Capitalism will eat democracy -- unless we speak up | Yanis Varoufakis

1,280,078 views ใƒป 2016-02-15

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ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุฃุฏู†ุงู‡ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ.

ุงู„ู…ุชุฑุฌู…: Nawal Sharabati ุงู„ู…ุฏู‚ู‘ู‚: Anwar Dafa-Alla
00:13
Democracy.
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ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ.
00:14
In the West,
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ููŠ ุงู„ุบุฑุจุŒ
00:16
we make a colossal mistake taking it for granted.
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ู†ุญู†ู ู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจุฅุฑุชูƒุงุจ ุฎุทุงู‹ ูุงุฏุญ ูƒุฃู†ู‡ ุฃู…ุฑูŒ ู…ูุฑูˆุบูŒ ู…ู†ู‡.
00:20
We see democracy
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ู†ุฑู‰ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ
00:21
not as the most fragile of flowers that it really is,
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ููŠ ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุชู‡ุง ู„ูŠุณุช ูƒุงู„ุฒู‡ูˆุฑ ุงู„ุฑู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ู‡ุดู‘ุฉุŒ
00:26
but we see it as part of our society's furniture.
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ู„ูƒู†ู†ุง ู†ุฑุงู‡ุง ูƒุฌุฒุก ู…ู† ู…ูƒูˆู†ุงุช ู…ุฌุชู…ุนู†ุง.
00:29
We tend to think of it as an intransigent given.
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ู†ู…ูŠู„ู ู„ู„ุฅุนุชู‚ุงุฏ ุฃู†ู‡ุง ู…ุซู„ ุดูŠุกูŒ ู…ููุชุฑุถ ุบูŠุฑ ู‚ุงุจู„ ู„ู„ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ.
00:34
We mistakenly believe that capitalism begets inevitably democracy.
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ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏู ุนู„ู‰ ู†ุญูˆ ุฎุงุทู‰ุก ุฃู† ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุชูู†ุชุฌู ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ู„ุง ู…ุญุงู„ุฉ.
00:39
It doesn't.
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ู„ูŠุณุช ูƒุฐู„ูƒ.
00:41
Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew and his great imitators in Beijing
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ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ุงู„ุณู†ุบุงููˆุฑูŠ ู„ูŠ ูƒูˆุงู† ูŠูˆ ูˆู…ู‚ู„ู‘ุฏูŠู‡ ุงู„ูƒุจุงุฑ ููŠ ุจูƒูŠู†
00:45
have demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt
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ุฃุธู‡ุฑูˆุง ุจู…ุง ู„ุง ูŠุฏุนูˆ ู…ุฌุงู„ู‹ุง ู„ู„ุดูƒ
00:48
that it is perfectly possible to have a flourishing capitalism,
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ุฃู†ู‡ ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุชู…ุงู…ู‹ุง ุฃู† ู†ุญุตู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ู…ุฒุฏู‡ุฑุฉุŒ
00:52
spectacular growth,
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ูˆู†ู…ูˆ ู…ุฏู‡ุดุŒ
00:54
while politics remains democracy-free.
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ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ุชุจู‚ู‰ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณุฉ ุฎุงู„ูŠุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ.
00:58
Indeed, democracy is receding in our neck of the woods,
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ููŠ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉุŒ ู„ู‚ุฏ ุชุฑุงุฌุนุช ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ููŠ ู…ู†ุทู‚ุชู†ุงุŒ
01:02
here in Europe.
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ู‡ู†ุง ููŠ ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจุง.
01:04
Earlier this year, while I was representing Greece --
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ููŠ ูˆู‚ุชู ุณุงุจู‚ ู…ู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุนุงู…ุŒ ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ูƒู†ุชู ุฃูู…ุซู„ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู† -
01:07
the newly elected Greek government --
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ุงู„ุญูƒูˆู…ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ู†ุชุฎุจุฉ ุญุฏูŠุซู‹ุง -
01:10
in the Eurogroup as its Finance Minister,
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ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠุฉ ูƒูˆุฒูŠุฑ ู„ู„ู…ุงู„ูŠุฉุŒ
01:12
I was told in no uncertain terms that our nation's democratic process --
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ู‚ูŠู„ ู„ูŠ ุจุนุจุงุฑุงุช ู„ุง ุดูƒ ููŠู‡ุง: ุฃู† ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ููŠ ุจู„ุงุฏู†ุง -
01:17
our elections --
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ุฅู†ุชุฎุงุจุงุชู†ุง -
01:19
could not be allowed to interfere
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ู„ุง ูŠู…ูƒู† ุงู„ุณู…ุงุญ ู„ู‡ุง ุจุงู„ุชุฏุฎู„
01:21
with economic policies that were being implemented in Greece.
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ู…ุน ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณุงุช ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุฉ ูƒู…ุง ุฌุฑู‰ ุชู†ููŠุฐู‡ุง ููŠ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†.
01:25
At that moment,
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ููŠ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ู„ุญุธุฉุŒ
01:26
I felt that there could be no greater vindication of Lee Kuan Yew,
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ุดุนุฑุชู ุฃู†ู‡ ู„ู… ูŠุนุฏ ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุงู„ุฅุซุจุงุช ุงู„ุฃูƒุจุฑ ู„ุตุญุฉ ูƒู„ุงู… ู„ูŠ ูƒูŠูˆุงู† ูŠูˆุŒ
01:30
or the Chinese Communist Party,
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ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุญุฒุจ ุงู„ุดูŠูˆุนูŠ ุงู„ุตูŠู†ูŠุŒ
01:32
indeed of some recalcitrant friends of mine who kept telling me
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ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุนุŒ ูู…ุง ุฒุงู„ ุจุนุถ ุฃุตุฏู‚ุงุฆูŠ ุงู„ู…ุชู…ุฑุฏูŠู† ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆู† ู„ูŠ
01:36
that democracy would be banned if it ever threatened to change anything.
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ุจุฃู†ู‡ ุณูŠุชู… ุญุธุฑ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุฅุฐุง ู‡ุฏุฏู‘ุช ุจุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ุฃูŠ ุดูŠุก.
01:41
Tonight, here, I want to present to you
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ู‡ูู†ุง ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู„ูŠู„ุฉุŒ ุฃุฑูŠุฏ ุฃู† ุฃู‚ุฏู… ู„ูƒู…
01:44
an economic case for an authentic democracy.
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ุญุงู„ุฉ ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุฉ ู…ู† ุฃุฌู„ ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุบูŠุฑ ุฒุงุฆูุฉ "ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุฉ".
01:48
I want to ask you to join me in believing again
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ุฃูˆุฏู ุฃู† ุฃุทู„ุจ ู…ู†ูƒู… ู…ุดุงุฑูƒุชูŠ ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุนุชู‚ุงุฏ ู…ุฑุฉู‹ ุฃุฎุฑู‰
01:53
that Lee Kuan Yew,
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ุฃู†ู‘ ู„ูŠ ูƒูŠูˆุงู† ูŠูˆุŒ
01:56
the Chinese Communist Party
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ูˆุงู„ุญุฒุจ ุงู„ุดูŠูˆุนูŠ ุงู„ุตูŠู†ูŠ
01:57
and indeed the Eurogroup
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ูˆุงู„ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠุฉ ุจุงู„ูุนู„
01:59
are wrong in believing that we can dispense with democracy --
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ู…ุฎุทุฆูˆู† ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุนุชู‚ุงุฏ ุฃู†ู†ุง ู†ุณุชุทูŠุน ุงู„ุฅุณุชุบู†ุงุก ุนู† ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ -
02:03
that we need an authentic, boisterous democracy.
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ู†ุญู† ุจุญุงุฌุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุฉ ู…ูุนู…ุฉ ุจุงู„ุญูŠูˆูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ.
02:07
And without democracy,
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ูˆุจุฏูˆู† ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉุŒ
02:10
our societies will be nastier,
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ุณุชุตุจุญ ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุชู†ุง ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุณูˆุกุงู‹ุŒ
02:13
our future bleak
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ูˆู…ุณุชู‚ุจู„ู†ุง ูƒุฆูŠุจ ู‚ุงุชู…
02:15
and our great, new technologies wasted.
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ูˆุณุชุถูŠุน ู‡ุจุงุกุงู‹ ุชู‚ู†ูŠุงุชู†ุง ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุซุฉ ุงู„ุฑุงุฆุนุฉ.
02:18
Speaking of waste,
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ู„ู„ุญุฏูŠุซ ุนู† ุงู„ุถูŠุงุนุŒ
02:19
allow me to point out an interesting paradox
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ุฅุณู…ุญูˆุง ู„ูŠ ุฃู† ุฃุดูŠุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ูุงุฑู‚ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุซูŠุฑุฉ ู„ู„ุฅู‡ุชู…ุงู…
02:22
that is threatening our economies as we speak.
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ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠูู‡ุฏุฏ ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏู†ุง ุญุงู„ูŠู‹ุง.
02:25
I call it the twin peaks paradox.
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ุฃุณู…ูŠู‡ุง ู…ูุงุฑู‚ุฉ ุงู„ู‚ู…ุชูŠู† ุงู„ุชูˆุฃู…ูŠู†.
02:27
One peak you understand --
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ุชุณุชุทูŠุนูˆุง ูู‡ู… ุฅุญุฏุงู‡ุง -
02:28
you know it, you recognize it --
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ุชุนุฑููˆู†ู‡ุง ูˆุชู…ูŠุฒูˆู†ู‡ุง -
02:30
is the mountain of debts that has been casting a long shadow
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ูˆู‡ูŠ ุฌุจู„ ุงู„ุฏูŠูˆู† ุงู„ุถุฎู…ุฉ ุฌุฏู‹ุง ุงู„ุชูŠ ุฃู„ู‚ุช ุจุธู„ู‡ุง ุงู„ุทูˆูŠู„
02:35
over the United States, Europe, the whole world.
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ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ูˆู„ุงูŠุงุช ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒูŠุฉ ูˆุฃูˆุฑูˆุจุง ูˆุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุจุฃูƒู…ู„ู‡.
02:38
We all recognize the mountain of debts.
