Ernesto Sirolli: Want to help someone? Shut up and listen!

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

譯者: Geoff Chen 審譯者: Crystal Tu

Everything I do, and everything I do professionally --

我所做的一切，

my life -- has been shaped

所有工作、生活的一切， 已經在我年輕時

by seven years of work as a young man in Africa.

在非洲工作的七年裡所形塑而成。

From 1971 to 1977 --

從 1971 年到 1977 年間

I look young, but I'm not — (Laughter) --

我看起來年輕，但其實不然。（笑聲）

I worked in Zambia, Kenya, Ivory Coast, Algeria, Somalia,

我在尚比亞、 肯亞、 象牙海岸、 阿爾及利亞、和索馬利亞工作，

in projects of technical cooperation with African countries.

與非洲國家共同進行技術合作專案

I worked for an Italian NGO,

我為一個義大利非政府組織工作

and every single project that we set up in Africa

然而，我們在非洲建立的每一個專案

failed.

都失敗了。

And I was distraught.

我當時相當懊惱，

I thought, age 21, that we Italians were good people

我那時 21 歲，以為我們義大利人都是好人，

and we were doing good work in Africa.

以為我們在非洲做善事；

Instead, everything we touched we killed.

相反地，任何被我們碰到的事情都搞砸了。

Our first project, the one that has inspired my first book,

我們第一個專案， 那激勵我寫出第一本書的專案——

"Ripples from the Zambezi,"

《尚比西河的微瀾》（Ripples from the Zambezi）——

was a project where we Italians

是一個由我們義大利人所策劃的專案，

decided to teach Zambian people how to grow food.

這專案的目的是要 教尚比亞人如何種植糧食。

So we arrived there with Italian seeds in southern Zambia

所以我們帶著義大利的種子 來到尚比亞南方，

in this absolutely magnificent valley

在這壯闊的山谷

going down to the Zambezi River,

沿著河直下到尚比西河，

and we taught the local people how to grow Italian tomatoes

然後我們教當地人種植義大利番茄、

and zucchini and ...

還有櫛瓜......

And of course the local people had absolutely no interest

當然，當地人對那一點興趣都沒有，

in doing that, so we paid them to come and work,

所以我們付他們薪水，希望他們來工作，

and sometimes they would show up. (Laughter)

然後，他們偶爾會出現一下。（笑聲）

And we were amazed that the local people,

我們當時覺得當地人很妙，

in such a fertile valley, would not have any agriculture.

身在這肥沃的山谷中，卻沒有任何農作物，

But instead of asking them how come they were not

但我們沒有問他們 為什麼他們不種植任何作物，

growing anything, we simply said, "Thank God we're here." (Laughter)

我們就只是說：「感謝上帝，我們在這裡。」（笑聲）

"Just in the nick of time to save the Zambian people from starvation."

「我們正好在這關鍵時刻， 將尚比亞人民從饑餓中解救出來。」

And of course, everything in Africa grew beautifully.

當然，在非洲，所有作物都長得很漂亮，

We had these magnificent tomatoes. In Italy, a tomato

我們有這些超棒的番茄，在義大利

would grow to this size. In Zambia, to this size.

番茄是長這麼大的；而在尚比亞，番茄也是這麼大。

And we could not believe, and we were telling the Zambians,

我們不相信，我們告訴尚比亞人：

"Look how easy agriculture is."

「看，農業是多麼簡單。」

When the tomatoes were nice and ripe and red,

後來，當番茄漂亮了，成熟了，變紅了，

overnight, some 200 hippos came out from the river

一夜之間，大約有兩百隻河馬 從河裡跑出來

and they ate everything. (Laughter)

把它們全吃完了。（笑聲）

And we said to the Zambians, "My God, the hippos!"

我們當時對尚比亞人說： 「噢上帝啊，那些河馬！」

And the Zambians said, "Yes, that's why we have no agriculture here." (Laughter)

尚比亞人說：「是啊，這就是爲什麽 我們這兒沒有農業。」（笑聲）

"Why didn't you tell us?""You never asked."

「你們為什麼不告訴我們？」 「你們從來沒問過。」

I thought it was only us Italians blundering around Africa,

我那時以為，只有我們義大利人 在非洲捅出嘍子而已，

but then I saw what the Americans were doing,

但後來，我看看美國人做的事，

what the English were doing, what the French were doing,

看看英國人做的事， 再看看法國人做的事，

and after seeing what they were doing,

看完他們所做的後，

I became quite proud of our project in Zambia.

