Mustafa Akyol: Faith versus tradition in Islam

翻译人员: Jiwei Qu 校对人员: Xiaoqiao Xie

几个星期之前

A few weeks ago, I had a chance to go to Saudi Arabia.

我有一个机会去沙特阿拉伯

And the first thing I wanted to do as a Muslim

作为一个穆斯林，我首先想到的就是

was to go to Mecca and visit the Kaaba,

前往麦加拜访伊斯兰教

the holiest shrine of Islam.

最神圣的圣坛克尔白

And I did that; I put on my ritualistic dress,

后来我真的去了；我穿着传统仪式的服装

去了神圣的清真寺

I went to the holy mosque,

I did my prayers,

做了祷告

I observed all the rituals.

我遵循了所有仪式流程

与此同时

And meanwhile, besides all the spirituality,

精神上的东西之外

there was one mundane detail in the Kaaba

在克尔白还有一些小细节

that was pretty interesting for me:

让我很感兴趣

there was no separation of sexes.

在那里不分性别

In other words, men and women were worshiping all together.

换句话说，男人和女人

都在一起做礼拜

他们在一起做tawaf（伊斯兰教仪式的一种）

They were together while doing tawāf, the circular walk around the Kaaba.

也就是要环绕着克尔白走

They were together while praying.

他们在一起做祷告

And if you wonder why this is interesting at all,

如果你想知道为什么这让我如此感兴趣

你首先要了解一下沙特阿拉伯其他地方的情况

you have to see the rest of Saudi Arabia,

because this a country which is strictly divided between the sexes.

因为这个国家

是一个严格区分男女地位的国家

In other words:

换句话说

as men, you are simply not supposed to be in the same physical space

作为男人是不允许

和女人出现在同一场合中的

with women.

And I noticed this in a very funny way.

我是通过一个非常有趣的方式注意到这点的

I left the Kaaba to eat something in downtown Mecca.

我离开克尔白

想去麦加市区吃些东西

I headed to the nearest Burger King restaurant.

我走向了一家最近的汉堡王店

到那以后

And I went there -- I noticed that there was a male section,

我发现那有一个男士专区

which is carefully separated from the female section.

女性是被严格禁止进入这一区域的

I had to pay, order and eat in the male section.

我付款，点餐和进餐都必须在男士专区进行

"It's funny," I said to myself,

“真有意思”我心里想

"You can mingle with the opposite sex at the holy Kaaba,

”你可以在神圣的克尔白和异性在一起

but not at the Burger King?"

但在汉堡王却不行“

(Laughter)

真具有讽刺意味

Quite, quite ironic.

虽然讽刺，我认为也是说的通的

Ironic, and it's also, I think, quite telling,

because the Kaaba and the rituals around it

因为克尔白和那些仪式

are relics from the earliest phase of Islam,

是伊斯兰教最早期

that of prophet Muhammad.

也就是先知穆罕默德时期留下来的遗产

And if there was a big emphasis at the time to separate men from women,

如果那个时期很重视

把男性从女性中分离出来的话

the rituals around the Kaaba could have been designed accordingly.

那么，在设计仪式的时侯，也应相应的考虑到这一点

But apparently, that was not an issue at the time.

但显然这在当时不是个问题

因此仪式就像现在看到的样子

So the rituals came that way.

This is also, I think, confirmed by the fact

我觉得这同样也是个现状

那就是，由于女性的隐居状态

that the seclusion of women in creating a divided society

正在产生一个分裂的社会状态

is something that you also do not find in the Koran --

这同样是不符合古兰经的

伊斯兰教的最核心的部分

the very core of Islam, the divine core of Islam --

其神圣的精髓

that all Muslims, equally myself, believe.

那就是所有的民族、信仰一律平等

我觉得如果那并不意外

And I think it's not an accident

that you don't find this idea in the very origin of Islam,

如果你在原始的伊斯兰教义中

无法找到这些理念

because many scholars who study the history of Islamic thought --

因为许多研究

伊斯兰教的学者--

Muslim scholars or Westerners --

这些学者中包括穆斯林学者和西方人--

think that, actually, the practice of dividing men and women physically

他们认为

把男人和女人区分开来，事实上是

came as a later development in Islam,

伊斯兰教发展后期的事情

as Muslims adopted some preexisting cultures

就像穆斯林吸取了

一些中东地区先前存在的文化和传统一样

and traditions of the Middle East.

