Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved | Esther Perel | TED
15,601,901 views ・ 2015-05-21
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譯者: Jin Hu
審譯者: Coco Shen
00:12
Why do we cheat?
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為什麼我們會出軌?
00:16
And why do happy people cheat?
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為何快樂的人會外遇?
00:20
And when we say "infidelity,"
what exactly do we mean?
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談到「不貞」時,我們真正指的是什麼?
00:26
Is it a hookup, a love story,
paid sex, a chat room,
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是一次邂逅,一場戀愛,
性交易,聊天室聊天,
00:32
a massage with a happy ending?
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又或者是按摩店的終極服務?
00:36
Why do we think that men cheat
out of boredom and fear of intimacy,
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為何我們覺得男人出軌的原因
是無聊和恐懼親密,
00:41
but women cheat out of loneliness
and hunger for intimacy?
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而女人卻是寂寞難耐和急需親密?
00:47
And is an affair always
the end of a relationship?
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出軌必須是一段關係的終結者嗎?
00:53
For the past 10 years,
I have traveled the globe
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過去十年,我在各處旅行
00:56
and worked extensively
with hundreds of couples
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與各地數百對的夫妻一同合作。
00:59
who have been shattered by infidelity.
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婚姻的不貞使他們的生活破碎。
01:02
There is one simple act of transgression
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出軌是一個簡單的犯罪行為,
01:06
that can rob a couple
of their relationship,
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它會破壞兩人的關係。,
01:11
their happiness and their
very identity: an affair.
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幸福和自我認同。
01:15
And yet, this extremely common
act is so poorly understood.
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然而,我們對這個普遍的行為卻所知甚少
01:22
So this talk is for anyone
who has ever loved.
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所以這次演講是給所有愛過的人。
01:29
Adultery has existed
since marriage was invented,
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出軌的歷史和婚姻的歷史一樣長,
01:33
and so, too, the taboo against it.
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苛責通姦的戒律也是。
01:37
In fact, infidelity has a tenacity
that marriage can only envy,
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事實上,婚外情的韌性連婚姻都望塵莫及,
01:42
so much so, that this is
the only commandment
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比如說,它甚至列為聖經的十誡之一
01:46
that is repeated twice in the Bible:
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在聖經中被重複提及兩次:
01:50
once for doing it, and once
just for thinking about it.
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一次是別做,一次是連想也不准想。
01:54
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:56
So how do we reconcile
what is universally forbidden,
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所以我們要如何面對這個普遍被禁止
02:00
yet universally practiced?
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但人人都在做的行為呢?
02:05
Now, throughout history, men
practically had a license to cheat
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從古自今,男人們幾乎都有出軌許可證
02:10
with little consequence,
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出軌不用付多大的代價
02:12
and supported by a host
of biological and evolutionary theories
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許多生物學和進化論
02:16
that justified their need to roam,
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合理化外遇行為
02:19
so the double standard
is as old as adultery itself.
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雙重標準如同通姦一樣存在已久
02:24
But who knows what's really going on
under the sheets there, right?
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但床單下真的發生什麼,有人知道嗎?
02:29
Because when it comes to sex,
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當我們談到性愛,
02:31
the pressure for men
is to boast and to exaggerate,
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男性就應該要表現的自信或誇大
02:35
but the pressure for women
is to hide, minimize and deny,
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而女性隱藏,把自己顯得渺小和拒絕
02:41
which isn't surprising when you consider
that there are still nine countries
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因此當你得知世界還有九個國家
02:45
where women can be killed for straying.
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女人會遭到殺害或流放時,並不會太過驚訝
02:49
Now, monogamy used to be
one person for life.
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一夫一妻制以前指一生一次
02:54
Today, monogamy is one person at a time.
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現在,是一次一人
02:58
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:00
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
03:04
I mean, many of you probably have said,
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你們應該說過,
03:06
"I am monogamous in all my relationships."
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「我在所有關係裡都是一對一」
03:09
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:12
We used to marry,
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過去,我們結婚
03:14
and had sex for the first time.
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並在婚後發生第一次性行為
03:16
But now we marry,
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現在,我們結婚
03:18
and we stop having sex with others.
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然後停止和其他人發生性行為
03:21
The fact is that monogamy
had nothing to do with love.
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原因是一夫一妻制跟愛情無關
03:26
Men relied on women's fidelity
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男人依靠女人的忠貞
03:28
in order to know whose children these are,
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來確保孩子是他的,
03:31
and who gets the cows when I die.
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確認死後誰會繼承家產。
03:36
Now, everyone wants to know
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現在,大家都想知道,
03:38
what percentage of people cheat.
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外遇的比例有多少。
03:40
I've been asked that question
since I arrived at this conference.
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來到這個會議時,許多人都這樣問我
03:43
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:46
It applies to you.
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包括你。
03:48
But the definition of infidelity
keeps on expanding:
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但婚外情的定義一直在擴大,
03:52
sexting, watching porn, staying
secretly active on dating apps.
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諸如性愛簡訊,看色情影片,
偷偷使用聯誼網站等。
03:58
So because there is no
universally agreed-upon definition
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我們還沒有一個大家都同意的定義
04:02
of what even constitutes an infidelity,
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來說明構成不貞的要素
04:05
estimates vary widely,
from 26 percent to 75 percent.
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估計26%到75%的人
04:12
But on top of it, we are
walking contradictions.
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除此之外,我們常常自我矛盾。
04:16
So 95 percent of us will say
that it is terribly wrong
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所以95%的人會說
04:19
for our partner to lie
about having an affair,
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另一半因外遇說謊是很糟糕的行為
04:22
but just about the same
amount of us will say
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但一樣多的人表示
04:25
that that's exactly what we
would do if we were having one.
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當我們外遇時也會這樣做。
04:28
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:31
Now, I like this definition
of an affair --
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我喜歡這樣定義外遇,
04:35
it brings together the three key elements:
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它是三個關鍵要素構成的
04:39
a secretive relationship,
which is the core structure of an affair;
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外遇的主要架構是一段秘密的關係
04:45
an emotional connection
to one degree or another;
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和他人某種程度上的情緒連結
04:49
and a sexual alchemy.
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最後是性愛的化學作用
04:52
And alchemy is the key word here,
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化學作用是這裡的關鍵字
04:55
because the erotic frisson is such that
the kiss that you only imagine giving,
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一個充滿性慾和顫慄的吻
05:02
can be as powerful and as enchanting
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可以很有力量,且令人著迷,
05:05
as hours of actual lovemaking.
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如同實際做愛幾小時
05:09
As Marcel Proust said,
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普魯斯特說過,
05:11
it's our imagination that is responsible
for love, not the other person.
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要對愛情負責的不是另一半,是想像力
05:17
So it's never been easier to cheat,
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所以沒有什麼比外遇更簡單
05:21
and it's never been more
difficult to keep a secret.
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沒什麼比保住一個秘密更難
05:25
And never has infidelity exacted
such a psychological toll.
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沒什麼比不真更讓人人財兩失
05:31
When marriage was an economic enterprise,
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當我們把婚姻比喻作企業
05:35
infidelity threatened
our economic security.
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不貞動搖整個經濟架構
05:39
But now that marriage
is a romantic arrangement,
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當婚姻由浪漫所構成時
05:41
infidelity threatens
our emotional security.
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不貞讓我們情緒不穩
05:45
Ironically, we used to turn to adultery --
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諷刺地,過去人們認為“通姦”
05:50
that was the space where
we sought pure love.
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是在窄縫中尋求真愛
05:53
But now that we seek love in marriage,
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現在我們在婚姻中尋覓愛情
05:55
adultery destroys it.
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卻說通姦毀了婚姻
05:58
Now, there are three ways that I think
infidelity hurts differently today.
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不貞在現今,用三種方式傷害人們
06:05
We have a romantic ideal
in which we turn to one person
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我們有個完美主義或浪漫情節,對另一個人
06:11
to fulfill an endless list of needs:
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盡可能滿足對方所需
06:14
to be my greatest lover, my best friend,
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對愛人,摯友,
06:18
the best parent, my trusted confidant,
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父母,好友
06:21
my emotional companion,
my intellectual equal.
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心靈伴侶,人生目標相同的人
06:25
And I am it: I'm chosen, I'm unique,
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我就是我,是被選中且獨特的
06:29
I'm indispensable, I'm irreplaceable,
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我是不可或缺也無法被替代的
06:33
I'm the one.
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我是獨一無二的
06:35
And infidelity tells me I'm not.
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但外遇告訴我一切並非如此
06:39
It is the ultimate betrayal.
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這是最終的背叛
06:41
Infidelity shatters
the grand ambition of love.
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不貞粉碎我們對愛情懷有的偉大夢想
06:46
But if throughout history,
infidelity has always been painful,
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但回顧歷史,過去不貞使人痛心欲絕
06:51
today it is often traumatic,
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今日早成的傷害只是外部的。
06:53
because it threatens our sense of self.
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因為他威脅我們自身,
06:57
So my patient Fernando, he's plagued.
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我的客戶費南多,他完全崩潰了。
06:59
He goes on: "I thought I knew my life.
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他說:我以為了解自己的人生
07:02
I thought I knew who you were,
who we were as a couple, who I was.
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我以為了解曾經的你,我們的婚姻和我
07:06
Now, I question everything."
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現在,我對一切都有疑問
07:09
Infidelity -- a violation of trust,
a crisis of identity.
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不貞,使信任崩解,
也瓦解人對自我的認知
07:14
"Can I ever trust you again?" he asks.
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我可以再信任你嗎?他問
07:17
"Can I ever trust anyone again?"
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我能再相信任何人嗎?
07:20
And this is also what my patient
Heather is telling me,
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我的另一位客戶,希瑟說到
07:23
when she's talking to me
about her story with Nick.
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當她在跟我講述她和尼克之間的故事時
07:26
Married, two kids.
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他們結婚,育有兩個小孩
07:27
Nick just left on a business trip,
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尼克剛離家出差
07:30
and Heather is playing
on his iPad with the boys,
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希瑟和孩子們在玩他的平板,
07:34
when she sees a message
appear on the screen:
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她看見一條訊息出現在螢幕上:
07:37
"Can't wait to see you."
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我等不及要見你了。
07:39
Strange, she thinks,
we just saw each other.
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心裡感到莫名,
我們不是才剛分開嗎?她想
07:42
And then another message:
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接著另一封訊息寫道:
07:44
"Can't wait to hold you in my arms."
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等不及將你緊緊地抱在懷裡。
07:47
And Heather realizes
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希瑟頓時知道
07:50
these are not for her.
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這些訊息不是給她的
07:52
She also tells me
that her father had affairs,
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她告訴我,她的父親也有外遇
07:55
but her mother, she found
one little receipt in the pocket,
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她的母親在他的口袋中發現一張小收據
07:59
and a little bit of lipstick
on the collar.
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領口上沾染一點口紅。
08:03
Heather, she goes digging,
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希瑟開始抽絲剝繭
08:06
and she finds hundreds of messages,
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她發現他們之間互傳幾百封的簡訊
08:09
and photos exchanged
and desires expressed.
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互相交換照片,對彼此訴說情慾
08:13
The vivid details
of Nick's two-year affair
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尼克外遇兩年的證據和細節擺在眼前
08:16
unfold in front of her in real time,
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在現實中赤裸地呈現出來
08:19
And it made me think:
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不禁使我想到
08:21
Affairs in the digital age
are death by a thousand cuts.
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在數位時代,外遇就像凌遲
08:27
But then we have another paradox
that we're dealing with these days.
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但我們現今卻存在另一個矛盾
08:31
Because of this romantic ideal,
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浪漫的理想,
08:33
we are relying on our partner's
fidelity with a unique fervor.
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我們依賴父母之間對彼此忠誠
08:38
But we also have never
been more inclined to stray,
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但也時常偏離正道
08:42
and not because we have new desires today,
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並非現今的慾望比以前更多
08:45
but because we live in an era
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而是生在這個世代
08:47
where we feel that we are
entitled to pursue our desires,
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我們被灌輸要追求自己所渴望的一切
08:50
because this is the culture
where I deserve to be happy.
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在這個文化薰陶下,我理應過得快樂
08:55
And if we used to divorce
because we were unhappy,
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如果過去我們因為不開心而離婚
08:59
today we divorce
because we could be happier.
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今日我們離婚為追求更快樂的生活
09:03
And if divorce carried all the shame,
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過去,離婚是可恥的
09:06
today, choosing to stay when you can leave
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現在,當你可以離婚是卻選擇留下
09:10
is the new shame.
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同樣也被認為可恥。
09:12
So Heather, she can't talk to her friends
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所以希瑟無法向她的好友訴說這一切
09:15
because she's afraid that they
will judge her for still loving Nick,
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她怕朋友會認為她仍愛著尼克
09:18
and everywhere she turns,
she gets the same advice:
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無論求助何方,得到的都是一樣的建議
09:21
Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb.
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離開尼克,把這爛男人丟在一旁。
09:25
And if the situation were reversed,
Nick would be in the same situation.
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現在情況顛倒過來,尼克也會面臨同樣的事
09:31
Staying is the new shame.
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選擇留下也會視為可恥
09:35
So if we can divorce,
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如果我們可以選擇離婚
09:38
why do we still have affairs?
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為何外遇仍存在?
09:41
Now, the typical assumption
is that if someone cheats,
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一個典型的假設是,如果有人外遇
09:46
either there's something wrong
in your relationship or wrong with you.
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不論問題在於你或你們的關係
09:51
But millions of people
can't all be pathological.
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大部份的人是正常的
09:56
The logic goes like this: If you
have everything you need at home,
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邏輯是這樣的,家裡有你需要的一切
10:00
then there is no need
to go looking elsewhere,
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那就沒有必要去別處找
10:03
assuming that there is such
a thing as a perfect marriage
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假設有一個完美的婚姻
10:07
that will inoculate us against wanderlust.
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它讓我們的心繫著家裡
10:11
But what if passion
has a finite shelf life?
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但是假設激情有保存期限?
10:15
What if there are things
that even a good relationship
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假設一段再好的關係
10:19
can never provide?
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也有它欠缺的東西?
10:22
If even happy people cheat,
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如果就連開心的人都會外遇
10:25
what is it about?
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又是為什麼呢?
10:28
The vast majority of people
that I actually work with
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大多數和我一同工作的人
10:31
are not at all chronic philanderers.
167
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都不是習慣於調戲他人的人
10:34
They are often people who are
deeply monogamous in their beliefs,
168
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他們絕大部分推崇一夫一妻制
10:38
and at least for their partner.
169
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至少對他們的另一半是這樣。
10:40
But they find themselves in a conflict
170
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2636
但是它們發現身處矛盾之中
10:43
between their values and their behavior.
171
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因為價值觀和行為南轅北轍
10:47
They often are people who have
actually been faithful for decades,
172
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十幾年來,他們常常對另一半忠誠
10:51
but one day they cross a line
173
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2639
有天,他們越過那條線
10:54
that they never thought they would cross,
174
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他們從未想過自己會越界
10:57
and at the risk of losing everything.
175
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2747
且冒著會失去一切的風險
11:00
But for a glimmer of what?
176
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1905
但是為的是什麼呢?
11:03
Affairs are an act of betrayal,
177
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2640
外遇是背叛的行為
11:06
and they are also an expression
of longing and loss.
178
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也是表達渴望和失去的方式
11:10
At the heart of an affair,
you will often find
179
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3918
你會發現婚外情的核心
11:14
a longing and a yearning
for an emotional connection,
180
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4261
是對憧憬和嚮往的一種情緒表達
11:18
for novelty, for freedom,
for autonomy, for sexual intensity,
181
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5770
尋求新奇、自由、自主和性刺激
11:24
a wish to recapture
lost parts of ourselves
182
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3667
希望重現自己失去的那一塊
11:28
or an attempt to bring back
vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.
183
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5314
或企圖在失落和悲慘的生活中找回活力
11:34
I'm thinking about
another patient of mine, Priya,
184
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2917
這使我想到另一位客戶,普里亞
11:37
who is blissfully married,
185
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2616
她有個幸福美滿的婚姻
11:40
loves her husband,
186
700382
1465
且深愛她的丈夫
11:41
and would never want to hurt the man.
187
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2383
永遠都不曾想過傷害這個男人
11:44
But she also tells me
188
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2118
但她同時告訴我
11:46
that she's always done
what was expected of her:
189
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3174
她總是按著大家對她的期許生活
11:50
good girl, good wife, good mother,
190
710005
3680
當個好女孩、好妻子,好媽媽
11:53
taking care of her immigrant parents.
191
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2992
照顧她移民的雙親
11:56
Priya, she fell for the arborist
who removed the tree from her yard
192
716677
4512
桑迪颶風過境後,普里亞愛上從她院子
12:01
after Hurricane Sandy.
193
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1461
移走樹木的樹藝家
12:03
And with his truck and his tattoos,
he's quite the opposite of her.
194
723524
4563
他駕駛著卡車,帶有紋身,和她恰恰相反
12:09
But at 47, Priya's affair is about
the adolescence that she never had.
195
729547
5222
但47歲,普里亞的婚外情就這樣稍縱即逝
12:15
And her story highlights for me
that when we seek the gaze of another,
196
735753
5277
她的故事提醒我,我們常尋求他人的注意
12:21
it isn't always our partner
that we are turning away from,
197
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4718
那人不是我們常避開頭的另一伴
12:25
but the person that
we have ourselves become.
198
745748
2837
而是我們心中希望成為的那個人
12:29
And it isn't so much that we're
looking for another person,
199
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3546
我們注視著另一個人
12:33
as much as we are
looking for another self.
200
753274
3542
就像在她身上找另一個自己的影子
12:39
Now, all over the world,
201
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1557
現在,世界各地
12:40
there is one word that people
who have affairs always tell me.
202
760602
3856
有婚外情的人都會這樣跟我說
12:45
They feel alive.
203
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1881
他們覺得重生了
12:48
And they often will tell me
stories of recent losses --
204
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4240
他們也常常告訴我最近生活上失落的事
12:52
of a parent who died,
205
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1855
父親或母親去世了
12:54
and a friend that went too soon,
206
774141
2200
朋友太快離開人間
12:56
and bad news at the doctor.
207
776341
1800
或從醫生口中捎來,不幸的消息
12:59
Death and mortality often live
in the shadow of an affair,
208
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4656
死亡和失敗多寄宿在婚外情的影子裡
13:04
because they raise these questions.
209
784138
2470
它們讓人產生這些疑問
13:06
Is this it? Is there more?
210
786632
2904
就這樣?沒有更多了嗎?
13:09
Am I going on for another
25 years like this?
211
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3056
未來的25年也是這樣過嗎?
13:13
Will I ever feel that thing again?
212
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2492
我會再次有那樣的感受嗎?
13:18
And it has led me to think
that perhaps these questions
213
798377
4411
這使我想到,假使這些問題
13:22
are the ones that propel
people to cross the line,
214
802788
3159
驅使人們去跨越界線
13:25
and that some affairs are
an attempt to beat back deadness,
215
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3992
有些人外遇是試圖要擺脫無精打采的生活
13:29
in an antidote to death.
216
809939
1796
把它當作死亡的解毒劑
13:33
And contrary to what you may think,
217
813999
2868
相反地,你可能會想
13:36
affairs are way less about sex,
and a lot more about desire:
218
816867
5036
婚外情比起性愛,更關乎渴望
13:41
desire for attention,
desire to feel special,
219
821903
3489
想要獲得注意,想到感到獨一無二
13:45
desire to feel important.
220
825392
1916
想要感到自己是重要的
13:48
And the very structure of an affair,
221
828237
3010
婚外情的結構本身
13:51
the fact that you can
never have your lover,
222
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2252
事實是我們會對另一半
13:53
keeps you wanting.
223
833503
1435
感到厭煩
13:54
That in itself is a desire machine,
224
834938
3021
婚外情是個製造渴望的機器
13:57
because the incompleteness, the ambiguity,
225
837959
2788
不完全性和模糊的距離
14:00
keeps you wanting
that which you can't have.
226
840747
2775
讓人想得到自己不該擁有的
14:05
Now some of you probably think
227
845641
1536
現在一些人大概想說
14:07
that affairs don't happen
in open relationships,
228
847177
3630
婚外情在開放式的關係中不會存在
14:10
but they do.
229
850807
1191
但是他還是會發生
14:12
First of all, the conversation
about monogamy is not the same
230
852432
3130
第一,關於一夫一妻制的對話是不同的
14:15
as the conversation about infidelity.
231
855562
2181
更遑論婚外情
14:18
But the fact is that it seems
that even when we have
232
858468
3491
但事實是,就算我們有了
14:21
the freedom to have other sexual partners,
233
861959
2673
可以有其他性伴侶的自由
14:24
we still seem to be lured
by the power of the forbidden,
234
864632
4088
我們仍會著迷於觸犯禁忌的感覺
14:28
that if we do that which
we are not supposed to do,
235
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3487
當我們做了不該做的事
14:32
then we feel like we are really
doing what we want to.
236
872207
2799
我們會覺得,在做我們真正想做的事
14:37
And I've also told
quite a few of my patients
237
877331
3604
我跟很多病人說
14:40
that if they could bring
into their relationships
238
880935
4601
如果在一段關係中
14:45
one tenth of the boldness,
the imagination and the verve
239
885536
3631
他們可以帶入十分之一的勇氣、想像力和活力
14:49
that they put into their affairs,
240
889167
1712
把外遇時的十分之一放到婚姻
14:50
they probably would never need to see me.
241
890879
2245
就可能永遠不會來上們求診了
14:53
(Laughter)
242
893148
2000
(笑聲)
14:56
So how do we heal from an affair?
243
896362
2285
所以我們要如何從婚外情中康復?
15:00
Desire runs deep.
244
900428
1919
慾望已根深蒂固
15:02
Betrayal runs deep.
245
902371
1871
背叛也是
15:05
But it can be healed.
246
905266
1555
但這是可以治癒的
15:07
And some affairs are death knells
247
907999
2921
有時婚外情就像死亡的鐘聲
15:10
for relationships that were
already dying on the vine.
248
910944
2738
折磨那些接近凋零的關係
15:14
But others will jolt us
into new possibilities.
249
914753
3016
但那鐘聲也會敲醒一些人探索新的可能
15:17
The fact is, the majority of couples
250
917953
1983
事實是,大部分歷經過
15:19
who have experienced
affairs stay together.
251
919936
2214
婚外情的夫妻仍在一起
15:22
But some of them will merely survive,
252
922766
2633
有些則難以回復到從前
15:25
and others will actually be able
to turn a crisis into an opportunity.
253
925399
4704
其他甚至將危機化為轉機
15:30
They'll be able to turn this
into a generative experience.
254
930817
3643
他們能夠將這個做為一輩子的經驗
15:34
And I'm actually thinking even
more so for the deceived partner,
255
934484
3714
我其實還得更多,所以對於被欺騙的那方
15:38
who will often say,
256
938222
1336
他們常說
15:39
"You think I didn't want more?
257
939558
1807
你以為我就不想要更多嗎?
15:41
But I'm not the one who did it."
258
941365
1842
但我沒有外遇
15:43
But now that the affair is exposed,
259
943968
2142
現在,婚外情揭露後
15:46
they, too, get to claim more,
260
946110
2134
他們開始要求更多
15:48
and they no longer have
to uphold the status quo
261
948244
2642
所以他們不必再維持現狀
15:50
that may not have been working
for them that well, either.
262
950886
2914
反而過得更好
15:56
I've noticed that a lot of couples,
263
956221
2889
我注意到很多對夫妻
15:59
in the immediate aftermath of an affair,
264
959110
2141
在婚外情結束後的一段時間
16:01
because of this new disorder
that may actually lead to a new order,
265
961251
4336
生活上的失序反而讓他們重新找回生活步調
16:05
will have depths of conversations
with honesty and openness
266
965587
3582
開始進行有深度、誠實、開放的對話
16:09
that they haven't had in decades.
267
969169
1655
彌補過去幾十年的空白
16:11
And, partners who were
sexually indifferent
268
971743
2937
而且,性冷淡的夫妻們
16:14
find themselves suddenly
so lustfully voracious,
269
974680
2599
發現他們突然性急地渴望彼此
16:17
they don't know where it's coming from.
270
977279
2535
連他們都不知這感覺哪裡來的
16:20
Something about the fear
of loss will rekindle desire,
271
980568
3953
害怕失去會使人重新燃起興趣
16:24
and make way for an entirely
new kind of truth.