我開始對我們在尚比亞的計劃感到自豪了。

Because, you see, at least we fed the hippos.

因為，嘿，至少我們喂飽了那些河馬！

You should see the rubbish — (Applause) --

你們應該看看我們那些破爛貨 （掌聲）——

You should see the rubbish that we have bestowed

你們應該看看，我們提供給 那些毫無戒心的非洲人

on unsuspecting African people.

的那些破爛貨，

You want to read the book,

你們想要讀這本書的話，

read "Dead Aid," by Dambisa Moyo,

可以讀《無用的援助》（Dead Aid）， 作者是 Dambisa Moyo，

Zambian woman economist.

尚比亞女經濟學家。

The book was published in 2009.

這本書出版於 2009 年。

We Western donor countries have given the African continent

我們西方援助國，在過去五十年來，

two trillion American dollars in the last 50 years.

已經援助了非洲大陸兩兆美元。

I'm not going to tell you the damage that that money has done.

我今天不是要告訴你們 這筆錢所造成的損害，

Just go and read her book.

直接去讀她的書吧。

Read it from an African woman, the damage that we have done.

讀讀那非洲女性所寫的書， 瞭解我們所造成的傷害。

We Western people are imperialist, colonialist missionaries,

我們西方人是帝國主義者、殖民者和傳教士，

and there are only two ways we deal with people:

我們只用兩種方法對付人：

We either patronize them, or we are paternalistic.

要麼以恩人自居，資助（patronize）他們， 不然便一派家長式（paternalistic）的統治作風。

The two words come from the Latin root "pater,"

這兩個字來自拉丁文字根 「pater」

which means "father."

意指「父親」，

But they mean two different things.

但它們意味著兩種不同的東西。

Paternalistic, I treat anybody from a different culture

家長式（paternalistic）的統治作風，意味著 我對待任何不同文化背景的人

as if they were my children. "I love you so much."

就如同他們是我的孩子， 「我非常愛你們。」

Patronizing, I treat everybody from another culture

以恩人自居的資助（patronize），意味著 我對待任何不同文化背景的人

as if they were my servants.

如同他們是我的僕人，

That's why the white people in Africa are called "bwana," boss.

這就是為什麼，在非洲， 白人被稱為「bwana」，老闆。

I was given a slap in the face reading a book,

我在讀這本書時， 臉上像是被賞了一記耳光。

"Small is Beautiful," written by Schumacher, who said,

「小即是美」，Schumacher 曾這麼寫道，

above all in economic development, if people

他說，在經濟發展上，如果人民

do not wish to be helped, leave them alone.

不想被幫助，那就讓他們自己來；

This should be the first principle of aid.

這應該作為援助的第一項原則，

The first principle of aid is respect.

援助的第一項原則是尊重。

This morning, the gentleman who opened this conference

今天早上，在這會議中 第一位演講的先生

lay a stick on the floor, and said,

把一根棍子擺在地上，他問：

"Can we -- can you imagine a city

「我們能夠想像，或者，你們能夠想像

that is not neocolonial?"

哪一座城市不是新殖民主義的嗎？」

I decided when I was 27 years old

我在 27 歲的時候決定

to only respond to people,

只想回應人群，

and I invented a system called Enterprise Facilitation,

我發明了一個叫做 企業促進（Enterprise Facilitation）的系統，

where you never initiate anything,

在那，你永遠不須自行創立任何專案，

you never motivate anybody, but you become a servant

你永遠無須激勵任何人，但你會成為

of the local passion, the servant of local people

在地熱情的僕人， 當地人的僕人，

who have a dream to become a better person.

而這些人有夢想： 他們希望成為更好的人。

So what you do -- you shut up.

所以，你們要做的就是——閉上嘴。

You never arrive in a community with any ideas,

你永遠不要帶著 任何想法抵達一個社區，

and you sit with the local people.

而是與當地居民一同坐下來。

We don't work from offices.

我們不在辦公室裡頭談事，

We meet at the cafe. We meet at the pub.

而是在咖啡廳見面， 我們在酒吧見面，

We have zero infrastructure.

我們沒有任何基礎設施。

And what we do, we become friends,

我們所做的，就是變成朋友，

and we find out what that person wants to do.

去弄清楚那人想做什麼。

The most important thing is passion.

最重要的事，是熱情，

You can give somebody an idea.

你可以給某人一個點子，

If that person doesn't want to do it,

但如果那人不想做，

what are you going to do?

你能怎麼辦？

The passion that the person has for her own growth

對自己的成長感到熱情

is the most important thing.

