Mustafa Akyol: Faith versus tradition in Islam

118,470 views ・ 2011-05-26

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

Translator: Mirjana Kosic Reviewer: Mislav Ante Omazić - EFZG
Prije nekoliko sedmica
00:16
A few weeks ago, I had a chance to go to Saudi Arabia.
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dobio sam priliku da posjetim Saudijsku Arabiju.
00:20
And the first thing I wanted to do as a Muslim
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I prvo što sam kao Musliman želio da uradim
00:23
was to go to Mecca and visit the Kaaba,
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bilo je da odem u Meccu i posjetim Kaabu,
00:25
the holiest shrine of Islam.
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najsvetiji islamski hram.
00:27
And I did that; I put on my ritualistic dress,
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I to sam i učinio; obukao sam svoju ritualnu odoru;
otišao do svete džamije;
00:30
I went to the holy mosque,
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00:31
I did my prayers,
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obavio svoju molitvu;
00:33
I observed all the rituals.
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ispoštovao sve rituale.
U međuvremenu,
00:36
And meanwhile, besides all the spirituality,
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pored sve te duhovnosti,
00:39
there was one mundane detail in the Kaaba
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jedan posve običan detalj u Kaabi
00:41
that was pretty interesting for me:
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mi se učinio veoma zanimljivim.
00:43
there was no separation of sexes.
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Nije bilo odvajanja među polovima.
00:45
In other words, men and women were worshiping all together.
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Drugim riječima, muškarci i žene
su se svi zajedno molili.
Bili su zajedno tokom hodočašća,
00:50
They were together while doing tawāf, the circular walk around the Kaaba.
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hodanja u krug oko Kaabe.
00:54
They were together while praying.
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Bili su zajedno dok se se molili.
00:56
And if you wonder why this is interesting at all,
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I ako se pitate zbog čega je ovo uopšte zanimljivo,
morali biste vidjeti ostatak Saudijske Arabije,
01:00
you have to see the rest of Saudi Arabia,
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01:02
because this a country which is strictly divided between the sexes.
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jer je to zemlja
koja je strogo podjeljena između polova.
01:07
In other words:
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Drugim riječima,
01:09
as men, you are simply not supposed to be in the same physical space
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od vas, kao muškaraca, se jednostavno ne očekuje
da budete u istom fizičkom prostoru sa ženama.
01:12
with women.
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01:13
And I noticed this in a very funny way.
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A to sam primijetio na jako smiješan način.
01:15
I left the Kaaba to eat something in downtown Mecca.
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Krenuo sam iz Kaabe
kako bih nešto pojeo u centru Mecce.
01:19
I headed to the nearest Burger King restaurant.
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Uputio sam se ka najbližem Burger King restoranu.
I ušao sam --
01:22
And I went there -- I noticed that there was a male section,
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i primijetio da postoji dio za muškarce,
01:25
which is carefully separated from the female section.
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koji je pažljivo odvojen od ženskog dijela.
01:28
I had to pay, order and eat in the male section.
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Morao sam platiti, naručiti i jesti u muškom dijelu.
01:31
"It's funny," I said to myself,
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"Ovo je ludo", rekao sam sâm sebi,
01:33
"You can mingle with the opposite sex at the holy Kaaba,
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"možeš se miješati sa suprotnim polom u svetoj Kaabi,
01:36
but not at the Burger King?"
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ali ne u Burger King-u."
01:38
(Laughter)
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Prilično ironično.
01:39
Quite, quite ironic.
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Ironično, no mislim da istovremeno nešto i kazuje.
01:41
Ironic, and it's also, I think, quite telling,
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01:43
because the Kaaba and the rituals around it
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Zbog toga što su Kaaba i rituali koji se vrše oko nje
01:46
are relics from the earliest phase of Islam,
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relikti iz najranije faze Islama,
01:49
that of prophet Muhammad.
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iz doba proroka Muhammada.
01:51
And if there was a big emphasis at the time to separate men from women,
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I da se u to vrijeme insistiralo
na odvajanju muškaraca od žena,
01:55
the rituals around the Kaaba could have been designed accordingly.
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rituali oko Kaabe bi bili osmišljeni u skladu sa time.
01:58
But apparently, that was not an issue at the time.
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No, očigledno je da u to vrijeme to nije bio problem.
Tako su nastali i rituali.
02:01
So the rituals came that way.
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02:02
This is also, I think, confirmed by the fact
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Mislim da je to također potvrđeno
činjenicom da je odvajanje žena
02:05
that the seclusion of women in creating a divided society
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u stvaranju podijeljenog društva
02:08
is something that you also do not find in the Koran --
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još jedna stvar koja se ne može naći u Kuranu,
samoj srži Islama --
02:12
the very core of Islam, the divine core of Islam --
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božanskoj srži Islama
02:15
that all Muslims, equally myself, believe.
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u koju svi Muslimani, kao i ja sam, vjeruju.