Seclusion of women was actually a Byzantine and Persian practice,

女性的隐逸实际上是出自

拜占庭和波斯的惯例

穆斯林借鉴了这个习俗

and Muslims adopted it and made it a part of their religion.

并且把它变成自身宗教信仰的一部分

Actually, this is just one example of a much larger phenomenon.

这仅仅是这种借鉴现象中的

的一个例子

What we call today Islamic law, and especially Islamic culture --

我们如今所说的伊斯兰法，特别是伊斯兰文明--

事实上其中有许多伊斯兰文化；

and there are many Islamic cultures, actually;

同样的一件事在沙特阿拉伯完全不同于

the one in Saudi Arabia is much different

在我的家乡伊斯坦布尔或者土耳其

from where I come from in Istanbul or Turkey.

But still, if you're going to speak about a Muslim culture,

但是尽管如此

如果谈论穆斯林文明

this has a core: the divine message which began the religion.

有一个核心，神圣的主旨思想

是从初期就有的

But then many traditions, perceptions, practices were added on top of it.

但是之后，许多传统，认知想法

和惯例被加了进来

And these were traditions of the Middle East medieval traditions.

这些东西都出自中东地区的传统--中世纪传统

There are two important messages, or two lessons,

同样，有两个重要的信息，或者说两个重要的经验

可以从那个事实中获得

to take from that reality.

First of all, Muslims --

首先，穆斯林--

pious, conservative, believing Muslims who want to be loyal to their religion --

虔诚的,保守的,忠诚于他们信仰的穆斯林教徒们--

不应该对他们文化中的一切都持有坚持的态度

should not cling onto everything in their culture,

thinking that that's divinely mandated.

认为那是神圣不可改变的

也许有一些不好的传统

Maybe some things are bad traditions and they need to be changed.

是需要被改变的

On the other hand, the Westerners who look at Islamic culture

另一方面，那些对伊斯兰教

进行审视的西方人

and see some troubling aspects

当看到消极一面的时候

should not readily conclude that this is what Islam ordains.

也不应该简单的断定那就是伊斯兰教义的本意

Maybe it's a Middle Eastern culture that became confused with Islam.

也许那是出自中东文化

使得伊斯兰教义变得模糊不清

比如有一个习俗叫做 “女性割礼”

There is a practice called female circumcision.

非常可怕和残酷

It's something terrible, horrible.

It is basically an operation to deprive women of sexual pleasure.

本质上，它是通过手术

剥夺女性在性方面获得快感的权利

And Westerners --

有一些西方人，欧洲人或者美洲人

Europeans or Americans -- who didn't know about this before,

之前并不知道这些习俗

[saw] this practice

他们从北美移民到穆斯林国家

within some of the Muslim communities who migrated from North Africa.

在那里见到了

这种习俗

And they've thought,

于是他们就说：”天哪，这是多么可怕的一种宗教啊

"Oh, what a horrible religion that is, which ordains something like that."

让人去做这种可怕事情”

但是实际上，当你去了解女性割礼这种习俗的时候

But when you look at female circumcision,

你会发现那和伊斯兰教本身没什么关系

you see that it has nothing to do with Islam;

那是北非地区的一种习俗

it's just a North African practice which predates Islam.

在伊斯兰教之前就有了

It was there for thousands of years.

它已经存在了数千年

And, quite tellingly, some Muslims do practice it --

一些穆斯林也有这种习俗也很正常

仅仅是北非的穆斯林有这种习俗，其他地区穆斯林并没有

the Muslims in North Africa, not in other places.

But also the non-Muslim communities of North Africa --

但是，还有一些北非的非穆斯林团体--

例如万物有灵论者，甚至是一些基督教徒

the animists, some Christians and even a Jewish tribe in North Africa --

和一个犹太教部落

也是有女性割礼这个习俗的

are known to practice female circumcision.

So what might look like a problem within Islamic faith

因此，在伊斯兰教中被看作

是一个问题的东西

might turn out to be a tradition that Muslims have subscribed to.

