Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved | Esther Perel | TED

15,934,975 views ・ 2015-05-21

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譯者: Jin Hu 審譯者: Coco Shen
00:12
Why do we cheat?
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為什麼我們會出軌?
00:16
And why do happy people cheat?
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為何快樂的人會外遇?
00:20
And when we say "infidelity," what exactly do we mean?
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談到「不貞」時,我們真正指的是什麼?
00:26
Is it a hookup, a love story, paid sex, a chat room,
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是一次邂逅,一場戀愛, 性交易,聊天室聊天,
00:32
a massage with a happy ending?
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又或者是按摩店的終極服務?
00:36
Why do we think that men cheat out of boredom and fear of intimacy,
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為何我們覺得男人出軌的原因 是無聊和恐懼親密,
00:41
but women cheat out of loneliness and hunger for intimacy?
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而女人卻是寂寞難耐和急需親密?
00:47
And is an affair always the end of a relationship?
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出軌必須是一段關係的終結者嗎?
00:53
For the past 10 years, I have traveled the globe
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過去十年,我在各處旅行
00:56
and worked extensively with hundreds of couples
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與各地數百對的夫妻一同合作。
00:59
who have been shattered by infidelity.
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婚姻的不貞使他們的生活破碎。
01:02
There is one simple act of transgression
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出軌是一個簡單的犯罪行為,
01:06
that can rob a couple of their relationship,
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它會破壞兩人的關係。,
01:11
their happiness and their very identity: an affair.
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幸福和自我認同。
01:15
And yet, this extremely common act is so poorly understood.
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然而,我們對這個普遍的行為卻所知甚少
01:22
So this talk is for anyone who has ever loved.
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所以這次演講是給所有愛過的人。
01:29
Adultery has existed since marriage was invented,
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出軌的歷史和婚姻的歷史一樣長,
01:33
and so, too, the taboo against it.
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苛責通姦的戒律也是。
01:37
In fact, infidelity has a tenacity that marriage can only envy,
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事實上,婚外情的韌性連婚姻都望塵莫及,
01:42
so much so, that this is the only commandment
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比如說,它甚至列為聖經的十誡之一
01:46
that is repeated twice in the Bible:
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在聖經中被重複提及兩次:
01:50
once for doing it, and once just for thinking about it.
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一次是別做,一次是連想也不准想。
01:54
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:56
So how do we reconcile what is universally forbidden,
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所以我們要如何面對這個普遍被禁止
02:00
yet universally practiced?
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但人人都在做的行為呢?
02:05
Now, throughout history, men practically had a license to cheat
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從古自今,男人們幾乎都有出軌許可證
02:10
with little consequence,
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出軌不用付多大的代價
02:12
and supported by a host of biological and evolutionary theories
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許多生物學和進化論
02:16
that justified their need to roam,
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合理化外遇行為
02:19
so the double standard is as old as adultery itself.
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雙重標準如同通姦一樣存在已久
02:24
But who knows what's really going on under the sheets there, right?
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但床單下真的發生什麼,有人知道嗎?
02:29
Because when it comes to sex,
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當我們談到性愛,
02:31
the pressure for men is to boast and to exaggerate,
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男性就應該要表現的自信或誇大
02:35
but the pressure for women is to hide, minimize and deny,
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而女性隱藏,把自己顯得渺小和拒絕
02:41
which isn't surprising when you consider that there are still nine countries
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因此當你得知世界還有九個國家
02:45
where women can be killed for straying.
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女人會遭到殺害或流放時,並不會太過驚訝
02:49
Now, monogamy used to be one person for life.
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一夫一妻制以前指一生一次
02:54
Today, monogamy is one person at a time.
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現在,是一次一人
02:58
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:00
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
03:04
I mean, many of you probably have said,
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你們應該說過,
03:06
"I am monogamous in all my relationships."
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「我在所有關係裡都是一對一」
03:09
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:12
We used to marry,
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過去,我們結婚
03:14
and had sex for the first time.
