Misha Glenny: Hire the hackers!

111,884 views ใƒป 2011-09-13

TED


ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืžืชืจื’ื: Dr. Eitan Eliram ืžื‘ืงืจ: Shahar Kaiser
00:15
Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do,
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ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ, ื–ื” ื“ื‘ืจ ืžืื•ื“ ืœื ืžืงื•ื‘ืœ ื‘ื›ื ืกื™ TED
00:18
but let's kick off the afternoon
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ืืš ื”ื‘ื” ื ืฉื™ืง ืืช ืื—ืจ ื”ืฆื”ืจื™ื
00:21
with a message
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ืขื ื”ื•ื“ืขื”
00:23
from a mystery sponsor.
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ืžื ื•ืชืŸ ื—ืกื•ืช ืžืกืชื•ืจื™.
00:26
Anonymous: Dear Fox News,
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ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก: ืžืขืจื›ืช ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช ืคื•ืงืก ื™ืงืจื”,
00:28
it has come to our unfortunate attention
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ื”ื•ื‘ื, ื‘ื‘ื™ืฉ ืžื–ืœ, ืœื™ื“ื™ืขืชื™ื ื•
00:31
that both the name and nature of Anonymous
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ืฉืฉืžื” ื•ื’ื ื˜ื‘ืขื” ืฉืœ ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก
00:33
has been ravaged.
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ื”ื•ืฉื—ืชื•.
00:35
We are everyone. We are no one.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ื›ื•ืœื. ืื ื—ื ื• ืืฃ ืื—ื“.
00:38
We are anonymous. We are legion.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื™ื. ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื™ื’ื™ื•ืŸ.
00:41
We do not forgive. We do not forget.
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ืื™ื ื ื• ืกื•ืœื—ื™ื. ืื™ื ื ื• ืฉื•ื›ื—ื™ื.
00:44
We are but the base of chaos.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ื‘ืกื™ืกื• ืฉืœ ื”ื›ืื•ืก.
00:49
Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen --
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ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก, ื’ื‘ื™ืจื•ืชื™ ื•ืจื‘ื•ืชื™
00:52
a sophisticated group
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ืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ืžืชื•ื—ื›ืžืช
00:54
of politically motivated hackers
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ืฉืœ ื”ืืงืจื™ื ืžื•ื ืขื™ื ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ืช
00:56
who have emerged in 2011.
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ืฉื™ืฆืื” ืœืื•ืจ ื‘-2011
00:59
And they're pretty scary.
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ื•ื”ื ื“ื™ ืžืคื—ื™ื“ื™ื.
01:01
You never know when they're going to attack next,
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ืœืขื•ืœื ืื™ื ืš ื™ื•ื“ืข ืžืชื™ ื”ื ื™ืชืงืคื• ืฉื•ื‘,
01:04
who or what the consequences will be.
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ืžื™ ืื• ืžื” ื™ื”ื™ื• ื”ืชื•ืฆืื•ืช.
01:07
But interestingly,
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ืืš ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžืขื ื™ืŸ,
01:09
they have a sense of humor.
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ื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ื—ื•ืฉ ื”ื•ืžื•ืจ.
01:12
These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account
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ื”ื—ื‘ืจ'ื” ื”ืืœื” ืคืจืฆื• ืœืชื•ืš ื—ืฉื‘ื•ืŸ ื”ื˜ื•ื•ื™ื˜ืจ ืฉืœ ืžืขืจื›ืช ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช ืคื•ืงืก
01:16
to announce President Obama's assassination.
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ื•ื”ื•ื“ื™ืขื• ืขืœ ื”ืชื ืงืฉื•ืช ื‘ื—ื™ื™ ื”ื ืฉื™ื ืื•ื‘ืืžื”.
01:20
Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื“ืžื™ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ืคืื ื™ืงื” ืฉื”ืชืจื—ืฉื”
01:23
in the newsroom at Fox.
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ื‘ื—ื“ืจ ื”ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช ืฉืœ ืคื•ืงืก.
01:25
"What do we do now?
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"ืžื” ื ืขืฉื” ืขื›ืฉื™ื•?
01:27
Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?"
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ื ืฉื™ื ืกืจื˜-ื‘ื“ ืฉื—ื•ืจ ืื• ืฉื ืคืชื— ื‘ืงื‘ื•ืง ืฉืžืคื ื™ื”?"
01:30
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
01:32
And of course, who could escape the irony
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ื•ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ, ืžื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ืžืœื˜ ืžื”ืื™ืจื•ื ื™ื”
01:36
of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.
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ืฉื—ื‘ืจื” ืžืชืื’ื™ื“ ื”ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช ืฉืœ ืจื•ืคืจื˜ ืžืจื“ื•ืง.
01:39
being a victim of hacking for a change.
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ื”ื•ืคื›ืช ืœืฉื ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ืœืงืจื‘ืŸ ืคืจื™ืฆื” ื‘ืขืฆืžื”.
01:42
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
01:44
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)
01:48
Sometimes you turn on the news
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ืœืคืขืžื™ื ืืชื” ืคื•ืชื— ืืช ื”ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช
01:51
and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?"
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ื•ืืชื” ืื•ืžืจ :"ื ืฉืืจ ืขื•ื“ ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืœืคืจื•ืฅ ืืœื™ื•?"
01:53
Sony Playstation Network -- done,
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ื”ืจืฉืช ืฉืœ ืกื•ื ื™ ืคืœื™ื™ืกื˜ื™ืฉืŸ- ื‘ื•ืฆืข
01:56
the government of Turkey -- tick,
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ืžืžืฉืœืช ืชื•ืจื›ื™ื”- ืชื•ืงืชืง
01:58
Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze,
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ืกื•ื›ื ื•ืช ื”ืคืฉืข ื”ืžืื•ืจื’ืŸ ืฉืœ ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”- ืฉื•ื ื‘ืขื™ื”,
02:01
the CIA -- falling off a log.
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ื”ืกื™.ืื™.ืื™- ืขืฃ ืžื”ื™ื•ืžืŸ.
02:03
In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry
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ืœืžืขืฉื”, ื—ื‘ืจ ืฉืœื™ ืžืชืขืฉื™ื™ืช ื”ืื‘ื˜ื—ื”
02:05
told me the other day
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ืืžืจ ืœื™ ื™ื•ื ืื—ื“
02:07
that there are two types of companies in the world:
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ืฉื™ืฉื ืŸ ืฉืชื™ ืกื•ื’ื™ ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื‘ืขื•ืœื:
02:10
those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't.
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ืืœื• ืฉื™ื•ื“ืขื•ืช ืฉื ืคืจืฆื• ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืืงืจื™ื ื•ืืœื• ืฉืœื ื™ื•ื“ืขื•ืช
02:13
I mean three companies
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ืื ื™ ืžืชื›ื•ื•ืŸ, ืฉืœื•ืฉ ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช
02:16
providing cybersecurity services to the FBI
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ืฉืžืกืคืงื•ืช ืฉืจื•ืชื™ ืื‘ื˜ื—ืช ืžื™ื“ืข ืœืืฃ.ื‘ื™.ืื™
02:20
have been hacked.
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ื ืคืจืฆื• ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืืงืจื™ื.
02:22
Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?
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ืื™ืŸ ืฉื•ื ื“ื‘ืจ ืžืงื•ื“ืฉ ื™ื•ืชืจ, ืœืžืขืŸ ื”ืฉื?
02:25
Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous --
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ืžื›ืœ ืžืงื•ื, ื”ืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ื”ืžืกืชื•ืจื™ืช, ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก --
02:27
and they would say this themselves --
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ื•ื”ื ื™ืืžืจื• ื–ืืช ืขืœ ืขืฆืžื --
02:29
they are providing a service
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ืžืกืคืงื™ื ืฉื™ืจื•ืช
02:31
by demonstrating how useless companies are
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ื‘ื”ื“ื’ื™ืžื ืขื“ ื›ืžื” ื—ืกืจื•ืช ืื•ื ื™ื ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช
02:35
at protecting our data.
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ื‘ื”ื’ื ื” ืขืœ ื”ืžื™ื“ืข ืฉืœื ื•.