可能会变成一个传统

被穆斯林所沿袭

The same thing can be said for honor killings,

名誉罪刑也是一个相似的问题

which is a recurrent theme in the Western media --

是西方媒体经常讨论的问题

and which is, of course, a horrible tradition.

当然，它同样也是一个可怕的习俗

And we see, truly, in some Muslim communities, that tradition.

我们亲眼看见这种传统发生在一些穆斯林社会中

但是在中东的非伊斯兰社会

But in the non-Muslim communities of the Middle East,

像一些基督教教社会，东方社会

such as some Christian communities, Eastern communities,

你也可以看到同样的习俗

you see the same practice.

We had a tragic case of an honor killing

我有一个悲惨的例子

发生在土耳其的亚美尼亚人社区

within Turkey's Armenian community just a few months ago.

就在几个月之前

Now, these are things about general culture,

现在看这些事情是文化问题

but I'm also very much interested in political culture

但是我还想从政治文化角度去分析这种现象

and whether liberty and democracy is appreciated,

自由和民主是否得到足够的重视

or whether there's an authoritarian political culture

或者 是否存在着

in which the state is supposed to impose things on the citizens.

国家把意识强加于人民的集权政治文化

这些不是秘密

And it is no secret

that many Islamic movements in the Middle East

中东的许多伊斯兰运动

都趋向于专政

tend to be authoritarian,

and some of the so-called "Islamic regimes,"

有一些被称为所谓的伊斯兰政治制度

such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and the worst case, the Taliban in Afghanistan,

比如沙特阿拉伯，伊朗

最坏的例子就是阿富汗塔利班了

they are pretty authoritarian -- no doubt about that.

他们非常专政--这是毫无疑问的

例如在沙特阿拉伯

For example, in Saudi Arabia,

there is a phenomenon called the religious police.

有一个群体叫宗教警察

And the religious police imposes the supposed Islamic way of life

他们强迫人们

以伊斯兰教的方式生活

on every citizen, by force --

每一个人都被强迫要求必须遵守

like, women are forced to cover their heads --

比如女人被强迫戴盖头--

用面纱或者头巾包住头

wear the hijab, the Islamic head cover.

现在看来，那是非常专政的

Now that is pretty authoritarian,

那就是我要批判的东西

and that's something I'm very much critical of.

但是 当我意识到

But when I realized that the non-Muslim,

非穆斯林

or the non-Islamic-minded actors in the same geography

或者是同一个地区不信仰伊斯兰教的人

也做着类似的事情的时候

sometimes behaved similarly,

I realized that the problem maybe lies

我意识到问题可能是

in the political culture of the whole region, not just Islam.

整个地区的政治文化的问题，而不仅仅是伊斯兰教的问题

Let me give you an example: in Turkey, where I come from,

让我来举例说明一下：以我出生的土耳其来说

which is a very hyper-secular republic,

直到最近之前

until very recently, we used to have what I call "secularism police,"

它都是一个非常非宗教性的国家

我们以前有一种警察，我们称之为政教分离警察

他们警戒着大学

which would guard the universities against veiled students.

不允许学生带面纱

In other words, they would force students to uncover their heads.

换句话说， 他们迫使学生

不让他们戴盖头

And I think forcing people to uncover their head

在我看来强迫他们不许戴盖头

is as tyrannical as forcing them to cover it.

和强迫他们戴盖头一样都是专制的

是否戴盖头应该由他们自己选择

It should be the citizen's decision.

But when I saw that, I said,

但是当我看到那些做法，我说

"Maybe the problem is just an authoritarian culture in the region,

也许问题

是这个地区的集权文化的问题

and some Muslims have been influenced by that.

一些穆斯林已经被它影响到了

但是没有宗教思想的人也会被那些行为所影响到

But the secular-minded people can be influenced by that.

Maybe it's a problem of the political culture,

也许政治文化的问题

我们必须想一想

and we have to think about how to change that political culture."

如何改变那样的政治文化

Now, these are some of the questions I had in mind a few years ago

这些问题是几年前

我在写一本书的时候

when I sat down to write a book.

