Misha Glenny: Hire the hackers!

Translator: Christian Nymark Reviewer: Jonas Tholstrup Christensen

Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do,

Det her er ikke en 'TED-agtig' ting at gøre

but let's kick off the afternoon

men lad os starte eftermiddagen

with a message

med en besked

from a mystery sponsor.

fra en hemmelig sponsor.

Anonymous: Dear Fox News,

Anonymous: Kære Fox Nyheder,

it has come to our unfortunate attention

vi er uheldigvis blevet gjort opmærksom på

that both the name and nature of Anonymous

at både Anynomous navn og natur

has been ravaged.

er blevet skamferet.

We are everyone. We are no one.

Vi er alle. Vi er ingen.

We are anonymous. We are legion.

Vi er Anonymous. Vi er en legion.

We do not forgive. We do not forget.

Vi tilgiver intet. Vi glemmer intet.

We are but the base of chaos.

Vi er kernen af kaos.

Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen --

Misha Glenny: Anonymous, mine damer og herrer -

a sophisticated group

er en sofistikeret gruppe

of politically motivated hackers

af politisk motivered hackere

who have emerged in 2011.

som opstod i 2011.

And they're pretty scary.

Og de er temmelig skræmmende.

You never know when they're going to attack next,

Man ved aldrig hvornår de slår til igen

who or what the consequences will be.

og for hvem eller hvad konsekvenserne vil berøre.

But interestingly,

Men interessant nok

they have a sense of humor.

så har de en humoristisk sans.

These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account

De her gutter hackede Fox News Twitter konto

to announce President Obama's assassination.

for at annoncere Præsident Obama's snigmord.

Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated

I kan forestille jer den panik det må have skabt

in the newsroom at Fox.

i Foxs nyhedsrum.

"What do we do now?

"Hvad gør vi nu?

Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?"

Skal vi tage et sort armbånd på eller åbne en flaske champagne og fejre det?"

(Laughter)

(Latter)

And of course, who could escape the irony

Og alle kan se det ironiske i

of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.

at et medlem af Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.

being a victim of hacking for a change.

er blevet et offer for hacking til en forandring.

(Laughter)

(Latter)

(Applause)

(Applaus)

Sometimes you turn on the news

Når man tænder for nyhederne

and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?"

kan man nogengangen spørge sig selv: "Er der nogen tilbage at hacke?"

Sony Playstation Network -- done,

Sony Playstation Network - er gjort,

the government of Turkey -- tick,

Tyrkiets regering - tjek

Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze,

Englands Agentur for seriøs organiseret kriminalitet - snildt klaret

the CIA -- falling off a log.

CIA - som at klø sig i nakken.

In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry

Forleden fortalte en af mine

told me the other day

venner fra sikkerhedsbranchen mig

that there are two types of companies in the world:

at der er to slags selskaber i verden:

those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't.

dem der ved de er blevet hacket og dem der ikke ved det.

I mean three companies

Tre selskaber der

providing cybersecurity services to the FBI

leverer internetsikkerhed til FBI

have been hacked.

er blevet hacket.

Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?

Er intet helligt længere, for pokker da?

Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous --

Nuvel, denne mystiske Anonymous-gruppe -

and they would say this themselves --

og det her ville de selv sige -

they are providing a service

de leverer en service

by demonstrating how useless companies are

for at demonstrere hvor nyttesløse selskaber er

at protecting our data.

til at beskytte vores data.

But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous --

Men der er også et meget alvorligt aspekt vedrørende Anonymous -

they are ideologically driven.

de er drevet af ideologi.

They claim that they are battling

De påstår at de bekæmper

a dastardly conspiracy.

en nedrig sammensværgelse.

They say that governments are trying

De påstår at regeringer prøver

to take over the Internet and control it,

at overtage internettet og kontrollere det

and that they, Anonymous,

og at de, Anonymous,

are the authentic voice of resistance --

er den autentiske modstands stemme -

be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships,

om det er imod Mellemøstens diktatorer,

against global media corporations,

imod verdens globale medie virksomheder,

or against intelligence agencies,

eller imod efterretningstjenester

or whoever it is.

eller hvem det nu kunne være.

And their politics are not entirely unattractive.

Og deres politik er ikke helt uattraktiv.

Okay, they're a little inchoate.

Jeg medgiver at de er lidt ustøbte

There's a strong whiff

Der er en snert

of half-baked anarchism about them.

a halvkogt anarkisme ved dem.

