Misha Glenny: Hire the hackers!

Translator: Laura Gago Caamaño Reviewer: Patricia Álvarez

Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do,

Isto non é unha cousa TED,

but let's kick off the afternoon

pero comecemos a tarde

with a message

cunha mensaxe

from a mystery sponsor.

dun patrocinador misterioso.

Anonymous: Dear Fox News,

Anónimo: Ás noticias de Fox,

it has come to our unfortunate attention

por desgraza chamounos a atención

that both the name and nature of Anonymous

que se fixeron estragos co nome e coa natureza

has been ravaged.

dos Anónimos.

We are everyone. We are no one.

Somos todos. Somos ninguén.

We are anonymous. We are legion.

Somos Anónimos. Somos unha lexión.

We do not forgive. We do not forget.

Non perdoamos. Non esquecemos.

We are but the base of chaos.

Non somos máis que a base do caos.

Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen --

Misha Glenny: Anónimos, damas e cabaleiros,

a sophisticated group

un grupo sofisticado

of politically motivated hackers

de piratas informáticos motivados políticamente

who have emerged in 2011.

que xurdiu no 2011.

And they're pretty scary.

E dan bastante medo.

You never know when they're going to attack next,

Nunca sabes cando volverán a atacar,

who or what the consequences will be.

quen o cales serán as consecuencias.

But interestingly,

Pero curiosamente,

they have a sense of humor.

teñen sentido do humor.

These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account

Estes mozos metéronse no Twitter das Fox News

to announce President Obama's assassination.

para anunciar que o Presidente Obama fora asasinado.

Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated

Imaxinen o pánico que iso provocaría

in the newsroom at Fox.

na sala de prensa de Fox.

"What do we do now?

"¿Que facemos agora?

Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?"

¿Poñémonos un brazalete negro ou descorchamos champaña?"

(Laughter)

(Risas)

And of course, who could escape the irony

E por suposto, ¿quen pode escapar á ironía

of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.

de que a vítima de piratería fose, para variar,

being a victim of hacking for a change.

un membro da News Corp de Rupert Murdoch?

(Laughter)

(Risas)

(Applause)

(Aplausos)

Sometimes you turn on the news

Ás veces pos as noticias

and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?"

e pensas, "¿queda alguén por piratear?"

Sony Playstation Network -- done,

Sony Playstation Network... feito,

the government of Turkey -- tick,

o goberno de Turquía... feito,

Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze,

a Axencia Británica contra o Crime Organizado... pan comido,

the CIA -- falling off a log.

a CIA... carne sen ósos.

In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry

De feito, un amigo que traballa na seguridade

told me the other day

díxome o outro día

that there are two types of companies in the world:

que no mundo hai dous tipos de empresas:

those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't.

as que saben que foron pirateadas, e as que non.

I mean three companies

Tres empresas

providing cybersecurity services to the FBI

que dan servizos de seguridade informática ao FBI

have been hacked.

foron pirateadas.

Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?

¡Polo amor de Deus! ¿Xa non queda nada sacro?

Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous --

De tódolos xeitos, o grupo misterioso Anónimos,

and they would say this themselves --

(eles mesmos aseguraríano)

they are providing a service

proporcionan un servizo

by demonstrating how useless companies are

ao demostrar o inútiles que son as compañías

at protecting our data.

que protexen os nosos datos.

But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous --

Pero tamén hai un aspecto moi serio sobre Anónimos:

they are ideologically driven.

perseguen unha ideoloxía.

They claim that they are battling

Reivindican que loitan

a dastardly conspiracy.

contra unha vil conspiración.

They say that governments are trying

Afirman que os gobernos

to take over the Internet and control it,

tratan de apoderarse e controlar Internet,

and that they, Anonymous,

e que eles, Anónimos,

are the authentic voice of resistance --

son a verdadeira voz da resistencia;

be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships,

xa sexa contra as ditaduras do Oriente Medio,

against global media corporations,

contra as empresas mundiais de medios,

or against intelligence agencies,

contra as axencias de intelixencia,

or whoever it is.

ou contra quen sexa.

And their politics are not entirely unattractive.

E as súas políticas son atractivas,

Okay, they're a little inchoate.

aínda que un pouco rudimentarias.