出现在我脑中的疑问

I said, "Well, I will do research

我说，”好，我要做个调查

关于伊斯兰教的起源和现状

about how Islam actually came to be what it is today,

和所选择的道路

and what roads were taken and what roads could have been taken."

以及原本可以选择的道路是什么”

书的名字叫做“一个没有极端的伊斯兰教：穆斯林的自由主义案例”

The name of the book is "Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty."

And as the subtitle suggests,

就像副标题所说

I looked at Islamic tradition and the history of Islamic thought

我对伊斯兰教的传统以及思想史

from the perspective of individual liberty,

从个人自由主义的角度进行了审视

and I tried to find what are the strengths with regard to individual liberty.

我还试图找到个人自由主义

的优点有什么

And there are strengths in Islamic tradition.

在伊斯兰的传统中有一些优点

伊斯兰教，本质上是一神论的宗教

Islam, actually, as a monotheistic religion,

which defined man as a responsible agent by itself,

它定义一个人作为它的代表人物

created the idea of the individual in the Middle East,

在中东地区创造了独特的思想

并且使得这种思想在信仰共产主义和集体主义的

and saved it from the communitarianism, the collectivism of the tribe.

部落中幸存了下来

You can derive many ideas from that.

你可以看许多观念都有它们的影子

But besides that, I also saw problems within Islamic tradition.

但是除此之外，我同样在伊斯兰传统中看到许多问题

But one thing was curious:

但是有一件事很奇妙：

most of those problems turn out to be problems that emerged later,

那些问题中的大部分是后来才变成问题的

not from the very divine core of Islam, the Koran,

这些问题不是出自伊斯兰教神圣的核心，古兰经

but from, again, traditions and mentalities,

但是，问题是来自传统惯例，思想意识

以及中世纪穆斯林

or the interpretations of the Koran that Muslims made in the Middle Ages.

对古兰经的解读

例如古兰经

The Koran, for example, doesn't condone stoning.

是反对石刑的

There is no punishment for apostasy.

叛教是不会受到惩罚的

There is no punishment for personal sins like drinking.

像喝酒这样的私事也是不会受到惩罚的

这些惩罚出现在伊斯兰教法中

These things which make Islamic law,

the troubling aspects of Islamic law,

是伊斯兰教法中有问题的部分

were developed into later interpretations of Islam.

它们都是后期对伊斯兰教解读中发展出来的

Which means that Muslims can, today,

也就是说，今天的穆斯林可以

look at those things and say,

看着这些事情然后说

"Well, the core of our religion is here to stay with us.

”恩， 我们一直遵循着

教义的精髓

It's our faith, and we will be loyal to it.

那是我们的信仰，我们将忠于它“

But we can change how it was interpreted,

但是 我们可以改变对它的解读

because it was interpreted according to the time

因为我们对它的解读还是停留在中世纪的环境下

and milieu in the Middle Ages.

现在我们生活在一个完全不同的世界

Now we're living in a different world,

有着不同的价值观和不同的政治体系

with different values and political systems."

那种解读当时是合情合理的

That interpretation is quite possible and feasible.

Now, if I were the only person thinking that way,

现在 如果我是唯一一个那么想的人

we would be in trouble.

我们也许就有麻烦了

But that's not the case at all.

但是实际上根本不是那样

Actually, from the 19th century on,

实际上，从19世纪以来

there's a whole revisionist, reformist -- whatever you call it -- tradition,

有一群修正主义者，改革者--

随你怎么叫他们都可以

传统

a trend in Islamic thinking.

一种伊斯兰思想趋势

These were intellectuals or statesmen

19世纪，以及后来的20世纪

的思想家或政治家们

of the 19th century, and later, 20th century,

which looked at Europe, basically,

他们看到欧洲的发展

and saw that Europe has many things to admire,

并且认为欧洲有许多令人羡慕的地方

like science and technology.

比如科学技术

But not just that; also democracy, parliament,

不止那些；还有民主制和议会制

代表制度

the idea of representation,

the idea of equal citizenship.

公民平等制

These Muslim thinkers, intellectuals and statesmen of the 19th century,

穆斯林19世纪的思想家，知识分子以及政治家们

看到欧洲的发展和这些新事物

looked at Europe, saw these things, and said,

他们说：”为什么我们不能也拥有那些？“

"Why don't we have these things?"

