How to buy happiness | Michael Norton

Translator: Jenny Zurawell

Translator: Klavdija Cernilogar Reviewer: Lenka Tušar

Danes bi rad govoril o dveh stvareh - o denarju in sreči,

So I want to talk today about money and happiness,

gre za dve zadevi,

which are two things a lot of us spend a lot of our time thinking about,

o katerih ljudje veliko razmišljamo -

ali ju poskušamo zaslužiti ali pa povečati.

either trying to earn them or trying to increase them.

And a lot of us resonate with this phrase,

In veliko si nas ponavlja ta stavek.

V verskih knjigah in v knjigah za samopomoč beremo,

we see it in religions and self-help books:

da denar ne more kupiti sreče.

money can't buy happiness.

In danes vam želim povedati, da to ne drži.

And I want to suggest today that, in fact, that's wrong.

(Smeh)

(Laughter)

Sem na poslovni šoli in to pač tam počnemo.

I'm at a business school, so that's what we do.

To torej ne drži in če v bistvu mislite tako,

So that's wrong,

and in fact, if you think that, you're just not spending it right.

denarja le ne zapravljate za prave stvari.

So instead of spending it the way you usually spend it,

Če bi denar enkrat za spremembo porabili za kaj drugega kot običajno,

če bi ga morda porabili drugače,

maybe if you spent it differently, that might work a little bit better.

bi se moja trditev zdela nekoliko bolj verjetna.

In preden vam povem, kako denar porabiti tako, da vas bo to osrečilo,

Before I tell you the ways you can spend it that will make you happier,

pomislimo, kako ga običajno zapravimo,

let's think about the ways we usually spend it

kar nas v bistvu ne naredi nič srečnejših.

that don't, in fact, make us happier.

Naredili smo manjši resnični poskus.

We had a little natural experiment.

Na CNN so pred kratkim napisali ta zanimiv članek,

So CNN, a little while ago, wrote this interesting article

ki govori o tem, kaj se zgodi ljudem, ko zadenejo na loteriji.

on what happens to people when they win the lottery.

It turns out people think when they win the lottery

Ljudje mislijo, da bo njihovo življenje, ko zadenejo na loteriji, postalo čudovito.

their lives will be amazing.

Ta članek govori o tem, kako si uničijo življenje.

This article's about how their lives get ruined.

Torej, kaj se zgodi, ko ljudje zadenejo na loteriji:

What happens when people win the lottery

prvič, zapravijo ves denar in zapadejo v dolgove,

is, one, they spend all the money and go into debt;

in drugič, vsi njihovi prijatelji in znanci

and two, all of their friends and everyone they've ever met

jih poiščejo in jim težijo za denar.

find them and bug them for money.

In tako se pravzaprav uničijo njihovi medosebni odnosi.

It ruins their social relationships, in fact.

Tako so v večjih dolgovih in imajo slabše odnose s prijatelji,

So they have more debt and worse friendships

kot preden so zadeli na loteriji.

than they had before they won the lottery.

Zanimivo pri tem članku je bilo,

What was interesting about the article was,

da so ga bralci začeli komentirati.

people started commenting on the article, readers of the thing.

Namesto da bi govorili o tem,

And instead of talking about how it made them realize

kako so se po tem, ko so članek prebrali, začeli zavedati, da denar ne prinese sreče,

that money doesn't lead to happiness,

so vsi takoj začeli govoriti:

everyone started saying, "You know what I'd do if I won the lottery ...?"

"Če bi zadel na loteriji, bi ..."

in fantazirati o tem, kaj bi naredili.

and fantasizing about what they'd do.

Tukaj sta dva komentarja, o katerih je res zanimivo razmisliti.

Here's just two of the ones we saw that are interesting to think about.

Nekdo je napisal: "Če zadenem, si bom kupil svojo lastno goro

One person wrote, "When I win, I'm going to buy my own little mountain

in na vrhu postavil hišico."

and have a little house on top."

(Smeh)

(Laughter)

And another person wrote, "I would fill a big bathtub with money

Nekdo drug pa je napisal: "Veliko banjo bi napolnil z denarjem,

and get in the tub while smoking a big fat cigar

ležal v njej in kadil veliko cigaro

ter srkal šampanjec."

and sipping a glass of champagne."