272
984521
3319
並用全然不同的角度看待一切
16:30
So when an affair is exposed,
273
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2871
所以當婚外情暴露了
16:33
what are some of the specific things
that couples can do?
274
993004
3161
夫妻間可以做什麼具體的是呢?
16:38
We know from trauma that healing begins
275
998133
4071
心理創傷開始癒合時
16:42
when the perpetrator
acknowledges their wrongdoing.
276
1002204
3992
是在外遇的那方主動先認錯
16:47
So for the partner who had the affair,
277
1007339
3711
所以外遇的那方,
16:51
for Nick,
278
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1532
像是尼克
16:52
one thing is to end the affair,
279
1012582
1805
他該做的事是結束這段婚外情
16:54
but the other is the essential,
important act of expressing
280
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4722
另一件必不可少且重要的是
16:59
guilt and remorse for hurting his wife.
281
1019109
3206
表達出傷害妻子讓他感到內疚又自責
17:02
But the truth is
282
1022889
1375
但真相是
17:04
that I have noticed that quite a lot
of people who have affairs
283
1024264
3101
我注意到大部分有婚外情的人
17:07
may feel terribly guilty
for hurting their partner,
284
1027365
3098
對於傷害另一伴感到極度的內疚
17:10
but they don't feel guilty
for the experience of the affair itself.
285
1030463
3213
但是他們並不覺得婚外情本身是有罪的
17:14
And that distinction is important.
286
1034135
1841
這個區別很重要
17:17
And Nick, he needs to hold
vigil for the relationship.
287
1037230
3626
尼克在這個關係中需要保持警戒
17:21
He needs to become, for a while,
the protector of the boundaries.
288
1041253
3073
他需要暫時做這個分界的保護者
17:24
It's his responsibility to bring it up,
289
1044326
2623
這是他的責任
17:26
because if he thinks about it,
290
1046949
1980
因為只要他這樣做
17:28
he can relieve Heather from the obsession,
291
1048929
3010
就會讓希瑟從痛庫苦之中解脫
17:31
and from having to make sure
that the affair isn't forgotten,
292
1051939
3210
同時也確認這段婚外情時不被遺忘的
17:35
and that in itself
begins to restore trust.
293
1055149
3183
也讓自己慢慢找回和希瑟間的信任
17:39
But for Heather,
294
1059570
1859
但對於希瑟
17:41
or deceived partners,
295
1061429
1745
和被欺騙的那一方
17:43
it is essential to do things
that bring back a sense of self-worth,
296
1063174
5338
做一些能讓自己找回自我價值的事
17:48
to surround oneself with love
and with friends and activities
297
1068512
3733
讓愛、好友和各種活動填滿自己的生活
17:52
that give back joy
and meaning and identity.
298
1072249
3403
這讓人重拾快樂,和自身的價值
17:55
But even more important,
299
1075936
1933
但更重要的是
17:57
is to curb the curiosity
to mine for the sordid details --
300
1077869
4903
要抑制住想要挖角過去黑暗面的好奇心
18:02
Where were you? Where did you do it?
301
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2197
你當時在哪裡?你那時做了什麼?
18:04
How often? Is she better
than me in bed? --
302
1084969
3022
很常見面嗎?她的上床技術比我更好?
18:07
questions that only inflict more pain,
303
1087991
2484
這些問題只會讓彼此更受傷
18:10
and keep you awake at night.
304
1090475
1484
並讓自己失眠
18:12
And instead, switch to what I call
the investigative questions,
305
1092674
4676
而是,切換到我所說的調查性問題
18:17
the ones that mine
the meaning and the motives --
306
1097350
3300
針對背後的意義和動機-
18:20
What did this affair mean for you?
307
1100654
2473
外遇對你意味著什麼?
18:23
What were you able to express
or experience there
308
1103127
2772
你在那的表達和經歷些什麼
18:25
that you could no longer do with me?
309
1105899
2255
和我在一起無法做的事?
18:28
What was it like for you
when you came home?
310
1108154
3032
你回到家時有什麼感覺?
18:31
What is it about us that you value?
311
1111186
3399
我們之間你最珍惜什麼?
18:34
Are you pleased this is over?
312
1114585
2152
這件是告一段落你開心嗎?
