How do you explain consciousness? | David Chalmers

Translator: Andreja Benčina Reviewer: Nika Kotnik

Right now

Prav zdaj

you have a movie playing inside your head.

se v vaši glavi vrti film.

It's an amazing multi-track movie.

Je neverjeten film.

It has 3D vision and surround sound

Ima 3D grafiko in prostorski zvok

for what you're seeing and hearing right now,

za tisto, kar vidite in slišite prav zdaj,

but that's just the start of it.

ampak to je šele začetek.

Your movie has smell and taste and touch.

Vaš film omogoča tudi vonj in okus in dotik.

It has a sense of your body,

Podaja vse občutke vašega telesa,

pain, hunger, orgasms.

bolečino, lakoto, orgazme.

It has emotions,

Vsebuje čustva; jezo in srečo.

anger and happiness.

It has memories, like scenes from your childhood

Kaže spomine, kot so podobe iz vašega otroštva,

playing before you.

ki se vrtijo pred vami.

And it has this constant voiceover narrative

In ima stalni komentar,

in your stream of conscious thinking.

ki se odvija skupaj s tokom vaše zavesti.

At the heart of this movie is you

Zvezda tega filma ste vi,

experiencing all this directly.

ki vse to neposredno izkušate.

This movie is your stream of consciousness,

Ta film je vaš tok zavesti,

the subject of experience

zaznavanje lastnega uma in sveta.

of the mind and the world.

Consciousness is one of the fundamental facts

Zavest je eno od poglavitnih dejstev človeškega obstoja.

of human existence.

Each of us is conscious.

Vsak od nas se zaveda.

We all have our own inner movie,

Vsakemu od nas se vrti notranji film,

you and you and you.

vam in vam in vam.

There's nothing we know about more directly.

Ničesar ne poznamo bolj neposredno od zavesti.

At least, I know about my consciousness directly.

Vsaj o svoji zavesti vem neposredno.

I can't be certain that you guys are conscious.

Ne morem zares vedeti, ali se vi zavedate.

Consciousness also is what makes life worth living.

Zaradi zavesti se nam zdi življenje vredno živeti.

If we weren't conscious, nothing in our lives

Brez zavesti nič v našem življenju ne bi imelo pomena ali vrednosti.

would have meaning or value.

But at the same time, it's the most

Hkrati pa je to najskrivnostnejši pojav v vesolju.

mysterious phenomenon in the universe.

Why are we conscious?

Zakaj se zavedamo?

Why do we have these inner movies?

Zakaj gledamo te notranje filme?

Why aren't we just robots

Zakaj nismo le roboti,

who process all this input,

ki samo obdelujejo vse te podatke,

produce all that output,

in samo proizvajajo vse te reči,

without experiencing the inner movie at all?

ne da bi ta notranji film zares izkusili?

Right now, nobody knows the answers

Ta trenutek nihče ne ve odgovora na ta vprašanja.

to those questions.

I'm going to suggest that to integrate consciousness

Menim, da bi za vključitev zavesti v znanost,

into science, some radical ideas may be needed.

potrebovali nekaj res radikalnih idej.

Some people say a science of consciousness

Nekateri menijo, da je znanost o zavesti povsem nemogoča.

is impossible.

Science, by its nature, is objective.

Znanost je, po svoji naravi, objektivna.

Consciousness, by its nature, is subjective.

Zavest je, po svoji naravi, subjektivna.

So there can never be a science of consciousness.

Zato nikoli ne more biti znanosti o zavesti.

For much of the 20th century, that view held sway.

Večino dvajsetega stoletja se to mnenje ni spremenilo.

Psychologists studied behavior objectively,

Psihologi so objektivno preučevali vedenje,

neuroscientists studied the brain objectively,

nevroznanstveniki so objektivno preučevali možgane,

and nobody even mentioned consciousness.

in nihče ni zavesti niti omenil.

Even 30 years ago, when TED got started,

Celo pred tridesetimi leti, ko se je oblikoval TED,

there was very little scientific work

je bilo opravljenih zelo malo raziskav na področju zavesti.

on consciousness.

