An Interview with ESTHER about Teaching English

Welcome to another edition of Speak English fluently.

I'm your host, Steve Hatherly.

My guest today is quite the celebrity in the English education field.

She started teaching English in Korea way back in 2008 after studying psychology for

her undergraduate degree.

And now she's actually studying to be a therapist.

We will talk about that a little bit today.

She is the top English teacher for Shaw Education.

She has over, I think if we count correctly, 160 videos on the website now.

Although that number might be a little bit higher, we'd have to count more accurately.

Those videos are there for your viewing pleasure and your education pleasure, of course.

She covers grammar, vocabulary, listening and conversation in her videos.

And we will have a conversation today.

Welcome Esther, should I say Ester sonsangnim, Esther teacher, Miss Esther?

Welcome regardless to Speak English Fluently.

Thank you so much for having me, Steve.

And you can call me Esther.

That's totally fine.

Very good.

Well, thank you once again for joining today.

OK, so let's talk about your career then.

You are from the United States, and you are currently residing in the United States.

You studied psychology in school.

Did you move to Korea after university in America or was there a time period between?

Actually, I moved to Korea right after I graduated from university.

It’s a funny story.

I was supposed to go there for a 15-day graduation trip and ended up staying for 9 years.

So pretty much right after I graduated.

Let's… yeah, I mean everybody was surprised and yeah, it's… it was a wonderful time

there.

That's such a common story though, isn't it?

You know, people move to Korea and then the plan is to stay for a short time.

But they end up staying for a long time.

People fall in love with Korea, don't they?

Yes, and I miss it so much.

I can't wait to go back and visit sometime in the near future, and I've heard countless

stories and have many friends who had similar experiences.

When you moved to Korea, did you have plans of teaching English?

I guess not, because you were only planning on being here for a couple of weeks.

That's correct.

I had a friend from college who lived in Korea and was studying abroad in the US when we

met, and she heard of a job opportunity, asked me if I'd be interested in interviewing, and

I got the job.

And that's how I ended up staying for a lot longer than I had ever planned.

Wow, so what made you interested in teaching English then?

Because it came to you very suddenly, I guess in in your life, right?

Yeah, I have always really enjoyed working with young people and children.

When I was young, I wanted to be a teacher or an artist, but I think my teaching abilities

out… outway… are stronger than my artistic abilities, although I am very creative.

So yeah, I…

I have always been interested in teaching and this opportunity did fall in my lap and

I took the opportunity.

I guess I seized the opportunity and never looked back.

Carpe Diem moment for you.

So how did you become involved with Shaw education?

Um, so between teaching jobs, I had taken a little bit of a break to go back and visit

my family.

And when I came back to Korea, I didn't have another job lined up.

And so I was looking.

I wanted to do some part time jobs or some tutoring jobs.

I was looking for some jobs that would give me a little bit more freedom than working

at the kind of typical hagwon or English institution or Academy.

And so I was…

I was tutoring.

I was doing part time work, doing some research and development for some hagwons, and then

I came across an ad from Shaw English, looking for teachers to shoot some videos teaching

English.

And I thought I'd give it a shot.

So another opportunity that just fell on my lap.

I'm curious to know where you saw the advertisement, because that's exactly how I came to Korea

originally as well.

It was a really small advertisement in the bottom right corner of the newspaper that

said teach English in Korea.

So where was your Shaw Education advertisement?

I want to know.

That's a funny story.

Well, my, uh, the ad that I saw was on Craigslist, I believe so, yeah, very funny 'cause I don't

really know anybody who used Craigslist in Korea maybe.

So I just got very lucky I guess.

Yeah, maybe to buy a sofa or something like that, but not to start this amazingly successful,

you know, online English education career.

That's a very rare story.

Exactly.

What year was that that you got started with Shaw?

I believe that was 2012.

OK, so it's been quite a long time, then, that you've been making videos for Shaw education.

You did that while you were here in Korea, but after moving back to the United States,

you continued working with Shaw.

Was that in the plans or… because usually when people leave Korea, they kind of leave

perhaps, not always, but sometimes leave the English education part of their life behind.

But you took it with you.

Yeah, that was actually never part of the plan.

I didn't expect things to take off the way they did.

I worked for maybe two months, I think with Robin in 2012 and I thought that was the end

of it and I think we reconnected maybe around 2015.

Team and started talking about let's make some more videos and even though I've moved

to the states, Robin has come here and we've done some more content in the USA and I've…

Wow.

