Mustafa Akyol: Faith versus tradition in Islam

120,166 views ใƒป 2011-05-26

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Jina Kim ๊ฒ€ํ† : Jungsoo Kim
๋ช‡ ์ฃผ ์ „์— ์ €๋Š”
00:16
A few weeks ago, I had a chance to go to Saudi Arabia.
0
16656
3651
์‚ฌ์šฐ๋””์•„๋ผ๋น„์•„๋ฅผ ๋ฐฉ๋ฌธํ•  ๊ธฐํšŒ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:20
And the first thing I wanted to do as a Muslim
1
20744
2609
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋กœ์„œ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ œ์ผ ๋จผ์ € ํ•˜๋ ค๋˜ ์ผ์€
00:23
was to go to Mecca and visit the Kaaba,
2
23377
2401
๋ฉ”์นด๋กœ ๊ฐ€์„œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์„ฑ์ง€์ธ ์นด๋ฐ” ์‹ ์ „์„
00:25
the holiest shrine of Islam.
3
25802
1434
๋ฐฉ๋ฌธํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:27
And I did that; I put on my ritualistic dress,
4
27595
2680
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ „ ์‹คํ–‰์— ์˜ฎ๊ฒผ์ฃ . ์˜ˆ๋ฐฐ๋ณต์„ ์ž…๊ณ 
์‹ ์„ฑํ•œ ๋ชจ์Šคํฌ๋กœ ๊ฐ€์„œ
00:30
I went to the holy mosque,
5
30299
1508
00:31
I did my prayers,
6
31831
1679
๊ธฐ๋„๋ฅผ ๋“œ๋ ธ๊ณ 
00:33
I observed all the rituals.
7
33534
1702
์ „์ฒด ์˜ˆ๋ฐฐ ์˜์‹์„ ์ง€์ผœ๋ดค์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํ•œํŽธ์œผ๋ก 
00:36
And meanwhile, besides all the spirituality,
8
36260
3377
๊ทธ ๋ชจ๋“  ์˜์ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค๊ณผ๋Š” ๋ณ„๊ฐœ๋กœ
00:39
there was one mundane detail in the Kaaba
9
39661
2297
๋‹จ ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ์„ธ์†์ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ์ด ์นด๋ฐ” ์‹ ์ „์— ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:41
that was pretty interesting for me:
10
41982
1698
๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ œ๊ฒŒ๋Š” ๊ฝค ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์› ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
00:43
there was no separation of sexes.
11
43704
1759
๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์—” ์„ฑ๋ณ„์˜ ๊ตฌ๋ถ„์ด ์—†์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:45
In other words, men and women were worshiping all together.
12
45949
3287
๋‹ค์‹œ ๋งํ•ด, ๋‚จ์„ฑ๊ณผ ์—ฌ์„ฑ์ด
ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์˜ˆ๋ฐฐ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๋˜ ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์นด๋ฐ” ์‹ ์ „ ์ฃผ๋ณ€์„ ๋”ฐ๋ผ ๋‘ฅ๊ธ€๊ฒŒ ๋„๋Š”
00:50
They were together while doing tawฤf, the circular walk around the Kaaba.
13
50085
4778
ํƒ€์™€ํ”„ ์˜์‹์„ ์น˜๋ฅด๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
00:54
They were together while praying.
14
54887
1593
ํ•จ๊ป˜ ๊ธฐ๋„๋ฅผ ๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:56
And if you wonder why this is interesting at all,
15
56504
3558
์ด ๋ชจ๋“  ์ผ๋“ค์ด ์–ด์งธ์„œ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด์ง€๋ฅผ ๊ถ๊ธˆํ•ด ํ•˜์‹ ๋‹ค๋ฉด
์‚ฌ์šฐ๋””์•„๋ผ๋น„์•„์˜ ์ด๋ฉด์„ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณผ ํ•„์š”๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:00
you have to see the rest of Saudi Arabia,
16
60086
2581
01:02
because this a country which is strictly divided between the sexes.
17
62691
4545
์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ด ๋‚˜๋ผ๋Š”
์—„๊ฒฉํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์„ฑ๋ณ„์„ ๊ตฌ๋ถ„ํ•˜๋Š” ๋‚˜๋ผ์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:07
In other words:
18
67848
1166
๋‹ค์‹œ ๋งํ•ด์„œ,
01:09
as men, you are simply not supposed to be in the same physical space
19
69038
3743
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋‚จ์„ฑ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด ์—ฌ์„ฑ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ์žฅ์†Œ์—๋Š”
์žˆ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€์š”.
01:12
with women.
20
72805
1164
01:13
And I noticed this in a very funny way.
21
73993
1886
์ „ ์ด๊ฑธ ์•„์ฃผ ์žฌ๋ฐŒ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ๋กœ๋กœ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:15
I left the Kaaba to eat something in downtown Mecca.
22
75903
3217
์นด๋ฐ”๋ฅผ ๋– ๋‚˜์„œ
๋ฉ”์นด ์‹œ๋‚ด์—์„œ ๋ญ”๊ฐ€ ๋จน์œผ๋ ค๊ณ 
01:19
I headed to the nearest Burger King restaurant.
23
79668
2438
๊ทผ์ฒ˜ ๋ฒ„๊ฑฐํ‚น ๋ ˆ์Šคํ† ๋ž‘์œผ๋กœ ๋“ค์–ด์„ฐ์„ ๋•Œ์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ์ „
01:22
And I went there -- I noticed that there was a male section,
24
82130
3756
์—ฌ์„ฑ ์ „์šฉ ๊ตฌ์—ญ์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์„ธ์‹ฌํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๊ฒฉ๋ฆฌ๋œ
01:25
which is carefully separated from the female section.
25
85910
2798
๋‚จ์„ฑ ์ „์šฉ ๊ตฌ์—ญ์„ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€์š”.
01:28
I had to pay, order and eat in the male section.
26
88732
2611
์ „ ์ฃผ๋ฌธ๊ณผ ๊ณ„์‚ฐ์„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ทธ ๋‚จ์„ฑ ์ „์šฉ ๊ตฌ์—ญ์—์„œ ๋จน์–ด์•ผ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:31
"It's funny," I said to myself,
27
91946
1794
"์ •๋ง ์šฐ์Šต๊ตฐ," ์ „ ์Šค์Šค๋กœ์—๊ฒŒ ๋งํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:33
"You can mingle with the opposite sex at the holy Kaaba,
28
93764
2804
"์‹ ์„ฑํ•œ ์นด๋ฐ” ์‹ ์ „์—์„œ๋Š” ์„œ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์„ฑ๋ณ„๊ณผ๋„ ์–ด์šธ๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ง€๋งŒ,
01:36
but not at the Burger King?"
29
96592
1644
๋ฒ„๊ฑฐํ‚น์—์„œ๋Š” ์•ˆ ๋œ๋‹ค๋‹ˆ."
01:38
(Laughter)
30
98260
1030
๊ฝค ์—ญ์„ค์ ์ด์ฃ .
01:39
Quite, quite ironic.
31
99314
1702
์—ญ์„ค์ ์ด๋ฉด์„œ๋„ ๊ฝค๋‚˜ ์‹œ์‚ฌ์ ์ธ๋ฐ์š”,
01:41
Ironic, and it's also, I think, quite telling,
32
101040
2267
01:43
because the Kaaba and the rituals around it
33
103331
3580
์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์นด๋ฐ” ์‹ ์ „๊ณผ ๊ทธ ์ฃผ๋ณ€์˜ ์˜ˆ๋ฐฐ ์˜์‹์€
01:46
are relics from the earliest phase of Islam,
34
106935
2889
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ดˆ๊ธฐ ์œ ๋ฌผ ์ฆ‰,
01:49
that of prophet Muhammad.
35
109848
1388
์„ ์ง€์ž ๋งˆํ˜ธ๋ฉ”ํŠธ(Muhammad)์˜ ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:51
And if there was a big emphasis at the time to separate men from women,
36
111678
3851
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ ๋‹น์‹œ์— ์—ฌ์„ฑ๊ณผ ๋‚จ์„ฑ์„ ๊ฒฉ๋ฆฌํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ์—
ํฐ ์ฃผ์•ˆ์ ์„ ๋‘๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
01:55
the rituals around the Kaaba could have been designed accordingly.
37
115553
3118
์นด๋ฐ” ์‹ ์ „์˜ ์˜ˆ๋ฐฐ ์˜์‹์ด ๊ทธ์— ๋”ฐ๋ผ ๊ณ ์•ˆ๋˜์—ˆ์„ ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
01:58
But apparently, that was not an issue at the time.
38
118695
2368
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ช…๋ฐฑํžˆ ๊ทธ๋•Œ์—๋Š” ์„ฑ๋ณ„์˜ ๊ตฌ๋ณ„์ด ํ™”๋‘๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—ˆ์œผ๋ฏ€๋กœ
์˜ˆ๋ฐฐ ์˜์‹์ด ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ˜•ํƒœ๊ฐ€ ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:01
So the rituals came that way.