02:38
But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous --
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ืื‘ืœ ื™ืฉื ื• ื’ื ืขื•ื“ ื”ื™ื‘ื˜ ืจืฆื™ื ื™ ืžืื•ื“ ืฉืœ ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก
02:41
they are ideologically driven.
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ื”ื ืžื•ื ืขื™ื ืื™ื“ืื•ืœื•ื’ื™ืช
02:44
They claim that they are battling
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ื”ื ื˜ื•ืขื ื™ื ืฉื”ื ื ืœื—ืžื™ื
02:46
a dastardly conspiracy.
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ื‘ืงื•ื ืกืคื™ืจืฆื™ื” ืฉืคืœื”.
02:49
They say that governments are trying
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ื”ื ืื•ืžืจื™ื ืฉืžืžืฉืœื•ืช ืžื ืกื•ืช
02:51
to take over the Internet and control it,
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ืœื›ื‘ื•ืฉ ืืช ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜ ื•ืœืฉืœื•ื˜ ื‘ื•
02:54
and that they, Anonymous,
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ื•ืฉื”ื, ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก
02:56
are the authentic voice of resistance --
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ื”ื™ื ื ื”ืงื•ืœ ื”ืื•ืชื ื˜ื™ ืฉืœ ื”ื”ืชื ื’ื“ื•ืช
02:59
be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships,
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ื™ื”ื ื–ื” ื ื’ื“ ื“ื™ืงื˜ื˜ื•ืจื•ืช ืžื–ืจื— ืชื™ื›ื•ื ื™ื•ืช
03:01
against global media corporations,
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ื›ื ื’ื“ ืชืื’ื™ื“ื™ ืžื“ื™ื” ื’ืœื•ื‘ืœื™ื™ื
03:04
or against intelligence agencies,
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ืื• ื›ื ื’ื“ ืกื•ื›ื ื•ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื™ื•ืŸ
03:06
or whoever it is.
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ืื• ืžื™ ืฉื–ื” ืœื ื™ื”ื™ื”.
03:08
And their politics are not entirely unattractive.
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ื•ื”ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ืงื” ืฉืœื”ื ืื™ื ื ื” ื‘ื”ื›ืจื— ื‘ืœืชื™ ืžื•ืฉื›ืช.
03:12
Okay, they're a little inchoate.
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ืื•ืงื™ื™, ื”ื ืงืฆืช ื’ื•ืœืžื ื™ื™ื
03:15
There's a strong whiff
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ื™ืฉ ืจื™ื— ื—ืจื™ืฃ
03:17
of half-baked anarchism about them.
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ืฉืœ ืื ืืจื›ื™ื–ื ื—ืฆื™-ืืคื•ื™, ืื•ื“ื•ืชื.
03:20
But one thing is true:
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ืื‘ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ืื—ื“ ืืžื™ืชื™:
03:22
we are at the beginning
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ืื ื• ืจืง ื‘ืชื—ื™ืœืชื•
03:24
of a mighty struggle
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ืฉืœ ืžืื‘ืง ืื™ื•ื
03:26
for control of the Internet.
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ืœืฉืœื™ื˜ื” ื‘ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜.
03:29
The Web links everything,
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ื”ืจืฉืช ืžื—ื‘ืจืช ื”ื›ืœ
03:31
and very soon
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ื•ื‘ืงืจื•ื‘ ืžืื•ื“
03:33
it will mediate most human activity.
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ื”ื™ื ืชืชื•ื•ืš ืืช ืจื•ื‘ ื”ืคืขื™ืœื•ืช ื”ืื ื•ืฉื™ืช.
03:35
Because the Internet has fashioned
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜ ืขื™ืฆื‘
03:37
a new and complicated environment
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ืกื‘ื™ื‘ื” ื—ื“ืฉื” ื•ืžื•ืจื›ื‘ืช
03:39
for an old-age dilemma
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ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื“ื™ืœืžื” ืจื‘ืช ืฉื ื™ื
03:42
that pits the demands of security
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ืฉื’ื•ืจืžืช ืœื”ืชื ื’ืฉื•ืช ื‘ื™ืŸ ื“ืจื™ืฉื•ืช ื”ืื‘ื˜ื—ื”
03:45
with the desire for freedom.
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ืœื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืชืฉื•ืงื” ืœื—ืจื•ืช.
03:48
Now this is a very complicated struggle.
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื–ื”ื• ืžืื‘ืง ืžืกื•ื‘ืš ืžืื•ื“
03:52
And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me,
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ื•ืœืจื•ืข ื”ืžื–ืœ, ืœื‘ื ื™ ืชืžื•ืชื” ื›ืžื•ื›ื ื•ื›ืžื•ื ื™,
03:55
we probably can't understand it very well.
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ืจื•ื‘ ื”ืกื™ื›ื•ื™ื™ื ืฉืœื ื ื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ื–ืืช ื”ื™ื˜ื‘.
03:58
Nonetheless,
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ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช,
04:00
in an unexpected attack of hubris
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ื‘ืžื”ืœืš ื”ืชืงืคื” ื‘ืœืชื™ ืฆืคื•ื™ื” ืฉืœ ื”ื™ื‘ืจื™ืก
04:02
a couple of years ago,
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ืœืคื ื™ ืžืกืคืจ ืฉื ื™ื,
04:04
I decided I would try and do that.
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ื”ื—ืœื˜ืชื™ ืฉืื ืกื” ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื–ืืช.
04:07
And I sort of get it.
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ื•ืื ื™ ื›ืื™ืœื• ืžื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื–ื”.
04:11
These were the various things that I was looking at
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ืืœื• ื”ื™ื• ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืฉื•ื ื™ื ืฉื”ืชื‘ื•ื ื ืชื™ ืขืœื™ื”ื
04:13
as I was trying to understand it.
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ื‘ืžื”ืœืš ื ืกื™ื•ื ื™ ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ื–ืืช.
04:15
But in order to try and explain the whole thing,
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ืืš ื‘ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ืœื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื›ืœ ื”ืžื›ืœื•ืœ
04:18
I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it,
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ืืฆื˜ืจืš ืขื•ื“ 18 ื“ืงื•ืช ื‘ืงื™ืจื•ื‘ ื›ื“ื™ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื–ืืช,
04:21
so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion,
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ืื– ืืชื ืชืฆื˜ืจื›ื• ืœืกืžื•ืš ืขืœื™ ื‘ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ื”ื–ื”
04:26
and let me assure you that all of these issues
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžื‘ื˜ื™ื—ื›ื ืฉื›ืœ ื”ื ื•ืฉืื™ื ื”ืœืœื•
04:28
are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet
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ืžืขื•ืจื‘ื™ื ื‘ืื‘ื˜ื—ืช ืžื™ื“ืข ื•ื‘ืฉืœื™ื˜ื” ืขืœ ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜
04:31
one way or the other,
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ื‘ื“ืจืš ื›ื–ื• ืื• ืื—ืจืช,
04:33
but in a configuration
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ืืš ื‘ืงื•ื ืคื™ื’ื•ืจืฆื™ื”
04:35
that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty
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ืฉืืคื™ืœื• ืกื˜ื™ื‘ืŸ ื”ื•ืงื™ื ื’ ื”ื™ื” ืžืชืงืฉื” ืงืจื•ื‘ ืœื•ื•ื“ืื™
04:38
trying to get his head around.
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ื‘ื ืกื™ื•ื ื• ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ.
04:41
So there you are.
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ืื– ื›ื›ื”:
04:43
And as you see, in the middle,
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ื•ืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื, ื‘ืžืจื›ื–,
04:45
there is our old friend, the hacker.
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ื™ืฉ ืืช ืžื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ื•, ื”ื”ืืงืจ.
04:47
The hacker is absolutely central
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ื”ื”ืืงืจ ื”ื•ื ื‘ื•ื•ื“ืื•ืช, ืžืจื›ื–ื™
04:50
to many of the political, social
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ืœืžืจื‘ื™ืช ื”ื ื•ืฉืื™ื ื”ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ื™ื, ื”ืกื•ืฆื™ืืœื™ื™ื
04:52
and economic issues affecting the Net.
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ื•ื”ื›ืœื›ืœื™ื™ื ื”ืžืฉืคื™ืขื™ื ืขืœ ื”ืจืฉืช.
04:55
And so I thought to myself,
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ืื– ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™,
04:58
"Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to."