This is even worse: "... then I'd have a picture taken

Ta je pa še hujša: "Potem bi se fotografiral

in razvil na ducate fotografij na najboljšem bleščečem papirju.

and dozens of glossies made.

Anyone begging for money or trying to extort from me

Vsak, ki bi me prosil za denar ali me izsiljeval,

bi dobil tako fotografijo in čisto nič drugega."

would receive a copy of the picture and nothing else."

(Smeh)

(Laughter)

And so many of the comments were exactly of this type,

In bilo je še veliko podobnih komentarjev,

v kateri so ljudje dobili denar

where people got money and, in fact, it made them antisocial.

in zaradi tega postali asocialni.

So I told you it ruins people's lives and their friends bug them.

Povedal sem vam, da denar ljudem uniči življenje in da jim drugi težijo zanj.

Also, money often makes us feel very selfish

Še to, zaradi denarja pogosto postanemo zelo sebični

in vse delamo le sami zase.

and we do things only for ourselves.

We thought maybe the reason money doesn't make us happy

Mogoče pa je razlog za to, da nas denar ne osreči

v tem, da ga vedno potrošimo za napačne stvari,

is that we're spending it on the wrong things;

še posebej pa v tem, da ga vedno zapravimo le zase.

in particular, we're always spending it on ourselves.

Pomislili smo, kaj bi se zgodilo,

And we wondered what would happen

if we made people spend more of their money on others.

če bi ljudje več denarja zapravili za druge.

Kaj če bi namesto tega, da ves denar obdržite zase,

So instead of being antisocial with your money,

what if you were more pro-social with it?

postali malo bolj družbeno usmerjeni glede svojega denarja?

We thought, let's make people do it and see what happens.

In tako smo se odločili, da to preizkusimo na ljudeh in vidimo, kaj se bo zgodilo.

Nekaj ljudi naj počne, kar običajno počnejo,

Let's have some people do what they usually do,

in naj zapravijo denar zase,

spend money on themselves,

nekaj ljudem pa naročimo, naj denar dajo drugim,

and let's make some people give money away,

mi pa bomo ocenili stopnjo zadovoljstva in videli, ali postanejo srečnejši.

and measure their happiness and see if, in fact, they get happier.

In tako smo naredili.

The first way we did this was, one Vancouver morning,

V Vancouvru smo nekega jutra odšli v študentsko naselje

we went out on the campus at University of British Columbia,

Univerze Britanska Kolumbija

approached people and said, "Do you want to be in an experiment?"

in ljudi vprašali, če bi hoteli sodelovati v poskusu.

Strinjali so se.

They said, "Yes."

Vprašali smo jih, kako srečni so, nato pa smo jim dali kuverto.

We asked them how happy they were, and then gave them an envelope.

V eni od kuvert je pisalo:

One of the envelopes had things in it that said,

"Do petih popoldne ves ta denar zapravi zase."

"By 5pm today, spend this money on yourself."

Dali smo jim nekaj predlogov, kako lahko porabijo denar.

We gave some examples of what you could spend it on.

Drugi pa so zjutraj dobili listek, na katerem je pisalo:

Other people got a slip of paper that said,

"Do petih popoldne ta denar porabite za nekoga drugega."

"By 5pm today, spend this money on somebody else."

V kuverti je bil tudi denar.

Also inside the envelope was money.

Vsem tudi nismo dali enako veliko denarja.

And we manipulated how much money we gave them;

Nekateri so dobili listek in pet dolarjev.

some people got this slip of paper and five dollars,

Drugi so dobili listek in 20 dolarjev.

some got this slip of paper and 20 dollars.

Rekli smo jim, da lahko gredo po svojih opravkih in počenjo, kar jih je volja.

We let them go about their day and do whatever they wanted.

Ugotovili smo, da so denar res porabili tako, kot smo jim naročili.

We found out they did spend it in the way we asked them to.

Zvečer smo jih poklicali in jih vprašali,

We called them up and asked them, "What did you spend it on?

kako so porabili denar in kako srečne se počutijo sedaj.

How happy do you feel now?"

Za kaj so porabili denar?

What did they spend it on?

These are college undergrads;

Šlo je za študente in z denarjem, ki so ga porabili zase, so si kupili

a lot of what they spent it on for themselves

na primer uhane ali ličila.

were things like earrings and makeup.

