Hasan Elahi: FBI, here I am!

翻译人员: Chunxiang Qian 校对人员: Felix Chen

Hi there. I'm Hasan. I'm an artist.

大家好，我是哈桑，我是个艺术家

And usually when I tell people I'm an artist,

通常当我介绍自己说是艺术家的时候

they just look at me and say, "Do you paint?"

他们看着我说：“你画画吗？”

or "What kind of medium do you work in?"

或者“你在什么媒体行业工作？”

Well most of my work that I work with

我的大部分工作

is really a little bit about methodologies of working

是关于工作的方法

rather than actually a specific discipline

而非具体的一个学科分支

or a specific technique.

或者具体的技术部门

So what I'm really interested in is creative problem solving.

我真正感兴趣的是创造性地解决问题

And I had a little bit of a problem a few years ago.

几年前我遇到点小麻烦

So let me show you a little of that.

下面就给各位讲讲

So it started over here.

是这样的

And this is the Detroit airport in June 19th of 2002.

这是2002年6月19日在底特律机场

I was flying back to the U.S. from an exhibition overseas.

我刚从一个海外展会回到美国

And as I was coming back,

我回来的时候

well I was taken by the FBI, met by an FBI agent,

一个FBI特工

and went into a little room

把我带进了一个小房间

and he asked me all sorts of questions --

问了我很多问题——

"Where were you? What were you doing? Who were you talking with?

“你去哪儿了？干了些什么？接触过什么人？

Why were you there? Who pays for your trips?" --

为什么去那儿？谁给你的行程付钱？”——

all these little details.

都是这样的细节

And then literally just out of nowhere,

接着突然地

the guy asks me, "Where were you September 12th?"

那个人问我：“9月12号你去哪儿了？”

And when most of us get asked, "Where were you September 12th?"

我们大部分人被问道“你9月12号去哪儿了”这样的问题

or any date for that fact,

或者其他日子

it's like, "I don't exactly remember, but I can look it up for you."

会说“我不记得了，让我查查看。”

So I pulled out my little PDA,

我就拿出我的掌上电脑

and I said, "Okay, let's look up my appointments for September 12th."

说：“让我查查9月12号的行程”

I had September 12th -- from 10:00 a.m. to 10:30 a.m., I paid my storage bill.

我查了——10点到10点半我付了储藏室账单

From 10:30 a.m. to 12:00 p.m., I met with Judith who was one of my graduate students at the time.

10点半到12点，见了我当时一个叫朱迪思的研究生

From 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m., I taught my intro class,

12点到下午3点，上了入门课

3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., I taught my advanced class.

下午3点到6点，上了高级课

"Where were you the 11th?" "Where were you the 10th?"

“11号你去哪儿了？” “10号呢？”

"Where were you the 29th? the 30th?"

“29号那天你在哪儿？” “30号那天在哪儿？”

"Where were you October 5th?"

“10月5号你在哪儿？”

We read about six months of my calendar.

我们一共读了大约6个月的行程

And I don't think he was expecting me to have such detailed records

我估计他没料到我有这么详细的

of what I did.

行程纪录

But good thing I did,

还好我这么做了

because I don't look good in orange.

估计我穿囚服不怎么好看

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So he asked me --

他问我——

(Applause)

（掌声）

"So this storage unit that you paid the rent on,

“那你租的那个储藏室

what did you have in it?"

都在里头放什么了？”

This was in Tampa, Florida,

那是在弗罗里达的坦帕

so I was like, "Winter clothes that I have no use for in Florida.

我说：“在弗罗里达用不上的冬衣

Furniture that I can't fit in my ratty apartment.

放不进屋子的家具

Just assorted garage sale junk,

就是些整理的旧货杂物

because I'm a pack rat."

因为我是个整理狂。”

And he looks at me really confused and says, "No explosives?"

他很迷惑地看着我说：“没炸药？”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I was like, "No, no. I'm pretty certain there were no explosives.

我说：“当然没有，我敢保证没有炸药

And if there were, I would have remembered that one."

