How do you explain consciousness? | David Chalmers

1,428,996 views ・ 2014-07-14

TED


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Prevoditelj: Ivan Stamenković Recezent: Ivana Kordic
00:12
Right now
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Upravo sada
00:14
you have a movie playing inside your head.
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u vašoj glavi vrti se film.
00:17
It's an amazing multi-track movie.
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To je izuzetan više-tračni film.
00:20
It has 3D vision and surround sound
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Snimljen je u 3D tehnici s vrhunskim zvukom
00:23
for what you're seeing and hearing right now,
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za ono što sada gledate i slušate,
00:26
but that's just the start of it.
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ali to je samo početak toga.
00:28
Your movie has smell and taste and touch.
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Vaš film se može i onjušiti, okusiti i dotaknuti.
00:33
It has a sense of your body,
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Osjeća ono što i vaše tijelo osjeća,
00:36
pain, hunger, orgasms.
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bol, glad, orgazme.
00:40
It has emotions,
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Ima i emocije,
00:42
anger and happiness.
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ljutnju i sreću.
00:46
It has memories, like scenes from your childhood
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Ima i sjećanja, poput scena iz vašeg djetinjstva
00:50
playing before you.
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koje se odvijaju pred vašim očima.
00:52
And it has this constant voiceover narrative
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Popraćeno je konstantnom glasovnom naracijom
00:57
in your stream of conscious thinking.
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usklađenom s tokom vašeg razmišljanja.
01:01
At the heart of this movie is you
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U samom se srcu filma nalazite vi
01:06
experiencing all this directly.
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koji ovo izravno doživljavate.
01:11
This movie is your stream of consciousness,
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Ovaj film je vaš tok svijesti,
01:16
the subject of experience
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subjekt iskustva
01:18
of the mind and the world.
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uma i svijeta.
01:23
Consciousness is one of the fundamental facts
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Svijest je jedna od fundamentalnih činjenica
01:25
of human existence.
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ljudske egzistencije.
01:27
Each of us is conscious.
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Svatko od nas ima svijest.
01:30
We all have our own inner movie,
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Svatko od nas ima svoj nutarnji film,
01:33
you and you and you.
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vi, i vi, i vi.
01:36
There's nothing we know about more directly.
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Ne postoji ništa što nećemo spoznati ovako izravno.
01:39
At least, I know about my consciousness directly.
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Barem sam ja izravno svjestan svoje svijesti.
01:43
I can't be certain that you guys are conscious.
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Ne mogu biti siguran da i vi posjedujete svijest.
01:47
Consciousness also is what makes life worth living.
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Svijest je također ono što daje vrijednost životu.
01:50
If we weren't conscious, nothing in our lives
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Da nismo svjesni, ničem se u našim životima
01:54
would have meaning or value.
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ne bi mogao pripisati neki smisao ili vrijednost.
01:57
But at the same time, it's the most
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No u isto vrijeme, svijest je jedna od
01:58
mysterious phenomenon in the universe.
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najmisterioznijih fenomena u svijetu.
02:03
Why are we conscious?
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Zašto imamo svijest?
02:06
Why do we have these inner movies?
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Zašto posjedujemo ove nutarnje filmove?
02:07
Why aren't we just robots
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Zašto nismo samo roboti
02:10
who process all this input,
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koji obrađuju input,
02:12
produce all that output,
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proizvode output,
02:14
without experiencing the inner movie at all?
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bez iskustva ovog nutarnjeg filma?
02:18
Right now, nobody knows the answers
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Trenutno nitko ne zna odgovore
02:20
to those questions.
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na ova pitanja.
02:22
I'm going to suggest that to integrate consciousness
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Da bismo integrirali svijest
02:26
into science, some radical ideas may be needed.
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u znanost, potrebne su nam neke radikalne ideje.
02:31
Some people say a science of consciousness
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Neki ljudi kažu da znanost o svijesti
02:33
is impossible.
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nije moguća.
02:35
Science, by its nature, is objective.
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Znanost je po prirodi objektivna.
02:39
Consciousness, by its nature, is subjective.
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Svijest je po prirodi subjektivna.
02:43
So there can never be a science of consciousness.
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Tako da nikad ne može biti znanosti svijesti.
02:47
For much of the 20th century, that view held sway.
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Većinu 20. stoljeća to je gledište prevladavalo.
02:50
Psychologists studied behavior objectively,
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Psiholozi su proučavali ponašanje objektivno,
02:54
neuroscientists studied the brain objectively,
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neuroznanstvenici su proučavali mozak objektivno,
02:58
and nobody even mentioned consciousness.
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i nitko nije spominjao svijest.