Neka ženska je rekla, da je za svojo nečakinjo kupila plišasto igračo.

One woman said she bought a stuffed animal for her niece.

Denar so dali brezdomcem.

People gave money to homeless people.

Starbucks je imel ogromen vpliv.

Huge effect here of Starbucks.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So if you give undergraduates five dollars,

Če daš študentom pet dolarjev, jih povežejo s kavo

it looks like coffee to them,

and they run over to Starbucks and spend it as fast as they can.

in kakor hitro morejo, odhitijo v Starbucks.

Nekateri so si privoščili svojo običajno kavo,

Some people bought coffee for themselves, the way they usually would,

drugi pa so rekli, da so kavo kupili nekomu drugemu.

but others bought coffee for somebody else.

Isti nakup,

So the very same purchase,

ki ga lahko namenimo sebi

just targeted toward yourself or targeted toward somebody else.

ali nekomu drugemu.

What did we find when we called at the end of the day?

Kaj smo ugotovili, ko smo ljudi zvečer poklicali?

Ljudje, ki so denar porabili za druge, so bili srečnejši.

People who spent money on others got happier;

Pri ljudeh, ki so denar zapravili zase, se ni zgodilo nič.

people who spent it on themselves, nothing happened.

Niso bili nič manj srečni, to enostavno ni kaj dosti vplivalo nanje.

It didn't make them less happy, it just didn't do much for them.

Videli smo tudi, da vsota denarja ne igra kakšne posebne vloge.

The other thing we saw is the amount of money doesn't matter much.

Ljudje so pač mislili, da je 20 dolarjev bolje kot 5.

People thought 20 dollars would be way better than five.

Pravzaprav sploh ni važno, koliko denarja si zapravil.

In fact, it doesn't matter how much money you spent.

Kar res šteje, je to, da si denar namesto sebi

What really matters is that you spent it on somebody else

namenil nekomu drugemu.

rather than on yourself.

To opažamo vedno znova in znova,

We see this again and again

when we give people money to spend on others instead of on themselves.

ko ljudem damo denar in jim rečemo, naj ga namesto zase porabijo za druge.

Of course, these are undergraduates in Canada --

Seveda, tu gre za kanadske študente,

ki niso ravno najbolj reprezentativen svetovni vzorec.

not the world's most representative population.

So razmeroma premožni in še vse ostalo.

They're also fairly wealthy and affluent and other sorts of things.

Hoteli smo preveriti, ali to drži tudi povsod drugje po svetu

We wanted to see if this holds true everywhere in the world

ali le v bogatih državah.

or just among wealthy countries.

So we went to Uganda and ran a very similar experiment.

Zato smo šli v Ugando in tam naredili podoben poskus.

Če si predstavljate, v Kanadi

Imagine, instead of just people in Canada, we say,

smo rekli: "Povejte, kdaj ste nazadnje porabili denar za nekoga drugega.

"Name the last time you spent money on yourself or others.

Opišite to. Kako srečne ste se počutili po tem?"

Describe it. How happy did it make you?"

V Ugandi pa: "Povejte, kdaj ste denar porabili

Or in Uganda, "Name the last time you spent money on yourself or others

zase ali za druge ljudi in opišite to."

and describe that."

In potem smo jih spet vprašali, kako srečni so.

Then we asked them how happy they are, again.

Kar opažamo, je kar presenetljivo,

And what we see is sort of amazing,

saj med ljudmi obstajajo čisto univerzalni načini, kaj narediti z denarjem,

because there's human universals on what you do with your money,

hkrati pa glede tega tudi prave kulturne razlike.

and real cultural differences on what you do as well.

Na primer,

So for example, one guy from Uganda says this:

en fant iz Ugande je rekel tole.

Rekel je: "Poklical sem ljubljeno dekle."

"I called a girl I wished to love."

V bistvu sta šla na zmenek

They basically went out on a date,

and he says at the end that he didn't "achieve" her up till now.

in na koncu pravi, da je do sedaj ni osvojil.

Tu je fant in Kanade.

(Laughter)

Here's a guy from Canada.

Zelo podobna zadeva.

Very similar thing.

"Svoje dekle sem peljal na večerjo.

"I took my girlfriend out for dinner.

Šla sva v kino, zgodaj odšla

We went to a movie, we left early,

and then went back to her room for ... cake," just cake.

in se vrnila v njeno sobo ter si privoščila ..." torto - le kos torte.

