Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness

1,017,224 views ใƒป 2008-10-24

TED


ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืžืชืจื’ื: Dr. Eitan Eliram ืžื‘ืงืจ: Sigal Tifferet
00:12
I grew up in Europe, and World War II caught me
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ื’ื“ืœืชื™ ื‘ืื™ืจื•ืคื”, ื•ืžืœื—ืžืช ื”ืขื•ืœื ื”ืฉื ื™ื” ืชืคืกื” ืื•ืชื™
00:17
when I was between seven and 10 years old.
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ื›ืืฉืจ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ื’ื™ืœ ืฉื‘ื™ืŸ 7 ืœ 10 ืฉื ื™ื
00:21
And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew
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ื•ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ืขื“ ื›ืžื” ืžืขื˜ื™ื ืžื”ืžื‘ื•ื’ืจื™ื ืฉื”ื›ืจืชื™
00:28
were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them --
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ื”ื™ื• ืžืกื•ื’ืœื™ื ืœืขืžื•ื“ ื‘ื˜ืจื’ื“ื™ื•ืช ืฉื”ืžืœื—ืžื” ื”ื‘ื™ืื” ืขืœื™ื”ื
00:38
how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented,
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ื›ืžื” ืžืขื˜ ืžื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืžืกื•ื’ืœื™ื ื‘ื›ืœืœ ืœื“ืžื•ืช ื—ื™ื™ื ื ื•ืจืžืœื™ื™ื, ืžืจื•ืฆื™ื
00:46
satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security
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ืžืœืื™ ืกื™ืคื•ืง ื•ืฉืžื—ื” ืžืจื’ืข ืฉืขื‘ื•ื“ืชื, ื‘ื™ืชื ื•ื‘ื˜ื—ื•ื ื
00:55
was destroyed by the war.
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ื ื”ืจืกื• ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืžืœื—ืžื”
00:57
So I became interested in understanding
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ืื– ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื”ืชืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ื‘ื”ื‘ื ื”
01:00
what contributed to a life that was worth living.
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ืžื” ืชืจื ืœื—ื™ื™ื ืฉื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ื•ื” ืœื—ื™ื•ืช ืื•ืชื.
01:05
And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy
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ื•ื ื™ืกื™ืชื™ ื›ื™ืœื“, ื›ื‘ืŸ ืขืฉืจื”, ืœืงืจื•ื ืคื™ืœื•ืกื•ืคื™ื”
01:11
and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways
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ื•ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืขื•ืจื‘ ื‘ืืžื ื•ืช ื•ื“ืช ื•ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ืจื‘ื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช
01:19
that I could see as a possible answer to that question.
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ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœืจืื•ืช ื›ืชืฉื•ื‘ื” ืืคืฉืจื™ืช ืœืฉืืœื” ื”ื–ืืช
01:23
And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.
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ื•ื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ื ืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืขื ื”ืคืกื™ื›ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ื‘ืืงืจืื™.
01:32
I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money
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ืœืžืขืฉื” ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืืชืจ ืกืงื™ ื‘ืฉื•ื•ื™ืฅ ื‘ืœื™ ืฉื•ื ื›ืกืฃ
01:37
to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœืขื ื’ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™, ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืฉื”ืฉืœื’ ื ืžืก ื•ืœื ื”ื™ื”
01:45
I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the --
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ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืœื™ ื›ืกืฃ ืœืœื›ืช ืœืกืจื˜, ืื‘ืœ ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ืฉืขืœ ื”---
01:50
I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation
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ืงืจืืชื™ ื‘ืขื™ืชื•ื ื™ื ืฉืžืชื•ื›ื ื ืช ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื”ืจืฆืื”
01:55
by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich,
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ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืฉืจืื™ืชื™ ืฉื”ื•ื ื‘ืžืจื›ื– ืฆื™ืจื™ืš.
02:01
and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk.
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืื•ื“ื•ืช ืฆืœื—ื•ืช ืžืขื•ืคืคื•ืช ืžื” ืฉื”ื•ื ืขืžื“ ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœื™ื•.
02:07
And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies,
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ื•ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™,ื˜ื•ื‘, ื›ื™ื•ื•ืŸ ืฉืื™ื ื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืœื›ืช ืœืกืจื˜ื™ื
02:09
at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers.
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ืœื›ืœ ื”ืคื—ื•ืช ืืœืš ื‘ื—ื™ื ื ืœื”ืื–ื™ืŸ ืœืฆืœื—ื•ืช ืžืขื•ืคืคื•ืช.
02:15
And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting.
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ื•ื”ืื™ืฉ ืฉื“ื™ื‘ืจ ื‘ืื•ืชื” ื”ืจืฆืืช ืขืจื‘ ื”ื™ื” ืžืื•ื“ ืžืขื ื™ืŸ
02:24
Instead of talking about little green men,
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ื•ื–ื”--ื‘ืขืฆื ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืื ืฉื™ื ื™ืจื•ืงื™ื ืงื˜ื ื™ื
02:27
he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans
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ื”ื•ื ื“ื™ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืื™ืš ืฉื ืคืฉื ืฉืœ ื”ืื™ืจื•ืคืื™ื
02:32
had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting
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ื—ื•ื•ืชื” ื˜ืจืื•ืžื” ื‘ืฉืœ ื”ืžืœื—ืžื” ื•ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ื”ื ืžืฉืœื™ื›ื™ื
02:36
flying saucers into the sky.
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ืฆืœื—ื•ืช ืžืขื•ืคืคื•ืช ืœืชื•ืš ื”ืฉืžื™ื, ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ---
02:40
He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion
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ื”ื•ื ื“ื™ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืื™ืš ื”ืžื ื“ืœื•ืช ืฉืœ ื“ืช ื”ื”ื™ื ื“ื• ื”ืขืชื™ืงื”
02:45
were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain
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ื›ืื™ืœื• ื”ื•ืฉืœื›ื• ืืœ ืชื•ืš ื”ืฉืžื™ื ื›ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ืœื”ืฉื™ื‘ ืžื—ื“ืฉ
02:52
some sense of order after the chaos of war.
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ืกื•ื’ ืžืกื•ื™ื ืฉืœ ืกื“ืจ ืื—ืจื™ ื”ื›ืื•ืก ืฉืœ ื”ืžืœื—ืžื”
02:56
And this seemed very interesting to me.
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื ืจืื” ืžืื•ื“ ืžืขื ื™ืŸ ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœื™
02:59
And I started reading his books after that lecture.