There's a strong whiff

Cheiran bastante

of half-baked anarchism about them.

a anarquismo a medias.

But one thing is true:

Pero algo é certo:

we are at the beginning

atopámonos ao comezo

of a mighty struggle

dunha gran loita

for control of the Internet.

polo control de Internet.

The Web links everything,

A web úneo todo e,

and very soon

moi pronto,

it will mediate most human activity.

mediará en case toda a actividade humana.

Because the Internet has fashioned

Porque Internet puxo de moda

a new and complicated environment

un entorno novo e complicado

for an old-age dilemma

para un vello dilema

that pits the demands of security

que enfronta as demandas de seguridade

with the desire for freedom.

co desexo de liberdade.

Now this is a very complicated struggle.

Pero esta é unha loita moi complicada.

And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me,

E por desgraza, os mortais coma Vde. e eu,

we probably can't understand it very well.

seguramente non o entendamos moi ben.

Nonetheless,

No entanto,

in an unexpected attack of hubris

nun ataque inseperado de arrogancia

a couple of years ago,

fai un par de anos,

I decided I would try and do that.

decidín que tentaría facelo.

And I sort of get it.

E en certo xeito fíxeno.

These were the various things that I was looking at

Estas eran tódalas cousas que miraba

as I was trying to understand it.

mentres tentaba entendelo.

But in order to try and explain the whole thing,

Pero para intentar explicar o asunto

I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it,

necesitaría outros 18 minutos,

so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion,

así que esta vez teredes que confiar en min,

and let me assure you that all of these issues

e asegúrolles que todas estas cuestións

are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet

teñen que ver coa seguridade e o control de Internet

one way or the other,

dunha ou outra forma,

but in a configuration

pero de tal maneira

that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty

que ata Stephen Hawking tería dificultades

trying to get his head around.

ao intentar entendela.

So there you are.

Así que ahí o teñen.

And as you see, in the middle,

E como ven, no medio,

there is our old friend, the hacker.

o noso amigo, o pirata informático.

The hacker is absolutely central

O hacker é o responsable

to many of the political, social

de moitos dos problemas políticos,

and economic issues affecting the Net.

sociais e económicos que afectan á Rede.

And so I thought to myself,

E por iso pensei:

"Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to."

"Estos son os mozos cos que quero falar".

And what do you know,

E, ¿saben que?

nobody else does talk to the hackers.

Ninguén máis fala cos hackers.

They're completely anonymous, as it were.

Parece que de verdade sí son anónimos.

So despite the fact

Así que a pesar

that we are beginning to pour billions,

de que comezamos a investir miles de millóns,

hundreds of billions of dollars,

centos de miles de millóns de dólares,

into cybersecurity --

na seguridade informática

for the most extraordinary technical solutions --

(para as solucións técnicas máis insólitas)

no one wants to talk

ninguén quere falar

to these guys, the hackers,

con estes mozos, os hackers,

who are doing everything.

responsables de todo.

Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions,

En vez diso, preferimos estas solucións tecnolóxicas cegadoras,

which cost a huge amount of money.

que custan moito diñeiro.

And so nothing is going into the hackers.

E non se destina nada aos hackers.

Well, I say nothing,

Bueno, digo nada,

but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit

pero en realidade hai unha diminuta unidade de investigación

in Turin, Italy

en Turín, Italia

called the Hackers Profiling Project.

chamada Proxecto de Perfís de Hackers.

And they are doing some fantastic research

E están a facer investigacións incribles

into the characteristics,

sobre as características,

into the abilities

as habilidades

and the socialization of hackers.

e a socialización dos hackers.

But because they're a U.N. operation,

Pero como é unha operación da ONU,

maybe that's why governments and corporations

é quizáis por iso que os gobernos e as empresas

are not that interested in them.

non están interesados neles.

Because it's a U.N. operation,

E como é unha operación de ONU

of course, it lacks funding.

carece de financiamento.

But I think they're doing very important work.

Pero creo que están facendo un traballo moi importante.

Because where we have a surplus of technology

Porque onde temos un superávit de tecnoloxía

in the cybersecurity industry,

na industria da seguridade informática,

we have a definite lack of --

temos unha clara falta de...

call me old-fashioned --

(chámenme anticuado)

human intelligence.

