Misha Glenny: Hire the hackers!

譯者: Wang-Ju Tsai 審譯者: Regina Chu

Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do,

這實在很不TED

but let's kick off the afternoon

但是讓我們用這個

with a message

神秘贊助者的簡訊

from a mystery sponsor.

來開始下午的節目。

Anonymous: Dear Fox News,

匿名者：親愛的福斯新聞

it has come to our unfortunate attention

很不幸地我們注意到了

that both the name and nature of Anonymous

“匿名者”名聲和本體

has been ravaged.

已遭到破壞

We are everyone. We are no one.

我們既不存在也無所不在

We are anonymous. We are legion.

我們是傳奇但也默默無名

We do not forgive. We do not forget.

我們不原諒 我們也不會忘記

We are but the base of chaos.

我們是一切混亂的根源

Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen --

Misha Glenny：在座的各位，匿名者

a sophisticated group

是一個因政治理念而成立的

of politically motivated hackers

很複雜的團體

who have emerged in 2011.

于2011年浮現抬面

And they're pretty scary.

他們很可怕

You never know when they're going to attack next,

你永遠不知道他們下一個攻擊目標是什麽

who or what the consequences will be.

誰或什麽又會遭殃

But interestingly,

但是很有趣的是

they have a sense of humor.

他們很有幽默感

These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account

他們侵入了福斯新聞的推特帳號

to announce President Obama's assassination.

借此發表了歐巴馬遇刺的消息

Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated

你現在可以想像當時在福斯新聞室裏

in the newsroom at Fox.

造成的一片驚慌

"What do we do now?

“我們現在該怎麽辦？

Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?"

該帶黑臂帶致哀還是開香檳慶祝？”

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And of course, who could escape the irony

當然了 誰會放過

of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.

輪到媒體大亨梅鐸新聞集團旗下的公司被駭

being a victim of hacking for a change.

這個天大的諷刺呢

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Sometimes you turn on the news

有時你打開新聞

and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?"

你會問“還有沒被駭的嗎？”

Sony Playstation Network -- done,

索尼PS的網路- 被駭

the government of Turkey -- tick,

土耳其政府網站 - 被駭

Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze,

英國重犯罪局 - 輕而易舉

the CIA -- falling off a log.

中央情報局 - 輕而易舉

In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry

事實上一個在資訊安全業界的朋友

told me the other day

幾天前告訴我說

that there are two types of companies in the world:

這世上只有兩種公司

those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't.

已被駭和還沒被駭

I mean three companies

連三家提供美國中情局

providing cybersecurity services to the FBI

網路安全服務的公司

have been hacked.

都全部被駭過了

Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?

那還有什麽是無可侵犯的？

Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous --

總之，這個叫匿名者的組織

and they would say this themselves --

他們自己說

they are providing a service

他們是幫大家驗證

by demonstrating how useless companies are

這些保護資料的公司

at protecting our data.

是多麽的沒用

But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous --

但這組織背後有更嚴肅的一面

they are ideologically driven.

他們是有意識形態的

They claim that they are battling

他們說他們是在對抗

a dastardly conspiracy.

欺善怕惡的陰謀

They say that governments are trying

他們說各國政府

to take over the Internet and control it,

要試著取下網際網路的控制權

and that they, Anonymous,

而他們，匿名者

are the authentic voice of resistance --

是與其對抗的正宗力量

be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships,

無論是中東的獨裁政權

against global media corporations,

或是對抗媒體巨人

or against intelligence agencies,

或是對抗情報組織

or whoever it is.

等等之類的

And their politics are not entirely unattractive.

他們的政治理論倒也不乏吸引力

Okay, they're a little inchoate.

好吧 他們是有一些不成熟

There's a strong whiff

感覺起來像有些

of half-baked anarchism about them.

類似無政府主義的味道在裏面

But one thing is true:

但是有件事是確定的

we are at the beginning

我們正站在

of a mighty struggle

爭奪網際網路控制權的

for control of the Internet.