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ู†ุฏุฑูƒู ุฌู…ูŠุนู‹ุง ุฌุจู„ ุงู„ุฏูŠูˆู† ุงู„ุถุฎู…ุฉ ุฌุฏู‹ุง.
02:40
But few people discern its twin.
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ูุทู† ุงู„ู‚ู„ูŠู„ ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ุชูˆุฃู…ู‡.
02:45
A mountain of idle cash
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ุฌุจู„ ุงู„ูƒู…ูŠุฉ ุงู„ูˆุงูุฑุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุชูƒุฏู‘ุณ
02:48
belonging to rich savers and to corporations,
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู…ู„ูƒู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฏู‘ุฎุฑูŠู† ุงู„ุฃุบู†ูŠุงุก ูˆุงู„ุดุฑูƒุงุชุŒ
02:53
too terrified to invest it
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠุดุนุฑูˆู† ุจุงู„ุฑุนุจ ู…ู† ุฅุณุชุซู…ุงุฑู‡
02:55
into the productive activities that can generate the incomes
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ููŠ ุงู„ุฃู†ุดุทุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุชุงุฌูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชููˆู„ุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฏุงุฎูŠู„
02:59
from which you can extinguish the mountain of debts
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ูˆูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒู… ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุชู…ูŠูŠุฒ ุฌุจู„ ุงู„ุฏูŠูˆู† ุงู„ุถุฎู…ุฉ ุฌุฏู‹ุง
03:02
and which can produce all those things that humanity desperately needs,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠูู…ูƒู†ู‡ุง ุฅู†ุชุงุฌ ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุก ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠุญุชุงุฌู‡ุง ุงู„ุจุดุฑ ุนู„ู‰ ู†ุญูˆู ู…ูู„ุญุŒ
03:06
like green energy.
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ูƒุงู„ุทุงู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุจูŠุฆูŠุฉ "ุงู„ุฎุถุฑุงุก".
03:07
Now let me give you two numbers.
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ูˆุงู„ุขู† ุฏุนูˆู†ูŠ ุฃุนุทูŠูƒู… ุฑู‚ู…ูŠู†.
03:10
Over the last three months,
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ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุฃุดู‡ุฑ ุงู„ุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุงู„ู…ุงุถูŠุฉุŒ
03:11
in the United States, in Britain and in the Eurozone,
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ููŠ ุงู„ูˆู„ุงูŠุงุช ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉ ูˆุจุฑูŠุทุงู†ูŠุง ูˆู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆุŒ
03:14
we have invested, collectively, 3.4 trillion dollars
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ุฅุณุชุซู…ุฑู†ุง ุจุดูƒู„ ุฌู…ุงุนูŠ 3.4 ุชุฑูŠู„ูŠูˆู† ุฏูˆู„ุงุฑ
03:18
on all the wealth-producing goods --
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ุนู„ู‰ ุฌู…ูŠุน ุงู„ุณู„ุน ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ู†ุชุฌุฉ
03:21
things like industrial plants, machinery,
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ุฃุดูŠุงุก ู…ุซู„ ุงู„ู…ู†ุดุขุช ุงู„ุตู†ุงุนูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุขู„ุงุชุŒ
03:24
office blocks, schools,
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ูˆู…ุจุงู†ูŠ ุงู„ู…ูƒุงุชุจ ูˆุงู„ู…ุฏุงุฑุณุŒ
03:26
roads, railways, machinery, and so on and so forth.
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ูˆุงู„ุทุฑู‚ ูˆุงู„ุณูƒูƒ ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุฏูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ู…ุนุฏุงุช ูˆุงู„ุชุฌู‡ูŠุฒุงุช ูˆู…ุง ุฅู„ู‰ ุฐู„ูƒ.
03:29
$3.4 trillion sounds like a lot of money
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ูŠุจุฏูˆ ู…ุจู„ุบ 3.4 ุชุฑูŠู„ูŠูˆู† ุฏูˆู„ุงุฑ ูƒู…ู‚ุฏุงุฑ ุถุฎู… ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุงู„
03:32
until you compare it to the $5.1 trillion
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ุญุชู‰ ุชู‚ุงุฑู†ูˆู‡ุง ุจู€ู 5.1 ุชุฑูŠู„ูŠูˆู† ุฏูˆู„ุงุฑ
03:36
that has been slushing around in the same countries,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุชุณูƒุนู ููŠ ุฃู†ุญุงุก ู†ูุณ ุงู„ุฏูˆู„ุŒ
03:39
in our financial institutions,
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ููŠ ู…ุคุณุณุงุชู†ุง ุงู„ู…ุงู„ูŠุฉุŒ
03:41
doing absolutely nothing during the same period
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ู„ุง ุชุนู…ู„ู ุฃูŠ ุดูŠุก ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฅุทู„ุงู‚ ุฎู„ุงู„ ู†ูุณ ุงู„ูุชุฑุฉ
03:45
except inflating stock exchanges and bidding up house prices.
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ุณูˆู‰ ุชุถุฎูŠู… ุณูˆู‚ ุงู„ุฃู…ูˆุงู„ ุงู„ู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ (ุงู„ุจูˆุฑุตุฉ) ูˆุงู„ู…ุฒุงูŠุฏุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุฃุณุนุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุณุงูƒู†.
03:50
So a mountain of debt and a mountain of idle cash
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ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุŒ ุฌุจู„ ุงู„ูƒู…ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุถุฎู…ุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏูŠูˆู† ูˆุฌุจู„ ูƒุชู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฃู…ูˆุงู„ ุงู„ู…ูƒุฏุณุฉ
03:55
form twin peaks, failing to cancel each other out
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ุชูุดูƒู„ ุงู„ู‚ู…ุชูŠู† ุงู„ุชูˆุฃู…ูŠู† ูˆุชูุดู„ู ููŠ ุฅู„ุบุงุก ุจุนุถู‡ุง ุงู„ุจุนุถ
03:59
through the normal operation of the markets.
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ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ุทุจูŠุนูŠ ู„ู„ุฃุณูˆุงู‚.
04:02
The result is stagnant wages,
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ูˆุงู„ู†ุชูŠุฌุฉ ู‡ูŠ ุฑูƒูˆุฏ ุงู„ุฃุฌูˆุฑุŒ
04:05
more than a quarter of 25- to 54-year-olds in America, in Japan and in Europe
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ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ุฑุจุน ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุชุชุฑุงูˆุญ ุฃุนู…ุงุฑู‡ู… 25-45 ููŠ ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒุง ูˆุงู„ูŠุงุจุงู† ูˆุฃูˆุฑูˆุจุง
04:11
out of work.
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ุนุงุทู„ูŠู† ุนู† ุงู„ุนู…ู„.
04:12
And consequently, low aggregate demand,
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ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุŒ ุฅู†ุฎูุงุถ ุงู„ุทู„ุจ ุงู„ูƒู„ูŠุŒ
04:14
which in a never-ending cycle,
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ู‡ูˆ ุฏูˆุงู…ุฉ ู„ุง ุชู†ุชู‡ูŠ ุฃุจุฏู‹ุงุŒ
04:17
reinforces the pessimism of the investors,
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ูŠุนุฒุฒู ุชุดุงุคู… ุงู„ู…ุณุชุซู…ุฑูŠู†ุŒ
04:20
who, fearing low demand, reproduce it by not investing --
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ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠู‡ุงุจูˆู† ุงู„ุทู„ุจ ุงู„ู…ู†ุฎูุถ ูˆูŠุนูŠุฏูˆู† ุฅู†ุชุงุฌู‡ ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุนุฏู… ุงู„ุฅุณุชุซู…ุงุฑ -
04:24
exactly like Oedipus' father,
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ุชู…ุงู…ุงู‹ ู…ุซู„ ูˆุงู„ุฏ ุฃูˆุฏูŠุจ
04:27
who, terrified by the prophecy of the oracle
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฃุตูŠุจ ุจุงู„ุฐุนุฑ ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ู†ุจูˆุกุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑุงูƒู„/ู‚ุงุฑู‰ุก ุงู„ู…ุณุชู‚ุจู„
04:29
that his son would grow up to kill him,
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ุจุฃู† ุฅุจู†ู‡ ุณูŠูƒุจุฑ ู„ูŠู‚ุชู„ู‡
04:32
unwittingly engineered the conditions
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ูˆุฏูุจุฑุช ุงู„ุธุฑูˆู ุนู† ุบูŠุฑ ู‚ุตุฏ
04:34
that ensured that Oedipus, his son, would kill him.
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ูˆุฃูƒุฏุช ุฃู† ุฃูˆุฏูŠุจ ุณูŠู‚ุชู„ ุฃุจุงู‡.
04:38
This is my quarrel with capitalism.
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ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุตุฑุงุนูŠ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ.
04:41
Its gross wastefulness,
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ููŠ ู…ู†ุชู‡ู‰ ุงู„ุชุจุฐูŠุฑุŒ
04:43
all this idle cash,
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ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃู…ูˆุงู„ ุงู„ู…ูƒุฏู‘ุณุฉุŒ
04:44
should be energized to improve lives,
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ูŠู†ุจุบูŠ ุชุดุบูŠู„ู‡ุง ู„ุชุญุณูŠู† ุญูŠุงุฉ ุงู„ุจุดุฑุŒ
04:49
to develop human talents,
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ูˆุชุทูˆูŠุฑ ุงู„ู…ูˆุงู‡ุจ ุงู„ุจุดุฑูŠุฉุŒ
04:50
and indeed to finance all these technologies,
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ูˆุชู…ูˆูŠู„ ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุชู‚ู†ูŠุงุชุŒ
04:53
green technologies,
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ุงู„ุชู‚ู†ูŠุงุช ุงู„ุจูŠุฆูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏุฉุŒ
04:54
which are absolutely essential for saving planet Earth.
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู‡ูŠ ู…ู‡ู…ุฉ ูุนู„ู‹ุง ู„ุฅู†ู‚ุงุฐ ูƒูˆูƒุจ ุงู„ุฃุฑุถ.
04:58
Am I right in believing that democracy might be the answer?
