Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness

Translator: Simon Bugge Jensen Reviewer: Anders Finn Jørgensen

I grew up in Europe, and World War II caught me

Jeg voksede op i Europa og blev fanget af 2. verdenskrig,

when I was between seven and 10 years old.

da jeg var mellem 7 og 10 år gammel.

And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew

Og jeg indså, hvor få af de voksne jeg kendte,

were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them --

der kunne klare de tragedier, som krigen havde påført dem.

how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented,

Hvor få af dem der var i stand til at genoptage et velfungerende og lykkeligt liv

satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security

efter at have mistet deres job, hjem og sikkerhed

was destroyed by the war.

pga. krigen.

So I became interested in understanding

Jeg blev derfor interesseret i at forstå,

what contributed to a life that was worth living.

hvad der er medvirkende til at gøre et liv værd at leve.

And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy

Og jeg forsøgte som teenager at læse filosofi

and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways

og give mig i kast med kunst, religion og mange andre ting,

that I could see as a possible answer to that question.

som jeg kunne se som mulige svar på mit spørgsmål.

And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.

Til sidst endte jeg med at støde ind i psykologi ved et tilfælde.

I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money

Jeg var i et skisportssted i Schweiz uden penge til at have det sjovt for,

to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and

fordi sneen var smeltet

I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the --

og jeg havde ingen penge til at gå i biografen for.

I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation

Jeg læste i avisen, at der ville være en forelæsning

by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich,

et sted jeg havde set i centrum af Zûrich.

and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk.

og det ville handle om flyvende tallerkner.

Og jeg tænkte at eftersom jeg ikke kan gå i biografen,

And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies,

at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers.

så kan jeg i det mindste komme til gratis at høre om flyvende tallerkner.

And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting.

Og den mand der talte til aftenens forelæsning var meget interessant.

Instead of talking about little green men,

I stedet for at snakke om små grønne mænd,

he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans

snakkede han om, hvordan europæernes psyke

had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting

var blevet traumatiserede af krigen og nu forestillede de sig så

flying saucers into the sky.

flyvende tallerkner oppe i himlen.

He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion

Han snakkede om hvordan Mandalaer fra den gamle Hinduistiske religion

were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain

blev projiceret op på himlen i et forsøg på

at genoprette orden efter kaos fra krige.

some sense of order after the chaos of war.

And this seemed very interesting to me.

Og dette vakte min interesse.

And I started reading his books after that lecture.

Jeg startede med at læse hans bøger efter den forelæsning.

And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.

Og det var Carl Jung, hvis navn eller arbejde jeg intet kendte til.

Then I came to this country to study psychology

Så kom jeg her til landet for at studere psykologi

and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness.

og jeg startede med at prøve at forstå grundene til lykke.

This is a typical result that many people have presented,

Dette er et typisk resultat som mange har præsenteret

and there are many variations on it.

og der er mange variationer af det.

But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people

Men dette viser f.eks., at omkring 30 procent af de

surveyed in the United States since 1956

adspurgte amerikanere siden 1956 har sagt,

say that their life is very happy.

at deres liv er meget lykkeligt.

And that hasn't changed at all.

Og det har ikke ændret sig.

Whereas the personal income,

Hvorimod den personlige indkomst,

on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation,

på en konstant skala, der er korrigeret for inflation,

has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period.

er mere end fordobledes, næsten tredoblet i den periode.

But you find essentially the same results,

Men man vil finde nærmest de samme resultater,

namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less

nemlig at at efter et særligt punkt - der svarer nogenlunde

to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level --

til bare et par tusinde dollars over fattigdomsgrænsen -

increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are.

så ser en forøgelse i vores materielle velstand ikke ud til at have nogen påvirkning på, hvor lykkelige folk er.

In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources,

Man kan påvise, at manglen på basale ressourcer

material resources, contributes to unhappiness,

bidrager til følelsen af ulykkelighed,

but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.

men en forøgelse af materielle ressourcer øger ikke lykken.

