Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness

Prevoditelj: Marijana Mijat Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

Odrastao sam u Europi, a Drugi svjetski rat me zahvatio

I grew up in Europe, and World War II caught me

u dobi od moje sedme do 10. godine.

when I was between seven and 10 years old.

Primijetio sam da se jako malo odraslih ljudi koje sam poznavao

And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew

znalo nositi s ratnim tragedijama koje su ih obilježile --

were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them --

i da je samo mali broj njih mogao uspostaviti nešto nalik normalnom,

how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented,

zadovoljavajućem ili sretnom životu sad kad su im posao, dom ili sigurnost

satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security

uništeni u ratu.

was destroyed by the war.

Tako me počelo zanimati što je to

So I became interested in understanding

što čini naš život vrijednim življenja.

what contributed to a life that was worth living.

Pokušao sam, kad sam bio dijete i mladić, čitati filozofiju

And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy

i baviti se umjetnošću, religijom i ostalim stvarima

and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways

koje sam smatrao mogućim odgovorima na svoje pitanje.

that I could see as a possible answer to that question.

Konačno sam dospio i do psihologije, i to slučajno.

And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.

Bio sam u švicarskom skijalištu bez prebijene pare.

I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money

Htio sam se provoditi, ali snijeg se otopio i

to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and

nisam imao novca za odlazak u kino. No, otkrio sam da se na -

I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the --

Čitao sam u novinama da će netko održati prezentaciju

I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation

na mjestu koje sam vidio u središtu Züricha,

by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich,

i da će tema biti leteći tanjuri.

and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk.

Pomislio sam da, kad već ne mogu u kino,

And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies,

barem mogu ići besplatno slušati o letećim tanjurima.

at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers.

Čovjek koji je govorio na tom večernjem predavanju bio je vrlo zanimljiv.

And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting.

Umjesto da priča o malim zelenima,

Instead of talking about little green men,

on je pričao o tome kako je rat traumatizirao psihu Europljana

he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans

i da zato sad viđaju

had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting

leteće tanjure po nebu.

flying saucers into the sky.

Govorio je kako su mandale iz drevnog hinduizma

He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion

na neki način projicirane na nebo u pokušaju da ljudi vrate

were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain

barem dio osjećaja smisla i reda nakon ratnoga kaosa.

some sense of order after the chaos of war.

To mi se učinilo jako zanimljivim

And this seemed very interesting to me.

i nakon predavanja sam počeo čitati njegove knjige.

And I started reading his books after that lecture.

Bio je to Carl Jung, čije ime i djela nisam dotad uopće poznavao.

And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.

Zatim sam došao ovamo studirati psihologiju

Then I came to this country to study psychology

i počeo sam raditi na razumijevanju izvora ljudske sreće.

and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness.

Ovdje je uobičajeni rezultat do kojega su došli brojni ljudi,

This is a typical result that many people have presented,

i postoje mnoge njegove verzije.

and there are many variations on it.

To, primjerice, pokazuje da oko 30 posto ljudi

But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people

ispitanika u SAD-u od 1956. godine

surveyed in the United States since 1956

tvrde da su jako sretni.

say that their life is very happy.

To se nimalo nije promijenilo.

And that hasn't changed at all.

S druge strane, osobni dohodak,

Whereas the personal income,

na skali koja je prilagođena da eliminira inflaciju,

on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation,

se više nego udvostručio, gotovo utrostručio, u istom razdoblju.

has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period.

Manje-više isti rezultati se ponavljaju,

But you find essentially the same results,

tj. potvrđuje se činjenica da nakon određene temeljne razine

namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less

-- otprilike samo par tisuća dolara iznad razine siromaštva --

to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level --

daljnje poboljšanje materijalnih uvjeta ne doprinosi našem osjećaju sreće.

increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are.

U biti, nedostatak osnovnih sredstava,

In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources,

materijalnih sredstava, doprinosi osjećaju nesreće,

material resources, contributes to unhappiness,

ali povećanje materijalnih sredstava ne povećava sreću.

but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.

Svoje istraživanje sam usmjerio na --

So my research has been focused more on --

nakon što sam otkrio da se ovi rezultati slažu

after finding out these things that actually corresponded

s mojim iskustvom, pokušao sam shvatiti:

to my own experience, I tried to understand:

-- u svakodnevnom životu, u našem normalnom iskustvu --

where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience --

kada se osjećamo doista sretnima?

do we feel really happy?

Na početku

And to start

tih istraživanja prije 40-ak godina, počeo sam proučavati kreativne ljude --

those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people --

najprije umjetnike i znanstvenike, i druge -- pokušavajući razumjeti

first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand

što im to daje osjećaj da je vrijedno provesti život

what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life

u aktivnostima za koje velik broj njih ne očekuje ni slavu, ni bogatstvo,

doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune,

ali koje im čine život smislenim i vrijedne su truda.

but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.

Ovo je jedan od vodećih skladatelja američke glazbe u 70-im godinama.

This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s.

Razgovor je 40 stranica dug.

And the interview was 40 pages long.

Ali ovaj mali dio je vrlo dobar sažetak

But this little excerpt is a very good summary

onoga što je govorio u intervjuu.

of what he was saying during the interview.

Opisuje kako se osjeća kad mu skladanje dobro ide.

And it describes how he feels when composing is going well.

I opisuje ga kao stanje ekstaze.

And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.

"Ekstaza" u grčkom označava

Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant

jednostavno stajanje pokraj nečega.

simply to stand to the side of something.

S vremenom je postalo sinonim za mentalno stanje

And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state

u kojem osjećaš da se ne baviš svojim uobičajenim dnevnim zadacima.

where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines.

Dakle, ekstaza je u biti ulazak u alternativnu stvarnost.

So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality.

Kad malo promisliš, zanimljivo je da kad mislimo na

And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about

civilizacije kojima se divimo zbog toga što su bile vrhunac ljudskog postignuća

the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement --

-- Kina, Grčka, Indija,

whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization,

ili Maje, ili Egipćani -- ono što o njima znamo

or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them

zapravo je znanje o njihovim ekstazama, ne o njihovoj svakodnevici.

is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life.

Znamo za hramove koje su izgradili, mjesta gdje su ljudi mogli

We know the temples they built, where people could come

iskusiti drugačiju stvarnost.

to experience a different reality.

Poznajemo njihove trgove,

We know about the circuses,

arene, kazališta.

the arenas, the theaters.

To su ostaci civilizacija i mjesta na koja su ljudi odlazili

These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went

kako bi osjetili život u sažetijem, sređenijem obliku.

to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.

Ovaj čovjek ne mora ići na mjesto poput ovog našeg,

Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this,

koje je također -- ovo mjesto, ova arena, izgrađena

which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built

u obliku grčkog amfiteatra, -- također mjesto ekstaze.

like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also.

Mi smo dio stvarnosti koja je drugačija

We are participating in a reality that is different

od svakodnevice na koju smo navikli.

from that of the everyday life that we're used to.

Ali ovaj čovjek ne treba ići tamo.

But this man doesn't need to go there.

On treba samo komad papira na koji će upisati male znakove,

He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks,

i dok to čini, može zamišljati zvukove

and as he does that, he can imagine sounds

koji ranije nisu postojali u toj kombinaciji.

that had not existed before in that particular combination.

I jednom kad dođe do točke početka stvaranja,

So once he gets to that point of beginning to create,

kao što je to napravila Jennifer u svojoj improvizaciji,

like Jennifer did in her improvisation,

jednoj novoj stvarnosti --- to je trenutak ekstaze ---

a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy --

on ulazi u to stanje drugačije stvarnosti.

he enters that different reality.

Kaže da je to stanje toliko intenzivno,

Now he says also that this is so intense an experience

da se čini gotovo kao da on sam u tom trenutku više ne postoji.

that it feels almost as if he didn't exist.

To zvuči kao neko romantično pretjerivanje.

And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration.

Ali zapravo, naš živčani sustav ne može preraditi

But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing

više od 110 bita informacije u sekundi.

more than about 110 bits of information per second.

Recimo, kako biste čuli i razumjeli ono što govorim,

And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying,

trebate preraditi oko 60 bita u sekundi.

you need to process about 60 bits per second.

Zbog toga ne možete čuti više od dvoje ljudi.

That's why you can't hear more than two people.

Ne možete razumjeti više od dvoje ljudi koji vam pričaju.