才是最重要的事。

The passion that that man has for his own personal growth

人們為自己個人成長的熱情

is the most important thing.

才是最重要的。

And then we help them to go and find the knowledge,

這樣我們才能協助他們發現知識，

because nobody in the world can succeed alone.

因為世上沒人能夠獨自成功。

The person with the idea may not have the knowledge,

有點子的人不見得擁有知識，

but the knowledge is available.

但知識就在那，信手拈來即可。

So years and years ago, I had this idea:

所以許多年以前， 我有了這個想法：

Why don't we, for once, instead of arriving in the community

為什麼我們不就試試看一次，就這麼一次， 我們不要跑到那裡告訴人們應該做什麼，

to tell people what to do, why don't, for once,

為何不試試看，就這麼一次，

listen to them? But not in community meetings.

聽取他們的意見？但不是在社區會議裡。

Let me tell you a secret.

讓我告訴你一個秘密：

There is a problem with community meetings.

社區會議有一個問題，

Entrepreneurs never come,

企業家是永遠不會來的，

and they never tell you, in a public meeting,

他們永遠不會在公開會議中告訴你，

what they want to do with their own money,

他們想要怎麼用自己的錢做什麼，

what opportunity they have identified.

他們永遠不會在那裡 告訴你他們發現了什麼機會。

So planning has this blind spot.

所以，計劃存在著這個盲點。

The smartest people in your community you don't even know,

你甚至不知道 你社區中最聰明的人是誰，

because they don't come to your public meetings.

因為他們不會跑來參加你的公開會議。

What we do, we work one-on-one,

我們怎麼做呢？我們一對一地見面，

and to work one-on-one, you have to create

為了能一對一地工作，你必須建立

a social infrastructure that doesn't exist.

一個不曾存在的社會基礎設施，

You have to create a new profession.

你必須創造一種新的專業，

The profession is the family doctor of enterprise,

這個專業是企業的家庭醫生，

the family doctor of business, who sits with you

商業的家庭醫生， 他和你一起坐在一塊，

in your house, at your kitchen table, at the cafe,

在你家裡、在你廚房桌邊、在咖啡館，

and helps you find the resources to transform your passion

幫助你尋找資源，將你的熱情

into a way to make a living.

轉化為一種謀生方式。

I started this as a tryout in Esperance, in Western Australia.

我在西澳大利亞的 Esperance 開始嘗試這麼做，

I was a doing a Ph.D. at the time,

我當時正在攻讀博士學位，

trying to go away from this patronizing bullshit

正試著拋棄那家長式的連篇廢話，

that we arrive and tell you what to do.

那些廢話就是：我們到達當地，告訴你們要做什麼。

And so what I did in Esperance that first year

所以我在 Esperance 第一年所做的

was to just walk the streets, and in three days

就只是逛大街，一連逛三天，

I had my first client, and I helped this first guy

我遇到第一個客戶，我幫了這位老兄，

who was smoking fish from a garage, was a Maori guy,

這位老兄在車庫裡頭熏魚，他是毛利人，

and I helped him to sell to the restaurant in Perth,

我幫他把魚賣到 Perth 的餐廳，

to get organized, and then the fishermen came to me to say,

幫他管理這些，然後漁民跑來跟我說：

"You the guy who helped Maori? Can you help us?"

「你就是那個幫助毛利人的先生？ 你能協助我們嗎?」

And I helped these five fishermen to work together

然後我幫助這五個漁夫， 幫助他們他們一起合作，

and get this beautiful tuna not to the cannery in Albany

我們不把這漂亮的鮪魚 以每一公斤六十美分的價格 賣到 Albany 的罐頭工廠，

for 60 cents a kilo, but we found a way

而是，我們找到新方式，把這魚，

to take the fish for sushi to Japan for 15 dollars a kilo,

以每一公斤十五美元 賣到日本做壽司。

and the farmers came to talk to me, said,

後來，農夫也前來跟我說：

"Hey, you helped them. Can you help us?"

「嘿，你幫了他們。你也能幫我們嗎?」

In a year, I had 27 projects going on,

一年下來，我手上有了二十七個專案，

and the government came to see me to say,

接著，政府也來找我，問：

"How can you do that?

「你是怎麼做到的？

How can you do — ?" And I said, "I do something very, very, very difficult.

你是怎麼做到的？」我說： 「我所做的事非常、 非常、 非常困難——

I shut up, and listen to them." (Laughter)

我閉上嘴，我聆聽他們的意見。」（笑聲）

So — (Applause) —

所以 ，（掌聲）

So the government says, "Do it again." (Laughter)

所以，政府說：「那就繼續做。」（笑聲）

We've done it in 300 communities around the world.

