Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness

Translator: Polonca Štritof Reviewer: Nina Ivančič

I grew up in Europe, and World War II caught me

Odrastel sem v Evropi in druga svetovna vojna me je zajela,

when I was between seven and 10 years old.

ko sem bil star med sedem in deset let.

And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew

Spoznal sem, kako je bilo le malo odraslih, ki sem jih poznal,

were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them --

sposobnih prenesti tragedije, ki jih je prinesla vojna,

how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented,

kako malo jih je lahko vzpostavilo dokaj normalno, zadovoljno,

satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security

izpolnjeno, srečno življenje, potem ko so bile njihove zaposlitve, domovi in njihova varnost

was destroyed by the war.

uničeni zaradi vojne.

So I became interested in understanding

Zato me je začelo zanimati,

what contributed to a life that was worth living.

kaj je tisto, kar vpliva na življenje, da ga je vredno živeti.

And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy

Kot otrok, najstnik, sem poskušal brati filozofijo,

and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways

vključeval sem se v umetnost in religijo ter veliko drugih načinov,

that I could see as a possible answer to that question.

prek katerih bi lahko prišel do odgovora na tisto vprašanje.

And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.

In končno, sem po naključju spoznal psihologijo.

I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money

Zgodilo se je na smučišču v Švici, brez denarja,

to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and

da bi lahko dejansko užival, kajti sneg se je stopil

I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the --

in nisem imel denarja, da bi lahko šel v kino. Ampak spoznal sem --

I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation

v časopisu sem prebral članek o tem, da bo nekdo v nekem prostoru,

by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich,

ki sem ga videl v središču Züricha, imel predavanje

and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk.

in da bo govoril o letečih krožnikih.

And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies,

Mislil sem si, no, ker ne morem v kino,

at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers.

bom vsaj lahko brezplačno poslušal o letečih krožnikih.

And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting.

Moški, ki je govoril tisti večer, je bil zelo zanimiv.

Instead of talking about little green men,

Namesto, da bi govoril o majhnih zelenih možeh,

he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans

je govoril, kako je bila psiha Evropejcev

had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting

travmatizirana zaradi vojne in kako projicirajo

flying saucers into the sky.

leteče krožnike na nebo.

He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion

Govoril je, kako so bile Mandale v stari hindujski religiji

were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain

nekako projicirane v nebo kot poskus ponovne pridobitve

some sense of order after the chaos of war.

nekega smisla reda po vsem kaosu, ki ga je prinesla vojna.

And this seemed very interesting to me.

In to se mi je zdelo zelo zanimivo.

And I started reading his books after that lecture.

Po predavanju sem začel brati njegove knjige.

And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.

Šlo je za Carla Junga, čigar ime in dela nisem poznal.

Then I came to this country to study psychology

Nato sem prišel v to državo študirat psihologijo

and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness.

in poskušal razumeti poti do sreče.

This is a typical result that many people have presented,

To je tipični rezultat, ki so ga predstavili mnogi ljudje,

and there are many variations on it.

in obstajajo zelo različne variacije.

But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people

Ampak ta na primer kaže, da okoli 30 % ljudi,

surveyed in the United States since 1956

ki so jih anketirali v ZDA od leta 1956,

say that their life is very happy.

pravi, da živijo srečno življenje.

And that hasn't changed at all.

In to se sploh ni spremenilo.

Whereas the personal income,

Medtem ko se je v tem obdobju osebni zaslužek

on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation,

na lestvici, ki je konstantna zaradi izločitve vpliva inflacije,

has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period.

več kot podvojil, skoraj potrojil.

But you find essentially the same results,

V bistvu lahko najdemo enake rezultate,

namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less

torej, da po določeni točki -- ki bolj ali manj odgovarja

to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level --

samo nekaj 1000 dolarjev nad minimalno mejo revščine --

increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are.

višanje materialnega blagostanja ne vpliva na to, kako srečni so ljudje.

In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources,

Dejansko lahko ugotovimo, da pomanjkanje osnovnih virov

material resources, contributes to unhappiness,

pripomore k nesreči,

but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.

ampak višek materialnih virov ne poviša sreče.