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並在婚後發生第一次性行為
03:16
But now we marry,
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現在,我們結婚
03:18
and we stop having sex with others.
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然後停止和其他人發生性行為
03:21
The fact is that monogamy had nothing to do with love.
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原因是一夫一妻制跟愛情無關
03:26
Men relied on women's fidelity
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男人依靠女人的忠貞
03:28
in order to know whose children these are,
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來確保孩子是他的,
03:31
and who gets the cows when I die.
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確認死後誰會繼承家產。
03:36
Now, everyone wants to know
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現在,大家都想知道,
03:38
what percentage of people cheat.
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外遇的比例有多少。
03:40
I've been asked that question since I arrived at this conference.
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來到這個會議時,許多人都這樣問我
03:43
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:46
It applies to you.
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包括你。
03:48
But the definition of infidelity keeps on expanding:
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但婚外情的定義一直在擴大,
03:52
sexting, watching porn, staying secretly active on dating apps.
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諸如性愛簡訊,看色情影片, 偷偷使用聯誼網站等。
03:58
So because there is no universally agreed-upon definition
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我們還沒有一個大家都同意的定義
04:02
of what even constitutes an infidelity,
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來說明構成不貞的要素
04:05
estimates vary widely, from 26 percent to 75 percent.
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估計26%到75%的人
04:12
But on top of it, we are walking contradictions.
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除此之外,我們常常自我矛盾。
04:16
So 95 percent of us will say that it is terribly wrong
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所以95%的人會說
04:19
for our partner to lie about having an affair,
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另一半因外遇說謊是很糟糕的行為
04:22
but just about the same amount of us will say
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但一樣多的人表示
04:25
that that's exactly what we would do if we were having one.
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當我們外遇時也會這樣做。
04:28
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:31
Now, I like this definition of an affair --
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我喜歡這樣定義外遇,
04:35
it brings together the three key elements:
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它是三個關鍵要素構成的
04:39
a secretive relationship, which is the core structure of an affair;
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外遇的主要架構是一段秘密的關係
04:45
an emotional connection to one degree or another;
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和他人某種程度上的情緒連結
04:49
and a sexual alchemy.
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最後是性愛的化學作用
04:52
And alchemy is the key word here,
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化學作用是這裡的關鍵字
04:55
because the erotic frisson is such that the kiss that you only imagine giving,
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一個充滿性慾和顫慄的吻
05:02
can be as powerful and as enchanting
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可以很有力量,且令人著迷,
05:05
as hours of actual lovemaking.
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如同實際做愛幾小時
05:09
As Marcel Proust said,
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普魯斯特說過,
05:11
it's our imagination that is responsible for love, not the other person.
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要對愛情負責的不是另一半,是想像力
05:17
So it's never been easier to cheat,
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所以沒有什麼比外遇更簡單
05:21
and it's never been more difficult to keep a secret.
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沒什麼比保住一個秘密更難
05:25
And never has infidelity exacted such a psychological toll.
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沒什麼比不真更讓人人財兩失
05:31
When marriage was an economic enterprise,
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當我們把婚姻比喻作企業
05:35
infidelity threatened our economic security.
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不貞動搖整個經濟架構
05:39
But now that marriage is a romantic arrangement,
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當婚姻由浪漫所構成時
05:41
infidelity threatens our emotional security.
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不貞讓我們情緒不穩
05:45
Ironically, we used to turn to adultery --
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諷刺地,過去人們認為“通姦”
05:50
that was the space where we sought pure love.
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是在窄縫中尋求真愛
05:53
But now that we seek love in marriage,
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現在我們在婚姻中尋覓愛情
05:55
adultery destroys it.
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卻說通姦毀了婚姻
05:58
Now, there are three ways that I think infidelity hurts differently today.