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"ื˜ื•ื‘, ืืœื” ื”ื—ื‘ืจ'ื” ืฉืื™ืชื ืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื“ื‘ืจ"
05:01
And what do you know,
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ื•ืžื” ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื,
05:04
nobody else does talk to the hackers.
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ืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืื—ืจ ืœื ืžื“ื‘ืจ ืขื ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื.
05:06
They're completely anonymous, as it were.
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ื”ื ืœื’ืžืจื™ ืื ื•ื ื•ืžื™ื™ื, ื›ืžื• ืฉื–ื” ื”ื™ื”.
05:09
So despite the fact
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ืื–, ืœืžืจื•ืช ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื”
05:11
that we are beginning to pour billions,
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ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžืชื—ื™ืœื™ื ืœืฉืคื•ืš ืžืœื™ืืจื“ื™ื,
05:14
hundreds of billions of dollars,
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ืžืื•ืช ืžื™ืœืืจื“ื™ ื“ื•ืœืจ,
05:16
into cybersecurity --
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ืœืชื•ืš ืชื—ื•ื ืื‘ื˜ื—ืช ื”ืžื™ื“ืข
05:19
for the most extraordinary technical solutions --
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ืœื˜ื•ื‘ืช ื”ืคืชืจื•ื ื•ืช ื”ื˜ื›ื ื™ื™ื ื™ื•ืฆืื™ ื”ื“ื•ืคืŸ,
05:23
no one wants to talk
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ืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืœื ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื“ื‘ืจ
05:25
to these guys, the hackers,
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ืขื ื”ื—ื‘ืจ'ื” ื”ืืœื”, ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื,
05:27
who are doing everything.
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ืฉืขื•ืฉื™ื ื”ื›ืœ.
05:30
Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions,
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ื‘ืžืงื•ื ื–ื”, ืื ื• ืžืขื“ื™ืคื™ื ืืช ืื•ืชื ืคืชืจื•ื ื•ืช ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื™ื, ืžืกื ื•ื•ืจื™ื ื‘ืืžืช
05:35
which cost a huge amount of money.
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ืฉืขื•ืœื™ื ืกื›ื•ืžื™ ืขืชืง
05:38
And so nothing is going into the hackers.
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ื•ืฉื•ื ื“ื‘ืจ ืžื–ื” ืœื ืžื’ื™ืข ืืœ ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื
05:41
Well, I say nothing,
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ื˜ื•ื‘, ืื ื™ ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื•ื ื“ื‘ืจ,
05:43
but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit
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ืื‘ืœ ืœืžืขืฉื” ื™ืฉื ื” ื™ื—ื™ื“ืช ืžื—ืงืจ ืคื™ืฆืคื•ื ืช ืงื˜ื ื”
05:47
in Turin, Italy
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ื‘ื˜ื•ืจื™ื ื•, ืื™ื˜ืœื™ื”
05:49
called the Hackers Profiling Project.
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ืฉื ืงืจืืช : ืคืจื•ื™ืงื˜ ื‘ื ื™ื™ืช ืคืจื•ืคื™ืœ ืฉืœ ื”ืืงืจื™ื
05:52
And they are doing some fantastic research
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ื•ื”ื ืขื•ืจื›ื™ื ืžื—ืงืจ ืคื ื˜ืกื˜ื™
05:55
into the characteristics,
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ืœื’ื‘ื™ ื”ืžืืคื™ื ื™ื
05:57
into the abilities
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ื”ื™ื›ื•ืœื•ืช
05:59
and the socialization of hackers.
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ื•ื”ื—ื™ื‘ืจื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื.
06:01
But because they're a U.N. operation,
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ืืš ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื”ื ืื•ืคืจืฆื™ื” ืฉืœ ื”ืื•"ื
06:03
maybe that's why governments and corporations
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ื–ื• ืื•ืœื™ ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ืฉืžืžืฉืœื•ืช ื•ืชืื’ื™ื“ื™ื
06:05
are not that interested in them.
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ืœื ื›ืœ ื›ืš ืžืชืขื ื™ื ื™ื ื‘ื”ื.
06:07
Because it's a U.N. operation,
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื–ื• ืคืขื™ืœื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ืื•"ื,
06:09
of course, it lacks funding.
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ืื– ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ ื”ื™ื ื ืขื“ืจืช ืชืงืฆื™ื‘
06:12
But I think they're doing very important work.
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉื”ื ืขื•ืฉื™ื ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื—ืฉื•ื‘ื”
06:15
Because where we have a surplus of technology
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื”ื™ื›ืŸ ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืขื•ื“ืฃ ื‘ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื”
06:19
in the cybersecurity industry,
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ื‘ืชืขืฉื™ื™ืช ืื‘ื˜ื—ืช ื”ืžื™ื“ืข ื‘ืจืฉืช
06:22
we have a definite lack of --
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ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื‘ื”ื—ืœื˜ ื”ืขื“ืจ
06:25
call me old-fashioned --
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ืชืงืจืื• ืœื™ -ืžื™ื•ืฉืŸ
06:27
human intelligence.
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ืฉืœ ืื™ื ื˜ืœื™ื’ื ืฆื™ื” ืื ื•ืฉื™ืช.
06:29
Now, so far I've mentioned
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ืขื“ ื›ืืŸ ื”ื–ื›ืจืชื™
06:31
the hackers Anonymous
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ืืช ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื ืฉืœ ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก
06:33
who are a politically motivated hacking group.
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ืฉื”ื ืงื‘ื•ืฆื”, ืฉื”ืžื•ื˜ื™ื‘ืฆื™ื•ืช ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื”, ื”ืŸ ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ื•ืช.
06:36
Of course, the criminal justice system
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ื‘ืจื•ืจ, ืฉืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ืžืฉืคื˜ ื”ืคืœื™ืœื™
06:38
treats them as common old garden criminals.
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ืžืชื™ื—ืกืช ืืœื™ื”ื ืžืฉืœ ื”ื™ื• ื’ื ื‘ื™ ื’ื™ื ื” ืฉื™ื’ืจืชื™ื™ื
06:40
But interestingly,
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ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžืขื ื™ื™ืŸ,
06:42
Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information
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ืื ื•ื ื™ืžื•ืก ืื™ื ื ืขื•ืฉื™ื ืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ ื‘ืžื™ื“ืข ื”ืคืจื•ืฅ ืฉืœื”ื
06:44
for financial gain.
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ืœื˜ื•ื‘ืช ื”ื ืื” ื›ืœื›ืœื™ืช.
06:46
But what about the real cybercriminals?
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ืืš ืžื” ืœื’ื‘ื™ ืคื•ืฉืขื™ ื”ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ ื”ืืžื™ืชื™ื™ื?
06:50
Well real organized crime on the Internet
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ื˜ื•ื‘, ืคืฉืข ืžืื•ืจื’ืŸ ืืžื™ืชื™ ื‘ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜
06:53
goes back about 10 years
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ื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ื›ื‘ืจ ืœืคื ื™ ืขืฉื•ืจ
06:55
when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers
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ื›ืืฉืจ ืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ืฉืœ ื”ืืงืจื™ื ืื•ืงืจืื™ื ื™ื™ื ืžื—ื•ื ื ื™ื
07:00
developed a website,
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ืคื™ืชื—ื” ืืชืจ,
07:02
which led to the industrialization
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ืฉื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืชื™ืขื•ืฉ
07:04
of cybercrime.
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ืคืฉืขื™ ื”ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ.
07:07
Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet.
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ื‘ืจื•ื›ื™ื ื”ื‘ืื™ื ืœืชื—ื•ื, ื”ื ืฉื›ื— ื–ื” ืžื›ื‘ืจ, ืฉืœ ื›ื•ื›ื‘-ืงืืจื“ืจ
07:13
This is how they were advertising themselves
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ื›ืš ื”ื ืคืจืกืžื• ืืช ืขืฆืžื
07:15
a decade ago on the Net.
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ืœืคื ื™ ืขืฉื•ืจ ื‘ืจืฉืช.
07:18
Now CarderPlanet was very interesting.