39
121087
1401
02:02
This is also, I think, confirmed by the fact
40
122512
2528
์ด๋Š” ๋˜ํ•œ ์‚ฌํšŒ๋ฅผ ๋‘˜๋กœ ๋‚˜๋ˆ„๋Š”
์—ฌ์„ฑ์˜ ๊ฒฉ๋ฆฌ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
02:05
that the seclusion of women in creating a divided society
41
125064
3653
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํ•ต์‹ฌ์ด์ž
02:08
is something that you also do not find in the Koran --
42
128741
3496
์ €๋ฅผ ๋น„๋กฏํ•œ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ๋ฏฟ๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์‹ ์„ฑ ๊ทผ์›์ธ
02:12
the very core of Islam, the divine core of Islam --
43
132261
3062
์ฝ”๋ž€์—์„œ๋„ ์ฐพ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š”
02:15
that all Muslims, equally myself, believe.
44
135347
2413
๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ๋„ ํ™•์ธ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋˜ํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ๊ธฐ์›์ธ ์ฝ”๋ž€์—์„œ
02:19
And I think it's not an accident
45
139054
1671
02:20
that you don't find this idea in the very origin of Islam,
46
140749
3487
์ด ๊ฐœ๋…์„ ์ฐพ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
์šฐ์—ฐ์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ „ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:24
because many scholars who study the history of Islamic thought --
47
144639
3669
์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์—ญ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ์—ฐ๊ตฌํ•ด์˜จ ํ•™์ž๋“ค์€
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„ ํ•™์ž ํ˜น์€ ์„œ๋ฐฉ์˜ ํ•™์ž์ด๋“ ๊ฐ„์—
02:28
Muslim scholars or Westerners --
48
148332
1920
์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋‚จ์„ฑ๊ณผ ์—ฌ์„ฑ์„
02:30
think that, actually, the practice of dividing men and women physically
49
150276
4374
๋ฌผ๋ฆฌ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๊ฒฉ๋ฆฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ด€์Šต์€
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์ดํ›„ ๋ฐœ๋‹ฌ ๊ณผ์ •์—์„œ
02:34
came as a later development in Islam,
50
154674
3135
์ƒ๊ฒจ๋‚ฌ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:37
as Muslims adopted some preexisting cultures
51
157833
3031
๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€
์ผ๋ถ€ ์„ ์žฌํ•˜๋˜ ์ค‘๋™์˜ ๋ฌธํ™”์™€ ์ „ํ†ต์„ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์—ฌ์„œ์š”.
02:40
and traditions of the Middle East.
52
160888
1686
02:42
Seclusion of women was actually a Byzantine and Persian practice,
53
162598
4716
์—ฌ์„ฑ์„ ๊ฒฉ๋ฆฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ด€์Šต์€ ์‚ฌ์‹ค
๋น„์ž”ํ‹ด๊ณผ ํŽ˜๋ฅด์‹œ์˜ ๊ฒƒ์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ด๊ณ 
02:47
and Muslims adopted it and made it a part of their religion.
54
167338
3739
๊ทธ๋“ค ์ข…๊ต์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“ค ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€์š”.
02:51
Actually, this is just one example of a much larger phenomenon.
55
171101
4200
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ด๋Š” ํ›จ์”ฌ ๊ด‘๋ฒ”์œ„ํ•œ ํ˜„์ƒ์˜
ํ•œ ์˜ˆ์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:55
What we call today Islamic law, and especially Islamic culture --
56
175695
3625
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ˜„์žฌ์˜ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์œจ๋ฒ•์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ, ๊ตฌ์ฒด์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ๋ฌธํ™”๋Š”
์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์ข…๋ฅ˜์˜ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ๋ฌธํ™”๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค๋งŒ,
02:59
and there are many Islamic cultures, actually;
57
179344
2187
์‚ฌ์šฐ๋””์•„๋ผ๋น„์•„์˜ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ œ ๊ณ ํ–ฅ์ธ
03:01
the one in Saudi Arabia is much different
58
181555
1987
์ด์Šคํƒ„๋ถˆ์ด๋‚˜ ํ„ฐํ‚ค์—์„œ์™€๋Š” ์ƒ๋‹นํžˆ ๋‹ค๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:03
from where I come from in Istanbul or Turkey.
59
183566
2245
03:05
But still, if you're going to speak about a Muslim culture,
60
185835
3273
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ๋ฌธํ™”์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์–˜๊ธฐํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋ผ๋ฉด,
03:09
this has a core: the divine message which began the religion.
61
189132
4343
์—ฌ๊ธฐ์—” ์ข…๊ต๊ฐ€ ๋น„๋กฏ๋œ ํ•ต์‹ฌ์ ์ด๊ณ  ์‹ ์„ฑํ•œ
๋ฉ”์‹œ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:13
But then many traditions, perceptions, practices were added on top of it.
62
193499
5039
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฌด์ˆ˜ํ•œ ์ „ํ†ต๊ณผ ์ดํ•ด,
๋งŽ์€ ๊ด€์Šต์ด ๊ทธ ์œ„์— ์ถ”๊ฐ€๋˜์—ˆ์ฃ .
03:18
And these were traditions of the Middle East medieval traditions.
63
198562
3468
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ค‘๋™์˜ ์ „ํ†ต ์ฆ‰, ์ค‘์„ธ์˜ ์ „ํ†ต์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:22
There are two important messages, or two lessons,
64
202609
3593
์—ฌ๊ธฐ์—” ์ง„์‹ค์„ ๋ฐํ˜€๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋ฉ”์‹œ์ง€
ํ˜น์€ ๊ตํ›ˆ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:26
to take from that reality.
65
206226
2146
03:28
First of all, Muslims --
66
208892
1522
์šฐ์„  ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„ ์ฆ‰,
03:30
pious, conservative, believing Muslims who want to be loyal to their religion --
67
210438
3882
์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ์ข…๊ต์— ์ถฉ์‹คํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ๊ฒฝ๊ฑดํ•˜๊ณ  ๋ณด์ˆ˜์ ์ด๋ฉฐ ๋…์‹คํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋Š”
๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์‹ ์„ฑํ•œ ์ž„๋ฌด๋ผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
03:34
should not cling onto everything in their culture,
68
214344
2430
03:36
thinking that that's divinely mandated.
69
216798
2208
๋ฌธํ™”์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ ์ „๋ถ€์— ์ง‘์ฐฉํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ์•ˆ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์•„๋งˆ๋„ ์ผ๋ถ€๋Š” ์ข‹์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ ์ „ํ†ต์ผ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ
03:39
Maybe some things are bad traditions and they need to be changed.
70
219030
3206
๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ๋ฐ”๋€” ํ•„์š”๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:42
On the other hand, the Westerners who look at Islamic culture
71
222260
4051
ํ•œํŽธ, ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ๋ฌธํ™”๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ณด๊ณ 
์ผ๋ถ€ ๋ฌธ์ œ์˜ ์†Œ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ธก๋ฉด์„
03:46
and see some troubling aspects
72
226335
2166
๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•œ ์„œ์–‘์ธ๋“ค์€
03:48
should not readily conclude that this is what Islam ordains.
73
228525
3190
์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋ฅผ ๊ทœ์ • ์ง“๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ ์„ฑ๊ธ‰ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์ง€์–ด์„œ๋Š” ์•ˆ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:51
Maybe it's a Middle Eastern culture that became confused with Islam.
74
231739
3788
์•„๋งˆ๋„ ๊ทธ๊ฑด ์ค‘๋™์˜ ๋ฌธํ™”๊ฐ€
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๋ฌธํ™”์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ํ˜ผ๋™๋œ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์ผ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์—ฌ์„ฑ ํ• ๋ก€๋ผ๋Š” ๊ด€์Šต์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:56
There is a practice called female circumcision.
75
236205
2638
๋„ˆ๋ฌด๋‚˜ ๋”์ฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์†Œ๋ฆ„ ๋ผ์น˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€์š”.
03:59
It's something terrible, horrible.
76
239315
2042
04:01
It is basically an operation to deprive women of sexual pleasure.
77
241381
3849
์ด๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์—ฌ์„ฑ์˜ ์„ฑ์  ์พŒ๋ฝ์„
๋ฐ•ํƒˆํ•˜๋Š” ์ˆ˜์ˆ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:06
And Westerners --
78
246072
1820
๋˜ํ•œ ์„œ์–‘์ธ, ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์ธ ๋˜๋Š” ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ธ ๋“ฑ
04:07
Europeans or Americans -- who didn't know about this before,
79
247916
3320
์ด ๊ด€์Šต์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์ „์— ๋ชฐ๋ž๋˜ ์ด๋“ค์€
04:11
[saw] this practice
80
251260
1976
์ด ๊ด€์Šต์„
04:13
within some of the Muslim communities who migrated from North Africa.
