Hasan Elahi: FBI, here I am!

Translator: Linying Deng Reviewer: Ann Lee

Hi there. I'm Hasan. I'm an artist.

大家好，我叫哈桑，系一個藝術家

And usually when I tell people I'm an artist,

通常我咁樣講

they just look at me and say, "Do you paint?"

大家會望住我問：“你系畫畫噶？”

or "What kind of medium do you work in?"

或者“你從事邉方面嘅藝術？”

Well most of my work that I work with

其實我做嘅大部分工作

is really a little bit about methodologies of working

都系同工作方法論有關

rather than actually a specific discipline

而唔系具體某一種學科

or a specific technique.

或者某一種技術

So what I'm really interested in is creative problem solving.

我所感興趣嘅系用創意方式解決問題

And I had a little bit of a problem a few years ago.

而且幾年前我的確遇到少少問題

So let me show you a little of that.

等我講畀你聽

So it started over here.

事情發生系呢度

And this is the Detroit airport in June 19th of 2002.

底特律機場，2002年六月19號

I was flying back to the U.S. from an exhibition overseas.

我參加完一個海外展覽準備飛返美國

And as I was coming back,

就嚟要飛嘅時候

well I was taken by the FBI, met by an FBI agent,

被FBI帶走，去見一個FBI探員

and went into a little room

行入一間細房

and he asked me all sorts of questions --

他問咗我各種各樣嘅問題

"Where were you? What were you doing? Who were you talking with?

“你係邊度？做咗乜嘢？同邊個講過嘢？

Why were you there? Who pays for your trips?" --

“點解要去個度？邊個出旅費？”

all these little details.

乜都問

And then literally just out of nowhere,

突然間毫無根據

the guy asks me, "Where were you September 12th?"

佢問我：“九月12號你係邊度？”

And when most of us get asked, "Where were you September 12th?"

大部分人被問到九月12號係邉

or any date for that fact,

或者任何一日

it's like, "I don't exactly remember, but I can look it up for you."

都會話：“我唔系好記得，不過可以查下”

So I pulled out my little PDA,

所以我就攞出我部PDA

and I said, "Okay, let's look up my appointments for September 12th."

我話：“我地睇下九月12號嘅行程”

I had September 12th -- from 10:00 a.m. to 10:30 a.m., I paid my storage bill.

九月12號，早上十點到十點半，交咗倉庫保管費

From 10:30 a.m. to 12:00 p.m., I met with Judith who was one of my graduate students at the time.

十點半到12點，我同朱迪思見面，佢系我當時嘅一個研究生

From 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m., I taught my intro class,

十二點到下午三點，我教初級班

3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., I taught my advanced class.

三點到六點，教高級班

"Where were you the 11th?" "Where were you the 10th?"

“你11號係邉？”“10號係邉？”

"Where were you the 29th? the 30th?"

“29、30號係邊？”

"Where were you October 5th?"

“十月五號咧？”

We read about six months of my calendar.

我地翻閱咗我六個月嘅記錄

And I don't think he was expecting me to have such detailed records

佢大概估唔到我將每日行程

of what I did.

記得咁詳盡

But good thing I did,

好彩我有記

because I don't look good in orange.

因為我著橙色監等服唔好睇

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So he asked me --

佢問我

(Applause)

（掌聲）

"So this storage unit that you paid the rent on,

“你租呢個倉庫

what did you have in it?"

“用來裝乜嘢？”

This was in Tampa, Florida,

倉庫位於佛羅里達州坦帕市

so I was like, "Winter clothes that I have no use for in Florida.

我話：“裝我系佛羅里達唔著嘅冬裝

Furniture that I can't fit in my ratty apartment.

“同埋我間爛公寓裝唔落嘅傢俬

Just assorted garage sale junk,

“類似車庫大平賣個啲嘢

because I'm a pack rat."

“因為我鐘意執垃圾”

And he looks at me really confused and says, "No explosives?"

佢非常疑惑咁望著我話：“冇爆炸物？”

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I was like, "No, no. I'm pretty certain there were no explosives.

我答佢：“冇啊，我可以肯定

And if there were, I would have remembered that one."