Now, about 20 years ago,

Pred približno dvajsetimi leti,

all that began to change.

se je vse to začelo spreminjati.

Neuroscientists like Francis Crick

Nevroznanstveniki, kot Francis Crick,

and physicists like Roger Penrose

in fiziki, kot Roger Penrose,

said now is the time for science

so dejali, da je sedaj čas, da znanost napade zavest.

to attack consciousness.

And since then, there's been a real explosion,

In od tedaj imamo pravo eksplozijo,

a flowering of scientific work

razcvet znanstvenih raziskav na področju zavesti.

on consciousness.

And this work has been wonderful. It's been great.

In te raziskave so bile čudovite. Bile so odlične.

But it also has some fundamental

A so do sedaj imele v sebi tudi nekaj temeljnih omejitev.

limitations so far.

The centerpiece

Glavni del znanosti o zavesti v zadnjih letih

of the science of consciousness in recent years

has been the search for correlations,

je bil iskanje medsebojnih povezav,

correlations between certain areas of the brain

medsebojnih povezav med določenimi deli možganov

and certain states of consciousness.

in določenimi stanji zavesti.

Nekaj takih raziskav smo videli s strani Nancy Kanwisher

We saw some of this kind of work

from Nancy Kanwisher and the wonderful work

she presented just a few minutes ago.

kot je tudi čudovita raziskava,

ki jo je predstavila pred nekaj minutami.

Now we understand much better, for example,

Zdaj veliko bolje razumemo tiste dele možganov,

the kinds of brain areas that go along with

ki sodelujejo pri zavestnih izkušnjah,

the conscious experience of seeing faces

kot so gledanje obrazov

or of feeling pain

ali občutenje bolečine,

or of feeling happy.

ali biti vesel.

But this is still a science of correlations.

A to je še vedno znanost medsebojnih povezav.

It's not a science of explanations.

Ni znanost razlag.

We know that these brain areas

Vemo, da ta območja možganov

go along with certain kinds of conscious experience,

sodelujejo pri določenih zavestnih izkušnjah,

but we don't know why they do.

a ne vemo, zakaj.

I like to put this by saying

To rad opišem tako:

that this kind of work from neuroscience

da to delo nevroznanstvenikov

odgovarja na nekatera vprašanja, ki jih imamo o zavesti.

is answering some of the questions

we want answered about consciousness,

the questions about what certain brain areas do

O tem, kaj delajo določeni deli možganov

and what they correlate with.

in s čim so povezani.

But in a certain sense, those are the easy problems.

A z drugega vidika, so to lahki problemi.

No knock on the neuroscientists.

Ne podcenjujem nevroznanstvenikov.

There are no truly easy problems with consciousness.

Ni zares lahkih vprašanj na področju zavesti.

But it doesn't address the real mystery

A to se ne dotika prave skrivnosti,

at the core of this subject:

ki je v središču te tematike:

why is it that all that physical processing in a brain

zakaj sploh mora vso fizično delovanje v možganih

should be accompanied by consciousness at all?

spremljati tudi zavest?

Why is there this inner subjective movie?

Zakaj sploh obstaja ta subjektivni notranji film?

Right now, we don't really have a bead on that.

Ta trenutek se nam sploh ne sanja, zakaj.

And you might say,

In lahko bi rekli,

let's just give neuroscience a few years.

pustimo nevroznanosti nekaj let.

It'll turn out to be another emergent phenomenon

Izkazalo se bo, da je to še en nastajajoč pojav,

like traffic jams, like hurricanes,

kot prometni zamaški, kot orkanske nevihte,

kot življenje in bomo že našli odgovor.

like life, and we'll figure it out.

The classical cases of emergence

Klasični primeri nastajanja,

are all cases of emergent behavior,

so vsi primeri nastajajočega vedenja,

kako se obnaša prometni zastoj,

how a traffic jam behaves,

how a hurricane functions,

kako deluje orkanska nevihta,

how a living organism reproduces

kako se razmnožuje živ organizem

and adapts and metabolizes,

in kako se prilagaja in presnavlja,

all questions about objective functioning.

vsa so vprašanja o objektivnem delovanju.