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื›ื•ื›ื‘ ืงืืจื“ืจ ื”ื™ื” ืžืื•ื“ ืžืขื ื™ื™ืŸ,
07:20
Cybercriminals would go there
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ืคื•ืฉืขื™ ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ ื”ื™ื• ื”ื•ืœื›ื™ื ืœืฉื
07:22
to buy and sell stolen credit card details,
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ืœืงื ื•ืช ื•ืœืžื›ื•ืจ ืคืจื˜ื™ ืžื™ื“ืข ื’ื ื•ื‘ ืฉืœ ื›ืจื˜ื™ืกื™ ืืฉืจืื™
07:25
to exchange information
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ืœื”ื—ืœื™ืฃ ืžื™ื“ืข
07:27
about new malware that was out there.
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ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื ื•ื–ืงื” ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ื–ืžื™ื ื”
07:30
And remember, this is a time
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ื•ื–ื›ืจื•, ื–ื”ื• ื–ืžืŸ
07:32
when we're seeing for the first time
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ืฉื‘ื• ืจืื™ื ื• ืœืจืืฉื•ื ื”
07:34
so-called off-the-shelf malware.
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ืžื” ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื›ื ื•ืช, ื ื•ื–ืงืช ืžื“ืฃ.
07:36
This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff,
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ื–ื”ื• ื—ื•ืžืจ ืžื•ื›ืŸ ืœืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ, ื™ืฉืจ ืžื”ืงื•ืคืกื
07:39
which you can deploy
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ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื”ืฉืžื™ืฉื”
07:41
even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.
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ืืคื™ืœื• ืื ืื™ื ืš ื”ืืงืจ ืžืชื•ื—ื›ื ื‘ืžื™ื•ื—ื“
07:45
And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket
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ื•ื›ืš ื›ื•ื›ื‘-ืงืืจื“ืจ ื”ืคื›ื” ืœืžืขื™ืŸ ืกื•ืคืจืžืจืงื˜
07:48
for cybercriminals.
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ืœืคื•ืฉืขื™ ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ.
07:50
And its creators
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ื•ื™ื•ืฆืจื™ื•
07:52
were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial,
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ื”ื™ื• ื—ื›ืžื™ื ื•ื™ื–ืžื™ื™ื ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ืžืจืฉื™ืžื”
07:54
because they were faced
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื”ื ืขืžื“ื• ื‘ืคื ื™
07:56
with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals.
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ืืชื’ืจ ืขืฆื•ื ื›ืคื•ืฉืขื™ ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ.
07:59
And that challenge is:
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ื•ื”ืืชื’ืจ ื”ื–ื” ื”ื•ื:
08:01
How do you do business,
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ืื™ืš ืืชื” ืขื•ืฉื” ืขืกืงื™ื
08:03
how do you trust
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ืื™ืš ืืชื” ื‘ื•ื˜ื—
08:05
somebody on the Web who you want to do business with
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ื‘ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ื‘ืจืฉืช ืฉืืชื” ืจื•ืฆื” ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืื™ืชื• ืขืกืงื™ื
08:07
when you know that they're a criminal?
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ื›ืืฉืจ ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข ื‘ื•ื•ื“ืื•ืช ืฉืžื“ื•ื‘ืจ ื‘ืคื•ืฉืข?
08:10
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
08:12
It's axiomatic that they're dodgy,
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ื–ื•ื”ื™ ืืงืกื™ื•ืžื” ืฉื”ื ืžืคื•ืงืคืงื™ื,
08:14
and they're going to want to try and rip you off.
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ื•ื”ื ืžืชื›ื•ื ื ื™ื ืœืจืฆื•ืช ืœืฉื“ื•ื“ ืื•ืชืš.
08:17
So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known,
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ืื– ื”ืžืฉืคื—ื”, ื›ืคื™ ืฉืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ื”ืœื™ื‘ื” ืฉืœ ื›ื•ื›ื‘ ื”ืงืืจื“ืจ, ื ื•ื“ืขื”
08:20
came up with this brilliant idea
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ื”ืขืœืชื” ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ืžื‘ืจื™ืง
08:22
called the escrow system.
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ืฉื ืงืจื ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ืืกืงืจื•.
08:24
They appointed an officer
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ื”ื ืžื™ื ื• ืงืฆื™ืŸ
08:27
who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser.
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ืฉื™ืชื•ื•ืš ื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืกืคืง ืœืจื•ื›ืฉ
08:30
The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details;
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ืœืกืคืง ื ื ื™ื—, ื”ื™ื• ืคืจื˜ื™ ื›ืจื˜ื™ืกื™ ืืฉืจืื™ ื’ื ื•ื‘ื™ื,
08:33
the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them.
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ื”ืจื•ื›ืฉ ืจืฆื” ืœื”ืฉื™ื’ ืื•ืชื
08:36
The purchaser would send the administrative officer
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ื”ืจื•ื›ืฉ ื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ืœื— ืœืงืฆื™ืŸ ื”ืžื™ื ื”ืœื”
08:39
some dollars digitally,
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ื›ืžื” ื“ื•ืœืจื™ื, ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ื“ื™ื’ื™ื˜ืœื™,
08:41
and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details.
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ื•ื”ืกืคืง ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ื›ืจ ืืช ืคืจื˜ื™ ื›ืจื˜ื™ืก ื”ืืฉืจืื™ ื”ื’ื ื•ื‘
08:44
And the officer would then verify
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ื”ืงืฆื™ืŸ ื”ื™ื” ืื– ืžื•ื•ื“ื
08:47
if the stolen credit card worked.
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ืื ื›ืจื˜ื™ืก ื”ืืฉืจืื™ ื”ื’ื ื•ื‘ ืื›ืŸ ืขื‘ื“
08:50
And if they did,
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ื•ืื ื›ืŸ
08:52
he then passed on the money to the vendor
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืžืขื‘ื™ืจ ืื– ืืช ื”ื›ืกืฃ ืœืกืคืง
08:54
and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser.
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ื•ืืช ืคืจื˜ื™ ื›ืจื˜ื™ืก ื”ืืฉืจืื™ ืœืจื•ื›ืฉ.
08:57
And it was this
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืžื”
08:59
which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web.
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ืฉืฉื™ื ื” ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžื”ืคื›ื ื™ ืืช ืคืฉื™ืขืช ื”ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ ื‘ืจืฉืช.
09:04
And after that, it just went wild.
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ื•ืื—ืจื™ ื–ื”, ื–ื” ืคืฉื•ื˜ ื ืขืฉื” ืคืจื•ืข.
09:06
We had a champagne decade
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ื”ื™ื” ืœื ื• ืขืฉื•ืจ ืฉืœ ืฉืžืคื ื™ื”
09:08
for people who we know as Carders.
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ืœืื ืฉื™ื ื”ื™ื“ื•ืขื™ื ืœื ื• ื›ืงืืจื“ืจื™ื.
09:11
Now I spoke to one of these Carders
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ืื ื™ ื“ื™ื‘ืจืชื™ ืขื ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืงืืจื“ืจื™ื ื”ืœืœื•
09:13
who we'll call RedBrigade --
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ืฉื ื›ื ื” ืื•ืชื• ื”ื‘ืจื™ื’ื“ื” ื”ืื“ื•ืžื”
09:15
although that wasn't even his proper nickname --
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ืœืžืจื•ืช ืฉื–ื” ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืืคื™ืœื• ื”ื›ื™ื ื•ื™ ื”ื ื›ื•ืŸ ืฉืœื•
09:17
but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื‘ื˜ื—ืชื™ ืฉืœื ืื’ืœื” ืžื™ ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื”.
09:19
And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืœื™ ืื™ืš ื‘-2003 ื•-2004
09:22
he would go on sprees in New York,
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ื™ื•ืฆื ืœื—ื’ื™ื’ืช ืงื ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื ื™ื• ื™ื•ืจืง
09:25
taking out $10,000 from an ATM here,
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ืžื•ืฆื™ื 10,000 ื“ื•ืœืจ ืžื›ืกืคื•ืžื˜ ืžื›ืืŸ
09:28
$30,000 from an ATM there,
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30,000 ื“ื•ืœืจ ืžื›ืกืคื•ืžื˜ ืžืฉื,
09:31
using cloned credit cards.