要是有的话，我肯定会记得的。”

And he's still a little confused,

他还是有点迷惑

but I think that anyone who talks to me for more than a couple of minutes

我觉得任何一个人和我谈上几句

realizes I'm not exactly a terrorist threat.

就会发现我不是个恐怖分子

And so we're sitting there,

我们坐在那儿

and eventually after about an hour, hour and a half of just going back and forth,

经过了大约一个半小时的反复问讯

he says, "Okay, I have enough information here.

他说：“我掌握足够信息了。

I'm going to pass this onto the Tampa office. They're the ones who initiated this.

我会把这个移交给坦帕办公室，是他们捅的摊子。

They'll follow up with you, and we'll take care of it."

他们会接手的，我们会负责。”

I was like, "Great."

我说：“很好。”

So I got home and the phone rings,

我回到家，手机响了

and a man introduced himself.

一个人跟我介绍说

Basically this is the FBI offices in Tampa

他是坦帕的一个FBI

where I spent six months of my life --

我在坦帕前前后后

back and forth, not six months continuously.

间断地待了有6个月

By the way, you folks know that in the United States,

另外你们知道吗，在美国

you can't take photographs of federal buildings,

你是不能拍联邦大楼的照片的

but Google can do it for you.

但是谷歌做到了

So to the folks from Google, thank you.

所以得谢谢谷歌的同志们

(Applause)

（掌声）

So I spent a lot of time in this building.

我有很多时间泡在了这栋楼里

Questions like:

回答这些问题：

"Have you ever witnessed or participated in any act

“你是否曾目击或参与过任何

that may be detrimental to the United States or a foreign nation?"

可能危害美国或其他国家的活动？”

And you also have to consider the state of mind you're in

回答这些问题的时候你得

when you're doing this.

考虑心里状态

You're basically face-to-face with someone

因为你面对的是一个能

that essentially decides life or death.

决定生死的人

Or questions such as -- actually, during the polygraph,

或是这样的问题－测谎的问题

which was how it finally ended after nine consecutive of them --

他们一连问了我九个测谎问题——

one of the polygraph questions was ...

一个是...

well the first one was, "Is your name Hasan?" "Yes."

第一个是“你的名字是哈桑吗？” “是的。”

"Are we in Florida?" "Yes." "Is today Tuesday?" "Yes."

“我们是在弗罗里达吗？” “是的。” “今天是星期二吗？” “是的”

Because you have to base it on a yes or no.

因为得让你回答判断问题

Then, of course, the next question is:

接下来当然就是：

"Do you belong to any groups that wish to harm the United States?"

“你属于任何可能危害美国的组织吗？”

I work at a university.

我在大学教书

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So I was like, "Maybe you want to ask some of my colleagues that directly."

我说，“你可能得直接问问我的同事了。”

But they said, "Okay, aside from what we had discussed,

他们说：“好吧，先不管我们的讨论的

do you belong to any groups that wish to harm the United States?"

你是否属于任何想要危害美国的组织？”

I was like, "No."

我说不

So at the end of six months of this

在这样的6个月

and nine consecutive polygraphs,

和9个测谎问题后

they said, "Hey, everything's fine."

他们说“一些都没有问题”

I was like, "I know. That's what I've been trying to tell you guys all along.

我说“没错，这正是我这么久以来一直告诉你们的，

I know everything's fine."

我知道一切都没有问题。”

So they're looking at me really odd.

他们很奇怪的看着我

And it's like, "Guys, I travel a lot."

我说“我经常旅行”

This is with the FBI.

这是我跟FBI说的

And I was like, "All we need is Alaska not to get the last memo,

我想“只希望在全国范围都搞清楚这件事

and here we go all over again."

不然又得再来这一套。”

And there was a sincere concern there.

这是我真正担心的

And he was like, "You know, if you get into trouble,

他说：“你要有什么麻烦，

give us a call -- we'll take care of it."