You could apply that to the human brain

To bi lahko prenesli na človeške možgane,

za razlago nekaterih vedenj

in explaining some of the behaviors

and the functions of the human brain

in funkcij človeških možganov

as emergent phenomena:

kot nastajajočih pojavov:

how we walk, how we talk, how we play chess,

kako hodimo, kako govorimo, kako igramo šah,

vsa ta vprašanja o vedenju.

all these questions about behavior.

A ko pridemo do zavesti,

But when it comes to consciousness,

questions about behavior

so vprašanja glede vedenja ena lažjih.

are among the easy problems.

Ko pride do težkega vprašanja,

When it comes to the hard problem,

that's the question of why is it

vprašanja, zakaj je tako,

da je vse to vedenje pospremljeno s subjektivno izkušnjo?

that all this behavior

is accompanied by subjective experience?

And here, the standard paradigm

In tukaj standardna paradigma nastajanja,

of emergence,

even the standard paradigms of neuroscience,

celo standardna paradigma nevroznanosti,

don't really, so far, have that much to say.

do sedaj nimata veliko za povedati.

Now, I'm a scientific materialist at heart.

Po srcu sem znanstveni materialist.

I want a scientific theory of consciousness

Hočem znanstveno teorijo zavesti, ki deluje.

that works,

and for a long time, I banged my head

Dolgo časa sem si razbijal glavo

against the wall

looking for a theory of consciousness

in iskal teorijo zavesti

in purely physical terms

v povsem fizičnem pomenu,

that would work.

ki bi delovala.

But I eventually came to the conclusion

A sčasoma sem prišel do zaključka,

that that just didn't work for systematic reasons.

da to ne deluje iz čisto sistematičnih razlogov.

It's a long story,

To je dolga zgodba,

but the core idea is just that what you get

a bistvo je, da to, kar dobite iz povsem zreduciranih razlag,

from purely reductionist explanations

in physical terms, in brain-based terms,

v čisto fizičnem pomenu, na osnovi možganov,

is stories about the functioning of a system,

so zgodbe o delovanju sistema,

its structure, its dynamics,

o njegovi strukturi, dinamiki,

the behavior it produces,

vedenju, ki ga povzroča,

great for solving the easy problems —

odlično za reševanje lahkih problemov -

how we behave, how we function —

kako se vedemo, kako delujemo -

but when it comes to subjective experience —

a ko pridemo do subjektivne izkušnje -

why does all this feel like something from the inside? —

zakaj je to čutiti kot nekaj od znotraj? -

that's something fundamentally new,

to je nekaj temeljno novega,

and it's always a further question.

in je vedno tisto naslednje vprašanje.

So I think we're at a kind of impasse here.

Tako mislim, da smo prišli na neprehodno točko.

We've got this wonderful, great chain of explanation,

Imamo to čudovito verigo razlag,

we're used to it, where physics explains chemistry,

ki smo je navajeni, kjer fizika razlaga kemijo,

chemistry explains biology,

kemija razlaga biologijo,

biology explains parts of psychology.

biologija razlaga dele psihologije.

But consciousness

A zavest nekako ne sodi v ta kontekst.

doesn't seem to fit into this picture.

On the one hand, it's a datum

Na eni strani je dejstvo, da se zavedamo.

that we're conscious.

On the other hand, we don't know how

Po drugi strani,

to accommodate it into our scientific view of the world.

ne vemo, kako jo vključiti v naš znanstveni pogled na svet.

So I think consciousness right now

Zato mislim, da je v tem trenutku zavest neke vrste anomalija,

is a kind of anomaly,

one that we need to integrate

ki jo moramo vključiti v naš pogled na svet,

into our view of the world, but we don't yet see how.

a še ne vemo, kako.

Faced with an anomaly like this,

Ko se soočimo s tako anomalijo,

radical ideas may be needed,

so mogoče potrebne radikalne ideje

and I think that we may need one or two ideas

in mislim, da potrebujemo eno ali dve,

that initially seem crazy

ki se spočetka zdita nori,

before we can come to grips with consciousness

preden se lahko spoprimemo z zavestjo na znanstven način.

scientifically.