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ู‡ู„ ุฃู†ุง ู…ุญู‚ูŒ ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุนุชู‚ุงุฏ ุฃู†ู‡ ู‚ุฏ ุชูƒูˆู† ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ุฌูˆุงุจุŸ
05:01
I believe so,
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ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏู ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
05:02
but before we move on,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ู…ุถูŠ ู‚ุฏู…ู‹ุงุŒ
05:04
what do we mean by democracy?
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ู…ุงุฐุง ู†ุนู†ูŠ ุจุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉุŸ
05:06
Aristotle defined democracy
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ุนุฑู‘ู ุฃุฑุณุทูˆ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ
05:08
as the constitution in which the free and the poor,
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ูƒุฏุณุชูˆุฑุŒ ุจุญูŠุซ ุงู„ูู‚ุฑุงุก ูˆุงู„ุฃุญุฑุงุฑุŒ
05:13
being in the majority, control government.
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ู‡ู… ุงู„ุบุงู„ุจูŠุฉ ุงู„ุนุธู…ู‰ ุŒ ูŠุณูŠุทุฑูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญูƒูˆู…ุฉ.
05:17
Now, of course Athenian democracy excluded too many.
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ุจุงู„ุทุจุน ุฅุณุชุจุนุฏุช ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ุขุซูŠู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ูƒุซูŠุฑ ุฌุฏู‹ุง.
05:20
Women, migrants and, of course, the slaves.
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ุงู„ู†ุณุงุก ูˆุงู„ู…ู‡ุงุฌุฑูˆู† ูˆุงู„ุนุจูŠุฏ ุทุจุนู‹ุง.
05:24
But it would be a mistake
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุณูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฎุทุฃ
05:25
to dismiss the significance of ancient Athenian democracy
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ุตุฑู ุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ุนู† ุฃู‡ู…ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุฉุŒ
05:28
on the basis of whom it excluded.
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ุนู„ู‰ ุฃุณุงุณ ู…ูŽู† ุฅุณุชุจุนุฏุช.
05:31
What was more pertinent,
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ู…ุง ูƒุงู† ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุฃู‡ู…ูŠุฉุŒ
05:32
and continues to be so about ancient Athenian democracy,
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ูˆู„ุง ูŠุฒุงู„ ูƒุฐู„ูƒ ุญูˆู„ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ุขุซูŠู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุฉุŒ
05:36
was the inclusion of the working poor,
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ู‡ูˆ ุดู…ูˆู„ ุงู„ุทุจู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูู‚ูŠุฑุฉ ุงู„ุนุงู…ู„ุฉุŒ
05:40
who not only acquired the right to free speech,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู„ู… ุชุญุตู„ ูู‚ุท ุนู„ู‰ ุญู‚ ุงู„ุชุนุจูŠุฑ ุงู„ุญุฑุŒ
05:45
but more importantly, crucially,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุงู„ุฃู‡ู… ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒ ูˆุจุดูƒู„ ุญุงุณู…ุŒ
05:47
they acquired the rights to political judgments
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ุงูƒุชุณุจูˆุง ุญู‚ูˆู‚ ุงู„ู‚ุฑุงุฑุงุช ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุฉ
05:50
that were afforded equal weight
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู…ู†ุญุช ู†ููˆุฐู‹ุง ู…ุชูˆุงุฒู
05:52
in the decision-making concerning matters of state.
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ููŠ ุตู†ุน ุงู„ู‚ุฑุงุฑุงุช ุจุดุฃู† ุฃู…ูˆุฑ ุงู„ุฏูˆู„ุฉ.
05:56
Now, of course, Athenian democracy didn't last long.
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ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ ู„ู… ุชุณุชู…ุฑ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ุขุซูŠู†ูŠุฉ ุทูˆูŠู„ู‹ุง.
05:59
Like a candle that burns brightly, it burned out quickly.
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ู…ุซู„ ุงู„ุดู…ุนุฉ ุฐุงุช ุงู„ู„ู‡ุจ ุงู„ูˆู‡ุงุฌ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชูุณุชู‡ู„ูƒ ููŠ ูˆู‚ุชู ู‚ุตูŠุฑ.
06:03
And indeed,
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ูˆููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุนุŒ
06:04
our liberal democracies today do not have their roots in ancient Athens.
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ู„ูŠุณ ู„ุฏู‰ ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุงุชู†ุง ุงู„ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆู… ุฌุฐูˆุฑู‹ุง ููŠ ุฃุซูŠู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุฉ.
06:09
They have their roots in the Magna Carta,
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ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ุฌุฐูˆุฑู‹ุง ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุงุฌู†ุง ูƒุงุฑุชุง-ุงู„ู…ูŠุซุงู‚ ุงู„ุฃุนุธู…
06:11
in the 1688 Glorious Revolution,
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ูˆููŠ ุงู„ุซูˆุฑุฉ ุงู„ู…ุฌูŠุฏุฉุŒ ุซูˆุฑุฉ 1688
06:14
indeed in the American constitution.
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ูˆููŠ ุงู„ุฏุณุชูˆุฑ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒูŠ ูุนู„ู‹ุง.
06:17
Whereas Athenian democracy was focusing on the masterless citizen
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ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ุฑูƒุฒุช ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ุขุซูŠู†ูŠุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ูˆุงุทู†ูŠู† ุจุฏูˆู† ุงู„ุฃุณูŠุงุฏ
06:22
and empowering the working poor,
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ูˆุชู…ูƒูŠู† ุงู„ูู‚ุฑุงุก ุงู„ุนุงู…ู„ูŠู†ุŒ
06:25
our liberal democracies are founded on the Magna Carta tradition,
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ุชุฃุณุณุช ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุงุชู†ุง ุงู„ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุชู‚ู„ูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ุงุฌู†ุง ูƒุงุฑุชุงุŒ
06:29
which was, after all, a charter for masters.
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ูŠุซุงู‚ ุงู„ุณุงุฏุฉ ุจุนุฏ ูƒู„ ุดูŠุก.
06:32
And indeed, liberal democracy only surfaced when it was possible
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ูˆููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุนุŒ ุธู‡ุฑุช ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠุฉ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูƒุงู† ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ู…ูƒู† ูู‚ุท
06:36
to separate fully the political sphere from the economic sphere,
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ุงู„ูุตู„ ุงู„ุชุงู… ุจูŠู† ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ูˆุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุŒ
06:40
so as to confine the democratic process fully in the political sphere,
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ูˆุฐู„ูƒ ู„ุญุตุฑ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุจุงู„ูƒุงู…ู„ ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุŒ
06:45
leaving the economic sphere --
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ุชุงุฑูƒู‹ุง ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ -
06:47
the corporate world, if you want --
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ุฅุฐุง ุฃุฑุฏุชู… ุชุณู…ูŠุชู‡ุŒ ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ุฃุนู…ุงู„ ูˆุงู„ุดุฑูƒุงุช-
06:49
as a democracy-free zone.
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ูƒู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุฎุงู„ูŠุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉุŒ
06:53
Now, in our democracies today,
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ุญุงู„ูŠู‹ุงุŒ ู„ุฏู‰ ุฏูŠู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุงุชู†ุง ุงู„ูŠูˆู…ุŒ
06:56
this separation of the economic from the political sphere,
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ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ูุตู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ู…ู† ุงู„ุตุนูŠุฏ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุŒ
07:00
the moment it started happening,
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ูˆููŠ ู„ุญุธุฉ ุจุฏุฃ ููŠ ุงู„ุญุฏูˆุซุŒ
07:02
it gave rise to an inexorable, epic struggle between the two,
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ุฃุฏู‰ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฅุฑุชูุงุน ุงู„ุตุฑุงุน ุงู„ู…ู„ุญู…ูŠ ุงู„ุญุชู…ูŠ ุจูŠู† ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ูŠู† (ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ูˆุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ)ุŒ
07:06
with the economic sphere colonizing the political sphere,
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ู…ุน ุฅุณุชุนู…ุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ู„ู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุŒ
07:10
eating into its power.
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ูˆุงู„ู‚ุถุงุก ุนู„ู‰ ู†ููˆุฐู‡.
07:12
Have you wondered why politicians are not what they used to be?
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ู‡ู„ ุชุณุงุกู„ุชู… ู„ู…ุงุฐุง ู„ู… ูŠุนุฏ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠูˆู† ู„ู…ุง ูƒุงู†ูˆุง ุนู„ูŠู‡ ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ุŸ
07:16
It's not because their DNA has degenerated.
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ุฅู†ู‡ ู„ูŠุณ ุจุณุจุจ ุชุฏู‡ูˆุฑ ุงู„ุญู…ุถ ุงู„ู†ูˆูˆูŠ (DNA) ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู…
07:19
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
07:20
It is rather because one can be in government today and not in power,
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ุจุณุณุจุจ ุฃู†ู‡ ูˆุฅู„ู‰ ุญุฏู ู…ุง ูŠู…ูƒู† ู„ุดุฎุต ุงู„ูŠูˆู… ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ููŠ ุงู„ุญูƒูˆู…ุฉ ูˆู„ูŠุณ ููŠ ุงู„ุณู„ุทุฉ "ุจู„ุง ู†ููˆุฐ"
07:25
because power has migrated from the political to the economic sphere,
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ู„ุฃู† ุงู„ุณู„ุทุฉ ุฅุฑุชุญู„ุช ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุŒ
07:28
which is separate.
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู‡ูŠ ู…ู†ูุตู„ุฉ.
07:31
Indeed,
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ูˆููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุนุŒ
07:32
I spoke about my quarrel with capitalism.
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ู„ู‚ุฏ ุชุญุฏุซุชู ุนู† ุตุฑุงุนูŠ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ.
07:35
If you think about it,
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ู„ูˆ ููƒุฑุชู… ุญูˆู„ู‡ุงุŒ
07:36
it is a little bit like a population of predators,
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ุชุดุจู‡ ู‚ู„ูŠู„ู‹ุง ู‚ุทุงุน ู…ู† ุงู„ุญูŠูˆุงู†ุงุช ุงู„ู…ูุชุฑุณุฉุŒ
07:41
that are so successful in decimating the prey that they must feed on,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชูุชูƒ ุจุชููˆู‚ ูุฑูŠุณุชู‡ุง ุงู„ุชูŠ ุณูˆู ุชุชุบุฐู‰ ุนู„ูŠู‡ุงุŒ
07:46
that in the end they starve.