巨大戰爭的起點

The Web links everything,

網路連接一切

and very soon

並且速度很快

it will mediate most human activity.

網路將會居間斡旋人類大部分的活動

Because the Internet has fashioned

因爲網路給一存在已久的兩難困境

a new and complicated environment

帶來更新更複雜的背景條件

for an old-age dilemma

這個進退兩難的困境就是

that pits the demands of security

我們對安全的需求

with the desire for freedom.

和同時對自由的渴望

Now this is a very complicated struggle.

現在這變成了一個很複雜的抗爭

And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me,

很不幸地像你我這樣的凡人

we probably can't understand it very well.

我們大概很難去了解

Nonetheless,

然而

in an unexpected attack of hubris

在幾年前

a couple of years ago,

一陣自傲的驅使下

I decided I would try and do that.

我決定要來試著了解這個問題

And I sort of get it.

我後來大概也懂了

These were the various things that I was looking at

在試著了解這個問題的過程

as I was trying to understand it.

我研究的是這些事

But in order to try and explain the whole thing,

但是爲了將整個問題全盤解釋

I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it,

我將會需要再多18分鐘

so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion,

所以今天你只好相信我在這裡所講的

and let me assure you that all of these issues

我可以跟你保證 所有提到的問題

are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet

都和網路犯罪和網路安全

one way or the other,

有相當的關係

but in a configuration

其範圍之大

that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty

連史蒂芬霍金教授

trying to get his head around.

都恐怕有困難來全盤了解

So there you are.

那麽我們就開始吧

And as you see, in the middle,

在這張圖的中間

there is our old friend, the hacker.

這是我們的老朋友，駭客

The hacker is absolutely central

在網路上的很多問題 舉凡

to many of the political, social

政治社會經濟議題

and economic issues affecting the Net.

駭客都是問題的中心

And so I thought to myself,

所以我就想

"Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to."

那麽這些就是我想跟他們談談的人

And what do you know,

大家都知道

nobody else does talk to the hackers.

沒有其他的人跟駭客交談

They're completely anonymous, as it were.

他們完全是無名的 跟過去一樣

So despite the fact

所以 雖然

that we are beginning to pour billions,

我們開始將十億

hundreds of billions of dollars,

幾千億美元的金額

into cybersecurity --

投入到網路安全上

for the most extraordinary technical solutions --

使用最先進的科技

no one wants to talk

但是仍然沒有人

to these guys, the hackers,

想跟這些始作俑者

who are doing everything.

跟這些駭客談一談

Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions,

我們寧願將大筆大筆的錢

which cost a huge amount of money.

花在眩目的科技上

And so nothing is going into the hackers.

也不花半毛錢在駭客身上

Well, I say nothing,

嗯 雖然我說沒半毛錢

but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit

事實上倒還是有一個很小的研究機構

in Turin, Italy

在意大利的杜林

called the Hackers Profiling Project.

叫做駭客檔案計劃

And they are doing some fantastic research

他們在做一些很棒的研究

into the characteristics,

在研究駭客的特性

into the abilities

能力

and the socialization of hackers.

和社會性

But because they're a U.N. operation,

或許因爲他們是聯合國的機構

maybe that's why governments and corporations

所以政府和企業

are not that interested in them.

對他們都不感興趣

Because it's a U.N. operation,

也正因爲他們是聯合國的機構

of course, it lacks funding.

也就理所當然地欠缺經費

But I think they're doing very important work.

但是我覺得他們的研究是很重要的

Because where we have a surplus of technology

因爲在網路安全的領域裏我們在科技的發展上

in the cybersecurity industry,

有著很多的領先

we have a definite lack of --

那麽我們一定 -

call me old-fashioned --

你可以說我是老古板 -

human intelligence.

在人類智慧的發展上尚有不足

Now, so far I've mentioned

到此我已經提到了

the hackers Anonymous

匿名者

who are a politically motivated hacking group.