Now, there are a few candidates

Obstaja nekaj kandidatk za te nore ideje.

for what those crazy ideas might be.

My friend Dan Dennett, who's here today, has one.

Moj prijatelj, Dan Dennett, ki je danes tu, ima eno.

His crazy idea is that there is no hard problem

Po njegovem sploh ni težkega problema na področju zavesti

of consciousness.

The whole idea of the inner subjective movie

Da cela ideja notranjega subjektivnega filma

involves a kind of illusion or confusion.

vključuje neko vrsto iluzije ali zmede.

Actually, all we've got to do is explain

Potrebno je samo razložiti objektivne funkcije, vedenje možganov.

the objective functions, the behaviors of the brain,

in s tem smo pojasnili vse, kar je treba pojasniti.

and then we've explained everything

that needs to be explained.

Well I say, more power to him.

Jaz pravim, zaploskajmo mu.

That's the kind of radical idea

To je taka radikalna ideja, ki bi jo morali raziskati.

that we need to explore

if you want to have a purely reductionist

Če želite imeti povsem zreducirano teorijo zavesti,

brain-based theory of consciousness.

ki temelji na možganih.

At the same time, for me and for many other people,

Istočasno je zame in mnoge druge

that view is a bit too close to simply

ta pogled preveč podoben enostavnemu zanikanju obstoja zavesti

denying the datum of consciousness

to be satisfactory.

da bi bil zadovoljiv.

So I go in a different direction.

Zato bom šel v drugo smer.

In the time remaining,

V času, ki ga še imamo,

I want to explore two crazy ideas

bi želel raziskati dve nori ideji,

that I think may have some promise.

ki bi lahko bili obetavni.

The first crazy idea

Prva nora ideja je, da je zavest temeljna.

is that consciousness is fundamental.

Physicists sometimes take some aspects of the universe

Fiziki včasih nekatere elemente vesolja označijo za temeljne zidake:

as fundamental building blocks:

space and time and mass.

prostor in čas in masa.

They postulate fundamental laws governing them,

Zastavijo temeljne zakone, ki jim vladajo,

like the laws of gravity or of quantum mechanics.

zakone gravitacije ali kvantne mehanike.

Te temeljne lastnosti in zakoni

These fundamental properties and laws

aren't explained in terms of anything more basic.

niso razloženi z nečim še bolj osnovnim.

Rather, they're taken as primitive,

Namesto tega so razumljeni kot osnova iz katerih se gradi svet.

and you build up the world from there.

Now sometimes, the list of fundamentals expands.

Občasno se ta seznam razširi.

In the 19th century, Maxwell figured out

V devetnajstem stoletju je Maxwell ugotovil,

that you can't explain electromagnetic phenomena

da ne morete razložiti elektromagnetnih pojavov

in terms of the existing fundamentals —

z obstoječimi osnovami -

space, time, mass, Newton's laws —

prostor, čas, masa, Newtonovi zakoni -

so he postulated fundamental laws

zato je osnoval temeljne zakone elektromagnetizma

of electromagnetism

and postulated electric charge

in postavil električni naboj kot temeljni element,

as a fundamental element

that those laws govern.

ki mu ti zakoni vladajo.

I think that's the situation we're in

Mislim, da smo v podobnem položaju glede zavesti.

with consciousness.

If you can't explain consciousness

Če zavesti ne morete razložiti z obstoječimi temeljnimi pojmi -

in terms of the existing fundamentals —

space, time, mass, charge —

prostor, čas, masa, naboj -

then as a matter of logic, you need to expand the list.

potem je stvar logike, da morate seznam razširiti.

The natural thing to do is to postulate

Naravno je torej postaviti prav zavest kot nekaj temeljnega,

consciousness itself as something fundamental,

a fundamental building block of nature.

temeljni gradnik narave.

This doesn't mean you suddenly can't do science with it.

To ne pomeni, da nenadoma z njo ne morete biti znanstveni.

This opens up the way for you to do science with it.

To vam odpre pot, da se z njo znanstveno ukvarjate.