I mislim da nije slučajnost
02:19
And I think it's not an accident
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02:20
that you don't find this idea in the very origin of Islam,
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da se ta ideja ne može naći
u samom porijeklu Islama.
02:24
because many scholars who study the history of Islamic thought --
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Zbog toga što mnogi učeni ljudi
koji izučavaju istoriju islamske misli --
02:28
Muslim scholars or Westerners --
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Muslimani, kao i oni sa Zapada --
02:30
think that, actually, the practice of dividing men and women physically
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smatraju da je zapravo
fizička podjela muškaraca i žena .
02:34
came as a later development in Islam,
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postala dio prakse u kasnijem razvoju Islama,
02:37
as Muslims adopted some preexisting cultures
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kako su Muslimani usvajali
neke od postojećih kultura i tradicija Srednjeg istoka.
02:40
and traditions of the Middle East.
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02:42
Seclusion of women was actually a Byzantine and Persian practice,
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Odvajanje žena se zapravo
praktikovalo u Vizantiji i Persiji,
a Muslimani su usvojili taj običaj
02:47
and Muslims adopted it and made it a part of their religion.
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i učinili ga dijelom svoje religije.
02:51
Actually, this is just one example of a much larger phenomenon.
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A ovo je zapravo tek jedan od primjera
mnogo većeg fenomena.
02:55
What we call today Islamic law, and especially Islamic culture --
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Onog koji danas nazivamo islamskim zakonom, i naročito islamskom kulturom --
iako ih zapravo ima više;
02:59
and there are many Islamic cultures, actually;
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islamska kultura u Saudijskoj Arabiji se značajno razlikuje
03:01
the one in Saudi Arabia is much different
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od kulture u Istanbulu, odakle ja dolazim, ili u Turskoj.
03:03
from where I come from in Istanbul or Turkey.
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03:05
But still, if you're going to speak about a Muslim culture,
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Pa ipak,
ako ćemo govoriti o muslimanskoj kulturi,
03:09
this has a core: the divine message which began the religion.
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ona ima srž, božansku poruku,
kojom je otpočela religija,
03:13
But then many traditions, perceptions, practices were added on top of it.
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no tada su mnoge tradicije, percepcije,
kao i mnoge prakse pridodane na to.
03:18
And these were traditions of the Middle East medieval traditions.
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A to su bili tradicije Srednjeg istoka – srednjovjekovne tradicije.
03:22
There are two important messages, or two lessons,
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Dvije značajne poruke, ili dvije lekcije,
se mogu izvući iz te realnosti .
03:26
to take from that reality.
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03:28
First of all, Muslims --
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Prije svega, Muslimani --
03:30
pious, conservative, believing Muslims who want to be loyal to their religion --
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pobožni, konzervativni, vjernici Muslimani koji žele biti odani svojoj religiji --
ne bi se trebali držati svega u svojoj kulturi,
03:34
should not cling onto everything in their culture,
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03:36
thinking that that's divinely mandated.
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i misliti da je to određeno božanskom nakanom.
Možda su neke od ovih tradicija loše
03:39
Maybe some things are bad traditions and they need to be changed.
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i trebale bi se izmijeniti.
03:42
On the other hand, the Westerners who look at Islamic culture
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S druge strane, Zapadnjaci
koji posmatraju islamsku kulturu
03:46
and see some troubling aspects
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i u njoj vide neke zabrinjavajuće aspekte
03:48
should not readily conclude that this is what Islam ordains.
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ne bi trebali da isuviše olako zaključuju da je to nešto što Islam određuje.
03:51
Maybe it's a Middle Eastern culture that became confused with Islam.
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Možda je kultura Srednjeg istoka
pobrkana sa Islamom.
Na primjer, praksa ženskog obrezivanja.
03:56
There is a practice called female circumcision.
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To je nešto što je užasno, prestrašno.
03:59
It's something terrible, horrible.
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04:01
It is basically an operation to deprive women of sexual pleasure.
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U suštini, to je operacija
kojom se ženama oduzima sposobnost seksualnog užitka.
04:06
And Westerners --
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Zapadnjaci, Evropljani ili Amerikanci,
04:07
Europeans or Americans -- who didn't know about this before,
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koji nisu znali ništa o ovome
04:11
[saw] this practice
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suočili su se sa tom praksom
04:13
within some of the Muslim communities who migrated from North Africa.
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u nekima od muslimanskih zajednica
koje se migrirale iz sjeverne Afrike.
04:17
And they've thought,
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I pomislili su "Kakva užasna religija
04:18
"Oh, what a horrible religion that is, which ordains something like that."
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da propisuje nešto takvo."
No, zapravo, ako razmislite o ženskom obrezivanju,
04:23
But when you look at female circumcision,
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vidite da ono nema nikakve veze sa Islamom,
04:25
you see that it has nothing to do with Islam;
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to je običaj koji se praktikovao u sjevernoj Africi,
04:27
it's just a North African practice which predates Islam.