(Laughter)

Univerzalno za vse ljudi - če denar porabiš za druge,

Human universal:

si dober do njih.

you spend money on others, you're being nice.

Mogoče se ti kaj plete po glavi, mogoče ne.

Maybe you have something in mind, maybe not.

Ampak opažamo ogromne razlike.

But then we see extraordinary differences.

Poglejmo si ti dve izjavi.

So look at these two.

This is a woman from Canada.

Tu gre za žensko iz Kanade.

We say, "Name a time you spent money on somebody else."

Vprašali smo: "Kdaj ste porabili denar za koga drugega?"

She says, "I bought a present for my mom.

Ona je odgovorila: "Svoji mami sem kupila darilo.

I drove to the mall, bought a present, gave it to my mom."

Odpeljala sem se v nakupovalno središče, kupila darilo in ga dala svoji mami."

Čisto lepa gesta.

Perfectly nice thing to do.

It's good to get gifts for people you know.

Lepo je obdarovati svoje bližnje.

Primerjajte to z žensko iz Ugande.

Compare that to this woman from Uganda:

"Med pešačenjem sem srečala dolgoletno prijateljico,

"I was walking and met a longtime friend whose son was sick with malaria.

katere sin je zbolel za malarijo.

Bili so brez denarja, sin je bil v bolnici in jaz sem ji dala ta denar."

They had no money, they went to a clinic and I gave her this money."

Tu ne gre za 10.000 dolarjev, gre za lokalno valuto.

This isn't $10,000, it's the local currency.

So it's a very small amount of money, in fact.

Pravzaprav gre za zelo malo denraja.

But enormously different motivations here.

A motivacija tu je popolnoma drugačna.

Gre za resnično zdravstveno potrebo,

This is a real medical need, literally a lifesaving donation.

dobesedno za donacijo, ki rešuje življenje.

Above, it's just kind of, I bought a gift for my mother.

Zgoraj gre pač za "mami sem kupila darilo".

Kar spet vidimo,

What we see again, though,

je to, da način, kako denar porabite za druge,

is that the specific way you spend on other people isn't nearly as important

ni niti približno tako pomemben,

as the fact that you spend on other people in order to make yourself happy,

kot je dejstvo, da ste ga porabili za druge

zato, da bi osrečili sebe,

which is really quite important.

kar je res precej pomembno.

So you don't have to do amazing things with your money

Da bi se osrečili, vam denarja ni treba nameniti za neke izjemne stvari.

to make yourself happy.

Lahko naredite majhne, nepomembne stvari in še vedno doživite vse dobrobiti takih dejanj.

You can do small, trivial things and still get the benefits from doing this.

Gre za le dve državi.

These are only two countries.

Hoteli smo iti še korak naprej in pogledati v vsako državo, v katero smo lahko,

We wanted to look at every country in the world if we could,

in videti, kakšen je odnos med denarjem in srečo.

to see what the relationship is between money and happiness.

We got data from the Gallup Organization,

Podatke smo dobili od organizacije Gallup,

which you know from all the political polls happening lately.

ki jo poznate po vseh političnih raziskavah, ki so bile opravljene v zadnjem času.

They asked people, "Did you donate money to charity recently?"

Ljudi so spraševali: "Ste v zadnjem času darovali denar v dobrodelne namene?"

Vprašali so jih tudi: "Kako zadovoljni ste na splošno s svojim življenjem?"

and, "How happy are you with life in general?"

In lahko vidimo, v kakšnem odnosu sta ti dve stvari.

We can see what the relationship is between those two things.

Sta pozitivno povezani? To, da daruješ denar, te osreči.

Are they positively correlated, giving money makes you happy?

Ali sta v negativen odnosu?

Or are they negatively correlated?

Na tem zemeljevidu zelena pomeni, da sta v pozitivnem odnosu,

On this map, green will mean they're positively correlated,

rdeča pa pomeni, da sta v negativnem odnosu.

red means they're negatively correlated.

Lahko vidite, da je svet nenormalno zelen.

And you can see, the world is crazily green.

Torej so ljudje v skoraj vsaki državi na svetu,

So in almost every country in the world where we have this data,

za katero imamo te podatke,

people who give money to charity are happier people

če darujejo denar v dobrodelne namene, srečnejši

kot tisti, ki tega ne počno.

than people who don't give money to charity.