81
253260
4292
๋ถ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด์—์„œ ์ด์ฃผํ•ด์˜จ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ณต๋™์ฒด์˜
์ผ๋ถ€๋กœ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:17
And they've thought,
82
257576
1175
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ "์ด ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ๋”์ฐํ•œ ์ข…๊ต์ธ๊ฐ€,
04:18
"Oh, what a horrible religion that is, which ordains something like that."
83
258775
4110
๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ง“์„ ํ•˜๊ฒŒ๋” ์ •ํ•ด ๋†“๋‹ค๋‹ˆ"ํ•˜๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์—ฌ์„ฑ ํ• ๋ก€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์•Œ์•„๋ณด๋ฉด
04:23
But when you look at female circumcision,
84
263579
2051
๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์™€๋Š” ์•„๋ฌด ๊ด€๊ณ„ ์—†๋Š”
04:25
you see that it has nothing to do with Islam;
85
265654
2167
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์ถœํ˜„๋ณด๋‹ค ์•ž์„ 
04:27
it's just a North African practice which predates Islam.
86
267845
2682
๋ถ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด์˜ ๊ด€์Šต์ž„์„ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:30
It was there for thousands of years.
87
270551
1813
์ด ๊ด€์Šต์€ ์ˆ˜์ฒœ๋…„ ์ „๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:32
And, quite tellingly, some Muslims do practice it --
88
272388
3614
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ถ„๋ช… ์ผ๋ถ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ์ด ๊ด€์Šต์„ ์‹œํ–‰ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ณณ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ ๋ถ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด์˜ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€์š”.
04:36
the Muslims in North Africa, not in other places.
89
276026
2445
04:38
But also the non-Muslim communities of North Africa --
90
278495
3646
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ๋ถ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด์˜ ๋น„ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ณต๋™์ฒด์—์„œ๋„
์ •๋ น์‹ ์•™์ž, ์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ธฐ๋…๊ต๋„์™€
04:42
the animists, some Christians and even a Jewish tribe in North Africa --
91
282165
4001
๋ถ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด์˜ ํ•œ ์œ ๋Œ€๊ต ๋ถ€์กฑ์—์„œ๋„
์—ฌ์„ฑ ํ• ๋ก€ ๊ด€์Šต์„ ๊ฐ–๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์•Œ๋ ค์ ธ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:46
are known to practice female circumcision.
92
286190
2268
04:48
So what might look like a problem within Islamic faith
93
288970
4636
๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์‹ ์•™ ๋‚ด์˜
๋ฌธ์ œ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
04:53
might turn out to be a tradition that Muslims have subscribed to.
94
293630
3606
์‹ค์€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ์ฐฌ์„ฑํ•ด์˜จ
์ „ํ†ต์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐํ˜€์งˆ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:57
The same thing can be said for honor killings,
95
297735
2222
๋ช…์˜ˆ ์‚ด์ธ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋„ ๊ฐ™์€ ์–˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
04:59
which is a recurrent theme in the Western media --
96
299981
2548
๋ช…์˜ˆ ์‚ด์ธ์€ ์„œ๋ฐฉ ๋งค์ฒด์—์„œ ๋ฐ˜๋ณต๋˜๋Š” ์ฃผ์ œ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ค„์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
05:02
and which is, of course, a horrible tradition.
97
302553
2683
๋งํ•  ๊ฒƒ๋„ ์—†์ด ๋”์งํ•œ ์ „ํ†ต์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:05
And we see, truly, in some Muslim communities, that tradition.
98
305260
3419
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ผ๋ถ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์‚ฌํšŒ์—์„œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ „ํ†ต์ด ๋ชฉ๊ฒฉ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ธฐ๋…๊ต ๊ณต๋™์ฒด, ์œ ๋Œ€๊ต ๊ณต๋™์ฒด์™€ ๊ฐ™์€
05:09
But in the non-Muslim communities of the Middle East,
99
309074
2910
๋น„ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์ง‘๋‹จ์—์„œ๋„
05:12
such as some Christian communities, Eastern communities,
100
312008
2650
๊ฐ™์€ ๊ด€์Šต์„ ๋ชฉ๊ฒฉํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:14
you see the same practice.
101
314682
1285
05:15
We had a tragic case of an honor killing
102
315991
2635
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋„ ๋ถˆ๊ณผ ๋ช‡ ๋‹ฌ ์ „์—
ํ„ฐํ‚ค์˜ ์•„๋ฅด๋ฉ”๋‹ˆ์•„์ธ ๊ณต๋™์ฒด ๋‚ด์—์„œ
05:18
within Turkey's Armenian community just a few months ago.
103
318650
3147
๋ช…์˜ˆ ์‚ด์ธ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๋น„๊ทน์  ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์„ ๊ฒช์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:21
Now, these are things about general culture,
104
321821
2123
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์ธ ๋ฌธํ™”์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€๋งŒ
05:23
but I'm also very much interested in political culture
105
323968
2850
์ „ ์ •์น˜์ ์ธ ๋ฌธํ™”์—๋„ ํฐ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ–๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:26
and whether liberty and democracy is appreciated,
106
326842
2817
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ž์œ ์™€ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ์ธ์ •๋ฐ›๋Š” ์‚ฌํšŒ์ด๋“ 
05:29
or whether there's an authoritarian political culture
107
329683
2772
๋…์žฌ์ฃผ์˜์  ์ •์น˜ ๋ฌธํ™”๊ฐ€ ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋“ ์ง€ ๊ฐ„์—
05:32
in which the state is supposed to impose things on the citizens.
108
332479
3221
๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๊ตญ๋ฏผ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ๊ฐ•์ œํ•˜๊ฒŒ๋” ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ค‘๋™์˜ ๋Œ€๋‹ค์ˆ˜ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์šด๋™์ด
05:36
And it is no secret
109
336183
1708
05:37
that many Islamic movements in the Middle East
110
337915
2527
๋…์žฌ์ฃผ์˜์  ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์„ ๋„๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
๋น„๋ฐ€์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉฐ,
05:40
tend to be authoritarian,
111
340466
1277
05:41
and some of the so-called "Islamic regimes,"
112
341767
2931
์‚ฌ์šฐ๋””์•„๋ผ๋น„์•„, ์ด๋ž€๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€
05:44
such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and the worst case, the Taliban in Afghanistan,
113
344722
4897
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋‚˜์œ ์˜ˆ๋กœ ์•„ํ”„๊ฐ€๋‹ˆ์Šคํƒ„์˜ ํƒˆ๋ ˆ๋ฐ˜๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€
์†Œ์œ„ "์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์ •๊ถŒ" ์ค‘ ์ผ๋ถ€๋Š”
05:49
they are pretty authoritarian -- no doubt about that.
114
349643
2600
์˜์‹ฌํ•  ์—ฌ์ง€ ์—†์ด ๋งค์šฐ ๋…์žฌ์ ์ธ ์„ฑ๊ฒฉ์„ ์ง€๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด, ์‚ฌ์šฐ๋””์•„๋ผ๋น„์•„์—์„œ๋Š”
05:52
For example, in Saudi Arabia,
115
352267
1426
05:53
there is a phenomenon called the religious police.
116
353717
2519
์ข…๊ต ๊ฒฝ์ฐฐ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ํ˜„์ƒ์ด ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:56
And the religious police imposes the supposed Islamic way of life
117
356260
3976
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ์ข…๊ต ๊ฒฝ์ฐฐ์€
๋ชจ๋“  ๊ตญ๋ฏผ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์˜ˆ๊ฒฌ๋œ
06:00
on every citizen, by force --
118
360260
2109
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์‹ ์ƒํ™œ ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ๊ฐ•์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:02
like, women are forced to cover their heads --
119
362393
2984
์—ฌ์„ฑ์ด ํžˆ์žก์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์‹ ๋จธ๋ฆฌ ๊ฐ€๋ฆฌ๊ฐœ๋กœ
๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ๋จธ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋ฎ์–ด์“ฐ๋„๋ก ๊ฐ•์š” ๋ฐ›๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ง์ด์ง€์š”.
06:05
wear the hijab, the Islamic head cover.
120
365401
2788
์ด๋Š” ๋งค์šฐ ๊ถŒ์œ„์ ์ด๋ฉฐ,
06:09
Now that is pretty authoritarian,
121
369119
1604
๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งค์šฐ ๋น„ํŒํ•˜๋Š” ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:10
and that's something I'm very much critical of.
122
370747
2282
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ฐ™์€ ์ง€์—ญ์—์„œ๋„
06:13
But when I realized that the non-Muslim,
123
373879
3586
๋น„ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋‚˜
06:17
or the non-Islamic-minded actors in the same geography
124
377489
3619
๋น„ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์  ์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ํ–‰๋™ํ•˜๋Š” ์ด๋“ค์ด
๋•Œ๋กœ๋Š” ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„์™€ ๋น„์Šทํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ–‰๋™ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๊นจ๋‹ฌ์•˜์„ ๋•Œ
06:21
sometimes behaved similarly,
125
381132
1701
06:22
I realized that the problem maybe lies
126
382857
2002
์ „ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š” ์•„๋งˆ๋„ ๋‹จ์ง€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋งŒ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ
06:24
in the political culture of the whole region, not just Islam.