03:02
Even 30 years ago, when TED got started,
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Čak i prije 30 godina, kada je TED započeo,
03:04
there was very little scientific work
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bilo je malo znanstvenog rada
03:07
on consciousness.
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vezanog uz svijest.
03:09
Now, about 20 years ago,
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Sad, prije nekih 20 godina,
03:11
all that began to change.
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sve se to počelo mijenjati.
03:14
Neuroscientists like Francis Crick
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Neuroznanstvenici kao Francis Crick
03:17
and physicists like Roger Penrose
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i fizičari kao Roger Penrose
03:20
said now is the time for science
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rekli su da je sada vrijeme da se znanost
03:22
to attack consciousness.
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uhvati u koštac sa sviješću.
03:25
And since then, there's been a real explosion,
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I od tada, postoji prava eksplozija,
03:27
a flowering of scientific work
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procvat znanstvenog rada
03:29
on consciousness.
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na svijesti.
03:31
And this work has been wonderful. It's been great.
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I ovaj rad je bio predivan. Bilo je odlično.
03:33
But it also has some fundamental
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Ali također ima neka osnovna
03:35
limitations so far.
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ograničenja.
03:39
The centerpiece
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Centralni dio
03:40
of the science of consciousness in recent years
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znanosti svijesti u posljednjim godinama
03:43
has been the search for correlations,
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je istraživanje korelacije,
03:45
correlations between certain areas of the brain
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korelacije između određenih područja mozga
03:49
and certain states of consciousness.
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i određenih stanja svijesti.
03:53
We saw some of this kind of work
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Vidjeli smo ovakav rad
03:54
from Nancy Kanwisher and the wonderful work
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od Nancy Kanwisher i prekrasan rad
03:55
she presented just a few minutes ago.
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koji je predstavila prije nekoliko minuta.
03:59
Now we understand much better, for example,
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Sada na primjer, puno bolje razumijemo
04:02
the kinds of brain areas that go along with
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područja mozga koja idu uz
04:05
the conscious experience of seeing faces
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svjesna iskustva viđenja lica
04:08
or of feeling pain
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ili osjećaja boli
04:11
or of feeling happy.
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ili osjećaja sreće.
04:14
But this is still a science of correlations.
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Ali ovo je i dalje znanost korelacije.
04:16
It's not a science of explanations.
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To nije znanost objašnjavanja.
04:20
We know that these brain areas
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Znamo da ova područja mozga
04:22
go along with certain kinds of conscious experience,
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idu zajedno sa određenim svjesnim iskustvima,
04:26
but we don't know why they do.
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ali ne znamo zašto to čine.
04:30
I like to put this by saying
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Volim to reći tako da
04:32
that this kind of work from neuroscience
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je ovaj način rada od neuroznanosti
04:36
is answering some of the questions
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daje neke odgovore na pitanja
04:37
we want answered about consciousness,
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koja želimo odgovoriti u svezi svijesti,
04:39
the questions about what certain brain areas do
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pitanja o tome što rade koja područja mozga
04:43
and what they correlate with.
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i s čime su povezana.
04:45
But in a certain sense, those are the easy problems.
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Ali u određenom smislu, ovo su laki problemi.
04:48
No knock on the neuroscientists.
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Bez uvrede neuroznanstvenicima.
04:51
There are no truly easy problems with consciousness.
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Ne postoje zaista laki problemi vezani sa sviješću.
04:53
But it doesn't address the real mystery
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Ali to ne odgovara na pravu misteriju
04:58
at the core of this subject:
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u srži ove teme:
05:00
why is it that all that physical processing in a brain
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zašto bi se svo to procesuiranje u mozgu
05:04
should be accompanied by consciousness at all?
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moralo pratiti sviješću?
05:07
Why is there this inner subjective movie?
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Zašto postoji ovaj nutarnji subjektivni film?
05:10
Right now, we don't really have a bead on that.
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Sada, nemamo ideje zašto je tako.
05:13
And you might say,
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I možete reći,
05:15
let's just give neuroscience a few years.
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dajmo neuroznanosti koju godinu.
05:19
It'll turn out to be another emergent phenomenon
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To će biti još jedan pojavni fenomen
05:23
like traffic jams, like hurricanes,
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kao što su zastoji u prometu, uragani,
05:28
like life, and we'll figure it out.
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život, i shvatit ćemo ga.
05:30
The classical cases of emergence
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Klasični slučajevi pojavljivanja
05:32
are all cases of emergent behavior,
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su svi slučajevi pojavnog ponašanja,
05:36
how a traffic jam behaves,
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kako se ponaša zastoj,
05:38
how a hurricane functions,
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kako funkcionira uragan,
05:40
how a living organism reproduces
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kako se živi organizam razmnožava
05:42
and adapts and metabolizes,
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i prilagođava i metabolizira,
05:45
all questions about objective functioning.