Vem, da vsi gledate tole rdečo državo na sredini.

I know you're looking at the red country in the middle.

I would be a jerk and not tell you what it is,

Lahko bi bil kreten in vam ne bi povedal, za kaj gre,

a v bistvu gre za Centralnoafriško republiko.

but it's Central African Republic.

You can make up stories.

Lahko napletate razne zgodbe. Lahko gre za take ali drugačne razloge.

Maybe it's different there for some reason.

Pod njo se nahaja Ruanda,

Just below that to the right is Rwanda, though,

ki je presenetljivo zelena.

which is amazingly green.

Torej skoraj povsod, kamor pogledamo,

So almost everywhere we look,

we see that giving money away makes you happier

vidimo, da darovanje denarja ljudi bolj osreči,

kot če bi ga imeli le zase.

than keeping it for yourself.

What about work, which is where we spend the rest of our time,

Kaj pa vaša služba, kjer preživite ves preostanek svojega časa,

when we're not with the people we know.

ko niste z ljudmi, ki jih poznate?

We decided to infiltrate some companies and do a very similar thing.

Odločili smo se, da bomo šli v nekaj podjetij in poskusili s podobno zadevo.

To so prodajne skupine v Belgiji.

These are sales teams in Belgium.

They work in teams, go out and sell to doctors

Delajo v skupinah; na terenu prodajajo zdravnikom

in jih prepričujejo, da kupijo zdravila.

and try to get them to buy drugs.

Lahko pogledamo in vidimo, kako dobro prodajajo,

We can look and see how well they sell things

as a function of being a member of a team.

ker so del skupine.

Nekaterim ekipam damo več denarja za lastno porabo

We give people on some teams some money

in rečemo: "Potrošite ga zase, kakor hočete,"

"Spend it however you want on yourself,"

tako kot smo naredili s študenti v Kanadi.

just like we did with the undergrads in Canada.

Drugim ekipam pa damo 15 evrov

To other teams we say, "Here's 15 euro. Spend it on one of your teammates.

in jim naročimo, naj jih ta teden porabijo za druge člane ekipe.

"Kupite jim kako darilo."

Buy them something as a gift and give it to them.

Potem lahko vidimo, kaj se zgodi z ekipami, kjer ljudje denar porabijo zase,

Then we can see, we've got teams that spend on themselves

in s temi drugimi bolj socialnimi ekipami,

and these pro-social teams who we give money to make the team better.

ki imajo denar zato, da izboljšajo delovanje tima.

The reason I have a ridiculous pinata there

Tule imam tole smešno igračko,

is one team pooled their money and bought a pinata,

to pa zato, ker je ena od ekip s skupnim denarjem kupila to stvarco,

potem so jo skupaj razbili in iz nje so se vsuli bonboni.

they smashed the pinata, the candy fell out and things like that.

Zelo neumna, trivialna stvar,

A silly, trivial thing to do,

but think of the difference on a team that didn't do that at all,

ampak pomislite na razlike med ekipo, ki ni storila tega,

kjer so ljudje svojih 15 evrov in jih pospravili v žep

that got 15 euro, put it in their pocket, maybe bought themselves a coffee,

si morda privoščili kavo,

or teams that had this pro-social experience

ter ekipo, ki je imela to prosocialno izkušnjo,

where they bonded together to buy something and do a group activity.

ki jih je povezala v skupno aktivnost.

Vidimo, da so ekipe, ki so bolj prosocialne, uspešnejše pri prodaji

What we see is that the teams that are pro-social sell more stuff

kot tiste, ki spravijo denar zase.

than the teams that only got money for themselves.

Na to lahko gledamo tudi tako:

One way to think of it is: for every 15 euro you give people for themselves,

za vsakih 15 evrov, ki jih ljudje dobijo zase,

ta denar spravijo v žep in ne spremenijo ničesar.

they put it in their pocket and don't do anything different than before.

Od tega ni dobička.

You don't get money from that;

Pravzaprav je izguba, saj jih denar ne motivira, da bi bolje delali.

you lose money, since it doesn't motivate them to perform better.

Ko pa jim date 15 evrov, da jih porabijo za sodelavce,

But when you give them 15 euro to spend on their teammates,

veliko bolje delajo v ekipi,

they do so much better on their teams

tako da imate od takega vložka pravzaprav velik dobiček.

that you actually get a huge win on investing this kind of money.

