaders

Svetovni mediji in politični voditelji

talking about how individuals can use offshore secrecy

govorijo o tem, kako lahko ljudje izkoriščajo tajnost oaz

to hide and disguise their assets --

in skrivajo svoje premoženje -

something we have been talking about and exposing for a decade.

o tem mi govorimo že desetletje.

Now, I think a lot of people find this entire world baffling and confusing,

Veliko ljudem se zdi ta svet begajoč in zapleten,

and hard to understand how this sort of offshore world works.

težko je razumeti, kako deluje svet davčnih oaz.

I like to think of it a bit like a Russian doll.

Jaz na to gledam kot na rusko babuško.

So you can have one company stacked inside another company,

Obstaja podjetje znotraj drugega podjetja,

stacked inside another company,

ki je znotraj še enega podjetja,

making it almost impossible to really understand

zato je skoraj nemogoče razumeti,

who is behind these structures.

kdo stoji za temi strukturami.

It can be very difficult for law enforcement

Za pravosodje ali za davkarijo,

or tax authorities, journalists, civil society

za novinarje in civilno družbo je težko

to really understand what's going on.

razumeti, kaj se dogaja.

I also think it's interesting

Zanimivo se mi tudi zdi,

that there's been less coverage of this issue in the United States.

da ZDA te zgodbe niso veliko pokrivale.

And that's perhaps because some prominent US people

Morda zato, ker v dokumentih ni bilo

just haven't figured in this exposé, in this scandal.

nekaterih pomembnih Američanov.

Now, that's not because there are no rich Americans

Pa ne zato, ker bogati Američani

who are stashing their assets offshore.

ne bi skrivali premoženja v oazah.

It's just because of the way in which offshore works,

Zaradi načina, na katerega delujejo davčne oaze,

Mossack Fonseca has fewer American clients.

ima Mossack Fonseca pač manj ameriških strank.

I think if we saw leaks from the Cayman Islands

Mislim da če bi šlo za razkritja s Kajmanskih otokov

or even from Delaware or Wyoming or Nevada,

ali držav Delaware, Wyoming ali Nevada,

you would see many more cases and examples linking back to Americans.

bi bilo veliko več primerov povezanih z Američani.

In fact, in a number of US states you need less information,

Pravzaprav v veliko zveznih držav ZDA potrebujete manj podatkov,

you need to provide less information to get a company

da bi odprli podjetje,

than you do to get a library card.

kot jih potrebujete za včlanitev v knjižnico.

That sort of secrecy in America has allowed employees of school districts

Takšna tajnost v ZDA omogoča uslužbencem šol,

to rip off schoolchildren.

da goljufajo učence.

It has allowed scammers to rip off vulnerable investors.

Goljufi lahko prevarajo ranljive vlagatelje.

This is the sort of behavior that affects all of us.

Tako obnašanje vpliva na vse nas.

Now, at Global Witness,

Pri Global Witness

we wanted to see what this actually looked like in practice.

smo hoteli pogledati, kako to izgleda v praksi.

How does this actually work?

Kako pravzaprav deluje?

So what we did

Tole smo storili:

is we sent in an undercover investigator to 13 Manhattan law firms.

skrivnega preiskovalca smo poslali v trinajst odvetniških družb na Manhattnu.

Our investigator posed as an African minister

Izdajal se je za ministra iz Afrike,

who wanted to move suspect funds into the United States

ki je sumljiv denar hotel prenesti v ZDA

to buy a house, a yacht, a jet.

in kupiti hišo, jahto, letalo.

Now, what was truly shocking was that all but one of those lawyers

Šokiralo nas je, da so vsi razen enega odvetnika

provided our investigator with suggestions

preiskovalcu dali predloge,

on how to move those suspect funds.

kako prenesti sumljiv denar.

