Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved | Esther Perel | TED

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

Why do we cheat?

Zašto varamo?

And why do happy people cheat?

I zašto srećni ljudi varaju?

And when we say "infidelity," what exactly do we mean?

I kada kažemo "neverstvo", na šta tačno mislimo?

Is it a hookup, a love story, paid sex, a chat room,

Da li je to šema, ljubavna priča, plaćeni seks, soba za čet,

a massage with a happy ending?

masaža sa srećnim krajem?

Why do we think that men cheat out of boredom and fear of intimacy,

Zašto mislimo da muškarci varaju iz dosade i straha od prisnosti,

but women cheat out of loneliness and hunger for intimacy?

a da žene varaju zbog usamljenosti i žudnje za prisnošću?

And is an affair always the end of a relationship?

I da li je afera uvek kraj jedne veze?

For the past 10 years, I have traveled the globe

Poslednjih 10 godina sam putovala svetom

and worked extensively with hundreds of couples

i mnogo sam radila sa stotinama parova

who have been shattered by infidelity.

koje je preljuba razorila.

There is one simple act of transgression

Postoji jedan prost prestup

that can rob a couple of their relationship,

koji može da liši par njihove veze,

their happiness and their very identity: an affair.

njihove sreće i njihovog ličnog identiteta: afera.

And yet, this extremely common act is so poorly understood.

Pa ipak, ovaj izuzetno uobičajen čin je tako loše shvaćen.

So this talk is for anyone who has ever loved.

Dakle, ovaj govor je za sve koji su ikada voleli.

Adultery has existed since marriage was invented,

Preljuba postoji otkad je brak izmišljen,

and so, too, the taboo against it.

kao i tabu u vezi s njom.

In fact, infidelity has a tenacity that marriage can only envy,

Zapravo, preljuba ima istrajnost na kojoj joj brak samo može da zavidi,

so much so, that this is the only commandment

u tolikoj meri, da je to jedina zapovest

that is repeated twice in the Bible:

koja je dva puta ponovljena u Bibliji:

once for doing it, and once just for thinking about it.

jednom za čin preljube, drugi put za puko razmišljanje o njoj.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So how do we reconcile what is universally forbidden,

Pa kako da pomirimo nešto što je univerzalno zabranjeno,

yet universally practiced?

a ipak se univerzalno upražnjava?

Now, throughout history, men practically had a license to cheat

Sad, kroz istoriju, muškarci su praktično imali dozvolu da varaju,

with little consequence,

s malim posledicama

and supported by a host of biological and evolutionary theories

i imali su podršku od zagovornika bioloških i evolutivnih teorija

that justified their need to roam,

koje su opravdavale njihovu potrebu za lutanjem,

so the double standard is as old as adultery itself.

pa su dvostruki standardi stari koliko i sama preljuba.

But who knows what's really going on under the sheets there, right?

Ali ko zna šta se stvarno dešava ispod jorgana, zar ne?

Because when it comes to sex,

Jer kada se radi o seksu,

the pressure for men is to boast and to exaggerate,

na muškarce se vrši pritisak da se hvale i preteruju,

but the pressure for women is to hide, minimize and deny,

ali na žene se vrši pritisak da prikrivaju, umanjuju i poriču,

which isn't surprising when you consider that there are still nine countries

što nije čudno kada shvatite da još uvek postoji devet država

where women can be killed for straying.

u kojima žena može da bude ubijena zbog bluda.

Now, monogamy used to be one person for life.

Sad, monogamija je nekada značila biti s jednom osobom do kraja života.

Today, monogamy is one person at a time.

Danas monogamija znači biti sa jednom po jednom osobom.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

I mean, many of you probably have said,

Mislim, mnogi od vas su verovatno rekli:

"I am monogamous in all my relationships."

"Monogaman sam u svim svojim vezama."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

We used to marry,

Nekada smo se venčavali

and had sex for the first time.

i prvi put imali seks.

But now we marry,

Ali sada se venčavamo

and we stop having sex with others.

i prestajemo da imamo seks s drugima.

The fact is that monogamy had nothing to do with love.

Činjenica je da monogamija nije imala nikakve veze s ljubavlju.

Men relied on women's fidelity

Muškarci su se oslanjali na vernost žene

in order to know whose children these are,

kako bi znali čija su deca

and who gets the cows when I die.

i ko će da nasledi krave kada umru.