127
384883
2882
๊ทธ ์ง€์—ญ ์ „์ฒด์˜ ์ •์น˜ ๋ฌธํ™”์— ์žˆ์„ ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑธ ๊นจ๋‹ฌ์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:27
Let me give you an example: in Turkey, where I come from,
128
387789
2717
์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ํ•˜๋‚˜ ๋“ค์–ด๋“œ๋ฆฌ์ฃ . ์ œ ๋ชจ๊ตญ์ธ ํ„ฐํ‚ค๋Š”
06:30
which is a very hyper-secular republic,
129
390530
1976
์•„์ฃผ ์ตœ๊ทผ๊นŒ์ง€๋„ ์ง€๊ทนํžˆ ๋น„์ข…๊ต์ ์ธ
06:32
until very recently, we used to have what I call "secularism police,"
130
392937
5236
๊ณตํ™”๊ตญ์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋‚˜๋ผ์—” ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋น„์ข…๊ต์ฃผ์˜ ๊ฒฝ์ฐฐ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ถ€๋ฅด๋Š”
๋Œ€ํ•™์—์„œ ํžˆ์žก์„ ์“ด ํ•™์ƒ๋“ค์„ ๋‹จ์†ํ•˜๋Š”
06:38
which would guard the universities against veiled students.
131
398197
4039
๊ฐ์‹œ์ธ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:42
In other words, they would force students to uncover their heads.
132
402979
4509
๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ํ•™์ƒ๋“ค์ด
๋จธ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋‚ด๋†“๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋‹ˆ๋„๋ก ๊ฐ•์š”ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:47
And I think forcing people to uncover their head
133
407512
2328
์ „ ํ•™์ƒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๋จธ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋‚ด๋†“๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋‹ˆ๋„๋ก ๊ฐ•์ œํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
06:49
is as tyrannical as forcing them to cover it.
134
409864
3115
๋จธ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€๋ฆฌ๋„๋ก ๊ฐ•์ œํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋ณ„๋ฐ˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅผ ๊ฒŒ ์—†๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๊ฑด ์‹œ๋ฏผ๋“ค ์ž์‹ ์ด ๊ฒฐ์ •ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ๋ฌธ์ œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:53
It should be the citizen's decision.
135
413003
1720
06:54
But when I saw that, I said,
136
414747
1659
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ๊ทธ ๋ชจ์Šต์„ ๋ณด๊ณ , ์ „
06:56
"Maybe the problem is just an authoritarian culture in the region,
137
416430
3806
"์•„๋งˆ๋„ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š”
๋‹จ์ง€ ๊ทธ ์ง€์—ญ์˜ ๋…์žฌ์ฃผ์˜์  ๋ฌธํ™”์ผ ๋ฟ์ด๊ณ 
07:00
and some Muslims have been influenced by that.
138
420260
2852
์ผ๋ถ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฐ›์•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ ."๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์„ธ์†์ ์ธ ์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๋„ ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฐ›์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:03
But the secular-minded people can be influenced by that.
139
423136
2655
07:05
Maybe it's a problem of the political culture,
140
425815
2184
์ด๋Š” ์•„๋งˆ๋„ ์ •์น˜์  ๋ฌธํ™”์˜ ๋ฌธ์ œ์ผ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ,
์šฐ๋ฆฐ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ •์น˜์  ๋ฌธํ™”๋ฅผ
07:08
and we have to think about how to change that political culture."
141
428023
3460
์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ๊ฒƒ์ธ๊ฐ€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๊ณ ๋ฏผํ•ด ๋ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:11
Now, these are some of the questions I had in mind a few years ago
142
431916
3823
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ์ˆ˜ ๋…„ ์ „
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์„ ๋‚ด์–ด ์ฑ…์„ ์“ฐ๋ ค๊ณ  ํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ
07:15
when I sat down to write a book.
143
435763
1704
๋งˆ์Œ ์†์— ํ’ˆ์€ ์งˆ๋ฌธ๋“ค ์ค‘ ์ผ๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:17
I said, "Well, I will do research
144
437967
2153
์ „, ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์„œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๊ฐ€
์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚ ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋ชจ์Šต์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐ”๋€Œ์—ˆ๋Š”์ง€,
07:20
about how Islam actually came to be what it is today,
145
440144
4985
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์–ด๋–ค ๊ธธ์„ ํƒํ•ด ์™”์œผ๋ฉฐ
07:25
and what roads were taken and what roads could have been taken."
146
445153
3295
์–ด๋–ค ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์œผ๋กœ ๋‚˜์•„๊ฐ”์–ด์•ผ ํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์—ฐ๊ตฌํ•ด ๋ด์•ผ๊ฒ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๊ฒฐ์‹ฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ฑ…์˜ ์ œ๋ชฉ์€ "๊ทน๋‹จ์ ์ด์ง€ ์•Š์€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต: ์ž์œ ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„์˜ ์‚ฌ๋ก€"์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:29
The name of the book is "Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty."
147
449127
4109
07:33
And as the subtitle suggests,
148
453260
2459
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ถ€์ œ์—์„œ ์ œ์‹œํ•œ ๋Œ€๋กœ
07:35
I looked at Islamic tradition and the history of Islamic thought
149
455743
3025
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์ „ํ†ต ๋ฐ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์‚ฌ์ƒ์˜ ์—ญ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ
07:38
from the perspective of individual liberty,
150
458792
2078
๊ฐœ์ธ์˜ ์ž์œ ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ด€์ ์—์„œ ๋“ค์—ฌ๋‹ค ๋ณด์•˜๊ณ ,
07:40
and I tried to find what are the strengths with regard to individual liberty.
151
460894
3966
๊ฐœ์ธ์˜ ์ž์œ ์™€ ๊ด€๋ จํ•˜์—ฌ
๊ฐ•์ ์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋ณด๋ ค ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:44
And there are strengths in Islamic tradition.
152
464884
2102
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์ „ํ†ต์—๋Š” ๊ฐ•์ ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋Š” ์ผ์‹ ๊ต๋กœ์„œ,
07:47
Islam, actually, as a monotheistic religion,
153
467010
2313
07:49
which defined man as a responsible agent by itself,
154
469347
4092
์ธ๊ฐ„์„ ์ข…๊ต์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ฑ…์ž„ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋Œ€๋ฆฌ์ธ์œผ๋กœ ์ง€์ •ํ–ˆ๊ณ ,
07:53
created the idea of the individual in the Middle East,
155
473463
2613
์ค‘๋™์—์„  ๊ฐœ์ธ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฐœ๋…์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด๋ƒˆ์œผ๋ฉฐ
์ง‘๋‹จ์˜ ์ง‘์‚ฐ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ์ผ์ปซ๋Š” ๊ณต์‚ฐ์‚ฌํšŒ์ฃผ์˜๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
07:56
and saved it from the communitarianism, the collectivism of the tribe.
156
476100
4355
๊ฐœ์ธ์„ ๊ตฌ์›ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:00
You can derive many ideas from that.
157
480479
1836
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์‚ฌ์ƒ์„ ์ด๋Œ์–ด๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:02
But besides that, I also saw problems within Islamic tradition.
158
482339
3145
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ํ•œํŽธ์œผ๋กœ ์ „, ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์ „ํ†ต ๋‚ด์˜ ๋ฌธ์ œ์ ๋“ค๋„ ๋ณด์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:05
But one thing was curious:
159
485865
1507
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ์‚ฌ์‹ค์€,
08:07
most of those problems turn out to be problems that emerged later,
160
487396
3407
๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋“ค์ด ๋‚˜์ค‘์—
08:10
not from the very divine core of Islam, the Koran,
161
490827
3069
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์‹ ์„ฑ ๊ทผ์›์ธ ์ฝ”๋ž€์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋น„๋กฏ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
08:13
but from, again, traditions and mentalities,
162
493920
3165
์ค‘์„ธ ์‹œ๋Œ€์— ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„์— ์˜ํ•ด ํ–‰ํ•ด์ง„
์ „ํ†ต, ์‚ฌ๊ณ  ๋ฐฉ์‹ ํ˜น์€ ์ฝ”๋ž€์˜ ํ•ด์„์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
08:17
or the interpretations of the Koran that Muslims made in the Middle Ages.
163
497109
3947
๋น„๋กฏ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ž„์ด ๋ฐํ˜€์กŒ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด, ์ฝ”๋ž€์—์„œ๋Š”
08:21
The Koran, for example, doesn't condone stoning.
164
501484
2526
๋Œ์„ ๋˜์ ธ ์ฃฝ์ด๋Š” ์ผ์„ ๋ฌต๊ณผํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:24
There is no punishment for apostasy.
165
504034
1976
๋ฐฐ๊ต์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ฒ˜๋ฒŒ์ด ์—†์œผ๋ฉฐ,
08:26
There is no punishment for personal sins like drinking.