These were all preliminary meetings,

To so bila začetna srečanja

and none of the lawyers took us on as a client

in noben odvetnik nas ni vzel za svojo stranko

and of course no money moved hands,

in seveda ni bilo nobene finančne transakcije,

but it really shows the problem with the system.

a stvar je pokazala na težavo v sistemu.

It's also important

Pomembno je tudi,

to not just think about this as individual cases.

da na to ne gledamo le kot na posamezne primere.

This is not just about an individual lawyer

Ne gre le za posameznega odvetnika,

who's spoken to our undercover investigator and provided suggestions.

ki je govoril s preiskovalcem in mu dal predloge.

It's not just about a particular senior politician

Ne gre le za pomembnega politika,

who's been caught up in a scandal.

ki se je ujel v škandal.

This is about how a system works,

Gre za to, kako sistem deluje,

that entrenches corruption, tax evasion, poverty and instability.

kako vzdržuje korupcijo, izogibanje davkom, revščino, nestabilnost.

And in order to tackle this,

Da bi se spopadli s tem,

we need to change the game.

moramo spremeniti igro.

We need to change the rules of the game

Spremeniti moramo pravila igre,

to make this sort of behavior harder.

da bo tako obnašanje težje.

This may seem like doom and gloom,

Morda se sliši brezupno,

like there's nothing we can do about it,

kot da ne moremo storiti nič,

like nothing has ever changed,

kot da se nič ne spremeni,

like there will always be rich and powerful individuals.

kot da bodo vedno obstajali bogati in močni posamezniki.

But as a natural optimist,

Kot optimist po naravi

I do see that we are starting to get some change.

pa vidim, da se nekaj spreminja.

Over the last couple of years,

Zadnjih nekaj let

we've seen a real push towards greater transparency

se večajo zahteve po transparentnosti

when it comes to company ownership.

pri lastništvu podjetij.

This issue was put on the political agenda

Zadevo je na politični dnevni red

by the UK Prime Minister David Cameron

postavil David Cameron, premier Velike Britanije,

at a big G8 Summit that was held in Northern Ireland in 2013.

na vrhu G8 leta 2013 na Severnem Irskem.

And since then, the European Union is going to be creating

Odtlej Evropska unija ustanavlja

central registers at a national level

centralne registre na ravni držav.

of who really owns and controls companies across Europe.

Tam piše, kdo je v resnici lastnik in nadzornik podjetij po Evropi.

One of the things that is sad is that, actually, the US is lagging behind.

Žalostno je, da ZDA v tem zaostajajo.

There's bipartisan legislation that had been introduced

Dvostrankarska zakonodaja je bila vložena

in the House and the Senate,

v kongres in senat,

but it isn't making as much progress as we'd like to see.

a ne napreduje, kot bi morala.

So we'd really want to see the Panama leaks,

Res bi radi, da bi panamski dokumenti,

this huge peek into the offshore world,

ta vpogled v svet davčnih oaz,

be used as a way of opening up in the US and around the world.

pomagali k večji odprtosti ZDA in ostalega sveta.

For us at Global Witness, this is a moment for change.

Za Global Witness je to trenutek spremembe.

We need ordinary people to get angry

Navadni ljudje se morajo razjeziti

at the way in which people can hide their identity

na to, kako drugi lahko skrivajo svojo identiteto

behind secret companies.

za tajnimi podjetji.

We need business leaders to stand up and say,

Poslovneži se morajo oglasiti ter povedati,

"Secrecy like this is not good for business."

da taka tajnost ni dobra za posel.

We need political leaders to recognize the problem,

Politični voditelji morajo prepoznati problem

and to commit to changing the law to open up this sort of secrecy.

in se zavezati k spremembam zakonov, da bi razkrili tovrstno tajnost.

Together, we can end the secrecy

Skupaj lahko končamo to tajnost,

that is currently allowing tax evasion,

ki omogoča izogibanje davkom,

corruption, money laundering to flourish.

korupcijo, pranje denarja.