這個有政治訴求的駭客團體

Of course, the criminal justice system

當然犯罪司法系統

treats them as common old garden criminals.

把他們當一般的犯人來看

But interestingly,

有趣的是

Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information

匿名者並沒有利用他們駭來的資訊

for financial gain.

在商業上牟利

But what about the real cybercriminals?

那麽真正的網路犯罪也是這樣嗎？

Well real organized crime on the Internet

真正的有組織的網路犯罪

goes back about 10 years

起源于10年前

when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers

由一群烏克蘭的駭客

developed a website,

設計了一個網站

which led to the industrialization

而繼而導致了網路犯罪的

of cybercrime.

普遍化

Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet.

歡迎來到現已被遺忘的CarderPlanet（卡友星球）

This is how they were advertising themselves

這是十年前在網路上

a decade ago on the Net.

他們為自己打廣告的方式

Now CarderPlanet was very interesting.

卡友星球在當時很有趣

Cybercriminals would go there

網路罪犯會去那個網站

to buy and sell stolen credit card details,

買賣偷來的信用卡資料

to exchange information

還有在那裏交換

about new malware that was out there.

有關malware（惡意程式）的資訊

And remember, this is a time

我們要記得

when we're seeing for the first time

這是我們第一次看到

so-called off-the-shelf malware.

所謂現成的惡意程式

This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff,

這是馬上可以使用的現成產品

which you can deploy

即使你不是厲害的駭客

even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.

你也可以輕易使用這些程式

And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket

所以卡友星球變成了

for cybercriminals.

網路罪犯的超級市場

And its creators

而網站的設計者

were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial,

是一群很聰明的創業家

because they were faced

因爲他們面對的是

with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals.

網路犯罪的一個巨大的挑戰

And that challenge is:

這個挑戰就是

How do you do business,

你如何在網路上做生意

how do you trust

你如何能信賴客戶

somebody on the Web who you want to do business with

當你知道你的客戶

when you know that they're a criminal?

全部都是罪犯？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's axiomatic that they're dodgy,

欺騙對他們來説是正常的

and they're going to want to try and rip you off.

他們會想盡辦法來把你騙得精光

So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known,

所以卡友星球的核心成員

came up with this brilliant idea

想出了這麽一個天才的主意

called the escrow system.

叫做抵押系統

They appointed an officer

他們指定一個中介管理者

who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser.

來協調買方和賣方

The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details;

譬如說賣方有一筆偷來的信用卡的資料

the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them.

而買方想來買

The purchaser would send the administrative officer

買方會先用電子錢包

some dollars digitally,

送一些美元給這個中介管理者

and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details.

賣方也將信用卡資料賣給這個管理者

And the officer would then verify

中介管理者則去確認

if the stolen credit card worked.

信用卡資料是不是真的有效

And if they did,

如果是真的

he then passed on the money to the vendor

他就把錢送給賣方

and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser.

並把信用卡資料轉送給買方

And it was this

就這樣

which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web.

徹底地給網路犯罪帶來全面的革新

And after that, it just went wild.

在這以後更是一發不可收拾

We had a champagne decade

對卡友星球的成員來説

for people who we know as Carders.

接下來的十年是天天開香檳

Now I spoke to one of these Carders

現在是我跟一個卡友星球的成員談話

who we'll call RedBrigade --

我們叫他RedBrigade（紅兵團）

although that wasn't even his proper nickname --

這並不是他真正的綽號

but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was.

但是我答應為他保密

And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004

他跟我解釋了在2003和2004年之間

he would go on sprees in New York,

他如何在紐約狂歡

taking out $10,000 from an ATM here,

從這個提款機提一萬美元

$30,000 from an ATM there,

再到下個提款機提三萬美元

using cloned credit cards.

靠的只是一張僞造的信用卡

He was making, on average a week,

他每個禮拜平均

$150,000 --

賺15萬美元

tax free of course.