他们再回看伊斯兰传统

And they looked back at Islamic tradition,

他们觉得有些方面是有问题的

and saw that there are problematic aspects,

but they're not the core of the religion, so maybe they can be re-understood,

这些方面不是教义的核心问题，所以也许它们可以被换一种方式重新解读

古兰经也可以在现代社会

and the Koran can be reread in the modern world.

被重新解读

That trend is generally called Islamic modernism,

这种趋势

被普遍叫做伊斯兰现代主义

and it was advanced by intellectuals and statesmen,

它被知识分子和政治家提出

not just as an intellectual idea, though,

这不只是一个知识分子的想法

but also as a political program.

同样是一个政治进程

And that's why, actually, in the 19th century,

这就是为什么在19世纪

the Ottoman Empire, which then covered the whole Middle East,

征服了整个中东的奥斯曼帝国

做出了非常重要的变革--

made very important reforms --

reforms like giving Christians and Jews an equal citizenship status,

变革包括给予基督教徒和犹太教徒

平等地位

承认宪法

accepting a constitution,

accepting a representative parliament,

承认议会代表

advancing the idea of freedom of religion.

推进宗教自由

That's why the Ottoman Empire, in its last decades,

这也同样是为什么奥斯曼帝国在他的最后十年

turned into a proto-democracy, a constitutional monarchy,

形成了民主制的雏形

一个君主立宪制国家

and freedom was a very important political value at the time.

自由在那时是非常重要的政治观

Similarly, in the Arab world,

同样的，在阿拉伯世界

there was what the great Arab historian Albert Hourani defines

也处在被伟大的阿拉伯历史学家阿尔伯特·胡拉尼

称之为的自由时代

as the Liberal Age.

He has a book, "Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age,"

他写过一本书叫”自由时代的阿拉伯思想“

他定义的自由时期

and the Liberal Age, he defines as 19th century and early 20th century.

是19世纪和20世纪早期

明显的，20世纪早期，

Quite notably, this was the dominant trend in the early 20th century

在伊斯兰思想家、政治家和神学家中

among Islamic thinkers and statesmen and theologians.

自由主义是主流思想

But there is a very curious pattern in the rest of the 20th century,

但是，这有一个非常奇怪的图形

在20世纪的剩余时间里

because we see a sharp decline in this Islamic modernist line.

因为我们看到伊斯兰现代主义者这条线

急剧的下降

And in place of that,

取而代之的的是

what happens is that Islamism grows as an ideology which is authoritarian,

伊斯兰教发展成了

一个专制的思想体系

which is quite strident,

并且非常的尖锐

which is quite anti-Western,

非常的反西方

希望把社会塑造成

and which wants to shape society based on a utopian vision.

一个乌托邦

So Islamism is the problematic idea

因此伊斯兰教是存在疑问的

that really created a lot of problems in the 20th-century Islamic world.

它带来了许多问题

在20世纪的伊斯兰世界

And even the very extreme forms of Islamism

甚至是伊斯兰教非常极端的形式

led to terrorism in the name of Islam --

导致了伊斯兰恐怖主义--

我认为它实际上是反对伊斯兰教活动的组织

which is actually a practice that I think is against Islam,

but some, obviously, extremists, did not think that way.

但是有一些，明显的极端主义者不那么认为

But there is a curious question:

但是有一个奇怪的问题

If Islamic modernism was so popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries,

如果伊斯兰现代主义在十九世纪和二十世纪初期

如此受欢迎的话

why did Islamism become so popular in the rest of the 20th century?

为什么在20世纪其它时间里

伊斯兰教会变得如此流行？

我认为，这个问题

And this is a question, I think, which needs to be discussed carefully.

需要很仔细的去探讨

In my book, I went into that question as well.

在我的书中，同样涉及到了这个问题

And actually, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.

事实上你不必像个专家一样精通

Just look at the political history of the 20th century,

你只要去看看20世纪的政治史

你就会发现事情改变了很多

and you see things have changed a lot.

时代背景已经改变

The contexts have changed.

