Mustafa Akyol: Faith versus tradition in Islam

Prevoditelj: Tilen Pigac - EFZG Recezent: Mislav Ante Omazić - EFZG

Prije nekoliko tjedana,

A few weeks ago, I had a chance to go to Saudi Arabia.

imao sam priliku posjetiti Saudijsku Arabiju.

And the first thing I wanted to do as a Muslim

I prva stvar koju sam htio učiniti kao Musliman

was to go to Mecca and visit the Kaaba,

je otići u Mecca-u i posjetiti Kaaba-u,

the holiest shrine of Islam.

najsvetiji hram Islama.

And I did that; I put on my ritualistic dress,

I učinio sam to; obukao sam svoju ritualnu odjeću;

otišao sam u svetu džamiju;

I went to the holy mosque,

I did my prayers,

pomolio se;

I observed all the rituals.

promatrao sam sve rituale.

I u međuvremenu,

And meanwhile, besides all the spirituality,

pokraj cijele te duhovnosti,

there was one mundane detail in the Kaaba

postojao je jedan trivijalan detalj u Kaaba-i

that was pretty interesting for me:

koji mi se činio prilično interesantan.

there was no separation of sexes.

Nije postojala odvojenost spolova.

In other words, men and women were worshiping all together.

Drugim riječima, muškarci i žene

su zajedno štovali.

Bili su zajedno prilikom tawaf-a,

They were together while doing tawāf, the circular walk around the Kaaba.

kružne šetnje oko Kaaba-e.

They were together while praying.

Bili su zajedno tijekom molitve.

And if you wonder why this is interesting at all,

I ako se pitate zašto je to uopće zanimljivo,

morate vidjeti ostatak Saudijske Arabije,

you have to see the rest of Saudi Arabia,

because this a country which is strictly divided between the sexes.

jer je to zemlja

u kojoj postoji stroga podjela među spolovima.

In other words:

Drugim riječima,

as men, you are simply not supposed to be in the same physical space

kao muškarci, ne biste trebali biti

u istom fizičkom prostoru sa ženama.

with women.

And I noticed this in a very funny way.

I primjetio sam to na vrlo smiješan način.

I left the Kaaba to eat something in downtown Mecca.

Napustio sam Kaaba-u

kako bih pojeo nešto u centru Mecca-e.

I headed to the nearest Burger King restaurant.

Uputio sam se prema najbližem Burger King restoranu.

I otišao sam tamo --

And I went there -- I noticed that there was a male section,

primjetio sam kako postoji muška sekcija,

which is carefully separated from the female section.

koja je bila pažljivo odvojena od ženske sekcije.

I had to pay, order and eat in the male section.

I morao sam platiti, naručiti i jesti u muškoj sekciji.

"It's funny," I said to myself,

"Smiješno je to", rekao sam sebi,

"You can mingle with the opposite sex at the holy Kaaba,

"možete se družiti sa suprotnim spolom u svetoj Kaaba-i,

but not at the Burger King?"

ali ne i u Burger Kingu."

(Laughter)

Prilično ironično.

Quite, quite ironic.

Ironično, ali ujedno, mislim, i prilično snažno.

Ironic, and it's also, I think, quite telling,

because the Kaaba and the rituals around it

Jer su Kaaba i rituali oko nje

are relics from the earliest phase of Islam,

i relikvije iz najranije faze Islama,

that of prophet Muhammad.

faze proroka Muhameda.

And if there was a big emphasis at the time to separate men from women,

I kada bi u to vrijeme postojao veliki naglasak

na odvajanju muškaraca od žena,

the rituals around the Kaaba could have been designed accordingly.

rituali oko Kaaba-e bi bili dizajnirani sukladno tome.

But apparently, that was not an issue at the time.

Ali očito u to vrijeme to nije bilo tako.

Stoga su se rituali pojavili na ovaj način.

So the rituals came that way.

This is also, I think, confirmed by the fact

To je ujedno, mislim, potvrđeno

činjenicom kako odvojenost žena

that the seclusion of women in creating a divided society

u stvaranju podijeljenog društva

is something that you also do not find in the Koran --

je nešto što isto tako ne možete pronaći u Kuranu,

samoj srži Islama --

the very core of Islam, the divine core of Islam --

veličanstvenoj srži Islama

that all Muslims, equally myself, believe.

u koju svi muslimani, kao i ja, vjerujemo.