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ืชื•ืš ืฉื™ืžื•ืฉ ื‘ื›ืจื˜ื™ืกื™ ืืฉืจืื™ ืžืฉื•ื‘ื˜ื™ื
09:34
He was making, on average a week,
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืžืจื•ื•ื™ื—, ื‘ืžืžื•ืฆืข ืœืฉื‘ื•ืข
09:37
$150,000 --
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150,000 ื“ื•ืœืจ
09:40
tax free of course.
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ืคื˜ื•ืจ ืžืžืก ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ
09:42
And he said
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ
09:45
that he had so much money
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ืฉื”ื™ื” ืœื• ื›ืœ ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ื›ืกืฃ
09:47
stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point
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ืžื•ื—ื‘ื,ื‘ื“ื™ืจืชื• ื‘ืืคืจ-ืื™ืกื˜-ืกื™ื™ื“, ื‘ื ืงื•ื“ืช ื–ืžืŸ ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช
09:49
that he just didn't know what to do with it
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ืฉื”ื•ื ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืœื ื™ื“ืข ืžื” ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืื™ืชื•.
09:51
and actually fell into a depression.
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ื•ืœืžืขืฉื” ื ื›ื ืก ืœื“ื™ื›ืื•ืŸ.
09:53
But that's a slightly different story,
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื”ื• ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ืงืฆืช ืฉื•ื ื”.
09:55
which I won't go into now.
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ืฉืืœื™ื• ืœื ืื›ื ืก ืขื›ืฉื™ื•.
09:57
Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade
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ืื ื›ืŸ, ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ืžืขื ื™ืŸ ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ื‘ืจื™ื’ื“ื” ื”ืื“ื•ืžื”
10:00
is that he wasn't an advanced hacker.
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ื”ื™ื” ืฉื”ื•ื ืœื ื”ื™ื” ื”ืืงืจ ืžืชืงื“ื.
10:02
He sort of understood the technology,
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ื‘ืขืจืš ืืช ื”ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื”,
10:04
and he realized that security was very important
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืฉืื‘ื˜ื—ื” ื”ื™ืชื” ื“ื‘ืจ ื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืžืื•ื“
10:07
if you were going to be a Carder,
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ืื ื‘ื›ื•ื•ื ืชืš ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืงืืจื“ืจ,
10:10
but he didn't spend his days and nights
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ืืš ื”ื•ื ืœื ื‘ื™ืœื” ืืช ื™ืžื™ื• ื•ืœื™ืœื•ืชื™ื•
10:12
bent over a computer, eating pizza,
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ืžืชื›ื•ืคืฃ ืœื™ื“ ืžื—ืฉื‘, ืื•ื›ืœ ืคื™ืฆื”
10:14
drinking coke and that sort of thing.
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ืฉื•ืชื” ืงื•ืงื” ืงื•ืœื” ื•ื›ื™ื•ืฆื ื‘ื–ื”.
10:16
He was out there on the town
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืฉื ื‘ื—ื•ืฅ, ื‘ืขื™ืจ
10:18
having a fab time enjoying the high life.
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ื ื”ื ื” ืžื”ื—ื™ื™ื ื”ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื
10:20
And this is because
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ื•ื›ืœ ื–ื” ืžืฉื•ื
10:22
hackers are only one element
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ืฉื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื ื”ื ืจืง ืืœืžื ื˜ ืื—ื“
10:25
in a cybercriminal enterprise.
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ื‘ืžื™ื–ื ืคืฉื™ืขืช ื”ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ.
10:28
And often they're the most vulnerable element of all.
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ื•ืœืขื™ืชื™ื ื”ื ื”ื—ื•ืœื™ื” ื”ืคื’ื™ืขื” ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ.
10:34
And I want to explain this to you
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ื•ืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืœื›ื ืืช ื–ื”
10:36
by introducing you to six characters
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ื‘ื”ื›ื™ืจื™ ืœื›ื 6 ื˜ื™ืคื•ืกื™ื
10:38
who I met
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ืืฉืจ ืคื’ืฉืชื™
10:40
while I was doing this research.
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ื›ืืฉืจ ืขืจื›ืชื™ ืืช ื”ืžื—ืงืจ ื”ื–ื”.
10:43
Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT --
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ื“ื™ืžื™ื˜ืจื™ ื’ื•ืœื•ื‘ื•ื‘, - ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” ืกืงืจื™ืคื˜
10:46
born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982.
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ื™ืœื™ื“ ืื•ื“ืกื” ืื•ืงืจืื™ื ื” ื‘-1982
10:49
Now he developed his social and moral compass
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื”ื•ื ืคื™ืชื— ืืช ื”ืžืฆืคืŸ ื”ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ ื•ื”ืžื•ืกืจื™ ืฉืœื•
10:52
on the Black Sea port during the 1990s.
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ื‘ื ืžืœ ื”ื™ื ื”ืฉื—ื•ืจ ื‘ืžื”ืœืš ืฉื ื•ืช ื”ืชืฉืขื™ื
10:55
This was a sink-or-swim environment
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ื–ื• ื”ื™ืชื” ืกื‘ื™ื‘ื” ืฉืœ ืฉื—ื” ืื• ื˜ื‘ืข
10:58
where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities
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ื‘ื” ืžืขื•ืจื‘ื•ืช ื‘ืคืขื™ืœื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœ ืคืฉืข ื•ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช
11:02
was entirely necessary
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ื”ื™ืชื” ื ื—ื•ืฆื” ืœื—ืœื•ื˜ื™ืŸ
11:04
if you wanted to survive.
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ืื ืจืฆื™ืช ืœืฉืจื•ื“
11:06
As an accomplished computer user,
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ื›ืžืฉืชืžืฉ ืžื—ืฉื‘ ืžื•ื›ืฉืจ,
11:08
what Dimitry did
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ืžื” ืฉื“ื™ืžื˜ืจื™ ืขืฉื”
11:10
was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown
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ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ืขื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ืงืคื™ื˜ืœื™ื–ื ื”ื’ื ื’ืกื˜ืจื™ื ืฉืœ ืขื™ืจื•
11:14
onto the Worldwide Web.
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ืœืชื•ืš ื”ืจืฉืช ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™ืช ืฉืœ ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜
11:16
And he did a great job in it.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืขืฉื” ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืžืฆื•ื™ื ืช ื‘ื›ืš
11:18
You have to understand though
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ื‘ืจื, ืขืœื™ื›ื ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ
11:20
that from his ninth birthday,
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ืฉืžืื– ื™ื•ื ื”ื•ืœื“ืชื• ื”ืชืฉื™ืขื™
11:22
the only environment he knew
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ื”ืกื‘ื™ื‘ื” ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“ื” ืฉื”ื›ื™ืจ
11:24
was gangsterism.
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ื”ื™ืชื” ืฉืœ ื’ื ื’ืกื˜ืจื™ื–ื.
11:26
He knew no other way of making a living
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ื”ื•ื ืœื ื”ื›ื™ืจ ืฉื•ื ื“ืจืš ืื—ืจืช ืœื”ืชืคืจื ืก
11:28
and making money.
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ื•ืœื”ืจื•ื•ื™ื— ื›ืกืฃ.
11:30
Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam,
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ื•ืื– ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืืช ืจื ื•ืงืื ืก ืกื•ื‘ืจืืžืื ื™ืื
11:32
aka JiLsi --
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ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” ื’'ื™ืœืกื™
11:34
founder of DarkMarket,
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ื”ืžื™ื™ืกื“ ืฉืœ ื“ืืจืง-ืžืืจืงื˜ (ื”ืฉื•ืง ื”ืฉื—ื•ืจ)
11:36
born in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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ื™ืœื™ื“ ืงื•ืœื•ืžื‘ื•, ืกืจื™ ืœื ืงื”
11:38
As an eight year-old,
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ืฉื›ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ ืฉืžื•ื ื”
11:40
he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital
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ื”ื•ื ื•ื”ื•ืจื™ื• ื ืกื• ืžื‘ื™ืจืช ืกืจื™ ืœื ืงื”
11:42
because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city,
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ื‘ืฉืœ ื ื“ื™ื“ืช ืืกืคืกื•ืฃ ืกื™ื ื’ื”ืœื™ ืœืขื™ืจ
11:45
looking for Tamils like Renu to murder.