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不貞在現今,用三種方式傷害人們
06:05
We have a romantic ideal in which we turn to one person
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我們有個完美主義或浪漫情節,對另一個人
06:11
to fulfill an endless list of needs:
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盡可能滿足對方所需
06:14
to be my greatest lover, my best friend,
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對愛人,摯友,
06:18
the best parent, my trusted confidant,
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父母,好友
06:21
my emotional companion, my intellectual equal.
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心靈伴侶,人生目標相同的人
06:25
And I am it: I'm chosen, I'm unique,
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我就是我,是被選中且獨特的
06:29
I'm indispensable, I'm irreplaceable,
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我是不可或缺也無法被替代的
06:33
I'm the one.
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我是獨一無二的
06:35
And infidelity tells me I'm not.
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但外遇告訴我一切並非如此
06:39
It is the ultimate betrayal.
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這是最終的背叛
06:41
Infidelity shatters the grand ambition of love.
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不貞粉碎我們對愛情懷有的偉大夢想
06:46
But if throughout history, infidelity has always been painful,
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但回顧歷史,過去不貞使人痛心欲絕
06:51
today it is often traumatic,
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今日早成的傷害只是外部的。
06:53
because it threatens our sense of self.
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因為他威脅我們自身,
06:57
So my patient Fernando, he's plagued.
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我的客戶費南多,他完全崩潰了。
06:59
He goes on: "I thought I knew my life.
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他說:我以為了解自己的人生
07:02
I thought I knew who you were, who we were as a couple, who I was.
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我以為了解曾經的你,我們的婚姻和我
07:06
Now, I question everything."
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現在,我對一切都有疑問
07:09
Infidelity -- a violation of trust, a crisis of identity.
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不貞,使信任崩解, 也瓦解人對自我的認知
07:14
"Can I ever trust you again?" he asks.
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我可以再信任你嗎?他問
07:17
"Can I ever trust anyone again?"
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我能再相信任何人嗎?
07:20
And this is also what my patient Heather is telling me,
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我的另一位客戶,希瑟說到
07:23
when she's talking to me about her story with Nick.
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當她在跟我講述她和尼克之間的故事時
07:26
Married, two kids.
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他們結婚,育有兩個小孩
07:27
Nick just left on a business trip,
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尼克剛離家出差
07:30
and Heather is playing on his iPad with the boys,
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希瑟和孩子們在玩他的平板,
07:34
when she sees a message appear on the screen:
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她看見一條訊息出現在螢幕上:
07:37
"Can't wait to see you."
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我等不及要見你了。
07:39
Strange, she thinks, we just saw each other.
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心裡感到莫名, 我們不是才剛分開嗎?她想
07:42
And then another message:
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接著另一封訊息寫道:
07:44
"Can't wait to hold you in my arms."
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等不及將你緊緊地抱在懷裡。
07:47
And Heather realizes
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希瑟頓時知道
07:50
these are not for her.
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這些訊息不是給她的
07:52
She also tells me that her father had affairs,
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她告訴我,她的父親也有外遇
07:55
but her mother, she found one little receipt in the pocket,
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她的母親在他的口袋中發現一張小收據
07:59
and a little bit of lipstick on the collar.
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領口上沾染一點口紅。
08:03
Heather, she goes digging,
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希瑟開始抽絲剝繭
08:06
and she finds hundreds of messages,
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她發現他們之間互傳幾百封的簡訊
08:09
and photos exchanged and desires expressed.
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互相交換照片,對彼此訴說情慾
08:13
The vivid details of Nick's two-year affair
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尼克外遇兩年的證據和細節擺在眼前
08:16
unfold in front of her in real time,
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在現實中赤裸地呈現出來
08:19
And it made me think:
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不禁使我想到
08:21
Affairs in the digital age are death by a thousand cuts.
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在數位時代,外遇就像凌遲
08:27
But then we have another paradox that we're dealing with these days.
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但我們現今卻存在另一個矛盾
08:31
Because of this romantic ideal,
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浪漫的理想,
08:33
we are relying on our partner's fidelity with a unique fervor.