But one thing is true:

Men en ting er rigtigt:

we are at the beginning

vi er ved begyndelse

of a mighty struggle

af en storstilet konflikt

for control of the Internet.

om kontrollen af internettet.

The Web links everything,

Nettet linker til alting

and very soon

og meget snart

it will mediate most human activity.

vil det formidle al menneskelig aktivtet.

Because the Internet has fashioned

Fordi internettet har skabt

a new and complicated environment

et nyt og kompliceret miljø

for an old-age dilemma

i et oldgammelt dilemma

that pits the demands of security

hvor man har krav om sikkerhed på den ene side

with the desire for freedom.

og ønsket om frihed på den anden.

Now this is a very complicated struggle.

Det er en meget kompliceret strid.

And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me,

Og uheldigvis for os dødelige

we probably can't understand it very well.

kan vi næppe forstå den særlig godt.

Nonetheless,

Ikke desto mindre

in an unexpected attack of hubris

fik jeg en uventet indskydelse af overmod

a couple of years ago,

for et par år siden

I decided I would try and do that.

og jeg besluttede at prøve netop det.

And I sort of get it.

Og jeg forstår det sådan set.

These were the various things that I was looking at

Det her er hvad jeg kiggede på

as I was trying to understand it.

da jeg prøvede at forstå det.

But in order to try and explain the whole thing,

Men for at forsøge at forklare det

I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it,

skal jeg bruge yderligere 18 minutter eller deromkring

so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion,

så I er nødt til at stole på mig i denne anledning

and let me assure you that all of these issues

og lad mig forsikre jer om at alle disse elementer

are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet

er involveret i internetsikkerhed og kontrol af internettet

one way or the other,

på den ene eller anden anden måde,

but in a configuration

bare i en opstilling

that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty

som selv Stephen Hawking ville have svært

trying to get his head around.

ved at fatte.

So there you are.

Der har i det.

And as you see, in the middle,

Som i kan se, er der i midten

there is our old friend, the hacker.

vores gamle ven hackeren.

The hacker is absolutely central

Hackeren er helt central

to many of the political, social

i mange af de politiske, sociale

and economic issues affecting the Net.

og økonomiske udfordringer på nettet.

And so I thought to myself,

Derfor tænkte jeg

"Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to."

"Jamen, det er da disse gutter jeg må snakke med."

And what do you know,

Og det viser sig at

nobody else does talk to the hackers.

ingen andre snakker med hackerne.

They're completely anonymous, as it were.

De er helt anonyme viser det sig.

So despite the fact

Så til trods for det faktum

that we are beginning to pour billions,

at vi smider milliader,

hundreds of billions of dollars,

hundredevis af milliarder af dollars

into cybersecurity --

i internetsikkerhed -

for the most extraordinary technical solutions --

for at få de mest utrolige tekniske løsninger -

no one wants to talk

så er der ingen der gider snakke

to these guys, the hackers,

med de her gutter, hackerne,

who are doing everything.

som er roden til det hele.

Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions,

I stedet foretrækker vi de her forbløffende tekniske løsninger

which cost a huge amount of money.

som koster enorme summer penge.

And so nothing is going into the hackers.

Og ingen af de penge bliver brugt på hackerne.

Well, I say nothing,

Nuvel, nu siger jeg ingen,

but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit

men der er faktisk en lille bitte efterforskningsenhed

in Turin, Italy

i Turin i Italien

called the Hackers Profiling Project.

som kaldes Hackers Profiling Project.

And they are doing some fantastic research

Og de laver noget fantastisk efterforskning

into the characteristics,

i de karakteristiske træk

into the abilities

og egenskaber

and the socialization of hackers.

og socialisering mellem hackerne.

But because they're a U.N. operation,

Men fordi de er en FN operation

maybe that's why governments and corporations

kunne det være grunden til at regeringer og virksomheder

are not that interested in them.

ikke er så interesseret i dem.

Because it's a U.N. operation,

Fordi det er en FN operation

of course, it lacks funding.

mangler de selvfølgelig økonomisk støtte.

But I think they're doing very important work.

Men jeg mener de laver et meget vigtigt stykke arbejde.

Because where we have a surplus of technology

Fordi der hvor vi har et overskud af teknologi

in the cybersecurity industry,

i sikkerhedsindustrien

we have a definite lack of --

har vi en betydelig mangel på -

call me old-fashioned --

for at være lidt gammeldags -

human intelligence.

menneskelig efterretning.

Now, so far I've mentioned

Indtil videre har jeg nævnt

the hackers Anonymous

hackerne fra Anonymous

who are a politically motivated hacking group.

som er en politisk motiveret hackergruppe.

Of course, the criminal justice system

Selvfølgelig behandler retssystemet dem

treats them as common old garden criminals.

som andre gammeldags kriminelle.

But interestingly,

Men interessant nok

Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information

har Anonymous ikke gjort brug af de hackede informationer

for financial gain.

for at få et økonomisk udbytte.

But what about the real cybercriminals?

Hvad med de rigtige cyberkriminelle?

Well real organized crime on the Internet

Grundigt organiseret kriminalitet på nettet

goes back about 10 years

går cirka 10 år tilbage i tiden

when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers

da en gruppe talentfulde ukrainske hackere

developed a website,

lavede en hjemmeside

which led to the industrialization

som førte til industrialiseringen

of cybercrime.

af cyberkriminalitet.

Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet.

Velkommen til den nu glemte region; Carderplanet.

This is how they were advertising themselves

Det her er sådan de reklamerede for sig selv

a decade ago on the Net.

for et årti siden på nettet.

Now CarderPlanet was very interesting.

CarderPlanet var interessant.

Cybercriminals would go there

Cyberkriminelle ville gå derhen

to buy and sell stolen credit card details,

for at købe og sælge stjålne kreditkort oplysninger,

to exchange information

og for at udveksle informationer

about new malware that was out there.

om nyt malware der var udkommet.

And remember, this is a time

Husk på at det her er en tid

when we're seeing for the first time

hvor vi for første gang så

so-called off-the-shelf malware.

såkaldt "køb-det-og-brug-det" malware.

This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff,

Det er klar til brug lige som det bliver købt

which you can deploy

og man kan bruge det

even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.

selvom man ikke er en særligt sofistikeret hacker.

And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket

Så CarderPlanet blev et slags supermarked

for cybercriminals.

for cyberkriminelle.

And its creators

Og dets ophavsmænd

were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial,

var utroligt smarte og initiativrige

because they were faced

fordi de jo måtte stå imod

with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals.

den enorme udfordring de havde som cyberkriminelle.

And that challenge is:

Og den udfordring var:

How do you do business,

Hvordan skal man drive forretning og

how do you trust

stole på dem

somebody on the Web who you want to do business with

på nettet som du gør forretninger med

when you know that they're a criminal?

når du ved at de er kriminelle?

(Laughter)

(Latter)

It's axiomatic that they're dodgy,

Det er axiomatisk at det er skumle typer

and they're going to want to try and rip you off.

og at de vil forsøge at snyde dig.

So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known,

Derfor fik familien som den hårde kerne i CarderPlanet var kendt som

came up with this brilliant idea

en genial ide

called the escrow system.

som de kaldte for deponeringssystemet.

They appointed an officer

De udnævnte en tillidsmand

who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser.

som skulle forhandle mellem køber og sælger.

The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details;

Sælgeren, som f.eks. havde stjålne kreditkort informationer,

the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them.

og køberen som gerne villle have disse informationer.

The purchaser would send the administrative officer

Køberen ville så sende den administrative tillidsmand

some dollars digitally,

nogle penge digitalt

and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details.

og sælgeren ville så sælge kreditkort informationerne.

And the officer would then verify

Og tillidsmanden ville så verificere

if the stolen credit card worked.

om det stjålne kreditkort virkede.

And if they did,

Og hvis det gjorde det

he then passed on the money to the vendor

ville han aflevere pengene videre til sælgeren

and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser.

og de stjålne kreditkort informationer til køberen.

And it was this

Og det var dette

which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web.

som fuldstændigt revolutionerede cyberkriminalitet på nettet.

And after that, it just went wild.

Efter det gik det amok.

We had a champagne decade

Det var et festligt årti

for people who we know as Carders.

for dem som vi kender som Carders.

Now I spoke to one of these Carders

Jeg har talt med en af disse Carders

who we'll call RedBrigade --

som vi kan kalde for RedBrigade -

although that wasn't even his proper nickname --

selvom det ikke var hans rigtige øgenavn -

but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was.

men jeg har lovet ham at jeg ikke ville afsløre hvem han var.

And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004

Og han forklarede mig hvordan han i 2003 og 2004

he would go on sprees in New York,

ville gå på rov i New York

taking out $10,000 from an ATM here,

og hæve $10.000 fra en automat,

$30,000 from an ATM there,

$30.000 fra en anden

using cloned credit cards.

ved at bruge klonede kreditkort.

He was making, on average a week,

På en gennemsnitlig uge tjente han

$150,000 --

$150.000 -

tax free of course.

skattefrit selvfølgelig.

And he said

Og han sagde

that he had so much money

at han havde så mange penge

stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point

gemt væk i sin upper-East side lejlighed på et tidspunkt

that he just didn't know what to do with it

at han ikke anede hvad han skulle gøre med dem

and actually fell into a depression.

og han endte faktisk med en depression.

But that's a slightly different story,

Men det er en lidt anden historie

which I won't go into now.

som jeg ikke vil dykke ned i nu.

Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade

Det interessante ved RedBrigade

is that he wasn't an advanced hacker.

er at han ikke var en advanceret hacker.

He sort of understood the technology,

Han forstod nogenlunde teknologien

and he realized that security was very important

og han forstod at sikkerhed var meget vigtigt

if you were going to be a Carder,

hvis man skulle være en Carder,

but he didn't spend his days and nights

men han spenderede ikke dag og nat

bent over a computer, eating pizza,

bøjet over computeren, mens han spiste pizza

drinking coke and that sort of thing.

og drak cola og den slags.

He was out there on the town

Han gik i byen,

having a fab time enjoying the high life.

morede sig i et liv i sus og dus.

And this is because

Og det er fordi

hackers are only one element

at hackere kun er et element

in a cybercriminal enterprise.

i et cyberkriminel foretagende.

And often they're the most vulnerable element of all.

Ofte er de det mest sensitive af alle elementerne.

And I want to explain this to you

Jeg vil gerne prøve at forklare det

by introducing you to six characters

ved at introducere seks forskellige personer

who I met

som jeg har mødt

while I was doing this research.

mens jeg lavede denne efterforskning.

Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT --

Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT -

born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982.

født i Odessa, Ukraine i 1982.

Now he developed his social and moral compass

Han udviklede sit sociale og moralske kompas

on the Black Sea port during the 1990s.

på havnen nær Sortehavet i 90'erne.

This was a sink-or-swim environment

Det var et vind-eller-forsvind miljø

where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities

hvor det var nødvendigt at være en del af kriminelle

was entirely necessary

eller korrupte aktiviter

if you wanted to survive.

hvis man ville overleve.

As an accomplished computer user,

Som en øvet computerbruger

what Dimitry did

brugte Dimitry

was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown

sin tid på at overføre penge fra banderne fra hans hjemby

onto the Worldwide Web.

til internettet.

And he did a great job in it.

Og han gjorde et fremragende stykke arbejde.

You have to understand though

Man er nødt til at forstå

that from his ninth birthday,

at han siden niårs-alderen

the only environment he knew

kun havde oplevet dette

was gangsterism.

hårdkogte bandemiljø.

He knew no other way of making a living

Han kendte ikke andre måder

and making money.

at tjene penge.

Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam,

Så har vi Renukanth Subramaniam,

aka JiLsi --

aka JiLsi -

founder of DarkMarket,

stifteren af DarkMarket,

born in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

født i Colombo, Sri Lanka.

As an eight year-old,

Som 8-årig flygtede

he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital

ham og hans forældre fra Sri Lankas hovedstad

because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city,

fordi Singhalesiske oprørere farede rundt i byen

looking for Tamils like Renu to murder.

og ledte efter Tamilere som Renu, som de kunne slå ihjel.

At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military,

Som 11-årig blev han afhørt af Sri Lankas militær,

accused of being a terrorist,

anklaget for at være terrorist

and his parents sent him on his own to Britain

og hans forældre sendte ham alene til England

as a refugee seeking political asylum.

som en politisk flygtning der søgte asyl.

At 13,

Som 13-årig

with only little English and being bullied at school,

med kun dårlige engelsk-kundskaber, blev han drillet i skolen,

he escaped into a world of computers

og han flygtede ind i en verden af computere

where he showed great technical ability,

hvor han udviste stort tekniske snilde,

but he was soon being seduced

men snart skulle han blive forført

by people on the Internet.

af folk på internettet.

He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud,

Han blev dømt for realkredit svindel og kreditkort svindel

and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London

og han vil blive løsladt fra Wormwood Scrubs fængslet i London

in 2012.

i 2012.

Matrix001,

Matrix001,

who was an administrator at DarkMarket.

som var administrator på DarkMarket,

Born in Southern Germany

blev født i det sydlige Tyskland,

to a stable and well-respected middle class family,

i en stabil og respektabel middelklasse familie.

his obsession with gaming as a teenager

Hans besættelse af computerspil som teenager

led him to hacking.

førte ham til at hacke.

And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world

Snart kontrollerede han kæmpe store servere rundt omkring i verden

where he stored his games

hvor han havde gemt sit spil

that he had cracked and pirated.

som han havde sikkerhedsbrudt og piratkopieret.

His slide into criminality

Hans synken ind i kriminalitet

was incremental.

var tiltagende.

And when he finally woke up to his situation

Og da han endelig vågnede op

and understood the implications,

og forstod implikationerne af hans handlinger

he was already in too deep.

var det allerede for sent.

Max Vision, aka ICEMAN --

Max Vision, aka ICEMAN -

mastermind of CardersMarket.

bagmanden bag cardersMarket.

Born in Meridian, Idaho.

Født i Meridian, Idaho.

Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers

Max Vision var en af de bedste kodebrydningstestere

working out of Santa Clara, California

som arbejde i Santa Clara, Californien

in the late 90s for private companies

i sen-90'erne for private selskaber

and voluntarily for the FBI.

og medlte sig som frivillig for FBI.

Now in the late 1990s,

I slut 90'erne

he discovered a vulnerability

opdagede han en sårbårhed

on all U.S. government networks,

på alle netværk i den amerikanske regering

and he went in and patched it up --

og han gik i gang med at lave det -

because this included nuclear research facilities --

fordi dette inkluderede atom-forsknings faciliteter -

sparing the American government

og derved sparede han den amerikanske regering

a huge security embarrassment.

for en meget pinlig sag.

But also, because he was an inveterate hacker,

Men fordi han var en vanlig hacker,

he left a tiny digital wormhole

efterlod han et lille digitalt ormehul

through which he alone could crawl.

hvilket han alene kunne komme igennem.

But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator,

Men det blev opdaget af et falkeblik hos en efterforsker

and he was convicted.

og han blev dømt.

At his open prison,

I hans åbne fængsel

he came under the influence of financial fraudsters,

blev han influeret af økonomisk kriminelle snydere

and those financial fraudsters

og disse snydere

persuaded him to work for them

overtalte ham til at arbejde for sig

on his release.

da han blev løsladt.

And this man with a planetary-sized brain

Og manden med mega-hjernen

is now serving a 13-year sentence

afsoner nu en 13-årig straf

in California.

i Californien.

Adewale Taiwo, aka FreddyBB --

Adewale Taiwo, aka FeddyBB -

master bank account cracker

mester bankkonto nedbryder

from Abuja in Nigeria.

fra Abuja i Negeria.

He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup,

Han lavede hans kunstfærdigt navngivne nyhedsgruppe

[email protected]

[email protected]

before arriving in Britain

før han ankom til England

in 2005

i 2005

to take a Masters in chemical engineering

for at tage en kandidat-grad som kemiingeniør

at Manchester University.

på Manchester University.

He impressed in the private sector,

Han imponerede i den private sektor

developing chemical applications for the oil industry

ved at udvikle kemiske applikationer til olie-industrien

while simultaneously running

mens han samtidigt kørte

a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions

en verdensomspændede bank og kreditkort svindels-operation som var millioner værd

until his arrest in 2008.

indtil hans arrestering i 2008.

And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan,

Og sidst, Cagatay Evyapan,

aka Cha0 --

aka Cha0 -

one of the most remarkable hackers ever,

en af de mest opsigtsvækkende hackere nogensinde,

from Ankara in Turkey.

fra Ankara i Tyrkiet.

He combined the tremendous skills of a geek

Han kombineret de uhyre talenter som nørd

with the suave social engineering skills

med de charmerende sociale træk

of the master criminal.

fra en verdensklasses forbryder.

One of the smartest people I've ever met.

Han er et af de klogeste mennesker jeg har mødt.

He also had the most effective

Han havde også det mest effektive,

virtual private network security arrangement

virtual private network sikkerhedssystem

the police have ever encountered

politiet nogensinde havde stødt på

amongst global cybercriminals.

blandt globale cyberkriminelle.

Now the important thing

Det vigtige blandt

about all of these people

alle disse mennesker er

is they share certain characteristics

at de deler visse ligheder

despite the fact that they come from very different environments.

til trods for det faktum at de kommer fra vidt forskellige miljøer.

They are all people who learned their hacking skills

Det er allesammen mennesker der lærte deres hacker-evner

in their early to mid-teens.

mens de var i deres teenage-år.

They are all people

Det er allesammen

who demonstrate advanced ability

mennesker der har usædvanlige evner

in maths and the sciences.

indenfor matematik og naturvidenskaberne.

Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills,

Husk på at da de udviklede deres hackerevner

their moral compass had not yet developed.

havde de endnu ikke udviklet en moralsk sans.

And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0,

Og de fleste af dem, med undtagelse af SCRIPT og Cha0,

they did not demonstrate

demonstrerede ikke

any real social skills in the outside world --

nogle egentlige sociale færdigheder i den virkelige verden -

only on the Web.

kun op internettet.

And the other thing is

En anden ting er

the high incidence of hackers like these

det høje antal af hackere som disse

who have characteristics which are consistent

der har konsistente karakteristika

with Asperger's syndrome.

fra Asperger's syndrom.

Now I discussed this

Jeg har diskuteret dette

with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen

med Prof. Simon Baron-Cohen

who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge.

som er professor i udviklingsmental psykopathologi ved Cambridge.

And he has done path-breaking work on autism

Og han har lavet banebrydende arbejde med autisme

and confirmed, also for the authorities here,

og bekræftet, også for autoriteterne her i landet,

that Gary McKinnon --

at Gary McKinnon -

who is wanted by the United States

som er efterlyst i USA

for hacking into the Pentagon --

for at hacke Pentagon -

suffers from Asperger's

lider af Asperger's

and a secondary condition

og samtidig har

of depression.

en depression.

And Baron-Cohen explained

Og Baron-Cohen forklarede

that certain disabilities

at visse handikap

can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world

kan manifestere sig i hacking- og computerverdenen

as tremendous skills,

som abnorme evner,

and that we should not be throwing in jail

og vi burde ikke smide folk i fængsel

people who have such disabilities and skills

som har disse handikap og evner

because they have lost their way socially

fordi de har mistet deres sociale retning

or been duped.

eller er blevet snydt.

Now I think we're missing a trick here,

Jeg synes der mangler en pointe her

because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail.

for jeg synes ikke at folk som Max Vision burde være i fængsel.

And let me be blunt about this.

Tillad mig at være ligefrem.

In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries

I Kina, Rusland og massere af andre lande

that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities,

som udvikler cyber-offensive kapaciteter

this is exactly what they are doing.

er det præcist hvad de gør.

They are recruiting hackers

De hyrer hackere

both before and after they become involved

både før og efter de bliver involveret

in criminal and industrial espionage activities --

i kriminalitet og industri espionage -

are mobilizing them

og mobiliserer dem

on behalf of the state.

på vegne af staten.

We need to engage

Vi har behov for handling

and find ways of offering guidance

så vi kan finde måder at tilbyde vejledning

to these young people,

til disse unge mennesker på,

because they are a remarkable breed.

for de er af en utrolig støbning.

And if we rely, as we do at the moment,

Hvis vi kun skal læne os op ad retssystemet

solely on the criminal justice system

som vi gør i øjeblikket

and the threat of punitive sentences,

og truslen med fængelsstraffe,

we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.

så fostrer vi en monster vi ikke kan tæmme.

Thank you very much for listening.

Mange tak fordi I lyttede.

(Applause)

(Applaus)

Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading

Chris Anderson: Så din ide vil skal sprede

is hire hackers.

er at hyre hackerne.

How would someone get over that kind of fear

Hvordan skal man overkomme den frygt

that the hacker they hire

at når man hyrer en hacker

might preserve that little teensy wormhole?

efterlader han måske et lille bitte ormehul?

MG: I think to an extent,

MG: Jeg tror til en vis udstrækning

you have to understand

at man må forstå

that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that.

at det er axiomatisk blandt hackere at gøre netop det.

They're just relentless and obsessive

De er blot utrætteligt og besatte

about what they do.

af det de gør.

But all of the people who I've spoken to

Men alle dem jeg har snakket med

who have fallen foul of the law,

som er kommet i klinch med loven,

they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance

har alle sagt: "Vi vil så gerne have en chance

to work in the legitimate industry.

for at arbejde i en legitim industri.

We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing.

Vi vidste bare aldrig hvordan vi skulle gøre det eller hvad vi gjorde.

We want to work with you."

Vi vil gerne arbejde med jer."

Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.

Chris Anderson: Okay, det giver mening. Tusind tak, Misha.

(Applause)

(Applaus)