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još prije Islama.
04:30
It was there for thousands of years.
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Tu je praktikovan hiljadama godina.
04:32
And, quite tellingly, some Muslims do practice it --
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I sasvim sigurno, neki Muslimani praktikuju taj običaj.
Muslimani u sjevernoj Africi, ali ne na drugim mjestima.
04:36
the Muslims in North Africa, not in other places.
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04:38
But also the non-Muslim communities of North Africa --
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Međutim, poznato je da čak i ne-muslimanske zajednice u sjevernoj Africi --
Animisti, pa čak i neki Hrišćani
04:42
the animists, some Christians and even a Jewish tribe in North Africa --
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i jedno jevrejsko pleme u sjevernoj Africi
vrše obrezivanje žena.
04:46
are known to practice female circumcision.
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04:48
So what might look like a problem within Islamic faith
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Znači, moglo bi se ispostaviti da je ono što se posmatra kao problem
u islamskoj vjeri
04:53
might turn out to be a tradition that Muslims have subscribed to.
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zapravo tradicija
koju su Muslimani prihvatili.
04:57
The same thing can be said for honor killings,
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Isto bi se moglo reći i za ubistva iz časti,
04:59
which is a recurrent theme in the Western media --
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koja su vječna tema u Zapadnim medijima --
05:02
and which is, of course, a horrible tradition.
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a koja, naravno, predstavljaju jednu strašnu tradiciju.
05:05
And we see, truly, in some Muslim communities, that tradition.
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I mi uistinu vidimo da ta tradicija postoji u nekima od muslimanskih zajednica.
Ali i u ne-muslimanskim zajednicama Srednjeg istoka,
05:09
But in the non-Muslim communities of the Middle East,
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kao i u nekim hrišćanskim zajednicama, istočnim zajednicama,
05:12
such as some Christian communities, Eastern communities,
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nailazimo na istu praksu.
05:14
you see the same practice.
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05:15
We had a tragic case of an honor killing
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Imali smo tragičan slučaj ubistva iz časti
unutar tursko-jermenske zajednice
05:18
within Turkey's Armenian community just a few months ago.
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prije svega nekoliko mjeseci.
05:21
Now, these are things about general culture,
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No, ovo su pitanja opšte kulture,
05:23
but I'm also very much interested in political culture
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dok sam ja također veoma zainteresovan za političku kulturu
05:26
and whether liberty and democracy is appreciated,
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i da li se sloboda i demokratija cijene,
05:29
or whether there's an authoritarian political culture
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ili je prisutna autoritarna politička kultura
05:32
in which the state is supposed to impose things on the citizens.
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u kojoj se od države očekuje da građanima sve nameće.
Nije tajna
05:36
And it is no secret
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05:37
that many Islamic movements in the Middle East
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da mnogi islamski pokreti na Srednjem istoku
imaju sklonost ka autoritarizmu,
05:40
tend to be authoritarian,
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05:41
and some of the so-called "Islamic regimes,"
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a neki od takozvanih 'islamskih režima',
05:44
such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and the worst case, the Taliban in Afghanistan,
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poput Saudijske Arabije, Irana
i kao najgori primjer Talibana u Afganistanu,
05:49
they are pretty authoritarian -- no doubt about that.
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su poprilično autoritarni – u to nema sumnje.
Na primjer, u Saudijskoj Arabiji
05:52
For example, in Saudi Arabia,
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05:53
there is a phenomenon called the religious police.
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postoji fenomen koji se zove policija za religiju.
05:56
And the religious police imposes the supposed Islamic way of life
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Ta policija nameće
tobožnji islamski način života,
06:00
on every citizen, by force --
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svakome građaninu, silom --
06:02
like, women are forced to cover their heads --
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npr. žene su primorane da pokrivaju glave --
nose hidžab, islamsko pokrivalo za glavu.
06:05
wear the hijab, the Islamic head cover.
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To je nešto što je prilično autoritarno
06:09
Now that is pretty authoritarian,
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i prema čemu sam jako kritičan.
06:10
and that's something I'm very much critical of.
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Međutim, kada sam uvidjeo
06:13
But when I realized that the non-Muslim,
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da se oni koji nisu Muslimani,
06:17
or the non-Islamic-minded actors in the same geography
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ili nisu istomišljenici Islama u istom geografskom okruženju,
ponekad ponašaju na sličan način,
06:21
sometimes behaved similarly,
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06:22
I realized that the problem maybe lies
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shvatio sam da je problem možda
06:24
in the political culture of the whole region, not just Islam.
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u političkoj kulturi cijelog regiona, ne samo Islama.
06:27
Let me give you an example: in Turkey, where I come from,
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Daću vam jedan primjer: u Turskoj, odakle dolazim,
06:30
which is a very hyper-secular republic,
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koja je jedna izuzetno sekularna republika,
06:32
until very recently, we used to have what I call "secularism police,"
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sve donedavno
smo imali nešto što ja nazivam sekularističkom policijom
koja je čuvala univerzitete
06:38
which would guard the universities against veiled students.