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ื‘ื—ืคืฉื ืื—ืจ ื˜ืžื™ืœื™ื ื›ืžื• ืจื ื•, ืœืจืฆื•ื—
11:48
At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military,
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ื‘ื’ื™ืœ 11 ื”ื•ื ืชื•ื—ืงืจ ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืฆื‘ื ื”ืกืจื™-ืœื ืงื™
11:50
accused of being a terrorist,
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ื”ื•ืืฉื ื‘ื”ื™ื•ืชื• ืžื—ื‘ืœ
11:52
and his parents sent him on his own to Britain
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ื•ื”ื•ืจื™ื• ืฉืœื—ื• ืื•ืชื• ื‘ื’ืคื• ืœื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”
11:56
as a refugee seeking political asylum.
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ื›ืคืœื™ื˜ ื”ืžื‘ืงืฉ ืžืงืœื˜ ืžื“ื™ื ื™
11:59
At 13,
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ื‘ื’ื™ืœ 13
12:01
with only little English and being bullied at school,
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ืขื ืžืขื˜ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื•ืขื ืืœื™ืžื•ืช ื›ืœืคื™ื• ื‘ื‘ื™ืช ื”ืกืคืจ
12:04
he escaped into a world of computers
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ื”ื•ื ื‘ืจื— ืœืชื•ืš ืขื•ืœื ืฉืœ ืžื—ืฉื‘ื™ื
12:07
where he showed great technical ability,
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ื‘ื”ื ื”ืจืื” ืžื™ื“ื” ืžืจืฉื™ืžื” ืฉืœ ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ื˜ื›ื ื™ืช,
12:09
but he was soon being seduced
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ืืš ื‘ืžื”ืจื” ื”ื•ื ืคื•ืชื”
12:12
by people on the Internet.
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ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜
12:14
He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud,
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื•ืจืฉืข ื‘ืžื™ืจืžืช ืžืฉื›ื ืชื ื•ื›ืจื˜ื™ืกื™ ืืฉืจืื™
12:17
and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื™ืฉืชื—ืจืจ ืžื›ืœื ื•ื•ืจืžื•ื•ื“ ืกืงืจืื‘ืก ืฉื‘ืœื•ื ื“ื•ืŸ
12:20
in 2012.
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ื‘-2012
12:22
Matrix001,
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ืžื˜ืจื™ืงืก001
12:26
who was an administrator at DarkMarket.
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ืฉื”ื™ื” ืื“ืžื™ื ื™ืกื˜ืจื˜ื•ืจ ื‘ื“ืืจืง-ืžืจืงื˜
12:29
Born in Southern Germany
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ื ื•ืœื“ ื‘ื“ืจื•ื ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”
12:31
to a stable and well-respected middle class family,
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ืœืžืฉืคื—ื” ื™ืฆื™ื‘ื” ืžื›ื•ื‘ื“ืช ืžื”ืžืขืžื“ ื”ื‘ื™ื ื•ื ื™
12:33
his obsession with gaming as a teenager
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ื”ืื•ื‘ืกืกื™ื” ืฉืœื• ืœืžืฉื—ืงื™ื ื›ื ืขืจ ืžืชื‘ื’ืจ
12:36
led him to hacking.
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ื”ื•ื‘ื™ืœื” ืื•ืชื• ืœื”ืืงืจื™ื•ืช.
12:38
And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world
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ื•ื‘ืžื”ืจื” ื”ื•ื ืฉืœื˜ ื‘ืฉืจืชื™ ืขื ืง ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื
12:42
where he stored his games
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ืฉื‘ื”ื ื”ื•ื ืื™ื—ืกืŸ ืืช ืžืฉื—ืงื™ื•
12:44
that he had cracked and pirated.
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ืฉืื•ืชื ื”ื•ื ืคื™ืฆื— ื•ืฉื“ื“
12:46
His slide into criminality
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ื”ื”ื—ืœืงื” ืฉืœื• ืœืชื•ืš ื”ืคืฉืข
12:48
was incremental.
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ื”ื™ืชื” ืžืฆื˜ื‘ืจืช.
12:50
And when he finally woke up to his situation
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ื•ื›ืฉืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ื“ืข ืœืžืฆื‘ื•
12:53
and understood the implications,
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ื•ื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ื”ืฉืœื›ื•ืช
12:55
he was already in too deep.
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืขืžื•ืง ืžื“ื™.
12:58
Max Vision, aka ICEMAN --
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ืžืงืก ื•ื™ื–'ืŸ ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” ืื™ื™ืกืžืŸ (ืื™ืฉ ื”ืงืจื—)
13:00
mastermind of CardersMarket.
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ืžื•ื— ื”ืขืœ ืฉืœ ืงืืจื“ืจ-ืžืืจืงื˜
13:02
Born in Meridian, Idaho.
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ื™ืœื™ื“ ืžืจื™ื“ื™ืืŸ, ืื™ื™ื“ื”ื•
13:04
Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers
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ืžืงืก ื•ื™ื–'ืŸ ื”ื™ื” ืื—ื“ ืžื˜ื•ื‘ื™ ื‘ื•ื—ื ื™ ื”ื—ื“ื™ืจื”
13:08
working out of Santa Clara, California
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ื”ื•ื ืขื‘ื“ ื‘ืกื ื˜ื” ืงืœืจื”, ืงืœื™ืคื•ืจื ื™ื”
13:11
in the late 90s for private companies
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ื‘ืกื•ืฃ ืฉื ื•ืช ื”ืชืฉืขื™ื ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืคืจื˜ื™ื•ืช
13:13
and voluntarily for the FBI.
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ื•ื‘ื”ืชื ื“ื‘ื•ืช ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ืืฃ.ื‘ื™.ืื™
13:16
Now in the late 1990s,
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื‘ืกื•ืฃ ืฉื ื•ืช ื”ืชืฉืขื™ื
13:18
he discovered a vulnerability
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ื”ื•ื ื’ื™ืœื” ื ืงื•ื“ืช ืชื•ืจืคื”
13:20
on all U.S. government networks,
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ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืจืฉืชื•ืช ืฉืœ ืžืžืฉืœืช ืืจื”"ื‘
13:23
and he went in and patched it up --
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื ื›ื ืก ื•ืชื™ืงืŸ ืืช ื–ื”
13:25
because this included nuclear research facilities --
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื–ื” ื›ืœืœ ืžืชืงื ื™ ืžื—ืงืจ ื’ืจืขื™ื ื™
13:29
sparing the American government
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ื—ื•ืกืš ืœืžื™ืžืฉืœ ื”ืืžืจื™ืงื ื™
13:31
a huge security embarrassment.
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ืžื‘ื•ื›ื” ืื‘ื˜ื—ืชื™ืช ืขื ืงื™ืช.
13:33
But also, because he was an inveterate hacker,
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ืืš ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื’ื ื”ื™ื” ื”ืืงืจ ืžื•ืฉื‘ืข
13:36
he left a tiny digital wormhole
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื•ืชื™ืจ ื—ื•ืจ ืชื•ืœืขืช ื“ื™ื’ื™ื˜ืœื™ ืงื˜ืŸ
13:38
through which he alone could crawl.
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ืฉื“ืจื›ื• ืจืง ื”ื•ื ืœื‘ื“ื• ื™ื›ืœ ืœื–ื—ื•ืœ
13:40
But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator,
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ืืš ื–ื” ืื•ืชืจ ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื—ื•ืงืจ ื—ื“ ืขื™ืŸ ื›ื ืฉืจ
13:43
and he was convicted.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ื•ืจืฉืข ื‘ื“ื™ืŸ.
13:45
At his open prison,
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ื‘ื›ืœื ื”ืคืชื•ื— ืฉืœื•
13:47
he came under the influence of financial fraudsters,
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื•ืฉืคืข ืžื ื•ื›ืœื™ ืคื™ื ื ืกื™ื
13:49
and those financial fraudsters
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ื•ื ื•ื›ืœื™ ืคื™ื ื ืกื™ื ืืœื•
13:51
persuaded him to work for them
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ืฉื›ื ืขื• ืื•ืชื• ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืขื‘ื•ืจื
13:53
on his release.