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我們依賴父母之間對彼此忠誠
08:38
But we also have never been more inclined to stray,
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但也時常偏離正道
08:42
and not because we have new desires today,
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並非現今的慾望比以前更多
08:45
but because we live in an era
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而是生在這個世代
08:47
where we feel that we are entitled to pursue our desires,
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我們被灌輸要追求自己所渴望的一切
08:50
because this is the culture where I deserve to be happy.
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在這個文化薰陶下,我理應過得快樂
08:55
And if we used to divorce because we were unhappy,
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如果過去我們因為不開心而離婚
08:59
today we divorce because we could be happier.
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今日我們離婚為追求更快樂的生活
09:03
And if divorce carried all the shame,
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過去,離婚是可恥的
09:06
today, choosing to stay when you can leave
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現在,當你可以離婚是卻選擇留下
09:10
is the new shame.
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同樣也被認為可恥。
09:12
So Heather, she can't talk to her friends
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所以希瑟無法向她的好友訴說這一切
09:15
because she's afraid that they will judge her for still loving Nick,
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她怕朋友會認為她仍愛著尼克
09:18
and everywhere she turns, she gets the same advice:
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無論求助何方,得到的都是一樣的建議
09:21
Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb.
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離開尼克,把這爛男人丟在一旁。
09:25
And if the situation were reversed, Nick would be in the same situation.
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現在情況顛倒過來,尼克也會面臨同樣的事
09:31
Staying is the new shame.
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選擇留下也會視為可恥
09:35
So if we can divorce,
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如果我們可以選擇離婚
09:38
why do we still have affairs?
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為何外遇仍存在?
09:41
Now, the typical assumption is that if someone cheats,
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一個典型的假設是,如果有人外遇
09:46
either there's something wrong in your relationship or wrong with you.
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不論問題在於你或你們的關係
09:51
But millions of people can't all be pathological.
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大部份的人是正常的
09:56
The logic goes like this: If you have everything you need at home,
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邏輯是這樣的,家裡有你需要的一切
10:00
then there is no need to go looking elsewhere,
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那就沒有必要去別處找
10:03
assuming that there is such a thing as a perfect marriage
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假設有一個完美的婚姻
10:07
that will inoculate us against wanderlust.
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它讓我們的心繫著家裡
10:11
But what if passion has a finite shelf life?
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但是假設激情有保存期限?
10:15
What if there are things that even a good relationship
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假設一段再好的關係
10:19
can never provide?
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也有它欠缺的東西?
10:22
If even happy people cheat,
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如果就連開心的人都會外遇
10:25
what is it about?
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又是為什麼呢?
10:28
The vast majority of people that I actually work with
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大多數和我一同工作的人
10:31
are not at all chronic philanderers.
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都不是習慣於調戲他人的人
10:34
They are often people who are deeply monogamous in their beliefs,
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他們絕大部分推崇一夫一妻制
10:38
and at least for their partner.
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至少對他們的另一半是這樣。
10:40
But they find themselves in a conflict
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但是它們發現身處矛盾之中
10:43
between their values and their behavior.
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因為價值觀和行為南轅北轍
10:47
They often are people who have actually been faithful for decades,
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十幾年來,他們常常對另一半忠誠
10:51
but one day they cross a line
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有天,他們越過那條線
10:54
that they never thought they would cross,
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他們從未想過自己會越界
10:57
and at the risk of losing everything.
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且冒著會失去一切的風險
11:00
But for a glimmer of what?
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但是為的是什麼呢?
11:03
Affairs are an act of betrayal,
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外遇是背叛的行為
11:06
and they are also an expression of longing and loss.
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也是表達渴望和失去的方式
11:10
At the heart of an affair, you will often find
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你會發現婚外情的核心
11:14
a longing and a yearning for an emotional connection,
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4261
是對憧憬和嚮往的一種情緒表達
11:18
for novelty, for freedom, for autonomy, for sexual intensity,
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尋求新奇、自由、自主和性刺激
11:24
a wish to recapture lost parts of ourselves
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希望重現自己失去的那一塊
11:28
or an attempt to bring back vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.