What we then need is to study

Potem moramo preučiti temeljne zakone, ki zavesti vladajo,

the fundamental laws governing consciousness,

the laws that connect consciousness

zakone, ki zavest povezujejo z ostalimi temelji:

to other fundamentals: space, time, mass,

prostor, čas, masa, fizični procesi.

physical processes.

Physicists sometimes say

Fiziki včasih pravijo, da želimo tako preproste temeljne zakone,

that we want fundamental laws so simple

that we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.

da bi jih lahko napisali na majico.

Well I think something like that is the situation

Mislim, da je to podobno položaju, v katerem smo pri zavesti.

we're in with consciousness.

Želimo tako preproste temeljne zakone, da bi jih lahko napisali na majico.

We want to find fundamental laws so simple

we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.

We don't know what those laws are yet,

Ne vemo še, kaj so ti zakoni,

but that's what we're after.

a to je, kar iščemo.

The second crazy idea

Druga nora ideja je, da je zavest nekaj univerzalnega.

is that consciousness might be universal.

Every system might have some degree

Vsak sistem bi lahko imel neko stopnjo zavesti.

of consciousness.

This view is sometimes called panpsychism:

Ta nazor se včasih imenuje 'panpsihizem':

pan for all, psych for mind,

'pan' za vse in 'psih' za um,

every system is conscious,

vsak sistem ima zavest,

not just humans, dogs, mice, flies,

ne le ljudje, psi, miši, muhe,

but even Rob Knight's microbes,

ampak celo mikrobi Roba Knighta,

elementary particles.

elementarni delci.

Even a photon has some degree of consciousness.

Celo foton ima neko stopnjo zavesti.

The idea is not that photons are intelligent

To ne pomeni, da so fotoni inteligentni ali misleči.

or thinking.

It's not that a photon

To ne pomeni, da se foton spopada s tesnobo,

is wracked with angst

because it's thinking, "Aww, I'm always buzzing around near the speed of light.

ker misli: "Ah, vedno frčim naokrog s skoraj svetlobno hitrostjo.

I never get to slow down and smell the roses."

Nikoli se ne morem ustaviti, da bi povohal cvetlice."

No, not like that.

Ne, ni tako.

But the thought is maybe photons might have

A fotoni bi lahko imeli elemente surovega, subjektivnega občutka,

some element of raw, subjective feeling,

some primitive precursor to consciousness.

neke vrste primitiven predhodnik zavesti.

This may sound a bit kooky to you.

To se vam lahko zdi malce noro.

I mean, why would anyone think such a crazy thing?

Le zakaj bi nekdo pomislil na kaj takega?

Some motivation comes from the first crazy idea,

Nekaj motivacije prihaja iz prve nore ideje:

that consciousness is fundamental.

da je zavest temeljna.

Če je temeljna, kot prostor, čas in masa,

If it's fundamental, like space and time and mass,

it's natural to suppose that it might be universal too,

je naravno sklepati, da je mogoče tudi univerzalna,

the way they are.

tako kot so oni.

It's also worth noting that although the idea

Vredno si je zapomniti, da čeprav se nam ideja zdi čudna,

seems counterintuitive to us,

it's much less counterintuitive to people

je veliko manj čudna ljudem iz različnih kultur,

from different cultures,

where the human mind is seen as much more

kjer je človeški um veliko bolj skladen z naravo.

continuous with nature.

A deeper motivation comes from the idea that

Globlji motiv prihaja iz ideje,

da je mogoče najpreprostejši in najboljši način

perhaps the most simple and powerful way

to find fundamental laws connecting consciousness

za odkritje temeljnih zakonov, ki povezujejo zavest in fizično obdelavo,

to physical processing

is to link consciousness to information.

povezava zavesti z informacijami.

Wherever there's information processing,

Kjerkoli se obdelujejo informacije, obstaja tudi zavest.

there's consciousness.

Complex information processing, like in a human,

Zapletena obdelava informacij, kot pri ljudeh,

complex consciousness.

zapletena zavest.

Simple information processing,

Enostavna obdelava,

simple consciousness.

preprosta zavest.