So my research has been focused more on --

Derfor har min forskning været mere fokuseret på,

after finding out these things that actually corresponded

efter jeg fandt ud af, at denne sammenhæng passede

to my own experience, I tried to understand:

med min egen erfaring, at forstå det følgende:

where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience --

hvor, i vores dagligdag, i vores normale liv

do we feel really happy?

føler vi os rigtigt lykkelige.

And to start

Som start på de studier for 40 år siden,

those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people --

begyndte jeg at undersøge kreative mennesker,

first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand

først kunstnere, så forskere osv. for at prøve at forstå,

what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life

hvad der fik dem til at føle, at det var værd at bruge deres liv på

doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune,

at gøre ting som mange af dem ikke forventede hverken rigdom eller berømmelse for,

but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.

men som gjorde at deres liv gav mening og var værd at udføre.

This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s.

Det her var en de førende komponister i amerikansk musik tilbage i 70erne.

And the interview was 40 pages long.

Og interviewet var 40 sider langt.

But this little excerpt is a very good summary

Men dette lille udklip er en god opsummering af,

of what he was saying during the interview.

hvad han sagde under interviewet.

And it describes how he feels when composing is going well.

Og det beskriver hvordan han har det, når det går godt med at komponere.

And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.

Og han beskrev det som et ekstatisk stadie.

Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant

Ekstase på græsk

simply to stand to the side of something.

betyder at stå ved siden af noget.

And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state

Og har siden hen nærmest været ensbetydende med en mental tilstand,

where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines.

hvor man føler, man ikke laver ens dagligdags-rutiner.

So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality.

Ekstase kan derfor betragtes som at træde ind i en alternativ virkelighed.

And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about

Og det er interessant, hvis man tænker over det, når vi tænker

the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement --

på de civilisationer, som vi ser op til som foregangsmænd for den menneskelige udvikling,

whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization,

hvad enten det er den kinesiske, græske eller den hinduistiske civilisation

or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them

eller mayaerne eller egypterne - det vi kender til dem,

is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life.

er deres ekstaser og ikke deres daglige liv.

We know the temples they built, where people could come

Vi kender de templer de byggede, hvor folk kunne komme

to experience a different reality.

og opleve en anderledes virkelighed.

We know about the circuses,

Vi kender deres cirkus,

the arenas, the theaters.

arenaer og teatre.

These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went

Dette er resterne af af civilisationer og det er de steder, som folk tog hen,

to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.

for at opleve livet i en mere koncentreret, en mere ordnet form.

Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this,

Denne mand har ikke behov for at gå sådan et sted hen -

which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built

det her sted, denne arena, der er bygget

like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also.

som et græsk amfiteater, det er også et sted for ekstase.

We are participating in a reality that is different

Vi deltager i en virkelighed, der er forskellig

from that of the everyday life that we're used to.

fra den dagligdag vi er vant til.

But this man doesn't need to go there.

Men denne mand har ikke brug for at gå sådan et sted hen.

He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks,

Han har bare behov for et stykke papir, hvor han kan nedfælde nogle små tegn

and as he does that, he can imagine sounds

og når han gør det, kan han forestille sig lyde,

that had not existed before in that particular combination.

der ikke før har eksisteret i den særlige kombination.

So once he gets to that point of beginning to create,

Når han når til den tilstand, hvor han begynder at kreere,

like Jennifer did in her improvisation,

som Jennifer gjorde i hendes improvisation,

a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy --

vil en ny virkelighed, dvs. et øjebliks ekstase -

he enters that different reality.

så vil han træde ind i den nye virkelighed.

Now he says also that this is so intense an experience

Han siger også, at dette er en så intens oplevelse,

that it feels almost as if he didn't exist.

at det nærmest føles som om han ikke eksisterede.

And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration.

Og det lyder lidt som en romantisk overdrivelse.

But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing

Men i virkeligheden er vores nervesystem ikke i stand til at behandle

more than about 110 bits of information per second.

mere end 110 bits information per sekund.

And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying,

For at I kan høre og forstå hvad jeg siger,

you need to process about 60 bits per second.

kræver det 60 bit per sekund.

That's why you can't hear more than two people.

Det er derfor man ikke kan høre på mere end to personer.