You can't understand more than two people talking to you.

A kad ste stvarno potpuno uvučeni u potpuno obuzimajući proces

Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process

stvaranja nečeg novog, kao što je to ovaj čovjek,

of creating something new, as this man is,

njemu ne preostaje više dovoljno pažnje za promatranje

he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor

kako se osjeća njegovo tijelo, ili koji su njegovi problemi kod kuće.

how his body feels, or his problems at home.

Ne može niti osjetiti je li gladan ili umoran.

He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired.

Njegovo tijelo nestaje,

His body disappears,

njegov identitet nestaje iz njegove svijesti,

his identity disappears from his consciousness,

jer nema dovoljno pažnje, kao ni bilo tko od nas,

because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do,

da stvarno odradi dobro nešto što zahtijeva puno koncentracije,

to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration,

i da istovremeno osjeća da on sam postoji.

and at the same time to feel that he exists.

I tako je postojanje privremeno na čekanju.

So existence is temporarily suspended.

On kaže da se čini kako mu ruka sama radi.

And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself.

Ja bih mogao gledati u svoju ruku dva tjedna, i svejedno ne bih osjetio

Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel

nikakvo čudo ili zapanjenost, jer ne znam skladati. (Smijeh)

any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)

To vam govori da

So what it's telling you here

je jasno kako se ovaj automatski,

is that obviously this automatic,

spontani proces koji opisuje može dogoditi samo nekome

spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone

tko je vrlo dobro uvježban i ima razvijenu tehniku.

who is very well trained and who has developed technique.

U proučavanju kreativnosti na neki se način podrazumijeva

And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity

da ne možeš biti stvaratelj bez barem 10 godina

that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years

tehničko-spoznajne udubljenosti u specifično područje.

of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field.

Bez obzira na to je li riječ o matematici ili glazbi, treba toliko vremena

Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long

da biste mogli početi mijenjati nešto na način da postane bolje

to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better

nego je bilo prije.

than what was there before.

Kad se to dogodi,

Now, when that happens,

on kaže da glazba sama poteče.

he says the music just flows out.

Zbog svih ovih ljudi koje sam počeo intervjuirati --

And because all of these people I started interviewing --

ovo je intervju star 30 godina --

this was an interview which is over 30 years old --

i mnogi od ispitanih ljudi opisali su to kao spontani tok (flow),

so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow

ja sam to iskustvo nazvao "iskustvom očaravajuće obuzetosti".

that I called this type of experience the "flow experience."

Ono se događa u raznim slučajevima.

And it happens in different realms.

Na primjer, pjesnik ga opisuje ovako.

For instance, a poet describes it in this form.

Ovo kaže moj student koji je intervjuirao

This is by a student of mine who interviewed

neke od vodećih pisaca i pjesnika u SAD-u.

some of the leading writers and poets in the United States.

Svi opisi spominju isti spontani osjećaj bez napora

And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling

koji se pojavljuje kad uđeš u stanje ekstaze.

that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state.

Ovaj pjesnik ga opisuje kao otvaranje vrata koja plutaju na nebu

This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky --

-- osjećaj sličan onome koji je opisao Albert Einstein

a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave

kad je zamišljao sile relativiteta,

as to how he imagined the forces of relativity,

dok se mučio pokušavajući razumjeti kako on djeluje.

when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked.

Ali taj osjećaj se događa i za vrijeme drugih aktivnosti.

But it happens in other activities.

Primjerice, druga moja studentica,

For instance, this is another student of mine,

Susan Jackson iz Australije, napravila je rad

Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work

s nekima od najboljih sportaša na svijetu.

with some of the leading athletes in the world.

Ovdje vidite u opisu olimpijske klizačice,

And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater,

isti temeljni opis fenomena

the same essential description of the phenomenology

unutarnjeg stanja osobe.

of the inner state of the person.

Ne razmišljaš; sve teče automatski,

You don't think; it goes automatically,

ako se spojiš sa glazbom, i tako dalje.

if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.

To se događa, također, kao što sam napisao u svojoj najnovijoj knjizi,

It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote,

"Good Business", u kojoj sam intervjuirao neke od direktora

called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs

koje njihovi kolege smatraju vrlo uspješnima

who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful

i etičnima, vrlo socijalno osjetljivima...

and very ethical, very socially responsible.