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ูˆููŠ ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุทุงูุŒ ุชุนุงู†ูŠ ูˆุชู…ูˆุช ู…ู† ุงู„ุฌูˆุน.
07:48
Similarly,
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ุนู„ู‰ ู†ุญูˆ ู…ู…ุงุซู„ุŒ
07:49
the economic sphere has been colonizing and cannibalizing the political sphere
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ู„ู‚ุฏ ุฅุณุชุนู…ุฑ ูˆููƒูƒ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ
07:53
to such an extent that it is undermining itself,
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ู„ุฏุฑุฌุฉ ุฃู†ู‡ ู‚ูˆุถู‘/ุฃุถุนู ู†ูุณู‡ุŒ
07:57
causing economic crisis.
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ู…ุณุจุจุงู‹ ุงู„ุฃุฒู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุฉ.
07:58
Corporate power is increasing,
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ูˆุฒุงุฏ ููŠ ู†ููˆุฐ ุงู„ุดุฑูƒุงุช ูˆุงู„ุฃุนู…ุงู„ุŒ
08:00
political goods are devaluing,
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ูˆู‚ู„ู‘ู„ ู…ู† ุดุฃู† ุงู„ุณู„ุน ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุฉุŒ
08:03
inequality is rising,
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ูˆุฃุฎุฐุช ุนุฏู… ุงู„ู…ุณุงูˆุงุฉ ูˆุงู„ุธู„ู… ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุฑุชูุงุนุŒ
08:05
aggregate demand is falling
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ูˆุงู†ุฎูุถ ุงู„ุทู„ุจ ุงู„ูƒู„ูŠ
08:06
and CEOs of corporations are too scared to invest the cash of their corporations.
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ูˆุฒุงุฏ ุฎูˆู ุงู„ู…ุฏูŠุฑูŠู† ุงู„ุชู†ููŠุฐูŠูŠู† ู„ู„ุดุฑูƒุงุช ู…ู† ุฅุณุชุซู…ุงุฑ ุงู„ุฃู…ูˆุงู„ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ ููŠ ุดุฑูƒุงุชู‡ู…
08:13
So the more capitalism succeeds in taking the demos out of democracy,
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ููƒู„ู…ุง ู†ุฌุญุช ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ููŠ ุฅุฎุฑุงุฌ ุงู„ุดุนุจ ู…ู† ุญูƒู… ุงู„ุดุนุจ "ุงู„ุฏูŠู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ"ุŒ
08:20
the taller the twin peaks
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ูƒู„ู…ุง ุฒุงุฏ ุทูˆู„ ุงู„ู‚ู…ุชูŠู† ุงู„ุชูˆุฃู…
08:21
and the greater the waste of human resources
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ูˆุฒุงุฏ ุถูŠุงุน ูˆู‡ุฏุฑ ุงู„ู…ูˆุงุฑุฏ ุงู„ุจุดุฑูŠุฉ
08:25
and humanity's wealth.
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ูˆุซุฑูˆุฉ ุงู„ุจุดุฑ.
08:27
Clearly, if this is right,
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ูู…ู† ุงู„ูˆุงุถุญุŒ ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุง ุตุญูŠุญู‹ุงุŒ
08:30
we must reunite the political and economic spheres
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ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุชูˆุญูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ูŠู† ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ูˆุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ
08:33
and better do it with a demos being in control,
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ูˆุงู„ุฃูุถู„ ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุฐู„ูƒ ู…ุน ุจู‚ุงุก ุงู„ุดุนุจ/ุงู„ุนุงู…ุฉ ุชุญุช ุงู„ุณูŠุทุฑุฉุŒ
08:37
like in ancient Athens except without the slaves
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ูƒู…ุง ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุญุงู„ ููŠ ุฃุซูŠู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุฉ ู…ุง ุนุฏุง ุฅุณุชุจุนุงุฏ ุงู„ุนุจูŠุฏ
08:40
or the exclusion of women and migrants.
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ุฃูˆ ุฅู‚ุตุงุก ุงู„ู†ุณุงุก ูˆุงู„ู…ู‡ุงุฌุฑูŠู†.
08:44
Now, this is not an original idea.
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ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ ู‡ุฐู‡ ู‡ูŠ ู„ูŠุณุช ุงู„ููƒุฑุฉ ุงู„ุฃุตู„ูŠุฉ.
08:45
The Marxist left had that idea 100 years ago
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ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏู‰ ุงู„ูŠุณุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุงุฑูƒุณูŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ููƒุฑุฉ ู…ู†ุฐ 100 ุนุงู…
08:48
and it didn't go very well, did it?
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ูˆู„ู… ุชู†ุฌุญ ูƒู…ุง ูŠู†ุจุบูŠุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
08:50
The lesson that we learned from the Soviet debacle
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ูุงู„ุฏุฑุณ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุชุนู„ู…ู†ุงู‡ ู…ู† ุงู„ูุดู„ ุงู„ุณูˆููŠูŠุชูŠ
08:54
is that only by a miracle will the working poor be reempowered,
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ู‡ูˆ ุฃู†ู‡ ุณูŠุชู… ุชู…ูƒูŠู† ุงู„ุทุจู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุนุงู…ู„ุฉ ุงู„ูู‚ูŠุฑุฉ ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ู…ุนุฌุฒุฉ ูู‚ุทุŒ
09:00
as they were in ancient Athens,
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ูƒู…ุง ูƒุงู† ุญุงู„ู‡ู… ููŠ ุฃุซูŠู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุฉุŒ
09:02
without creating new forms of brutality and waste.
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ุจุฏูˆู† ุฅุญุฏุงุซ ุฃุดูƒุงู„ ุฌุฏูŠุฏุฉ ู„ู„ูˆุญุดูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชุจุฏูŠุฏ.
09:06
But there is a solution:
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุญู„:
09:08
eliminate the working poor.
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ุงู„ู‚ุถุงุก ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุทุจู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุนุงู…ู„ุฉ ุงู„ูู‚ูŠุฑุฉ.
09:11
Capitalism's doing it
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ุชู‚ูˆู… ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุจุฐู„ูƒ
09:12
by replacing low-wage workers with automata, androids, robots.
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ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุฅุณุชุจุฏุงู„ ุงู„ุนู…ุงู„ ุฐูˆูŠ ุงู„ุฃุฌูˆุฑ ุงู„ู…ู†ุฎูุถุฉ ุจุงู„ุขู„ุงุช ุฐุงุชูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ุŒ ูˆุงู„ุฃู†ุฏุฑูˆูŠุฏุŒ ูˆุงู„ุฅู†ุณุงู† ุงู„ุขู„ูŠ.
09:19
The problem is
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ุงู„ู…ุดูƒู„ู‡ ู‡ูŠ:
09:20
that as long as the economic and the political spheres are separate,
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ุทุงู„ู…ุง ุฃู† ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ูŠู† ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ูˆุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ู…ู†ูุตู„ูŠู†ุŒ
09:23
automation makes the twin peaks taller,
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ุณุชุฌุนู„ ุงู„ุฃุชู…ุชู‡ ุงู„ู‚ู…ุชูŠู† ุงู„ุชูˆุฃู…ูŠู† ุฃุทูˆู„ุŒ
09:28
the waste loftier
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ูˆุงู„ุชุจุฏูŠุฏ ู…ุชููˆู‚ู‹ุฃ
09:30
and the social conflicts deeper,
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ูˆุงู„ุตุฑุงุนุงุช ุงู„ุฅุฌุชู…ุงุนูŠุฉ ุฃุนู…ู‚ุŒ
09:32
including --
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ุจู…ุง ููŠู‡ุง -
09:34
soon, I believe --
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ู‚ุฑูŠุจุงู‹ุŒ ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏู
09:35
in places like China.
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ููŠ ุงู…ุงูƒู† ู…ุซู„ ุงู„ุตูŠู†.
09:38
So we need to reconfigure,
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ุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุŒ ู†ุญู† ุจุญุงุฌุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุชูƒูˆูŠู†ุŒ
09:41
we need to reunite the economic and the political spheres,
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ู†ุญู† ุจุญุงุฌุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุชูˆุญูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ูŠู† ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ูˆุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ.
09:44
but we'd better do it by democratizing the reunified sphere,
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ู„ูƒู† ุงู„ุฃูุถู„ ู„ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุฐู„ูƒ ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุฏู…ู‚ุฑุทุฉ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ุงุช ุงู„ู…ูˆุญุฏู‘ุฉ
09:50
lest we end up with a surveillance-mad hyperautocracy
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ุฎุดูŠุฉ ุฃู† ูŠู†ุชู‡ูŠ ุจู†ุง ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฅูุฑุงุท ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฑุงู‚ุจุฉ ูˆุงู„ุฅุณุชุจุฏุงุฏ.
09:55
that makes The Matrix, the movie, look like a documentary.
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุฌุนู„ ุงู„ููŠู„ู… ุงู„ุณูŠู†ู…ุงุฆูŠ "ู…ุงุชุฑูŠูƒุณ" ูŠุดุจู‡ ุงู„ููŠู„ู… ุงู„ูˆุซุงุฆู‚ูŠ ุงู„ุชุณุฌูŠู„ูŠ.
10:00
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
10:01
So the question is not whether capitalism will survive
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ูุงู„ุณุคุงู„ ู‡ูˆ ู„ูŠุณ ู…ุง ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู†ุช ุณุชุจู‚ู‰ ุงู„ุฑุงุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ู‚ูŠุฏ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ
10:05
the technological innovations it is spawning.