Vem, da si morda mislite,

You're probably thinking to yourselves, this is all fine,

to je vse super,

but there's a context that's incredibly important for public policy,

ampak v kontekstu javnih politik

to ne more delovati.

and I can't imagine it would work there.

In če mi ta človek ne dokaže, da deluje tudi tam,

And if he doesn't show me that it works here,

mu ne bom verjel niti besedice.

I don't believe anything he said.

Verjetno razmišljate o igrah z žogo, kjer je treba zadeti nasprotnika.

I know what you're all thinking about are dodgeball teams.

(smeh)

(Laughter)

This was a huge criticism that we got,

Kritizirali so nas, češ,

that if you can't show it with dodgeball teams, this is all stupid.

če ne deluje pri igrah z žogo, potem je to vse neumnost.

Zato smo šli iskat take ekipe

So we went and found these dodgeball teams and infiltrated them,

in se infiltrirali vanje.

Naredili smo isto stvar kot prej.

and did the exact same thing as before.

Nekaterim ekipam smo naročili, naj denar potrošijo zase.

So we give people on some teams money to spend on themselves.

Drugim smo ga dali,

Other teams, we give them money to spend on their dodgeball teammates.

naj ga potrošijo na druge člane ekipe.

The teams that spend money on themselves

Tisti, ki so ga porabili zase,

have the same winning percentages as before.

so imeli enak odstotek zmag kot prej.

Tisti, ki so ga porabili za druge,

The teams we give the money to spend on each other

so postali drugačne ekipe

become different teams;

they dominate the league by the time they're done.

in so na koncu ciklusa dominirali v svoji ligi.

V vseh teh različnih kontekstih...

Across all of these different contexts --

v osebnem življenju, na delovnem mestu,

your personal life, you work life, even things like intramural sports --

celo pri športih na omejenem igrišču...

we see spending on other people has a bigger return for you

vam trošenje denarja v korist drugih prinese večji dobiček,

kot če bi ga porabili zase.

than spending on yourself.

So if you think money can't buy happiness, you're not spending it right.

Zato bom rekel samo: če mislite, da vam denar ne more kupiti sreče,

ga ne trošite pravilno.

The implication isn't you should buy this product instead of that product,

Ne mislim, da bi morali kupiti ta izdelek namesto onega

in se tako bolj osrečiti.

and that's the way to make yourself happier.

Morali bi nehati razmišljati

It's that you should stop thinking about which product to buy for yourself,

o tem, kaj kupiti zase,

temveč namesto tega kaj dati drugim.

and try giving some of it to other people instead.

And we luckily have an opportunity for you.

In na srečo imate priložnost.

DonorsChoose.org is a nonprofit for mainly public school teachers

DonorsChoose.org je neprofitna organizacija

predvsem za učitelje v javnih šolah z nizkimi dohodki.

in low-income schools.

They post projects like,

Oni pripravijo projekte,

"I want to teach Huckleberry Finn and we don't have the books,"

recimo: "Svojemu razredu bi rad predstavil Huckleberryja Finna, a nimamo knjig."

ali: "Potrebujem mikroskop, da bi učil o znanosti,

or, "I want a microscope to teach my students science

pa ga nimamo."

and we don't have a microscope."

Lahko jim ga kupite.

You and I can go on and buy it for them.

Učitelj se vam bo zahvalil. Učenci vam bodo hvaležni.

The teacher and the kids write you thank-you notes,

sometimes they send pictures of them using the microscope.

Morda vam bodo poslali fotografije, kako uporabljajo mikroskop.

To je nekaj neverjetnega.

It's an extraordinary thing.

Pojdite na spletno stran in se pridružite procesu,

Go to the website and start yourself on the process of thinking

kjer ne boste razmišljali, kako porabiti denar zase,

less about "How can I spend money on myself?"

temveč o tem, kako s petimi ali petnajstimi dolarji

and more about "If I've got five dollars or 15 dollars,

pomagati drugim ljudem.

what can I do to benefit other people?"

Kajti videli boste, da boste s tem veliko bolj koristili sebi.

Ultimately, when you do that, you'll find you benefit yourself much more.

Hvala.

Thank you.

(aplavz)

(Applause)