Vidite da ti ljudi definiraju uspjeh

You see that these people define success

kao nešto što pomaže drugima, a istovremeno

as something that helps others and at the same time

te čini sretnim dok se time baviš.

makes you feel happy as you are working at it.

Kao što svi ti uspješni i odgovorni direktori kažu,

And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say,

ne možeš imati samo jednu od tih stvari da bi bio uspješan,

you can't have just one of these things be successful

ako želiš smislen i uspješan posao.

if you want a meaningful and successful job.

Anita Roddick je jedna od direktorica s kojima smo razgovarali,

Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed.

osnivačica je Body Shopa,

She is the founder of Body Shop,

diva u području prirodne kozmetike.

the natural cosmetics king.

To je svojevrsna strast koja proizlazi

It's kind of a passion that comes

iz činjenice da daješ sve od sebe i osjećaš obuzetost dok radiš.

from doing the best and having flow while you're working.

Ovo je zanimljiv citat Masarua Ibuke,

This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka,

koji u vrijeme kad je osnivao Sony nije imao ni novca, ni proizvoda

who was at that time starting out Sony without any money,

--- nisu imali nijedan proizvod,

without a product -- they didn't have a product,

ništa, ali su imali ideju.

they didn't have anything, but they had an idea.

A ideja je bila da uspostave radna mjesta na kojima će inžinjeri

And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers

moći osjetiti radost tehnološke inovacije,

can feel the joy of technological innovation,

gdje će biti svjesni svoje uloge u društvu i raditi za vlastito zadovoljstvo.

be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content.

Ne mogu dati bolji primjer

I couldn't improve on this as a good example

za prikaz kako obuzetost funkcionira na radnom mjestu.

of how flow enters the workplace.

Kad provodimo istraživanja --

Now, when we do studies --

s drugim kolegama diljem svijeta

we have, with other colleagues around the world,

razgovarali smo s više od 8,000 ljudi -- od dominikanskih redovnika,

done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks,

slijepih opatica, planinara po Himalaji, do pastira iz plemena Navajo ---

to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds --

koji uživaju u svom poslu,

who enjoy their work.

i neovisno o kulturi,

And regardless of the culture,

obrazovanju ili bilo čemu drugom, pokazalo se da postoji sedam uvjeta

regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions

koji se čine bitnim za obuzetog čovjeka.

that seem to be there when a person is in flow.

Postoji usredotočenost (1) koja, jednom kad postane snažna,

There's this focus that, once it becomes intense,

vodi u stanje ekstaze (2), stanje jasnoće (3),

leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity:

znaš točno što želiš raditi iz trenutka u trenutak:

you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other;

dobivaš trenutačnu povratnu informaciju.

you get immediate feedback.

Znaš da je ono što trebaš napraviti

You know that what you need to do

moguće, iako je teško (4),

is possible to do, even though difficult,

osjećaj vremena nestaje (6), zaboravljaš na sebe,

and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself,

osjećaš kao da si dio nečega većeg (5).

you feel part of something larger.

I jednom kad se steknu uvjeti,

And once the conditions are present,

ono što radiš postaje nagrada sama za sebe (7).

what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.

U našim istraživanjima, svakodnevni život prikazujemo kroz jednostavnu shemu.

In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme.

I zapravo sve možemo vrlo precizno izmjeriti,

And we can measure this very precisely, actually,

jer ljudima dajemo elektroničke pagere koji zazvone 10 puta dnevno,

because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day,

i na svaki taj alarm ljudi kažu što rade i kako se osjećaju,

and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel,

gdje su i o čemu razmišljaju.

where you are, what you're thinking about.

Dvije stvari koje mjerimo su: količina izazova

And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge

kojega ljudi doživljavaju u tom trenutku, te razvijenost vještina

people experience at that moment and the amount of skill

koje oni misle da imaju u tom trenutku.

that they feel they have at that moment.

Dakle, za svaku osobu možemo izračunati prosjek,

So for each person we can establish an average,

koji je središte slike.

which is the center of the diagram.

To je čovjekova srednja razina izazova i vještine,

That would be your mean level of challenge and skill,

koji je različita od bilo čije druge.

which will be different from that of anybody else.