“如果有的話，我實記得”

And he's still a little confused,

他仲系有啲迷惑

but I think that anyone who talks to me for more than a couple of minutes

我諗任何人同我傾多幾句

realizes I'm not exactly a terrorist threat.

都會知道我唔系恐怖份子

And so we're sitting there,

所以我地就坐係個度

and eventually after about an hour, hour and a half of just going back and forth,

反反復複問答咗大概個半鐘

he says, "Okay, I have enough information here.

佢終於講：“得了，搜齊資料了

I'm going to pass this onto the Tampa office. They're the ones who initiated this.

“我會發送去坦帕辦公室，系佢地負責嘅

They'll follow up with you, and we'll take care of it."

“佢地會同你跟進，我地會處理好”

I was like, "Great."

我話：“好極了”

So I got home and the phone rings,

我返到屋企電話就響了

and a man introduced himself.

一個男人介紹咗佢自己

Basically this is the FBI offices in Tampa

呢度就系FBI係坦帕嘅辦公地點

where I spent six months of my life --

我係個度六個月

back and forth, not six months continuously.

系出出入入，唔系連續六個月

By the way, you folks know that in the United States,

順便講下，你地知道係美國

you can't take photographs of federal buildings,

聯邦大樓系唔畀影相噶

but Google can do it for you.

但系Google可以幫你影

So to the folks from Google, thank you.

Google嘅夥計，多謝曬

(Applause)

（掌聲）

So I spent a lot of time in this building.

我經常出入呢棟建築

Questions like:

佢地嘅問題包括

"Have you ever witnessed or participated in any act

“你有否目睹或者參與任何

that may be detrimental to the United States or a foreign nation?"

“可能對美國或者其他國家有害嘅行動？”

And you also have to consider the state of mind you're in

當你接受審問嘅時候，要考慮

when you're doing this.

自己嘅心情

You're basically face-to-face with someone

因為基本上你對著嘅

that essentially decides life or death.

系掌握生殺大權嘅人

Or questions such as -- actually, during the polygraph,

或者其他問題——其實係進行測謊嘅時候

which was how it finally ended after nine consecutive of them --

我連續測過九次先確認清白

one of the polygraph questions was ...

其中一個測謊問題系…

well the first one was, "Is your name Hasan?" "Yes."

第一個系“你系唔系叫哈桑？”“系”

"Are we in Florida?" "Yes." "Is today Tuesday?" "Yes."

“呢度系唔系佛羅里達？”“系”“今日系唔系星期二？”“系”

Because you have to base it on a yes or no.

因為你只可以回答系定唔系

Then, of course, the next question is:

當然，跟住落來嘅問題就系

"Do you belong to any groups that wish to harm the United States?"

“你系唔系屬於任何想要危害美國嘅組織？”

I work at a university.

我係大學做嘢

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So I was like, "Maybe you want to ask some of my colleagues that directly."

於是我回答：“或者你可以直接問下我啲同事”

But they said, "Okay, aside from what we had discussed,

不過佢地話：“除咗之前講過個啲

do you belong to any groups that wish to harm the United States?"

“你系唔系屬於任何想要危害美國嘅組織？”

I was like, "No."

我回答：“唔系”

So at the end of six months of this

咁樣過咗六個月

and nine consecutive polygraphs,

測謊九次之後

they said, "Hey, everything's fine."

佢地話：“一切正常”

I was like, "I know. That's what I've been trying to tell you guys all along.

我話：“我知，我一直都想話畀你地知

I know everything's fine."

“我知我冇問題”

So they're looking at me really odd.

佢地奇怪咁望著我

And it's like, "Guys, I travel a lot."

我話：“夥計，我成日出差”

This is with the FBI.

我同FBI講

And I was like, "All we need is Alaska not to get the last memo,

“你地最好連阿拉斯加都通知到

and here we go all over again."

“唔好到時又嚟一次”

And there was a sincere concern there.

我系真系擔心

And he was like, "You know, if you get into trouble,

佢話：“如果你遇到麻煩

give us a call -- we'll take care of it."

“打畀我地，我地會搞掂”

So ever since then, before I would go anywhere, I would call the FBI.

所以自此之後，我出發去第二度之前都會打畀FBI

I would tell them, "Hey guys, this is where I'm going. This is my flight.