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od pokrivenih studentkinja.
06:42
In other words, they would force students to uncover their heads.
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Drugim riječima, oni bi primoravali studentkinje
da otkriju glave.
06:47
And I think forcing people to uncover their head
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A ja smatram da je prisiljavanje žena da otkriju glave
06:49
is as tyrannical as forcing them to cover it.
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podjednako tiranski kao i prisiljavanje da ih pokriju.
To bi trebala biti odluka građana.
06:53
It should be the citizen's decision.
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06:54
But when I saw that, I said,
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No, kada sam to vidjeo, rekao sam,
06:56
"Maybe the problem is just an authoritarian culture in the region,
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"Možda je problem
naprosto u autoritarnoj kulturi ovog regiona,
07:00
and some Muslims have been influenced by that.
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i neki Muslimani su bili pod tim uticajem."
Ali i ljudi koji su po svojim ubjeđenjima sekularni se mogu naći pod tim uticajem.
07:03
But the secular-minded people can be influenced by that.
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07:05
Maybe it's a problem of the political culture,
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Možda je to problem političke kulture
i mi moramo razmisliti
07:08
and we have to think about how to change that political culture."
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kako da promijenimo tu političku kulturu.
07:11
Now, these are some of the questions I had in mind a few years ago
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Ovo su neka od pitanja
o kojima sam razmišljao prije nekoliko godina
07:15
when I sat down to write a book.
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kada sam sjeo da napišem knjigu.
07:17
I said, "Well, I will do research
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Rekao sam: "Pa dobro, sprovešću istraživanje
o tome kako je Islam zapravo postao ovo što je danas,
07:20
about how Islam actually came to be what it is today,
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kojim putevima se išlo
07:25
and what roads were taken and what roads could have been taken."
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a kojima se moglo ići."
Naslov knjige je 'Islam bez ekstrema: Borba Muslimana za slobodu.'
07:29
The name of the book is "Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty."
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07:33
And as the subtitle suggests,
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Kao što i sam podnaslov sugeriše,
07:35
I looked at Islamic tradition and the history of Islamic thought
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posmatrao sam islamsku tradiciju i istoriju islamske misli
07:38
from the perspective of individual liberty,
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iz perspektive pojedinačne slobode,
07:40
and I tried to find what are the strengths with regard to individual liberty.
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i pokušao sam utvrditi koje su snažne strane
u vezi sa pojedinačnom slobodom.
07:44
And there are strengths in Islamic tradition.
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Postoje jake strane u islamskoj tradiciji.
Islam zapravo, kao monoteistička religija,
07:47
Islam, actually, as a monotheistic religion,
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07:49
which defined man as a responsible agent by itself,
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koja definiše čovjeka kao odgovornog faktora samog po sebi,
07:53
created the idea of the individual in the Middle East,
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stvorila je ideju o pojedincu na Srednjem istoku
i spasila ga od komunitarizma,
07:56
and saved it from the communitarianism, the collectivism of the tribe.
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plemenskog kolektivizma.
08:00
You can derive many ideas from that.
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Iz toga se može izvući mnogo ideja.
08:02
But besides that, I also saw problems within Islamic tradition.
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No, pored toga, također sam uvidjeo probleme unutar islamske tradicije.
08:05
But one thing was curious:
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Jedna stvar je bila neobična:
08:07
most of those problems turn out to be problems that emerged later,
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ispostavilo se da većina ovih problema predstavlja probleme koji su se pojavili kasnije,
08:10
not from the very divine core of Islam, the Koran,
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i to ne iz božanske srži Islama, Kurana,
08:13
but from, again, traditions and mentalities,
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već opet iz tradicija i mentaliteta
ili tumačenja Kurana
08:17
or the interpretations of the Koran that Muslims made in the Middle Ages.
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od strane Muslimana u srednjem vijeku.
Kuran, na primjer,
08:21
The Koran, for example, doesn't condone stoning.
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ne osuđuje kamenovanje.
08:24
There is no punishment for apostasy.
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Nema kazne za izdaju.
08:26
There is no punishment for personal sins like drinking.
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Nema kazne za stvari lične prirode, poput konzumiranja alkohola.
Ove stvari koji čine islamski Zakon,
08:30
These things which make Islamic law,
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08:33
the troubling aspects of Islamic law,
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zabrinjavajući aspekti islamskog Zakona,
08:36
were developed into later interpretations of Islam.
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kasnije su razvijeni u naknadna tumačenja Islama.
08:39
Which means that Muslims can, today,
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Što znači da Muslimani danas mogu
08:41
look at those things and say,
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pogledati na ove stvari i reći,
08:43
"Well, the core of our religion is here to stay with us.
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"Pa dobro, suština naše religije
će ostati nepromijenjena.
08:47
It's our faith, and we will be loyal to it.