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ูˆุณุชู†ุฒุฏุงุฏ ุงู„ุฅุจุชูƒุงุฑุงุช ุงู„ุชูƒู†ูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠุฉ
10:07
The more interesting question
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ุงู„ุณุคุงู„ ุงู„ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุฅุซุงุฑุฉ ู„ู„ุฅู‡ุชู…ุงู…
10:09
is whether capitalism will be succeeded by something resembling a Matrix dystopia
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ู‡ูˆ ู…ุง ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู†ุช ุณุชู†ุฌุญ ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุนู† ุทุฑูŠู‚ ู…ุง ูŠุดุจู‡ ู…ุงุชุฑูŠูƒุณ (ุงู„ู…ุฏูŠู†ุฉ ุงู„ูุงุณุฏุฉ)
10:15
or something much closer to a Star Trek-like society,
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ุฃูˆ ุดูŠุก ุฃู‚ุฑุจ ุจูƒุซูŠุฑ ู…ู† ู…ุฌุชู…ุน ุณุชุงุฑ ุชุฑูŠูƒ
10:19
where machines serve the humans
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ุญูŠุซ ุชุฎุฏู… ุงู„ุขู„ุงุช ุงู„ุจุดุฑ
10:22
and the humans expend their energies exploring the universe
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ูˆูŠู†ูู‚ ุงู„ุจุดุฑ ุทุงู‚ุงุชู‡ู… ููŠ ุฅุณุชูƒุดุงู ุงู„ูƒูˆู†
10:26
and indulging in long debates about the meaning of life
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ูˆุงู„ุฅู†ุบู…ุงุณ ููŠ ู…ู†ุงู‚ุดุงุช ุทูˆูŠู„ุฉ ุญูˆู„ ู…ุนู†ู‰ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ
10:30
in some ancient, Athenian-like, high tech agora.
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ููŠ ุจุนุถ ุฃู…ุงูƒู† ุงู„ุชุฌู…ุน ููŠ ุฃุบูˆุฑุง ููŠ ุฃุซูŠู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุฉ.
10:36
I think we can afford to be optimistic.
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ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏู ุฃู†ู‡ ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุชุญู…ู„ ุฃู† ู†ูƒูˆู† ู…ุชูุงุฆู„ูŠู†.
10:41
But what would it take,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ูƒู… ุณูŠุณุชุบุฑู‚ ุฐู„ูƒุŸ
10:42
what would it look like
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ู…ุง ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุณูŠูƒูˆู† ุนู„ูŠู‡ุŸ
10:44
to have this Star Trek-like utopia, instead of the Matrix-like dystopia?
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ู„ูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฏูŠู†ุฉ ุงู„ูุงุถู„ุฉ -ุณุชุงุฑ ุชุฑูŠูƒ ุจุฏู„ู‹ุง ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุฏูŠู†ุฉ ุงู„ูุงุณุฏุฉ - ู…ุงุชุฑูŠูƒุณ
10:50
In practical terms,
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ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุงุญูŠุฉ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉุŒ
10:51
allow me to share just briefly,
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ุฏุนูˆู†ูŠ ู…ุดุงุฑูƒุชูƒู… ุจุฅุฎุชุตุงุฑ ูู‚ุทุŒ
10:53
a couple of examples.
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ุจุถุนุฉ ุฃู…ุซู„ุฉ.
10:55
At the level of the enterprise,
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ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุณุชูˆู‰ ุงู„ุดุฑูƒุฉุŒ
10:56
imagine a capital market,
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ุชุฎูŠู„ูˆุง ุงู„ุณูˆู‚ ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุŒ
10:59
where you earn capital as you work,
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ุญูŠุซู ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ูƒุณุจ ุงู„ู…ุงู„ ุทุงู„ู…ุง ุฃู†ุช ุชุนู…ู„ุŒ
11:02
and where your capital follows you from one job to another,
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ูˆุญูŠุซ ูŠุชุจุนูƒ ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูƒ ู…ู† ูˆุธูŠูุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ูˆุธูŠูุฉ ุฃุฎุฑู‰ุŒ
11:08
from one company to another,
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ู…ู† ุดุฑูƒุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฃุฎุฑู‰ุŒ
11:09
and the company --
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ูˆุงู„ุดุฑูƒุฉ --
11:11
whichever one you happen to work at at that time --
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ุฃูŠุฉ ุดุฑูƒุฉ ูƒู†ุช ุชุนู…ู„ ู„ุฏูŠู‡ุง ููŠ ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ูˆู‚ุช --
11:14
is solely owned by those who happen to work in it at that moment.
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ู…ู…ู„ูˆูƒุฉ ูู‚ุท ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ุฃุดุฎุงุต ูŠุนู…ู„ูˆู† ููŠู‡ุง ููŠ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ู„ุญุธุฉ.
11:19
Then all income stems from capital, from profits,
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ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ุชูุณุชู…ุฏ (ุชูุตุฑู) ุงู„ู…ุฏุงุฎูŠู„ ู…ู† ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ ูˆุงู„ุฃุฑุจุงุญุŒ
11:24
and the very concept of wage labor becomes obsolete.
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ูˆูŠุตุจุญ ู…ูู‡ูˆู… ุงู„ุนู…ู„ ุงู„ู…ุฃุฌูˆุฑ ููŠ ุทูŠ ุงู„ู†ุณูŠุงู†.
11:28
No more separation between those who own but do not work in the company
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ู„ู… ูŠุนุฏ ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ูุตู„ ุจูŠู† ู‡ุคู„ุงุก ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠู…ู„ูƒูˆู† ูˆู„ูƒู† ู„ุง ูŠุนู…ู„ูˆู† ููŠ ุงู„ุดุฑูƒุฉ
11:35
and those who work but do not own the company;
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ูˆุจูŠู† ู‡ุคู„ุงุก ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠุนู…ู„ูˆู† ูˆู„ูƒู† ู„ุง ูŠู…ู„ูƒูˆู† ุงู„ุดุฑูƒุฉุ›
11:38
no more tug-of-war between capital and labor;
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ู„ู… ูŠุนุฏ ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุงู„ุตุฑุงุน ุจูŠู† ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ ูˆุงู„ุนู…ุงู„ุฉุ›
11:42
no great gap between investment and saving;
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ูˆู„ุง ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ูุฌูˆุฉ ูƒุจูŠุฑุฉ ุจูŠู† ุงู„ุฅุณุชุซู…ุงุฑ ูˆุงู„ุฅุฏุฎุงุฑุ›
11:46
indeed, no towering twin peaks.
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ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุนุŒ ู„ู… ุชุนุฏ ุงู„ู‚ู…ุชูŠู† ุงู„ุชูˆุฃู…ูŠู† ุถุฎู…ุฉ.
11:50
At the level of the global political economy,
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ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุณุชูˆู‰ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุŒ
11:53
imagine for a moment
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ุชุฎูŠู„ูˆุง ู„ู„ุญุธุฉ
11:54
that our national currencies have a free-floating exchange rate,
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ุฃู† ู„ุฏู‰ ุนู…ู„ุงุชู†ุง ุงู„ู…ุญู„ูŠุฉ ุณุนุฑ ุตุฑู ุฎุงู„ู ู…ู† ุงู„ุชู‚ู„ู‘ุจุŒ
11:59
with a universal, global, digital currency,
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ู…ุน ูˆุฌูˆุฏ ุนู…ู„ุฉ ุฑู‚ู…ูŠุฉ ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุฉ ุฏูˆู„ูŠุฉุŒ
12:03
one that is issued by the International Monetary Fund,
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ุนูู…ู„ุฉ ุชู… ุฅุตุฏุงุฑู‡ุง ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏ ุงู„ุฏูˆู„ูŠุŒ
12:07
the G-20,
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ูˆู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุฉ ุงู„ุนุดุฑูŠู†ุŒ
12:09
on behalf of all humanity.
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ู†ูŠุงุจุฉ ุนู† ุงู„ุจุดุฑูŠุฉ ุฌู…ุนุงุก.
12:11
And imagine further
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ูˆุชุฎูŠู„ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒ
12:12
that all international trade is denominated in this currency --
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ุฃู† ุงู„ุชุฌุงุฑุฉ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุฉ ู‚ุฏ ุชุฎุตุตุช ุจู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ุฉ --
12:17
let's call it "the cosmos,"
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ุฏุนูˆู†ุง ู†ุทู„ู‚ ุนู„ูŠู‡ุง "ุงู„ูƒูˆู†"
12:19
in units of cosmos --
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ููŠ ูˆุญุฏุงุช ุงู„ูƒูˆู†--
12:21
with every government agreeing to be paying into a common fund
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ุชูˆุงูู‚ ูƒู„ ุญูƒูˆู…ุฉ ุฃู† ุชุฏูุน ููŠ ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ุนุงู… ู…ุดุชุฑูƒ
12:26
a sum of cosmos units proportional to the country's trade deficit,
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ู…ุจู„ุบ ู…ู† ูˆุญุฏุงุช ุงู„ูƒูˆู† ูŠุชู†ุงุณุจ ู…ุน ุงู„ุนุฌุฒ ุงู„ุชุฌุงุฑูŠ ู„ู‡ุงุŒ
12:31
or indeed to a country's trade surplus.
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ุฃูˆ ู…ุน ูุงุฆุถ ุงู„ู…ูŠุฒุงู† ุงู„ุชุฌุงุฑูŠ ู„ู‡ุง.
12:35
And imagine that that fund is utilized to invest in green technologies,
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ูˆุชุฎูŠู„ูˆุง ุฅุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ ุงู„ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ู„ู„ุฅุณุชุซู…ุงุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ุชูƒู†ูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠุง ุงู„ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏุฉุŒ
12:40
especially in parts of the world where investment funding is scarce.
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ู„ุง ุณูŠู…ุง ููŠ ุฃุฌุฒุงุก ู…ู† ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุญูŠุซ ู†ูุฏุฑุฉ ุงู„ุชู…ูˆูŠู„ ุงู„ุฅุณุชุซู…ุงุฑูŠ.
12:46
This is not a new idea.
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ู„ูŠุณุช ููƒุฑุฉ ุฌุฏูŠุฏุฉ.
12:48
It's what, effectively, John Maynard Keynes proposed
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ู‡ูŠ ู…ุง ุงู‚ุชุฑุญู‡ ูˆุจูุนุงู„ูŠุฉ "ุฌูˆู† ู…ุงู†ูŠุงุฑุฏ ูƒูŠู†ุฒ"ุŒ
12:51
in 1944 at the Bretton Woods Conference.
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ููŠ ู…ุคุชู…ุฑ ุจุฑูŠุชูˆู† ูˆูˆุฏุฒ ููŠ ุนุงู… 1944.