同佢地講：“老友，我要去呢度，航班號幾多

Northwest flight seven coming into Seattle

“西北航空七號班機飛去西雅圖”

on March 12th" or whatever.

“時間系三月12號”之類

A couple weeks later, I'd call again, let them know.

幾個星期之後，我又會電話知會一聲

It wasn't that I had to, but I chose to.

佢地冇叫我咁做，系我想咁做

Just wanted to say, "Hey guys.

想話：“夥計

Don't want to make it look like I'm making any sudden moves."

“我唔想你地誤會我有乜嘢突然行動”

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"I don't want you guys to think that I'm about to flee.

“唔想你地以為我要走路

Just letting you know. Heads up."

“講聲你地知，小心”

And so I just kept doing this over and over and over.

於是我就不斷不斷咁樣做

And then the phone calls turned into emails,

之後電話變咗電子郵件

and the emails got longer and longer and longer ...

電子郵件仲越寫越長

with pictures,

帶埋相片

with travel tips.

旅行貼士

Then I'd make websites.

我識得做網頁

And then I built this over here. Let me go back to it over here.

所以我整咗呢個網站，打開畀你地睇下

So I actually designed this back in 2003.

系我2003年設計嘅

So this kind of tracks me at any given moment.

可以睇到我每時每刻嘅行蹤

I wrote some code for my mobile phone.

我寫咗個手機程序

Basically, what I decided is okay guys, you want to watch me, that's cool.

基本上我嘅諗法系，你想監視我，冇問題

But I'll watch myself. It's okay.

但我會監視我自己，唔緊要

You don't have to waste your energy or your resources.

你唔需要浪費精力同埋人手

And I'll help you out.

等我嚟幫你

So in the process, I start thinking, well what else might they know about me?

係過程中，我開始思考，佢地對我仲有乜嘢瞭解？

Well they probably have all my flight records,

佢地可能掌握咗我全部飛行記錄

so I decided to put all my flight records from birth online.

所以我決定將我從出世以來嘅飛行記錄放上網

So you can see, Delta 1252

你可以見到，Delta 1252

going from Kansas City to Atlanta.

從堪薩斯飛去亞特蘭大

And then you see, these are some of the meals that I've been fed on the planes.

你睇，呢啲系我食過嘅飛機餐

This was on Delta 719

呢個系Delta 719

going from JFK to San Francisco.

從甘乃迪機場飛去三藩市

See that? They won't let me on a plane with that,

見到未？佢地唔畀我帶刀上飛機

but they'll give it to me on the plane.

但系佢地會係飛機上畀我一把

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

These are the airports that I hang out in,

呢啲系我逛過嘅機場

because I like airports.

因為我鐘意機場

That's Kennedy airport, May 19th, Tuesday.

呢個系五月19號星期二係甘乃迪機場

This is in Warsaw.

呢個系華沙

Singapore. You can see, they're kind of empty.

星加坡，你可以見到，機場冇乜人

These images are shot really anonymously

呢啲圖片嘅攝影者

to the point where it could be anyone.

可以系任何人

But if you can cross-reference this with the other data,

但如果同其他數據互相參考

then you're basically replaying the roll of the FBI agent

基本上你就系用FBI探員嘅方式

and putting it all together.

整理出頭緒

And when you're in a situation

如果你不得已

where you have to justify every moment of your existence,

要證明自己每時每刻嘅行蹤

you're put in the situation where you react in a very different manner.

你可以用非常特別嘅方式嚟回應

At the time that this was going on,

我受到懷疑嘅個段時間

the last thing on my mind was "art project."

根本冇諗過“藝術項目”

I was certainly not thinking, hey, I got new work here.

我當然唔可能諗，好了，有工開了

But after going through this, after realizing, well what just happened?

但經歷之後，諗通發生咗乜嘢之後

And after piecing together this, this and this,

將各種細節砌埋一齊

this way of actually trying to figure out what happened for myself

用呢種方式自我探索成件事

eventually evolved into this,

最後慢慢演變

and it actually became this project.

就成為咗呢個項目

So these are the stores that I shop in -- some of them --

呢啲系我幫襯過嘅一部分士多

because they need to know.