You can't understand more than two people talking to you.

Man kan ikke forstå mere end to personer der taler til en.

Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process

Så, når man er dybt involveret i denne meget krævende proces,

of creating something new, as this man is,

som det at skabe noget nyt, som denne mand er,

he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor

så har han ikke nok opmærksomhed til overs til at registrere,

how his body feels, or his problems at home.

hvordan hans krop har det, eller hans problemer derhjemme.

He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired.

Han kan ikke engang føle, at han er sulten eller træt.

His body disappears,

Hans krop forsvinder,

his identity disappears from his consciousness,

hans identitet forsvinder fra hans bevidsthed,

because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do,

fordi han har ikke nok opmærksomhed, som ingen af os har,

to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration,

til at udføre noget ordentligt, der kræver meget koncentration

and at the same time to feel that he exists.

og på samme tid registrere, at han eksisterer.

So existence is temporarily suspended.

Så eksistensen er midlertidig suspenderet.

And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself.

Og han siger, at hans hånd bevæger sig af sig selv.

Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel

Jeg kunne kigge på min hånd i to uger

og ville ikke føle noget fantastisk, fordi jeg ikke kan komponere.

any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)

So what it's telling you here

Så hvad det fortæller os her er,

is that obviously this automatic,

at denne spontane automatiske proces,

spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone

som han omtaler, kun kan forekomme hos en,

who is very well trained and who has developed technique.

der er meget trænet og har en veludviklet teknik

And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity

Og det er blevet en form for sandhed i undersøgelser af kreativitet,

that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years

at man ikke kan skabe noget med mindre end ti års

of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field.

fordybelse indenfor dette særlige felt.

Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long

Hvad enten det er matematik eller musik, så tager det så lang tid,

to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better

før man er i stand til at ændre noget til det bedre,

than what was there before.

end hvad det var.

Now, when that happens,

Når det sker,

he says the music just flows out.

siger han at musikken flyder automatisk.

And because all of these people I started interviewing --

Og fordi mange af de personer jeg begyndte at interviewe -

this was an interview which is over 30 years old --

dette er et interview, der er over 30 år gammelt -

so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow

så mange personer beskrev det som et spontant flow,

that I called this type of experience the "flow experience."

at jeg opkaldte denne for for oplevelse for "oplevelsen af flow".

And it happens in different realms.

Og det forekommer indenfor forskellige områder.

For instance, a poet describes it in this form.

F.eks. beskriver en digter det på den måde.

This is by a student of mine who interviewed

Det her er fra en af mine studenter, der har interviewet

some of the leading writers and poets in the United States.

nogle af de førende forfattere og digtere i USA.

And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling

Og her beskrives den samme lette spontane følelse

that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state.

man opnår, når man indtræder i den ekstatiske tilstand.

This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky --

Denne digter beskriver det som at åbne en dør der svæver i himlen -

a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave

en meget lignende beskrivelse gav Albert Einstein

as to how he imagined the forces of relativity,

på hvordan, han forestillede sig relativitetsteorien,

when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked.

når han kæmpede med at prøve at forstå, hvordan den virkede.

But it happens in other activities.

Men det sker også indenfor andre aktiviteter.

For instance, this is another student of mine,

Dette er f.eks. en anden af mine studerende,

Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work

Susan Jackson fra Australien,

with some of the leading athletes in the world.

der arbejdede med nogen af verdens førende atleter.

And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater,

Og i ser her en beskrivelse fra en olympisk skøjteløber,

the same essential description of the phenomenology

den stort set samme beskrivelse af fænomenologien

of the inner state of the person.

af den indre tilstand hos en person.

You don't think; it goes automatically,

Man tænker ikke; det sker automatisk,

if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.

hvis man smelter sammen med musikken osv.

It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote,

Det sker også i den bog jeg skrev for nyligt

called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs

der hedder "Good Business", hvor jeg interviewede nogle direktører,

who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful

der var blevet nomineret af deres kollegaer for at være både meget succesfulde,

and very ethical, very socially responsible.

og meget etiske, meget socialt ansvarlige.