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sve pitanja o objektivnom funkcioniranju.
05:48
You could apply that to the human brain
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To možete primijeniti na ljudski mozak
05:51
in explaining some of the behaviors
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i objasniti neka od ponašanja
05:52
and the functions of the human brain
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i funkcija mozga
05:54
as emergent phenomena:
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kao pojavne fenomene:
05:55
how we walk, how we talk, how we play chess,
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kako hodamo, razgovaramo, igramo šah,
06:00
all these questions about behavior.
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sva ta pitanja o ponašanju.
06:02
But when it comes to consciousness,
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Ali kada dođemo do svijesti,
06:04
questions about behavior
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pitanja o ponašanju
06:06
are among the easy problems.
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su među jednostavnim problemima.
06:09
When it comes to the hard problem,
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Kada su u pitanju teški problemi,
06:10
that's the question of why is it
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pitanje je zašto
06:13
that all this behavior
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svo ovo ponašanje
06:14
is accompanied by subjective experience?
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prati tako subjektivno iskustvo?
06:17
And here, the standard paradigm
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I ovdje, standardna paradigma
06:19
of emergence,
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pojavnosti,
06:21
even the standard paradigms of neuroscience,
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čak i standardne paradigme neuroznanosti,
06:24
don't really, so far, have that much to say.
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nemaju, za sada, što za reći.
06:28
Now, I'm a scientific materialist at heart.
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Sad, ja sam znanstveni materijalist u srcu.
06:32
I want a scientific theory of consciousness
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Želim znanstvenu teoriju svijesti
06:36
that works,
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koja radi,
06:38
and for a long time, I banged my head
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i dugo vremena razbijao sam glavu
06:41
against the wall
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o zid
06:42
looking for a theory of consciousness
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tražeći teoriju svijesti
06:44
in purely physical terms
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u fizičkim uvjetima
06:46
that would work.
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koja bi radila.
06:47
But I eventually came to the conclusion
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No došao sam do zaključka
06:49
that that just didn't work for systematic reasons.
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da to nije radilo zbog sistematičkih razloga.
06:53
It's a long story,
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Duga je to priča,
06:55
but the core idea is just that what you get
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ali ideja u srži je da ono što dobijete
06:58
from purely reductionist explanations
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od redukcijskih objašnjenja
07:00
in physical terms, in brain-based terms,
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u fizičkim uvjetima, u uvjetima koji se zasnivaju na mozgu
07:03
is stories about the functioning of a system,
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su priče o funkcioniranju sustava,
07:05
its structure, its dynamics,
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strukturi, dinamici,
07:07
the behavior it produces,
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ponašanju koje stvara,
07:09
great for solving the easy problems —
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i odlično je za rješavanje lakih problema —
07:11
how we behave, how we function —
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kako se ponašamo, kako funkcioniramo —
07:14
but when it comes to subjective experience —
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ali kada se radi o subjektivnom iskustvu —
07:17
why does all this feel like something from the inside? —
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zašto se ovo čini kao nešto iznutra? —
07:21
that's something fundamentally new,
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to je nešto fundamentalno novo,
07:23
and it's always a further question.
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i uvijek je daljnje pitanje.
07:27
So I think we're at a kind of impasse here.
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Tako da mislim da se nalazimo u slijepoj ulici.
07:32
We've got this wonderful, great chain of explanation,
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Imamo ovaj divan, odličan lanac pojašnjavanja,
07:35
we're used to it, where physics explains chemistry,
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navikli smo na njega, gdje fizika objašnjava kemiju,
07:39
chemistry explains biology,
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kemija biologiju,
07:42
biology explains parts of psychology.
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biologija objašnjava dio psihologije.
07:46
But consciousness
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No svijest
07:48
doesn't seem to fit into this picture.
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se ne uklapa u tu sliku.
07:50
On the one hand, it's a datum
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S jedne strane očito je
07:52
that we're conscious.
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da smo svjesni.
07:54
On the other hand, we don't know how
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S druge ne znamo kako
07:55
to accommodate it into our scientific view of the world.
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da to uklopimo u naš znanstveni pogled na svijet.
07:59
So I think consciousness right now
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Tako da mislim da je svijest
08:01
is a kind of anomaly,
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neka vrsta anomalije,
08:04
one that we need to integrate
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koju trebamo integrirati
08:06
into our view of the world, but we don't yet see how.
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u naš pogled svijeta, ali još ne vidimo kako.