So my research has been focused more on --

Veliko mojih raziskav se je osredotočalo bolj --

after finding out these things that actually corresponded

potem ko sem spoznal, da se te ugotovitve dejansko skladajo

to my own experience, I tried to understand:

z mojimi lastnimi ugotovitvami, sem poskušal razumeti:

where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience --

kje -- v vsakdanjem življenju, v naših normalnih izkušnjah --

do we feel really happy?

se počutimo resnično srečne?

And to start

Če začnem,

those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people --

v raziskavah pred 40 leti sem začel preučevati kreativne ljudi --

first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand

najprej umetnike in znanstvenike in tako naprej -- vse zato, da bi razumel,

what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life

kaj jih je prepričalo v to, da posvetijo svoje življenje

doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune,

stvarem, od katerih povečini ni pričakovati ne slave ne bogastva,

but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.

ampak delajo življenje smiselno in vredno truda.

This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s.

To je bil eden izmed vodilnih ameriških skladateljev v sedemdesetih letih.

And the interview was 40 pages long.

Intervju je imel 40 strani.

But this little excerpt is a very good summary

Ta kratek odlomek zelo dobro povzame,

of what he was saying during the interview.

kar je povedal med intervjujem.

And it describes how he feels when composing is going well.

Opisuje, kako se počuti, ko mu gre skladnja glasbe dobro od rok.

And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.

To opiše kot ekstatično stanje.

Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant

"Ekstaza" v grščini pomeni

simply to stand to the side of something.

preprosto stati ob robu nečesa.

And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state

Sčasoma je postala analogija za mentalno stanje,

where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines.

ko se počutiš, da ne izvajaš neke vsakodnevne rutine.

So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality.

Ekstaza je v bistvu vstopanje v alternativno realnost.

And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about

Zanimivo je, ko razmišljamo o civilizacijah,

the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement --

na katere gledamo kot na višek dosežkov človeštva --

whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization,

naj je to Kitajska, Grčija, hindujska civilizacija,

or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them

ali Maji ali Egipčani -- tisto, kar o njih poznamo,

is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life.

so njihove ekstaze, ne pa njihov vsakdan.

We know the temples they built, where people could come

Poznamo templje, ki so jih gradili, kamor so ljudje prihajali,

to experience a different reality.

da bi doživeli alternativno realnost.

We know about the circuses,

Poznamo cirkuse,

the arenas, the theaters.

arene, teatre.

These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went

To so ostanki civilizacij in to so kraji, ki so jih ljudje obiskovali,

to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.

da bi doživeli življenje v bolj koncentrirani, bolj organizirani obliki.

Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this,

Temu moškemu ni treba obiskati kraja,

which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built

kot je ta arena, ki je zgrajena

like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also.

kot grški amfiteatri in je tudi kraj za ekstazo.

We are participating in a reality that is different

Mi sodelujemo v realnosti, ki je drugačna

from that of the everyday life that we're used to.

od tiste, na katero smo navajeni.

But this man doesn't need to go there.

Ampak temu človeku ni treba iti tja.

He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks,

Potrebuje le kos papirja za zapisovanje not,

and as he does that, he can imagine sounds

in medtem ko to počne, si predstavlja zvoke,

that had not existed before in that particular combination.

ki pred tem niso obstajali v tisti določeni kombinaciji.

So once he gets to that point of beginning to create,

Ko torej doseže točko ustvarjanja,

like Jennifer did in her improvisation,

kot je Jennifer izvedla svojo improvizacijo,

a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy --

doseže novo realnost -- nov moment ekstaze --

he enters that different reality.

vstopi v to drugačno realnost.

Now he says also that this is so intense an experience

Pravi, da je to tako intenzivna izkušnja,

that it feels almost as if he didn't exist.

da se mu skoraj zdi, kot da ne bi obstajal.

And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration.

To zveni kot nekakšno romantično pretiravanje.

But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing

A dejansko naš živčni sistem ne zmore procesirati

more than about 110 bits of information per second.

več kot približno 110 bitov informacij na sekundo.

And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying,

Da me zdaj lahko slišite in razumete,

you need to process about 60 bits per second.

morate procesirati okoli 60 bitov informacij na sekundo.

That's why you can't hear more than two people.

Zato ne morete poslušati več kot dve osebi naenkrat.

You can't understand more than two people talking to you.

Nemogoče je razumeti več kot dve osebi, ki nam sočasno nekaj govorita.

Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process

Ko smo resnično vpeti v tako intenziven proces ustvarjanja,

of creating something new, as this man is,

kot je na primer ta moški,

he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor

mu ne preostane dovolj pozornosti, da bi lahko spremljal,

how his body feels, or his problems at home.

kako se počuti njegovo telo, ali razmišljal o problemih doma.

He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired.

Ne čuti niti lakote niti utrujenosti.

His body disappears,

Njegovo telo izgine,

his identity disappears from his consciousness,

njegova identiteta izgine iz njegove zavesti,

because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do,

ker nima dovolj pozornosti -- kot nihče med nami, --

to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration,

da bi dejansko dobro naredil nekaj, kar zahteva veliko koncentracije,

and at the same time to feel that he exists.

in hkrati čutil, da obstaja.

So existence is temporarily suspended.

Obstoj je torej začasno prekinjen.

And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself.

Rekel je, da se je zdelo, kot da bi se njegova roka premikala sama.

Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel

Jaz bi lahko strmel v svojo roko dva tedna in ne bi čutil

any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)

nobenega občudovanja ali začudenja, ker pač ne znam komponirati.

So what it's telling you here

Iz intervjuja očitno vidimo,

is that obviously this automatic,

da ta avtomatični,

spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone

spontani proces, ki ga opisuje, lahko doživi le nekdo,

who is very well trained and who has developed technique.

ki je zelo dobro natreniran in ki je razvil svojo tehniko.

And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity

To je postala nekakšna splošno znana resnica v raziskovanju kreativnosti,

that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years

da ne moreš ustvarjati z manj kot 10 leti

of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field.

poglobljenega tehničnega znanja na določenem področju.

Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long

Naj bo matematika ali glasba, toliko časa je potrebno vložiti,

to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better

zato da lahko nekaj spremeniš tako, da je boljše

than what was there before.

kot je bilo pred tem.

Now, when that happens,

Ko se to zgodi,

he says the music just flows out.

pravi, glasba kar steče.

And because all of these people I started interviewing --

Zato ker vsi ti ljudje, ki sem jih začel intervjuvati,

this was an interview which is over 30 years old --

ta intervju je več kot 30 let star,

so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow

veliko med njimi jih je to opisalo kot spontani tok,

that I called this type of experience the "flow experience."

vrsta izkušnje, ki sem jo poimenoval "izkušnja zanosa."

And it happens in different realms.

Zgodi se na različnih ravneh.

For instance, a poet describes it in this form.

Na primer pesnik ga opiše na tak način.

This is by a student of mine who interviewed

To je delo mojega študenta, ki je intervjuval

some of the leading writers and poets in the United States.

enega izmed najboljših ameriških pisateljev in pesnikov.

And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling

Ponovno opisuje lahkoten, spontan občutek,

that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state.

ko vstopiš v to ekstatično stanje.

This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky --

Ta pesnik opiše občutek, kot da bi odprl v zraku lebdeča vrata --

a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave

zelo podoben opisu, kot ga je podal Albert Einstein,

as to how he imagined the forces of relativity,

ko si je predstavljal relativnostne sile,

when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked.

ko je poskušal razumeti, kako deluje mehanizem, ki ga je preučeval.

But it happens in other activities.

Ampak to se dogaja tudi pri drugih aktivnosti.

For instance, this is another student of mine,

Na primer, moja druga študentka,

Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work

Susan Jackson iz Avstralije, ki je delala

with some of the leading athletes in the world.

z nekaterimi vodilnimi atleti na svetu.

And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater,

Tu lahko vidite opis olimpijskega skejterja,

the same essential description of the phenomenology

v osnovi podoben opis fenomena

of the inner state of the person.

notranjega stanja osebe.

You don't think; it goes automatically,

Si ne boste mislili; poteka avtomatsko,

if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.

če se združiš z glasbo in tako naprej.

It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote,

Zgodi se tudi, kot sem zapisal v svoji zadnji knjigi

called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs

z naslovom "Good Business", kjer sem intervjuval nekatere izvršne direktorje,

who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful

ki so jih kolegi nominirali kot najbolj uspešne

and very ethical, very socially responsible.

in hkrati zelo etične, družbeno odgovorne.