Now, everyone wants to know

Sad, svi žele da znaju

what percentage of people cheat.

koliki procenat ljudi vara.

I've been asked that question since I arrived at this conference.

Postavljaju mi to pitanje otkad sam stigla na ovu konferenciju.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

It applies to you.

To se odnosi na vas.

But the definition of infidelity keeps on expanding:

Ali definicija prevare nastavlja da se širi:

sexting, watching porn, staying secretly active on dating apps.

seksualne poruke, pornografija, korišćenje aplikacija za traženje partnera.

So because there is no universally agreed-upon definition

Pa kako nema univerzalno prihvaćene definicije

of what even constitutes an infidelity,

za to šta se uopšte smatra neverstvom,

estimates vary widely, from 26 percent to 75 percent.

procene izuzetno variraju, od 26% do 75%.

But on top of it, we are walking contradictions.

Povrh svega toga, mi smo hodajuće protivrečnosti.

So 95 percent of us will say that it is terribly wrong

Pa će 95 procenata nas reći da bi bilo užasno pogrešno

for our partner to lie about having an affair,

kad bi partner od nas skrivao aferu,

but just about the same amount of us will say

ali otprilike isti procenat nas će reći

that that's exactly what we would do if we were having one.

da bismo upravo to uradili kad bismo imali aferu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Now, I like this definition of an affair --

Sviđa mi se sledeća definicija afere -

it brings together the three key elements:

spaja tri ključna elementa:

a secretive relationship, which is the core structure of an affair;

vezu u tajnosti, koja je u srži afere,

an emotional connection to one degree or another;

emotivnu povezanost, u većoj ili manjoj meri;

and a sexual alchemy.

i seksualnu alhemiju.

And alchemy is the key word here,

A alhemija je ključna reč ovde,

because the erotic frisson is such that the kiss that you only imagine giving,

jer je erotski naboj takav da poljubac koji samo zamišljate da dajete

can be as powerful and as enchanting

može da bude podjednako snažan i očaravajući

as hours of actual lovemaking.

kao i sati stvarnog vođenja ljubavi.

As Marcel Proust said,

Kako je Marsel Prust rekao:

it's our imagination that is responsible for love, not the other person.

naša mašta je odgovorna za ljubav, ne druga osoba.

So it's never been easier to cheat,

Nikada nije bilo lakše varati,

and it's never been more difficult to keep a secret.

i nikada nije bilo teže čuvati tajnu.

And never has infidelity exacted such a psychological toll.

I nikada pre preljuba nije zahtevala tako visoku psihološku dažbinu.

When marriage was an economic enterprise,

Kada je brak bio ekonomsko preduzeće,

infidelity threatened our economic security.

preljuba je pretila našoj ekonomskoj sigurnosti.

But now that marriage is a romantic arrangement,

Ali sada kada je brak romantični dogovor,

infidelity threatens our emotional security.

preljuba preti našoj emotivnoj sigurnosti.

Ironically, we used to turn to adultery --

Ironično, nekada smo se okretali preljubi -

that was the space where we sought pure love.

to je bio prostor na kom smo tražili čistu ljubav.

But now that we seek love in marriage,

Ali sada kada tražimo ljubav u braku,

adultery destroys it.

preljuba ga razara.

Now, there are three ways that I think infidelity hurts differently today.

Mislim da postoje tri načina na koja nas preljuba danas drugačije povređuje.

We have a romantic ideal in which we turn to one person

Imamo romantični ideal zbog koga se okrećemo jednoj osobi

to fulfill an endless list of needs:

da ispuni beskrajnu listu potreba:

to be my greatest lover, my best friend,

da bude moj najbolji ljubavnik, moj najbolji prijatelj,

the best parent, my trusted confidant,

najbolji roditelj, moj pouzdani oslonac,

my emotional companion, my intellectual equal.

moj emotivni drug, moj intelektualni par.

And I am it: I'm chosen, I'm unique,

I ja sam ta: ja sam izabrana, jedinstvena sam,

I'm indispensable, I'm irreplaceable,

neophodna sam, nezamenjiva sam,

I'm the one.

ja sam ta.

And infidelity tells me I'm not.

A preljuba mi kaže da nisam.

It is the ultimate betrayal.

To je krajnji oblik izdaje.

Infidelity shatters the grand ambition of love.

Preljuba razara veličanstvenu ambiciju ljubavi.

But if throughout history, infidelity has always been painful,

Ali ako je kroz istoriju, preljuba oduvek bila bolna,

today it is often traumatic,

danas je ona često traumatična

because it threatens our sense of self.

jer preti našem shvatanju sebe.

So my patient Fernando, he's plagued.

Moj pacijent Fernando, koji je očajan,

He goes on: "I thought I knew my life.

raspreda: "Mislio sam da poznajem svoj život.

I thought I knew who you were, who we were as a couple, who I was.

Mislio sam da te poznajem, da znam ko smo mi kao par, to ko sam ja.

Now, I question everything."

Sad sve dovodim u pitanje."

Infidelity -- a violation of trust, a crisis of identity.

Preljuba - povreda poverenja, kriza identiteta.

"Can I ever trust you again?" he asks.

"Hoću li ikada moći da ti verujem ponovo", pita.

"Can I ever trust anyone again?"

"Hoću li moći ikome ponovo da verujem?"

And this is also what my patient Heather is telling me,

A to mi i moja pacijentkinja Heder govori,

when she's talking to me about her story with Nick.

kada mi priča svoju priču s Nikom.

Married, two kids.

Udata, ima dvoje dece.

Nick just left on a business trip,

Nik je upravo otišao na poslovni put,

and Heather is playing on his iPad with the boys,

a Heder se sa dečacima igra na njegovom iPad-u,

when she sees a message appear on the screen:

kada vidi poruku koja se pojavljuje na ekranu:

"Can't wait to see you."

"Jedva čekam da te vidim."

Strange, she thinks, we just saw each other.

Čudno, misli, upravo smo se videli.

And then another message:

A potom stiže druga poruka:

"Can't wait to hold you in my arms."

"Jedva čekam da te zagrlim."

And Heather realizes

I Heder shvata

these are not for her.

da ove poruke nisu za nju.

She also tells me that her father had affairs,

Takođe mi kaže da je njen otac imao afere,

but her mother, she found one little receipt in the pocket,

ali njena majka je pronašla malenu priznanicu u džepu

and a little bit of lipstick on the collar.

i malo karmina na kragni.

Heather, she goes digging,

Heder kreće u potragu

and she finds hundreds of messages,

i pronalazi na stotine poruka

and photos exchanged and desires expressed.

i razmenjenih fotografija i izraženih žudnji.

The vivid details of Nick's two-year affair

Živopisni detalji o Nikovoj dvogodišnjoj aferi

unfold in front of her in real time,

pred očima joj se razvijaju u realnom vremenu.

And it made me think:

Zbog toga sam pomislila:

Affairs in the digital age are death by a thousand cuts.

afere u digitalnom dobu su smrti od hiljadu uboda.

But then we have another paradox that we're dealing with these days.

No tu imamo još jedan paradoks s kojim se borimo ovih dana.

Because of this romantic ideal,

Zbog ovog romantičnog ideala,

we are relying on our partner's fidelity with a unique fervor.

oslanjamo se na vernost svog partnera s jedinstvenim zanosom.

But we also have never been more inclined to stray,

Ali takođe nikada nismo bili ovako skloni šaranju,

and not because we have new desires today,

ne zato što sada imamo nove žudnje,

but because we live in an era

već zato što živimo u dobu

where we feel that we are entitled to pursue our desires,

u kome osećamo da imamo pravo da jurimo za svojim žudnjama,

because this is the culture where I deserve to be happy.

jer ovo je kultura u kojoj zaslužujemo da budemo srećni.

And if we used to divorce because we were unhappy,

I ako smo se nekada razvodili jer nismo bili srećni,

today we divorce because we could be happier.

danas se razvodimo jer bismo mogli da budemo srećniji.

And if divorce carried all the shame,

I ako je uz razvod išao sav sram,

today, choosing to stay when you can leave

danas odluka da ostanete, ako možete da odete

is the new shame.

je novi sram.

So Heather, she can't talk to her friends

Pa Heder ne može da razgovara s prijateljima

because she's afraid that they will judge her for still loving Nick,

jer bi je mogli osuđivati zbog toga što još uvek voli Nika

and everywhere she turns, she gets the same advice:

i kome god da se obrati, dobija isti savet:

Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb.

napusti ga. Reši se jada.