166
506398
3058
์Œ์ฃผ์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฐœ์ธ์ ์ธ ์‚ฌ์•ˆ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ฒ˜๋ฒŒ๋„ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์œจ๋ฒ•์„ ํ˜•์„ฑํ•˜๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์‚ฌ์‹ค๋“ค
08:30
These things which make Islamic law,
167
510027
3359
08:33
the troubling aspects of Islamic law,
168
513410
2804
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์œจ๋ฒ•์˜ ๋ฌธ์ œ์  ์ธก๋ฉด์€
08:36
were developed into later interpretations of Islam.
169
516238
3096
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋ฅผ ํ•ด์„ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ณผ์ •์—์„œ ๋‚˜์ค‘์— ์ƒ๊ฒจ๋‚œ ๊ฒƒ์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:39
Which means that Muslims can, today,
170
519358
2087
๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚ ์˜ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋Š”
08:41
look at those things and say,
171
521469
1746
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์‚ฌ์‹ค๋“ค์„ ์ง์‹œํ•˜๊ณ 
08:43
"Well, the core of our religion is here to stay with us.
172
523239
4303
"์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์ข…๊ต์˜ ๊ทผ์›์€
์—ฌ๊ธฐ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๊ณ์— ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
08:47
It's our faith, and we will be loyal to it.
173
527566
2070
๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์‹ ์•™์ด๋ฉฐ ๋ฏฟ์Œ์„ ๊ฐ€์ ธ์•ผ ๊ฒ ๊ตฐ."ํ•˜๊ณ  ๋งํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:49
But we can change how it was interpreted,
174
529660
1976
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ฝ”๋ž€์ด ํ•ด์„๋˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ”๋ณผ ์ˆ˜๋Š” ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:51
because it was interpreted according to the time
175
531660
2264
์ด๋Š” ์ฝ”๋ž€์ด ์ค‘์„ธ์˜ ์‹œ๊ฐ„๊ณผ ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์— ๋”ฐ๋ผ ํ•ด์„๋˜์—ˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:53
and milieu in the Middle Ages.
176
533948
1434
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ง€๊ธˆ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ฐ€์น˜์™€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ •์น˜ ์ฒด๊ณ„๋ฅผ ์ง€๋‹Œ
08:55
Now we're living in a different world,
177
535406
1857
์ „ํ˜€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์„ธ์ƒ์— ์‚ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:57
with different values and political systems."
178
537287
2200
์ด ์‹œ๋Œ€์˜ ํ•ด์„์€ ์ƒ๋‹นํžˆ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ผ๋งŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:59
That interpretation is quite possible and feasible.
179
539511
2428
09:02
Now, if I were the only person thinking that way,
180
542458
3507
๋งŒ์ผ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ์ € ํ˜ผ์ž ๋ฟ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด
09:05
we would be in trouble.
181
545989
1268
์šฐ๋ฆฐ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ๊ฒช๊ฒŒ ๋˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
09:08
But that's not the case at all.
182
548326
1878
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:10
Actually, from the 19th century on,
183
550887
2907
์‚ฌ์‹ค 19์„ธ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ๋„๋ž˜ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
09:13
there's a whole revisionist, reformist -- whatever you call it -- tradition,
184
553818
5958
์ „ํ†ต ์ฆ‰, ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์‚ฌ์ƒ์˜ ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
์™„์ „ํ•œ ์ˆ˜์ •๋ก ์ž, ๊ฐœํ˜์ฃผ์˜์ž
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋ญ๋ผ ์นญํ•˜๋“ 
09:19
a trend in Islamic thinking.
185
559800
2429
๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ด๋“ค์ด ๋“ฑ์žฅํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:22
These were intellectuals or statesmen
186
562253
2339
์ด๋“ค์€ 19์„ธ๊ธฐ ๋ฐ ์ดํ›„ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ์˜
์ง€์‹์ธ ํ˜น์€ ์ •์น˜๊ฐ€์˜€์œผ๋ฉฐ,
09:25
of the 19th century, and later, 20th century,
187
565100
2536
09:27
which looked at Europe, basically,
188
567660
1774
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์„ ์ง์‹œํ–ˆ๊ณ 
09:29
and saw that Europe has many things to admire,
189
569458
2393
๊ณผํ•™์ด๋‚˜ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์ด ๋ณด์œ ํ•œ
09:31
like science and technology.
190
571875
1489
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ๋™๊ฒฝํ•  ๋งŒํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ์ฃผ๋ชฉํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:33
But not just that; also democracy, parliament,
191
573388
2816
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ ๋ฟ๋งŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜, ์˜ํšŒ,
๋Œ€์˜๊ถŒ์˜ ๊ฐœ๋…,
09:36
the idea of representation,
192
576228
1604
09:37
the idea of equal citizenship.
193
577856
1780
๋™๋“ฑํ•œ ์‹œ๋ฏผ๊ถŒ์˜ ๊ฐœ๋…๋„์š”.
09:39
These Muslim thinkers, intellectuals and statesmen of the 19th century,
194
579660
4857
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ 19์„ธ๊ธฐ์˜ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์„ ๋ชฉ๊ฒฉํ•œ
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„ ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€์™€ ์ง€์‹์ธ, ์ •์น˜๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ์ฃผ๋ชฉํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:44
looked at Europe, saw these things, and said,
195
584541
2146
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ "์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋„ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์—ฌ ๋ณด๋ฉด ์–ด๋–จ๊นŒ? ๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
09:46
"Why don't we have these things?"
196
586711
1589
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์ „ํ†ต์„ ๋’ค๋Œ์•„๋ณด๊ณ ,
09:48
And they looked back at Islamic tradition,
197
588324
2017
๋ฌธ์ œ์  ์ธก๋ฉด์ด ์žˆ์Œ์„ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:50
and saw that there are problematic aspects,
198
590365
2412
09:52
but they're not the core of the religion, so maybe they can be re-understood,
199
592801
3749
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ๊ทผ์›์  ์‚ฌ์ƒ์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—ˆ์œผ๋ฏ€๋กœ, ์ด๋ฅผ ์žฌํ•ด์„ํ•ด ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
์ฝ”๋ž€์€ ๊ทผ๋Œ€์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ๊ด€์ ์œผ๋กœ
09:56
and the Koran can be reread in the modern world.
200
596574
2581
๋‹ค์‹œ ์ฝํ˜€์งˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:59
That trend is generally called Islamic modernism,
201
599652
4766
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์€
๋Œ€๊ฐœ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ทผ๋Œ€์ฃผ์˜๋กœ ๋ถˆ๋ฆฌ๋ฉฐ,
10:04
and it was advanced by intellectuals and statesmen,
202
604541
2977
์ง€์‹์ธ๊ณผ ์ •์น˜๊ฐ€์— ์˜ํ•ด
10:07
not just as an intellectual idea, though,
203
607542
2094
๋‹จ์ง€ ์ง€์ ์ธ ๊ด€๋…์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ
10:09
but also as a political program.
204
609660
1713
์ •์น˜์  ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐœ์ „๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:11
And that's why, actually, in the 19th century,
205
611397
2187
๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด, ์ดํ›„ ์ „ ์ค‘๋™์— ๊ฑธ์ณ ์ œ๊ตญ์„ ์ด๋ฃฌ
10:13
the Ottoman Empire, which then covered the whole Middle East,
206
613608
3592
19์„ธ๊ธฐ ์˜คํ† ๋งŒ ์ œ๊ตญ์ด
๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ฐœํ˜ ์ฆ‰,
10:17
made very important reforms --
207
617224
2216
10:19
reforms like giving Christians and Jews an equal citizenship status,
208
619464
4586
๊ธฐ๋…๊ต๋„์™€ ์œ ๋Œ€๊ต๋„์—๊ฒŒ
๋™๋“ฑํ•œ ์‹œ๋ฏผ๊ถŒ ์ง€์œ„๋ฅผ ๋ถ€์—ฌํ•˜๊ณ ,
ํ—Œ๋ฒ•์„ ์ˆ˜์šฉํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
10:24
accepting a constitution,
209
624074
1562
10:25
accepting a representative parliament,
210
625660
1852
๋Œ€ํ‘œ ์˜ํšŒ ์ œ๋„๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ด๊ณ ,
10:27
advancing the idea of freedom of religion.
211
627536
2650
์ข…๊ต์˜ ์ž์œ ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฐœ๋…์„ ๋ฐœ์ „์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๋“ฑ์˜ ๊ฐœํ˜์„ ๋‹จํ–‰ํ•œ ์ด์œ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:30
That's why the Ottoman Empire, in its last decades,
212
630660
2976
๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์˜คํ† ๋งŒ ์ œ๊ตญ์ด ์ตœํ›„์˜ ์ˆ˜์‹ญ ๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ
10:33
turned into a proto-democracy, a constitutional monarchy,
213
633660
3901
์ตœ์ดˆ์˜ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€ ์ฆ‰,
์ž…ํ—Œ ๊ตฐ์ฃผ๊ตญ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณ€๋ชจํ•œ ์ด์œ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:37
and freedom was a very important political value at the time.