...intelixencia humana.

Now, so far I've mentioned

Ata agora mencionei

the hackers Anonymous

aos hackers Anónimos

who are a politically motivated hacking group.

que son un grupo con motivacións políticas.

Of course, the criminal justice system

Claro que o sistema de xustiza penal

treats them as common old garden criminals.

trátaos como aos típicos delincuentes comúns.

But interestingly,

Pero, curiosamente,

Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information

os Anónimos non usan a información pirateada

for financial gain.

para obter ganancias.

But what about the real cybercriminals?

¿E os ciberdelincuentes de verdade?

Well real organized crime on the Internet

O cibercrime organizado real

goes back about 10 years

remóntase 10 anos atrás

when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers

cando un grupo de hackers prodixio ucraínos

developed a website,

desenvolveron a páxina web

which led to the industrialization

que levou á industrialización

of cybercrime.

do cibercrime.

Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet.

Benvidos agora ao reino esquecido de CarderPlanet.

This is how they were advertising themselves

Así é como se publicitaban

a decade ago on the Net.

na Rede fai unha década.

Now CarderPlanet was very interesting.

CarderPlanet era moi interesante.

Cybercriminals would go there

Os cibercriminais irían alí

to buy and sell stolen credit card details,

a comprar e vender datos roubados de tarxetas de crédito,

to exchange information

para intercambiar información

about new malware that was out there.

sobre o novo malware que alí se atopaba.

And remember, this is a time

Lembren que era unha época

when we're seeing for the first time

na que vimos por primeira vez

so-called off-the-shelf malware.

o chamado malware comercial.

This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff,

É material listo para usar,

which you can deploy

que se pode pór en práctica

even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.

aínda que non sexas un hacker moi sofisticado.

And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket

Así, CarderPlanet convértese nunha especie de supermercado

for cybercriminals.

para ciberdelincuentes.

And its creators

E os seus creadores

were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial,

foron moi intelixentes e emprendedores,

because they were faced

xa que se enfrontaron

with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals.

a un enorme reto como son os ciberdelincuentes.

And that challenge is:

O reto é:

How do you do business,

¿Como facer negocios,

how do you trust

como confiar

somebody on the Web who you want to do business with

nalguén da Rede con quen queres facer negocios

when you know that they're a criminal?

cando sabes que son delincuentes?

(Laughter)

(Risas)

It's axiomatic that they're dodgy,

Está na súa natureza ser pouco fiables

and they're going to want to try and rip you off.

e quererán estafarche.

So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known,

Polo que a familia, como se coñecía ao núcleo interno de CarderPlanet,

came up with this brilliant idea

apareceu con esta idea brillante

called the escrow system.

chamada "sistema de garantía".

They appointed an officer

Nomearon a un encargado

who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser.

que mediaría entre o vendedor e o comprador.

The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details;

O vendedor, digamos, roubara os datos da tarxeta de crédito;

the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them.

e o comprador quería conseguilas.

The purchaser would send the administrative officer

O comprador envíalle ao administrativo

some dollars digitally,

algúns dólares en electrónico,

and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details.

e o vendedor envíalle os datos da tarxeta de crédito roubada.

And the officer would then verify

Entón o encargado verificará

if the stolen credit card worked.

se a tarxeta roubada funcionou.

And if they did,

E se o facía

he then passed on the money to the vendor

entón pasáballe o diñeiro ao vendedor

and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser.

e os datos da tarxeta roubada ao comprador.

And it was this

E foi isto

which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web.

o que revolucionou o cibercrime na Web.

And after that, it just went wild.

E despois diso explotou.

We had a champagne decade

Foi unha década dourada

for people who we know as Carders.

para a xente coñecida como Carders.

Now I spoke to one of these Carders

Eu falei cun deses Carders

who we'll call RedBrigade --

ao que chamaremos RedBrigade,

although that wasn't even his proper nickname --

aínda que ese non era o seu verdadeiro alcume,

but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was.

pero prometín que non revelaría quen era.

And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004

Explicoume como no 2003 e no 2004

he would go on sprees in New York,

íase de festa por Nova York,

taking out $10,000 from an ATM here,

sacando 10.000 dólares dun caixeiro automático,

$30,000 from an ATM there,

30.000 doutro,

using cloned credit cards.

usando tarxetas de crédito clonadas.

He was making, on average a week,

Tiña un promedio por semana

$150,000 --

de $150.000,

tax free of course.

libres de impostos, claro.

And he said

E dixo

that he had so much money

que tiña tanto diñeiro

stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point

escondido no seu apartamento de luxo de Manhatan

that he just didn't know what to do with it

que non sabía que facer con el

and actually fell into a depression.

e ata caeu nunha depresión.

But that's a slightly different story,

Pero iso é unha historia diferente,

which I won't go into now.

da que non vou falar agora.

Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade

Pero o interesante de RedBrigade

is that he wasn't an advanced hacker.

é que non era un hacker avanzado.

He sort of understood the technology,

Medio entendía algo da tecnoloxía

and he realized that security was very important

e dábase conta de que a seguridade era moi importante

if you were going to be a Carder,

se un quería ser un Carder,

but he didn't spend his days and nights

pero non pasaba día e noite

bent over a computer, eating pizza,

diante do ordenador, comendo pizza,

drinking coke and that sort of thing.

bebendo coca-cola e esas cousas.

He was out there on the town

Andaba na cidade

having a fab time enjoying the high life.

pasándoo ben, disfrutando da boa vida.

And this is because

E isto débese a que

hackers are only one element

os hackers son só un elemento

in a cybercriminal enterprise.

na cadea do cibercrime.

And often they're the most vulnerable element of all.

E polo xeral son o elemento máis vulnerable.

And I want to explain this to you

Voullo explicar

by introducing you to six characters

presentándolles a seis personaxes

who I met

que coñecín

while I was doing this research.

durante esta investigación.

Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT --

Dimitry Golubov, alias SCRIPT,

born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982.

que naceu en Odessa, Ucrania en 1982.

Now he developed his social and moral compass

Desenvolveu o seu compás social e moral

on the Black Sea port during the 1990s.

no porto do Mar Negro durante a década dos 90.

This was a sink-or-swim environment

Neste ambiente ou te adaptabas ou morrías

where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities

e o participar en actividades corruptas ou criminais

was entirely necessary

era totalmente necesario

if you wanted to survive.

se querías sobrevivir.

As an accomplished computer user,

Como usuario experto de ordenadores,

what Dimitry did

Dimitry levou

was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown

o capitalismo mafioso da súa cidade natal

onto the Worldwide Web.

á rede de todo o mundo.

And he did a great job in it.

E fixo un gran traballo.

You have to understand though

Hai que entender

that from his ninth birthday,

que dende os nove anos

the only environment he knew

o único ambiente que coñeceu

was gangsterism.

foi o das mafias.

He knew no other way of making a living

Non coñecía outra forma de gañarse a vida

and making money.

e de conseguir diñeiro.

Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam,

O seguinte é Renukanth Subramaniam,

aka JiLsi --

alias JiLsi,

founder of DarkMarket,

fundador de DarkMarket,

born in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

e nacido en Colombo, Sri Lanka.

As an eight year-old,

Aos oito anos

he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital

fuxiu cos seus pais á capital de Sri Lanka

because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city,

porque as bandas cingalesas vagaban pola cidade,

looking for Tamils like Renu to murder.

en busca de Tamils como Renu para asasinar.

At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military,

Con 11 anos o Exército de Sri Lanka interrogouno,

accused of being a terrorist,

acusándoo de terrorismo,

and his parents sent him on his own to Britain

e os seus pais enviárono a Gran Bretaña

as a refugee seeking political asylum.

como refuxiado en busca de asilo político.

At 13,

Aos 13,

with only little English and being bullied at school,

con pouco inglés e tras ser amedrentado na escola,

he escaped into a world of computers

refuxiouse no mundo dos ordenadores

where he showed great technical ability,

no que mostrou gran habilidade técnica,

but he was soon being seduced

pero pronto se deixou seducir

by people on the Internet.

pola xente de Internet.

He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud,

Condenárono por fraude hipotecario e de tarxetas de crédito,

and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London

e sairá do cárcere de Wormwood Scrubs de Londres

in 2012.

no 2012.

Matrix001,

Matrix 001

who was an administrator at DarkMarket.

foi administrador en DarkMarket.