我們已經在世界各地 三百個社區中從事這些專案了，

We have helped to start 40,000 businesses.

我們協助了四萬個創業計劃。

There is a new generation of entrepreneurs

有些新一代的企業家

who are dying of solitude.

死於孤獨，

Peter Drucker, one of the greatest management consultants in history,

彼得 · 杜拉克，歷史上最重要的管理顧問之一，

died age 96, a few years ago.

幾年前過世了，九十六歲，

Peter Drucker was a professor of philosophy

彼得 · 杜拉克在從商以前

before becoming involved in business,

是一位是哲學教授，

and this is what Peter Drucker says:

而這是彼得 · 杜拉克曾經說過的話：

"Planning is actually incompatible

「規劃，事實上，

with an entrepreneurial society and economy."

是和創新社會與經濟不相容的。」

Planning is the kiss of death of entrepreneurship.

「規劃是創業精神的死亡之吻。」

So now you're rebuilding Christchurch

所以，你現在是在重建基督城，

without knowing what the smartest people in Christchurch

然而卻不知道那些在基督城中

want to do with their own money and their own energy.

最聰明的人想要用自己的錢 和動力做什麽事。

You have to learn how to get these people

你必須學會如何接近這些人

to come and talk to you.

讓他們跑來和你談談，

You have to offer them confidentiality, privacy,

你必須為他們保密機密，尊重隱私，

you have to be fantastic at helping them,

你必須想要幫助他們，

and then they will come, and they will come in droves.

然後他們就會來， 他們會成群結隊地來找你。

In a community of 10,000 people, we get 200 clients.

在一個有一萬人的的社群裡， 我們得到了兩百多個客戶，

Can you imagine a community of 400,000 people,

你可以想像一個有四十萬人的社區

the intelligence and the passion?

裡頭所擁有的聰明才智和熱情嗎？

Which presentation have you applauded the most this morning?

今早的演說，你們覺得那個最棒？

Local, passionate people. That's who you have applauded.

在地的、充滿熱情的人， 這些就是你們為之鼓掌的人。

So what I'm saying is that

所以，我的意思是，

entrepreneurship is where it's at.

這就是創業精神的所在。

We are at the end of the first industrial revolution --

我們正處於第一次工業革命的終點，

nonrenewable fossil fuels, manufacturing --

那些不可再生的化石燃料與製造業——

and all of a sudden, we have systems which are not sustainable.

突然間，我們的系統變得無法永續，

The internal combustion engine is not sustainable.

內燃引擎是無法永續的，

Freon way of maintaining things is not sustainable.

用氯氟烴作為穩定劑也是無法永續的，

What we have to look at is at how we

我們必須要研究如何在

feed, cure, educate, transport, communicate

糧食、 醫療、 教育、交通、和通信領域上

for seven billion people in a sustainable way.

以永續的方式為七十億人服務。

The technologies do not exist to do that.

目前的科技無法做到這一點。

Who is going to invent the technology

誰會發明綠色革命的科技？

for the green revolution? Universities? Forget about it!

大學嗎？別指望它 ！

Government? Forget about it!

政府嗎？算了吧 ！

It will be entrepreneurs, and they're doing it now.

這將會是企業家，而他們現在就在作這件事。

There's a lovely story that I read in a futurist magazine

許多年前，我在一本關於未來學家的雜誌裡

many, many years ago.

讀到一篇可愛的故事，

There was a group of experts who were invited

在 1860 年，有一批專家

to discuss the future of the city of New York in 1860.

受邀討論紐約市的未來，

And in 1860, this group of people came together,

在 1860 年，這群人聚在一起，

and they all speculated about what would happen

猜測一百多年後

to the city of New York in 100 years,

紐約會發生什麼事，

and the conclusion was unanimous:

他們得出的結論是一致的：

The city of New York would not exist in 100 years.

一百年後，紐約會消失。

Why? Because they looked at the curve and said,

為什麼呢？因為他們觀察曲線，說，

if the population keeps growing at this rate,

如果人口按照這個速度不斷增加，

to move the population of New York around,

那麼在紐約，運送這些市民將需要

they would have needed six million horses,

六百萬匹馬，

and the manure created by six million horses

而這六百萬匹馬的糞便

would be impossible to deal with.

將無法處理，

They were already drowning in manure. (Laughter)

人們最後都會淹沒在糞便中。（笑聲）

So 1860, they are seeing this dirty technology

所以 1860 年，他們認為這種骯髒的技術

that is going to choke the life out of New York.