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ืขื ืฉื—ืจื•ืจื•
13:55
And this man with a planetary-sized brain
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ื•ื”ืื™ืฉ ื”ื–ื” ืขื ืžื•ื— ื‘ื’ื•ื“ืœ ืฉืœ ืคืœื ื˜ื”
13:58
is now serving a 13-year sentence
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ืžืจืฆื” ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ืขื•ื ืฉ ืฉืœ 13 ืฉื ื•ืช ืžืืกืจ
14:00
in California.
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ื‘ืงืœื™ืคื•ืจื ื™ื”
14:02
Adewale Taiwo, aka FreddyBB --
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ืื“ื•ื•ืืœ ื˜ืื™ื•ื•, ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” ืคื“ื™-ื‘ื™-ื‘ื™
14:05
master bank account cracker
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ืืœื•ืฃ ืžืคืฆื—ื™ ื—ืฉื‘ื•ื ื•ืช ื”ื‘ื ืงื™ื
14:07
from Abuja in Nigeria.
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ืžืื‘ื•ื’'ื” ืฉื‘ื ื™ื’ืจื™ื”
14:10
He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup,
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ื”ื•ื ื”ืงื™ื ืืช ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ื”ืฉื™ื— ืฉืœื• ืขื ืฉื ืคืจื•ื–ืื™
14:13
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ืฉืฉืžื• "ื”ื•ื ืืช ื‘ื ืงื™ื" [email protected]
14:18
before arriving in Britain
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ืœืคื ื™ ื”ื’ืขืชื• ืœื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”
14:20
in 2005
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ื‘-2005
14:22
to take a Masters in chemical engineering
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœืœืžื•ื“ ืชื•ืืจ ืฉื ื™ ื‘ื”ื ื“ืกืช ื›ื™ืžื™ื”
14:24
at Manchester University.
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ื‘ืื•ื ื™ื‘ืจืกื™ื˜ืช ืžื ืฆ'ืกื˜ืจ
14:26
He impressed in the private sector,
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ื”ื•ื ื ื˜ืžืข ื‘ืžื’ื–ืจ ื”ืคืจื˜ื™
14:29
developing chemical applications for the oil industry
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ืชื•ืš ืฉื”ื•ื ืžืคืชื— ื™ื™ืฉื•ืžื™ื ื›ื™ืžื™ื™ื ืœืชืขืฉื™ืช ื”ื ืคื˜
14:32
while simultaneously running
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ืชื•ืš ืฉื‘ื• ื–ืžื ื™ืช ื”ื•ื ืžื ื”ืœ
14:34
a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions
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ืื•ืคืจืฆื™ื™ืช ื ื•ื›ืœื•ืช ืฉืœ ื‘ื ืง ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ ื•ื›ืจื˜ื™ืกื™ ืืฉืจืื™ ื‘ืฉื•ื•ื™ ืžืœื™ื•ื ื™ื
14:37
until his arrest in 2008.
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ืขื“ ืœืžืขืฆืจื• ื‘-2008
14:41
And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan,
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ื•ืื– ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ, ืฆ'ืื˜ืื™ ืื™ื•ื•ื™ืืคืŸ
14:43
aka Cha0 --
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ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” ื›ืื•0
14:45
one of the most remarkable hackers ever,
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ืื—ื“ ืžื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื ื”ืžืจืฉื™ืžื™ื ืฉื”ื™ื• ืžืขื•ืœื,
14:47
from Ankara in Turkey.
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ืžืื ืงืจื” ืฉื‘ื˜ื•ืจืงื™ื”
14:49
He combined the tremendous skills of a geek
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ื”ื•ื ืฉื™ืœื‘ ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืžื“ื”ื™ืžื•ืช ืฉืœ ื—ื ื•ืŸ
14:52
with the suave social engineering skills
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ืขื ื ืขื™ืžื•ืช ื”ืœื™ื›ื•ืช ืฉืœ ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ื ื“ืกื” ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ืช
14:56
of the master criminal.
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ืฉืœ ืคื•ืฉืข-ืขืœ.
14:59
One of the smartest people I've ever met.
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ืื—ื“ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ื›ื™ ื—ื›ืžื™ื ืฉืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืื™ ืคืขื
15:02
He also had the most effective
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ื”ื™ื• ืœื• ื’ื ืืช
15:04
virtual private network security arrangement
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ืกื™ื“ื•ืจื™ ื”ืื‘ื˜ื—ื” ื”ื›ื™ ื™ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืจืฉืช ื”ืคืจื˜ื™ืช
15:06
the police have ever encountered
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ืฉื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื” ื ืชืงืœื” ื‘ื”ื ืื™ ืคืขื
15:08
amongst global cybercriminals.
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ืžื‘ื™ืŸ ื›ืœ ืคื•ืฉืขื™ ื”ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ ื‘ืขื•ืœื.
15:10
Now the important thing
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื—ืฉื•ื‘
15:12
about all of these people
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ืœื’ื‘ื™ ื›ืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืืœื”
15:14
is they share certain characteristics
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ื”ื•ื ืฉื”ื ื—ื•ืœืงื™ื ื›ืžื” ืžืืคื™ื ื™ื ืžืฉื•ืชืคื™ื
15:16
despite the fact that they come from very different environments.
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ื—ืจืฃ ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉื”ื ื‘ืื™ื ืžืกื‘ื™ื‘ื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื•ืช
15:20
They are all people who learned their hacking skills
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ื”ื ื›ื•ืœื ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืœืžื“ื• ืืช ื›ื™ืฉื•ืจื™ ื”ืคืจื™ืฆื” ืฉืœื”ื
15:23
in their early to mid-teens.
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ื‘ืชื—ื™ืœืช ืขื“ ืžื—ืฆื™ืช ืฉื ื•ืช ื ืขื•ืจื™ื”ื
15:26
They are all people
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ื”ื ื›ื•ืœื ืื ืฉื™ื
15:28
who demonstrate advanced ability
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ืฉื”ื“ื’ื™ืžื• ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ืžืชืงื“ืžืช
15:30
in maths and the sciences.
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ื‘ืžืชืžื˜ื™ืงื” ื•ื‘ืžื“ืขื™ื
15:33
Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills,
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ื–ื›ืจื• ื–ืืช, ื›ืืฉืจ ื”ื ืคื™ืชื—ื• ืืช ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืคืจื™ืฆื” ืฉืœื”ื
15:35
their moral compass had not yet developed.
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ื”ืžืฆืคืŸ ื”ืžื•ืกืจื™ ืฉืœื”ื ืขื“ื™ืŸ ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืžืคื•ืชื—
15:39
And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0,
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ื•ืจื•ื‘ื, ืœืžืขื˜ ืกืงืจื™ืคื˜ ื•ื›ืื•0
15:42
they did not demonstrate
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ืœื ื‘ื™ื˜ืื•
15:46
any real social skills in the outside world --
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ืฉื•ื ื›ื™ืฉื•ืจื™ื ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ื™ื ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœืขื•ืœื
15:49
only on the Web.
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ืืœื ืจืง ื‘ืื™ื ื˜ืจื ื˜
15:51
And the other thing is
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ื•ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื ื•ืกืฃ ื”ื•ื
15:53
the high incidence of hackers like these
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ื”ืฉื›ื™ื—ื•ืช ื”ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื” ืฉื”ืืงืจื™ื ื›ืžื• ืืœื•
15:55
who have characteristics which are consistent
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ืžืืคื™ื ื™ื ื”ืชื•ืืžื™ื
15:58
with Asperger's syndrome.
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ืืช ืกื™ื ื“ืจื•ื ื”ืืกืคืจื’ืจ
16:01
Now I discussed this
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ืื ื™ ื“ืŸ ื‘ื–ื”
16:03
with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen
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ืขื ืคืจื•ืคืกื•ืจ ืกื™ื™ืžื•ืŸ ื‘ืืจื•ืŸ-ื›ื”ืŸ
16:05
who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge.