You see that these people define success

Lahko vidite, da ti ljudje definirajo uspeh

as something that helps others and at the same time

kot nekaj, kar pomaga drugim in hkrati

makes you feel happy as you are working at it.

pripomore k lastnemu občutku sreče, ko to počneš.

And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say,

Tako kot vsi ti uspešni in odgovorni izvršni direktorji,

you can't have just one of these things be successful

eno ne poteka brez drugega, ne moreš biti le uspešen,

if you want a meaningful and successful job.

če želiš imeti smiselno in uspešno zaposlitev.

Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed.

Anita Roddick je ena zmed teh izvršnih direktorjev, ki smo jih intervjuvali.

She is the founder of Body Shop,

Je ustanoviteljica Body Shop-a,

the natural cosmetics king.

vodilne blagovne znamke naravne kozmetike.

It's kind of a passion that comes

Gre za nekakšno strast,

from doing the best and having flow while you're working.

ko delaš najbolje, kar lahko in pri tem občutiš zanos.

This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka,

To je zanimiv krajši citat Masaru Ibuke,

who was at that time starting out Sony without any money,

ki je v tistem času brez denarja ustanovil Sony,

without a product -- they didn't have a product,

brez izdelka -- niso imeli izdelka,

they didn't have anything, but they had an idea.

niso imeli nič drugega kot idejo.

And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers

Njegova ideja je bila, da bi ustanovil delovna mesta za inženirje,

can feel the joy of technological innovation,

kjer bi lahko občutili veselje ob tehnoloških inovacijah,

be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content.

ki bi se zavedali svojega poslanstva do družbe in bi jim bilo delo v užitek.

I couldn't improve on this as a good example

Ne bi mogel podati boljšega primera,

of how flow enters the workplace.

kako zanos vstopi v sfero dela in zaposlovanja.

Now, when we do studies --

No, ko opravljamo raziskave --

we have, with other colleagues around the world,

z drugimi kolegi po svetu

done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks,

smo izvedli intervjuje z več kot 8000 ljudmi -- od Dominikanskih duhovnikov,

to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds --

do slepih nun, do gornikov po Himalaji, pastirjev iz Navaja,

who enjoy their work.

ki uživajo v svojem delu.

And regardless of the culture,

Ne glede na kulturo,

regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions

ne glede na izobrazbo ali kaj drugega, to je sedem pogojev,

that seem to be there when a person is in flow.

ki naj bi bili prisotni pri osebi, ki občuti zanos.

There's this focus that, once it becomes intense,

Obstaja ta osredotočenost, ki postane tako intenzivna,

leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity:

da vodi do občutka ekstaze, občutka jasnosti;

you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other;

točno veš, kaj želiš doseči iz enega trenutka v drugega;

you get immediate feedback.

dobiš takojšnjo povratno informacijo.

You know that what you need to do

Veš, da je tisto, kar moraš narediti,

is possible to do, even though difficult,

dosegljivo, čeprav je težko,

and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself,

in občutek za čas izgine, pozabiš nase,

you feel part of something larger.

počutiš se kot del nečesa večjega.

And once the conditions are present,

Ko so prisotni ti pogoji,

what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.

to, kar počneš, postane vredno početja samo po sebi.

In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme.

V naših raziskavah predstavljamo vsakdanje življenje ljudi v tej enostavni shemi.

And we can measure this very precisely, actually,

To dejansko lahko merimo zelo natančno,

because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day,

saj damo ljudem elektronske pozivnike, ki se sprožijo desetkrat na dan

and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel,

in ko se to zgodi, navadno povejo, kaj počnejo, kako se počutijo,

where you are, what you're thinking about.

kje se nahajajo in o čem razmišljajo.

And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge

Dve stvari, ki ju pri tem merimo, sta stopnja izziva,

people experience at that moment and the amount of skill

ki ga doživljajo ljudje v določenem trenutku in stopnja veščine,

that they feel they have at that moment.

ki jo čutijo v tistem trenutku.

So for each person we can establish an average,

Za vsako osebo lahko postavimo povprečje,

which is the center of the diagram.

ki je središče diagrama.

That would be your mean level of challenge and skill,

To naj bi bila povprečna raven izziva in spretnosti neke osebe,

which will be different from that of anybody else.

ta pa se razlikuje od vsakega posameznika.

But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.