12:56
The problem is
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ุงู„ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ ู‡ูŠุŒ
12:57
that back then, they didn't have the technology to implement it.
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ุจุงู„ุฑุฌูˆุน ุฅู„ู‰ ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ูˆู‚ุชุŒ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ุงู„ุชูƒู†ูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠุง ู„ุชู†ููŠุฐ ุฐู„ูƒ.
13:00
Now we do,
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ู†ุญู† ู†ู…ู„ูƒู‡ุง ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ
13:01
especially in the context of a reunified political-economic sphere.
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ุฎุงุตุฉ ููŠ ุณูŠุงู‚ ุชูˆุญูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ูŠู† ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ูˆุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ.
13:08
The world that I am describing to you
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ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฃุตูู‡ ู„ูƒู…
13:11
is simultaneously libertarian,
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ู‡ูˆ ููŠ ูˆู‚ุชู ูˆุงุญุฏ: ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠุฉุŒ
13:13
in that it prioritizes empowered individuals,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู…ู† ุฃูˆู„ูˆูŠุงุชู‡ุง ุชู…ูƒูŠู† ุงู„ุฃูุฑุงุฏุŒ
13:18
Marxist,
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ูˆู…ุงุฑูƒุณูŠุฉุŒ
13:19
since it will have confined to the dustbin of history
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ูู…ู†ุฐ ุฃู† ุญูุตุฑุช ุงู„ู…ุงุฑูƒุณูŠุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุฒุจู„ุฉ ุงู„ุชุงุฑูŠุฎ
13:22
the division between capital and labor,
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ุงู„ุฅู†ู‚ุณุงู… ุจูŠู† ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ ูˆุงู„ุนู…ุงู„ุฉุŒ
13:25
and Keynesian,
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ูˆุงู„ู†ุธุฑูŠุฉ ุงู„ูƒูŠู†ุฒูŠุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏุŒ
13:27
global Keynesian.
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ุงู„ูƒูŠู†ุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุฉ.
13:30
But above all else,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ู‚ุจู„ ูƒู„ ุดูŠุกุŒ
13:31
it is a world in which we will be able to imagine an authentic democracy.
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ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ููŠู‡ ุชุฎูŠู„ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุฉ.
13:37
Will such a world dawn?
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ู‡ู„ ุณูŠูƒูˆู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุจุฒูˆุบ ูุฌุฑุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ุŸ
13:40
Or shall we descend into a Matrix-like dystopia?
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ุฃูˆ ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุงู„ู†ุฒูˆู„ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญุถูŠุถ/ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน ุงู„ู…ุฑูŠุฑ ุงู„ูุงุณุฏ - ู…ุงุชุฑูŠูƒุณุŸ
13:44
The answer lies in the political choice that we shall be making collectively.
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ูŠูƒู…ู†ู ุงู„ุฌูˆุงุจ ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุฎุชูŠุงุฑุงุช ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชูŠ ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฅุชุฎุงุฐู‡ุง ุจุดูƒู„ ุฌู…ุงุนูŠ.
13:49
It is our choice,
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ุฅู†ู‡ ุฎูŠุงุฑู†ุงุŒ
13:51
and we'd better make it democratically.
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ูˆู…ู† ุงู„ุฃูุถู„ ู„ู†ุง ุฌุนู„ู‡ ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠู‹ุง.
13:54
Thank you.
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ุดูƒุฑู‹ุง ู„ูƒู….
13:55
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
14:01
Bruno Giussani: Yanis ...
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ ุฌูŠูˆุณุงู†ูŠ: ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ ...
14:03
It was you who described yourself in your bios as a libertarian Marxist.
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ูƒู†ุชูŽ ู‚ุฏ ูˆุตูุชูŽ ู†ูุณูƒ ููŠ ุณูŠุฑุชูƒ ุงู„ุฐุงุชูŠุฉ ุฃู†ูƒ ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠ ู…ุงุฑูƒุณูŠ.
14:10
What is the relevance of Marx's analysis today?
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ู…ุง ู‡ูŠ ุนู„ุงู‚ุฉ ูˆุฃู‡ู…ูŠุฉ ุชุญู„ูŠู„ุงุช ู…ุงุฑูƒุณ ุงู„ูŠูˆู…ุŸ
14:14
Yanis Varoufakis: Well, if there was any relevance in what I just said,
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ูŠุงู†ุณ ููŠุฑูˆูุงูƒูŠุณ: ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฃูŠ ุตู„ุฉ ููŠู…ุง ู‚ู„ุชู‡ ู„ู„ุชูˆ.
14:17
then Marx is relevant.
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ูู…ุงุฑูƒุณ ู‡ูˆ ุฐูˆ ุตู„ุฉ.
14:18
Because the whole point of reunifying the political and economic is --
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ู„ุฃู† ุงู„ู‡ุฏู ุงู„ุฃุณุงุณูŠ ู…ู† ุชูˆุญูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ูŠู† ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ูˆุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠ ู‡ูˆ --
14:22
if we don't do it,
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ุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ู†ูุนู„ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
14:23
then technological innovation is going to create
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ูุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ุณุชูุญุฏูุซ ุงู„ุฅุจุชูƒุงุฑุงุช ุงู„ุชูƒู†ูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠุฉ
14:25
such a massive fall in aggregate demand,
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ุชุฏู†ูŠ ูƒุจูŠุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ุทู„ุจ ุงู„ูƒู„ูŠุŒ
14:27
what Larry Summers refers to as secular stagnation.
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ูˆู‡ูˆ ู…ุง ูŠุดูŠุฑ ู„ู‡ ู„ุงุฑูŠ ุณู…ุฑุฒ ุจุงู„ุฑูƒูˆุฏ ุงู„ุนู„ู…ุงู†ูŠ.
14:32
With this crisis migrating from one part of the world,
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ูˆู…ุน ุฅู†ุชู‚ุงู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃุฒู…ุฉ ู…ู† ุฌุฒุก ูˆุงุญุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ุŒ
14:35
as it is now,
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ูƒู…ุง ู‡ูˆ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ
14:37
it will destabilize not only our democracies,
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ูู„ู† ุชุฒุนุฒุน ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุงุชู†ุง ูู‚ุทุŒ
14:39
but even the emerging world that is not that keen on liberal democracy.
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุญุชู‰ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ู†ุงุดู‰ุก ุงู„ุฐูŠ ู„ุง ูŠุญุฑุต ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชุญุฑุฑูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชู‚ุฏู…ูŠุฉ.
14:44
So if this analysis holds water, then Marx is absolutely relevant.
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ุฅุฐุง ุซุจุช ุตุญุฉ ูˆุณู„ุงู…ุฉ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุชุญู„ูŠู„ุŒ ูุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ูุฅู† ู…ุงุฑูƒุณ ุฐูˆ ุตู„ุฉ ู…ุทู„ู‚ุฉ.
14:48
But so is Hayek,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ูƒุฐู„ูƒ ู‡ูˆ ู‡ุงูŠูƒ - ูุฑูŠุฏุฑูŠุฎ ู‡ุงูŠูƒุŒ
14:49
that's why I'm a libertarian Marxist,
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ู„ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุณุจุจ ุฃู†ุง ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠ ู…ุงุฑูƒุณูŠุŒ
14:51
and so is Keynes,
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ูˆูƒุฐู„ูƒ ู‡ูˆ ูƒูŠู†ุฒุŒ
14:52
so that's why I'm totally confused.
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ุณุจุจ ูุฃู†ุง ู…ุญุชุงุฑ ุชู…ุงู…ุงู‹.
14:54
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
14:56
BG: Indeed, and possibly we are too, now.
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ : ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ ูˆููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน ุฑุจู…ุง ู†ุญู† ุฃูŠุถุงู‹.
14:58
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
14:59
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
15:01
YV: If you are not confused, you are not thinking, OK?
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ู…ุญุชุงุฑุงู‹ุŒ ูุฃู†ุช ู„ุง ุชููƒุฑุŸ
15:04
BG: That's a very, very Greek philosopher kind of thing to say --
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ุฅู†ู‡ุง ู†ูˆุน ู…ู† ุงู„ูู„ุณูุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุฉ ู„ุชู‚ุงู„ --
15:07
YV: That was Einstein, actually --
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุง ุฅูŠู†ุดุชุงูŠู† ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน-
15:09
BG: During your talk you mentioned Singapore and China,
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ู„ู‚ุฏ ุฐูƒุฑุชูŽ ุณู†ุบุงููˆุฑุฉ ูˆุงู„ุตูŠู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุญุฏูŠุซูƒุŒ
15:11
and last night at the speaker dinner,
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ูˆุงู„ู„ูŠู„ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุงุถูŠุฉ ููŠ ุญูู„ ุงู„ุนุดุงุกุŒ
15:13
you expressed a pretty strong opinion about how the West looks at China.
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ุฃุนุฑุจุชูŽ ุนู† ุฑุฃูŠ ู‚ูˆูŠ ุฌุฏู‹ุง ุญูˆู„ ูƒูŠู ูŠู†ุธุฑู ุงู„ุบุฑุจ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุตูŠู†.
15:18
Would you like to share that?
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ู‡ู„ ุชุฑุบุจู ููŠ ู…ุดุงุฑูƒุฉ ุฐู„ูƒุŸ
15:20
YV: Well, there's a great degree of hypocrisy.
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฏุฑุฌุฉ ูƒุจูŠุฑุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ูุงู‚.
15:23
In our liberal democracies, we have a semblance of democracy.
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ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ููŠ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุงุช ุงู„ุชุญุฑุฑูŠุฉ ู…ุง ูŠุดุจู‡ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ.
15:27
It's because we have confined, as I was saying in my talk,
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ู„ุงู†ู‡ ู‚ูŠู‘ุฏู†ุง ูˆุญุตุฑู†ุงุŒ ูƒู…ุง ู‚ู„ุชู ููŠ ุญุฏูŠุซูŠุŒ
15:30
democracy to the political sphere,
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ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุŒ
15:32
while leaving the one sphere where all the action is --
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ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ุชุฑูƒู†ุง ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ูˆุญูŠุฏ ุญูŠุซ ูƒู„ ุงู„ุฃู†ุดุทุฉ ูˆู‡ูˆ--
15:35
the economic sphere --
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ุงู„ู…ุฌุงู„ ุงู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ --
15:36
a completely democracy-free zone.