In the 19th century,

19世纪的时候

when Muslims were looking at Europe as an example,

当穆斯林把欧洲当作一个榜样看待的时候

they were independent; they were more self-confident.

他们是独立自主的，他们所拥有的更多的是自信

In the early 20th century, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire,

二十世纪初期时，随着奥斯曼帝国的没落

the whole Middle East was colonized.

整个中东处于被殖民状态

And when you have colonialization, what do you have?

当你处于殖民化的时候，你还能有什么呢?

You have anti-colonialization.

你有的就是反抗殖民统治

So Europe is not just an example now to emulate;

因此欧洲从之前的榜样变成了当时的竞争者

it's an enemy to fight and to resist.

变成了需要反抗和斗争的敌人

So there's a very sharp decline in liberal ideas in the Muslim world,

因此，在穆斯林世界之前的自由主义观点

就急剧的下滑了

这时你更多的看到了保守思想

and what you see is more of a defensive, rigid, reactionary strain,

死板，禁锢

which led to Arab socialism, Arab nationalism

这也催生了阿拉伯社会主义，阿拉伯民族主义

and ultimately to the Islamist ideology.

最终形成了伊斯兰的思想体系

And when the colonial period ended,

当殖民时期结束的时候

what you had in place of that was generally secular dictators,

取而代之的

一般来说，就是独裁者

他们组建了一个国家

which say they're a country,

but did not bring democracy to the country,

但是却没有为这个国家带来民主

and established their own dictatorship.

却形成了他们自己的独裁统治

And I think the West, at least some powers in the West,

我认为西方国家，至少是一部分西方国家的政权

特别是美国

particularly the United States,

made the mistake of supporting those secular dictators,

在支持这些独裁者上犯了错误

thinking that they were more helpful for their interests.

因为他们觉得这更符合他们的国家利益

But the fact that those dictators suppressed democracy in their country

但是事实却是那些独裁者

在国家内部镇压民主

and suppressed Islamic groups in their country

还镇压本国的伊斯兰组织

actually made the Islamists much more strident.

事实上这致使伊斯兰主义者更加极端

因此 在20世纪

So in the 20th century,

you had this vicious cycle in the Arab world,

你会发现这种恶性循环发生在阿拉伯世界

where you have a dictatorship suppressing its own people,

这些国家都是独裁国家，它们镇压人民

including the Islamic pious,

包括虔诚的穆斯林

and they're reacting in reactionary ways.

他们的行为非常保守

There was one country, though,

但是有一个国家

which was able to escape or stay away from that vicious cycle.

它摆脱了

这种恶性循环

And that's the country where I come from, Turkey.

那就是我的祖国：土耳其

Turkey has never been colonized,

土耳其从来没有被殖民过

因此它在奥斯曼帝国垮台后保持了国家的独立性

so it remained as an independent nation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

有一件事值得记住

That's one thing to remember;

他们没有大肆宣传反殖民主义

it did not share the same anti-colonial hype

这种宣传在当时的许多其他国家却是很常见的

that you can find in some other countries in the region.

Secondly, and most importantly,

其次，最重要的一点是

Turkey became a democracy

土耳其变成了一个民主国家

earlier than any of the countries we are talking about.

这个转变早于任何一个我们所谈到的国家

In 1950, Turkey had the first free and fair elections,

1950年，土耳其举行了第一次自由公平的大选

标志着结束了独裁的政治体制

which ended the more autocratic secular regime,

which was in the beginning of Turkey.

是土耳其的一个起点

And the pious Muslims in Turkey

在土耳其的虔诚穆斯林

saw that they could change the political system by voting.

发现他们可以用他们的选票改变政治体制

And they realized that democracy is something compatible with Islam,

他们同时发现民主是和伊斯兰教可以共存的

和他们的价值观是一致的

compatible with their values,

and they've been supportive of democracy.

于是他们对民主表示了支持

That's an experience

这个民主过程

that not every other Muslim nation in the Middle East had,

中东地区的许多国家

直到最近才经历

until very recently.

Secondly, in the past two decades,

其次，在过去的20年

thanks to globalization, thanks to the market economy,

多亏了全球化、市场经济

thanks to the rise of a middle class,

以及中产阶级的崛起

we in Turkey see what I define as a rebirth of Islamic modernism.