A really exciting thing is in recent years

Zares razburljiva novica zadnjih let je znanstvenik, Giulio Tononi,

a neuroscientist, Giulio Tononi,

has taken this kind of theory

ki se je oprl na tako teorijo

and developed it rigorously

in jo podrobno razvil z matematično teorijo.

with a mathematical theory.

He has a mathematical measure

Ima matematično mero integracije informacij,

of information integration

which he calls phi,

ki jo imenuje phi,

measuring the amount of information

merjenje količine informacij, ki so vključene v sistem.

integrated in a system.

And he supposes that phi goes along

In meni, da gre phi skupaj z zavestjo.

with consciousness.

So in a human brain,

Torej v človeških možganih je visoka stopnja integracije informacij,

incredibly large amount of information integration,

visoka stopnja phi,

high degree of phi,

veliko zavesti.

a whole lot of consciousness.

In a mouse, medium degree of information integration,

Pri miših, srednja stopnja integracije informacij,

still pretty significant,

še vedno omembe vredno, kar resna mera zavesti,

pretty serious amount of consciousness.

But as you go down to worms,

A ko se spustite k črvom, mikrobom, delcem,

microbes, particles,

the amount of phi falls off.

količina phi pade.

The amount of information integration falls off,

Količina sprejemanja informacij pade, a je še vedno več od nič.

but it's still non-zero.

On Tononi's theory,

Po Tononijevi teoriji,

there's still going to be a non-zero degree

bo tam še vedno ne-nična stopnja zavesti.

of consciousness.

In effect, he's proposing a fundamental law

Pravzaprav predlaga temeljni zakon zavesti:

of consciousness: high phi, high consciousness.

visok phi, visoka stopnja zavesti.

Now, I don't know if this theory is right,

Ne vem, ali ima teorija prav,

a je v tem trenutku mogoče vodilna teorija v znanosti o zavesti.

but it's actually perhaps the leading theory right now

in the science of consciousness,

and it's been used to integrate a whole range

Uporabili so jo za integracijo cele vrste znanstvenih podatkov

of scientific data,

and it does have a nice property that it is in fact simple enough

in ima lepo lastnost,

da je res dovolj preprosta, da jo napišete na majico.

you can write it on the front of a t-shirt.

Še zadnji motiv je,

Another final motivation is that

panpsychism might help us to integrate

da nam panpsihizem lahko morda pomaga integrirati zavest v fizični svet.

consciousness into the physical world.

Physicists and philosophers have often observed

Fiziki in filozofi so pogosto opazili,

that physics is curiously abstract.

da je fizika nenavadno abstraktna.

It describes the structure of reality

Opisuje strukturo realnosti z uporabo kopice enačb,

using a bunch of equations,

but it doesn't tell us about the reality

a nam ne razlaga realnosti, ki je v njenem ozadju.

that underlies it.

As Stephen Hawking puts it,

Kot je dejal Stephen Hawking,

what puts the fire into the equations?

kaj daje žar enačbam?

Well, on the panpsychist view,

S stališča panpsihistov lahko pustite fizikalne enačbe kot so,

you can leave the equations of physics as they are,

but you can take them to be describing

a jih jemljete, kot da opisujejo tok zavesti.

the flux of consciousness.

That's what physics really is ultimately doing,

Kajti to konec koncev fizika počne, opisuje tok zavesti.

describing the flux of consciousness.

On this view, it's consciousness

S tega vidika je zavest tisto, kar daje enačbam žar.

that puts the fire into the equations.

On that view, consciousness doesn't dangle

S tega vidika, zavest ne obstaja zunaj fizičnega sveta,

outside the physical world

as some kind of extra.

kot nekaj dodatnega.

It's there right at its heart.

Je prav tu v njegovem središču.

This view, I think, the panpsychist view,

Ta, panpsihistični pogled, ima po mojem mnenju

has the potential to transfigure our relationship

potencial, da preoblikuje naš odnos z naravo

to nature,

and it may have some pretty serious social

in ima morda precej resne socialne in etične posledice.

and ethical consequences.

Some of these may be counterintuitive.

Nekatere od teh so mogoče v nasprotju z občutki.