Mislim kako to nije slučajnost

And I think it's not an accident

that you don't find this idea in the very origin of Islam,

što ne pronalazite tu ideju

u samom izvoru Islama.

because many scholars who study the history of Islamic thought --

Jer mnogi učenjaci

koji proučavaju povijest islamske misli --

Muslim scholars or Westerners --

muslimanski učenjaci ili zapadnjaci --

think that, actually, the practice of dividing men and women physically

smatraju kako je zapravo praksa

fizičkog razdvajanja muškaraca i žena

came as a later development in Islam,

došla kao kasniji razvoj u Islamu,

as Muslims adopted some preexisting cultures

kako su muslimani usvojili

neke već postojeće kulture i tradicije Bliskog Istoka.

and traditions of the Middle East.

Seclusion of women was actually a Byzantine and Persian practice,

Odvojenost žena je zapravo bila

praksa Bizantinaca i Perzijanaca,

a muslimani su to usvojili

and Muslims adopted it and made it a part of their religion.

i učinili to dijelom svoje religije.

Actually, this is just one example of a much larger phenomenon.

I zapravo to je samo jedan primjer

mnogo većeg fenomena.

What we call today Islamic law, and especially Islamic culture --

Ono što danas zovemo zakonom Islama, i posebno islamska kultura --

a zapravo postoji mnogo islamskih kultura;

and there are many Islamic cultures, actually;

ona u Saudijskoj Arabiji je bitno drugačija

the one in Saudi Arabia is much different

od one iz koje ja dolazim u Istanbulu ili Turskoj.

from where I come from in Istanbul or Turkey.

But still, if you're going to speak about a Muslim culture,

Ali ipak,

ako ćete pričati o muslimanskoj kulturi,

this has a core: the divine message which began the religion.

ona ima jezgru, prekrasnu poruku,

koja je započela religiju,

But then many traditions, perceptions, practices were added on top of it.

ali zatim je mnogo tradicija, percepcija,

mnogo praksi dodano na tu kulturu.

And these were traditions of the Middle East medieval traditions.

A to su tradicije Bliskog Istoka -- srednjovjekovne tradicije.

There are two important messages, or two lessons,

I postoje dvije važne poruke, ili dvije lekcije,

koje možete uzeti iz te stvarnosti.

to take from that reality.

First of all, Muslims --

Kao prvo, muslimani --

pious, conservative, believing Muslims who want to be loyal to their religion --

pobožni, konzervativni, muslimani vjernici koji žele biti odani svojoj religiji --

ne bi se trebali pridržavati svega u svojoj kulturi,

should not cling onto everything in their culture,

thinking that that's divinely mandated.

misleći kako je sve prekrasno pod mandatom.

Možda su neke stvari loše tradicije

Maybe some things are bad traditions and they need to be changed.

koje moraju biti promijenjene.

On the other hand, the Westerners who look at Islamic culture

S druge strane, zapadnjaci

koji promatraju islamsku kulturu

and see some troubling aspects

i vide neke problematične aspekte

should not readily conclude that this is what Islam ordains.

ne bi doista smjeli zaključivati kako je to ono što Islam naređuje.

Maybe it's a Middle Eastern culture that became confused with Islam.

Možda je to kultura Bliskog Istoka

koja je pobrkana s Islamom.

Postoji praksa zvana žensko obrezivanje.

There is a practice called female circumcision.

To je nešto užasno, strašno.

It's something terrible, horrible.

It is basically an operation to deprive women of sexual pleasure.

To je u osnovi operacija

koja lišava ženu seksualnog užitka.

And Westerners --

A zapadnjaci, Europljani ili Amerikanci,

Europeans or Americans -- who didn't know about this before,

koji prije nisu znali o tome

[saw] this practice

suočili su se s tom praksom

within some of the Muslim communities who migrated from North Africa.

unutar nekih muslimanskih zajednica

koje su migrirale iz sjeverne Afrike.

And they've thought,

I pomislili su, "O, kakva je to užasna religija

"Oh, what a horrible religion that is, which ordains something like that."

koja naređuje nešto takvo."