And if the situation were reversed, Nick would be in the same situation.

A da je situacija obrnuta, Nik bi bio u istoj situaciji.

Staying is the new shame.

Ostajanje je novi sram.

So if we can divorce,

Pa, ako možemo da se razvedemo,

why do we still have affairs?

zašto i dalje imamo afere?

Now, the typical assumption is that if someone cheats,

E sad, tipična pretpostavka je da ako neko vara,

either there's something wrong in your relationship or wrong with you.

ili nešto nije u redu s vašom vezom ili nešto nije u redu s vama.

But millions of people can't all be pathological.

Ali ne mogu svi ti milioni ljudi da budu patološki slučajevi.

The logic goes like this: If you have everything you need at home,

Logika je ovakava: ako imaš sve što ti je potrebno kod kuće,

then there is no need to go looking elsewhere,

onda nema potrebe da tražiš dalje,

assuming that there is such a thing as a perfect marriage

pod pretpostavkom da postoji takvo nešto kao savršen brak

that will inoculate us against wanderlust.

što bi nas zaštitilo od želje za lutanjem.

But what if passion has a finite shelf life?

Ali šta ako strast ima ograničen rok trajanja?

What if there are things that even a good relationship

Šta ako postoje stvari koje čak ni dobra veza

can never provide?

nije u stanju da pruži?

If even happy people cheat,

Ako čak i srećni ljudi varaju,

what is it about?

o čemu se tu radi?

The vast majority of people that I actually work with

Ogromna većina ljudi sa kojima zapravo radim

are not at all chronic philanderers.

nisu uopšte hronični švaleri.

They are often people who are deeply monogamous in their beliefs,

To su često ljudi koji su veoma monogamni u svojim ubeđenjima,

and at least for their partner.

bar za svog partnera.

But they find themselves in a conflict

Ali zateknu se u konfliktu

between their values and their behavior.

između svojih vrednosti i svog ponašanja.

They often are people who have actually been faithful for decades,

To su često ljudi koji su zapravo decenijama bili verni,

but one day they cross a line

ali jednoga dana su prešli crtu,

that they never thought they would cross,

koju nikada nisu mislil preći,

and at the risk of losing everything.

čak i po ceni gubitka svega.

But for a glimmer of what?

Ali za iskru čega?

Affairs are an act of betrayal,

Afere su činovi izdaje,

and they are also an expression of longing and loss.

ali su takođe i izrazi žudnje i gubitka.

At the heart of an affair, you will often find

U srži afere ćete često naći

a longing and a yearning for an emotional connection,

žudnju i čežnju za emotivnom povezanošću,

for novelty, for freedom, for autonomy, for sexual intensity,

za novinom, za slobodom, za autonomijom, za seksualnim nabojem,

a wish to recapture lost parts of ourselves

želju da se ponovo zgrabe izgubljeni delovi nas samih

or an attempt to bring back vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.

ili pokušaj da se vrati životnost kada se suočimo s gubitkom i tragedijom.

I'm thinking about another patient of mine, Priya,

Sećam se još jednog mog pacijenta, Prije,

who is blissfully married,

koja je srećno udata,

loves her husband,

voli svog supruga

and would never want to hurt the man.

i nikada ga ne bi povredila.

But she also tells me

Ali mi takođe kaže

that she's always done what was expected of her:

da je oduvek radila ono što se od nje očekuje:

good girl, good wife, good mother,

bila je dobra devojka, dobra supruga, dobra majka,

taking care of her immigrant parents.

brinula je za svoje roditelje imigrante.

Priya, she fell for the arborist who removed the tree from her yard

Prija je pala na arboristu koji je uklanjao drvo iz njenog dvorišta

after Hurricane Sandy.

nakon uragana Sendi.

And with his truck and his tattoos, he's quite the opposite of her.

I s njegovim kamionom i tetovažama, prilično je različit od nje.

But at 47, Priya's affair is about the adolescence that she never had.

Ali za 47-ogodišnju Priju ova afera je adolescencija koju nikada nije imala.