我们在土耳其看到了

我定义的伊斯兰现代主义的复兴

Now, there's the more urban middle-class pious Muslims

现在越来越多城市中产阶级中的虔诚穆斯林

开始重新去审视他们的传统

who, again, look at their tradition

同时看到传统中的一些问题

and see that there are some problems in the tradition,

他们意识到他们必须改变、质疑和变革

and understand that they need to be changed and questioned and reformed.

他们审视欧洲

And they look at Europe, and see an example, again, to follow.

再次把欧洲作为一个榜样，去效仿

They see an example, at least, to take some inspiration from.

他们看到了一个榜样，至少可以从那得到一些灵感

这就是为什么欧洲一体化的进程中

That's why the EU process, Turkey's effort to join the EU,

土耳其希望加入欧盟的努力

得到了国家内部的支持

has been supported inside Turkey by the Islamic pious,

包括虔诚的穆斯林

while some secular nationalists were against it.

尽管一些国家反对土耳其的做法

Well, that process has been a little bit blurred

确实，一体化的过程遇到些问题

实际操作中，并没有得到所有欧洲人的欢迎--

by the fact that not all Europeans are that welcoming,

这是另一个需要讨论的问题

but that's another discussion.

But the pro-EU sentiment in Turkey in the past decade

但是，在过去的十年中，在土耳其，支持欧洲联盟的观点

has become almost an Islamic cause and supported by the Islamic liberals

已经几乎变成了伊斯兰教的目标

得到了伊斯兰自由主义者

and the secular liberals as well, of course.

当然同样也得到了非宗教界的自由主义者的支持

And thanks to that,

多亏了这些支持

Turkey has been able to reasonably create a success story

土耳其已经合理的开创了一个历史

in which Islam and the most pious understandings of Islam

这个过程使得伊斯兰教和穆斯林

have become part of the democratic game,

变成了这个民主过程的一部分

and even contributes to the democratic and economic advance of the country.

他们甚至还推动了国家的民主

和经济的发展

And this has been an inspiring example right now

如今，这段历史已经成为

一些伊斯兰运动

for some of the Islamic movements

和阿拉伯世界伊斯兰国家鼓舞人心的案例

or some of the countries in the Arab world.

You must have all seen the Arab Spring,

通过近期发生在突尼斯和埃及的事件

which began in Tunis and in Egypt.

你应该已经看到了阿拉伯世界的春天

Arab masses just revolted against their dictators.

阿拉伯的民众

反抗他们的独裁者

They were asking for democracy; they were asking for freedom.

他们要求民主；他们要求自由

他们并不是伊斯兰的柏拉图

And they did not turn out to be the Islamist boogeyman

that the dictators were always using to justify their regime.

独裁者们过去总是

为他们的政治体制辩护

他们说”我们渴望自由，我们渴望民主“

They said, "We want freedom; we want democracy.

We are Muslim believers,

我们是伊斯兰教徒

but we want to be living as free people in free societies."

但是我们希望作为一个自由的人生活在自由的社会

当然，改革的路是漫长的

Of course, this is a long road.

民主不是一天建立的

Democracy is not an overnight achievement; it's a process.

需要一个过程

但是在穆斯林世界

But this is a promising era in the Muslim world.

这是一个前途光明的时代

我相信起源于19世纪

And I believe that the Islamic modernism which began in the 19th century,

在20世纪

but which had a setback in the 20th century

因为穆斯林世界政治原因结束的

伊斯兰现代主义

because of the political troubles of the Muslim world,

正在复兴

is having a rebirth.

我认为从我得到信息来看

And I think the takeaway message from that would be that Islam,

正是那样的伊斯兰教

despite some of the skeptics in the West,

尽管一些西方无神论者抱着怀疑的态度

has the potential in itself

但是伊斯兰教本身蕴藏着潜力

to create its own way to democracy, create its own way to liberalism,

去开创属于他们的民主，开创属于他们的自由主义

create its own way to freedom.

开创属于他们的自由

They just should be allowed to work for that.

他们应该被允许为之努力

非常感谢

Thanks so much.

(Applause)

（掌声）