Ali kada zapravo promotrite žensko obrezivanje,

But when you look at female circumcision,

vidjet ćete kako nema nikakve veze s Islamom,

you see that it has nothing to do with Islam;

to je samo praksa sjeverne Afrike,

it's just a North African practice which predates Islam.

koja je nastala prije Islama.

It was there for thousands of years.

Postojala je tisućama godina.

And, quite tellingly, some Muslims do practice it --

I prilično snažno, neki muslimani to prakticiraju.

Muslimani u sjevernoj Africi, ne na drugim mjestima.

the Muslims in North Africa, not in other places.

But also the non-Muslim communities of North Africa --

Ali ujedno i ne-muslimanske zajednice sjeverne Afrike --

animisti, čak i neki kršćani

the animists, some Christians and even a Jewish tribe in North Africa --

i čak i židovsko pleme u sjevernoj Africi

je poznato po praksi ženskog obrezivanja.

are known to practice female circumcision.

So what might look like a problem within Islamic faith

Dakle, ono što bi moglo izgledati kao problem

unutar islamske vjere

might turn out to be a tradition that Muslims have subscribed to.

može se pretvoriti u tradiciju

na koju su se muslimani pretplatili.

The same thing can be said for honor killings,

Ista stvar bi se mogla reći za ubojstva iz časti,

which is a recurrent theme in the Western media --

što je ponavljajuća tema u zapadnim medijima --

and which is, of course, a horrible tradition.

a koja je, naravno, užasna tradicija.

And we see, truly, in some Muslim communities, that tradition.

I doista vidimo tu tradiciju u nekim muslimanskim zajednicama.

Ali u ne-muslimanskim zajednicama Bliskog Istoka,

But in the non-Muslim communities of the Middle East,

poput nekih kršćanskih zajednica, istočnih zajednica,

such as some Christian communities, Eastern communities,

vidite istu praksu.

you see the same practice.

We had a tragic case of an honor killing

Imali smo tragičan primjer časnog ubojstva

unutar armenijske zajednice u Turskoj

within Turkey's Armenian community just a few months ago.

prije samo nekoliko mjeseci.

Now, these are things about general culture,

Dakle, to su stvari o općoj kulturi,

but I'm also very much interested in political culture

ali mene jako interesira i politička kultura

and whether liberty and democracy is appreciated,

i jesu li sloboda i demokracija cjenjene,

or whether there's an authoritarian political culture

ili postoji autoritarna politička kultura

in which the state is supposed to impose things on the citizens.

u kojoj država nameće stvari svojim građanima.

I nije nikakva tajna

And it is no secret

that many Islamic movements in the Middle East

kako mnogi islamski pokreti na Bliskom Istoku

teže biti autoritativnima,

tend to be authoritarian,

and some of the so-called "Islamic regimes,"

a neki od takozvanih "islamskih režima"

such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and the worst case, the Taliban in Afghanistan,

poput Saudijske Arabije, Irana

i u najgorem slučaju Talibana u Afganistanu,

they are pretty authoritarian -- no doubt about that.

oni su prilično autoritativni -- nema sumnje o tome.

Na primjer, u Saudijskoj Arabiji

For example, in Saudi Arabia,

there is a phenomenon called the religious police.

postoji fenomen zvan religijska policija.

And the religious police imposes the supposed Islamic way of life

A religijska policija nameće

pretpostavljeni islamski način života

on every citizen, by force --

na svakog građanina, silom --

like, women are forced to cover their heads --

kao što su žene prisiljene da pokrivaju svoje glave --

nose svoj hijab, islamsko pokrivalo za glavu.

wear the hijab, the Islamic head cover.

To je prilično autoritativno,

Now that is pretty authoritarian,

i oko toga sam jako kritičan.

and that's something I'm very much critical of.

Ali kada sam shvatio

But when I realized that the non-Muslim,

kako se ne-muslimani,

or the non-Islamic-minded actors in the same geography

ili glumci ne-islamskog uma na istom geografskom području.

ponekad ponašaju slično,

sometimes behaved similarly,

I realized that the problem maybe lies

shvatio sam kako problem možda

in the political culture of the whole region, not just Islam.

leži u političkoj kulturi cijele regije, ne samo Islama.