當然還不用繳稅

And he said

他還說有一次

that he had so much money

實在是有太多錢

stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point

堆在他在上東區的公寓裏

that he just didn't know what to do with it

他實在不知道該怎麽辦

and actually fell into a depression.

還因此引發了他的憂鬱症

But that's a slightly different story,

這算是題外話

which I won't go into now.

我就不詳談這一部分了

Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade

有趣的是

is that he wasn't an advanced hacker.

紅兵團並不是高階的駭客

He sort of understood the technology,

技術方面他大概了解

and he realized that security was very important

他也知道如果想成爲卡友星球的一分子

if you were going to be a Carder,

網路安全的技術是很重要的

but he didn't spend his days and nights

但他並沒有日日夜夜

bent over a computer, eating pizza,

坐在電腦前

drinking coke and that sort of thing.

吃比薩喝可樂和掛網

He was out there on the town

他倒是常跑趴

having a fab time enjoying the high life.

找樂子享受人生

And this is because

這是因爲

hackers are only one element

駭客只是整個網路犯罪

in a cybercriminal enterprise.

裏面的一環罷了

And often they're the most vulnerable element of all.

而且通常他們是最脆弱的一環

And I want to explain this to you

我想藉由介紹以下六個人

by introducing you to six characters

來跟大家説明這點

who I met

這六個人

while I was doing this research.

是我在做這研究時所認識的

Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT --

Dimitry Golubov 又叫SCRIPT

born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982.

1982年在烏克蘭的奧蒂塞出生

Now he developed his social and moral compass

在1990年代他在這黑海港都的生活

on the Black Sea port during the 1990s.

養成了他人生的社會和道德觀

This was a sink-or-swim environment

那是一個人吃人狗咬狗的社會

where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities

參與犯罪和貪腐活動

was entirely necessary

是完全必要的

if you wanted to survive.

那是你生存的必要條件

As an accomplished computer user,

作爲一個嫺熟的電腦使用者

what Dimitry did

Dimitry做的

was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown

不過是將他家鄉黑道資本主義的那一套

onto the Worldwide Web.

搬到網路上

And he did a great job in it.

他還做得很成功

You have to understand though

我們必須了解一件事

that from his ninth birthday,

從他九歲生日起

the only environment he knew

他唯一認識的環境

was gangsterism.

就是黑道社會

He knew no other way of making a living

他並不知道其他維生

and making money.

或賺錢的方法

Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam,

接下來是Renukanth Subramaniam

aka JiLsi --

又叫JiLsi

founder of DarkMarket,

DarkMarket（黑暗市場）的創始人

born in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

在斯里蘭卡的科倫坡出生

As an eight year-old,

在他八歲的時候

he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital

他和他的爸媽逃離了斯里蘭卡的首都

because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city,

因爲斯里蘭卡的黑幫在首都肆虐

looking for Tamils like Renu to murder.

他們在追殺長得像塔米爾人的Renu

At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military,

11歲的時候，他被斯里蘭卡軍方偵訊

accused of being a terrorist,

被控為恐怖分子

and his parents sent him on his own to Britain

他的父母把他一個人送到英國

as a refugee seeking political asylum.

尋求政治庇護

At 13,

13歲的時候

with only little English and being bullied at school,

他只會說一點英語 在學校又被欺負

he escaped into a world of computers

他躲入了電腦的世界

where he showed great technical ability,

在那兒他展露了他的技巧和能力

but he was soon being seduced

但很快地他被網路上

by people on the Internet.

其他人所誘拐

He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud,

他因貸款和信用詐欺被判刑

and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London

他要在倫敦的Wormwood Scrubs監獄

in 2012.

待到2012年

Matrix001,

Matrix001

who was an administrator at DarkMarket.

以前是黑暗市場的管理員

Born in Southern Germany

生於德國南部

to a stable and well-respected middle class family,

一個備受尊敬的中產階級家庭

his obsession with gaming as a teenager

在青少年時期沉迷于缐上游戯

led him to hacking.