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To je naša vjera i mi ćemo joj biti odani."
08:49
But we can change how it was interpreted,
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Ali mi možemo izmijeniti sâmo tumačenje,
08:51
because it was interpreted according to the time
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jer je vjera protumačena u skladu sa vremenom i miljeom srednjeg vijeka.
08:53
and milieu in the Middle Ages.
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Sada živimo u drugačijem svijetu
08:55
Now we're living in a different world,
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sa drugačijim vrijednostima i drugačijim političkim sistemima.
08:57
with different values and political systems."
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Takvo tumačenje je sasvim moguće i ostvarivo.
08:59
That interpretation is quite possible and feasible.
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09:02
Now, if I were the only person thinking that way,
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Kada bih ja bio jedina osoba koja razmišlja na takav način,
09:05
we would be in trouble.
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imali bismo problem.
09:08
But that's not the case at all.
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Međutim, to uopšte nije slučaj.
09:10
Actually, from the 19th century on,
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Zapravo, od 19. vijeka naovamo,
09:13
there's a whole revisionist, reformist -- whatever you call it -- tradition,
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postoji cijela revizionistička, reformistička --
kako god da je nazovete --
tradicija,
09:19
a trend in Islamic thinking.
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trend u islamskoj misli.
09:22
These were intellectuals or statesmen
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To su bili intelektualci ili državnici
iz 19. vijeka, i kasnije 20. vijeka,
09:25
of the 19th century, and later, 20th century,
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09:27
which looked at Europe, basically,
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koji su zapravo posmatrali Evropu
09:29
and saw that Europe has many things to admire,
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i shvatili da Evropa ima mnogo toga za divljenje,
09:31
like science and technology.
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poput nauke i tehnologije.
09:33
But not just that; also democracy, parliament,
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I ne samo to; također i demokratiju, parlament ,
ideju o predstavljanju,
09:36
the idea of representation,
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09:37
the idea of equal citizenship.
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ideju o jednakim pravima građana.
09:39
These Muslim thinkers, intellectuals and statesmen of the 19th century,
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Ti muslimanski mislioci i intelektualci i državnici
iz 19. vijeka posmatrali su Evropu i vidjeli sve to.
09:44
looked at Europe, saw these things, and said,
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Rekli su: "Zašto mi to nemamo?"
09:46
"Why don't we have these things?"
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I potom su se osvrnuli na islamsku tradiciju,
09:48
And they looked back at Islamic tradition,
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2017
vidjeli su da postoje problematični aspekti,
09:50
and saw that there are problematic aspects,
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09:52
but they're not the core of the religion, so maybe they can be re-understood,
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ali oni ne čine suštinu religije, što znači da se mogu iznova shvatiti,
i da Kuran može da se iznova izuči
09:56
and the Koran can be reread in the modern world.
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u suvremenom svijetu.
09:59
That trend is generally called Islamic modernism,
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Taj trend
se generalno naziva islamskim modernizmom,
10:04
and it was advanced by intellectuals and statesmen,
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a unaprijedili su ga intelektualci i državnici,
10:07
not just as an intellectual idea, though,
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2094
doduše ne samo kao intelektualnu ideju,
10:09
but also as a political program.
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već i kao politički program.
10:11
And that's why, actually, in the 19th century,
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I upravo zbog toga je u 19. vijeku
10:13
the Ottoman Empire, which then covered the whole Middle East,
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Otomansko carstvo, koje je u to vrijeme zauzimalo cijeli Srednji istok,
sprovelo izuzetno značajne reforme --
10:17
made very important reforms --
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2216
10:19
reforms like giving Christians and Jews an equal citizenship status,
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poput onih koje su Hrišćanima i Jevrejima
dale jednak status građana,
prihvatanja ustava,
10:24
accepting a constitution,
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1562
10:25
accepting a representative parliament,
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prihvatanja reprezentativnog parlamenta,
10:27
advancing the idea of freedom of religion.
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unaprjeđenje ideje slobode religije.
10:30
That's why the Ottoman Empire, in its last decades,
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I stoga se Otomansko carstvo u svojim poslednji decenijama
10:33
turned into a proto-democracy, a constitutional monarchy,
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pretvorilo u proto-demokratiju,
ustavnu monarhiju.
10:37
and freedom was a very important political value at the time.
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3252
A sloboda je u to vrijeme imala izuzetno značajnu političku vrijednost.
10:40
Similarly, in the Arab world,
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Slično tome, u arapskom svijetu
10:42
there was what the great Arab historian Albert Hourani defines
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je nastupilo ono što čuveni arapski istoričar Albert Hourani
definiše kao liberalno doba.
10:46
as the Liberal Age.
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1151
10:47
He has a book, "Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age,"
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2543
On je napisao knjigu "Arapska misao u liberalnom dobu".
A kao liberalno doba on definiše
10:50
and the Liberal Age, he defines as 19th century and early 20th century.