I used to think I shouldn't eat anything

Nekoč sem menil, da ne bi smel pojesti ničesar z zavestjo,

which is conscious,

so therefore I should be vegetarian.

zato bi moral biti vegetarijanec.

Now, if you're a panpsychist and you take that view,

Če ste panpsihist in zavzamete to stališče, boste zelo lačni.

you're going to go very hungry.

So I think when you think about it,

Zato, če pomislite, lahko to zelo preoblikuje vaša načela,

this tends to transfigure your views,

whereas what matters for ethical purposes

bodisi na področju etike in moralnih vprašanj;

and moral considerations,

not so much the fact of consciousness,

ne samo dejstvo zavesti, ampak stopnja in kompleksnost zavesti.

but the degree and the complexity of consciousness.

It's also natural to ask about consciousness

Naravno se je vprašati o zavesti v drugih sistemih - računalnikih.

in other systems, like computers.

What about the artificially intelligent system

Kaj pa umetno inteligentni istem v filmu "Ona", Samantha?

in the movie "Her," Samantha?

Is she conscious?

Ali ima zavest?

Well, if you take the informational,

Če pogledate z informacijskega, panpsihističnega vidika,

panpsychist view,

she certainly has complicated information processing

sta tu gotovo zapletena obdelava informacij in integracija,

and integration,

so the answer is very likely yes, she is conscious.

zato je odgovor najverjetneje, ja, ima zavest.

If that's right, it raises pretty serious

In če je to res, se pojavijo precej resna etična vprašanja

ethical issues about both the ethics

o etiki razvoja inteligentnih računalnikov

of developing intelligent computer systems

pa tudi o etiki njihovega ugašanja.

and the ethics of turning them off.

Finally, you might ask about the consciousness

Končno bi lahko vprašali o zavesti celotnih skupin, planeta.

of whole groups,

the planet.

Does Canada have its own consciousness?

Ima Kanada svojo zavest?

Or at a more local level,

Ali bolj lokalno,

does an integrated group

ali ima integrirana skupina, kot je občinstvo na TED konferenci,

like the audience at a TED conference,

are we right now having a collective TED consciousness,

ali imamo v tem trenutku kolektivno TED zavest,

an inner movie

notranji film za to TED skupino,

for this collective TED group

which is distinct from the inner movies

ki se razlikuje od notranjih filmov

of each of our parts?

vsakega posameznika?

I don't know the answer to that question,

Odgovora ne poznam, a mislim, da je eno od tistih,

but I think it's at least one

worth taking seriously.

ki ga je vredno resno preučiti.

Okay, so this panpsychist vision,

Ta panpsihistični pogled je radikalen

it is a radical one,

and I don't know that it's correct.

in ne vem ali je pravilen.

I'm actually more confident about

Veliko bolj zaupam prvi nori ideji, da je zavest temeljna,

the first crazy idea,

that consciousness is fundamental,

kot drugi, da je univerzalna.

than about the second one,

that it's universal.

I mean, the view raises any number of questions,

Ta pogled sproža številna vprašanja

has any number of challenges,

in skriva številne izzive, na primer:

like how do those little bits

kako se vsi ti mali koščki zavesti seštevajo v to kompleksno zavest,

of consciousness add up

to the kind of complex consciousness

ki jo ljubimo in poznamo.

we know and love.

If we can answer those questions,

Če bomo odgovorili na ta vprašanja,

then I think we're going to be well on our way

mislim, da bomo na dobri poti k resni teoriji o zavesti.

to a serious theory of consciousness.

If not, well, this is the hardest problem perhaps

Če ne... To je morda najtežji problem v znanosti in filozofiji.

in science and philosophy.

We can't expect to solve it overnight.

Ne moremo pričakovati rešitve čez noč.

But I do think we're going to figure it out eventually.

A mislim, da jo bomo sčasoma našli.

Understanding consciousness is a real key, I think,

Razumevanje zavesti, je resnično ključ.

both to understanding the universe

Tako do razumevanja vesolja, kot tudi nas samih.

and to understanding ourselves.

It may just take the right crazy idea.

Mogoče potrebujemo samo pravo noro idejo.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Aplavz)

(Applause)