Ali ovdje je neka vrsta ishodišta, koja bi bila u sredini.

But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.

Ako znamo kakva je ta točka,

If we know what that set point is,

možemo prilično točno predvidjeti kada će nastupiti obuzetost,

we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow,

a to će biti kada su izazovi veći od prosjeka

and it will be when your challenges are higher than average

i kad su vještine više od prosjeka.

and skills are higher than average.

Možete raditi stvari vrlo različito od drugih ljudi,

And you may be doing things very differently from other people,

ali za svakoga će se taj ulazak u obuzetost, ovo područje ovdje,

but for everyone that flow channel, that area there,

dogoditi kad radite ono što stvarno želite raditi --

will be when you are doing what you really like to do --

svirati klavir, biti sa svojim najboljim prijateljem, možda raditi,

play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work,

ako je rad ono što vam omogućuje obuzetost.

if work is what provides flow for you.

Ova druga područja postaju sve manje i manje pozitivna.

And then the other areas become less and less positive.

Uzbuđenje je još uvijek dobro područje, jer ste tamo pred velikim izazovima.

Arousal is still good because you are over-challenged there.

Iako vam vještine nisu dovoljno razvijene,

Your skills are not quite as high as they should be,

ali možete ući u obuzetost prilično lako

but you can move into flow fairly easily

malim dodatnim razvojem svojih vještina.

by just developing a little more skill.

Dakle, uzbuđenost je područje u kojem većina ljudi uči,

So, arousal is the area where most people learn from,

jer su tu izvan svoje zone udobnosti

because that's where they're pushed beyond their comfort zone

a da bi ušli ovamo -- vratili se u obuzetost --

and to enter that -- going back to flow --

trebaju razviti bolje vještine.

then they develop higher skills.

Kontrola je također dobro mjesto,

Control is also a good place to be,

zato što se osjećate ugodno, ali ne i vrlo uzbuđeno.

because there you feel comfortable, but not very excited.

To više nije jako zahtjevno.

It's not very challenging any more.

A ako želite ući u obuzetost iz kontrole,

And if you want to enter flow from control,

morate povećati izazove.

you have to increase the challenges.

Dakle, to su dva su idealna i komplementarna područja

So those two are ideal and complementary areas

iz kojih je lako ući u obuzetost.

from which flow is easy to go into.

Druge kombinacije izazova i vještine

The other combinations of challenge and skill

postaju sve manje optimalne.

become progressively less optimal.

Opuštenost je u redu -- još uvijek se osjećate OK.

Relaxation is fine -- you still feel OK.

Dosada počinje biti vrlo odbojna,

Boredom begins to be very aversive

a apatija postaje vrlo negativna:

and apathy becomes very negative:

ne osjećate da radite bilo što,

you don't feel that you're doing anything,

ne koristite svoje vještine, nema izazova.

you don't use your skills, there's no challenge.

Nažalost, puno ljudskog iskustva spada u apatiju.

Unfortunately, a lot of people's experience is in apathy.

Najveći pojedinačni doprinos tom iskustvu

The largest single contributor to that experience

je gledanje televizije; sljedeći je sjedenje u kupaonici.

is watching television; the next one is being in the bathroom, sitting.

Iako smo ponekad za vrijeme gledanja televizije

Even though sometimes watching television

oko sedam do osam posto vremena u obuzetosti,

about seven to eight percent of the time is in flow,

ali to je kad odaberemo program koji zaista želimo gledati

but that's when you choose a program you really want to watch

i kad dobijemo povratnu informaciju od njega.

and you get feedback from it.

Dakle, pitanje koje pokušavamo riješiti -- a ja sam prekoračio vrijeme --

So the question we are trying to address -- and I'm way over time --

je kako smjestiti što više svakodnevnog života u područje obuzetosti.

is how to put more and more of everyday life in that flow channel.

To je izazov koji pokušavamo razumjeti.

And that is the kind of challenge that we're trying to understand.

Neki od vas očito znaju kako se to radi, spontano

And some of you obviously know how to do that spontaneously

i bez savjeta, ali nažalost puno ljudi to ne zna.

without any advice, but unfortunately a lot of people don't.

A to je na neki način naša dužnost.

And that's what our mandate is, in a way, to do.

Hvala.

Thank you.

(Pljesak)

(Applause)