How do you explain consciousness? | David Chalmers

翻译人员: chunhua zhang 校对人员: Xing xing Sun

Right now

此时此刻

you have a movie playing inside your head.

正有一部电影在你脑海中放映。

It's an amazing multi-track movie.

这是一部奇妙的多轨道电影。

It has 3D vision and surround sound

这部围绕着你正看到和听到的电影

for what you're seeing and hearing right now,

拥有三维视觉和环绕立体声，

but that's just the start of it.

但这仅仅是个开始。

Your movie has smell and taste and touch.

你的电影有嗅觉、味觉和触觉。

It has a sense of your body,

它拥有你的身体所拥有的感觉，

pain, hunger, orgasms.

痛苦，饥饿，高潮。

It has emotions,

它拥有情绪，

anger and happiness.

愤怒和快乐。

It has memories, like scenes from your childhood

它拥有记忆，就像你的童年

playing before you.

正在你的面前放映。

And it has this constant voiceover narrative

并且它在你的有意识的思维流中

in your stream of conscious thinking.

拥有恒定的旁白。

At the heart of this movie is you

这部电影的核心

experiencing all this directly.

是你直接体验这一切。

This movie is your stream of consciousness,

这部电影是你的意识流，

the subject of experience

它是一部关于

of the mind and the world.

对思想和世界的体验为主题的影片。

Consciousness is one of the fundamental facts

意识是人类之所以存在

of human existence.

的基本事实之一。

Each of us is conscious.

我们每个人都是有意识的。

We all have our own inner movie,

我们都有自己的内心电影，

you and you and you.

包括你、你、还有你。

There's nothing we know about more directly.

没有什么是我们能直接了解的。

At least, I know about my consciousness directly.

至少，我能直接了解我的意识。

I can't be certain that you guys are conscious.

我不确定你们是否也能意识到这点。

Consciousness also is what makes life worth living.

意识也是一种让生命值得活下去的东西。

If we weren't conscious, nothing in our lives

如果我们没有意识，那么我们生命中的任何事情

would have meaning or value.

都失去了意义和价值。

But at the same time, it's the most

同时，意识也是

mysterious phenomenon in the universe.

最宇宙中最神秘的现象。

Why are we conscious?

为什么我们会有意识？

Why do we have these inner movies?

为什么我们会有这些内心电影？

Why aren't we just robots

为什么我们不只是那种

who process all this input,

处理输入

produce all that output,

再输出结果

without experiencing the inner movie at all?

而不会体验任何内心电影的机器人？

Right now, nobody knows the answers

目前为止，没有人知道这个问题

to those questions.

的答案。

I'm going to suggest that to integrate consciousness

我想说如果要将意识整合

into science, some radical ideas may be needed.

到科学中去，一些激进的想法也许是需要的。

Some people say a science of consciousness

有人说意识科学

is impossible.

是不可能存在的。

Science, by its nature, is objective.

科学，从它的本质上来看，是客观的。

Consciousness, by its nature, is subjective.

意识，从它的本质上来看，是主观的。

So there can never be a science of consciousness.

所以，不可能会有意识科学。

For much of the 20th century, that view held sway.

在20世纪的大部分时间里，这种观点占据统治地位。

Psychologists studied behavior objectively,

心理学家客观地研究行为举止，

neuroscientists studied the brain objectively,

神经科学家客观地研究大脑，

and nobody even mentioned consciousness.

但是没有人哪怕是提到意识。

Even 30 years ago, when TED got started,

即使30年前，当TED刚开始时，

there was very little scientific work

也很少见到关于意识方面

on consciousness.

的科学研究。

Now, about 20 years ago,

大约在20年前，

all that began to change.

所有这些都开始改变了。

Neuroscientists like Francis Crick

像弗朗西斯·克里克这样的神经科学家

and physicists like Roger Penrose

以及像罗杰·彭罗斯这样的物理学家

said now is the time for science

都说现在正是科学向意识方面进攻

to attack consciousness.

的时候。

And since then, there's been a real explosion,

从那以来，

a flowering of scientific work

关于意识方面的科学研究

on consciousness.

遍地开花。

And this work has been wonderful. It's been great.

这项研究很奇妙，很了不起。

But it also has some fundamental

但是迄今为止它也还有一些

limitations so far.