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19. vijek i početak 20. vijeka.
Sasvim primjetno, ovo je bio trend koji je prevladavao
10:55
Quite notably, this was the dominant trend in the early 20th century
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s početka 20. vijeka
10:59
among Islamic thinkers and statesmen and theologians.
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među islamskim misliocima, državnicima i teolozima. .
11:03
But there is a very curious pattern in the rest of the 20th century,
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Međutim, postoji jako zanimljiv obrazac
tokom ostatka 20. vijeka,
11:07
because we see a sharp decline in this Islamic modernist line.
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4271
gdje vidimo snažan pad
u toj islamskoj modernističkoj liniji.
11:11
And in place of that,
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1647
Umjesto toga,
11:13
what happens is that Islamism grows as an ideology which is authoritarian,
225
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6419
došlo je do jačanja Islamizma
kao autoritarne ideologije,
11:19
which is quite strident,
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1862
koja je prilično prodorna,
11:21
which is quite anti-Western,
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2447
prilično anti-zapadna
i koja želi oblikovati društvo
11:24
and which wants to shape society based on a utopian vision.
228
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3632
na osnovu utopističke vizije.
11:27
So Islamism is the problematic idea
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3031
Znači, Islamizam je problematična ideja
11:30
that really created a lot of problems in the 20th-century Islamic world.
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4118
koja je zapravo stvorila mnogo problema
u islamskom svijetu 20. vijeka.
11:35
And even the very extreme forms of Islamism
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Čak su i veoma ekstremni vidovi Islamizma
11:38
led to terrorism in the name of Islam --
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2156
doveli do terorizma u ime Islama --
koji je zapravo praksa za koju smatram da je protiv Islama,
11:42
which is actually a practice that I think is against Islam,
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2840
11:44
but some, obviously, extremists, did not think that way.
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2986
međutim neki očigledno ekstremisti nisu mislili na isti način.
11:47
But there is a curious question:
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1649
No, javlja se zanimljivo pitanje:
11:49
If Islamic modernism was so popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries,
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4976
ako je islamski modernizam bio toliko popularan
u 19. i početkom 20. vijeka,
11:54
why did Islamism become so popular in the rest of the 20th century?
237
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4114
zašto je Islamizam postao tako popularan
kasnije tokom ostatka 20. vijeka?
Ovo je pitanje o kojem je, smatram,
11:59
And this is a question, I think, which needs to be discussed carefully.
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potrebno pažljivo razgovarati.
12:02
In my book, I went into that question as well.
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2211
U svojoj knjizi sam se takođe bavio tim pitanjem.
12:04
And actually, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.
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Zapravo ne morate biti pretjerano pametni da biste to shvatili.
12:08
Just look at the political history of the 20th century,
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2654
Pogledajte samo političku istoriju 20. vijeka
i vidjećete da se mnogo toga jako promijenilo.
12:11
and you see things have changed a lot.
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1921
Kontekst je izmijenjen.
12:13
The contexts have changed.
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1351
12:14
In the 19th century,
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1357
U 19. vijeku,
12:15
when Muslims were looking at Europe as an example,
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2814
kada su se Muslimani ugledali na Evropu kao primjer,
12:18
they were independent; they were more self-confident.
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2706
bili su nezavisni i imali su mnogo više samopouzdanja.
12:21
In the early 20th century, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire,
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3001
Početkom 20. vijeka, padom Otomanskog carstva,
12:24
the whole Middle East was colonized.
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2385
cijeli Srednji istok je bio kolonizovan.
12:27
And when you have colonialization, what do you have?
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2485
A kada imate kolonizaciju, šta se dešava?
12:29
You have anti-colonialization.
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1849
Tada imate anti-kolonizaciju.
12:31
So Europe is not just an example now to emulate;
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Znači, Evropa više nije uzor koji treba oponašati;
12:34
it's an enemy to fight and to resist.
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2737
već je neprijatelj protiv kojeg se treba boriti i kojemu se treba oduprijeti.
12:37
So there's a very sharp decline in liberal ideas in the Muslim world,
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4327
Došlo je do izuzetno oštrog opadanja
liberalne ideje u muslimanskom svijetu,
i ono što se vidi je defanzivnija,
12:42
and what you see is more of a defensive, rigid, reactionary strain,
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kruća, reakcionistička crta,
12:47
which led to Arab socialism, Arab nationalism
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2197
koji je dovela do arapskog socijalizma, arapskog nacionalizma
12:49
and ultimately to the Islamist ideology.
256
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2222
i na koncu do islamske ideologije.
12:52
And when the colonial period ended,
257
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2768
Kada je kolonijalno doba okončalo,
12:55
what you had in place of that was generally secular dictators,
258
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4653
njega su zamijenili
uglavnom sekularni diktatori,
koji kažu da su oni zemlja,
13:00
which say they're a country,
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1621
13:01
but did not bring democracy to the country,
260
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2053
ali koji nisu donijeli demokratiju u zemlju,
13:03
and established their own dictatorship.