18:38
Every affair will redefine a relationship,
313
1118404
4321
每段婚外情都會讓人重新檢視婚姻
18:42
and every couple will determine
314
1122725
2882
每對夫妻都會決定
18:45
what the legacy of the affair will be.
315
1125607
2535
婚外情後留下的是什麼
18:49
But affairs are here to stay,
and they're not going away.
316
1129649
3762
婚外情會留下,它不會被淡忘。
18:54
And the dilemmas of love and desire,
317
1134316
2643
愛情和慾望之間的兩難
18:56
they don't yield just simple answers
of black and white and good and bad,
318
1136959
5970
夫妻間不會用簡單的答案,黑白是非來定義
19:02
and victim and perpetrator.
319
1142929
1974
害傷的和做錯事的人
19:06
Betrayal in a relationship
comes in many forms.
320
1146221
4075
一段關係中,背叛有很多形式
19:10
There are many ways
that we betray our partner:
321
1150296
2354
我們用很多方法背叛另一伴
19:12
with contempt, with neglect,
322
1152650
2169
蔑視和忽視
19:14
with indifference, with violence.
323
1154819
2473
冷漠和暴力
19:17
Sexual betrayal is only
one way to hurt a partner.
324
1157999
3438
用性背叛是傷害另一伴的方式之一
19:21
In other words, the victim of an affair
325
1161437
2604
也就是說,婚外情中的受傷者
19:24
is not always the victim of the marriage.
326
1164041
2942
並不是都是在婚姻中受傷的
19:29
Now, you've listened to me,
327
1169840
2208
現在,你聽我說
19:32
and I know what you're thinking:
328
1172048
2375
我知道你在想什麼
19:34
She has a French accent,
she must be pro-affair.
329
1174423
3774
她有法式口音,她一定贊成婚外情
19:38
(Laughter)
330
1178697
3302
(笑聲)
19:43
So, you're wrong.
331
1183761
1504
所以,你錯了
19:45
I am not French.
332
1185619
1555
我不是法國人
19:47
(Laughter)
333
1187666
2453
(笑聲)
19:50
(Applause)
334
1190143
2880
(掌聲)
19:53
And I'm not pro-affair.
335
1193602
1667
我也沒有外遇過
19:56
But because I think that good
can come out of an affair,
336
1196674
4384
但因為認為婚外情過後會帶來好處
20:01
I have often been asked
this very strange question:
337
1201058
3331
我常被問到這個十分奇怪的問題:
20:04
Would I ever recommend it?
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你支持婚外情嗎?
20:07
Now, I would no more
recommend you have an affair
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現在,我不會再建議你去外遇
20:10
than I would recommend you have cancer,
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我建議你得癌症
20:13
and yet we know that people
who have been ill
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到目前為止,我們知道病入膏肓的人
20:15
often talk about how their illness
has yielded them a new perspective.
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常說身患重疾使他們對人生有新的領悟
20:20
The main question that I've been asked
since I arrived at this conference
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抵達這個會議後我主要被問的問題是
20:23
when I said I would talk
about infidelity is, for or against?
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當我說我要講述將於婚外情,贊成還是反對
20:28
I said, "Yes."
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我說「是」
20:30
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
20:33
I look at affairs from a dual perspective:
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我用兩個面向看婚外情
20:37
hurt and betrayal on one side,
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受傷和背叛在一塊
20:41
growth and self-discovery on the other --
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成長和自我探索在另一邊
20:44
what it did to you,
and what it meant for me.
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婚外其對你做過什麼,意義又是什麼?
20:48
And so when a couple comes to me
in the aftermath of an affair
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所以當一對夫妻在婚外情
20:53
that has been revealed,
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被揭露過後來找我
20:55
I will often tell them this:
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我都這樣告訴他們
20:57
Today in the West,
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現今在西方國家
20:59
most of us are going to have
two or three relationships
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大部分的我們都有過兩到三段感情
21:04
or marriages,
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或婚姻
21:06
and some of us are going
to do it with the same person.
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有時候我們和同一個人經歷過這些
21:10
Your first marriage is over.
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你們第一個婚姻已經是過去式了
21:13
Would you like to create
a second one together?
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你們願意一起展開第二個嶄新的婚姻嗎?
21:17
Thank you.
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謝謝
21:18
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
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