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ุฎุงู„ู ุชู…ุงู…ุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ.
15:39
In a sense,
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ุจู…ุนู†ู‰ุŒ
15:40
if I am allowed to be provocative,
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ุฅุฐุง ุณูู…ุญูŽ ู„ูŠ ู„ุฃูƒูˆู† ุฅุณุชูุฒุงุฒูŠุงู‹ ู…ูุญุฑุถุงู‹ุŒ
15:43
China today is closer to Britain in the 19th century.
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ูุงู„ุตูŠู† ุงู„ูŠูˆู… ู‡ูŠ ุฃู‚ุฑุจู ุฅู„ู‰ ุจุฑูŠุทุงู†ูŠุง ููŠ ุงู„ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุชุงุณุน ุนุดุฑ.
15:48
Because remember,
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ุชุฐูƒุฑูˆุง ู„ุฃู†ู‡
15:49
we tend to associate liberalism with democracy --
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ู†ุญู† ู†ู…ูŠู„ู ุฅู„ู‰ ุฑุจุท ุงู„ุฑุฃุณู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ --
15:51
that's a mistake, historically.
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ุชุงุฑูŠุฎูŠุงู‹ุŒ ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุฎุทุงู‹
15:53
Liberalism, liberal, it's like John Stuart Mill.
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ุฅู†ู‘ ุงู„ู„ูŠุจุฑุงู„ูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชุญุฑุฑูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชู‚ุฏู…ูŠุฉ ู…ุซู„ ุฌูˆู† ุณุชูŠูˆุงุฑุช ู…ู„.
15:56
John Stuart Mill was particularly skeptical about the democratic process.
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ูƒุงู† ุฌูˆู† ุณุชูŠูˆุฑุงุช ู…ู„ ู…ุชุดูƒูƒู‹ุง ุญูˆู„ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุฏูŠู…ู‚ุฑุงุทูŠุฉ.
16:00
So what you are seeing now in China is a very similar process
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ูู…ุง ุชุฑูˆู†ู‡ ุงู„ุขู† ููŠ ุงู„ุตูŠู† ู‡ูˆ ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ู…ุดุงุจู‡ ุฌุฏู‹ุง
16:06
to the one that we had in Britain during the Industrial Revolution,
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ู„ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุชูŠ ูƒุงู†ุช ู„ุฏู‰ ุจุฑูŠุทุงู†ูŠุง ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุซูˆุฑุฉ ุงู„ุตู†ุงุนูŠุฉุŒ
16:09
especially the transition from the first to the second.
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ูˆู„ุง ุณูŠู‘ู…ุง ููŠ ู…ุฑุญู„ุฉ ุงู„ุชุญูˆู„ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุซุงู†ูŠุฉ.
16:12
And to be castigating China
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ูˆููŠ ุชูˆุฌูŠู‡ ุงู„ุฅู†ุชู‚ุงุฏ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุตูŠู†
16:15
for doing that which the West did in the 19th century,
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ู„ู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ููŠู…ุง ู‚ุงู…ุช ุจู‡ ุญูŠุซ ูุนู„ ุงู„ุบุฑุจ ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ ุงู„ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุชุงุณุน ุนุดุฑุŒ
16:18
smacks of hypocrisy.
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ุตูุนุงุช ุชู†ู…ู ุนู† ู†ูุงู‚.
16:21
BG: I am sure that many people here are wondering about your experience
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ุฃู†ุง ู…ุชุฃูƒุฏ ุจุฃู† ุงู„ุนุฏูŠุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู‡ู†ุง ูŠุชุณุงุกู„ูˆู† ุนู† ุชุฌุฑุจุชูƒ
16:25
as the Finance Minister of Greece earlier this year.
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ูƒูˆุฒูŠุฑ ู…ุงู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู† ููŠ ูˆู‚ุชู ุณุงุจู‚ ู…ู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุณู†ุฉ.
16:27
YV: I knew this was coming.
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ูŠุงู†ุณ: ุนุฑูุชู ุจุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ุณูŠุญุฏุซ.
16:29
BG: Yes.
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ู†ุนู….
16:30
BG: Six months after,
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ุจุนุฏ ุณุชุฉ ุฃุดู‡ุฑุŒ
16:32
how do you look back at the first half of the year?
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ูƒูŠู ุชู†ุธุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ูˆุฑุงุก ููŠ ุงู„ู†ุตู ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ ู…ู† ุงู„ุนุงู…ุŸ
16:35
YV: Extremely exciting, from a personal point of view,
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ู…ู† ูˆุฌู‡ุฉ ู†ุธุฑูŠ ุงู„ุดุฎุตูŠุฉุŒ ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุซูŠุฑุฉ ู„ู„ุบุงูŠุฉุŒ
16:38
and very disappointing,
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ูˆู…ุฎูŠุจุฉ ู„ู„ุขู…ุงู„ ุฌุฏู‹ุฃ.
16:39
because we had an opportunity to reboot the Eurozone.
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ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ุงู„ูุฑุตุฉ ู„ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุชุดุบูŠู„ ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆ.
16:43
Not just Greece, the Eurozone.
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ู„ูŠุณ ูู‚ุท ููŠ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†ุŒ ุจู„ ููŠ ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆ.
16:45
To move away from the complacency
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ุจุนูŠุฏู‹ุง ุนู† ุงู„ุนุฌุฑูุฉ
16:48
and the constant denial that there was a massive --
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ูˆุงู„ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุณุชู…ุฑ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุซูู‚ู„/ุถุฎุงู…ุฉ ---
16:51
and there is a massive architectural fault line
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ูˆูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุดุฑูŠุท ุฎู„ู„ ุจู†ูŠูˆูŠ ุถุฎู…
16:54
going through the Eurozone,
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ูŠู…ุฑู ุนุจุฑ ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆุŒ
16:56
which is threatening, massively, the whole of the European Union process.
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู‡ุฏุฏ ุนู„ู‰ ู†ุทุงู‚ู ูˆุงุณุน ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุชุญุงุฏ ุงู„ุฃุฑูˆุจูŠ ุจุฃูƒู…ู„ู‡.
17:00
We had an opportunity on the basis of the Greek program --
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ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ุงู„ูุฑุตุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุฃุณุงุณ ุงู„ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†ูŠ --
17:04
which by the way,
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ูˆู‡ูˆ ุจุงู„ู…ู†ุงุณุจุฉุŒ
17:05
was the first program to manifest that denial --
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ุงู„ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ ู„ุฅุธู‡ุงุฑ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ --
17:09
to put it right.
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ูˆูˆุถุนู‡ ููŠ ู…ูƒุงู†ู‡ ุงู„ุตุญูŠุญ.
17:11
And, unfortunately,
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ูˆู„ู„ุฃุณู ุงู„ุดุฏูŠุฏุŒ
17:12
the powers in the Eurozone,
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ูุงู„ุณู„ุทุงุช (ุงู„ู‚ูˆู‰) ููŠ ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆุŒ
17:14
in the Eurogroup,
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ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠุฉุŒ
17:16
chose to maintain denial.
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ุฅุฎุชุงุฑุช ุงู„ู…ุญุงูุธุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ.
17:18
But you know what happens.
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ู„ูƒู† ู‡ู„ ุชุนุฑููˆู† ู…ุงุฐุง ูŠุญุฏุซ.
17:19
This is the experience of the Soviet Union.
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ู‡ูŠ ุชุฌุฑุจุฉ ุงู„ุฅุชุญุงุฏ ุงู„ุณูˆููŠุชูŠ.
17:21
When you try to keep alive
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชูุญุงูˆู„ ุฃู† ุชูุจู‚ู ุนู„ู‰ ู‚ูŠุฏ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ
17:23
an economic system that architecturally cannot survive,
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ู†ุธุงู… ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠ ู„ุง ูŠูู…ูƒู† ู„ู‡ ุฃู† ูŠุตู…ุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุงุญูŠุฉ ุงู„ู‡ูŠูƒู„ูŠุฉุŒ
17:28
through political will and through authoritarianism,
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ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุฅุฑุงุฏุฉ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุณู„ุทุฉ ุงู„ุฅุณุชุจุฏุงุฏูŠุฉ
17:31
you may succeed in prolonging it,
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ู‚ุฏ ุชู†ุฌุญ ููŠ ุฅุทุงู„ุฉ ุฃู…ุฏู‡ุŒ
17:32
but when change happens
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูŠุญุฏุซู ุงู„ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ
17:34
it happens very abruptly and catastrophically.
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ูุฅู†ู‡ ูŠุญุฏุซู ุจุดูƒู„ ู…ูุงุฌู‰ุก ูˆูƒุงุฑุซูŠ ุฌุฏู‹ุง.
17:37
BG: What kind of change are you foreseeing?
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ุฃูŠ ู†ูˆุน ู…ู† ุงู„ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ุชุชูˆู‚ุนู‡ุŸ
17:39
YV: Well, there's no doubt
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ุญุณู†ู‹ุงุŒ ู…ู…ุง ู„ุง ุดูƒ ููŠู‡
17:40
that if we don't change the architecture of the Eurozone,
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ุฃู†ู‡ ุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ู†ุบูŠุฑ ุงู„ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ู‡ูŠูƒู„ูŠ ู„ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆุŒ
17:43
the Eurozone has no future.
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ู„ู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆ ู…ุณุชู‚ุจู„.
17:44
BG: Did you make any mistakes when you were Finance Minister?
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ู‡ู„ ู‚ู…ุชูŽ ุจุนู…ู„ ุฃุฎุทุงุก ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูƒู†ุช ูˆุฒูŠุฑุงู‹ ู„ู„ู…ุงู„ูŠุฉุŸ
17:47
YV: Every day.
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ูƒู„ ูŠูˆู….
17:49
BG: For example? YV: Anybody who looks back --
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ุนู„ู‰ ุณุจูŠู„ ุงู„ู…ุซุงู„ุŸ ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ุงูŠ ุดุฎุต ูŠุชุทู„ุน ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ูˆุฑุงุก
17:51
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
17:56
No, but seriously.