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1878
već su uspostavili sopstveno diktatorstvo.
13:05
And I think the West, at least some powers in the West,
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3463
Mislim da je Zapad, ili barem neke zapadne sile,
naročito Sjedinjene Države,
13:09
particularly the United States,
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1528
13:10
made the mistake of supporting those secular dictators,
264
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2663
pogriješile time što su dale podršku tim sekularnim diktatorima,
13:13
thinking that they were more helpful for their interests.
265
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misleći da će oni biti od veće pomoći njihovim interesima.
13:16
But the fact that those dictators suppressed democracy in their country
266
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3784
No, činjenica da su ti diktatori
gušenjem demokratije u svojim zemljama
13:20
and suppressed Islamic groups in their country
267
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2192
i gušenjem islamskih grupa
13:22
actually made the Islamists much more strident.
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2473
zapravo učinili da Islamisti postanu mnogo glasniji.
Tako smo u 20. vijeku
13:25
So in the 20th century,
269
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1352
13:26
you had this vicious cycle in the Arab world,
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2155
imali ovaj začarani krug u arapskom svijetu
13:28
where you have a dictatorship suppressing its own people,
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3003
gdje su diktatorski režimi tlačili sopstveni narod,
13:31
including the Islamic pious,
272
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1770
uključujući i one pobožne,
13:33
and they're reacting in reactionary ways.
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2222
koji reaguju reakcionistički.
13:36
There was one country, though,
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1698
Doduše, samo jedna zemlja je
13:38
which was able to escape or stay away from that vicious cycle.
275
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5097
mogla pobjeći ili ostati izvan
tog začararanog kruga.
13:43
And that's the country where I come from, Turkey.
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2680
To je zemlja iz koje dolazim, Turska.
13:46
Turkey has never been colonized,
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2238
Turska nikada nije bila kolonizirana,
tako da se održala kao nezavisna nacija nakon pada Otomanskog carstva.
13:49
so it remained as an independent nation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
278
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3684
To je jedna stvar koju treba upamtiti.
13:52
That's one thing to remember;
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1416
Oni nisu imali isto anti-kolonijalno ludilo
13:54
it did not share the same anti-colonial hype
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2862
koje možete naći u nekima od zemalja tog regiona.
13:57
that you can find in some other countries in the region.
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2670
13:59
Secondly, and most importantly,
282
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1537
Kao drugo, i još značajnije,
14:01
Turkey became a democracy
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1559
Turska je postala demokratijom
14:03
earlier than any of the countries we are talking about.
284
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2589
prije svih ovih zemalja o kojima smo govorili.
14:05
In 1950, Turkey had the first free and fair elections,
285
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2572
Turska je 1950. godine imala prve slobodne i pravedne izbore
kojima je okončan sekularni režim koji je bio više autokratski,
14:08
which ended the more autocratic secular regime,
286
848256
2614
14:10
which was in the beginning of Turkey.
287
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1826
što je označilo početak Turske.
14:12
And the pious Muslims in Turkey
288
852744
1962
Pobožni Muslimani u Turskoj
14:14
saw that they could change the political system by voting.
289
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4069
su vidjeli da glasanjem mogu izmijeniti politički sistem.
14:18
And they realized that democracy is something compatible with Islam,
290
858823
3510
I uvidjeli su da je demokratija nešto što je kompatibilno sa Islamom,
kompatibilno sa njihovim vrijednostima
14:22
compatible with their values,
291
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1429
14:23
and they've been supportive of democracy.
292
863810
1977
i stoga su snažno podržali demokratiju.
14:25
That's an experience
293
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1825
To je iskustvo
14:27
that not every other Muslim nation in the Middle East had,
294
867660
2784
koje muslimanske zemlje Srednjeg istoka
nisu imale sve do nedavno.
14:30
until very recently.
295
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1168
14:31
Secondly, in the past two decades,
296
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2243
Kao drugo, tokom poslednje dvije decenije,
14:33
thanks to globalization, thanks to the market economy,
297
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2709
zahvaljujući globalizaciji, zahvaljujući tržišnoj ekonomiji,
14:36
thanks to the rise of a middle class,
298
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2298
zahvaljujući usponu srednje klase,
14:38
we in Turkey see what I define as a rebirth of Islamic modernism.
299
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4979
mi u Turskoj vidimo
ono što ja nazivam ponovnim rođenjem islamskog modernizma.
14:44
Now, there's the more urban middle-class pious Muslims
300
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3848
Sada postoji urbanija srednja klasa pobožnih Muslimana
koji, ponovo, posmatraju svoju tradiciju
14:48
who, again, look at their tradition
301
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2132
i vide da u njoj postoje izvjesni problemi.
14:50
and see that there are some problems in the tradition,
302
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2886
I oni shvataju da se isto moraju promijeniti, moraju se dovoditi u pitanje i reformirati.