You see that these people define success

Man kan se, at disse folk definerer succes som noget,

as something that helps others and at the same time

der hjælper andre og på samme tid

makes you feel happy as you are working at it.

får en til at være glad, når man arbejder med det.

And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say,

Og som alle disse succesfulde og ansvarlige direktører siger,

you can't have just one of these things be successful

så kan man ikke kun have en af de ting og være succesfuld,

hvis man vil have et meningsfyldt og succesfuldt job.

if you want a meaningful and successful job.

Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed.

Anita Roddick er en anden af de direktører som vi interviewede.

She is the founder of Body Shop,

Hun er grundlæggeren af Body Shop,

kongen af naturlig kosmetik.

the natural cosmetics king.

It's kind of a passion that comes

Det er en slags passion, der kommer af at gøre sit bedste

from doing the best and having flow while you're working.

og opleve flow mens man arbejder.

This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka,

Dette er er et interessant lille citat fra Masaru Ibuka,

who was at that time starting out Sony without any money,

som på den tid startede Sony uden nogen penge,

uden et produkt - de havde ikke noget produkt,

without a product -- they didn't have a product,

they didn't have anything, but they had an idea.

de havde ingenting, men de havde en ide.

And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers

Og den idé han havde var at etablere en arbejdsplads,

hvor ingeniører kan opnå glæden ved teknologisk innovation,

can feel the joy of technological innovation,

be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content.

være opmærksom på deres mission i forhold til samfundet og arbejde til deres egen tilfredsstillelse.

I couldn't improve on this as a good example

Jeg kunne ikke selv komme med et bedre eksempel på,

of how flow enters the workplace.

hvordan "flow" optræder på en arbejdsplads.

Now, when we do studies --

Når vi laver undersøgelser -

we have, with other colleagues around the world,

vi har sammen med kollegaer rundt om i verden,

done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks,

foretaget over 8.000 interviews med personer - fra dominikanske munke,

to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds --

til blinde nonner, til himalaya-bjergbestigere, til Navajo-hyrder -

who enjoy their work.

der nyder deres arbejde.

And regardless of the culture,

Og uanset kulturen,

regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions

uanset uddannelse eller noget andet, så er der disse syv betingelser,

that seem to be there when a person is in flow.

der er til stede, når en person har følelsen af flow.

There's this focus that, once it becomes intense,

Der er dette fokus, der når det bliver intenst,

leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity:

fører til en form for ekstase, en form for klarsyn:

you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other;

man ved præcis hvad man vil gøre fra det ene øjeblik til det næste;

you get immediate feedback.

man får øjeblikkelig feedback.

You know that what you need to do

Man ved, at det man skal gøre

is possible to do, even though difficult,

er muligt at gøre, selvom det er svært,

and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself,

og fornemmelsen for tid forsvinder, man glemmer sig selv,

you feel part of something larger.

man føler sig som en del af noget større.

And once the conditions are present,

Og når disse betingelser er til stede,

what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.

så bliver det man laver værd at gøre for dets egen skyld.

In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme.

I vores studier kan vi vise folks dagligdag ud fra dette simple skema.

And we can measure this very precisely, actually,

Og vi kan faktisk måle dette ganske præcist,

because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day,

fordi vi giver folk elektroniske personsøgere, der går i gang ti gange om dagen,

and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel,

og når de går i gang, så fortæller man, hvad man laver, hvordan man har det,

where you are, what you're thinking about.

hvor man er og hvad man tænker på.

And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge

To ting som vi måler er opfattelsen af udfordringens størrelse

people experience at that moment and the amount of skill

i det øjeblik og den påkrævede mængde evner,

that they feel they have at that moment.

som de føler de besidder i det øjeblik.

So for each person we can establish an average,

Så for hver person kan vi fastsætte et gennemsnit,

which is the center of the diagram.

der udgør midten af diagrammet.

That would be your mean level of challenge and skill,

Det vil være ens gennemsnitlige udfordringer og evner,

which will be different from that of anybody else.

der vil være forskellige fra alle andres.

But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.

Men man har et udgangspunkt her, der vil være i midten.