因為佢地想知道我去過邉

This is me buying some duck flavored paste

我係呢度買過鴨醬

at the Ranch 99 in Daly City

地點系達利市農場路99號

on Sunday, November 15th.

時間系11月15號星期日

At Coreana Supermarket

一家韓國超市

buying my kimchi because I like kimchi.

買緊泡菜，因為我鐘意食

And I bought some crabs too right around there,

仲係個邊買咗蟹

and some chitlins at the Safeway in Emoryville.

係愛莫利維爾嘅超市買咗豬腸

And laundry too. Laundry detergent at West Oakland --

係西奧克蘭買咗洗衣液

East Oakland, sorry.

系東奧克蘭，唔好意思

And then my pickled jellyfish

仲買過醃海蜇

at the Hong Kong Supermarket on Route 18 in East Brunswick.

地點系東布倫瑞克18大道上嘅香港超市

Now if you go to my bank records,

如果你點開我嘅銀行記錄

it'll actually show something from there,

就會見到

so you know that, on May 9th,

系五月九號呢日

that I bought $14.79 in fuel from Safeway Vallejo.

我係瓦列霍嘅超市入過$14.79嘅油

So not only that I'm giving this information here and there,

所以唔單只系我係度提供信息

but now there's a third party,

仲有第三方參與提供

an independent third party, my bank,

獨立嘅第三方，即系我嘅銀行

that's verifying that, yes indeed, I was there at this time.

可以證明我當時的確係個度

So there's points, and these points are actually being cross-referenced.

所以有幾個點可以交叉對比

And there's a verification taking place.

仲可以攞出證明

Sometimes they're really small purchases.

有陣時只系買咗少少嘢

So 34 cents foreign transaction fee.

譬如34美分嘅外匯手續費

All of these are extracted directly from my bank accounts,

呢啲全部系從我嘅銀行帳戶提取出來噶

and everything pops up right away.

可以一目了然

Sometimes there's a lot of information.

有陣時信息好多

This is exactly where my old apartment in San Francisco was.

譬如呢個系我係三藩市嘅舊公寓

And then sometimes you get this.

有陣時系咁樣

Sometimes you just get this, just an empty hallway in Salt Lake City,

有陣時系咁，鹽湖城嘅一條空走廊

January 22nd.

一月22號

And I can tell you exactly who I was with, where I was,

我可以話畀你知我當時係邊度同邊個一齊

because this is what I had to do with the FBI.

因為FBI就系要呢啲信息

I had to tell them every little detail of everything.

每件事嘅每個小細節都要話畀佢地知

I spend a lot of time on the road.

我經常出街

This is a parking lot in Elko, Nevada

呢個系內華達艾爾科嘅一個停車場

off of Route 80

係80號公路邉

at 8:01 p.m. on August 19th.

時間系八月19號晚上8:01

I spend a lot of time in gas stations too -- empty train stations.

我仲經常去加油站入油，呢個系空嘅火車站

So there's multiple databases.

所以我有多個資料庫

And there's thousands and thousands and thousands of images.

包含成千上萬張照片

There's actually 46,000 images right now on my site,

我個網站依家有四萬六千張相

and the FBI has seen all of them --

FBI已經全部睇過曬

at least I trust they've seen all of them.

至少我相信佢地睇過

And then sometimes you don't get much information at all,

有陣時信息少

you just get this empty bed.

譬如得張空床

And sometimes you get a lot of text information and no visual information.

有陣時淨系得文字信息冇圖像

So you get something like this.

譬如咁樣

This, by the way, is the location of my favorite sandwich shop in California --

呢個系我係加州最鐘意嘅三文治鋪

Vietnamese sandwich.

越南三文治

So there's different categorizations

我將信息分門別類

of meals eaten outside

包括係出邊食嘅飯

empty train stations, empty gas stations.

空火車站，空加油站

These are some of the meals that I've been cooking at home.

呢啲系我自己係屋企煮嘅飯

So how do you know these are meals eaten at home?

點樣證明系係屋企？

Well the same plate shows up a whole bunch of times.

可以見到同一只碟出現好多次

So again, you have to do some detective work here.

呢點需要你去觀察推理

So sometimes the databases get so specific.