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ืฉื”ื•ื ืคืจื•ืคืกื•ืจ ืœืคืกื™ื›ื•ืคืชื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ื”ืชืคืชื—ื•ืชื™ืช ื‘ืงื™ืžื‘ืจื™ื“ื’'
16:09
And he has done path-breaking work on autism
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืขืฉื” ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืคื•ืจืฆืช ื“ืจืš ืขืœ ืื•ื˜ื™ื–ื
16:13
and confirmed, also for the authorities here,
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ื•ืื™ืฉืจ, ื’ื ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ืจืฉื•ื™ื•ืช ื›ืืŸ
16:15
that Gary McKinnon --
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ืฉื’ืืจื™ ืžืงื™ื ื•ืŸ
16:17
who is wanted by the United States
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ื”ืžื‘ื•ืงืฉ ื‘ืืจืฆื•ืช ื”ื‘ืจื™ืช
16:19
for hacking into the Pentagon --
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ื‘ื’ื™ืŸ ืคืจื™ืฆื” ืœืคื ื˜ื’ื•ืŸ
16:21
suffers from Asperger's
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ืกื•ื‘ืœ ืžืืกืคืจื’ืจ
16:23
and a secondary condition
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ื•ืžืฆื‘ ืฉื™ื ื™ื•ื ื™
16:25
of depression.
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ืฉืœ ื“ื™ื›ืื•ืŸ.
16:27
And Baron-Cohen explained
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ื•ื‘ืืจื•ืŸ-ื›ื”ืŸ ื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ
16:29
that certain disabilities
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ืฉืœืงื•ื™ื•ืช ืžืกื•ื™ืžื•ืช
16:31
can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world
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ื™ื›ื•ืœื•ืช ืœื‘ื•ื ืœื™ื“ื™ ื‘ื™ื˜ื•ื™ ื‘ืขื•ืœื ืฉืœ ื”ื”ืืงืจื™ื ื•ื”ืžื™ื—ืฉื•ื‘
16:34
as tremendous skills,
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ื›ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ืช ืขืฆื•ืžื•ืช
16:36
and that we should not be throwing in jail
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ื•ืฉืืกื•ืจ ืœื ื• ืœื›ืœื•ื
16:38
people who have such disabilities and skills
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ืื ืฉื™ื ื›ืืœื” ืขื ืœืงื•ื™ื•ืช ื•ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช
16:41
because they have lost their way socially
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉืื™ื‘ื“ื• ืืช ื“ืจื›ื ืžื‘ื—ื™ื ื” ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ืช
16:44
or been duped.
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ืื• ืฉื”ื•ืœื›ื• ืฉื•ืœืœ
16:46
Now I think we're missing a trick here,
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžืคืกืคืกื™ื ืื™ื–ื” ื˜ืจื™ืง ื›ืืŸ
16:49
because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail.
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉืื™ื ื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ื›ืžื• ืžืงืก ื•ื™ื–'ืŸ ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœื
16:52
And let me be blunt about this.
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ื•ืื”ื™ื” ืžืื•ื“ ื’ืœื•ื™ ืœื‘ ื‘ืขื ื™ืŸ ื–ื”
16:54
In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries
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ื‘ืกื™ืŸ, ื‘ืจื•ืกื™ื” ื•ื‘ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ืจื‘ื•ืช
16:57
that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities,
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ืืฉืจ ืžืคืชื—ื•ืช ื™ื›ื•ืœื•ืช ืชืงื™ืคืช-ืกื™ื™ื‘ืจ
17:00
this is exactly what they are doing.
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ื–ื” ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ืžื” ืฉื”ื ืขื•ืฉื™ื
17:02
They are recruiting hackers
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ื”ื ืžื’ื™ื™ืกื™ื ื”ืืงืจื™ื
17:04
both before and after they become involved
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ื’ื ืœืคื ื™ ื•ื’ื ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื”ื ื ืขืฉื™ื ืžืขื•ืจื‘ื™ื
17:07
in criminal and industrial espionage activities --
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ื‘ืคืขื™ืœื•ื™ื•ืช ืคืฉืข ื•ืจื™ื’ื•ืœ ืชืขืฉื™ื™ืชื™
17:10
are mobilizing them
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ื•ื”ื ืžื’ื™ื™ืกื™ื ืื•ืชื
17:12
on behalf of the state.
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ืœืฉื™ืจื•ืช ื”ืžื“ื™ื ื”
17:14
We need to engage
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ืขืœื™ื ื• ืœื—ืชื•ืจ ืœืžื’ืข
17:16
and find ways of offering guidance
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ื•ืœืžืฆื•ื ื“ืจื›ื™ื ืœื”ืฆื™ืข ื”ื ื—ื™ื”
17:18
to these young people,
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ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืฆืขื™ืจื™ื ืืœื”
17:20
because they are a remarkable breed.
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื”ื ื’ื–ืข ืžืจืฉื™ื
17:22
And if we rely, as we do at the moment,
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ื•ืื ื ืกืชืžืš, ื›ืคื™ ืฉืื ื• ืขื•ืฉื™ื ื›ืจื’ืข
17:24
solely on the criminal justice system
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ืืš ื•ืจืง ืขืœ ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ืžืฉืคื˜ ื”ืคืœื™ืœื™
17:27
and the threat of punitive sentences,
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ื•ื”ืื™ื•ื ืฉืœ ื’ื–ืจื™ ื“ื™ืŸ ื•ืขื ื™ืฉื”
17:30
we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.
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ืื ื• ื ื˜ืคื— ืžืคืœืฆืช ืฉืœื ื ื•ื›ืœ ืœืืœืฃ
17:33
Thank you very much for listening.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื” ืœื›ื ืขืœ ืฉื”ืงืฉื‘ืชื
17:35
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)
17:48
Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading
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ื›ืจื™ืก ืื ื“ืจืกื•ืŸ: ืื– ื”ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ืฉืœืš ืฉืฉื•ื•ื” ื”ืคืฆื”
17:50
is hire hackers.
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ื”ื•ื ืœื”ืขืกื™ืง ื”ืืงืจื™ื
17:52
How would someone get over that kind of fear
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ืื™ืš ื™ื•ื›ืœ ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืœื”ืชื’ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืกื•ื’ ื”ืคื—ื“ ื”ื–ื”
17:56
that the hacker they hire
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ืฉื”ื”ืืงืจ ืฉื”ื•ื ืฉื›ืจ
17:58
might preserve that little teensy wormhole?
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ืื•ืœื™ ื™ืฉืื™ืจ ืืช ืื•ืชื• ื—ื•ืจ ืชื•ืœืขืช ืงื˜ื ื˜ืŸ?
18:00
MG: I think to an extent,
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ืžื™ืฉื” ื’ืœื ื™: ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉื‘ืžื™ื“ื” ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช
18:02
you have to understand
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ืขืœื™ื›ื ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ
18:04
that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that.
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ืฉื–ื•ื”ื™ ืืงืกื™ื•ืžื” ืืฆืœ ื”ืืงืจื™ื ืฉื”ื ื™ืขืฉื• ื–ืืช
18:07
They're just relentless and obsessive
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ื”ื ืคืฉื•ื˜ ื—ืกืจื™ ืจื—ืžื™ื ื•ืื•ื‘ืกืกื™ื‘ื™ื™ื
18:10
about what they do.
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ืœื’ื‘ื™ ืžื” ืฉื”ื ืขื•ืฉื™ื
18:12
But all of the people who I've spoken to
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ืืš ื›ืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื“ื™ื‘ืจืชื™ ืื™ืชื
18:14
who have fallen foul of the law,
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ืืฉืจ ืขื‘ืจื• ื‘ืขื‘ืจื ืขืœ ื”ื—ื•ืง
18:16
they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance
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ื›ื•ืœื ืืžืจื•:"ื‘ื‘ืงืฉื”, ื‘ื‘ืงืฉื” ืชื ื• ืœื ื• ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ืช
18:19
to work in the legitimate industry.
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ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ื‘ืชืขืฉื™ื™ื” ื”ื—ื•ืงื™ืช
18:22
We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing.
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ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ื™ื“ืขื ื• ืื™ืš ืœื”ื’ื™ืข ืœืฉื, ืขื ืžื” ืฉืื ื• ืขื•ืฉื™ื
18:25
We want to work with you."
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืื™ืชื›ื"
18:27
Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.
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ื›ืจื™ืก ืื ื“ืจืกื•ืŸ: ืื•ืงื™ื™, ื–ื” ื”ื’ื™ื•ื ื™. ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื” ืžื™ืฉื”.
18:30
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื)

Original video on YouTube.com
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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