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或企圖在失落和悲慘的生活中找回活力
11:34
I'm thinking about another patient of mine, Priya,
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這使我想到另一位客戶,普里亞
11:37
who is blissfully married,
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她有個幸福美滿的婚姻
11:40
loves her husband,
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1465
且深愛她的丈夫
11:41
and would never want to hurt the man.
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永遠都不曾想過傷害這個男人
11:44
But she also tells me
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但她同時告訴我
11:46
that she's always done what was expected of her:
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她總是按著大家對她的期許生活
11:50
good girl, good wife, good mother,
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當個好女孩、好妻子,好媽媽
11:53
taking care of her immigrant parents.
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照顧她移民的雙親
11:56
Priya, she fell for the arborist who removed the tree from her yard
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4512
桑迪颶風過境後,普里亞愛上從她院子
12:01
after Hurricane Sandy.
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移走樹木的樹藝家
12:03
And with his truck and his tattoos, he's quite the opposite of her.
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他駕駛著卡車,帶有紋身,和她恰恰相反
12:09
But at 47, Priya's affair is about the adolescence that she never had.
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但47歲,普里亞的婚外情就這樣稍縱即逝
12:15
And her story highlights for me that when we seek the gaze of another,
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她的故事提醒我,我們常尋求他人的注意
12:21
it isn't always our partner that we are turning away from,
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那人不是我們常避開頭的另一伴
12:25
but the person that we have ourselves become.
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而是我們心中希望成為的那個人
12:29
And it isn't so much that we're looking for another person,
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我們注視著另一個人
12:33
as much as we are looking for another self.
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就像在她身上找另一個自己的影子
12:39
Now, all over the world,
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現在,世界各地
12:40
there is one word that people who have affairs always tell me.
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有婚外情的人都會這樣跟我說
12:45
They feel alive.
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他們覺得重生了
12:48
And they often will tell me stories of recent losses --
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他們也常常告訴我最近生活上失落的事
12:52
of a parent who died,
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1855
父親或母親去世了
12:54
and a friend that went too soon,
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2200
朋友太快離開人間
12:56
and bad news at the doctor.
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或從醫生口中捎來,不幸的消息
12:59
Death and mortality often live in the shadow of an affair,
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死亡和失敗多寄宿在婚外情的影子裡
13:04
because they raise these questions.
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它們讓人產生這些疑問
13:06
Is this it? Is there more?
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就這樣?沒有更多了嗎?
13:09
Am I going on for another 25 years like this?
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未來的25年也是這樣過嗎?
13:13
Will I ever feel that thing again?
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我會再次有那樣的感受嗎?
13:18
And it has led me to think that perhaps these questions
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這使我想到,假使這些問題
13:22
are the ones that propel people to cross the line,
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3159
驅使人們去跨越界線
13:25
and that some affairs are an attempt to beat back deadness,
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3992
有些人外遇是試圖要擺脫無精打采的生活
13:29
in an antidote to death.
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把它當作死亡的解毒劑
13:33
And contrary to what you may think,
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相反地,你可能會想
13:36
affairs are way less about sex, and a lot more about desire:
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5036
婚外情比起性愛,更關乎渴望
13:41
desire for attention, desire to feel special,
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3489
想要獲得注意,想到感到獨一無二
13:45
desire to feel important.
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1916
想要感到自己是重要的
13:48
And the very structure of an affair,
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3010
婚外情的結構本身
13:51
the fact that you can never have your lover,
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事實是我們會對另一半
13:53
keeps you wanting.
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1435
感到厭煩
13:54
That in itself is a desire machine,
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3021
婚外情是個製造渴望的機器
13:57
because the incompleteness, the ambiguity,
225
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2788
不完全性和模糊的距離
14:00
keeps you wanting that which you can't have.