根本的局限性。

The centerpiece

近几年

of the science of consciousness in recent years

意识科学研究的核心

has been the search for correlations,

是寻找相关性，

correlations between certain areas of the brain

关于大脑的特定区域

and certain states of consciousness.

和特定的意识状态之间的相关性。

We saw some of this kind of work

我们看了南希·坎维舍

from Nancy Kanwisher and the wonderful work

做的一些这方面的研究以及几分钟之前

she presented just a few minutes ago.

她刚刚提交的精彩工作。

Now we understand much better, for example,

现在我们有了更好的理解，例如，

the kinds of brain areas that go along with

不同的大脑区域对应着不同

the conscious experience of seeing faces

的意识体验：人脸识别

or of feeling pain

或者感受痛苦

or of feeling happy.

或者感受快乐。

But this is still a science of correlations.

但这仍然是关于相关性的科学。

It's not a science of explanations.

这不是意识科学。

We know that these brain areas

我们知道这些大脑区域

go along with certain kinds of conscious experience,

对应着特定的意识体验，

but we don't know why they do.

但是我们不知道为什么会这样。

I like to put this by saying

我想说的是，

that this kind of work from neuroscience

神经科学方面的这种研究

is answering some of the questions

正回答着那些

we want answered about consciousness,

我们想要回答的关于意识、

the questions about what certain brain areas do

关于某些特定大脑区域做些什么

and what they correlate with.

以及对应哪种（意识体验）的问题。

But in a certain sense, those are the easy problems.

但是从某种意义上来说，这些都是简单的问题。

No knock on the neuroscientists.

都不是神经科学家想要研究的。

There are no truly easy problems with consciousness.

没有真正的关于意识的简单问题。

But it doesn't address the real mystery

它没能解开关于这个课题的核心

at the core of this subject:

的真正谜团：

why is it that all that physical processing in a brain

为什么大脑中所有的物理过程

should be accompanied by consciousness at all?

必须伴随着意识？

Why is there this inner subjective movie?

为什么会有这种内心的主观电影的存在？

Right now, we don't really have a bead on that.

目前为止，我们对此还没有一点头绪。

And you might say,

也许你会说，

let's just give neuroscience a few years.

让我们再给神经科学几年时间。

It'll turn out to be another emergent phenomenon

它会被证明是另一种涌现现象，

like traffic jams, like hurricanes,

就像塞车、就像飓风、

like life, and we'll figure it out.

就像生命一样，并且我们会弄明白它。

The classical cases of emergence

所有涌现现象的经典案例

are all cases of emergent behavior,

都是应急行为的表现，

how a traffic jam behaves,

塞车是如何行成的，

how a hurricane functions,

飓风是如何作用的，

how a living organism reproduces

生物体是如何繁殖、

and adapts and metabolizes,

适应环境和新陈代谢的，

all questions about objective functioning.

所有这些问题都是关于客观机能的。

You could apply that to the human brain

你可以把它应用到人类的大脑上

in explaining some of the behaviors

去解释为什么人类大脑的某些行为

and the functions of the human brain

和功能

as emergent phenomena:

跟涌现现象很像：

how we walk, how we talk, how we play chess,

我们如何走路，如何谈话，如何下象棋，

all these questions about behavior.

所有这些问题都是关于行为的。

But when it comes to consciousness,

但是当谈到意识时，

questions about behavior

关于行为的问题

are among the easy problems.

只是一个简单的问题。

When it comes to the hard problem,

当涉及到困难问题时，

that's the question of why is it

问题就变成了为什么

that all this behavior

所有的这些行为

is accompanied by subjective experience?

都伴随着主观体验。

And here, the standard paradigm

对此，涌现现象

of emergence,

的标准范例，

even the standard paradigms of neuroscience,

甚至神经科学的标准范例，

don't really, so far, have that much to say.

到目前为止都没有太多可以说的。

Now, I'm a scientific materialist at heart.

现在，我本质上是一个科学唯物主义者。

I want a scientific theory of consciousness

我希望某种关于意识的科学理论

that works,

能够奏效，

and for a long time, I banged my head

在过去很长一段时间里，

against the wall

我埋头苦干，

looking for a theory of consciousness

努力寻找一种有效的

in purely physical terms

单从物理的角度去解释的

that would work.

关于意识的理论。

But I eventually came to the conclusion

但我最终得出一个结论，

that that just didn't work for systematic reasons.