有啲資料庫非常特定

These are all tacos eaten in Mexico City

呢啲系我係墨西哥城食嘅粟米卷

near a train station

係一個火車站附近

on July fifth to July sixth.

從七月五號到六號

At 11:39 a.m. was this one.

中午11:39食嘅系呢個

At 1:56 p.m. was this one. At 4:59 p.m. was this one.

呢個系下晝1:56食嘅，呢個系4:59食嘅

So I time-stamp my life every few moments.

每隔一陣我就會幫我嘅生活印時章

Every few moments I shoot the image.

隔一陣就影張相

Now it's all done on my iPhone,

依家全部用iPhone搞掂

and it all goes straight up to my server,

直接就可以上傳到我嘅服務器

and my server does all the backend work

服務器會進行後端工作

and categorizes things and puts everything together.

將信息分類放置

They need to know where I'm doing my business,

FBI想知道我係邊度上廁所

because they want to know about my business.

因為佢地要瞭解我嘅行動

So on December 4th, I went here.

12月四號我去咗呢度

And on Sunday, June 14th at 2009 --

2009年六月14號星期日

this was actually about two o'clock in the afternoon

大概下晝兩點

in Skowhegan, Maine -- this was my apartment there.

係緬因州斯科希根，係我嘅公寓入邉

So what you're basically seeing here

你依家見到嘅

is all bits and pieces and all this information.

系零零碎碎嘅信息

If you go to my site, there's tons of things.

上我嘅網站仲可以見到好多其他嘢

And really, it's not the most user-friendly interface.

講真，個界面唔系咁好用

It's actually quite user-unfriendly.

應該話系幾難用

And one of the reasons, also being part of the user-unfriendliness,

其中一個難用嘅原因

is that everything is there,

就系信息太全面了

but you have to really work through it.

讀起上來唔方便

So by me putting all this information out there,

我將呢啲信息放出來

what I'm basically telling you is I'm telling you everything.

基本上就系將我嘅所有嘢話畀你知

But in this barrage of noise

但系儘管我透露咗

that I'm putting out,

好多信息

I actually live an incredibly anonymous and private life.

我嘅生活卻保持住高度隱蔽唔受打擾

And you know very little about me actually.

外人其實對我知之甚少

And really so I've come to the conclusion

所以我得出咗結論

that the way you protect your privacy,

要保護私隱

particularly in an era where everything is cataloged

尤其系係呢個時代，乜都有記載

and everything is archived and everything is recorded,

乜都有存檔，有記錄

there's no need to delete information anymore.

根本冇必要再刪除信息

So what do you do when everything is out there?

當所有資料都曝光了，你應該點做？

Well you have to take control over it.

你應該掌握控制權

And if I give you this information directly,

主動提供資料

it's a very different type of identity

同被動任人搜集資料

than if you were to try to go through and try to get bits and pieces.

系非常唔同噶

The other thing that's also interesting that's going on here

仲有一點非常有趣

is the fact that intelligence agencies --

就系情報機構

and it doesn't matter who they are --

唔理系邉一個

they all operate in an industry

佢地嘅運作原理相同

where their commodity is information,

信息就系佢地嘅商品

or restricted access to information.

或者系有限嘅獲取信息嘅權利

And the reason their information has any value

佢地嘅信息之所以有價值

is, well, because no one else has access to it.

系因為其他人冇權獲取

And by me cutting out the middle man

我唔通過中間人

and giving it straight to you,

而系直接將信息畀你

the information that the FBI has has no value,

咁樣FBI掌握嘅信息就毫無價值了

so thus devaluing their currency.

佢地嘅信息貨幣就貶值了

And I understand that, on an individual level,

我知道係個人層面

it's purely symbolic.

呢個純粹系象徵性做法

But if 300 million people in the U.S.

但系如果係美國嘅三億人

started doing this,

都開始咁樣做

we would have to redesign the entire intelligence system

情報系統就必須要全部由頭

from the ground up.

重新設計

Because it just wouldn't work if everybody was sharing everything.

因為如果大家將信息全部攞出來分享，佢地就唔適用了

And we're getting to that.

已經有呢種趨勢

When I first started this project,

我啱啱開始呢個項目嘅時候

people were looking at me and saying,

好多人同我講

"Why would you want to tell everybody what you're doing, where you're at?

“點解你要話畀大家知你係邊度做緊乜嘢？

Why are you posting these photos?"

“點解你要發呢啲相？”

This was an age before people were Tweeting everywhere

當時社交網絡仲未興起

and 750 million people

七億五千萬人

were posting status messages

仲未開始發表狀態

or poking people.

或者係社交網打招呼

So in a way, I'm glad that I'm completely obsolete.

從某種意義來講，我好開心我完全脫節

I'm still doing this project, but it is obsolete,

我依家仲做緊呢個項目，但系已經過時了

because you're all doing it.

因為你地都做緊同樣嘅事

This is something that we all are doing on a daily basis,

呢啲系我地大家日常都做噶

whether we're aware of it or not.

唔理你有冇意識到

So we're creating our own archives and so on.

我地係度建立緊我地自己嘅檔案

And you know, some of my friends have always said,

我有啲朋友成日話

"Hey, you're just paranoid. Why are you doing this?

“你諗太多了，點解要做埋曬啲無謂嘢

Because no one's really watching.

“又冇人真系會睇

No one's really going to bother you."

“冇人會來煩你噶”

So one of the things that I do

所以我做嘅其中一樣嘢

is I actually look through my server logs very carefully.

就系仔細查看我嘅服務器日誌

Because it's about surveillance.

因為同監視有關

I'm watching who's watching me.

我要睇下邊個係度監視我

And I came up with these.

結果發現呢啲

So these are some of my sample logs.

呢啲系部分抽樣日誌

And just little bits and pieces, and you can see some of the things there.

只系好少一部分，你可以見到邊個來過

And I cleaned up the list a little bit so you can see.

我精簡出一個列表畀你地睇

So you can see that the Homeland Security likes to come by --

你可以見到國土安全局經常光臨

Department of Homeland Security.

國土安全局

You can see the National Security Agency likes to come by.

國家安全局都經常來

I actually moved very close to them. I live right down the street from them now.

其實我搬咗去佢地附近，就係佢地條街下邊

Central Intelligence Agency.

中央情報局

Executive Office of the President.

總統執行辦公室

Not really sure why they show up, but they do.

唔知點解，不過佢地真系來過

I think they kind of like to look at art.

我諗系因為佢地鐘意藝術

And I'm glad that we have patrons of the arts in these fields.

我好開心係呢啲部門有藝術愛好者

So thank you very much. I appreciate it.

多謝你地，感激不盡

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Bruno Giussani: Hasan, just curious.

布魯諾·朱撒尼：哈桑，好奇問一句

You said, "Now everything automatically goes from my iPhone,"

你話依家信息系自動從你部iPhone放上網

but actually you do take the pictures and put on information.

但系相片同埋信息都要靠你來拍攝輸入

So how many hours of the day does that take?

咁你一日要花幾多個鐘來做呢啲嘢？

HE: Almost none.

哈桑：幾乎唔使

It's no different

影相上傳

than sending a text.

同發短訊冇乜區別

It's no different than checking an email.

就好似查郵箱

It's one of those things, we got by just fine before we had to do any of those.

以前唔做呢啲嘢個陣日子照樣過

So it's just become another day.

依家只不過多咗件事

I mean, when we update a status message,

我地更新狀態嘅時候

we don't really think about how long that's going to take.

根本唔會諗要使幾長時間

So it's really just a matter of my phone clicking a couple of clicks,

其實只不過系係手機度按幾下

send, and then it's done.

發送，搞掂

And everything's automated at the other end.

網絡個邉就會自動整理了

BG: On the day you are in a place where there is no coverage, the FBI gets crazy?

布魯諾：如果你去咗一個上唔到網嘅地方，FBI咪會發癲？

HE: Well it goes to the last point that I was at.

哈桑：就好似我最後講嘅

So it holds onto the very last point.

有我最後出現嘅地點記錄就得了

So if I'm on a 12-hour flight,

譬如我要飛12個鐘

you'll see the last airport that I departed from.

我會上傳出發嘅機場信息

BG: Hasan, thank you very much. (HE: Thank you.)

布魯諾：哈桑，非常多謝你（哈桑：多謝）

(Applause)

（掌聲）