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ื•ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœืงืจื•ื ืืช ืกืคืจื™ื• ืื—ืจื™ ื”ื”ืจืฆืื” ื”ื–ื•
03:02
And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืงืืจืœ ื™ื•ื ื’ ืฉืขืœ ืฉืžื• ืื• ืขื‘ื•ื“ืชื• ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืœื™ ื›ืœ ืžื•ืฉื’
03:10
Then I came to this country to study psychology
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ื•ืื– ื‘ืืชื™ ืœืžื“ื™ื ื” ื”ื–ืืช ืœืœืžื•ื“ ืคืกื™ื›ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื”
03:13
and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness.
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ื•ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื ืกื•ืช ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ืฉื•ืจืฉื™ ื”ืื•ืฉืจ.
03:20
This is a typical result that many people have presented,
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ื–ื•ื”ื™ ืชื•ืฆืื” ื˜ื™ืคื•ืกื™ืช ืฉื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืฆื™ื’ื•
03:25
and there are many variations on it.
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ื•ื™ืฉื ืŸ ื”ืจื‘ื” ื’ื™ืจืกืื•ืช ืขืœ ื›ืš.
03:28
But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื”, ืœืžืฉืœ, ืžืจืื” ืฉื› - 30% ืฉืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื
03:32
surveyed in the United States since 1956
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ืฉื ืกืงืจื• ื‘ืืจื”"ื‘ ืžืื– 1956
03:36
say that their life is very happy.
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ืื•ืžืจื™ื ืฉื—ื™ื™ื”ื ืžืื•ื“ ืžืื•ืฉืจื™ื.
03:40
And that hasn't changed at all.
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ื•ื–ื” ืœื ื”ืฉืชื ื” ื›ืœืœ
03:42
Whereas the personal income,
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ื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉื”ื”ื›ื ืกื” ื”ืื™ืฉื™ืช,
03:44
on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation,
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ืขืœ ืกื•ืœื ื”ืžื•ืชืื ืœื’ื•ื‘ื” ื”ืื™ื ืคืœืฆื™ื”,
03:50
has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period.
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ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื”ื•ื›ืคืœ, ื›ืžืขื˜ ืฉื•ืœืฉ, ื‘ืชืงื•ืคื” ื”ื–ื•.
03:54
But you find essentially the same results,
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ืื‘ืœ ืืชื ืžื•ืฆืื™ื ื‘ืขืฆื ืืช ืื•ืชืŸ ื”ืชื•ืฆืื•ืช
03:58
namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less
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ื›ืœื•ืžืจ, ืฉืื—ืจื™ ื ืงื•ื“ื” ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช ื”ืชื•ืืžืช ืคื—ื•ืช ืื• ื™ื•ืชืจ
04:03
to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level --
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ืœืืœืฃ ื“ื•ืœืจ ื‘ืขืจืš, ืžืขืœ ืงื• ื”ืขื•ื ื™ ื”ืžื™ื ื™ืžืœื™
04:07
increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are.
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ืชื•ืกืคื•ืช ื‘ืจื•ื•ื—ื” ื—ื•ืžืจื™ืช ืื™ื ืŸ ืžืฉืคื™ืขื•ืช ืขืœ ื›ืžื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืžื—ื™ื.
04:14
In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources,
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ื•ืœืžืขืฉื”, ืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžืฆื•ื ืฉื”ื™ืขื“ืจ ืฉืœ ืžืฉืื‘ื™ื ื‘ืกื™ืกื™ื
04:21
material resources, contributes to unhappiness,
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ืžืฉืื‘ื™ื ื—ื•ืžืจื™ื™ื, ืชื•ืจืžื™ื ืœื—ื•ืกืจ ืื•ืฉืจ.
04:24
but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.
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ืืš ื”ื’ื™ื“ื•ืœ ื‘ืžืฉืื‘ื™ื ื”ื—ื•ืžืจื™ื™ื ืœื ืžื’ื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ืื•ืฉืจ
04:30
So my research has been focused more on --
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ืื– ื”ืžื—ืงืจ ืฉืœื™ ื”ืชืžืงื“ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืขืœ---
04:35
after finding out these things that actually corresponded
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ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื ืžืฆืื• ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืœืœื• ืฉืื’ื‘ ืชื•ืืžื™ื
04:42
to my own experience, I tried to understand:
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ืœื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ื”ืื™ืฉื™ ืฉืœื™, ื ื™ืกื™ืชื™ ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืขื›ืฉื™ื•,
04:45
where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience --
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ืื™ืคื” ื‘ื—ื™ื™ ื”ื™ื•ืžื™ื•ื, ื‘ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ื”ื ื•ืจืžืœื™ืช ืฉืœื ื•,
04:51
do we feel really happy?
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ืื ื• ื—ืฉื™ื ื‘ืืžืช ืฉืžื—ื™ื.
04:54
And to start
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ื•ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืืช ื–ื”---
04:58
those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people --
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ื”ืžื—ืงืจื™ื ื”ืœืœื• ืœืคื ื™ 40 ืฉื ื”, ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื”ืชื‘ื•ื ืŸ ื‘ืื ืฉื™ื ื™ืฆื™ืจืชื™ื™ื
05:03
first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand
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ืงื•ื“ื ื›ืœ ืืžื ื™ื ื•ืžื“ืขื ื™ื ื•ื›ื™ื•"ื‘--ื‘ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ
05:09
what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life
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ืžื” ื’ืจื ืœื”ื ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ืฉื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืขืฆื ื›ื“ืื™ ืœื‘ืœื•ืช ืืช ื—ื™ื™ื”ื
05:19
doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune,
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ื‘ืขืฉื™ื™ืช ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืจื‘ื™ื ืžื”ื ืœื ืฆื™ืคื• ืžื”ื ืœืชื”ื™ืœื” ืื• ืœืžื–ืœ
05:25
but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.
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ืืš ืฉื”ืคื›ื• ืืช ื—ื™ื™ื”ื ืœืžืฉืžืขื•ืชื™ื™ื ื•ืจืื•ื™ื™ื.
05:30
This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s.
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืžืœื—ื™ื ื™ื ื”ืžื•ื‘ื™ืœื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ืžื•ืกื™ืงื” ื”ืืžืจื™ืงื ื™ืช ืื– ื‘ืฉื ื•ืช ื” 70
05:36
And the interview was 40 pages long.
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ื•ื”ืจืื™ื•ืŸ ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืื•ืจืš ืฉืœ 40 ื“ืคื™ื
05:39
But this little excerpt is a very good summary
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ืืš ื”ืžื™ืงื˜ืข ื”ื–ื” ื”ื•ื ืกื™ื›ื•ื ื˜ื•ื‘ ืžืื•ื“
05:43
of what he was saying during the interview.