给我打个电话－我们会搞定的。”

So ever since then, before I would go anywhere, I would call the FBI.

自那以后，去哪儿我都会打电话告诉FBI

I would tell them, "Hey guys, this is where I'm going. This is my flight.

我告诉他们“嗨，我要出发啦，这是我的航班，

Northwest flight seven coming into Seattle

3月12号西北航空

on March 12th" or whatever.

去西雅图之类的

A couple weeks later, I'd call again, let them know.

几周以后，我会再打电话告诉他们

It wasn't that I had to, but I chose to.

并不是我被强制这么做，而是我选择这么做

Just wanted to say, "Hey guys.

只是想告诉他们

Don't want to make it look like I'm making any sudden moves."

“我可没想搞什么小动作”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

"I don't want you guys to think that I'm about to flee.

“我可不想让你们觉得我准备逃命了

Just letting you know. Heads up."

只是想让你们知道，有所准备”

And so I just kept doing this over and over and over.

于是我就一直一直这样做

And then the phone calls turned into emails,

然后电话变成电子邮件

and the emails got longer and longer and longer ...

电子邮件变的越来越长...

with pictures,

附插图

with travel tips.

还有旅游贴士

Then I'd make websites.

接着我做了个网站

And then I built this over here. Let me go back to it over here.

我建了个这样的网站，让我们看看这个

So I actually designed this back in 2003.

我是在2003年设计了它

So this kind of tracks me at any given moment.

能追踪我的特定时刻行程

I wrote some code for my mobile phone.

我给手机程序写了代码

Basically, what I decided is okay guys, you want to watch me, that's cool.

我决定，你们不是要监视我吗，没问题

But I'll watch myself. It's okay.

我监视我自己，好了吧

You don't have to waste your energy or your resources.

你们不用浪费精力浪费资源

And I'll help you out.

我帮你都干了

So in the process, I start thinking, well what else might they know about me?

于是在这个过程中我开始思考，他们还知道我的什么信息？

Well they probably have all my flight records,

他们应该知道我的飞行纪录吧

so I decided to put all my flight records from birth online.

于是我决定把所有的飞行纪录都放上去

So you can see, Delta 1252

你看，Delta 1252

going from Kansas City to Atlanta.

从堪萨斯城飞往亚特兰大

And then you see, these are some of the meals that I've been fed on the planes.

这是我在飞机上吃的几餐

This was on Delta 719

这是在Delta 719

going from JFK to San Francisco.

从肯尼迪机场飞往旧金山

See that? They won't let me on a plane with that,

看吧，他们不让你把这个（刀子）带上飞机

but they'll give it to me on the plane.

但是他们在飞机上给你这个

(Laughter)

（笑声）

These are the airports that I hang out in,

这是些我去过的机场

because I like airports.

因为我喜欢机场

That's Kennedy airport, May 19th, Tuesday.

这是肯尼迪机场，5月19日，星期二

This is in Warsaw.

这是华沙

Singapore. You can see, they're kind of empty.

新加坡 你看这些地方基本空的

These images are shot really anonymously

这是照片都是随便拍的

to the point where it could be anyone.

不分时地

But if you can cross-reference this with the other data,

但是如果你如果和其他数据交叉比较

then you're basically replaying the roll of the FBI agent

就能想FBI特工一样

and putting it all together.

把这些信息整合起来

And when you're in a situation

当你得证实

where you have to justify every moment of your existence,

每一秒钟的活动时

you're put in the situation where you react in a very different manner.

你就处在一种完全不同的生活状态种

At the time that this was going on,

当这一切进行时

the last thing on my mind was "art project."

我脑中就想着“艺术项目”

I was certainly not thinking, hey, I got new work here.

不是想“啊，我有新的工作”

But after going through this, after realizing, well what just happened?

但是经历这一切，明白了发生的事情，

And after piecing together this, this and this,

把所有的细节放到一起

this way of actually trying to figure out what happened for myself

这种探索自我的方式

eventually evolved into this,

最后确实

and it actually became this project.