Let me give you an example: in Turkey, where I come from,

Dopustite mi da vam dam primjer: u Turskoj od kuda ja dolazim,

which is a very hyper-secular republic,

koja je jako hiper-svjetovna republika,

until very recently, we used to have what I call "secularism police,"

sve do nedavno,

imali smo ono što ja nazivam svjetovna policija,

koja bi čuvala sveučilišta

which would guard the universities against veiled students.

od velom pokrivenih studentica.

In other words, they would force students to uncover their heads.

Drugim riječima, oni bi prisilili studentice

da otkriju svoje glave.

And I think forcing people to uncover their head

I mislim kako je siliti ljude da otkriju svoju glavu

is as tyrannical as forcing them to cover it.

jednako tiranski kao i siliti ih da je pokriju.

To bi trebala biti odluka građana.

It should be the citizen's decision.

But when I saw that, I said,

Ali kada sam to vidio, rekao sam,

"Maybe the problem is just an authoritarian culture in the region,

"Možda je problem

samo autoritativna kultura u regiji,

and some Muslims have been influenced by that.

i neki od muslimana su bili pod njezinim utjecajem."

Ali ljudi koji razmišljaju na svjetovni način mogu biti pod takvim utjecajem.

But the secular-minded people can be influenced by that.

Maybe it's a problem of the political culture,

Možda je to problem političke kulture,

a mi moramo misliti o

and we have to think about how to change that political culture."

tome kako promijeniti tu političku kulturu.

Now, these are some of the questions I had in mind a few years ago

To su neke od pitanja

kojih sam se dosjetio prije nekoliko godina

when I sat down to write a book.

kada sam sjeo da napišem knjigu.

I said, "Well, I will do research

Rekao sam, "Pa, napravit ću istraživanje

o tome kako je Islam postao ono što je danas,

about how Islam actually came to be what it is today,

i kojim cestama se krenulo

and what roads were taken and what roads could have been taken."

a kojim cestama se moglo krenuti."

Ime knjige je "Islam bez ekstrema: Slučaj muslimana za slobodu."

The name of the book is "Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty."

And as the subtitle suggests,

I kao što podnaslov sugerira,

I looked at Islamic tradition and the history of Islamic thought

promatrao sam islamsku tradiciju i povijest islamske misli

from the perspective of individual liberty,

iz perspektive pojedinačne slobode,

and I tried to find what are the strengths with regard to individual liberty.

i pokušao sam naći snage

u odnosu na individualnu slobodu.

And there are strengths in Islamic tradition.

I postoje snage u islamskoj tradiciji.

Islam je zapravo, kao monoteistična religija,

Islam, actually, as a monotheistic religion,

which defined man as a responsible agent by itself,

koja je definirala čovjeka kao odgovornog agenta samog po sebi,

created the idea of the individual in the Middle East,

stvorio ideju pojedinca na Bliskom Istoku

i spasio je od komunitarizma, kolektivizma

and saved it from the communitarianism, the collectivism of the tribe.

plemena.

You can derive many ideas from that.

Možete derivirati mnogo ideja i toga.

But besides that, I also saw problems within Islamic tradition.

Ali pored toga, isto tako sam vidio probleme unutar islamske tradicije.

But one thing was curious:

ali jedna stvar je bila zanimljiva:

most of those problems turn out to be problems that emerged later,

većina tih problema su problemi koji su se pojavili kasnije,

not from the very divine core of Islam, the Koran,

ne iz same prekrasne srži Islama, Kurana,

but from, again, traditions and mentalities,

već iz, ponovno, tradicija i mentaliteta,

ili interpretacija Kurana

or the interpretations of the Koran that Muslims made in the Middle Ages.

koje su muslimani napravili u srednjem vijeku.

Kuran, na primjer,

The Koran, for example, doesn't condone stoning.

ne oprašta kamenovanje.

There is no punishment for apostasy.

Nema kazne za otpadništvo.

There is no punishment for personal sins like drinking.

Nema kazne za osobna djela poput pijenja.

Te stvari koje čine islamsko pravo,

These things which make Islamic law,

the troubling aspects of Islamic law,

problematične aspekte islamskog prava,

were developed into later interpretations of Islam.

su kasnije razvijeni u kasne interpretacije Islama.