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ืฉืœ ืžื” ืฉื”ื•ื ืืžืจ ื‘ืžืฉืš ื”ืจืื™ื•ืŸ
05:47
And it describes how he feels when composing is going well.
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ื•ื–ื” ืžืชืืจ ืื™ืš ื”ื•ื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื›ืฉื”ื”ืœื—ื ื” ื”ื•ืœื›ืช ื˜ื•ื‘
05:52
And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืื•ืžืจ, ื‘ืชืืจื• ืืช ื–ื” ื›ืžืฆื‘ ืืงืกื˜ื˜ื™
05:56
Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ืืงืกื˜ื–ื” ื‘ื™ื•ื•ื ื™ืช ืžืฉืžืขื”
05:58
simply to stand to the side of something.
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ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืœืขืžื•ื“ ืœืฆื“ื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ืžื”
06:01
And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state
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ื•ืื– ื–ื” ื”ืคืš ื‘ืขืฆื ืœืื ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ืœืžืฆื‘ ืžื ื˜ืœื™
06:08
where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines.
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ื‘ื• ืืชื” ื—ืฉ ืฉืื™ื ืš ืขื•ืฉื” ืืช ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ื™ื•ืžื™ื•ืžื™ื™ื ื”ืฉื’ืจืชื™ื™ื ืฉืœืš
06:14
So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality.
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ืื– ืืงืกื˜ื–ื” ื–ื” ื‘ืขืฆื ื›ื ื™ืกื” ืœืžืฆื™ืื•ืช ื—ืœื•ืคื™ืช
06:20
And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about
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ื•ื–ื” ืžืขื ื™ืŸ ืื ืืชื ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ืขืœ ื–ื”, ืื™ืš ื›ืืฉืจ ืื ื• ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ืขืœ
06:25
the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement --
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ื”ืชืจื‘ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžืชื‘ื•ื ื ื™ื ืขืœื™ื”ืŸ ื›ืคืกื’ื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ื™ืฉื’ื™ ื”ืื ื•ืฉื•ืช
06:31
whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization,
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ื‘ืŸ ืื ื–ื• ืกื™ืŸ, ื™ื•ื•ืŸ, ืชืจื‘ื•ืช ื”ื”ื™ื ื“ื•,
06:36
or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them
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ืื• ื”ืžืื™ื”, ืื• ื”ืžืฆืจื™ื---ืžื” ืฉื™ื“ื•ืข ืœื ื• ืขืœื™ื”ื
06:41
is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life.
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ื–ื” ื‘ืืžืช ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ืืงืกื˜ื–ื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื, ืœื ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื—ื™ื™ ื”ื™ื•ืžื™ื•ื ืฉืœื”ื.
06:46
We know the temples they built, where people could come
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ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืขืœ ื”ืžืงื“ืฉื™ื ืฉื”ื ื‘ื ื•, ืื–---ืžืงื•ื ืฉืืœื™ื• ืื ืฉื™ื ื™ื›ืœื• ืœื‘ื•ื
06:49
to experience a different reality.
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ืœื—ื•ื•ืช ืžืฆื™ืื•ืช ืื—ืจืช
06:51
We know about the circuses,
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ืื ื• ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ืงื™ืจืงืกื™ื
06:54
the arenas, the theaters.
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ื”ืืจื ื•ืช ื•ื”ืชื™ืื˜ืจืื•ืช
06:57
These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went
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ืืœื” ื”ื ืฉืจื™ื“ื™ ื”ืชืจื‘ื•ื™ื•ืช ื•ื”ื ื”ืžืงื•ืžื•ืช ืฉืืœื™ื”ื ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืœื›ื•
07:05
to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.
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ืœื—ื•ื•ืช ื—ื™ื™ื ื‘ื“ืจืš ื™ื•ืชืจ ืชืžืฆื™ืชื™ืช ื•ืžืกื•ื“ืจืช.
07:14
Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this,
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื”ืื™ืฉ ื”ื–ื” ืœื ืฆืจื™ืš ืœืœื›ืช ืœืžืงื•ื ื›ืžื• ื–ื”
07:18
which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built
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ืฉื–ื” ื’ื ื›ืŸ---ื”ืžืงื•ื ื”ื–ื”, ื”ืืจื ื” ื”ื–ื•, ืฉื‘ื ื•ื™ื”
07:22
like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also.
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ื›ืžื• ืืžืคื™ืชื™ืื˜ืจื•ืŸ ื™ื•ื•ื ื™, ื”ื™ื ื’ื ื›ืŸ ืžืงื•ื ืœืืงืกื˜ื–ื”.
07:26
We are participating in a reality that is different
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืžืฉืชืชืคื™ื ื‘ืžืฆื™ืื•ืช ืฉื”ื™ื ืฉื•ื ื”
07:30
from that of the everyday life that we're used to.
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ืžื–ื• ืฉืœ ื—ื™ื™ ื”ื™ื•ืžื™ื•ื ืฉืื ื• ืจื’ื™ืœื™ื ืืœื™ื”.
07:33
But this man doesn't need to go there.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืื™ืฉ ื”ื–ื” ืื™ื ื ื• ืฆืจื™ืš ืœืœื›ืช ืœืฉื.
07:36
He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks,
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ื”ื•ื ื–ืงื•ืง ืจืง ืœื—ืชื™ื›ืช ื ื™ื™ืจ ื‘ื” ื™ื•ื›ืœ ืœืจืฉื•ื ืกื™ืžื ื™ื ืงื˜ื ื™ื
07:42
and as he does that, he can imagine sounds
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ื•ื›ืืฉืจ ื”ื•ื ืขื•ืฉื” ื–ืืช ื”ื•ื ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื“ืžื™ื™ืŸ ืงื•ืœื•ืช
07:48
that had not existed before in that particular combination.
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ืฉืœื ื”ื™ื• ืงื™ืžื™ื ืœืคื ื™ ื›ืŸ ื‘ืชืฆื•ืจื” ื”ืกืคืฆื™ืคื™ืช ื”ื–ืืช
07:52
So once he gets to that point of beginning to create,
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ืื– ื‘ืจื’ืข ืฉื”ื•ื ืžื’ื™ืข ืœื ืงื•ื“ื” ื”ื–ื• ืฉืœ ื”ืชื—ืœืช ื”ื™ืฆื™ืจื”---
07:58
like Jennifer did in her improvisation,
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ื›ืžื• ืฉื’'ื ื™ืคืจ ืขืฉืชื” ื‘ืื™ืžืคืจื•ื‘ื™ื–ืฆื™ื” ืฉืœื”--
08:01
a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy --
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ืžืฆื™ืื•ืช ื—ื“ืฉื”, ื–ื”ื• ืจื’ืข ืฉืœ ืืงืกื˜ื–ื”.
08:06
he enters that different reality.
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ื”ื•ื ื ื›ื ืก ืœืชื•ืš ืื•ืชื” ืžืฆื™ืื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื”.
08:09
Now he says also that this is so intense an experience
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื”ื•ื ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื–ื• ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ื›ืœ ื›ืš ืื™ื ื˜ื ืกื™ื‘ื™ืช
08:13
that it feels almost as if he didn't exist.
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ืฉื–ื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื›ืื™ืœื• ื”ื•ื ืœื ืงื™ื™ื ื›ืœืœ.
08:16
And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration.
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ื•ื–ื” ื ืฉืžืข ื›ืžื• ื”ื’ื–ืžื” ืจื•ืžื ื˜ื™ืช.
08:22
But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing
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ืืš ืœืžืขืฉื”, ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ืขืฆื‘ื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ืื™ื ื ื” ืžืกื•ื’ืœืช ืœืขื‘ื“
08:26
more than about 110 bits of information per second.
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ื™ื•ืชืจ ืž 110 ื‘ื™ื˜ื™ื ืฉืœ ืžื™ื“ืข ืœืฉื ื™ื”.
08:31
And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying,
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ื•ื›ื“ื™ ืœืฉืžื•ืข ืื•ืชื™ ื•ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืžื” ืื ื™ ืื•ืžืจ
08:35
you need to process about 60 bits per second.
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ืืชื ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœืขื‘ื“ ื› - 60 ื‘ื™ื˜ื™ื ืœืฉื ื™ื”
08:39
That's why you can't hear more than two people.
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ื–ื• ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ืฉืื™ื ื›ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืฉืžื•ืข ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืฉื ื™ ืื ืฉื™ื
08:42
You can't understand more than two people talking to you.
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ืื™ื ื›ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืฉื ื™ ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืืœื™ื›ื.
08:45
Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process
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ื˜ื•ื‘, ื›ืืฉืจ ืืชื ื‘ืืžืช ืžืขื•ืจื‘ื™ื ื‘ืชื”ืœื™ืš ืžืจืชืง ืœื—ืœื•ื˜ื™ืŸ
08:56
of creating something new, as this man is,
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ืฉืœ ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ื“ื‘ืจ ืžื” ื—ื“ืฉ, ื›ืžื• ืฉื”ืื™ืฉ ื”ื–ื” ืขื•ืฉื”,
08:59
he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor
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ืœื ื ืฉืืจ ืœื• ืขื•ื“ืฃ ืงืฉื‘ ืœื ื˜ืจ
09:05
how his body feels, or his problems at home.
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ืืช ืื™ืš ืฉื”ื’ื•ืฃ ืฉืœื• ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ, ืื• ื‘ืขื™ื•ืชื™ื• ื‘ื‘ื™ืช.
09:09
He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired.
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ื”ื•ื ืื™ื ื• ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืืคื™ืœื• ืื ื”ื•ื ืจืขื‘ ืื• ืขื™ื™ืฃ.
09:12
His body disappears,
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ื”ื’ื•ืฃ ืฉืœื• ื ืขืœื
09:15
his identity disappears from his consciousness,
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ื”ื–ื”ื•ืช ืฉืœื• ื ืขืœืžืช ืžื”ืžื•ื“ืขื•ืช ืฉืœื•.
09:20
because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do,
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœื• ื“ื™ ืงืฉื‘, ื›ืžื• ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืžืื™ืชื ื•,
09:24
to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration,
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ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืฉื”ื• ื”ื™ื˜ื‘, ืฉื“ื•ืจืฉ ืจื™ื›ื•ื– ืจื‘
09:30
and at the same time to feel that he exists.
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ื•ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื–ืžืŸ ืœื—ื•ืฉ ืฉื”ื•ื ืงื™ื™ื
09:32
So existence is temporarily suspended.
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ืื– ื”ืงื™ื•ื ืžื•ืฉื”ื” ื–ืžื ื™ืช
09:37
And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื ื“ืžื” ืฉื™ื“ื• ื ืขื” ืžืืœื™ื”
09:43
Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ืื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ืชื‘ื•ื ืŸ ืขืœ ื”ื™ื“ ืฉืœื™ ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉื‘ื•ืขื™ื™ื ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ืืจื’ื™ืฉ
09:51
any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)
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ืฉื•ื ืชื—ื•ืฉืช ื”ืชืคืขืžื•ืช ืื• ืงืกื, ืžืฉื•ื ืฉืื™ื ื ื™ ืžืกื•ื’ืœ ืœื”ืœื—ื™ืŸ.
09:55
So what it's telling you here
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ืื– ืžื” ืฉื–ื” ืื•ืžืจ ืœื ื• ื›ืืŸ,
09:57
is that obviously this automatic,
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ืืš ื‘ื—ืœืงื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ืจืื™ื•ืŸ, ื–ื” ืฉื–ื” ื‘ื‘ื™ืจื•ืจ ืื•ื˜ื•ืžื˜ื™,
10:04
spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone
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ืชื”ืœื™ืš ืกืคื•ื ื˜ื ื™ ืฉื”ื•ื ืžืชืืจ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืงืจื•ืช ืืš ื•ืจืง ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื•
10:09
who is very well trained and who has developed technique.
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ืฉื”ื•ื ืžืื•ืžืŸ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ื•ืฉืคื™ืชื— ื˜ื›ื ื™ืงื”
10:13
And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity
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ื•ื–ื• ื”ืคื›ื” ืœืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ืืžื™ืชื” ื‘ื—ืงืจ ื”ื™ืฆื™ืจืชื™ื•ืช
10:20
that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years
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ืฉืื™ื ืš ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื™ืฆื•ืจ ื“ื‘ืจ ื‘ืคื—ื•ืช ืžืขืฉืจ ืฉื ื™ื
10:25
of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field.
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ืฉืœ ื”ื˜ืžืขืช ื™ื“ืข ื˜ื›ื ื™ ื‘ืฉื“ื” ืžืกื•ื™ื™ื.
10:31
Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long
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ื‘ื™ืŸ ืื ื–ื• ืžืชื™ืžื˜ื™ืงื” ืื• ืžื•ืกื™ืงื”--- ื–ื” ืœื•ืงื— ืืช ืื•ืจืš ื”ื–ืžืŸ
10:36
to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better
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ืขื“ ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืœืฉื ื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจ ืžื” ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžืฉื•ืคืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ
10:44
than what was there before.
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ืžืžื” ืฉื”ื™ื” ืฉื ืงื•ื“ื ืœื›ืŸ.
10:47
Now, when that happens,
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื›ืืฉืจ ื–ื” ืงื•ืจื”
10:49
he says the music just flows out.
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ื”ื•ื ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื”ืžื•ืกื™ืงื” ืคืฉื•ื˜ ื–ื•ืจืžืช ืžืืœื™ื”.
10:51
And because all of these people I started interviewing --
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ื•ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื›ืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืœืœื• ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœืจืื™ื™ืŸ---
10:55
this was an interview which is over 30 years old --
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืจืื™ื•ืŸ ืฉื”ื•ื ื‘ืŸ ืœืžืขืœื” ืž 30 ืฉื ื”--
11:01
so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow
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ื›ืœ ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืชื™ืืจื• ื–ืืช ื›ื–ืจื™ืžื” ืกืคื•ื ื˜ื ื™ืช
11:05
that I called this type of experience the "flow experience."
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ืฉื›ื™ื ื™ืชื™ ืืช ืกื•ื’ ื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ื”ื–ื• "ื—ื•ื•ื™ืช ื”ื–ืจื™ืžื”"
11:10
And it happens in different realms.
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ื•ื”ื™ื ืžืชืจื—ืฉืช ื‘ืžืชื—ืžื™ื ืฉื•ื ื™ื
11:13
For instance, a poet describes it in this form.
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ืœื“ื•ื’ืžื, ืžืฉื•ืจืจ ืžืชืืจ ื–ืืช ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ื”ื‘ืื”
11:17
This is by a student of mine who interviewed
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ื–ื” ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืกื˜ื•ื“ื ื˜ ืฉืœื™ ืฉืจืื™ื™ืŸ
11:20
some of the leading writers and poets in the United States.
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ื›ืžื” ืžื”ืกื•ืคืจื™ื ื•ื”ืžืฉื•ืจืจื™ื ื”ืžื•ื‘ื™ืœื™ื ื‘ืืจื”"ื‘
11:23
And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling
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ื•ื–ื” ืžืชืืจ ืืช ืื•ืชื” ืชื—ื•ืฉื” ื—ืกืจืช ืžืืžืฅ ื•ืกืคื•ื ื˜ื ื™ืช
11:29
that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state.
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ืฉืืชื ืžืงื‘ืœื™ื ื›ืืฉืจ ืืชื ื ื›ื ืกื™ื ืœืชื•ืš ื”ืžืฆื‘ ื”ืืงืกื˜ื˜ื™ ื”ื–ื”.
11:32
This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky --
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ื”ืžืฉื•ืจืจ ื”ื–ื” ืžืชืืจ ืืช ื–ื” ื›ืคืชื™ื—ืช ื“ืœืช ืฉืžืจื—ืคืช ื’ื‘ื•ื” ื‘ืฉืžื™ื
11:37
a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave
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ืชื™ืื•ืจ ื“ื•ืžื” ืžืื•ื“ ืœืžื” ืฉืืœื‘ืจื˜ ืื™ื™ื ืฉื˜ื™ืŸ ื ืชืŸ
11:40
as to how he imagined the forces of relativity,
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ืœื’ื‘ื™ ืื™ืš ืฉื”ื•ื ื“ืžื™ื™ืŸ ืืช ื›ื•ื—ื•ืช ื”ื™ื—ืกื™ื•ืช
11:46
when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked.
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ื›ืืฉืจ ื”ื•ื ื ืื‘ืง ืขื ื”ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ื›ื™ืฆื“ ื–ื” ืขื‘ื“.
11:50
But it happens in other activities.
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ืงื•ืจื” ื‘ืคืขื™ืœื•ื™ื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช
11:55
For instance, this is another student of mine,
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ืœืžืฉืœ, ื–ื•ื”ื™ ืกื˜ื•ื“ื ื˜ื™ืช ื ื•ืกืคืช ืฉืœื™,
11:57
Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work
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ืกื•ื–ืŸ ื’'ืงืกื•ืŸ ืžืื•ืกื˜ืจืœื™ื”, ืฉืขืฉืชื” ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”
12:01
with some of the leading athletes in the world.
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ืขื ื›ืžื” ืžื”ืืชืœื˜ื™ื ื”ืžื•ื‘ื™ืœื™ื ื‘ืขื•ืœื.
12:05
And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater,
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ื•ืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ื›ืืŸ ื‘ืชื™ืื•ืจ ืฉืœ ืžื—ืœื™ืง ืื•ืœื™ืžืคื™,
12:09
the same essential description of the phenomenology
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ืื•ืชื• ืชื™ืื•ืจ ืžื”ื•ืชื™ ืฉืœ ื”ืคื ื•ืžื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื”
12:12
of the inner state of the person.
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ืฉืœ ื”ืžืฆื‘ ื”ืคื ื™ืžื™ ืฉืœ ื”ืื“ื
12:14
You don't think; it goes automatically,
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ืืชื” ืœื ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉื–ื” ืงื•ืจื” ืื•ื˜ื•ืžื˜ื™ืช
12:17
if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.
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ืื ืืชื” ืžืชืžื–ื’ ืขื ื”ืžื•ืกื™ืงื” ื•ื›ื™ื•"ื‘
12:21
It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote,
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ื–ื” ืงื•ืจื” ื’ื ื›ืŸ, ืœืžืขืฉื”, ื‘ืกืคืจ ื”ืื—ืจื•ืŸ ืฉื›ืชื‘ืชื™
12:25
called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs
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ืฉื ืงืจื "ืขืกืงื™ื ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื" ื‘ื• ืจืื™ื™ื ืชื™ ื›ืžื” ืžื”ืžื ื›"ืœื™ื
12:28
who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful
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ืฉื”ื•ืžืœืฆื• ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืขืžื™ืชื™ื”ื ื›ืžืื•ื“ ืžืฆืœื™ื—ื™ื
12:33
and very ethical, very socially responsible.
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ืžืื•ื“ ืืชื™ื™ื ื•ืžืื•ื“ ืื—ืจืื™ื ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ืช
12:36
You see that these people define success
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ืืชื” ืจื•ืื” ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ืืœื” ืžื’ื“ื™ืจื™ื ื”ืฆืœื—ื”
12:40
as something that helps others and at the same time
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ื›ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืขื•ื–ืจ ืœืื—ืจื™ื ื•ื‘ื• ื–ืžื ื™ืช
12:45
makes you feel happy as you are working at it.
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ื’ื•ืจื ืœืš ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ืฉืžื— ื›ืืฉืจ ืืชื” ืขื•ื‘ื“ ื‘ื–ื”.
12:48
And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say,
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ื•ื›ืžื• ื›ืœ ื”ืžื ื›"ืœื™ื ื”ืžืฆืœื™ื—ื™ื ื•ื”ืื—ืจืื™ื, ื ืืžืจ
12:55
you can't have just one of these things be successful
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ืื™ื ืš ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืฉืจืง ื“ื‘ืจ ืื—ื“ ืžื›ืœ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืœืœื• ื™ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ืฆืœื—
13:02
if you want a meaningful and successful job.
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ืื ืืชื” ืจื•ืฆื” ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื‘ืขืœืช ืžืฉืžืขื•ืช ื•ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืžื•ืฆืœื—ืช.
13:05
Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed.
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ืื ื™ื˜ื” ืจื•ื“ื™ืง ื”ื™ื ืื—ืช ืžืื•ืชื ืžื ื›"ืœื™ื ืฉืื•ืชื ืจืื™ื™ื ื•
13:10
She is the founder of Body Shop,
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ื”ื™ื ื”ืžื™ื™ืกื“ืช ืฉืœ ื‘ื•ื“ื™-ืฉื•ืค, ื”ืงื•ืกืžื˜ื™ืงื”
13:14
the natural cosmetics king.
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ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ืžืœืš ื”ืงื•ืกืžื˜ื™ืงื” ื”ื˜ื‘ืขื™ืช.
13:16
It's kind of a passion that comes
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ื–ื” ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ืชืฉื•ืงื” ืฉื‘ืื”
13:18
from doing the best and having flow while you're working.
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ืžืขืฉื™ื™ืช ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื˜ื•ื‘ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ื•ื—ื•ื•ื™ืช ื–ืจื™ืžื” ื‘ื–ืžืŸ ืฉืืชื” ืขื•ื‘ื“.
13:22
This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka,
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ื–ื”ื• ืฆื™ื˜ื•ื˜ ืงื˜ืŸ ื•ืžืขื ื™ืŸ ืžืžืืกืืจื• ืื™ื‘ื•ืงื”
13:26
who was at that time starting out Sony without any money,
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ืฉื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ื‘ื–ืžื ื• ืืช ืกื•ื ื™ ื‘ืœื™ ื›ืœ ื›ืกืฃ
13:31
without a product -- they didn't have a product,
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ื‘ืœื™ ืžื•ืฆืจ---ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื ืžื•ืฆืจ
13:33
they didn't have anything, but they had an idea.
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ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื ื›ืœื•ื, ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ
13:36
And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers
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ื•ื”ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ืฉื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ืงื™ื ืžืงื•ื ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืฉื‘ื• ืžื”ื ื“ืกื™ื
13:41
can feel the joy of technological innovation,
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ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื—ื•ืฉ ืืช ื”ืขื•ื ื’ ืฉืœ ื—ื“ืฉื ื•ืช ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ืช
13:45
be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content.
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ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื•ื“ืขื™ื ืœืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื ืœื—ื‘ืจื” ื•ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืœื—ืคืฅ ืœื™ื‘ื.
13:50
I couldn't improve on this as a good example
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ืื™ื ื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืชืช ื“ื•ื’ืžื ื˜ื•ื‘ื” ืžื–ื•
13:54
of how flow enters the workplace.
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ืœืื™ืš ืฉื–ืจื™ืžื” ื ื›ื ืกืช ืœืžืงื•ื ื”ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”.
13:57
Now, when we do studies --
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื›ืฉืื ื• ืขื•ืจื›ื™ื ืžื—ืงืจื™ื
14:00
we have, with other colleagues around the world,
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ื™ืฉ ืœื ื•, ืขื ืขืžื™ืชื™ื ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื
14:04
done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks,
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ืขืฉื™ื ื• ืœืžืขืœื” ืž 8000 ืจืื™ื•ื ื•ืช ืขื ืื ืฉื™ื - ืžื ื–ื™ืจื™ื ื“ื•ืžื™ื ื™ืงื ื™ื
14:09
to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds --
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ืขื“ ืœื ื–ื™ืจื•ืช ืขื•ื•ืจื•ืช, ืœืžื˜ืคืกื™ ื”ื”ื™ืžืืœืื™ื” ืœืจื•ืขื™ื ื‘ื ืื‘ื—ื•
14:16
who enjoy their work.
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ืฉื ื”ื ื™ื ืžืขื‘ื•ื“ืชื
14:18
And regardless of the culture,
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ื•ืœืœื ืงืฉืจ ืœืชืจื‘ื•ืช
14:20
regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions
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ืœืœื ืงืฉืจ ืœื—ื™ื ื•ืš ืื• ืžื” ืฉืœื ื™ื”ื™ื”, ื™ืฉื ื 7 ืชื ืื™ื
14:27
that seem to be there when a person is in flow.
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ืฉื ืจืื” ืฉื™ืฉื ื ื›ืืฉืจ ืื“ื ื ืžืฆื ื‘ื–ืจื™ืžื”.
14:31
There's this focus that, once it becomes intense,
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ื™ืฉ ืืช ื”ืžื™ืงื•ื“ ื”ื–ื” ืฉื‘ืจื’ืข ืฉื”ื•ื ื ืขืฉื” ืื™ื ื˜ื ืกื™ื‘ื™
14:35
leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity:
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ืžื•ื‘ื™ืœ ืœืชื—ื•ืฉืช ืืงืกื˜ื–ื”, ืชื—ื•ืฉืช ื‘ื”ื™ืจื•ืช,
14:39
you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other;
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ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ืžื” ืืชื” ืจื•ืฆื” ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืจื’ืข ืื—ื“ ืœืžืฉื ื”ื•
14:42
you get immediate feedback.
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ืืชื” ืžืงื‘ืœ ืžืฉื•ื‘ ืžื™ื™ื“ื™
14:44
You know that what you need to do
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ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข ืฉืžื” ืฉืขืœื™ืš ืœืขืฉื•ืช
14:46
is possible to do, even though difficult,
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ื”ื•ื ื‘ืจ ืขืฉื™ื™ื” ืœืžืจื•ืช ืฉื”ื•ื ืงืฉื”
14:49
and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself,
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ื•ืชื—ื•ืฉืช ื”ื–ืžืŸ ื ืขืœืžืช, ืืชื” ืฉื•ื›ื— ืืช ืขืฆืžืš
14:52
you feel part of something larger.
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ืืชื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื—ืœืง ืžืžืฉื”ื• ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ.
14:55
And once the conditions are present,
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ื•ื‘ืจื’ืข ืฉื”ืชื ืื™ื ื”ืœืœื• ืžืชืงื™ืžื™ื,
14:58
what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.
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ืžื” ืฉืืชื” ืขื•ืฉื” ื”ื•ืคืš ืœืจืื•ื™ ืœืขืฉื™ื™ื” ื‘ืคื ื™ ืขืฆืžื•.
15:03
In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme.
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ื‘ืžื—ืงืจื™ื ืฉืœื ื•, ืื ื—ื ื• ืžื™ื™ืฆื’ื™ื ืืช ื—ื™ื™ ื”ื™ื•ืžื™ื•ื ืฉืœ ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ืชืจืฉื™ื ื”ื–ื”.
15:09
And we can measure this very precisely, actually,
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžื“ื•ื“ ื–ืืช ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ืจื‘, ืœืžืขืฉื”,
15:13
because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day,
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ืžื›ื™ื•ื•ืŸ ืฉืื ื• ื ื•ืชื ื™ื ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืื™ืชื•ืจื™ื•ืช ืืœืงื˜ืจื•ื ื™ื•ืช ืฉืžืชืจื™ืขื•ืช 10 ืคืขืžื™ื ื‘ื™ื•ื.
15:17
and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel,
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ื•ื‘ืจื’ืข ืฉื”ืŸ ืžืชืจื™ืขื•ืช ืืชื” ืžืกืคืจ ืขืœ ืžื” ืฉืืชื” ืขื•ืฉื”, ืื™ืš ืืชื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ
15:22
where you are, what you're thinking about.
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ื”ื™ื›ืŸ ืืชื”, ืขืœ ืžื” ืืชื” ื—ื•ืฉื‘.
15:24
And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge
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ื•ืฉื ื™ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืื ื• ืžื•ื“ื“ื™ื ื”ื ืžื™ื“ืช ื”ืืชื’ืจ
15:27
people experience at that moment and the amount of skill
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ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ื—ื•ื•ื™ื ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื”ืจื’ืข ื•ืžื™ื“ืช ื”ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ืช
15:31
that they feel they have at that moment.
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ืฉื”ื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ื‘ืื•ืชื• ืจื’ืข.
15:34
So for each person we can establish an average,
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ืื– ืœื’ื‘ื™ ื›ืœ ืื“ื ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžืฆืข ืžืžื•ืฆืข
15:37
which is the center of the diagram.
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ืฉื–ื” ืžืจื›ื– ื”ื“ื™ืื’ืจืžื”
15:40
That would be your mean level of challenge and skill,
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ืฉืชื”ื™ื” ื”ืจืžื” ื”ืžืฉืžืขื•ืชื™ืช ืฉืœืš ืฉืœ ืืชื’ืจ ื•ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ืช
15:43
which will be different from that of anybody else.
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ืฉืชื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ื ื” ืžื–ื• ืฉืœ ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ืื—ืจ.
15:46
But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.
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ืื‘ืœ ื™ืฉ ืœืš ืฉื ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ื ืงื•ื“ืช ื”ื’ื“ืจื” ืฉืชื”ื™ื” ื‘ืืžืฆืข
15:51
If we know what that set point is,
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ืื ื ื“ืข ืžื”ื™ ืื•ืชื” ื ืงื•ื“ืช ื”ื’ื“ืจื”
15:53
we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow,
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ื ื•ื›ืœ ืœืฆืคื•ืช ืžืจืืฉ ื“ื™ ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ืžืชื™ ืชื”ื™ื” ื‘ื–ืจื™ืžื”
15:58
and it will be when your challenges are higher than average
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ื•ื–ื” ื™ื”ื™ื” ื›ืืฉืจ ื”ืืชื’ืจื™ื ืฉืœืš ื™ื”ื™ื• ืžืขืœ ื”ืžืžื•ืฆืข
16:01
and skills are higher than average.
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ื•ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช, ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื•ืช ืžืขืœ ื”ืžืžื•ืฆืข.
16:03
And you may be doing things very differently from other people,
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ื•ืืชื” ืขืฉื•ื™ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื‘ื“ืจืš ืฉื•ื ื” ืžืื ืฉื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื
16:07
but for everyone that flow channel, that area there,
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ืืš ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœ ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ืชืขืœืช ื”ื–ืจื™ืžื” ื”ื–ื•, ื”ืื–ื•ืจ ื”ื–ื” ืฉื
16:11
will be when you are doing what you really like to do --
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ืชื”ื™ื” ื›ืืฉืจ ืืชื” ืชืขืฉื” ืžื” ืฉืืชื” ื‘ืืžืช ืื•ื”ื‘ ืœืขืฉื•ืช---
16:15
play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work,
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ืœื ื’ืŸ ื‘ืคืกื ืชืจ, ืงืจื•ื‘ ืœื•ื•ื“ืื™, ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืขื ื”ื—ื‘ืจ ื”ื›ื™ ื˜ื•ื‘ ืฉืœืš, ืื•ืœื™ ืœืขื‘ื•ื“
16:21
if work is what provides flow for you.
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ืื ื”ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื”ื™ื ื–ื• ืฉืžืกืคืงืช ืœืš ื–ืจื™ืžื”.
16:25
And then the other areas become less and less positive.
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ื•ืื– ื”ืื–ื•ืจื™ื ื”ืื—ืจื™ื ื ืขืฉื™ื ื—ื™ื•ื‘ื™ื™ื ืคื—ื•ืช ื•ืคื—ื•ืช
16:29
Arousal is still good because you are over-challenged there.
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ืขื•ืจืจื•ืช ืขื“ื™ืŸ ื˜ื•ื‘ื” ื›ื™ ืืชื” ืžืื•ืชื’ืจ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉื
16:34
Your skills are not quite as high as they should be,
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ื”ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœืš ืื™ื ืŸ ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื•ืช ื›ืคื™ ืฉื”ื™ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื•ืช ืœื”ื™ื•ืช
16:36
but you can move into flow fairly easily
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ืื‘ืœ ืืชื” ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื ื•ืข ืœื–ืจื™ืžื” ื“ื™ ื‘ืงืœื•ืช
16:39
by just developing a little more skill.