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ู„ุงุŒ ูˆู„ูƒู† ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุญู…ู„ ุงู„ุฌุฏ.
17:57
If there's any Minister of Finance, or of anything else for that matter,
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ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฃูŠ ูˆุฒูŠุฑ ู„ู„ู…ุงู„ูŠุฉุŒ ุฃูˆ ุฃูŠ ุดูŠุก ุขุฎุฑ ูŠุฎุตู ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑุŒ
18:01
who tells you after six months in a job,
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠูุฎุจุฑูƒ ุจุนุฏ ุณุชุฉ ุฃุดู‡ุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุธูŠูุฉุŒ
18:03
especially in such a stressful situation,
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ู„ุง ุณูŠู‘ู…ุง ููŠ ู…ุซู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ูˆุถุน ุงู„ู…ุชูˆุชุฑ ุงู„ุดุงู‚ุŒ
18:07
that they have made no mistake, they're dangerous people.
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ุฃู†ู‡ู… ู„ู… ูŠุฑุชูƒุจูˆุง ุฎุทุฃ ุฅุทู„ุงู‚ุงู‹ุŒ ูุฅู†ู‡ู… ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุฎุทูŠุฑูŠู†.
18:09
Of course I made mistakes.
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ุจุงู„ุทุจุนุŒ ู‚ู…ุชู ุจุนู…ู„ ุฃุฎุทุงุก.
ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุฎุทุฃ ุงู„ุฃูƒุจุฑ ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุชูˆู‚ูŠุน ุนู„ู‰ ุทู„ุจ
18:11
The greatest mistake was to sign the application
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18:13
for the extension of a loan agreement
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ู…ู† ุฃุฌู„ ุชู…ุฏูŠุฏ ุฅุชูุงู‚ูŠุฉ ู‚ุฑุถ
18:16
in the end of February.
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ููŠ ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉ ุดุจุงุท/ูุจุฑุงูŠุฑ.
18:17
I was imagining
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ูƒู†ุชู ุฃุชุฎูŠู„
18:18
that there was a genuine interest on the side of the creditors
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ุฃู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฅู‡ุชู…ุงู… ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠ ู…ู† ุฌุงู†ุจ ุงู„ุฏุงุฆู†ูŠู†
18:21
to find common ground.
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ู„ุฅูŠุฌุงุฏ ุฃุฑุถูŠุฉ ู…ุดุชุฑูƒุฉ.
18:23
And there wasn't.
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ูˆู„ู… ุชูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ.
18:24
They were simply interested in crushing our government,
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ูƒุงู†ูˆุง ุจุจุณุงุทุฉ ู…ู‡ุชู…ูŠู† ููŠ ุชุฏู…ูŠุฑ ูˆุณุญู‚ ุญูƒูˆู…ุชู†ุงุŒ
18:27
just because they did not want
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ู„ู…ุฌุฑุฏ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ู„ุง ูŠุฑูŠุฏูˆู†
18:28
to have to deal with the architectural fault lines
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ุงู„ุชุนุงู…ู„ ู…ุน ุฎุทูˆุท ุงู„ุชุตุฏุนุงุช ุงู„ู‡ูŠูƒู„ูŠุฉ "ุงู„ุฅุฏุงุฑูŠุฉ"
18:31
that were running through the Eurozone.
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูƒุงู† ู‚ูŠุฏ ุงู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆ.
18:33
And because they didn't want to admit
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ูˆู„ุฃู†ู‡ู… ู„ู… ูŠุฑุบุจูˆุง ุจุงู„ุฅุนุชุฑุงู
18:35
that for five years they were implementing a catastrophic program in Greece.
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ุฃู†ู‡ู… ูƒุงู†ูˆุง ูˆู„ู…ุฏุฉ ุฎู…ุณุฉ ุณู†ูˆุงุช ูŠูู†ูุฐูˆู† ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌุงู‹ ูƒุงุฑุซูŠุงู‹ ููŠ ุงู„ูŠูˆู†ุงู†.
18:39
We lost one-third of our nominal GDP.
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ู„ู‚ุฏ ุฎุณุฑู†ุง ุซู„ุซ ุงู„ู‚ูŠู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅุณู…ูŠุฉ ู„ู„ู†ุงุชุฌ ุงู„ู…ุญู„ูŠ ุงู„ุฅุฌู…ุงู„ูŠ.
18:42
This is worse than the Great Depression.
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ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุฃุณูˆุฃ ู…ู† ุงู„ูƒุณุงุฏ/ุงู„ุฅู†ู‡ูŠุงุฑ ุงู„ูƒุจูŠุฑ.
18:44
And no one has come clean
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ูˆู„ู… ูŠุนุชุฑู ุฃุญุฏ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฅุทู„ุงู‚
18:45
from the troika of lenders that have been imposing this policy
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ู…ู† ุงู„ู„ุฌู†ุฉ ุงู„ุซู„ุงุซูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ู‚ุฑุถุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชูŠ ูุฑุถุช ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณุฉ
18:48
to say, "This was a colossal mistake."
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ู„ุชู‚ูˆู„: "ูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฎุทุฃ ูุงุฏุญุงู‹".
18:51
BG: Despite all this,
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ูˆุฑุบู… ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐุงุŒ
18:52
and despite the aggressiveness of the discussion,
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ูˆุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฑุบู… ู…ู† ุนุฏูˆุงู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุงุด.
ุชุจุฏูˆ ุจุงู‚ูŠุงู‹ ุชู…ุงู…ุงู‹ ููŠ ุชุฃูŠูŠุฏูƒ ู„ู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠู†.
18:55
you seem to be remaining quite pro-European.
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18:57
YV: Absolutely.
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ.
18:58
Look, my criticism of the European Union and the Eurozone
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ุฃู†ุธุฑุŒ ุฅู†ุชู‚ุงุฏูŠ ู„ู„ุฅุชุญุงุฏ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠ ูˆู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆ
19:02
comes from a person who lives and breathes Europe.
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ุชุฃุชูŠ ู…ู† ุดุฎุต ูŠุนูŠุด ูˆูŠุชู†ูุณ ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจุง.
19:07
My greatest fear is that the Eurozone will not survive.
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ุฎูˆููŠ ุงู„ุฃูƒุจุฑ ู‡ูˆ ุฃู† ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆุฑูˆ ู„ู† ุชุจู‚ูŽ ุนู„ู‰ ู‚ูŠุฏ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ.
19:11
Because if it doesn't,
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ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ุฅุฐุง ุญุฏุซ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
19:12
the centrifugal forces that will be unleashed
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ุณุชู†ุทู„ู‚ ู‚ูˆู‰ ุงู„ุทุฑุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฑูƒุฒูŠ
19:15
will be demonic,
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ูˆุณุชูƒูˆู† ุดูŠุทุงู†ูŠุฉุŒ
19:17
and they will destroy the European Union.
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ูˆุณูˆู ูŠุฏู…ุฑูˆู† ุงู„ุฅุชุญุงุฏ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุฑุจูŠ.
19:19
And that will be catastrophic not just for Europe
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ูˆุณูŠูƒูˆู† ุฐู„ูƒ ูƒุงุฑุซูŠุงู‹ ู„ูŠุณ ูู‚ุท ู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจุง
19:21
but for the whole global economy.
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ู„ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠ ูƒูƒู„.
19:23
We are probably the largest economy in the world.
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ู†ุญู†ู ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃุฑุญุฌ ุฃูƒุจุฑ ุฅู‚ุชุตุงุฏ ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู….
19:27
And if we allow ourselves
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ูˆุฅุฐุง ุณู…ุญู†ุง ู„ุฃู†ูุณู†ุง
19:29
to fall into a route of the postmodern 1930's,
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ู„ู„ูˆู‚ูˆุน ููŠ ุทุฑูŠู‚ ู…ุง ุญุฏุซ ููŠ ูˆู‚ุช ู„ุงุญู‚ ููŠ ุณู†ูˆุงุช ุงู„ุซู„ุงุซูŠู†ุงุช ู…ู† ุงู„ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ู…ุงุถูŠุŒ
19:32
which seems to me to be what we are doing,
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุจุฏูˆ ู„ูŠ ุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุง ู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจู‡ ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ
19:34
then that will be detrimental
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ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ุณูŠูƒูˆู† ุถุงุฑุงู‹
19:36
to the future of Europeans and non-Europeans alike.
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ู„ู…ุณุชู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠู† ูˆุบูŠุฑ ุงู„ุฃูˆุฑูˆุจูŠู† ุนู„ู‰ ุญุฏู ุณูˆุงุก.
19:40
BG: We definitely hope you are wrong on that point.
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ุจุฑูˆู†ูˆ: ู†ุฃู…ู„ ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ุฎุงุทุฆุงู‹ ุจุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุทุฉ.
19:42
Yanis, thank you for coming to TED.
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ ุดูƒุฑู‹ุง ู„ูƒ ุงู„ุญุถูˆุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ TED.
19:44
YV: Thank you.
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ูŠุงู†ูŠุณ: ุดูƒุฑู‹ุง ู„ูƒู….
19:45
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
ุญูˆู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน

ุณูŠู‚ุฏู… ู„ูƒ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน ู…ู‚ุงุทุน ููŠุฏูŠูˆ YouTube ุงู„ู…ููŠุฏุฉ ู„ุชุนู„ู… ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ. ุณุชุฑู‰ ุฏุฑูˆุณ ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠุชู… ุชุฏุฑูŠุณู‡ุง ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ู…ุฏุฑุณูŠู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏุฑุฌุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ู…ู† ุฌู…ูŠุน ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…. ุงู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุนุฑูˆุถุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ูƒู„ ุตูุญุฉ ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู…ู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ. ูŠุชู… ุชู…ุฑูŠุฑ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุงุช ุจุงู„ุชุฒุงู…ู† ู…ุน ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ. ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ุฃูŠ ุชุนู„ูŠู‚ุงุช ุฃูˆ ุทู„ุจุงุช ุŒ ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ุจู†ุง ุจุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ู‡ุฐุง.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7