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讓人想得到自己不該擁有的
14:05
Now some of you probably think
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1536
現在一些人大概想說
14:07
that affairs don't happen in open relationships,
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婚外情在開放式的關係中不會存在
14:10
but they do.
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但是他還是會發生
14:12
First of all, the conversation about monogamy is not the same
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第一,關於一夫一妻制的對話是不同的
14:15
as the conversation about infidelity.
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更遑論婚外情
14:18
But the fact is that it seems that even when we have
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但事實是,就算我們有了
14:21
the freedom to have other sexual partners,
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可以有其他性伴侶的自由
14:24
we still seem to be lured by the power of the forbidden,
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我們仍會著迷於觸犯禁忌的感覺
14:28
that if we do that which we are not supposed to do,
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當我們做了不該做的事
14:32
then we feel like we are really doing what we want to.
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我們會覺得,在做我們真正想做的事
14:37
And I've also told quite a few of my patients
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我跟很多病人說
14:40
that if they could bring into their relationships
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4601
如果在一段關係中
14:45
one tenth of the boldness, the imagination and the verve
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他們可以帶入十分之一的勇氣、想像力和活力
14:49
that they put into their affairs,
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把外遇時的十分之一放到婚姻
14:50
they probably would never need to see me.
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就可能永遠不會來上們求診了
14:53
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
14:56
So how do we heal from an affair?
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所以我們要如何從婚外情中康復?
15:00
Desire runs deep.
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慾望已根深蒂固
15:02
Betrayal runs deep.
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1871
背叛也是
15:05
But it can be healed.
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但這是可以治癒的
15:07
And some affairs are death knells
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2921
有時婚外情就像死亡的鐘聲
15:10
for relationships that were already dying on the vine.
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2738
折磨那些接近凋零的關係
15:14
But others will jolt us into new possibilities.
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3016
但那鐘聲也會敲醒一些人探索新的可能
15:17
The fact is, the majority of couples
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1983
事實是,大部分歷經過
15:19
who have experienced affairs stay together.
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2214
婚外情的夫妻仍在一起
15:22
But some of them will merely survive,
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有些則難以回復到從前
15:25
and others will actually be able to turn a crisis into an opportunity.
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4704
其他甚至將危機化為轉機
15:30
They'll be able to turn this into a generative experience.
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3643
他們能夠將這個做為一輩子的經驗
15:34
And I'm actually thinking even more so for the deceived partner,
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3714
我其實還得更多,所以對於被欺騙的那方
15:38
who will often say,
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1336
他們常說
15:39
"You think I didn't want more?
257
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1807
你以為我就不想要更多嗎?
15:41
But I'm not the one who did it."
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1842
但我沒有外遇
15:43
But now that the affair is exposed,
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2142
現在,婚外情揭露後
15:46
they, too, get to claim more,
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2134
他們開始要求更多
15:48
and they no longer have to uphold the status quo
261
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2642
所以他們不必再維持現狀
15:50
that may not have been working for them that well, either.
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2914
反而過得更好
15:56
I've noticed that a lot of couples,
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2889
我注意到很多對夫妻
15:59
in the immediate aftermath of an affair,
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2141
在婚外情結束後的一段時間
16:01
because of this new disorder that may actually lead to a new order,
265
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4336
生活上的失序反而讓他們重新找回生活步調
16:05
will have depths of conversations with honesty and openness
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開始進行有深度、誠實、開放的對話
16:09
that they haven't had in decades.
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1655
彌補過去幾十年的空白
16:11
And, partners who were sexually indifferent
268
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2937
而且,性冷淡的夫妻們
16:14
find themselves suddenly so lustfully voracious,
269
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2599
發現他們突然性急地渴望彼此
16:17
they don't know where it's coming from.
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2535
連他們都不知這感覺哪裡來的
16:20
Something about the fear of loss will rekindle desire,
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3953
害怕失去會使人重新燃起興趣
16:24
and make way for an entirely new kind of truth.