If we know what that set point is,

Hvis vi ved hvad det udgangspunkt er,

we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow,

kan vi med med nogenlunde nøjagtighed forudsige, hvornår man vil opleve flow

and it will be when your challenges are higher than average

og det er når udfordringerne er større end gennemsnittet

and skills are higher than average.

og evnerne er større end gennemsnittet.

And you may be doing things very differently from other people,

Og du gør måske tingene meget forskellige i forhold til andre,

but for everyone that flow channel, that area there,

men for alle mennesker så vil den flow-kanal, det område her,

will be when you are doing what you really like to do --

forekomme, når man foretager sig noget man virkelig godt kan lide at lave -

play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work,

spille klaver, være sammen med ens bedste ven, muligvis arbejde,

if work is what provides flow for you.

hvis arbejde er det, der giver en flow.

And then the other areas become less and less positive.

Og de andre områder bliver mindre og mindre positive.

Arousal is still good because you are over-challenged there.

Ophidselse er stadigvæk godt, fordi man er overudfordret her.

Ens evner er ikke helt så høje som de burde være,

Your skills are not quite as high as they should be,

but you can move into flow fairly easily

men man kan opleve flow ganske nemt

by just developing a little more skill.

ved bare at udvikle sine evner lidt.

So, arousal is the area where most people learn from,

Ophidselse er således det område, hvor de fleste mennesker lærer noget,

because that's where they're pushed beyond their comfort zone

fordi det er her, hvor de er skubbet ud af deres komfort-zone

and to enter that -- going back to flow --

og for at komme tilbage i den - for at komme i flow -

then they develop higher skills.

er de nødt til at udvikle bedre evner.

Control is also a good place to be,

Kontrol er også et godt sted at være,

because there you feel comfortable, but not very excited.

fordi her føles det komfortabelt, men ikke specielt spændende.

It's not very challenging any more.

Det er ikke længere særligt udfordrende.

Og hvis man vil opnå flow fra kontrol,

And if you want to enter flow from control,

you have to increase the challenges.

er man nødt til at øge udfordringerne.

So those two are ideal and complementary areas

Så de her to områder er ideelle og komplementære,

from which flow is easy to go into.

hvorfra man let kan opnå flow.

The other combinations of challenge and skill

De andre kombinationer af udfordring og evner

become progressively less optimal.

bliver mindre og mindre optimale.

Relaxation is fine -- you still feel OK.

Afslapning er godt - her har man det fint.

Boredom begins to be very aversive

Kedsomhed begynder at blive generende.

and apathy becomes very negative:

og apati bliver meget negativt:

you don't feel that you're doing anything,

man føler ikke man foretager sig noget,

you don't use your skills, there's no challenge.

man benytter ikke sine evner, der er ingen udfordring.

Unfortunately, a lot of people's experience is in apathy.

Uheldigvis oplever mange mennesker apati.

The largest single contributor to that experience

Den største enkeltstående bidragsyder til den oplevelse

is watching television; the next one is being in the bathroom, sitting.

er at se TV, den næste er at sidde på badeværelse.

Even though sometimes watching television

Selvom det at se TV

about seven to eight percent of the time is in flow,

i syv til otte procent af tiden er i flow,

but that's when you choose a program you really want to watch

men det er, når man vælger at se et program, som man virkelig ønsker at se

and you get feedback from it.

og man får noget ud af.

So the question we are trying to address -- and I'm way over time --

Så det spørgsmål, som vi forsøger at finde svar på er - og jeg er for længst gået over tiden -

is how to put more and more of everyday life in that flow channel.

hvordan man kan gøre mere af hverdagen til en oplevelse af flow.

And that is the kind of challenge that we're trying to understand.

Og det er den udfordring som vi forsøger at forstå.

And some of you obviously know how to do that spontaneously

Og nogle af jer ved selvsagt, hvordan man gør det spontant

without any advice, but unfortunately a lot of people don't.

uden nogen former for råd, men desværre er det for mange ikke tilfældet.

And that's what our mandate is, in a way, to do.

Og det er dette, der på en måde er vores opgave.

Thank you.

Mange tak

(Applause)

(Klapsalver)