Ampak imamo nekakšno izhodiščno točko, ki se nahaja v sredini.

If we know what that set point is,

Če vemo, kakšna je ta izhodiščna točka,

we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow,

lahko precej natančno predvidimo, kdaj bo oseba v zanosu

and it will be when your challenges are higher than average

in to bo takrat, ko bo izziv višje od povprečja

and skills are higher than average.

in veščine višje od povprečja.

And you may be doing things very differently from other people,

Lahko počnete stvari povsem drugače kot drugi ljudje,

but for everyone that flow channel, that area there,

ampak za vsakega bo kanal zanosa, to področje tukaj,

will be when you are doing what you really like to do --

ko počne nekaj, v čemer resnično uživa --

play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work,

igra klavir, je s svojim najboljšim prijateljem, morda na svojem delovnem mestu,

if work is what provides flow for you.

če delo nudi občutek zanosa.

And then the other areas become less and less positive.

Tako druga področja postanejo vse manj pozitivna.

Arousal is still good because you are over-challenged there.

Vzburjenje je še vedno dobro, saj je oseba tu preokupirana.

Your skills are not quite as high as they should be,

Vaše veščine niso tako dobre, kot bi morale biti,

but you can move into flow fairly easily

ampak lahko se pomaknemo v občutek zanosa enostavno

by just developing a little more skill.

z razvojem naših spretnosti.

So, arousal is the area where most people learn from,

Vzburjenje je torej področje, v katerem se ljudje večinoma učijo,

because that's where they're pushed beyond their comfort zone

saj so v tem področju potisnjeni preko svoje cone udobja

and to enter that -- going back to flow --

in da lahko vstopijo sem -- če se vrnemo na zanos --

then they develop higher skills.

morajo razviti boljše spretnosti.

Control is also a good place to be,

V območju kontrole je tudi dobro biti,

because there you feel comfortable, but not very excited.

saj se počutimo udobno, ampak nismo preveč navdušeni.

It's not very challenging any more.

Tu nam naloge ne predstavljajo izziva.

And if you want to enter flow from control,

Če želiš iz območja kontrole prestopiti v zanos,

you have to increase the challenges.

moraš povišati raven izziva.

So those two are ideal and complementary areas

Ti dve sta idealni in komplementarni območji,

from which flow is easy to go into.

iz katerih enostavno prestopimo v zanos.

The other combinations of challenge and skill

Ostale kombinacije izziva in spretnosti,

become progressively less optimal.

postajajo progresivno manj optimalne.

Relaxation is fine -- you still feel OK.

Sproščenost je v redu -- še vedno se počutiš OK.

Boredom begins to be very aversive

Dolgočasje postaja bolj odbijajoče

and apathy becomes very negative:

in apatija postane zelo negativna:

you don't feel that you're doing anything,

ne počutiš se, da bi počel kar koli,

ne uporabljaš svojih sposobnosti, ne vidiš nikakršnega izziva.

you don't use your skills, there's no challenge.

Unfortunately, a lot of people's experience is in apathy.

Žal veliko ljudi doživlja občutke apatije.

The largest single contributor to that experience

Največji doprinos k tovrstni izkušnji

is watching television; the next one is being in the bathroom, sitting.

je gledanje televizije; naslednje je sedenje v kopalnici.

Even though sometimes watching television

Čeprav je včasih gledanje televizije

about seven to eight percent of the time is in flow,

v približno sedem do osem odstotkov časa v zanosu,

but that's when you choose a program you really want to watch

ampak to le v primeru, ko gledaš program, ki te zelo zanima

and you get feedback from it.

in z gledanjem pridobiš povratno informacijo.

So the question we are trying to address -- and I'm way over time --

Torej, vprašanje, ki ga poskušamo nasloviti -- in jaz sem šel že preko časa --

is how to put more and more of everyday life in that flow channel.

je, kako postaviti čim več vsakdanjega življenja v kanal zanosa.

And that is the kind of challenge that we're trying to understand.

In to je izziv, ki ga poskušamo razumeti.

And some of you obviously know how to do that spontaneously

Nekateri med vami znate to narediti spontano,

without any advice, but unfortunately a lot of people don't.

brez svetovanja, ampak na žalost veliko ljudi tega ne zna.

And that's what our mandate is, in a way, to do.

To je na nek način naša naloga.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplavz)