Joshua Klein: The intelligence of crows

Prevodilac: Maja Jovanovic Lektor: Mateja Nenadovic

How many of you have seen the Alfred Hitchcock film "The Birds"?

Koliko vas je gledalo "Ptice" Alfreda Hičkoka?

Da li se neko ozbiljno uplašio?

Any of you get really freaked out by that?

You might want to leave now.

Bolje onda da izađete.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So this is a vending machine for crows.

Ovo je automat za vrane.

Over the past few days, many of you have been asking,

Ovih dana me mnogi pitaju:

"How did you come to this? How did you get started doing this?"

"Kako si došao na ideju? Kako si počeo?"

It started, as with many great ideas,

Počelo je kao i druge velike ideje,

or many ideas you can't get rid of, anyway,

ili ideje koje te proganjaju

at a cocktail party.

na koktel zabavi.

About 10 years ago, I was at a cocktail party with a friend of mine.

Pre 10 godina sam bio na zabavi sa prijateljem.

Počeo je da se žali kako mu vrane

We were sitting there, and he was complaining about the crows

dolaze u dvorište i prave nered.

that were all over his yard and making a big mess.

And he was telling me we ought to eradicate these things,

Zapravo je govorio da ih treba istrebiti.

Moramo da ih ubijemo jer prave nered.

kill them, because they're making a mess.

Rekao sam da je to glupo.

I said that was stupid,

Treba ih naučiti da rade nešto korisno.

maybe we should just train them to do something useful.

Rekao je da je to nemoguće.

And he said that was impossible.

And I'm sure I'm in good company in finding that tremendously annoying,

Ovde nas ima dosta koje nervira

when someone tells you it's impossible.

kad im neko kaže da je nešto nemoguće.

Tako sam proveo poslednjih 10 godina čitajući o vranama u slobodno vreme.

So I spent the next 10 years reading about crows in my spare time.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And after 10 years of this, my wife said,

Nakon 10 godina, žena mi je rekla:

"You've got to do this thing you've been talking about,

"Moraš da uradiš

ovo o čemu si pričao i napraviš automat."

and build the vending machine."

To sam i uradio.

So I did.

Delom mi je bilo zanimljivo

But part of the reason I found this interesting is,

jer sam primetio

I started noticing that we're very aware of all the species

da smo svesni svih vrsta

that are going extinct on the planet

koje će izumreti zbog širenja ljudi,

as a result of human habitation expansion,

a niko ne obraća pažnju

and no one seems to be paying attention to all the species

na vrste koje su žive, koje preživljavaju.

that are actually living; they're surviving.

Govorim o sinatropskim vrstama,

And I'm talking specifically about synanthropic species,

koje su prilagođene baš na ljudsku ekologiju,

which have adapted specifically for human ecologies,

poput pacova, bubašvaba i vrana.

species like rats and cockroaches and crows.

And as I started looking at them, I was finding that they had hyper-adapted.

Posmatrao sam ih i video da su izuzetno prilagodljive.

Izuzetno adaptirane na život sa nama.

They'd become extremely adept at living with us.

And in return, we just tried to kill them all the time.

Zauzvrat, mi pokušavamo da ih istrebimo.

(Laughter)

And in doing so, we were breeding them for parasitism.

Radeći to, pretvaramo ih u parazite.

We were giving them all sorts of reasons to adapt new ways.

Davali smo im razne razloge da razviju nove navike.

So, for example, rats are incredibly responsive breeders.

Na primer, pacovi se brzo razmnožavaju.

And cockroaches, as anyone who's tried to get rid of them knows,

Bubašvabe su postale imune na naše otrove,

have become really immune to the poisons that we're using.

što zna svako ko je pokušao da ih se otarasi.

So I thought, let's build something that's mutually beneficial;

Pomislih da napravimo nešto od uzajamne koristi.

Nešto što će nam oboma koristiti,

something that we can both benefit from,

i razvijemo nove odnose sa ovom vrstom,

and find some way to make a new relationship with these species.

pa sam napravio automat.

So I built the vending machine.

But the story of the vending machine is a little more interesting

Priča o automatu je zanimljivija

ako znate više o vranama.

if you know more about crows.

It turns out, crows aren't just surviving with human beings;

One ne samo da preživaljavaju među ljudima,

već vrlo uspešno to rade.

they're actually thriving.

They're found everywhere on the planet except for the Arctic

Ima ih svuda osim na Severnom polu

i krajnjem jugu Južne Amerike.

and the southern tip of South America.

I u svim tim regijama se retko kad

And in all that area, they're only rarely found breeding

razmožavaju dalje od 5 km od ljudi.

more than five kilometers away from human beings.

Možda ne razmišljamo o njima,

So we may not think about them, but they're always around.

ali su uvek tu.

And not surprisingly, given the human population growth,

Sa porastom broja ljudi,

more than half of the human population is living in cities now.

više od polovine sada živi u gradovima.

And out of those, nine-tenths of the human growth population

Od ovoga, 9/10 populacije

u porastu, živi u gradovima,

is occurring in cities.

We're seeing a population boom with crows.

pa vidimo i porast broja vrana.

So bird counts are indicating

Broj ptica ukazuje da ćemo možda

that we might be seeing up to exponential growth in their numbers.

videti njihov eksponencijalni rast.

Ovo ne iznenađuje.

So that's no great surprise.

But what was really interesting to me was to find out

Meni je bilo zanimljivo da otkrijem

that the birds were adapting in a pretty unusual way.

da se ptice prilagođavaju na prilično neobičan način.

Daću vam primer.

And I'll give you an example of that.

Ovo je Beti, vrana iz Nove Kaledonije.

This is Betty. She's a New Caledonian crow.

And these crows use sticks in the wild

Oni koriste štapove u divljini

to get insects and whatnot out of pieces of wood.

da izvade insekte i slično iz drveta.

Here, she's trying to get a piece of meat out of a tube.

Ovde vadi komad mesa iz tube.

Naučnici su imali problem.

But the researchers had a problem.

They messed up and left just a stick of wire in there.

Slučajno su ostavili komad žice.

Ona nikad ranije nije mogla ovo da proba.

And she hadn't had the opportunity to do this before.

Nije joj išlo najbolje,

You see, it wasn't working very well.

So she adapted.

pa se prilagodila.

Ovo je bilo spontano. Nikad nije videla da se ovo radi.

Now, this is completely unprompted; she had never seen this done before.

No one taught her to bend this into a hook

Niko je nije naučio da napravi kuku,

or had shown her how it could happen.

kako se to radi,

ali je sama otkrila.

But she did it all on her own.

So keep in mind -- she's never seen this done.

Ne zaboravite, nikad nije videla kako se ovo radi.

(Laughter)

Right.

Ok.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Yeah. All right.

Ok.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

So that's the part where the researchers freak out.

Ovde naučnici polude.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

It turns out,

Sve više otkrivamo

we've been finding more and more that crows are really intelligent.

da su vrane veoma inteligentne.

Mozak im je proporcionalan

Their brains are in the same proportion as chimpanzee brains are.

mozgu šimpanzi.

Ima anegdota o vrstama njihove inteligencije.

There's all kinds of anecdotes

for the different kinds of intelligence they have.

Na primer, u Švedskoj,

For example, in Sweden, crows will wait for fishermen

čekaće da ribari ubace

to drop lines through holes in the ice.

udicu kroz rupu u ledu. Kad ribari odu,

And when the fishermen move off,

one dolete, izvuku udicu i pojedu ribu ili mamac.

the crows fly down, reel up the lines, and eat the fish or the bait.

To prilično nervira ribare.

It's pretty annoying for the fishermen.

On an entirely different tack,

Sa druge strane,

at University of Washington a few years ago,

na Univerzitetu u Vašingtonu pre par godina

rađen je eksperiment u kome su uhvatili vrane sa kampusa.

they were doing an experiment where they captured some crows on campus.

Studenti su izašli i uhvatili vrane,

Some students went out, netted some crows, brought them in,

uneli unutra, merili i šta sve ne,

weighed and measured them, and let them back out again.

i ponovo pustili napolje.

And they were entertained to discover that for the rest of the week,

Bilo im je zabavno

da su te vrane, do kraja nedelje,

kad bi se ti studenti pojavili,

whenever these particular students walked around campus,

graktale na njih,

these crows would caw at them and run around,

trčale okolo i zagorčavale im život.

and make their life kind of miserable.

(Laughter)

Bilo im je manje zabavno kad se ovo nastavilo i naredne nedelje,

They were significantly less entertained

when this went on for the next week.

i narednog meseca, i nakon letnjeg raspusta,

And the next month.

And after summer break.

Until they finally graduated and left campus,

sve dok nisu diplomirali i otišli,

and -- glad to get away, I'm sure --

sigurno im je bilo drago,

came back sometime later, and found the crows still remembered them.

vratili se kasnije i videli da ih vrane nisu zaboravile.

(Laughter)

Pouka je da vrane ne treba razljutiti.

So, the moral being: don't piss off crows.

Sada studenti Univerziteta u Vašingtonu

So now, students at the University of Washington

that are studying these crows, do so with a giant wig and a big mask.

koji proučavaju ove vrane

čine to uz perike i maske.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

It's fairly interesting.

Prilično interesantno.

(Laughter)

So we know these crows are really smart,

Znamo da su vrane pametne,

but the more I dug into this, the more I found

ali što ih duže istražujem, otkrivam

da mogu još značajnije da se adaptiraju.

that they actually have an even more significant adaptation.

Video: Crows have become highly skilled at making a living

Video: vrane su postale vične

životu u ovim novim urbanim sredinama.

in these new urban environments.

In this Japanese city, they have devised a way of eating a food

U ovom japanskom gradu su smislile kako

da jedu hranu koju inače ne mogu:

that normally they can't manage:

drop it among the traffic.

tako što je bace u saobraćaj.

The problem now is collecting the bits, without getting run over.

Sada treba pokupiti delove,

a da te nešto ne pregazi.

Wait for the light to stop the traffic.

Čekaj da svetlo zaustavi saobraćaj,

Then, collect your cracked nut in safety.

onda bezbedno pokupi delove razbijenog oraha.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Joshua Klein: Yeah, pretty interesting.

Jošua Klajn: da. Vrlo interesantno.

What's significant about this isn't that crows are using cars

Ovde nije značajno da vrane koriste kola da lome orahe,

to crack nuts.

to je njihov stari trik.

In fact, that's old hat for crows.

Ovo se desilo pre 10 godina

This happened about 10 years ago

in a place called Sendai City, at a driving school

u Sendai sitiju, u školi za vožnju

in the suburbs of Tokyo.

u predgrađu Tokija.

And since that time,

Od tada,

all the crows in the neighborhood are picking up this behavior.

sve vrane iz kraja su usvojile ovo ponašanje.

Sad sve vrane u radijusu od 5 km stoje na trotoaru

Now every crow within five kilometers is standing by a sidewalk,

i čekaju da pokupe ručak.

waiting to collect its lunch.

So they're learning from each other. And research bears this out.

One uče jedne od drugih. Istraživanja to dokazuju.

Roditelji uče mladunce.

Parents seem to be teaching their young.

Uče od svojih vršnjaka i neprijatelja.

They learn from their peers, they learn from their enemies.

If I have a little extra time,

Da imam više vremena, ispričao bih o neverstvu vrana

I'll tell you about a case of crow infidelity

koje ovo lepo ilustruje.

that illustrates that nicely.

One su razvile kulturnu adaptaciju.

The point being, they've developed cultural adaptation.

Kao što smo juče čuli,

And as we heard yesterday,

that's the Pandora's box that's getting human beings in trouble,

to je ona Pandorina kutija, koja ljudima pravi problem,

a vidimo je i kod njih.

and we're starting to see it with them.

Sposobni su da se brzo i fleksibilno adaptiraju

They're able to very quickly and very flexibly adapt

to new challenges and new resources in their environment,

novim izazovima i resursima u sredini,

which is really useful if you live in a city.

što je korisno kad živiš u gradu.

Znamo da ima puno vrana.

So we know that there's lots of crows.

Saznali smo da su pametne i da uče jedne od drugih.

We found out they're really smart and they can teach each other.

Kada sam ovo shvatio,

When all this became clear,

I realized the only obvious thing to do is build a vending machine.

jedina logična stvar je bila da napravimo automat.

So that's what we did.

To smo i uradili.

This is a vending machine for crows.

Ovo je automat za vrane.

And it uses Skinnerian training to shape their behavior over four stages.

Koristi Skinerovo treniranje ponašanja u 4 faze.

Vrlo je jednostavan.

It's pretty simple.

Basically, what happens is that we put this out in a field

Ukratko, postavimo automat na polje,

or someplace where there's lots of crows.

ili negde gde ima puno vrana

We put coins and peanuts all around the base of the machine.

i stavimo novčiće i kikiriki oko automata.

Vrane dođu i jedu kikiriki,

Crows eventually come by, eat the peanuts,

i naviknu se da je automat tu.

and get used to the machine being there.

Na kraju pojedu sav kikiriki.

Eventually, they eat all the peanuts.

Tad vide da ima kikirikija i na tacni za hranjenje.

Then they see peanuts here on the feeder tray,

and hop up and help themselves.

Skoče na nju i posluže se.

Then they leave, the machine spits up more coins and peanuts,

Onda odu, a automat izbaci još novčića i kikirikija,

i život je lep ako si vrana.

and life is dandy if you're a crow --

Mogu uvek doći i uzeti kikiriki.

you can come back anytime and get yourself a peanut.

So when they get really used to that, we move on to the crows coming back.

Kada se naviknu, fokusiramo se na vrane koje se vraćaju.

Sada su se navikle na zvuk automata i vraćaju se,

Now they're used to the sound of the machine;

they keep coming back and digging out peanuts

i vade kikiriki iz hrpe novčića.

from the pile of coins that's there.

Kad se obraduju ovome,

When they get really happy about this, we stymie them.

mi im otežamo stvari.

We move to the third stage, where we only give them a coin.

Prelazimo na treću fazu, gde im dajemo samo novčić.

Now, like most of us who have gotten used to a good thing,

Kao većina koja se navikne na nešto dobro,

ovo ih iritira.

this really pisses them off.

Tada počnu da rade ono što bi u prirodi kad traže nešto –

So they do what they do in nature when they're looking for something:

rasklanjaju stvari kljunom.

sweep things out of the way with their beak.

To rade i ovde, što gurne novčić niz otvor.

They do that here, and that knocks the coins down the slot.

When that happens, they get a peanut.

Kada se to desi, dobiju kikiriki.

This goes on for some time.

To rade neko vreme.

Vrane nauče da jedino treba

The crows learn that all they have to do is show up,

da sačekaju da novčić ispadne, stave ga u otvor, i dobiju kikiriki.

wait for the coin to come out, put it in the slot,

then get their peanut.

Kada se naviknu na ovo,

When they're good and comfortable with that,

pređemo na poslednju fazu, gde se pojave i ništa se ne desi.

we move to the final stage, where they show up and nothing happens.

This is where we see the difference between crows and other animals.

Ovde vidimo razliku između vrana i drugih životinja.

Veverice bi se došle, tražile kikiriki i otišle.

Squirrels, for example, would show up, look for the peanut, go away.

Vratile se, potražile kikiriki i otišle.

Come back, look for the peanut, go away.

They do this maybe half a dozen times before they get bored,

Ovo rade nekih 6 puta dok im ne dosadi,

and then they go off and play in traffic.

onda odu da se igraju u saobraćaju.

Crows, on the other hand, show up and they try and figure it out.

Vrane, s druge strane, dođu i pokušaju da shvate.

They know this machine has been messing with them

Znaju da ih automat zeza

through three different stages of behavior.

tokom tri faze ponašanja.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

They figure there must be more to it.

Shvate da mora imati logiku.

So they poke at it and peck at it.

Guraju ga, kljucaju i slično.

And eventually some crow gets a bright idea:

Onda jedna dobije ideju.

"Hey, there's lots of coins lying around from the first stage,

"Hej, tamo ima puno novčića iz prve faze

koji su na zemlji". Skoči dole, pokupi ga i ubaci u otvor.

hops down, picks it up, drops it in the slot, and we're off to the races.

I tako počinje.

That crow enjoys a temporary monopoly on peanuts,

Ta vrana uživa u privremenom monopolu

dok ostale ne shvate kako se to radi, a onda sve krenu.

until his friends figure out how to do it, and then there we go.

So, what's significant about this to me

Ono što je meni važno

isn't that we can train crows to pick up peanuts.

nije da možemo istrenirati vrane da pokupe kikiriki.

Mind you, there's 216 million dollars' worth of change lost every year,

Iako se svake godine izgubi 216 miliona dolara u novčićima,

but I'm not sure I can depend on that ROI from crows.

mada sumnjam da vrane mogu vratiti taj novac.

(Laughter)

Instead, I think we should look a little bit larger.

Mislim da treba da gledamo širu sliku,

I think crows can be trained to do other things.

da mogu naučiti i druge stvari.

For example, why not train them to pick up garbage after stadium events?

Zašto ih ne naučimo da kupe smeće nakon događaja na stadionima,

Or find expensive components from discarded electronics?

da nađu skupe komponente u bačenoj elektronici,

da tragaju za ljudima?

Or maybe do search and rescue?

Za mene je glavno

The main point of all this for me is,

we can find mutually beneficial systems for these species.

da možemo naći sistem obostrane koristi.

Možemo naći interakciju

We can find ways to interact with these other species

koja ne obuhvata njihovo istrebljenje

that doesn't involve exterminating them,

već pronalaženje korisne ravnoteže.

but involves finding an equilibrium with them that's a useful balance.

Thanks very much.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)