後來導致他開始當駭客

And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world

很快地他就控制了世界上很多大型的伺服器

where he stored his games

這些他破解或駭來的伺服器

that he had cracked and pirated.

被他用來儲存他的遊戲軟體

His slide into criminality

他是慢慢地

was incremental.

一步一步地踏入犯罪

And when he finally woke up to his situation

最後當他覺醒

and understood the implications,

明白了他的處境和可能的下場

he was already in too deep.

他已經陷入太深

Max Vision, aka ICEMAN --

Max Vision 又叫 ICEMAN

mastermind of CardersMarket.

是卡友市場的靈魂人物

Born in Meridian, Idaho.

在美國愛達荷州的Meridian出生

Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers

Max Vision是最佳的滲透測試者之一

working out of Santa Clara, California

他1990年代末期在加州的聖塔巴巴拉

in the late 90s for private companies

替私人公司工作

and voluntarily for the FBI.

也志願幫FBI（聯邦調查局）工作

Now in the late 1990s,

在1990年代末期

he discovered a vulnerability

他發現了所有美國政府

on all U.S. government networks,

網路安全上的一個漏洞

and he went in and patched it up --

他把這個漏洞補了起來

because this included nuclear research facilities --

因爲這也牽連到核能研究單位

sparing the American government

這替美國政府

a huge security embarrassment.

避免了一次難堪的局面

But also, because he was an inveterate hacker,

但也因爲他的駭客習性根深蒂固

he left a tiny digital wormhole

他給補丁留下了一道

through which he alone could crawl.

只有自己才能進入的後門

But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator,

這最後被眼尖的調查員發現了

and he was convicted.

他也被判刑

At his open prison,

在他的開放監禁期間

he came under the influence of financial fraudsters,

他認識了其他財務詐欺犯

and those financial fraudsters

這些人說服了他

persuaded him to work for them

要他在服刑期滿後

on his release.

為他們工作

And this man with a planetary-sized brain

結果這個十分聰明的人

is now serving a 13-year sentence

又被判了13年

in California.

現在在加州服刑

Adewale Taiwo, aka FreddyBB --

Adewale Taiwo 又叫 FeddyBB

master bank account cracker

銀行賬戶破解專家

from Abuja in Nigeria.

住在奈及利亞的阿佈賈

He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup,

他成立了這個名字平凡無奇的新聞組

[email protected]

[email protected]

before arriving in Britain

在他來到英國之前

in 2005

在2005年

to take a Masters in chemical engineering

他當時要來曼徹斯特大學

at Manchester University.

研讀化學工程的碩士課程

He impressed in the private sector,

他給私人企業留下了深刻的印象

developing chemical applications for the oil industry

藉著他一面為石油業寫程式

while simultaneously running

一面私底下進行全球規模

a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions

價值數百萬的銀行和信用卡詐欺活動

until his arrest in 2008.

一直到2008年被捕

And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan,

最後還有一個，Cagatay Evyapan

aka Cha0 --

又叫 Cha0

one of the most remarkable hackers ever,

是有史以來最傑出的駭客之一

from Ankara in Turkey.

他是土耳其安卡拉人

He combined the tremendous skills of a geek

他將高超的電腦技術

with the suave social engineering skills

和職業罪犯成熟的社交技巧

of the master criminal.

結合在一起

One of the smartest people I've ever met.

他是我見過最聰明的人之一

He also had the most effective

他同時也擁有

virtual private network security arrangement

在全球的網路犯罪中

the police have ever encountered

警察從未見過

amongst global cybercriminals.

最有效率的私人虛擬網路

Now the important thing

現在重要的是

about all of these people

這些駭客

is they share certain characteristics

雖然來自不同國家不同背景

despite the fact that they come from very different environments.

他們卻有一些共同性

They are all people who learned their hacking skills

他們都是在十幾歲的時候

in their early to mid-teens.