Which means that Muslims can, today,

Što znači kako muslimani mogu, danas,

look at those things and say,

gledati na te stvari i reći,

"Well, the core of our religion is here to stay with us.

"Pa, srž naše religije

ostaje tu s nama.

It's our faith, and we will be loyal to it.

To je naša vjera i mi ćemo joj biti odani."

But we can change how it was interpreted,

Ali možemo promijeniti njezinu interpretaciju,

because it was interpreted according to the time

jer je bila interpretirana prema vremenu i sredini u Srednjem vijeku.

and milieu in the Middle Ages.

Sada živimo u drugačijem svijetu

Now we're living in a different world,

s drugačijim vrijednostima i drugačijim političkim sustavima.

with different values and political systems."

Ta interpretacija je prilično moguća i izvediva.

That interpretation is quite possible and feasible.

Now, if I were the only person thinking that way,

Sada, kada bih ja bio jedina osoba koja razmišlja na taj način,

we would be in trouble.

bili bismo u nevolji.

But that's not the case at all.

Ali to uopće nije slučaj.

Actually, from the 19th century on,

Zapravo, sve od 19. stoljeća pa nadalje,

there's a whole revisionist, reformist -- whatever you call it -- tradition,

postoji cijela revizionistička, reformistička --

kakogod je zvali --

tradicija,

a trend in Islamic thinking.

trend u islamskom razmišljanju.

These were intellectuals or statesmen

A to su bili intelektualci ili državnici

19. i kasnije, 20. stoljeća,

of the 19th century, and later, 20th century,

which looked at Europe, basically,

koji su promatrali Europu u osnovi

and saw that Europe has many things to admire,

i vidjeli kako Europa ima mnogo stvari kojima se može diviti,

like science and technology.

poput znanosti i tehnologije.

But not just that; also democracy, parliament,

Ali ne samo to; isto tako i demokraciju, parlament,

ideju zastupništva,

the idea of representation,

the idea of equal citizenship.

ideju jednakog građanstva.

These Muslim thinkers, intellectuals and statesmen of the 19th century,

Ti muslimanski mislioci i intelektualci i državnici

19. stoljeća kada bi promatrali Europu, vidjeli bi te stvari.

looked at Europe, saw these things, and said,

Rekli su, "Zašto mi nemamo te stvari?"

"Why don't we have these things?"

I pogledali su ponovno u islamsku tradiciju,

And they looked back at Islamic tradition,

i vidjeli su kako postoje problematični aspekti,

and saw that there are problematic aspects,

but they're not the core of the religion, so maybe they can be re-understood,

ali oni nisu srž religije pa bi stoga oni mogli biti ponovno shvaćeni,

a Kuran bi mogao ponovno biti pročitan

and the Koran can be reread in the modern world.

u modernom svijetu.

That trend is generally called Islamic modernism,

Taj trend

je generalno nazvan islamistički modernizam,

and it was advanced by intellectuals and statesmen,

i bio je unaprijeđen od strane intelektualaca i državnika,

not just as an intellectual idea, though,

ne samo kao intelektualna ideja,

but also as a political program.

već i kao politički program.

And that's why, actually, in the 19th century,

I zato je zapravo u 19. stoljeću

the Ottoman Empire, which then covered the whole Middle East,

Otomansko carstvo, koje je tada prekrivalo cijeli Bliski Istok,

napravilo veoma važne reforme --

made very important reforms --

reforms like giving Christians and Jews an equal citizenship status,

reforme poput davanja kršćanima i židovima

jednak građanski status,

prihvaćanje ustava,

accepting a constitution,

accepting a representative parliament,

prihvaćanje zastupničkog parlamenta,

advancing the idea of freedom of religion.

unapređenje ideje slobode religije.

That's why the Ottoman Empire, in its last decades,

I zato se Otomansko carstvo u svojim zadnjim desetljećima

turned into a proto-democracy, a constitutional monarchy,

pretvorilo u proto-demokraciju,

ustavnu monarhiju.

and freedom was a very important political value at the time.

A sloboda je bila veoma važna politička vrednota u to vrijeme.