08:10
Faced with an anomaly like this,
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Suočeni s ovakvom anomalijom,
08:12
radical ideas may be needed,
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trebat ćemo radikalne ideje,
08:15
and I think that we may need one or two ideas
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i mislim da trebamo jednu ili dvije ideje
08:18
that initially seem crazy
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koje će se činiti ludima ispočetka
08:20
before we can come to grips with consciousness
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prije nego shvatimo svijest
08:23
scientifically.
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znanstveno.
08:25
Now, there are a few candidates
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Sad, imamo nekoliko kandidata
08:27
for what those crazy ideas might be.
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za te sulude ideje.
08:29
My friend Dan Dennett, who's here today, has one.
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Moj prijatelj Dan Dennet, koji je danas tu, ima jednu.
08:34
His crazy idea is that there is no hard problem
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Njegova luda ideja je da ne postoji težak problem
08:36
of consciousness.
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svijesti.
08:38
The whole idea of the inner subjective movie
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Cijela ideja ovog nutarnjeg subjetkivnog filma
08:41
involves a kind of illusion or confusion.
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uključuje nekakvu iluziju ili zbunjenost.
08:46
Actually, all we've got to do is explain
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Zapravo, sve što moramo je objasniti
08:48
the objective functions, the behaviors of the brain,
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objektivne funkcije, ponašanje mozga,
08:51
and then we've explained everything
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i onda smo sve objasnili
08:53
that needs to be explained.
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što je trebalo objasniti.
08:55
Well I say, more power to him.
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Svaka čast, kažem ja.
08:58
That's the kind of radical idea
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To je vrsta radikalne ideje
09:00
that we need to explore
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koju moramo istražiti
09:02
if you want to have a purely reductionist
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želite li imati redukcionističku
09:04
brain-based theory of consciousness.
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teoriju svijesti temeljenu na mozgu.
09:08
At the same time, for me and for many other people,
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U isto vrijeme, za mene i mnoge druge ljude,
09:10
that view is a bit too close to simply
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taj je pogled bio preblizu
09:12
denying the datum of consciousness
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poricanju izvjesnosti svijesti
09:14
to be satisfactory.
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da bi zadovoljavao.
09:15
So I go in a different direction.
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Tako da sam otišao u drugi smjer.
09:18
In the time remaining,
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U preostalom vremenu,
09:19
I want to explore two crazy ideas
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želim istražiti dvije lude ideje
09:22
that I think may have some promise.
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za koje mislim da obećavaju.
09:26
The first crazy idea
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Prva luda ideja
09:28
is that consciousness is fundamental.
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4625
je da je svijest osnova.
09:32
Physicists sometimes take some aspects of the universe
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2841
Fizičari ponekad uzmu neke aspekte svemira
09:35
as fundamental building blocks:
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2160
kao osnove za izgrađivanje:
09:37
space and time and mass.
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3749
prostor i vrijeme i masa.
09:41
They postulate fundamental laws governing them,
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3610
Oni postavljaju osnovne zakone koji njima vladaju,
09:45
like the laws of gravity or of quantum mechanics.
203
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3890
poput zakona gravitacije
ili kvantne mehanike.
09:49
These fundamental properties and laws
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2310
Ova osnovna svojstva i zakoni
09:51
aren't explained in terms of anything more basic.
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3217
nisu objašnjeni u uvjetima nečeg jednostavnog.
09:54
Rather, they're taken as primitive,
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2740
Rađe, uzima ih se primitivnima,
09:57
and you build up the world from there.
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3379
i od toga se izgrađuje svijet.
10:00
Now sometimes, the list of fundamentals expands.
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5099
Ponekad se lista osnova proširi.
10:05
In the 19th century, Maxwell figured out
209
605905
2457
U 19. stoljeću, Maxwell je otkrio
10:08
that you can't explain electromagnetic phenomena
210
608362
3168
da ne možete objasniti elektromagnetski fenomen
10:11
in terms of the existing fundamentals —
211
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2351
uz pomoć postojećih osnova —
10:13
space, time, mass, Newton's laws —
212
613881
3069
prostor, vrijeme, masa, Newtonovi zakoni —
10:16
so he postulated fundamental laws
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2571
tako da je postavio temeljne zakone
10:19
of electromagnetism
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1814
elektromagnetizma
10:21
and postulated electric charge
215
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2411
i utvrdio električni napon
10:23
as a fundamental element
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1768
kao temeljni element
10:25
that those laws govern.
217
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2959
kojim vladaju ti zakoni.
10:28
I think that's the situation we're in
218
628473
3283
Mislim da je to situacija u kojoj se nalazimo
10:31
with consciousness.
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1610
sa svijesti.
10:33
If you can't explain consciousness
220
633366
2485
Ako ne možete objasniti svijest
10:35
in terms of the existing fundamentals —
221
635851
2418
u terminima postojećih osnova —
10:38
space, time, mass, charge —
222
638269
2671
prostor, vrijeme, masa, naboj —
10:40
then as a matter of logic, you need to expand the list.