214
637585
3252
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ž์œ ๋Š” ๊ทธ ๋‹น์‹œ ์ •์น˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์น˜์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:40
Similarly, in the Arab world,
215
640861
1776
์ด์™€ ๋น„์Šทํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์•„๋ž ์„ธ๊ณ„์—์„œ๋Š”
10:42
there was what the great Arab historian Albert Hourani defines
216
642661
3609
์œ„๋Œ€ํ•œ ์•„๋ž ์—ญ์‚ฌํ•™์ž์ธ Albert Hourani๊ฐ€
์ž์œ ์˜ ์‹œ๋Œ€๋ผ๊ณ  ์ •์˜ํ•œ ์‹œ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์ถœํ˜„ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:46
as the Liberal Age.
217
646294
1151
10:47
He has a book, "Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age,"
218
647469
2543
๊ทธ๋Š” "์ž์œ  ์‹œ๋Œ€์˜ ์•„๋ž์  ์‚ฌ์ƒ"์ด๋ž€ ์ฑ…์„ ํ•˜๋‚˜ ์ผ๋Š”๋ฐ
๊ทธ๋Š” 19์„ธ๊ธฐ์™€ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ดˆ๋ฐ˜์„
10:50
and the Liberal Age, he defines as 19th century and early 20th century.
219
650036
4141
์ž์œ ์˜ ์‹œ๋Œ€(Liberal Age)๋ผ๊ณ  ์ •์˜ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋ถ„๋ช…ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€, ์ด๋Š” 20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ดˆ๋ฐ˜์˜
10:55
Quite notably, this was the dominant trend in the early 20th century
220
655010
4626
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€, ์ •์น˜๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ ํ•™์ž ์‚ฌ์ด์—
10:59
among Islamic thinkers and statesmen and theologians.
221
659660
2852
๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋‘๋“œ๋Ÿฌ์ง„ ์ถ”์„ธ์˜€๋‹จ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:03
But there is a very curious pattern in the rest of the 20th century,
222
663493
3848
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ค‘ํ›„๋ฐ˜์—๋Š”
์•„์ฃผ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์ด ์ถœํ˜„ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ,
11:07
because we see a sharp decline in this Islamic modernist line.
223
667365
4271
์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ทผ๋Œ€์ฃผ์˜์ž ๋…ธ์„ ์—
๊ฐ€ํŒŒ๋ฅธ ์‡ ํ‡ด๊ฐ€ ์—ฟ๋ณด์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:11
And in place of that,
224
671660
1647
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ ๋Œ€์‹ ์—
11:13
what happens is that Islamism grows as an ideology which is authoritarian,
225
673331
6419
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋Š” ๋‹ค๋ถ„ํžˆ
๋…์žฌ์ฃผ์˜์ ์ธ ์ด๋ฐ์˜ฌ๋กœ๊ธฐ ์ฆ‰,
11:19
which is quite strident,
226
679774
1862
๋งค์šฐ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ ์ด๊ณ ,
11:21
which is quite anti-Western,
227
681660
2447
๋ฐ˜์„œ๋ฐฉ์  ์„ฑํ–ฅ์ด ๊ฐ•ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
์œ ํ† ํ”ผ์•„์  ํ™˜์ƒ์„ ๊ธฐ๋ฐ˜์œผ๋กœ ํ•œ ์‚ฌํšŒ๋ฅผ ํ˜•์„ฑํ•˜๋ ค๋Š”
11:24
and which wants to shape society based on a utopian vision.
228
684131
3632
์ด๋ฐ์˜ฌ๋กœ๊ธฐ๋กœ ์„ฑ์žฅํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:27
So Islamism is the problematic idea
229
687787
3031
๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์„ธ๊ณ„์—์„œ
11:30
that really created a lot of problems in the 20th-century Islamic world.
230
690842
4118
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์ฃผ์˜๋Š” ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋งŽ์€ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ์–‘์‚ฐํ•˜๋Š”
๋ฌธ์ œ์  ์‚ฌ์ƒ์ด ๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:35
And even the very extreme forms of Islamism
231
695572
3369
๋˜ํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์ฃผ์˜์˜ ๋งค์šฐ ๊ทน๋‹จ์ ์ธ ํ˜•ํƒœ์—์„œ๋Š”
11:38
led to terrorism in the name of Islam --
232
698965
2156
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์˜ ์ด๋ฆ„์œผ๋กœ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ์žํ–‰ํ•˜๊ธฐ์กฐ์ฐจ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ „ ์ด๋ฅผ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์— ๋ฐ˜ํ•˜๋Š” ํ–‰์œ„๋กœ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ,
11:42
which is actually a practice that I think is against Islam,
233
702113
2840
11:44
but some, obviously, extremists, did not think that way.
234
704977
2986
์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ทน์ง„์ฃผ์˜์ž๋“ค์€ ๋ถ„๋ช… ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:47
But there is a curious question:
235
707987
1649
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ด ํ•˜๋‚˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:49
If Islamic modernism was so popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries,
236
709660
4976
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ทผ๋Œ€์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ 19์„ธ๊ธฐ์™€ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ดˆ์—
๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์„ฑํ–‰ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
11:54
why did Islamism become so popular in the rest of the 20th century?
237
714660
4114
์–ด์งธ์„œ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ค‘ํ›„๋ฐ˜์— ์™€์„œ๋Š”
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ๋Œ€๋‘๋˜์—ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
์ „ ์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€
11:59
And this is a question, I think, which needs to be discussed carefully.
238
719241
3395
๋งค์šฐ ์ฃผ์˜ ๊นŠ๊ฒŒ ๋…ผ์˜๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•  ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:02
In my book, I went into that question as well.
239
722660
2211
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ œ ์ฑ…์—์„œ๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ ์ด ์งˆ๋ฌธ์„ ๋‹ค๋ค˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:04
And actually, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.
240
724895
3571
์‚ฌ์‹ค ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐ๋ณด๋‹ค ์‰ฝ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:08
Just look at the political history of the 20th century,
241
728490
2654
๋‹จ์ง€ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ์˜ ์ •์น˜์  ์—ญ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณด๊ณ ,
๋งŽ์€ ์ผ์ด ๋ฐ”๋€Œ์–ด ์™”๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:11
and you see things have changed a lot.
242
731168
1921
ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์ด ๋ฐ”๋€ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€์š”.
12:13
The contexts have changed.
243
733113
1351
12:14
In the 19th century,
244
734488
1357
๊ฐ€๋ น,
12:15
when Muslims were looking at Europe as an example,
245
735869
2814
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์„ ์ง์‹œํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋˜ 19์„ธ๊ธฐ์—
12:18
they were independent; they were more self-confident.
246
738707
2706
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋…๋ฆฝ์ ์ด๊ณ  ๋ณด๋‹ค ์ž์‹ ๊ฐ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:21
In the early 20th century, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire,
247
741437
3001
20์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ดˆ, ์˜คํ† ๋งŒ ์ œ๊ตญ์˜ ๋ชฐ๋ฝ๊ณผ ๋”๋ถˆ์–ด
12:24
the whole Middle East was colonized.
248
744462
2385
์ „ ์ค‘๋™์ด ์‹๋ฏผ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜์— ๋†“์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:27
And when you have colonialization, what do you have?
249
747278
2485
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์‹๋ฏผ ์ง€๋ฐฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›๋Š”๋‹ค๋ฉด ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฐ์ •์„ ๊ฐ–๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
12:29
You have anti-colonialization.
250
749787
1849
๋ฐ”๋กœ ๋ฐ˜์‹๋ฏผ์ฃผ์˜ ์‚ฌ์ƒ์ด๊ฒ ์ง€์š”.
12:31
So Europe is not just an example now to emulate;
251
751660
2976
๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์ด์ œ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์€ ๋‹จ์ˆœํžˆ ๋ชจ๋ฐฉํ•  ์˜ˆ์‹œ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
12:34
it's an enemy to fight and to resist.
252
754660
2737
์‹ธ์šฐ๊ณ  ์ €ํ•ญํ•  ์ ์ด ๋˜์—ˆ๊ฒ ์ง€์š”.
12:37
So there's a very sharp decline in liberal ideas in the Muslim world,
253
757818
4327
๊ทธ์— ๋”ฐ๋ผ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„ ์„ธ๊ณ„์—์„œ์˜ ์ž์œ  ์‚ฌ์ƒ์€
๊ฐ€ํŒŒ๋ฅธ ํ•˜๊ฐ• ๊ณก์„ ์„ ๊ทธ๋ ธ๊ณ ,
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋ณด์‹œ๋Š” ๋Œ€๋กœ ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋ฐฉ์–ด์ ์ด๊ณ 
12:42
and what you see is more of a defensive, rigid, reactionary strain,
254
762169
5271
์—„๊ฒฉํ•˜๋ฉฐ ๋ฐ˜๋™์ ์ธ ์„ฑํ–ฅ์„ ๋„์–ด
12:47
which led to Arab socialism, Arab nationalism
255
767464
2197
์•„๋ž ์‚ฌํšŒ์ฃผ์˜, ์•„๋ž ๊ตญ์ˆ˜์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•˜๊ณ 
12:49
and ultimately to the Islamist ideology.