學會了駭客的技巧

They are all people

他們也都

who demonstrate advanced ability

在數理科上

in maths and the sciences.

顯示了超人一等的能力

Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills,

我們要知道，在他們發展駭客的技巧時

their moral compass had not yet developed.

他們的道德感尚未健全

And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0,

除了SCRIPT和Cha0以外

they did not demonstrate

以上大部分的人無法顯示有

any real social skills in the outside world --

任何在真實世界的社會技巧

only on the Web.

他們的只活在網路上

And the other thing is

另外還有一件事值得一談

the high incidence of hackers like these

有很高的比例顯示

who have characteristics which are consistent

這樣的駭客表現了

with Asperger's syndrome.

亞斯伯格症候群的症狀

Now I discussed this

我曾就此一問題

with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen

請教過 Simon Baron-Cohen 教授

who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge.

他是劍橋大學心理發展學的教授

And he has done path-breaking work on autism

他在研究自閉症上有突破性的發展

and confirmed, also for the authorities here,

Cohen 教授向官方證實了

that Gary McKinnon --

Gary McKinnon

who is wanted by the United States

他因爲駭入美國國防部的電腦

for hacking into the Pentagon --

而遭到美國通緝

suffers from Asperger's

他也患有亞斯伯格症候群

and a secondary condition

還有第二級的

of depression.

憂鬱症

And Baron-Cohen explained

根據Baron教授的解釋

that certain disabilities

有一些人格缺陷

can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world

表現在電腦網路和駭客的世界裏

as tremendous skills,

就變成驚人的特殊技巧

and that we should not be throwing in jail

所以我們不應該

people who have such disabilities and skills

將這些人格缺陷和特殊技巧丟入監獄裏

because they have lost their way socially

因爲他們只是在社會上一時迷失

or been duped.

或是被欺騙利用

Now I think we're missing a trick here,

我想我們忽略了一個重點

because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail.

因爲我認爲Max Vision這些人不應該被關

And let me be blunt about this.

讓我開門見山地說

In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries

在中國、俄國和許多國家

that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities,

他們都在發展網路攻擊的能力

this is exactly what they are doing.

他們正在做的是

They are recruiting hackers

他們在招募駭客

both before and after they become involved

不管在駭客從事犯罪

in criminal and industrial espionage activities --

或是工業間諜的之前或之後

are mobilizing them

他們在用政府的名義

on behalf of the state.

在動員他們

We need to engage

我們必須全力投入

and find ways of offering guidance

並找出方法

to these young people,

來引導這些年輕人

because they are a remarkable breed.

因爲他們是難得的英才

And if we rely, as we do at the moment,

如果我們還像現在一樣

solely on the criminal justice system

只是靠司法犯罪系統

and the threat of punitive sentences,

和形責罪罰等的威嚇

we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.

我們最終將培養出我們無法馴服的怪獸

Thank you very much for listening.

謝謝你們的聆聽

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading

Chris Anderson ：所以你值得傳播的主意

is hire hackers.

是去雇用駭客

How would someone get over that kind of fear

但是我們該如何消除心中的疑慮恐懼

that the hacker they hire

去相信所僱用的駭客

might preserve that little teensy wormhole?

不會駭到我們自己的系統呢？

MG: I think to an extent,

MG：我想 某種程度上

you have to understand

你必須了解

that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that.

一旦變成了駭客 他們就會一直駭下去

They're just relentless and obsessive

他們對當駭客這件事

about what they do.

是充滿執著又不會放棄的

But all of the people who I've spoken to

但所有跟我談過

who have fallen foul of the law,

觸犯法律的人

they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance

他們都說 “請再給我們一次機會

to work in the legitimate industry.

讓我們能再合法地工作

We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing.

我們以前不知道我們在做什麽 或是如何合法地工作

We want to work with you."

我們想跟你工作"

Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.

Chris Anderson ：好吧 這麽說也是有道理 謝謝你 米夏

(Applause)

（掌聲）