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3319
並用全然不同的角度看待一切
16:30
So when an affair is exposed,
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所以當婚外情暴露了
16:33
what are some of the specific things that couples can do?
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夫妻間可以做什麼具體的是呢?
16:38
We know from trauma that healing begins
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心理創傷開始癒合時
16:42
when the perpetrator acknowledges their wrongdoing.
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3992
是在外遇的那方主動先認錯
16:47
So for the partner who had the affair,
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所以外遇的那方,
16:51
for Nick,
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1532
像是尼克
16:52
one thing is to end the affair,
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1805
他該做的事是結束這段婚外情
16:54
but the other is the essential, important act of expressing
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4722
另一件必不可少且重要的是
16:59
guilt and remorse for hurting his wife.
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表達出傷害妻子讓他感到內疚又自責
17:02
But the truth is
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1375
但真相是
17:04
that I have noticed that quite a lot of people who have affairs
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3101
我注意到大部分有婚外情的人
17:07
may feel terribly guilty for hurting their partner,
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3098
對於傷害另一伴感到極度的內疚
17:10
but they don't feel guilty for the experience of the affair itself.
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3213
但是他們並不覺得婚外情本身是有罪的
17:14
And that distinction is important.
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這個區別很重要
17:17
And Nick, he needs to hold vigil for the relationship.
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尼克在這個關係中需要保持警戒
17:21
He needs to become, for a while, the protector of the boundaries.
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他需要暫時做這個分界的保護者
17:24
It's his responsibility to bring it up,
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2623
這是他的責任
17:26
because if he thinks about it,
290
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1980
因為只要他這樣做
17:28
he can relieve Heather from the obsession,
291
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3010
就會讓希瑟從痛庫苦之中解脫
17:31
and from having to make sure that the affair isn't forgotten,
292
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同時也確認這段婚外情時不被遺忘的
17:35
and that in itself begins to restore trust.
293
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也讓自己慢慢找回和希瑟間的信任
17:39
But for Heather,
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1859
但對於希瑟
17:41
or deceived partners,
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1745
和被欺騙的那一方
17:43
it is essential to do things that bring back a sense of self-worth,
296
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5338
做一些能讓自己找回自我價值的事
17:48
to surround oneself with love and with friends and activities
297
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3733
讓愛、好友和各種活動填滿自己的生活
17:52
that give back joy and meaning and identity.
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3403
這讓人重拾快樂,和自身的價值
17:55
But even more important,
299
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1933
但更重要的是
17:57
is to curb the curiosity to mine for the sordid details --
300
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4903
要抑制住想要挖角過去黑暗面的好奇心
18:02
Where were you? Where did you do it?
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2197
你當時在哪裡?你那時做了什麼?
18:04
How often? Is she better than me in bed? --
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3022
很常見面嗎?她的上床技術比我更好?
18:07
questions that only inflict more pain,
303
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2484
這些問題只會讓彼此更受傷
18:10
and keep you awake at night.
304
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1484
並讓自己失眠
18:12
And instead, switch to what I call the investigative questions,
305
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而是,切換到我所說的調查性問題
18:17
the ones that mine the meaning and the motives --
306
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3300
針對背後的意義和動機-
18:20
What did this affair mean for you?
307
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2473
外遇對你意味著什麼?
18:23
What were you able to express or experience there
308
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2772
你在那的表達和經歷些什麼
18:25
that you could no longer do with me?
309
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2255
和我在一起無法做的事?
18:28
What was it like for you when you came home?
310
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3032
你回到家時有什麼感覺?
18:31
What is it about us that you value?
311
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3399
我們之間你最珍惜什麼?
18:34
Are you pleased this is over?
312
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2152
這件是告一段落你開心嗎?
18:38
Every affair will redefine a relationship,
313
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4321
每段婚外情都會讓人重新檢視婚姻
18:42
and every couple will determine
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2882
每對夫妻都會決定
18:45
what the legacy of the affair will be.