256
769685
2222
๊ถ๊ทน์ ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์ฃผ์˜ ์ด๋ฐ์˜ฌ๋กœ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:52
And when the colonial period ended,
257
772660
2768
๋˜ํ•œ ์‹๋ฏผ์ง€๋ฐฐ ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„์ด ๋๋‚˜์ž
12:55
what you had in place of that was generally secular dictators,
258
775452
4653
๊ทธ ์ž๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋Œ€์‹ ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€
๋Œ€๊ฐœ ์„ธ์†์  ๋…์žฌ์ž๋“ค์ด์—ˆ๊ณ ,
๊ทธ๋“ค ์ž์‹ ์€ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋ผ๊ณ  ์นญํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ
13:00
which say they're a country,
259
780129
1621
13:01
but did not bring democracy to the country,
260
781774
2053
๊ทธ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์— ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ ธ๋‹ค ์ฃผ์ง„ ์•Š์€ ์ฑ„
13:03
and established their own dictatorship.
261
783851
1878
๊ทธ๋“ค ์ž์‹ ์˜ ๋…์žฌ ์ •๋ถ€๋ฅผ ๊ตฌ์„ฑํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:05
And I think the West, at least some powers in the West,
262
785753
3463
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์— ์„œ๋ฐฉ, ์ ์–ด๋„ ์„œ๋ฐฉ์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ถŒ๋ ฅ
ํŠนํžˆ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—์„œ๋Š”
13:09
particularly the United States,
263
789240
1528
13:10
made the mistake of supporting those secular dictators,
264
790792
2663
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์„ธ์†์  ๋…์žฌ์ž๋“ค์„ ์ง€์ง€ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ณผ์˜ค๋ฅผ ๋ฒ”ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:13
thinking that they were more helpful for their interests.
265
793479
3260
๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ์ด์ต์— ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋„์›€์ด ๋˜๋ฆฌ๋ผ ์—ฌ๊ธด ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
13:16
But the fact that those dictators suppressed democracy in their country
266
796763
3784
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ์ง„์‹ค์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋…์žฌ์ž๋“ค์ด
์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ์–ต์••ํ•˜๊ณ 
13:20
and suppressed Islamic groups in their country
267
800571
2192
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์ง‘๋‹จ์„ ์–ต์••ํ•˜์—ฌ
13:22
actually made the Islamists much more strident.
268
802787
2473
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์ฃผ์˜์ž๋“ค์„ ๋ณด๋‹ค ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ 20์„ธ๊ธฐ์— ์™€์„œ, ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€
13:25
So in the 20th century,
269
805284
1352
13:26
you had this vicious cycle in the Arab world,
270
806660
2155
๋…์žฌ ์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ๋…์‹คํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋ฅผ ๋น„๋กฏํ•œ
13:28
where you have a dictatorship suppressing its own people,
271
808839
3003
์ž๊ตญ๋ฏผ์„ ์–ต์••ํ•˜๊ณ , ๊ตญ๋ฏผ์€ ๊ทธ์— ๋ฐ˜๋™์ ์ธ ๋ฐฉ์‹์œผ๋กœ ๋Œ€ํ•ญํ•˜๋Š”
13:31
including the Islamic pious,
272
811866
1770
์•„๋ž ์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์•…์ˆœํ™˜์„
13:33
and they're reacting in reactionary ways.
273
813660
2222
๊ฒช๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:36
There was one country, though,
274
816938
1698
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ๋‹จ ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋งŒ์€
13:38
which was able to escape or stay away from that vicious cycle.
275
818660
5097
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์•…์ˆœํ™˜์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ฒ—์–ด๋‚ฌ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
๋ฉ€์–ด์ ธ ์žˆ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
13:43
And that's the country where I come from, Turkey.
276
823781
2680
๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ œ ๋ชจ๊ตญ์ธ ํ„ฐํ‚ค์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:46
Turkey has never been colonized,
277
826913
2238
ํ„ฐํ‚ค๋Š” ์‹๋ฏผ์ง€๋ฐฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์•˜๋˜ ์ ์ด ์—†๊ณ 
์˜คํ† ๋งŒ ์ œ๊ตญ์˜ ๋ชฐ๋ฝ ์ดํ›„์—๋„ ๋…๋ฆฝ๊ตญ์˜ ์ง€์œ„๋ฅผ ์œ ์ง€ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:49
so it remained as an independent nation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
278
829175
3684
์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ๊ธฐ์–ตํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:52
That's one thing to remember;
279
832883
1416
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ผ๋ถ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ ์ฐพ์•„๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
13:54
it did not share the same anti-colonial hype
280
834323
2862
๋™์ผํ•œ ๋ฐ˜์‹๋ฏผ์ฃผ์˜์  ์‚ฌ์กฐ๋ฅผ ๊ณต์œ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:57
that you can find in some other countries in the region.
281
837209
2670
13:59
Secondly, and most importantly,
282
839903
1537
๋‘˜์งธ๋กœ, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์€
14:01
Turkey became a democracy
283
841464
1559
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ทธ ์–ด๋–ค ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ค ๋ณด๋‹ค
14:03
earlier than any of the countries we are talking about.
284
843047
2589
๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋จผ์ € ํ„ฐํ‚ค๊ฐ€ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๋˜์—ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:05
In 1950, Turkey had the first free and fair elections,
285
845660
2572
1950๋…„์— ํ„ฐํ‚ค์—์„  ์ตœ์ดˆ์˜ ์ž์œ ๋กญ๊ณ  ๊ณต์ •ํ•œ ์„ ๊ฑฐ๊ฐ€ ์น˜๋ค„์กŒ๊ณ 
์ด๋Š” ๋…์žฌ์ฃผ์˜์ ์ด๊ณ  ์„ธ์†์ ์ธ ์ •๊ถŒ์„ ์ข…์‹์‹œํ‚จ
14:08
which ended the more autocratic secular regime,
286
848256
2614
14:10
which was in the beginning of Turkey.
287
850894
1826
ํ„ฐํ‚ค์˜ ์‹œ์ž‘์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:12
And the pious Muslims in Turkey
288
852744
1962
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํ„ฐํ‚ค์˜ ๋…์‹คํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋Š”
14:14
saw that they could change the political system by voting.
289
854730
4069
์ž์‹ ๋“ค์ด ํˆฌํ‘œ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ์ •์น˜ ์ฒด๊ณ„๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Œ์„ ๋ณด์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:18
And they realized that democracy is something compatible with Islam,
290
858823
3510
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์™€ ์ž˜ ๋ถ€ํ•ฉํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž„์„,
๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ๊ฐ€์น˜์™€ ๋ถ€ํ•ฉํ•จ์„ ๊นจ๋‹ซ๊ณ ๋Š”
14:22
compatible with their values,
291
862357
1429
14:23
and they've been supportive of democracy.
292
863810
1977
๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ์ง€์ง€ํ•ด ์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:25
That's an experience
293
865811
1825
์ด๋Š” ์•„์ฃผ ์ตœ๊ทผ๊นŒ์ง€๋„
14:27
that not every other Muslim nation in the Middle East had,
294
867660
2784
์ค‘๋™์˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ตญ๊ฐ€ ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ๊ฒช์–ด๋ณด์ง€๋Š” ๋ชปํ•œ
๊ฒฝํ—˜์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:30
until very recently.
295
870468
1168
14:31
Secondly, in the past two decades,
296
871660
2243
๋‘˜์งธ๋กœ, ์ง€๋‚œ 20๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ
14:33
thanks to globalization, thanks to the market economy,
297
873927
2709
๊ธ€๋กœ๋ฒŒํ™”์™€ ์‹œ์žฅ ๊ฒฝ์ œ์˜ ๋•๋ถ„์œผ๋กœ
14:36
thanks to the rise of a middle class,
298
876660
2298
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ค‘์‚ฐ์ธต์˜ ์ฆ๊ฐ€๋กœ ์ธํ•ด
14:38
we in Turkey see what I define as a rebirth of Islamic modernism.
299
878982
4979
ํ„ฐํ‚ค์˜ ๊ตญ๋ฏผ๋“ค์€
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ทผ๋Œ€์ฃผ์˜์˜ ์žฌํƒ„์ƒ์ด๋ผ ์ •์˜ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:44
Now, there's the more urban middle-class pious Muslims
300
884326
3848
์ด์ œ ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋งŽ์€ ๋…์‹คํ•œ ๋„์‹œ ์ค‘์‚ฐ์ธต ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๊ฐ€ ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋ฉฐ
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋‹ค์‹œ๊ธˆ ์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ์ „ํ†ต์„ ๋Œ์•„๋ณด๊ณ 
14:48
who, again, look at their tradition
301
888198
2132
๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์— ์ผ๋ถ€ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Œ์„ ์•Œ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:50
and see that there are some problems in the tradition,
302
890354
2886
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ž์‹ ๋“ค์ด ๋ฐ”๋€Œ์–ด์•ผ ํ•จ์„, ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋ฅผ ์˜์‹ฌํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ฐœํ˜ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•จ์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:53
and understand that they need to be changed and questioned and reformed.