Born in Southern Germany

Naceu no sur de Alemaña

to a stable and well-respected middle class family,

nunha respetable familia de clase media,

his obsession with gaming as a teenager

e a súa obsesión adolescente polos xogos

led him to hacking.

levouno á piratería.

And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world

Pronto controlou grandes servidores en todo o mundo

where he stored his games

nos que gardaba os xogos

that he had cracked and pirated.

que saqueara e pirateara.

His slide into criminality

A súa incursión na delincuencia

was incremental.

foi en aumento.

And when he finally woke up to his situation

E cando se deu conta da situación

and understood the implications,

e entendeu as consecuencias,

he was already in too deep.

xa era tarde.

Max Vision, aka ICEMAN --

Max Vision, alias ICEMAN,

mastermind of CardersMarket.

cerebro de CardersMarket.

Born in Meridian, Idaho.

Nacido en Meridian, Idaho.

Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers

Dos mellores en probas de penetración, a finais dos 90

working out of Santa Clara, California

traballaba en Santa Clara, California,

in the late 90s for private companies

para compañías privadas

and voluntarily for the FBI.

e como voluntario para o FBI.

Now in the late 1990s,

A finais dos 90,

he discovered a vulnerability

descubriu unha vulnerabilidade

on all U.S. government networks,

en tódalas redes do goberno de EE.UU.

and he went in and patched it up --

e púxolle un parche,

because this included nuclear research facilities --

xa que incluía ás instalacións de investigación nuclear,

sparing the American government

evitándolle ao goberno estadounidense

a huge security embarrassment.

unha enorme vergoña na seguridade.

But also, because he was an inveterate hacker,

Pero, como hacker emprendedor que era,

he left a tiny digital wormhole

deixou un pequeno burato de verme dixital

through which he alone could crawl.

polo que só el podía entrar.

But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator,

Pero un investigador observador descubriuno,

and he was convicted.

e acusárono.

At his open prison,

No réxime de cárcere aberto,

he came under the influence of financial fraudsters,

deixouse influír polos defraudadores financeiros,

and those financial fraudsters

que o convenceron

persuaded him to work for them

de que traballase para eles

on his release.

trala súa liberación.

And this man with a planetary-sized brain

E este home de cerebro a escala planetaria

is now serving a 13-year sentence

está a cumprir unha condena de 13 anos

in California.

en California.

Adewale Taiwo, aka FreddyBB --

Adewale Taiwo, alias FeddyBB,

master bank account cracker

ciberladrón de contas bancarias.

from Abuja in Nigeria.

de Abuja, Nixeria.

He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup,

Creou o seu grupo cun nome pouco orixinal,

[email protected]

[email protected],

before arriving in Britain

antes de chegar a Gran Bretaña

in 2005

no 2005

to take a Masters in chemical engineering

para facer un máster en Enxeñaría Química

at Manchester University.

na Universidade de Manchester.

He impressed in the private sector,

Sorprendeu ao sector privado

developing chemical applications for the oil industry

ao desenvolver productos químicos para a industria petroleira

while simultaneously running

mentres levaba ao mesmo tempo

a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions

un fraude bancario e de tarxetas de crédito millonario a nivel mundial

until his arrest in 2008.

ata que o arrestaron no 2008.

And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan,

E por último, Cagatay Evyapan,

aka Cha0 --

alias Cha0,

one of the most remarkable hackers ever,

un dos hackers máis extraodinarios da historia,

from Ankara in Turkey.

de Ankara, Turquía.

He combined the tremendous skills of a geek

Combinou as formidables habilidades dun friki

with the suave social engineering skills

coas da enxeñaría social

of the master criminal.

dun mestre da delincuencia.

One of the smartest people I've ever met.

Unha das persoas máis intelixentes que coñecín.

He also had the most effective

Tamén tiña a rede de seguridade

virtual private network security arrangement

virtual e privada máis eficaz

the police have ever encountered

coa que a policía se atopou

amongst global cybercriminals.

entre os cibercriminais do mundo.

Now the important thing

Pero o importante

about all of these people

de toda esta xente

is they share certain characteristics

é que comparten certas características

despite the fact that they come from very different environments.

a pesar de que veñen de ambientes diferentes.