會使紐約隕歿。

So what happens? In 40 years' time, in the year 1900,

所以後來怎麼了？四十年後，1900 年，

in the United States of America, there were 1,001

美國有了 1001 家

car manufacturing companies -- 1,001.

汽車製造公司 — — 1001。

The idea of finding a different technology

發掘不同的技術的點子

had absolutely taken over,

成為主流，

and there were tiny, tiny little factories in backwaters.

當時在荒僻的地區出現了小工廠，

Dearborn, Michigan. Henry Ford.

迪爾伯恩，密西根州。亨利 · 福特。

However, there is a secret to work with entrepreneurs.

然而，與企業家一起工作，有個秘訣，

First, you have to offer them confidentiality.

首先，你要為他們提供保密性，

Otherwise they don't come and talk to you.

否則他們不會來和你談。

Then you have to offer them absolute, dedicated,

接著，你要為他們提供絕對的、專屬於他們的

passionate service to them.

熱情服務。

And then you have to tell them the truth about entrepreneurship.

然後你必須告訴他們 有關創業精神的道理。

The smallest company, the biggest company,

無論最小或最大的公司

has to be capable of doing three things beautifully:

都要能夠完成三件事：

The product that you want to sell has to be fantastic,

你銷售的產品必須非常棒，

you have to have fantastic marketing,

你必須有絕佳的行銷手段，

and you have to have tremendous financial management.

你必須要優異的財務管理。

Guess what?

你們知道嗎？

We have never met a single human being

我們在這世上，從未見過有人

in the world who can make it, sell it and look after the money.

可以就只是做出成品， 賣掉它，然後拿到錢。

It doesn't exist.

這並不存在，

This person has never been born.

這個人從未來到這世上。

We've done the research, and we have looked

我們做過研究，研究過

at the 100 iconic companies of the world --

世上一百家指標性企業——

Carnegie, Westinghouse, Edison, Ford,

卡內基、 西屋、 愛迪生、 福特、

all the new companies, Google, Yahoo.

還有所有新公司，谷歌、雅虎——

There's only one thing that all the successful companies

在所有這些成功的企業中

in the world have in common, only one:

只有一個共同之處：

None were started by one person.

它們都不是由一個人開始的。

Now we teach entrepreneurship to 16-year-olds

我們教年僅 16 歲的年輕人如何創業

in Northumberland, and we start the class

在 Northumberland

by giving them the first two pages of Richard Branson's autobiography,

從 Richard Branson 的自傳前兩頁教起，

and the task of the 16-year-olds is to underline,

而那些 16 歲年輕人的任務是

in the first two pages of Richard Branson's autobiography

在 Richard Branson 自傳的前兩頁畫線，

how many times Richard uses the word "I"

畫出 Richard Branson 使用多少次「我」，

and how many times he uses the word "we."

還有他使用「我們」多少次。

Never the word "I," and the word "we" 32 times.

一個「我」都沒有，但「我們」這一詞卻用了 32 次，

He wasn't alone when he started.

他創業時不是獨自一人的，

Nobody started a company alone. No one.

沒有人獨自一人創業，從來沒有，

So we can create the community

因此，我們可以成立一個社區

where we have facilitators who come from a small business background

在那，我們有擁有 小型企業背景的協助人

sitting in cafes, in bars, and your dedicated buddies

坐在咖啡館和酒吧， 作為你的好友，

who will do to you, what somebody did for this gentleman

會幫助你，

who talks about this epic,

會談論這些計劃，

somebody who will say to you, "What do you need?

有人會跟你說：「你需要什麼？

What can you do? Can you make it?

你能做什麼？你能做到嗎？

Okay, can you sell it? Can you look after the money?"

好，你能銷售它嗎？ 你能管理財務嗎？」

"Oh, no, I cannot do this.""Would you like me to find you somebody?"

「哦，不，我不能。」 「你要我幫你找人嗎？」

We activate communities.

我們讓社區動起來。

We have groups of volunteers supporting the Enterprise Facilitator

我們有支持企業協助人的志工團體

to help you to find resources and people

會幫你找資源和人

and we have discovered that the miracle

我們發現，透過當地人的聰明才智

of the intelligence of local people is such

的絕妙之處就在於，

that you can change the culture and the economy

你可以透過汲取當地人的

of this community just by capturing the passion,

熱情、能量、和想像力

the energy and imagination of your own people.

來改變這個社區的文化與經濟。

Thank you. (Applause)

謝謝。（掌聲）