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ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืคื™ืชื•ื— ืžืขื˜ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ืช
16:42
So, arousal is the area where most people learn from,
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ืื–, ืขื•ืจืจื•ืช ื–ื” ื”ืื–ื•ืจ ืฉื‘ื• ืจื•ื‘ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืœื•ืžื“ื™ื ืžืžื ื•,
16:46
because that's where they're pushed beyond their comfort zone
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉืฉื ื”ื ื ื“ื—ืคื™ื ืขืœ ืžืขื‘ืจ ืœืชื—ื•ื ื”ื ื•ื—ื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื
16:52
and to enter that -- going back to flow --
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ื•ื–ื” ืœื”ื™ื›ื ืก--- ืœื—ื–ื•ืจ ืœื–ืจื™ืžื”---
16:55
then they develop higher skills.
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ืื– ื”ื ืžืคืชื—ื™ื ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืžืฉื•ืคืจื•ืช
16:57
Control is also a good place to be,
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ืฉืœื™ื˜ื” ื–ื” ื’ื ืžืงื•ื ื˜ื•ื‘ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื•
17:01
because there you feel comfortable, but not very excited.
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ืžืฉื•ื ืฉืฉื ืืชื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื‘ื ื•ื—, ืื‘ืœ ืœื ืžืื•ื“ ืžืจื•ื’ืฉ.
17:05
It's not very challenging any more.
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ื–ื” ืœื ืžืืชื’ืจ ืžืื•ื“, ื™ื•ืชืจ.
17:08
And if you want to enter flow from control,
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ื•ืื ืืชื” ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ื™ื›ื ืก ืœื–ืจื™ืžื” ืžืฉืœื™ื˜ื”
17:10
you have to increase the challenges.
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ืขืœื™ืš ืœื”ื’ื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ืืชื’ืจื™ื
17:13
So those two are ideal and complementary areas
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ืื– ืืœื• ื”ื ืฉื ื™ ืชื—ื•ืžื™ื ืื™ื“ื™ืืœื™ื™ื ื•ืžืฉืœื™ืžื™ื
17:17
from which flow is easy to go into.
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ืฉืžื”ื ืงืœ ืœื”ื™ื›ื ืก ืœื–ืจื™ืžื”.
17:21
The other combinations of challenge and skill
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ื”ืฉื™ืœื•ื‘ ื”ืื—ืจ ืฉืœ ืืชื’ืจ ื•ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ืช
17:24
become progressively less optimal.
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ื ืขืฉื” ืคืจื•ื’ืจืกื™ื‘ื™ืช ืœืคื—ื•ืช ืื•ืคื˜ื™ืžืœื™.
17:27
Relaxation is fine -- you still feel OK.
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ื”ืจื’ืขื•ืช ื”ื™ื ื‘ืกื“ืจ---ืืชื” ืขื“ื™ืŸ ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื‘ืกื“ืจ.
17:29
Boredom begins to be very aversive
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ืฉื™ืขืžื•ื ืžืชื—ื™ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืจืชื™ืข
17:34
and apathy becomes very negative:
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ื•ืืคืื˜ื™ื” ื ืขืฉื™ืช ืžืื•ื“ ืฉืœื™ืœื™ืช
17:38
you don't feel that you're doing anything,
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ืื™ื ืš ื—ืฉ ืฉืืชื” ืขื•ืฉื” ืžืฉื”ื•.
17:42
you don't use your skills, there's no challenge.
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ืื™ื ืš ืžืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœืš, ืื™ืŸ ืืชื’ืจ.
17:44
Unfortunately, a lot of people's experience is in apathy.
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ืœืจื•ืข ื”ืžื–ืœ, ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื–ื” ื‘ืืคืื˜ื™ื”
17:49
The largest single contributor to that experience
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ื”ืชื•ืจื ื”ื‘ืœืขื“ื™ ื•ื”ืžืจื›ื–ื™ ืœื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ื”ื–ื•
17:56
is watching television; the next one is being in the bathroom, sitting.
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ื–ื” ืฆืคื™ื™ื” ื‘ื˜ืœื•ื™ื–ื™ื”, ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื‘ื ื–ื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืฉื™ืจื•ืชื™ื, ื™ืฉื™ื‘ื”.
18:02
Even though sometimes watching television
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ื•ืื–, ืœืžืจื•ืช ืฉืœืคืขืžื™ื ืฆืคื™ื™ื” ื‘ื˜ืœื•ื™ื–ื™ื”
18:08
about seven to eight percent of the time is in flow,
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ื‘ืขืจืš 7 ืื• 8 ืื—ื•ื–ื™ื ืžื”ื–ืžืŸ ื”ื™ื ื‘ื–ืจื™ืžื”
18:12
but that's when you choose a program you really want to watch
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ืืš ื–ื” ืจืง ื›ืืฉืจ ืืชื” ื‘ื•ื—ืจ ื‘ืชื•ื›ื ื™ืช ืฉืืชื” ืžืžืฉ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœืจืื•ืช
18:15
and you get feedback from it.
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ื•ืืชื” ืžืงื‘ืœ ืžืฉื•ื‘ ืžื–ื”.
18:18
So the question we are trying to address -- and I'm way over time --
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ืื– ื”ืฉืืœื” ืฉืื™ืชื” ืื ื• ืžื ืกื™ื ืœื”ืชืžื•ื“ื“ ----ื•ืื ื™ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžืขื‘ืจ ืœื–ืžืŸ ---
18:24
is how to put more and more of everyday life in that flow channel.
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ื”ื™ื ื›ื™ืฆื“ ืœืฉื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ ื•ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื—ื™ื™ ื”ื™ื•ืžื™ื•ื ื‘ืชืขืœืช ื”ื–ืจื™ืžื”.
18:30
And that is the kind of challenge that we're trying to understand.
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ื•ื–ื”ื• ืกื•ื’ ื”ืืชื’ืจ ืฉืื ื• ืžื ืกื™ื ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ.
18:35
And some of you obviously know how to do that spontaneously
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ื•ื›ืžื” ืžื›ื ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžื•ื‘ืŸ ืžืืœื™ื• ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืื™ืš ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื–ืืช ืกืคื•ื ื˜ื ื™ืช
18:38
without any advice, but unfortunately a lot of people don't.
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ืœืœื ื›ืœ ืขืฆื”, ืืš ืœืจื•ืข ื”ืžื–ืœ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืœื.
18:42
And that's what our mandate is, in a way, to do.
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ื•ื–ื”ื• ื”ืžื ื“ื˜ ืฉืœื ื•, ื‘ื“ืจืš ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช, ืœืขืฉื•ืช. ื˜ื•ื‘.
18:48
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืœื›ื.
18:49
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื)
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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