They are all people who learned their hacking skills

Todos aprenderon a piratería

in their early to mid-teens.

a comezos da adolescencia.

They are all people

Todos eles

who demonstrate advanced ability

demostraron unha gran capacidade

in maths and the sciences.

para as matemáticas e as ciencias.

Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills,

Lembren que, cando desenvoleron esas habilidades,

their moral compass had not yet developed.

aínda non desenvolveran o seu compás moral.

And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0,

E a maioría, salvo SCRIPT e Cha0,

they did not demonstrate

non demostraron

any real social skills in the outside world --

habilidades sociais no mundo exterior,

only on the Web.

só na Web.

And the other thing is

E a outra cousa é

the high incidence of hackers like these

o alto índice de hackers coma estes

who have characteristics which are consistent

con características que concordan

with Asperger's syndrome.

coa síndrome de Asperger.

Now I discussed this

Debatín isto

with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen

co profesor Simon Baron-Cohen

who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge.

que ensina psicopatoloxía do desenvolvemento en Cambridge.

And he has done path-breaking work on autism

Levou a cabo unha labor pioneira no autismo

and confirmed, also for the authorities here,

e confirmou, tamén para as autoridades locais,

that Gary McKinnon --

que Gary McKinnon,

who is wanted by the United States

buscado polos Estados Unidos

for hacking into the Pentagon --

por piratear o sistema do Pentágono,

suffers from Asperger's

sofre de Asperger

and a secondary condition

e unha condición secundaria

of depression.

de depresión.

And Baron-Cohen explained

Baron-Cohen explicou

that certain disabilities

que certas discapacidades

can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world

poden manifestarse como habilidades formidables

as tremendous skills,

no mundo virtual e da piratería,

and that we should not be throwing in jail

e que non deberiamos meter no cárcere

people who have such disabilities and skills

a xente con esas discapacidades e habilidades

because they have lost their way socially

porque se descarriaron socialmente

or been duped.

ou foron enganados.

Now I think we're missing a trick here,

Pero aquí falta algo,

because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail.

porque non creo que xente como Max Vision deba estar no cárcere.

And let me be blunt about this.

Permítanme ser franco.

In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries

Na China, en Rusia e en moitos outros países

that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities,

nos que se están desenvolvendo capacidades ciberofensivas,

this is exactly what they are doing.

isto é exactamente o que están a facer.

They are recruiting hackers

Están recrutando hackers

both before and after they become involved

antes e despois de que se involucren

in criminal and industrial espionage activities --

en actividades de espionaxe criminal e industrial;

are mobilizing them

estanos mobilizando

on behalf of the state.

en nome do Estado.

We need to engage

Temos que atraer

and find ways of offering guidance

e atopar medios para orientar

to these young people,

a eses mozos

because they are a remarkable breed.

porque son unha xeración sorprendente.

And if we rely, as we do at the moment,

E se confiamos, como ata agora,

solely on the criminal justice system

só no sistema de xustiza penal

and the threat of punitive sentences,

e na ameaza das penas punitivas,

we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.

estaremos alimentando a un monstro que non poderemos amansar.

Thank you very much for listening.

Moitas grazas por escoitarme.

(Applause)

(Aplausos)

Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading

Chris Anderson: Así que a túa idea

is hire hackers.

é contratar aos hackers.

How would someone get over that kind of fear

¿Como superar esa especie de temor

that the hacker they hire

de que o hacker contratado

might preserve that little teensy wormhole?

preserve ese verme dixital?

MG: I think to an extent,

MG: Creo que ata certo punto

you have to understand

un ten que entender

that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that.

que está na natureza dos hackers facelo.

They're just relentless and obsessive

Son implacables e obsesivos

about what they do.

co que fan.

But all of the people who I've spoken to

Pero tódalas persoas coas que falei

who have fallen foul of the law,

que infrinxiron a lei,

they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance

dixeron, "por favor, denos unha oportunidade

to work in the legitimate industry.

de traballar na industria lexítima.

We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing.

Nunca soubemos como chegar ata alí, nin o que estabamos facendo.

We want to work with you."

Queremos traballar contigo".

Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.

Chris Anderson: Ben, ten sentido. Moitas grazas Misha.

(Applause)

(Aplausos)