223
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3430
onda je stvar logike da morate proširiti listu.
10:44
The natural thing to do is to postulate
224
644370
2476
Prirodna stvar je da postavite
10:46
consciousness itself as something fundamental,
225
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3256
svijest kao nešto osnovno,
10:50
a fundamental building block of nature.
226
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3032
osnovni gradivni blok prirode.
10:53
This doesn't mean you suddenly can't do science with it.
227
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2968
To ne znači da ju iznenada ne možete znanstveno proučavati.
10:56
This opens up the way for you to do science with it.
228
656102
3598
Ovo otvara put za istraživanje.
10:59
What we then need is to study
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659700
1904
Potom trebamo proučavati
11:01
the fundamental laws governing consciousness,
230
661604
2953
osnovne zakone koji vladaju sviješću,
11:04
the laws that connect consciousness
231
664557
2380
zakone koji povezuju svijest
11:06
to other fundamentals: space, time, mass,
232
666937
2801
s ostalim osnovama: prostorom, vremenom, masom,
11:09
physical processes.
233
669738
2936
fizičkim procesima.
11:12
Physicists sometimes say
234
672674
2182
Fizičari ponekad kažu
11:14
that we want fundamental laws so simple
235
674856
2880
da želimo tako jednostavne osnovne zakone
11:17
that we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.
236
677736
3802
da ih možemo pisati na majice.
11:21
Well I think something like that is the situation
237
681538
1721
Pa mislim da je takva situacija
11:23
we're in with consciousness.
238
683259
1868
u kojoj se nalazimo sa svijesti.
11:25
We want to find fundamental laws so simple
239
685127
2750
Želimo naći tako jednostavne osnovne zakone
11:27
we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.
240
687877
2087
da ih možemo pisati na majice.
11:29
We don't know what those laws are yet,
241
689964
1575
Ne znamo koji su to zakoni još,
11:31
but that's what we're after.
242
691539
4027
ali to tražimo.
11:35
The second crazy idea
243
695566
2417
Druga suluda ideja
11:37
is that consciousness might be universal.
244
697983
3478
je da je svijest možda univerzalna.
11:41
Every system might have some degree
245
701461
3061
Svaki sustav mogao bi imati neku razinu
11:44
of consciousness.
246
704522
3725
svijesti.
11:48
This view is sometimes called panpsychism:
247
708247
2961
Ovaj pogled nekad se zove panpsihizam:
11:51
pan for all, psych for mind,
248
711208
3002
pan za sve, psiha za um,
11:54
every system is conscious,
249
714210
1771
svaki sustav je svjestan,
11:55
not just humans, dogs, mice, flies,
250
715981
4247
ne samo ljudi, psi, miševi, mušice,
12:00
but even Rob Knight's microbes,
251
720228
2577
već i mikrobi Roba Knighta,
12:02
elementary particles.
252
722805
2187
elementarne čestice.
12:04
Even a photon has some degree of consciousness.
253
724992
2713
Čak i fotoni imaju neku razinu svijesti.
12:07
The idea is not that photons are intelligent
254
727705
3779
Ideja nije da su fotoni inteligentni
12:11
or thinking.
255
731484
1077
ili misle.
12:12
It's not that a photon
256
732561
1430
Nije da foton
12:13
is wracked with angst
257
733991
1445
opterećuje životna bol
12:15
because it's thinking, "Aww, I'm always buzzing around near the speed of light.
258
735436
3292
jer misli: "Ah, uvijek zujim uokolo brzinom svjetlosti.
12:18
I never get to slow down and smell the roses."
259
738728
2992
Nikad ne usporim i pomirišem ruže."
12:21
No, not like that.
260
741720
2144
Ne, ne tako.
12:23
But the thought is maybe photons might have
261
743864
3048
Ali misao je možda da fotoni imaju
12:26
some element of raw, subjective feeling,
262
746912
2623
neki element sirovog, subjektivnog osjećanja,
12:29
some primitive precursor to consciousness.
263
749535
4152
neku primitivnu preteču svijesti.
12:33
This may sound a bit kooky to you.
264
753687
2854
Ovo vam može zvučati malo čudno.
12:36
I mean, why would anyone think such a crazy thing?
265
756541
2783
Mislim, zašto bi netko mislio tako ludu stvar?
12:39
Some motivation comes from the first crazy idea,
266
759324
3560
Dio motivacije dolazi iz prve sulude ideje,
12:42
that consciousness is fundamental.
267
762884
2146
da je svijest fundamentalna
12:45
If it's fundamental, like space and time and mass,
268
765030
4375
Ako je fundamentalna, kao prostor i vrijeme i masa,
12:49
it's natural to suppose that it might be universal too,
269
769405
2665
Prirodno je da bi i to moglo biti univerzalno,
12:52
the way they are.
270
772070
1900
kao što su one.
12:53
It's also worth noting that although the idea
271
773970
1949
Vrijedno je spomenuti da iako se ideja
12:55
seems counterintuitive to us,
272
775919
2024
možda nama čini kontraintuitivnom,
12:57
it's much less counterintuitive to people
273
777943
2744
mnogo je manje kontraintuitivna ljudima
13:00
from different cultures,
274
780687
1731
iz drugih kultura,
13:02
where the human mind is seen as much more
275
782418
1520
gdje je ljudski um viđen kao
13:03
continuous with nature.
276
783938
3072
povezaniji s prirodom.
13:07
A deeper motivation comes from the idea that
277
787010
3734
Dublja motivacija dolazi od ideje da
13:10
perhaps the most simple and powerful way
278
790744
2009
možda najjednostavniji i najsnažniji način
13:12
to find fundamental laws connecting consciousness
279
792753
2234
za pronalazak fundamentalnih zakona koji vežu svijest
13:14
to physical processing
280
794987
1980
s fizičkim procesima
13:16
is to link consciousness to information.
281
796967
3095
jest povezati svijest s informacijama.
13:20
Wherever there's information processing,
282
800062
2011
Gdje god postoji procesuiranje informacija,
13:22
there's consciousness.
283
802073
1065
postoji svijest.
13:23
Complex information processing, like in a human,
284
803138
2540
Procesuiranje složenih informacija, kao kod ljudi,
13:25
complex consciousness.
285
805688
1532
složena svijest.
13:27
Simple information processing,
286
807220
2129
Procesuiranje jednostavnih informacija,
13:29
simple consciousness.
287
809349
1958
jednostavna svijest.
13:31
A really exciting thing is in recent years
288
811307
2331
Zaista uzbudljiva stvar posljednih godina
13:33
a neuroscientist, Giulio Tononi,
289
813638
3265
je da je neuroznanstvenik Giulio Tononi,
13:36
has taken this kind of theory
290
816903
1243
uzeo ovu teoriju
13:38
and developed it rigorously
291
818146
2075
i rigorozno je razvio
13:40
with a mathematical theory.
292
820221
1849
s matematičkom teorijom.
13:42
He has a mathematical measure
293
822070
1517
Ima matematičku mjeru
13:43
of information integration
294
823587
1730
za integraciju informacija
13:45
which he calls phi,
295
825317
1919
koju zove phi,
13:47
measuring the amount of information
296
827236
1607
mjereći količinu informacija
13:48
integrated in a system.
297
828843
1620
integriranu u sustav.
13:50
And he supposes that phi goes along
298
830463
2369
I pretpostavlja da phi ide zajedno
13:52
with consciousness.
299
832832
1438
sa sviješću
13:54
So in a human brain,
300
834270
1321
U ljudskom mozgu,
13:55
incredibly large amount of information integration,
301
835591
2519
iznimno velika količina integracije informacija,
13:58
high degree of phi,
302
838110
2034
visoka razina phija,
14:00
a whole lot of consciousness.
303
840144
1549
jako puno svijesti.
14:01
In a mouse, medium degree of information integration,
304
841693
3693
Kod miša, umjerena količina integracije informacija,
14:05
still pretty significant,
305
845386
1019
još uvijek značajna,
14:06
pretty serious amount of consciousness.
306
846405
2025
ozbiljna količina svijesti.
14:08
But as you go down to worms,
307
848430
2265
Ali kako idete niže prema crvima,
14:10
microbes, particles,
308
850695
3477
mikrobima, česticama,
14:14
the amount of phi falls off.
309
854172
1534
količina phija opada,
14:15
The amount of information integration falls off,
310
855706
2433
Količina integracije informacija opada,
14:18
but it's still non-zero.
311
858139
1448
no još uvijek nije nula.
14:19
On Tononi's theory,
312
859587
1939
Prema Tononijevoj teoriji,
14:21
there's still going to be a non-zero degree
313
861526
2207
još uvijek će svijest
14:23
of consciousness.
314
863733
1829
biti iznad nule.
14:25
In effect, he's proposing a fundamental law
315
865562
2539
U stvari, on predlaže fundamentalni zakon
14:28
of consciousness: high phi, high consciousness.
316
868101
3384
svijesti: visok phi, visoka svijest.
14:31
Now, I don't know if this theory is right,
317
871485
2622
Sad, ne znam da li je ova teorija točna,
14:34
but it's actually perhaps the leading theory right now
318
874107
3211
ali je trenutno vodeća teorija
14:37
in the science of consciousness,
319
877318
1386
u znanosti svijesti,
14:38
and it's been used to integrate a whole range
320
878704
2231
i koristi se kako bi integrirala cijeli raspon
14:40
of scientific data,
321
880935
2387
znanstvenih podataka,
14:43
and it does have a nice property that it is in fact simple enough
322
883322
2243
a ima i zgodnu karakteristiku
da je toliko jednostavna
14:45
you can write it on the front of a t-shirt.
323
885565
3495
da je možete napisati na majicu.
14:49
Another final motivation is that
324
889060
2625
Još jedna završna motivacija je da
14:51
panpsychism might help us to integrate
325
891685
2051
panpsihizam može pomoći u integraciji
14:53
consciousness into the physical world.
326
893736
3214
svijesti u fizički svijet.
14:56
Physicists and philosophers have often observed
327
896950
3177
Fizičari i filozofi često su zaključili
15:00
that physics is curiously abstract.
328
900127
2441
da je fizika neobično abstraktna.
15:02
It describes the structure of reality
329
902568
2148
Opisuje strukturu stvarnosti
15:04
using a bunch of equations,
330
904716
2084
koristeći hrpu jednadžbi,
15:06
but it doesn't tell us about the reality
331
906800
3024
ali nam ne govori o stvarnosti
15:09
that underlies it.
332
909824
1568
koja je prožima.
15:11
As Stephen Hawking puts it,
333
911392
1897
Kako je to rekao Stephen Hawking,
15:13
what puts the fire into the equations?
334
913289
4054
što stavlja vatru u te jednadžbe?
15:17
Well, on the panpsychist view,
335
917343
2618
Pa, iz perspektive panpsihista,
15:19
you can leave the equations of physics as they are,
336
919961
2639
možete ostaviti jednadžbe iz fizike kako jesu,
15:22
but you can take them to be describing
337
922600
1564
ali možete uzeti da opisuju
15:24
the flux of consciousness.
338
924164
1674
tijek svijesti.
15:25
That's what physics really is ultimately doing,
339
925838
2038
To je ono što u konačnici fizika čini,
15:27
describing the flux of consciousness.
340
927876
2329
opisuje tijek svijesti.
15:30
On this view, it's consciousness
341
930205
1653
Iz ovog pogleda, svijest je ta
15:31
that puts the fire into the equations.
342
931858
4246
koja stavlja vatru u jednadžbe.
15:36
On that view, consciousness doesn't dangle
343
936104
1660
Iz tog pogleda, svijest ne visi
15:37
outside the physical world
344
937764
1676
izvan fizičkog svijeta
15:39
as some kind of extra.
345
939440
1418
kao neki dodatak.
15:40
It's there right at its heart.
346
940858
3456
Ondje je, u srcu.
15:44
This view, I think, the panpsychist view,
347
944314
2874
Ovaj pogled, pogled panpsihista,
15:47
has the potential to transfigure our relationship
348
947188
3301
ima potencijal za transformiranje našeg odnosa
15:50
to nature,
349
950489
1495
s prirodom,
15:51
and it may have some pretty serious social
350
951984
2235
i možda ima neke ozbiljne društvene
15:54
and ethical consequences.
351
954219
3693
i etičke posljedice.
15:57
Some of these may be counterintuitive.
352
957912
2159
Neke od ovih mogu biti kontraintuitivne.
16:00
I used to think I shouldn't eat anything
353
960071
3071
Nekad sam mislio da ne trebam jesti
ništa što je svjesno,
16:03
which is conscious,
354
963142
2462
16:05
so therefore I should be vegetarian.
355
965604
2604
tako da sam bio vegetarijanac.
16:08
Now, if you're a panpsychist and you take that view,
356
968208
2567
Sad, ako ste panpsihist i gledate tako,
16:10
you're going to go very hungry.
357
970775
2730
bit ćete vrlo gladni.
16:13
So I think when you think about it,
358
973505
1288
Tako da mislim da
16:14
this tends to transfigure your views,
359
974793
2167
to može promijeniti vaš pogled,
16:16
whereas what matters for ethical purposes
360
976960
2243
gdje ono što vrijedi za etičke svrhe
16:19
and moral considerations,
361
979203
1274
i moralna gledišta
16:20
not so much the fact of consciousness,
362
980477
3077
ne vrijedi toliko za činjenice svijesti,
16:23
but the degree and the complexity of consciousness.
363
983554
3956
već za razinu i složenost svijesti.
16:27
It's also natural to ask about consciousness
364
987510
1938
Prirodno je pitati za svijest
16:29
in other systems, like computers.
365
989448
3050
u drugim sustavima, kao računalima.
16:32
What about the artificially intelligent system
366
992498
1789
Što je sa sustavom s umjetnom inteligencijom
16:34
in the movie "Her," Samantha?
367
994287
3442
u filmu "Ona," Samantha?
16:37
Is she conscious?
368
997729
1400
Je li ona svjesna?
16:39
Well, if you take the informational,
369
999129
1431
Ako uzmete informacijski,
16:40
panpsychist view,
370
1000560
1180
panpsihički pogled,
16:41
she certainly has complicated information processing
371
1001740
3471
ona zasigurno ima procesuiranje složenih informacija
16:45
and integration,
372
1005211
1421
i integraciju,
16:46
so the answer is very likely yes, she is conscious.
373
1006632
2667
tako da je odgovor vjerojatno da, svjesna je.
16:49
If that's right, it raises pretty serious
374
1009299
2938
Ako je to točno, to diže ozbiljno
16:52
ethical issues about both the ethics
375
1012237
2365
etičko pitanje vezano uz etiku
16:54
of developing intelligent computer systems
376
1014602
3521
razvoja inteligentnih računalnih sustava
16:58
and the ethics of turning them off.
377
1018123
2736
i etiku gašenja tih sustava.
17:00
Finally, you might ask about the consciousness
378
1020859
2500
Napokon, možete pitati o svijesti
17:03
of whole groups,
379
1023359
1882
čitavih grupa,
17:05
the planet.
380
1025241
1837
planeta.
17:07
Does Canada have its own consciousness?
381
1027078
2923
Ima li Kanada vlastitu svijest?
17:10
Or at a more local level,
382
1030001
2099
Ili na lokalnoj razini,
17:12
does an integrated group
383
1032100
1208
da li integrirana grupa,
17:13
like the audience at a TED conference,
384
1033308
2263
kao publika na TED konferenciji,
17:15
are we right now having a collective TED consciousness,
385
1035571
3449
jesmo li mi sada dio kolektivne TED svijesti,
17:19
an inner movie
386
1039020
1493
nutarnjeg filma
17:20
for this collective TED group
387
1040513
2806
ove kolektivne TED grupe
17:23
which is distinct from the inner movies
388
1043319
1680
koji se razlikuje od nutarnjeg filma
17:24
of each of our parts?
389
1044999
1089
svakoga od nas?
17:26
I don't know the answer to that question,
390
1046088
2155
Ne znam odgovor na to pitanje,
17:28
but I think it's at least one
391
1048253
1371
ali mislim da je to bar jedno
17:29
worth taking seriously.
392
1049624
2474
vrijedno ozbiljno shvatiti.
17:32
Okay, so this panpsychist vision,
393
1052098
2337
Ok, ovaj je panpsihički pogled,
17:34
it is a radical one,
394
1054435
1813
radikalan pogled,
17:36
and I don't know that it's correct.
395
1056248
2214
i ne znam je li točan.
17:38
I'm actually more confident about
396
1058462
1853
Uvjereniji sam
17:40
the first crazy idea,
397
1060315
1633
u prvu ludu ideju,
17:41
that consciousness is fundamental,
398
1061948
2169
da je svijest fundamentalna,
17:44
than about the second one,
399
1064117
1803
nego u drugu,
17:45
that it's universal.
400
1065920
2221
da je univerzalna.
17:48
I mean, the view raises any number of questions,
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Mislim, taj pogled priziva mnoštvo pitanja,
17:50
has any number of challenges,
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ima mnoštvo izazova,
17:51
like how do those little bits
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kao kako ti mali komadići
17:53
of consciousness add up
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svijesti daju
17:54
to the kind of complex consciousness
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složenu svijest
17:57
we know and love.
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kakvu poznajemo i volimo.
17:59
If we can answer those questions,
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Ako možemo odgovoriti na ta pitanja,
18:00
then I think we're going to be well on our way
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tada mislim da ćemo biti na putu
18:02
to a serious theory of consciousness.
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do ozbiljne teorije svijesti.
18:05
If not, well, this is the hardest problem perhaps
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Ako ne, pa, onda je to najteži problem
18:08
in science and philosophy.
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u znanosti i filozofiji.
18:10
We can't expect to solve it overnight.
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Ne možemo očekivati da ćemo ga riješiti preko noći.
18:14
But I do think we're going to figure it out eventually.
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Ali mislim da ćemo kad tad to shvatiti.
18:17
Understanding consciousness is a real key, I think,
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Razumijevanje svijesti je
pravi ključ, ja mislim,
18:20
both to understanding the universe
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kako za shvaćanje svemira
18:23
and to understanding ourselves.
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tako i za shvaćanje nas samih.
18:25
It may just take the right crazy idea.
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Možda nam treba prava luda ideja.
18:28
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
18:30
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
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