303
893264
3434
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์„ ๋ณด๊ณ ์„ ,
14:56
And they look at Europe, and see an example, again, to follow.
304
896722
3477
๋‹ค์‹œ ํ•œ๋ฒˆ ๋”ฐ๋ผ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์˜ˆ์‹œ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:00
They see an example, at least, to take some inspiration from.
305
900223
2913
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์ตœ์†Œํ•œ ์–ด๋–ค ์˜๊ฐ์„ ์–ป์„ ๋งŒํ•œ ์˜ˆ์‹œ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ฐ”๋กœ EU ํ”„๋กœ์„ธ์Šค,
15:03
That's why the EU process, Turkey's effort to join the EU,
306
903160
3909
ํ„ฐํ‚ค์˜ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์—ฐํ•ฉ ๊ฐ€์ž… ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์ด
ํ„ฐํ‚ค ๋‚ด์—์„œ ๋…์‹คํ•œ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต๋„๋“ค์— ์˜ํ•ด
15:07
has been supported inside Turkey by the Islamic pious,
307
907093
3658
์ง€์ง€๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์•„ ์˜จ ์ด์œ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:10
while some secular nationalists were against it.
308
910775
2463
๋ฐ˜๋ฉด ์ผ๋ถ€ ์„ธ์†์  ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ์ด๋ฅผ ๊ฑฐ๋ถ€ํ–ˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:13
Well, that process has been a little bit blurred
309
913793
2306
์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ด ํ”„๋กœ์„ธ์Šค๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์ธ๋“ค์ด ํ™˜์˜ํ•˜์ง€๋Š” ์•Š์•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค๋กœ
๋‹ค์†Œ ํ‡ด์ƒ‰๋˜๊ธด ํ–ˆ์ง€๋งŒ
15:16
by the fact that not all Europeans are that welcoming,
310
916123
2584
๊ทธ๊ฑด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์–˜๊ธฐ์ด๊ณ ์š”.
15:18
but that's another discussion.
311
918731
1574
15:20
But the pro-EU sentiment in Turkey in the past decade
312
920329
3463
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ง€๋‚œ ์‹ญ๋…„๊ฐ„ ํ„ฐํ‚ค ๋‚ด์˜ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์—ฐํ•ฉ ์ง€์ง€ ์ •์„œ๊ฐ€
15:23
has become almost an Islamic cause and supported by the Islamic liberals
313
923816
3996
๊ฑฐ์˜ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์  ๋ช…๋ถ„์ด ๋˜์—ˆ๊ณ ,
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์ž์œ ์ฃผ์˜์ž๋“ค๊ณผ
15:27
and the secular liberals as well, of course.
314
927836
2130
์„ธ์†์  ์ž์œ ์ฃผ์˜์ž๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ์„œ๋„ ๋‹น์—ฐํžˆ ์ง€์ง€๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:30
And thanks to that,
315
930414
1272
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ด์œ ๋กœ, ํ„ฐํ‚ค๋Š”
15:31
Turkey has been able to reasonably create a success story
316
931710
3243
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์™€ ๊ทธ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๊ฒฝ๊ฑดํ•œ ์ดํ•ด๊ฐ€
15:34
in which Islam and the most pious understandings of Islam
317
934977
4825
๋ฏผ์ฃผ์  ๊ฒŒ์ž„์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ๋˜์—ˆ์œผ๋ฉฐ
15:39
have become part of the democratic game,
318
939826
1987
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์˜ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜์™€ ๊ฒฝ์ œ ๋ฐœ์ „์—๋„
15:41
and even contributes to the democratic and economic advance of the country.
319
941837
4155
๊ธฐ์—ฌํ•จ์„ ๋ณด์—ฌ ์ฃผ๋Š”, ์„ฑ๊ณต์ ์ธ ์‚ฌ๋ก€๋ฅผ
๋‚จ๊ธธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:46
And this has been an inspiring example right now
320
946565
3668
์ด๋Š” ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ง€๊ธˆ, ์ผ๋ถ€ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์šด๋™์ด๋‚˜
์•„๋ž ์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—๊ฒŒ
15:50
for some of the Islamic movements
321
950257
2038
์ธ์ƒ์ ์ธ ์˜ˆ์‹œ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:52
or some of the countries in the Arab world.
322
952319
2150
15:54
You must have all seen the Arab Spring,
323
954493
2143
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ํŠ€๋‹ˆ์ง€์™€ ์ด์ง‘ํŠธ์—์„œ ์‹œ์ž‘๋œ
15:56
which began in Tunis and in Egypt.
324
956660
2742
์•„๋ž์˜ ๋ด„์— ์ฃผ๋ชฉํ•˜์…”์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:59
Arab masses just revolted against their dictators.
325
959426
3820
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•„๋ž ๋ฏผ์ค‘์€
๋‹จ์ง€ ๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ๋…์žฌ์ž์— ๋Œ€ํ•ญํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ,
16:03
They were asking for democracy; they were asking for freedom.
326
963863
3395
๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜์™€ ์ž์œ ๋ฅผ ์š”๊ตฌํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋˜ํ•œ ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋…์žฌ์ž๋“ค์ด ์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ์ •๊ถŒ์„ ์ •๋‹นํ™”ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ
16:07
And they did not turn out to be the Islamist boogeyman
327
967282
2616
16:09
that the dictators were always using to justify their regime.
328
969922
4786
๋Š˜์ƒ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š”
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ์ฃผ์˜ ๋ถ€๊ธฐ๋งจ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ "์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ž์œ ๋ฅผ, ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ์›ํ•œ๋‹ค.
16:15
They said, "We want freedom; we want democracy.
329
975089
2422
16:17
We are Muslim believers,
330
977535
1667
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ์‹ ๋„๋“ค์ด์ง€๋งŒ,
16:19
but we want to be living as free people in free societies."
331
979226
3898
์ž์œ ๋กœ์šด ์‚ฌํšŒ์—์„œ ์ž์œ ๋กœ์šด ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์œผ๋กœ ์‚ด๊ณ  ์‹ถ๋‹ค"๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋ฌผ๋ก , ์•„์ง ๊ฐ€์•ผํ•  ๊ธธ์ด ๋ฉ‰๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:23
Of course, this is a long road.
332
983513
2359
๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋Š” ํ•˜๋ฃป๋ฐค์ƒˆ ์„ฑ์ทจ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉฐ,
16:25
Democracy is not an overnight achievement; it's a process.
333
985896
3279
ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ๊ณผ์ •์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์„ธ๊ณ„์— ์žˆ์–ด
16:29
But this is a promising era in the Muslim world.
334
989199
3966
์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ํฌ๋ง์ ์ธ ์‹œ๋Œ€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ „ 19์„ธ๊ธฐ์— ์‹œ์ž‘๋˜์—ˆ์ง€๋งŒ
16:33
And I believe that the Islamic modernism which began in the 19th century,
335
993189
3617
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ ์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ์ •์น˜์  ๋ฌธ์ œ๋กœ ์ธํ•ด
16:36
but which had a setback in the 20th century
336
996830
2210
20์„ธ๊ธฐ์— ์™€์„œ ํ‡ด๋ณดํ•ด ๋ฒ„๋ฆฐ
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต ๊ทผ๋Œ€์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ์žฌํƒ„์ƒํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž„์„
16:39
because of the political troubles of the Muslim world,
337
999064
2559
๋ฏฟ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:41
is having a rebirth.
338
1001647
1180
๋˜ํ•œ ์„œ๋ฐฉ์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€ ํšŒ์˜๋ก ์ž๋“ค์—๋„ ๋ถˆ๊ตฌํ•˜๊ณ 
16:43
And I think the takeaway message from that would be that Islam,
339
1003225
4662
์ด์Šฌ๋žŒ๊ต์—๋Š”
16:47
despite some of the skeptics in the West,
340
1007911
2532
๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ํ–ฅํ•œ, ์ง„๋ณด์ฃผ์˜์™€ ์ž์œ ๋ฅผ ํ–ฅํ•œ
16:50
has the potential in itself
341
1010467
1876
๊ทธ๋งŒ์˜ ๊ธธ์„ ๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ž ์žฌ๋ ฅ์ด
16:52
to create its own way to democracy, create its own way to liberalism,
342
1012367
3579
๋‚ด์žฌ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์œผ๋ฉฐ, ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ๊ณผ๊ฑฐ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ์˜ ํƒˆ์ถœ๊ตฌ ํ‘œ์‹œ๊ฐ€ ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ 
16:55
create its own way to freedom.
343
1015970
1536
์ „ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:57
They just should be allowed to work for that.
344
1017530
2249
๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋‹จ์ง€ ๊ทธ ์ผ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ—ˆ๋ฝ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋Œ€๋‹จํžˆ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:00
Thanks so much.
345
1020092
1164
17:01
(Applause)
346
1021280
5368
(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7