那就是它不起作用只是因为系统性的原因。

It's a long story,

说来话长，

but the core idea is just that what you get

但是这个故事的核心就是

from purely reductionist explanations

你从在物理方面，在基于大脑方面的

in physical terms, in brain-based terms,

纯粹的还原论者的解释中得到的东西，

is stories about the functioning of a system,

是关于一个系统的功能、

its structure, its dynamics,

它的结构、它的动力、

the behavior it produces,

以及它所产生的行为的，

great for solving the easy problems —

它可以很好地解决简单问题——

how we behave, how we function —

比如说我们如何表现，我们如何活动——

but when it comes to subjective experience —

但是当它涉及到主观体验时——

why does all this feel like something from the inside? —

比如说为什么所有这些都感觉像是来自内心的某些东西？——

that's something fundamentally new,

这是一些全新的东西，

and it's always a further question.

并且它总会成为一个更深层次的问题。

So I think we're at a kind of impasse here.

因此我想我们进入了僵局。

We've got this wonderful, great chain of explanation,

我们已经有了一套美妙的、伟大的解释链，

we're used to it, where physics explains chemistry,

我们已经习惯了它，那就是用用物理解释化学，

chemistry explains biology,

用化学解释生物，

biology explains parts of psychology.

用生物解释部分心理学。

But consciousness

但是意识

doesn't seem to fit into this picture.

似乎并不符合这种情形。

On the one hand, it's a datum

一方面，它是一个已知数

that we're conscious.

即我们是有意识的。

On the other hand, we don't know how

另一方面，我们却并不知道

to accommodate it into our scientific view of the world.

如何使它与我们的科学的世界观相适应。

So I think consciousness right now

所以我认为就目前而言意识

is a kind of anomaly,

是一种反常事物，

one that we need to integrate

是一种需要我们将它整合到

into our view of the world, but we don't yet see how.

我们的世界观中，而我们却还不知道如何整合的事物。

Faced with an anomaly like this,

面对这样的反常事物，

radical ideas may be needed,

我们可能需要一些激进的想法，

and I think that we may need one or two ideas

并且我认为我们可能需要一两个

that initially seem crazy

在我们可以科学地

before we can come to grips with consciousness

面对意识之前

scientifically.

看起来很疯狂的想法。

Now, there are a few candidates

现在，对于这些疯狂的想法可能是什么

for what those crazy ideas might be.

已经有了一些候选项。

My friend Dan Dennett, who's here today, has one.

我的朋友丹·丹尼特就有一个这样的想法，他今天也在这里。

His crazy idea is that there is no hard problem

他的疯狂想法是关于意识

of consciousness.

的困难问题并不存在。

The whole idea of the inner subjective movie

整个内心主观电影的想法

involves a kind of illusion or confusion.

涉及一种幻觉或困惑。

Actually, all we've got to do is explain

事实上，我们现在要做的就是解释

the objective functions, the behaviors of the brain,

客观功能和大脑行为，

and then we've explained everything

然后自然地我们就解释了

that needs to be explained.

所有需要被解释的。

Well I say, more power to him.

我想说，给他更多的能量。

That's the kind of radical idea

这就是那种我们需要去探索的

that we need to explore

激进想法，

if you want to have a purely reductionist

如果你想获得关于意识的

brain-based theory of consciousness.

纯还原论者的基于大脑的理论的话。

At the same time, for me and for many other people,

同时，对于我和其他很多人来说，

that view is a bit too close to simply

这个观点有一点太接近于简单地

denying the datum of consciousness

否认关于意识的已知资料

to be satisfactory.

而不能令人满意。

So I go in a different direction.

因此我选择了另一个不同的方向。

In the time remaining,

在余下的时间里，

I want to explore two crazy ideas

我想探讨两个我认为可能有希望的

that I think may have some promise.

疯狂想法。

The first crazy idea

第一种疯狂想法是

is that consciousness is fundamental.

意识是一种基本概念。

Physicists sometimes take some aspects of the universe

物理学家有时候会把宇宙中的某些方面

as fundamental building blocks:

作为基本概念，如：

space and time and mass.

空间、时间和质量。

They postulate fundamental laws governing them,

他们设定了一些基本定律去管理它们，

like the laws of gravity or of quantum mechanics.

例如重力定律和量子力学定律。

These fundamental properties and laws

这些基本性质和定律

aren't explained in terms of anything more basic.

不能解释一些更基础的东西。

Rather, they're taken as primitive,

这相当于以它们为根本，

and you build up the world from there.

然后你在它们的基础上建立这个世界。

Now sometimes, the list of fundamentals expands.

现在，这张基本定律名单会不时扩大。

In the 19th century, Maxwell figured out

在19世纪，麦克斯韦断定

that you can't explain electromagnetic phenomena

你无法用当时存在的基本概念——

in terms of the existing fundamentals —

空间、时间、质量、牛顿定律——

space, time, mass, Newton's laws —

去解释电磁现象，

so he postulated fundamental laws

因此他设定了电磁学的

of electromagnetism

基本定律，

and postulated electric charge

并且设定了电荷

as a fundamental element

作为这些定律的

that those laws govern.

基本元素。

I think that's the situation we're in

我认为这与我们在研究意识上的

with consciousness.

情形是一样的。

If you can't explain consciousness

如果我们不能用现存的基本概念——

in terms of the existing fundamentals —

时间、空间、质量、电荷——

space, time, mass, charge —

去解释意识，

then as a matter of logic, you need to expand the list.

那么从逻辑上而言，你需要去扩充这张名单。

The natural thing to do is to postulate

接下来将意识本身设定为

consciousness itself as something fundamental,

某种根本性的东西，

a fundamental building block of nature.

作为自然界的基本概念就是一件自然而然的事。

This doesn't mean you suddenly can't do science with it.

这并不意味着突然间你不能用它来研究科学了。

This opens up the way for you to do science with it.

这反而是为你开僻了一条用它来研究科学的道路。

What we then need is to study

然后我们需要做的就是研究

the fundamental laws governing consciousness,

那些掌控着意识的基本定律，

the laws that connect consciousness

那些将意识与其它基本概念——

to other fundamentals: space, time, mass,

空间、时间、质量、物理过程——

physical processes.

联系在一起的定律。

Physicists sometimes say

物理学家有时候说

that we want fundamental laws so simple

我们希望那些基本定律可以简单到

that we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.

能够把它们写在T恤上。

Well I think something like that is the situation

我想我们在对意识的研究上

we're in with consciousness.

也应该这样。

We want to find fundamental laws so simple

我希望我们发现的关于意识的基本定律也可以简单到

we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.

能够把它们写在T恤上。

We don't know what those laws are yet,

我们现在还不知道这些定律是什么，

but that's what we're after.

但这是我们正在寻找的。

The second crazy idea

第二个疯狂的想法

is that consciousness might be universal.

是意识也许是普通存在的。

Every system might have some degree

也许每个系统都有某种程度的

of consciousness.

意识。

This view is sometimes called panpsychism:

这种观点有时被称作泛心论：

pan for all, psych for mind,

万物皆有精神或心理活动，

every system is conscious,

每个系统都具有意识，

not just humans, dogs, mice, flies,

不仅是人类、狗、老鼠、苍蝇，

but even Rob Knight's microbes,

甚至连罗伯·奈特的微生物、

elementary particles.

基本粒子都具有意识。

Even a photon has some degree of consciousness.

甚至连一个光子都有某种程度的意识。

The idea is not that photons are intelligent

这个观点不是说光子是智能的

or thinking.

或者能思考的。

It's not that a photon

不是说一个光子

is wracked with angst

会由于焦虑而被破坏，

because it's thinking, "Aww, I'm always buzzing around near the speed of light.

而这种焦虑是因为它想着“哦，我总是以接近光速的速度

I never get to slow down and smell the roses."

紧张地跑来跑去，从来没有放慢速度来闻一闻玫瑰花香“。

No, not like that.

不，事情不是这样子的。

But the thought is maybe photons might have

这种观点想要表达的是也许光子可能会有

some element of raw, subjective feeling,

一些原始的、主观的体验，

some primitive precursor to consciousness.

一些原始的意识的前兆。

This may sound a bit kooky to you.

对你来说，这听起来可能有点怪。

I mean, why would anyone think such a crazy thing?

我的意思是，为什么不可以有人思考这样疯狂的事呢？

Some motivation comes from the first crazy idea,

有一些动机来自第一个疯狂想法，

that consciousness is fundamental.

即意识是基本概念。

If it's fundamental, like space and time and mass,

如果它是基本概念，就像空间、时间和质量一样，

it's natural to suppose that it might be universal too,

那么很自然地可以假定它也可能具有普遍性，

the way they are.

就像其它的基本概念一样。

It's also worth noting that although the idea

还有一点值得注意的是虽然这个想法

seems counterintuitive to us,

对我们来说是违反直觉的，

it's much less counterintuitive to people

但对来自其他文化的人来说

from different cultures,

可能就不是那么违反直觉了，

where the human mind is seen as much more

那些（其他文化的）人的心灵

continuous with nature.

跟自然联系在一起的时间更长。

A deeper motivation comes from the idea that

从这个想法中得到的一个更深的动机是

perhaps the most simple and powerful way

也许找出将意识与物理过程

to find fundamental laws connecting consciousness

联系在一起的

to physical processing

最简单和最有力的方式

is to link consciousness to information.

就是将意识与信息相结合。

Wherever there's information processing,

有信息处理的地方

there's consciousness.

就有意识。

Complex information processing, like in a human,

复杂的信息处理，比如说人类的信息处理，

complex consciousness.

伴随着复杂的意识。

Simple information processing,

简单的信息处理，

simple consciousness.

伴随着简单的意识。

A really exciting thing is in recent years

一件令人很兴奋的事是最近几年

a neuroscientist, Giulio Tononi,

有一个神经科学家，朱利奥·托诺尼

has taken this kind of theory

采用了这种理论

and developed it rigorously

并且严格按照数学理论

with a mathematical theory.

的方式发展了它。

He has a mathematical measure

他有一个关于信息整合

of information integration

的数学测量，

which he calls phi,

他称之为phi，

measuring the amount of information

他用它来测量

integrated in a system.

一个系统中的信息整合的量。

And he supposes that phi goes along

他推断phi

with consciousness.

是与意识相关的。

So in a human brain,

所以在人类的大脑中，

incredibly large amount of information integration,

有着令人难以置信的信息整合量，

high degree of phi,

高度的phi值，

a whole lot of consciousness.

一大堆的意识。

In a mouse, medium degree of information integration,

在老鼠的大脑中，有中度的信息整合量，

still pretty significant,

但仍然数目庞大，

pretty serious amount of consciousness.

仍然具有大量的意识。

But as you go down to worms,

但是当你将研究目标降至蠕虫、

microbes, particles,

微生物、粒子，

the amount of phi falls off.

phi的值就会跌落。

The amount of information integration falls off,

信息整合量会跌落，

but it's still non-zero.

但不会为零。

On Tononi's theory,

在托诺尼的理论中，

there's still going to be a non-zero degree

意识程度

of consciousness.

也不会降为零。

In effect, he's proposing a fundamental law

事实上，他正在提出这样一个关于意识的

of consciousness: high phi, high consciousness.

基本定律：phi值越高，意识度也越高。

Now, I don't know if this theory is right,

现在，我不知道这个理论是否正确，

but it's actually perhaps the leading theory right now

但是实际上或许它正处于

in the science of consciousness,

意识科学的理论前沿，

and it's been used to integrate a whole range

并且它已经被用于整合

of scientific data,

各方面的科学数据，

and it does have a nice property that it is in fact simple enough

它还有一个很好的属性就是它足够简单，

you can write it on the front of a t-shirt.

简单到你可以将它写在T恤上。

Another final motivation is that

另外一个最终动机就是

panpsychism might help us to integrate

泛心论可以帮助我们

consciousness into the physical world.

将意识和物理世界相结合。

Physicists and philosophers have often observed

物理学家和哲学家经常注意到

that physics is curiously abstract.

物理学是深奥抽象的。

It describes the structure of reality

它用一连串的方程式

using a bunch of equations,

去描述现实结构，

but it doesn't tell us about the reality

但是它又不告诉我们

that underlies it.

构成它的现实基础。

As Stephen Hawking puts it,

正如史蒂芬·霍金所说，

what puts the fire into the equations?

是什么将火放进方程式的？

Well, on the panpsychist view,

而在泛心论者看来，

you can leave the equations of physics as they are,

物理方程可以是它现在的样子，

but you can take them to be describing

但是你也可以用它来描述

the flux of consciousness.

意识的量。

That's what physics really is ultimately doing,

这是物理学最终要做的，

describing the flux of consciousness.

描述意识的量。

On this view, it's consciousness

用这种观点看来，是意识

that puts the fire into the equations.

将火放到了方程中。

On that view, consciousness doesn't dangle

在那种观点看来，意识

outside the physical world

不是晃荡在物质世界之外

as some kind of extra.

的特别的东西。

It's there right at its heart.

它存在于物质世界的核心。

This view, I think, the panpsychist view,

我认为，这种泛心论者的观点，

has the potential to transfigure our relationship

有那种使我们对我们与自然的关系产生改观

to nature,

的潜能，

and it may have some pretty serious social

并且它可能产生一些相当严重的

and ethical consequences.

社会和伦理方面的后果。

Some of these may be counterintuitive.

它们当中的一些可能是违反直觉的。

I used to think I shouldn't eat anything

我曾经想我不可以

which is conscious,

吃任何有意识的东西，

so therefore I should be vegetarian.

因此我要做一个素食主义者。

Now, if you're a panpsychist and you take that view,

但是现，如果你是一个泛心论者并且采用这种观点，

you're going to go very hungry.

你只能挨饿。

So I think when you think about it,

因此我想当你思考它的时候，

this tends to transfigure your views,

这将会使你有改变观点的倾向，

whereas what matters for ethical purposes

然而对于伦理目标

and moral considerations,

和道德考量来说

not so much the fact of consciousness,

最重要的不是关于意识的事实，

but the degree and the complexity of consciousness.

而是意识的程度和复杂性。

It's also natural to ask about consciousness

探讨其它系统，比如说电脑中的意识

in other systems, like computers.

也是一件很自然的事情。

What about the artificially intelligent system

比如说电影《她》中的

in the movie "Her," Samantha?

人工智能系统萨曼莎是什么情况？

Is she conscious?

她有意识吗？

Well, if you take the informational,

如果你用这种信息性的，

panpsychist view,

泛心论者的角度来看，

she certainly has complicated information processing

她的确能进行复杂的信息处理

and integration,

和整合，

so the answer is very likely yes, she is conscious.

所以答案很有可能是“是”，她是有意识的。

If that's right, it raises pretty serious

如果这个答案正确的话，

ethical issues about both the ethics

那么不管是开发智能计算机系统

of developing intelligent computer systems

或者关闭他们

and the ethics of turning them off.

都会引起严重的伦理问题。

Finally, you might ask about the consciousness

最后，你可能会询问

of whole groups,

集体意识、

the planet.

行星的意识。

Does Canada have its own consciousness?

加拿大有它自己的意识吗？

Or at a more local level,

或者在一个更地方的层面来说，

does an integrated group

一个由一场TED大会的听众

like the audience at a TED conference,

所组成的集体

are we right now having a collective TED consciousness,

拥有集体的TED意识吗，

an inner movie

这个TED集体

for this collective TED group

的内在电影

which is distinct from the inner movies

是与我们每个人自己

of each of our parts?

的内在电影不同吗？

I don't know the answer to that question,

我不知道这个问题的答案，

but I think it's at least one

但我觉得至少它

worth taking seriously.

值得重视。

Okay, so this panpsychist vision,

好了，这就是泛心论者的观点，

it is a radical one,

它是一个激进的想法，

and I don't know that it's correct.

而我不知道它是否正确。

I'm actually more confident about

事实上我对第一个疯狂想法

the first crazy idea,

即意识是一种基本概念，

that consciousness is fundamental,

要比对第二个疯狂想法

than about the second one,

即意识是普遍存在的

that it's universal.

要更有把握。

I mean, the view raises any number of questions,

我的意思是，这个观点引起了很多问题，

has any number of challenges,

拥有很多挑战，

like how do those little bits

比如说那些小的意识

of consciousness add up

是如何添加到

to the kind of complex consciousness

我们了解和喜爱

we know and love.

的复杂意识中去的。

If we can answer those questions,

如果我们能够回答这些问题，

then I think we're going to be well on our way

那么我想我们就会在通往

to a serious theory of consciousness.

关于意识的严肃理论的道路上顺利走下去。

If not, well, this is the hardest problem perhaps

如果不能，那么这可能成为

in science and philosophy.

科学上和哲学上最难解的问题。

We can't expect to solve it overnight.

我们不能期盼一个晚上就能解决这个问题。

But I do think we're going to figure it out eventually.

但是我相信我们终将弄明白它。

Understanding consciousness is a real key, I think,

我想，理解意识是

both to understanding the universe

我们理解宇宙

and to understanding ourselves.

和理解我们自己的一个关键。

It may just take the right crazy idea.

而做到这一点也许只需要我们采用正确的疯狂想法。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）