315
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2535
婚外情後留下的是什麼
18:49
But affairs are here to stay, and they're not going away.
316
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3762
婚外情會留下,它不會被淡忘。
18:54
And the dilemmas of love and desire,
317
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2643
愛情和慾望之間的兩難
18:56
they don't yield just simple answers of black and white and good and bad,
318
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5970
夫妻間不會用簡單的答案,黑白是非來定義
19:02
and victim and perpetrator.
319
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1974
害傷的和做錯事的人
19:06
Betrayal in a relationship comes in many forms.
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4075
一段關係中,背叛有很多形式
19:10
There are many ways that we betray our partner:
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我們用很多方法背叛另一伴
19:12
with contempt, with neglect,
322
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2169
蔑視和忽視
19:14
with indifference, with violence.
323
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2473
冷漠和暴力
19:17
Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner.
324
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3438
用性背叛是傷害另一伴的方式之一
19:21
In other words, the victim of an affair
325
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2604
也就是說,婚外情中的受傷者
19:24
is not always the victim of the marriage.
326
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2942
並不是都是在婚姻中受傷的
19:29
Now, you've listened to me,
327
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2208
現在,你聽我說
19:32
and I know what you're thinking:
328
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2375
我知道你在想什麼
19:34
She has a French accent, she must be pro-affair.
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3774
她有法式口音,她一定贊成婚外情
19:38
(Laughter)
330
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3302
(笑聲)
19:43
So, you're wrong.
331
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1504
所以,你錯了
19:45
I am not French.
332
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1555
我不是法國人
19:47
(Laughter)
333
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2453
(笑聲)
19:50
(Applause)
334
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2880
(掌聲)
19:53
And I'm not pro-affair.
335
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1667
我也沒有外遇過
19:56
But because I think that good can come out of an affair,
336
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4384
但因為認為婚外情過後會帶來好處
20:01
I have often been asked this very strange question:
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3331
我常被問到這個十分奇怪的問題:
20:04
Would I ever recommend it?
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1737
你支持婚外情嗎?
20:07
Now, I would no more recommend you have an affair
339
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2991
現在,我不會再建議你去外遇
20:10
than I would recommend you have cancer,
340
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2544
我建議你得癌症
20:13
and yet we know that people who have been ill
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2703
到目前為止,我們知道病入膏肓的人
20:15
often talk about how their illness has yielded them a new perspective.
342
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4198
常說身患重疾使他們對人生有新的領悟
20:20
The main question that I've been asked since I arrived at this conference
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3337
抵達這個會議後我主要被問的問題是
20:23
when I said I would talk about infidelity is, for or against?
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當我說我要講述將於婚外情,贊成還是反對
20:28
I said, "Yes."
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我說「是」
20:30
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
20:33
I look at affairs from a dual perspective:
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我用兩個面向看婚外情
20:37
hurt and betrayal on one side,
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受傷和背叛在一塊
20:41
growth and self-discovery on the other --
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成長和自我探索在另一邊
20:44
what it did to you, and what it meant for me.
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婚外其對你做過什麼,意義又是什麼?
20:48
And so when a couple comes to me in the aftermath of an affair
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所以當一對夫妻在婚外情
20:53
that has been revealed,
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被揭露過後來找我
20:55
I will often tell them this:
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我都這樣告訴他們
20:57
Today in the West,
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現今在西方國家
20:59
most of us are going to have two or three relationships
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大部分的我們都有過兩到三段感情
21:04
or marriages,
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1699
或婚姻
21:06
and some of us are going to do it with the same person.
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有時候我們和同一個人經歷過這些
21:10
Your first marriage is over.
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你們第一個婚姻已經是過去式了
21:13
Would you like to create a second one together?
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你們願意一起展開第二個嶄新的婚姻嗎?
21:17
Thank you.
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謝謝
21:18
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
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