变成了这个项目

So these are the stores that I shop in -- some of them --

这些是我去过购物的一些商店

because they need to know.

因为他们需要知道这些

This is me buying some duck flavored paste

这是我买的鸭酱

at the Ranch 99 in Daly City

这是10月15日

on Sunday, November 15th.

在达利市的牧场路99号

At Coreana Supermarket

在一家韩国超市

buying my kimchi because I like kimchi.

买泡菜 因为我喜欢泡菜

And I bought some crabs too right around there,

在那儿我还买了一些蟹

and some chitlins at the Safeway in Emoryville.

在埃默里维尔的西夫韦买了点猪肠

And laundry too. Laundry detergent at West Oakland --

还有洗衣剂 在西奥克兰买的洗衣剂－

East Oakland, sorry.

不好意思，东奥克兰

And then my pickled jellyfish

腌海蜇皮

at the Hong Kong Supermarket on Route 18 in East Brunswick.

这是在东布伦瑞克的18号路上的香港超市

Now if you go to my bank records,

如果你查看我的银行纪录

it'll actually show something from there,

会看到这些

so you know that, on May 9th,

5月9日

that I bought $14.79 in fuel from Safeway Vallejo.

我从巴列霍的西夫韦加了14.79美元的油

So not only that I'm giving this information here and there,

如此一来不但是我提供信息

but now there's a third party,

还加入了第三方

an independent third party, my bank,

独立第三方，我的银行

that's verifying that, yes indeed, I was there at this time.

它给我作证，我确实在那

So there's points, and these points are actually being cross-referenced.

这些点就有了交叉参考

And there's a verification taking place.

也就有了旁证

Sometimes they're really small purchases.

有时候是很小额的购买

So 34 cents foreign transaction fee.

34美分的外汇费用

All of these are extracted directly from my bank accounts,

这是都是直接从我的银行帐户提取的

and everything pops up right away.

每一条都立刻显示出来

Sometimes there's a lot of information.

有时候信息量很大

This is exactly where my old apartment in San Francisco was.

这是我在旧金山的旧公寓

And then sometimes you get this.

有时候是这个

Sometimes you just get this, just an empty hallway in Salt Lake City,

有时候只是盐湖城一个空空的走廊

January 22nd.

1月22日

And I can tell you exactly who I was with, where I was,

我能说出同行的人，地点

because this is what I had to do with the FBI.

因为向FBI我就得做到这样

I had to tell them every little detail of everything.

我得告诉他们每一个细节

I spend a lot of time on the road.

我花很多时间在路上

This is a parking lot in Elko, Nevada

这是内华达州埃尔克的一个停车场

off of Route 80

80号路

at 8:01 p.m. on August 19th.

8月19号晚上八点零一

I spend a lot of time in gas stations too -- empty train stations.

还有很多时间是在加油站－空空的火车站

So there's multiple databases.

因此有多个数据库

And there's thousands and thousands and thousands of images.

还有成千上万的照片

There's actually 46,000 images right now on my site,

我这个网站上有四万六千张照片

and the FBI has seen all of them --

FBI看过全部照片－

at least I trust they've seen all of them.

至少我相信他们都看过

And then sometimes you don't get much information at all,

有时候没什么信息

you just get this empty bed.

只是张空床

And sometimes you get a lot of text information and no visual information.

有时候很多文字信息但没有图片信息

So you get something like this.

有时候是这个

This, by the way, is the location of my favorite sandwich shop in California --

这是加利福利亚我最喜欢的三明治点

Vietnamese sandwich.

越南三明治

So there's different categorizations

这些是不同的分类

of meals eaten outside

外出用餐

empty train stations, empty gas stations.

空荡荡的火车站，空荡荡的加油站

These are some of the meals that I've been cooking at home.

这些是我在家做的饭

So how do you know these are meals eaten at home?

你怎么知道这些是在家用餐呢？

Well the same plate shows up a whole bunch of times.

因为这个碟子重复出镜了很多次

So again, you have to do some detective work here.

你得作点侦探工作

So sometimes the databases get so specific.

有时候这些数据非常特定化

These are all tacos eaten in Mexico City

这些是在墨西哥城我吃掉的玉米饼

near a train station

是在一个火车站附近

on July fifth to July sixth.

从7月15日到16日

At 11:39 a.m. was this one.

中午11点39分是这个

At 1:56 p.m. was this one. At 4:59 p.m. was this one.

下午1点56分是这个，晚上4点59分是这个

So I time-stamp my life every few moments.

每隔一会儿我就纪录下我的生活

Every few moments I shoot the image.

每隔一会儿我就拍照片

Now it's all done on my iPhone,

都是拿iPhone拍的

and it all goes straight up to my server,

直接传到我的服务器上

and my server does all the backend work

服务器进行后台操作

and categorizes things and puts everything together.

并分类排放

They need to know where I'm doing my business,

他们要知道我在干什么

because they want to know about my business.

因为他们想知道

So on December 4th, I went here.

12月4日我去了这儿

And on Sunday, June 14th at 2009 --

2009年6月14日星期日

this was actually about two o'clock in the afternoon

下午两点

in Skowhegan, Maine -- this was my apartment there.

在缅因州的Skowhegan，我的公寓在那儿

So what you're basically seeing here

你这儿能看到

is all bits and pieces and all this information.

是一点一滴的信息

If you go to my site, there's tons of things.

如果你去我的网站，都是大量的这样的信息

And really, it's not the most user-friendly interface.

而且这不是个用户友好的界面

It's actually quite user-unfriendly.

可以说用户不友好

And one of the reasons, also being part of the user-unfriendliness,

原因之一，也是使用不便的之一是

is that everything is there,

网站的一切

but you have to really work through it.

你得费力查看

So by me putting all this information out there,

我把所有的信息放上去

what I'm basically telling you is I'm telling you everything.

意味着我告诉你了我的一切

But in this barrage of noise

但是尽管我把这一切

that I'm putting out,

完全公开

I actually live an incredibly anonymous and private life.

我仍然过着非常匿名的隐私的生活

And you know very little about me actually.

你知道我的很少

And really so I've come to the conclusion

因此我得出这样的结论

that the way you protect your privacy,

保护你隐私的方法

particularly in an era where everything is cataloged

在这个一切被分类

and everything is archived and everything is recorded,

一切被归档一切被纪录的时代里

there's no need to delete information anymore.

没有必要删除信息

So what do you do when everything is out there?

当所有信息都暴露的时候你怎么办？

Well you have to take control over it.

你得控制它

And if I give you this information directly,

如果我直接给你信息

it's a very different type of identity

这跟你尝试获取信息片段

than if you were to try to go through and try to get bits and pieces.

是非常不同的方式

The other thing that's also interesting that's going on here

还有个有趣的是

is the fact that intelligence agencies --

特工们——

and it doesn't matter who they are --

这跟他们是谁无关——

they all operate in an industry

他们运作的产业是基于

where their commodity is information,

信息作为产品

or restricted access to information.

或者说获取信息的受约束性途径

And the reason their information has any value

他们的信息具有价值的原因

is, well, because no one else has access to it.

是因为别人没有办法获取它

And by me cutting out the middle man

当我去掉中间环节

and giving it straight to you,

直接将信息提供给你

the information that the FBI has has no value,

FBI拥有的信息就毫无用处了

so thus devaluing their currency.

这就使他们贬值了

And I understand that, on an individual level,

这从个人层面来说

it's purely symbolic.

这是纯粹是象征性的

But if 300 million people in the U.S.

但是如果300百万美国人

started doing this,

都这么做的话

we would have to redesign the entire intelligence system

我们就得完全重新设计

from the ground up.

情报系统

Because it just wouldn't work if everybody was sharing everything.

因为如果每个人都分享信息的话情报系统就瘫痪了

And we're getting to that.

而我们正在靠近

When I first started this project,

当我开始这个项目的时候

people were looking at me and saying,

人们看着我说

"Why would you want to tell everybody what you're doing, where you're at?

“你干嘛想让全世界都知道你在哪儿干什么？”

Why are you posting these photos?"

“你干吗要把照片都传上去？”

This was an age before people were Tweeting everywhere

这还是人们没开始用推特的时候

and 750 million people

现在7.5亿人

were posting status messages

在修改状态

or poking people.

或给别人打招呼

So in a way, I'm glad that I'm completely obsolete.

某种程度上说我很高兴我完全过时了

I'm still doing this project, but it is obsolete,

我还在做这个项目，但完全过时了

because you're all doing it.

因为你们都在这么做

This is something that we all are doing on a daily basis,

这是我们每天都在做的事情

whether we're aware of it or not.

虽然我们也许没有意识到

So we're creating our own archives and so on.

我们在创造自己的档案

And you know, some of my friends have always said,

我的一些朋友总说

"Hey, you're just paranoid. Why are you doing this?

“你太疑心病了，干吗总做这些？

Because no one's really watching.

因为没人在看你

No one's really going to bother you."

没人会在乎你的。”

So one of the things that I do

我做的一件事是

is I actually look through my server logs very carefully.

仔细的通过服务器查看浏览日志

Because it's about surveillance.

因为这是监视

I'm watching who's watching me.

我得看看谁在监视我

And I came up with these.

我找到了这些

So these are some of my sample logs.

这些是部分样本

And just little bits and pieces, and you can see some of the things there.

仅仅是这些片段，你可以看到些东西

And I cleaned up the list a little bit so you can see.

我把单子缩减你们可以看到

So you can see that the Homeland Security likes to come by --

可以看见国土安全部喜欢造访这里

Department of Homeland Security.

国土安全部

You can see the National Security Agency likes to come by.

还有国家安全局也来过

I actually moved very close to them. I live right down the street from them now.

我实际上搬到了离他们很近的地方 我和他们住同一条街

Central Intelligence Agency.

中央情报安全局

Executive Office of the President.

总统办公室

Not really sure why they show up, but they do.

不明白他们问什么来，不过他们来了

I think they kind of like to look at art.

我想他们可能喜欢艺术

And I'm glad that we have patrons of the arts in these fields.

很高兴我们有那个领域的赞助人

So thank you very much. I appreciate it.

那么非常感谢 谢谢你们

(Applause)

（掌声）

Bruno Giussani: Hasan, just curious.

布鲁诺･朱萨尼：哈桑，我很好奇

You said, "Now everything automatically goes from my iPhone,"

你说“一切都自动来自我的iPhone”

but actually you do take the pictures and put on information.

但你是怎么拍照然后附上信息的呢

So how many hours of the day does that take?

每天得花多少时间？

HE: Almost none.

HE：几乎很少

It's no different

这跟发个信息

than sending a text.

没有区别

It's no different than checking an email.

跟查个电子邮件一样

It's one of those things, we got by just fine before we had to do any of those.

就跟那些一样 我们没要做那些之前也都没事儿

So it's just become another day.

所以这都是一样的

I mean, when we update a status message,

当我们更新状态的时候

we don't really think about how long that's going to take.

我们不会想这花了多少时间

So it's really just a matter of my phone clicking a couple of clicks,

所以基本只是我在手机上点了点

send, and then it's done.

发送，就好了

And everything's automated at the other end.

一切都是终端处理

BG: On the day you are in a place where there is no coverage, the FBI gets crazy?

BG：如果到了无法追踪的区域，FBI就会抓狂？

HE: Well it goes to the last point that I was at.

HE：能找到我最后所在的点

So it holds onto the very last point.

知道最后一个地点

So if I'm on a 12-hour flight,

如果我有个12小时的飞行

you'll see the last airport that I departed from.

你就能看到最后一个我离开的机场

BG: Hasan, thank you very much. (HE: Thank you.)

BG：哈桑，非常谢谢 （HE：谢谢）

(Applause)

（掌声）