14:53
and understand that they need to be changed and questioned and reformed.
303
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3434
A kada pogledaju Evropu,
14:56
And they look at Europe, and see an example, again, to follow.
304
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3477
i opet vide primjer koji bi trebali slijediti.
15:00
They see an example, at least, to take some inspiration from.
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2913
Vide primjer iz kojeg, barem, mogu izvući neku inspiraciju.
Zbog toga proces EU,
15:03
That's why the EU process, Turkey's effort to join the EU,
306
903160
3909
napor Turske da se pridruži EU,
u Turskoj ima podršku
15:07
has been supported inside Turkey by the Islamic pious,
307
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3658
tih pobožnih sljedbenika Islama,
15:10
while some secular nationalists were against it.
308
910775
2463
dok su neke od sekularnih nacija protiv toga.
15:13
Well, that process has been a little bit blurred
309
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2306
No, taj proces je malo zamagljen
činjenicom da ni svi Evropljani ne pozdravljaju ulazak novih zemalja --
15:16
by the fact that not all Europeans are that welcoming,
310
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2584
no to je tema za drugu diskusiju.
15:18
but that's another discussion.
311
918731
1574
15:20
But the pro-EU sentiment in Turkey in the past decade
312
920329
3463
Ali pro-EU osjećanja u Turskoj su u poslednjoj deceniji
15:23
has become almost an Islamic cause and supported by the Islamic liberals
313
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3996
postala gotovo islamski slučaj,
koji podržavaju islamski liberali,
15:27
and the secular liberals as well, of course.
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2130
kao i sekularni liberali, naravno.
15:30
And thanks to that,
315
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1272
I zahvaljujući tome,
15:31
Turkey has been able to reasonably create a success story
316
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3243
Turska je je uspjela da na razuman način izgradi uspješnu priču
15:34
in which Islam and the most pious understandings of Islam
317
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4825
u kojoj su Islam i najpobožnija razumijevanja Islama
15:39
have become part of the democratic game,
318
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1987
postali dijelom demokratske igre,
15:41
and even contributes to the democratic and economic advance of the country.
319
941837
4155
i čak doprinose demokratskom i ekonomskom
napretku zemlje.
15:46
And this has been an inspiring example right now
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I to je sada nadahnjujući primjer
za neke od islamskih pokreta
15:50
for some of the Islamic movements
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ili neke od zemalja arapskog svijeta.
15:52
or some of the countries in the Arab world.
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15:54
You must have all seen the Arab Spring,
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Svi ste morali vidjeti arapsko proljeće
15:56
which began in Tunis and in Egypt.
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koje je otpočelo u Tunisu i Egiptu.
15:59
Arab masses just revolted against their dictators.
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I arapske mase koje su se pobunile protiv svojih diktatora.
koje su se pobunile protiv svojih diktatora.
16:03
They were asking for democracy; they were asking for freedom.
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Tražili su demokratiju, tražili su slobodu.
I nisu se pretvorili u islamske babaroge
16:07
And they did not turn out to be the Islamist boogeyman
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16:09
that the dictators were always using to justify their regime.
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koje su diktatori koristili
kako bi opravdali svoje režime.
Rekli su „mi želimo slobodu, želimo demokratiju.
16:15
They said, "We want freedom; we want democracy.
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16:17
We are Muslim believers,
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Mi smo muslimanski vjernici,
16:19
but we want to be living as free people in free societies."
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ali želimo živjeti kao slobodni ljudi u slobodnim društvima.“
Naravno, put će biti dug.
16:23
Of course, this is a long road.
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Demokratija nije ostvarenje do kojeg se dolazi preko noći; .
16:25
Democracy is not an overnight achievement; it's a process.
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ona je proces.
No, ovo je epoha koja obećava
16:29
But this is a promising era in the Muslim world.
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u muslimanskom svijetu.
I ja vjerujem da islamski modernizam
16:33
And I believe that the Islamic modernism which began in the 19th century,
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koji je otpočeo u 19. vijeku,
16:36
but which had a setback in the 20th century
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ali koji je doživjeo zastoj u 20. vijeku
usljed političkih nevolja u muslimanskom svijetu,
16:39
because of the political troubles of the Muslim world,
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sada doživljava preporod.
16:41
is having a rebirth.
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I mislim da je poruka koja proizilazi iz toga
16:43
And I think the takeaway message from that would be that Islam,
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da Islam,
16:47
despite some of the skeptics in the West,
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uprkos nekim zapadnim skepticima,
16:50
has the potential in itself
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ima potencijal u sebi
16:52
to create its own way to democracy, create its own way to liberalism,
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da stvori sopstveni put ka demokratiji, da stvori sopstveni put ka liberalizmu,
16:55
create its own way to freedom.
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sopstveni put ka slobodi.
16:57
They just should be allowed to work for that.
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Samo im treba dopustiti da to i urade.
Hvala Vam mnogo.
17:00
Thanks so much.
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17:01
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
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