Similarly, in the Arab world,

Slično, u arapskom svijetu,

there was what the great Arab historian Albert Hourani defines

postojalo je ono što veliki arapski povjesničar Albert Hourani

definira kao Liberalno doba.

as the Liberal Age.

He has a book, "Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age,"

Ima knjigu, "Arapska misao u Liberalnom dobu."

A Liberalno doba, on definira

and the Liberal Age, he defines as 19th century and early 20th century.

kao 19. stoljeće i rano 20. stoljeće.

Prilično značajno, to je bio dominantan trend

Quite notably, this was the dominant trend in the early 20th century

u ranom 20. stoljeću

among Islamic thinkers and statesmen and theologians.

među islamskim misliocima i državnicima i teolozima.

But there is a very curious pattern in the rest of the 20th century,

Ali postoji veoma zanimljiv uzorak

u ostatku 20. stoljeća,

because we see a sharp decline in this Islamic modernist line.

jer vidimo nagli pad

ove islamske modernističke linije.

And in place of that,

A na mjesto toga,

what happens is that Islamism grows as an ideology which is authoritarian,

ono što se događa jest da islamizam raste

kao ideologija koja je autoritativna,

which is quite strident,

koja je prilično oštra,

which is quite anti-Western,

koja je prilično anti-zapadnjačka,

i koja želi oblikovati društvo

and which wants to shape society based on a utopian vision.

zasnovano na utopijskoj viziji.

So Islamism is the problematic idea

Dakle, islamizam je problematična ideja

that really created a lot of problems in the 20th-century Islamic world.

koja je zaista kreirala dosta problema

u islamskom svijetu 20. stoljeća.

And even the very extreme forms of Islamism

I čak su vrlo ekstremni oblici islamizma

led to terrorism in the name of Islam --

vodili do terorizma u ime Islama --

što je zapravo praksa koja je, po mom mišljenju, protiv Islama,

which is actually a practice that I think is against Islam,

but some, obviously, extremists, did not think that way.

ali neki, očito, ekstremisti nisu razmišljali na taj način.

But there is a curious question:

Ali javlja se zanimljivo pitanje:

If Islamic modernism was so popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries,

Ako je islamski modernizam bio toliko popularan

u 19.-om i ranom 20. stoljeću,

why did Islamism become so popular in the rest of the 20th century?

zašto je islamizam postao toliko popularan

u ostatku 20. stoljeća?

A to pitanje, mislim,

And this is a question, I think, which needs to be discussed carefully.

se mora pažljivo raspraviti.

In my book, I went into that question as well.

A u mojoj knjizi, ušao sam i u to pitanje.

And actually, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.

I zapravo ne trebate biti raketni znanstvenik kako bi to razumijeli.

Just look at the political history of the 20th century,

Samo pogledajte političku povijest 20. stoljeća,

i vidite kako su se stvari jako promijenile.

and you see things have changed a lot.

Kontekst se promijenio.

The contexts have changed.

In the 19th century,

U 19. stoljeću,

when Muslims were looking at Europe as an example,

kada su muslimani gledali Europu kao primjer,

they were independent; they were more self-confident.

oni su bili neovisni, oni su imali više samopouzdanja.

In the early 20th century, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire,

Na početku 20. stoljeća, s padom Otomanskog carstva,

the whole Middle East was colonized.

cijeli Bliski Istok je bio koloniziran.

And when you have colonialization, what do you have?

A kada imate kolonizaciju, što imate?

You have anti-colonialization.

Imate anti-kolonizaciju.

So Europe is not just an example now to emulate;

Dakle, Europa nije sada samo primjer koji treba imitirati;

it's an enemy to fight and to resist.

ona je neprijatelj protiv kojeg se treba boriti i kojem se treba oduprijeti.

So there's a very sharp decline in liberal ideas in the Muslim world,

Dakle, dolazi do vrlo naglog pada

liberalnih ideja u muslimanskom svijetu,

a ono što vidite je više obrambeni,

and what you see is more of a defensive, rigid, reactionary strain,

rigidni, reaktivni napor,

which led to Arab socialism, Arab nationalism

koji je vodio do arapskog socijalizma, arapskog nacionalizma

and ultimately to the Islamist ideology.

i naposljetku do islamističke ideologije.

And when the colonial period ended,

A kada je period kolonizacije završio,

what you had in place of that was generally secular dictators,

ono što ste na tom mjestu imali

bili su, općenito, svjetovni diktatori,

koji govore kako su oni država,

which say they're a country,

but did not bring democracy to the country,

ali nisu donijeli demokraciju u državu,

and established their own dictatorship.

već su uspostavili svoju vlastitu diktaturu.

And I think the West, at least some powers in the West,

A mislim kako je zapad, bar neke moći na zapadu,

naročito Sjedinjene Države,

particularly the United States,

made the mistake of supporting those secular dictators,

učinio pogrešku što je podupirao te svjetovne diktatore,

thinking that they were more helpful for their interests.

misleći kako će oni biti više od pomoći za njihove interese.

But the fact that those dictators suppressed democracy in their country

Ali činjenica kako su ti diktatori

potisnuli demokraciju u svojoj zemlji

and suppressed Islamic groups in their country

i potisnuli islamske grupe u svojoj zemlji

actually made the Islamists much more strident.

vodilo je zapravo do toga da islamisti postaju puno oštriji.

Dakle, u 20. stoljeću,

So in the 20th century,

you had this vicious cycle in the Arab world,

imali ste taj začarani krug u arapskom svijetu

where you have a dictatorship suppressing its own people,

gdje diktatura potiskuje svoje vlastite ljude

including the Islamic pious,

uključujući i islamsko pobožništvo,

and they're reacting in reactionary ways.

a oni su reagirali reaktivno.

There was one country, though,

Postoji jedna zemlja

which was able to escape or stay away from that vicious cycle.

koja je uspjela pobjeći ili izostati

iz tog začaranog kruga.

And that's the country where I come from, Turkey.

A to je zemlja iz koje ja dolazim; to je Turska.

Turkey has never been colonized,

Turska nikad nije bila kolonizirana,

pa je ostala kao neovisna nacija nakon pada Otomanskog carstva.

so it remained as an independent nation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

To je jedna stvar koju treba zapamtiti.

That's one thing to remember;

Nisu djelili jednako anti-kolonijalno ushićenje

it did not share the same anti-colonial hype

koje možete pronaći u nekim drugim zemljama u regiji.

that you can find in some other countries in the region.

Secondly, and most importantly,

Drugo, i najvažnije,

Turkey became a democracy

Turska je postala demokracija

earlier than any of the countries we are talking about.

prije nego ijedna zemlja o kojoj pričamo.

In 1950, Turkey had the first free and fair elections,

1950. godine, Turska je imala prve slobodne i pravedne izbore,

koji su okončali više autokratski svjetovni režim,

which ended the more autocratic secular regime,

which was in the beginning of Turkey.

koji je bio početak Turske.

And the pious Muslims in Turkey

A pobožni muslimani u Turskoj

saw that they could change the political system by voting.

vidjeli su kako mogu promijeniti politički sustav glasanjem.

And they realized that democracy is something compatible with Islam,

I shvaćaju kako je demokracija nešto što je kompatibilno s Islamom,

kompatibilno s njihovim vrednotama,

compatible with their values,

and they've been supportive of democracy.

i oni su podupirali demokraciju.

That's an experience

To je iskustvo

that not every other Muslim nation in the Middle East had,

koje nije svaka druga muslimanska nacija na Bliskom Istoku imala

do nedavno.

until very recently.

Secondly, in the past two decades,

Drugo, u zadnja dva desetljeća,

thanks to globalization, thanks to the market economy,

zahvaljujući globalizaciji, zahvaljujući tržišnoj ekonomiji,

thanks to the rise of a middle class,

zahvaljujući usponu srednje klase,

we in Turkey see what I define as a rebirth of Islamic modernism.

mi u Turskoj svjedočimo

onome što ja nazivam preporod islamističkog modernizma.

Now, there's the more urban middle-class pious Muslims

Sada, postoje urbaniji pobožni muslimani srednje klase

koji, ponovno, gledaju svoju tradiciju

who, again, look at their tradition

i vide kako postoje neki problemi u tradiciji.

and see that there are some problems in the tradition,

I oni shvaćaju kako se moraju mijenjati i preispitivati i provoditi reforme.

and understand that they need to be changed and questioned and reformed.

I oni se ugledaju na Europu,

And they look at Europe, and see an example, again, to follow.

i vide primjer, ponovno, koji će slijediti.

They see an example, at least, to take some inspiration from.

Vide primjer, barem, iz kojeg će crpiti inspiraciju.

Zato je EU proces,

That's why the EU process, Turkey's effort to join the EU,

napor Turske da se pridruži EU,

podržan unutar Turske

has been supported inside Turkey by the Islamic pious,

od strane islamističkih pobožnika,

while some secular nationalists were against it.

dok su neke svjetovne nacije bile protiv toga.

Well, that process has been a little bit blurred

Taj proces je bio malo zamagljen

činjenicom kako nisu svi Europljani gostoprimci --

by the fact that not all Europeans are that welcoming,

ali to je za neku drugu diskusiju.

but that's another discussion.

But the pro-EU sentiment in Turkey in the past decade

Ali pro-EU sentiment u Turskoj je u prošlom desetljeću,

has become almost an Islamic cause and supported by the Islamic liberals

umalo postao islamski cilj,

i podržan od islamskih liberala

and the secular liberals as well, of course.

i svjetovnih liberala isto tako, naravno.

And thanks to that,

I zahvaljujući tome,

Turkey has been able to reasonably create a success story

Turska je razumno dobro uspjela stvoriti uspješnu priču

in which Islam and the most pious understandings of Islam

u kojoj Islam i najpobožnija shvaćanja Islama

have become part of the democratic game,

postaju dio demokratske igre,

and even contributes to the democratic and economic advance of the country.

i čak doprinosi demokratskom i ekonomskom

napretku zemlje.

And this has been an inspiring example right now

A to je bio inspirirajući primjer sada

za neke od islamskih pokreta

for some of the Islamic movements

ili za neke zemlje u arapskom svijetu.

or some of the countries in the Arab world.

You must have all seen the Arab Spring,

Svi ste vidjeli arapsko proljeće,

which began in Tunis and in Egypt.

koje je počelo u Tunisu i Egiptu.

Arab masses just revolted against their dictators.

A arapske mase

su se samo pobunile protiv svojih diktatora.

They were asking for democracy; they were asking for freedom.

Oni su tražili demokraciju; oni su tražili slobodu.

I nije se ispostavilo kako je to islamistički bauk

And they did not turn out to be the Islamist boogeyman

that the dictators were always using to justify their regime.

koji su diktatori uvijek koristili

kako bi opravdali svoj režim.

Rekli su kako "mi želimo slobodu, mi želimo demokraciju.

They said, "We want freedom; we want democracy.

We are Muslim believers,

Mi smo muslimanski vjernici,

but we want to be living as free people in free societies."

ali želimo živjeti kao slobodni ljudi u slobodnim društvima."

Naravno, to je dugačak put.

Of course, this is a long road.

Demokracija nije prekonoćno postignuće;

Democracy is not an overnight achievement; it's a process.

to je proces.

Ali to je obećavajuća era

But this is a promising era in the Muslim world.

u muslimanskom svijetu.

I vjerujem kako islamski modernizam

And I believe that the Islamic modernism which began in the 19th century,

koji je započeo u 19. stoljeću,

but which had a setback in the 20th century

ali koji je imao zastoj u 20. stoljeću

zbog političkih poteškoća u Muslimanskom svijetu,

because of the political troubles of the Muslim world,

doživljava preporod.

is having a rebirth.

I mislim kako bi poruka koju treba odnijeti sa sobom iz toga

And I think the takeaway message from that would be that Islam,

bila kako Islam,

despite some of the skeptics in the West,

unatoč nekim skepticima na zapadu,

has the potential in itself

ima potencijal u sebi

to create its own way to democracy, create its own way to liberalism,

da stvori svoj vlastiti put ka demokraciji, stvori svoj vlastiti put ka liberalizmu,

create its own way to freedom.

stvori svoj vlastiti put ka slobodi.

They just should be allowed to work for that.

Jednostavno bi im trebalo biti dozvoljeno da rade za to.

Puno hvala.

Thanks so much.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)