Yeah, and I've flown back to Korea as well to make more videos.

So was that, does that mean then that the videos that you made in the beginning were

so well received or so popular that Robin thought, wait, we have a good opportunity

to make some more success here?

I definitely think so, yeah.

I didn't expect it, but they did take off.

Can you remember the very first video that you made, I wonder?

I I'm not sure, but I if I were to take a guess.

I would guess the ‘can and can’t’ and some of the very simple basic skills.

So in your videos, I talked about it in the opening a little bit conversation, you covered

that.

You cover a lot of different things in your videos.

And some of your videos are quite long as well, although they're put together I think

3 hours, some 5 hours some.

But yeah, different topics, conversation, speaking, all these different types of things.

When you started making videos again, did you know that you wanted to cover many different

topics in your video?

No, but I did always enjoy the storytelling videos, which were a little more casual, a

little less formal.

We haven't done any kind of storytelling videos in a while, but I'm looking forward to picking

up on those again.

And there was a video where Robin asked me really quick-fire 100 questions and that was

a lot of fun as well.

I…

I did one of those videos too, for Robin.

It was…

It was a lot of fun.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever been asked 100 questions in a row before in such quick-fire,

quick-fire fashion.

But yeah, those are fun to do.

Right.

I saw one of your videos has 17,155,940 views and that number is probably higher as we are

speaking right now.

So I wonder, in your opinion as a teacher, as a star teacher, what makes your videos

so popular, do you think?

It's hard to say, um, when I read the comments, I just feel like people connect with me.

Uhm, I have heard that I speak very clearly.

And I think that is helpful for a lot of English learners.

Uhm, you know, I don't know.

But I really, really just appreciate all the love and kind comments and questions people

have left.

Yeah, those comments really make you feel great, don't they?

Because it makes you realize that you're making an impact.

You're having a positive influence on someone’s life, and as someone who is studying to be

a therapist and studied psychology before, I'm guessing that that's really quite important

for you personally.

Yes, it's very rewarding just to know that I am helping people.

And just that ---I'm making some kind of impact.

It feels really wonderful.

Do you remember the moment when you realized, oh wow, these videos are becoming quite popular?

Because in the beginning you only worked with Robin for a couple of months.

There was a break time there, a long break time.

And then you started making videos again.

Do you remember, was there any particular video or any particular time when you realized,

oh, this is going to be quite successful?

I still don't think it's really hit me.

You know, when you say 17 million views, that's shocking…

That's just that's Justin Bieber territory.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around what that really means to be honest.

The first time I realized not that this was going to be a big deal or that this was big,

but the first time that I thought this is more than just the two months kind of commitment

I had made with Robin initially, was when a colleague of mine at a hagwon was preparing

a lesson for his class and was looking up some videos on YouTube for resources and said

to me, is this you?

And I…

That was the first time I realized like while people are getting to my videos when they

search for something really simple for teaching English.

Has it gotten easier over the years because now it's… it's been a long time now, right,

for you to be making videos?

Has it gotten easier to make these videos or has it gotten more difficult, I wonder?

I don't know if it's gotten more difficult or easier.

Not to toot my own horn, but…

Please do.

That's why we're her, Esther.

Well, I…

I was surprised by.. by lack of nervousness.

I wasn't as nervous as I thought I'd be.

I think I do OK under pressure.

You know, I have to admit, even before this interview I was pretty nervous.

But here I am and I'm feeling OK.

And even with school presentations and things like that, I really feel nervous before, but

in the moment, I tend to do OK.

Maybe I'm acting a little, I don't know.

But it… it never felt too difficult.

I guess that's a really good feeling to know though, because…

that's how students of English feel often when they have to speak English and even worse

when they have to do a presentation in English.

So knowing that feeling, do you think that that maybe makes you an even better teacher?

Oh, that's a good question.

I think, yeah.

You know, before presentations or before an interview, something like this I will often

also practice either in my head or in front of a mirror.

I'll do my best to feel that I am well prepared, so I looked at the interview questions ahead

of time, or I'll ask about what I can expect and I don't go in blindly.

I do prepare.

And then… and then…

when I… once I'm in it, it doesn't seem as bad because I kind of know what to expect.

Now, when it comes to maybe like a live lesson or something like that, I may be a little

bit more nervous because things can go wrong.

But in general, if I have some time or ability to prepare, I'll feel a lot better going into

the activity that I'm doing.

Oh, that's the beauty of live TV or live radio or live streaming, is that, hey, sometimes

things go wrong and that's OK when that happens too, right?

Of course, yeah.

Is there any video that comes to mind for you that was the most fun to make, I wonder?

I'm going to go back to that 100 questions, rapid questioning video, just because it was

very casual for that one.

I didn't really have to prepare, and who doesn't like talking about themselves and things that

they enjoy?

Right, that's… that's true.

So that was fun.

Maybe that's how I should have prepared for this interview today?

I should have just prepared 100 questions and just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,

boom.

So you're studying to be a therapist now?

Does that mean that you will stop making English education videos in the future?

Or will you do those both of those things together in the future?

I'm still working on making videos with Robin.

I don't have any plans to stop in the near future.

Things may slow down depending on how often we're able to travel back and forth and make

the videos.

And you know, I'm always being encouraged to make videos at home right now, however,

with my studies, and my burgeoning practice, it's a little bit hard to do that.

So videos may not be coming out as regularly, but I do plan to continue making them.

What kind of video schedule do you have now?

Do you put out videos once a week?

Once a month?

What kind of schedule are you on now?

Currently, I don't have any kind of regular schedule.

It's more so when I'm able to visit Korea, we'll shoot a lot of videos at once and then

they will slowly be edited and then released.

Wow, you truly are a celebrity, aren't you?

Traveling around the world to film different things.

Yeah, when you put it that way.

Yeah, exactly right.

So what are the plans then for content for the future?

Or… or maybe just things that you think, in your opinion as a teacher, would be really

useful for students these days?

Well, with TikTok and other social media being so um…

It's just really different from when videos were released on YouTube or when I recorded

these videos for YouTube in 2012.

People are consuming social media content in much smaller bits and pieces.

And so, I foresee that if I do make some videos, it will be a lot more casual quick.

UM, maybe uh, more of a glimpse into my daily life.

And… and just maybe a little bit more of an approachable, less structured, uhm, lesson.

I'm not sure yet, but I definitely can see that being popular or helpful.

That's a really interesting opinion.

You know, I've heard so many different teachers say these days.

Well, because of the pandemic, it changed education, not just for English, it changed

education as a whole.

Because so much got put online forcibly, people didn't have a choice, students and teachers.

But what's interesting is that the world of social media is now having a great impact

on how students want to learn and how teachers want to teach.

And I think it's something maybe you agree or disagree, but to me, it seems like such

a juxtapose.

Social media and education or social media and English education.

Those two things don't seem to go together naturally.

But now teachers, they have to follow that trend, right?

And I…

I do see where you're coming from, but I think I myself learn a lot from social media.

For example, I'm following a lot of accounts that are teaching me how to make new recipes.

Account…

Instagram accounts that teach me about finance, which is something I'm interested in learning.

Or about.

I'm learning a lot about therapy as well.

And so I'm learning bits and pieces.

And so I do think that maybe the… either the quality of the… or the time it'll take

to acquire all the knowledge I need to become an expert, will be longer, but at the same

time, it… it is more approachable, like I said.

It feels less daunting or it feels like it's not so much I have to try to learn at… at

once so it can feel like more doable.

I guess is another way to put it.

Yeah, I guess the world is changing.

People are changing in the sense that I don't know if it's a reduced attention span for

people around the world or just people have become spoiled with how quickly they can get

their content.

But I think you're right.

Shorter videos perhaps, with getting your point - boom, straight to the point.

And then wrap it up and then, yeah, maybe that's the future of education for not just

English, but finance, cooking, all the things that you mentioned.

It's really interesting, the trend change, I think.

Definitely.

And about your point regarding, you know, shorter attention span, I really do think

that that has a little bit to do with it, if not a lot to do with it.

I myself find it harder to concentrate for long periods of time, even on things that

I enjoy, like a TV show.

I find myself multitasking.

Yeah, it's so hard to sit through a 2-hour movie now.

I…

I had that conversation with a friend.

I wonder if movies will become like 22 minutes long in the future or something.

Yeah, that would be crazy, but you know, I don't think it's too far off.

Absolutely.

So then the therapy degree, how far away?

Oh, sorry, maybe license is the right way to say that.

How far away, how far in the future is that for you?

So I have about three more years to work towards that license.

I'm accruing hours so I have to hit, in California, the… the requirements are 3000 hours of

direct clinical work with children and adults.

Do you believe you mentioned the amount of time it takes to be an expert?

Do you believe in the 10,000-hour rule?

Studying something for 10,000 hours makes you an automatic expert at it, or practicing

for 10,000 hours.

I'm…

I'm wondering your view as a teacher, as an educator, if you believe in that theory.

I don't think so.

I don't even know exactly how many days or months or years 10,000 hours would amount

to.

Depends on the person and their schedule I guess, right?

Sure, that's true.

UM.

But no, I don't think it's a finite amount of time necessarily.

It… it's a lot of other factors as well, including effort, attention, passion.

Uhm, yeah, just a lot of different things put together.

Do you think English education has changed over the years?

We talked about how people get their content these days through different social media

services.

Do you think that the students, the information that they… that they want or the information

that they get has changed over the years?

Umm, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if teachers are already doing what we talked

about earlier, giving smaller snippets of information.

Like instead of studying from a vocabulary book, students might be following a teacher

who does one vocab word a day.

And puts it in a… a visual context of where they're showing it, you know, in a video or

in a picture.

So I would assume also it's a lot more visual.

Uhm, yeah.

Do you have a favorite English word?

I'm…

I'm totally putting you on the spot here, and I apologize for that.

No, that's OK.

The first word that comes to mind is ‘goggle’.

OK.

I just think it's just such a silly word.

And I love that someone…

I don't know the root of it, but I just love that wherever it came from, the word goggle

just sounds funny.

It sounds like you're mispronouncing an Internet search engine.

Yes, yes.

Instead of something you wear when you go skiing.

Right, right.

So the origins of words are always interesting.

So, I think of silly words, silly sounding words like that, where they might have come

from.

Or did someone just make a sound and decide that was the word to describe this object?

One of the common questions that teachers get when they are being interviewed is a question

that I will ask you next.

In your expert opinion for students, what do you think is the… or should be the main

focus of an English language student’s study?

Conversation, reading, vocabulary, grammar, listening.

Those are kind of the five main elements, right?

Do you think one isn't any more important than the other?

I think I don't know if I can say that one is more important than the other, but I do

think that learning how to speak and listen first, and preferably if possible in a natural

manner by conversing with other English speakers, or conversing with people who are also learning

you're like yourself, can make it easier to pick up on the other skills like reading and

grammar.

Very good information from an expert teacher.

Start with your speaking and listening and then everything else will get easier from

there.

All right.

Well, I know because you said earlier you don't like to toot your own horn or blow your

own horn, which means to brag about yourself.

But I have to ask you, why should students go to Shaw Education on YouTube or the website

and watch your videos?

Uhm, I think that my videos are very simple and straightforward.

They are easy to follow, they have a lot of great examples, a lot of encouragement.

And, um…

I think that they are… the word of the day approachable.

They're… they're not too challenging, and yet you can choose between a variety of levels

that you're looking to learn.

And not only that, you get to learn about the teachers that are behind the videos and

learn a little bit about their journeys and so you really get to connect with the person

who's teaching you English while also taking in the content in a way that is.

Not too challenging yet there is some variety in what you're learning.

Do you have any particular level that you enjoy making videos for?

I've seen some of your videos for very beginner levels, and I do agree with you by the way,

you have a wonderful speaking voice.

Your enunciation is so clear and that would make a student feel so comfortable.

So, do you prefer making videos for the beginner level, intermediate level, advanced level?

Or is there really no difference for you?

No difference.

I really do enjoy all levels and it's always just a really fun time for me getting together

with Robin, recording and working as a team.

Well, we're about to wrap things up, but there was a guest here before we started our interview

and… and the guest has disappeared somewhere.

Your roommate, I think at the House, is he gone?

Is the is the cat… is the cat not around right now?

He's sitting across from me.

He was sitting right here earlier, but he's decided that he needs a little bit of space,

so he's sitting across from me behind the camera.

He's your producer, then.

He's making sure I don't mess up.

He's on the other side of the glass.

Well, if we have a chance to meet again in the future, maybe we can say hello to your

cute little cat.

Where can we find?

OK, so give us all the information on where we can go and find you if there's any information

you want to share on YouTube or things like that.

Uhm, the best way to get in touch with me is to e-mail.

You can find the e-mail address on our YouTube page.

Very good.

Well, Esther, it was a delight to speak with you today.

Thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your story.

Congratulations on the unbelievable success of your videos with Shaw English.

Good luck with your therapy study in the future.

And I do hope that we will have an opportunity to chat again one day.

It was a real pleasure for me.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Steve, for having me.

I had a great time as well.

OK, by Esther and by producer cat.