And her story highlights for me that when we seek the gaze of another,

I njena priča mi daje do znanja da kada tražimo tuđi zaljubljen pogled,

it isn't always our partner that we are turning away from,

ne okrećemo uvek leđa našem partneru,

but the person that we have ourselves become.

već osobi koja smo postali.

And it isn't so much that we're looking for another person,

I ne radi se toliko o traženju druge osobe,

as much as we are looking for another self.

koliko se radi o traganju za drugim nama.

Now, all over the world,

E sad, širom sveta,

there is one word that people who have affairs always tell me.

postoji jedna reč koju mi ljudi koji imaju afere uvek kažu.

They feel alive.

Osećaju se živima.

And they often will tell me stories of recent losses --

I često mi ispričaju priče o skorašnjim gubicima -

of a parent who died,

o roditelju koji je umro,

and a friend that went too soon,

prijatelju koji je prerano preminuo

and bad news at the doctor.

i o lošim vestima od doktora.

Death and mortality often live in the shadow of an affair,

Smrt i smrtnost često žive u senci afere

because they raise these questions.

jer povlače sledeća pitanja:

Is this it? Is there more?

je li to sve? Postoji li nešto više?

Am I going on for another 25 years like this?

Hoću li i narednih 25 godina provesti ovako?

Will I ever feel that thing again?

Hoću li ikada više osetiti ono nešto?

And it has led me to think that perhaps these questions

I to me je navelo na razmišljanje, da možda ova pitanja

are the ones that propel people to cross the line,

pokreću ljude da pređu crtu,

and that some affairs are an attempt to beat back deadness,

i da su neke afere pokušaji da se odagna smrtnost,

in an antidote to death.

protivotrovi za smrt.

And contrary to what you may think,

I nasuprot vašem mišljenju,

affairs are way less about sex, and a lot more about desire:

kod afera nije toliko važan seks, koliko je važna žudnja:

desire for attention, desire to feel special,

žudnja za pažnjom, žudnja da se osećamo posebnim,

desire to feel important.

žudnja da se osećamo bitnima.

And the very structure of an affair,

A sama struktura afere,

the fact that you can never have your lover,

činjenica da ljubavnik nikada neće biti vaš,

keeps you wanting.

održava vašu čežnju.

That in itself is a desire machine,

To je samo po sebi mašinerija žudnje

because the incompleteness, the ambiguity,

jer nedorečenost, dvosmislenost,

keeps you wanting that which you can't have.

vas nagone da čeznete za onim što ne možete da imate.

Now some of you probably think

Neki od vas verovatno misle

that affairs don't happen in open relationships,

da se afere ne dešavaju u vezama otvorenog tipa,

but they do.

ali se dešavaju.

First of all, the conversation about monogamy is not the same

Pre svega, razgovor o monogamiji nije isto što i razgovor o neverstvu.

as the conversation about infidelity.

But the fact is that it seems that even when we have

Ali činjenica je da se čini da čak i kada smo slobodni

the freedom to have other sexual partners,

da imamo druge seksualne partnere,

we still seem to be lured by the power of the forbidden,

nas i dalje privlači snaga zabranjenog,

that if we do that which we are not supposed to do,

da kada uradimo ono što ne bi trebalo,

then we feel like we are really doing what we want to.

tada se osećamo kao da zaista radimo ono što želimo.

And I've also told quite a few of my patients

I ja sam takođe rekla popriličnom broju mojih pacijenata

that if they could bring into their relationships

da kada bi mogli da unesu u svoju vezu

one tenth of the boldness, the imagination and the verve

jednu desetinu odvažnosti, maštovitosti i elana

that they put into their affairs,

koje ulažu u svoje afere,

they probably would never need to see me.

verovatno nikad ne bi morali da dolaze kod mene.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So how do we heal from an affair?

Dakle, kako se lečimo od afere?

Desire runs deep.

Žudnja ostavlja dubok trag.

Betrayal runs deep.

Izdaja ostavlja dubok trag.

But it can be healed.

Ali ima leka.

And some affairs are death knells

A neke afere su pogrebna zvona

for relationships that were already dying on the vine.

za vezu koja je već bila na aparatima za preživljavanje.

But others will jolt us into new possibilities.

Ali druge će nas otrgnuti u nove mogućnosti.

The fact is, the majority of couples

Činjenica je da većina parova

who have experienced affairs stay together.

koji su iskusili aferu, ostaju zajedno.

But some of them will merely survive,

Ali neki od njih će jedva preživeti,

and others will actually be able to turn a crisis into an opportunity.

dok će drugi biti u stanju da pretvore krizu u priliku.

They'll be able to turn this into a generative experience.

Biće u stanju da sve to pretvore u plodotvorno iskustvo.

And I'm actually thinking even more so for the deceived partner,

I zapravo ovde više mislim na prevarenog partnera,

who will often say,

koji će često da kaže:

"You think I didn't want more?

"Misliš da i ja nisam želela više?

But I'm not the one who did it."

Ali ja to nisam uradila."

But now that the affair is exposed,

Ali sada kada je afera razotkrivena,

they, too, get to claim more,

i oni su u prilici da zahtevaju više

and they no longer have to uphold the status quo

i više ne moraju da održavaju status kvo

that may not have been working for them that well, either.

koji nije naročito odgovarao ni njima.

I've noticed that a lot of couples,

Primetila sam da većina parova,

in the immediate aftermath of an affair,

odmah nakon saznanja o aferi,

because of this new disorder that may actually lead to a new order,

zbog svog tog nereda koji bi mogao da vodi do novog poretka,

will have depths of conversations with honesty and openness

imaju duboke razgovore, s iskrenošću i otvorenošću

that they haven't had in decades.

kakve nisu imali decenijama.

And, partners who were sexually indifferent

I partneri koji su bili nezaintersovani za seks,

find themselves suddenly so lustfully voracious,

iznenada otkriju kod sebe sladostrasnu proždrljivost

they don't know where it's coming from.

za koju ne znaju odakle im.

Something about the fear of loss will rekindle desire,

Nešto u strahu od gubitka ponovo budi žudnju

and make way for an entirely new kind of truth.

i krči put za potpuno novi tip iskrenosti.

So when an affair is exposed,

Dakle, kada je afera razotkrivena,

what are some of the specific things that couples can do?

koji su to koraci koje parovi mogu da preduzmu?

We know from trauma that healing begins

Znamo da kod traume izlečenje počinje

when the perpetrator acknowledges their wrongdoing.

kada počinilac prizna svoje nedelo.

So for the partner who had the affair,

Zato, partner koji je imao aferu,

for Nick,

Nik,

one thing is to end the affair,

prvenstveno, mora da okonča aferu,

but the other is the essential, important act of expressing

ali drugo je krucijalno, važan je čin izražavanja

guilt and remorse for hurting his wife.

krivice i kajanja zbog toga što je povredio suprugu.

But the truth is

Ali istina je

that I have noticed that quite a lot of people who have affairs

da sam primetila da popriličan broj ljudi koji imaju afere

may feel terribly guilty for hurting their partner,

možda osećaju užasnu krivicu zbog toga što su povredili partnera,

but they don't feel guilty for the experience of the affair itself.

ali ne osećaju krivicu zbog iskustva same afere.

And that distinction is important.

A ta razlika je veoma bitna.

And Nick, he needs to hold vigil for the relationship.

Nik mora da bdi nad vezom.

He needs to become, for a while, the protector of the boundaries.

Mora, na kratko, da postane zaštitnik ograničenja.

It's his responsibility to bring it up,

Na njemu je da vaskrsne vezu,

because if he thinks about it,

jer kad razmisli o tome,

he can relieve Heather from the obsession,

može da oslobodi Heder od opsesije

and from having to make sure that the affair isn't forgotten,

i kako se ne bi desilo da afera bude zaboravljena,

and that in itself begins to restore trust.

a to samo po sebi vraća poverenje.

But for Heather,

Ali za Heder,

or deceived partners,

to jest za prevarene partnere,

it is essential to do things that bring back a sense of self-worth,

krucijalno je da se bave onim što im vraća osećanje sopstvene vrednosti,

to surround oneself with love and with friends and activities

da se okruže ljubavlju, prijateljima i aktivnostima

that give back joy and meaning and identity.

koje im vraćaju užitak i smisao i identitet.

But even more important,

Ali što je još značajnije,

is to curb the curiosity to mine for the sordid details --

da obuzdavaju znatiželju, da ne kopaju po prljavom vešu -

Where were you? Where did you do it?

Gde ste bili? Gde ste to radili?

How often? Is she better than me in bed? --

Koliko često? Da li je bolja od mene u krevetu? -

questions that only inflict more pain,

pitanja koja samo mogu još više da vas povrede

and keep you awake at night.

i da vas drže budnim po noći.

And instead, switch to what I call the investigative questions,

Umesto toga, pređite na ono što ja zovem istraživačkim pitanjima,

the ones that mine the meaning and the motives --

ona pitanja koja tragaju za značenjem i motivima -

What did this affair mean for you?

šta ti je ova afera značila?

What were you able to express or experience there

Šta si bio u stanju da izraziš ili iskusiš tamo

that you could no longer do with me?

što više nisi mogao sa mnom?

What was it like for you when you came home?

Kako ti je bilo kad bi se vratio kući?

What is it about us that you value?

Šta ceniš kod nas?

Are you pleased this is over?

Jesi li zadovoljan jer se sve završilo?

Every affair will redefine a relationship,

Svaka afera će nanovo definisati vezu

and every couple will determine

i svaki par će da odluči

what the legacy of the affair will be.

kakvo će da bude zaveštanje afere.

But affairs are here to stay, and they're not going away.

Ali afere su tu i ne idu nikuda.

And the dilemmas of love and desire,

A dileme u vezi s ljubavlju i žudnjom,

they don't yield just simple answers of black and white and good and bad,

ne daju isključivo proste odgovore da je sve crno i belo, dobro i loše,

and victim and perpetrator.

da imamo žrtvu i prestupnika.

Betrayal in a relationship comes in many forms.

Postoje razni vidovi izdaje u vezi.

There are many ways that we betray our partner:

Postoji mnogo načina da se izda partner:

with contempt, with neglect,

prezrenjem, zanemarivanjem,

with indifference, with violence.

ravnodušnošću, nasiljem.

Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner.

Seksualna izdaja je samo jedan od načina da se povredi partner.

In other words, the victim of an affair

Drugim rečima, žrtva afere

is not always the victim of the marriage.

nije uvek žrtva u braku.

Now, you've listened to me,

E sad, saslušali ste me,

and I know what you're thinking:

i znam šta mislite:

She has a French accent, she must be pro-affair.

ona ima francuski akcenat, mora da je zagovornica afera.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So, you're wrong.

Dakle, grešite.

I am not French.

Nisam Francuskinja.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

And I'm not pro-affair.

I nisam zagovornica afera.

But because I think that good can come out of an affair,

Ali pošto smatram da dobro može da proizađe iz afere,

I have often been asked this very strange question:

često me pitaju ovo veoma čudno pitanje:

Would I ever recommend it?

da li bih je ikada preporučila?

Now, I would no more recommend you have an affair

E sad, ne bih vam preporučila aferu

than I would recommend you have cancer,

ništa više nego što bih vam preporučila da imate rak.

and yet we know that people who have been ill

Pa ipak znamo da ljudi koji su bili bolesni

often talk about how their illness has yielded them a new perspective.

često govore o tome kako im je njihova bolest podarila novu perspektivu.

The main question that I've been asked since I arrived at this conference

Glavno pitanje koje mi postavljaju, otkad sam stigla na konferenciju,

when I said I would talk about infidelity is, for or against?

pošto sam rekla da ću da govorim o neverstvu je: da li sam za ili protiv?

I said, "Yes."

I ja odgovaram: "Jesam."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I look at affairs from a dual perspective:

Posmatram afere iz dva ugla:

hurt and betrayal on one side,

na jednoj strani su bol i izdaja,

growth and self-discovery on the other --

a na drugoj su rast i samootkrovenje -

what it did to you, and what it meant for me.

kako se to odrazilo na tebe i šta je meni značilo?

And so when a couple comes to me in the aftermath of an affair

Pa kad mi dođe par, iznoseći posledice

razotkrivene afere,

that has been revealed,

I will often tell them this:

često im kažem sledeće:

Today in the West,

danas na Zapadu,

most of us are going to have two or three relationships

većina nas će da ima dve ili tri veze

or marriages,

ili braka,

and some of us are going to do it with the same person.

a nekima će se to desiti sa istom osobom.

Your first marriage is over.

Vaš prvi brak je gotov.

Would you like to create a second one together?

Da li biste želeli da stvorite novi zajedno?

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)