Madeleine Albright: On being a woman and a diplomat

Prevoditelj: Tilen Pigac - EFZG Recezent: Mislav Ante Omazić - EFZG

Pat Mitchell: What is the story of this pin?

Pat Mitchell: Koja je priča ovog broša?

Madeleine Albright: This is "Breaking the Glass Ceiling."

Madeleine Albright: Ovo je lomljenje staklenog stropa.

PM: Oh.

PM: Oh.

That was well chosen, I would say, for TEDWomen.

Ovo je vrlo dobro odabrano, rekla bih, za TEDWomen.

MA: Most of the time I spend when I get up in the morning

MA: Većinu vremena kada se ustajem ujutro

is trying to figure out what is going to happen.

provedem pokušavajući shvatiti što će se dogoditi.

And none of this pin stuff would have happened

I nijedna od ovih stvari s broševima se ne bi dogodila

if it hadn't been for Saddam Hussein.

da nije bilo Saddama Husseina.

I'll tell you what happened.

Reći ću vam što se dogodilo.

I went to the United Nations as an ambassador,

Krenula sam prema Ujedinjenim Narodima kao ambasadorica.

and it was after the Gulf War,

I to je bilo nakon Zaljevskog rata.

and I was an instructed ambassador.

A ja sam bila upućena ambasadorica.

And the cease-fire had been translated

Prekid vatre je bio preveden

into a series of sanctions resolutions,

u niz sankcijskih rezolucija

and my instructions

i moje upute

were to say perfectly terrible things about Saddam Hussein constantly,

su bile neprestano govoriti stvarno užasne stvari o Saddamu Husseinu,

which he deserved -- he had invaded another country.

što je on i zaslužio -- on je napao drugu zemlju.

And so all of a sudden, a poem appeared in the papers in Baghdad

I odjednom, pjesma se pojavila u novinama u Baghdadu

comparing me to many things,

uspoređujući me s mnogim stvarima,

but among them an "unparalleled serpent."

ali između ostaloga i s gujom.

And so I happened to have a snake pin.

A ja sam imala broš s likom zmije.

So I wore it when we talked about Iraq.

I nosila sam je kada smo pričali o Iraku.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And when I went out to meet the press,

I kada sam izašla na susret s novinarima,

they zeroed in, said, "Why are you wearing that snake pin?"

odmjerili su me rekavši, "Zašto nosite taj broš s likom zmije?"

I said, "Because Saddam Hussein compared me to an unparalleled serpent."

Odogovorila sam, "Zato što me Saddam Hussein usporedio s gujom".

And then I thought, well this is fun.

Tada sam pomislila kako je ovo zabavno.

So I went out and I bought a lot of pins

I izašla sam i kupila mnogo broševa

that would, in fact, reflect

koji bi zapravo pokazivali

what I thought we were going to do on any given day.

što sam mislila da ćemo raditi taj dan.

So that's how it all started.

I tako je sve to počelo.

PM: So how large is the collection?

PM: I koliko je kolekcija sada velika?

MA: Pretty big.

MA: Prilično velika.

It's now traveling.

Sada putuje.

At the moment it's in Indianapolis,

U ovom trenutku je u Indianapolisu,

but it was at the Smithsonian.

ali prije je bila u Smithsonianu.

And it goes with a book that says, "Read My Pins."

I u kompletu je s knjigom koja se zove, "Čitaj s mojih broševa".

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

PM: So is this a good idea.

PM: Je li to dobra ideja?

I remember when you were the first woman

Sjećam se kada ste bili prva žena

as Secretary of State,

kao državna tajnica

and there was a lot of conversation always

i bilo je uvijek dosta razgovora

about what you were wearing,

o tome što ste nosili,

how you looked --

kako ste izgledali --

the thing that happens to a lot of women,

stvari koje se događaju mnogim ženama,

especially if they're the first in a position.

naročito ako su prve na nekom položaju.

So how do you feel about that -- the whole --

Što mislite o svemu tome?

MA: Well, it's pretty irritating actually

MA: Pa, to je zapravo prilično iritantno

because nobody ever describes what a man is wearing.

zato što nitko nikada ne govori o tome što muškarac nosi.

But people did pay attention to what clothes I had.

Ali ljudi su obraćali pozornost na odjeću koju sam ja imala.

What was interesting was that,

Što je bilo zanimljivo je to da,

before I went up to New York as U.N. ambassador,

prije nego sam otišla u New York kao UN-ova ambasadorica,

I talked to Jeane Kirkpatrick, who'd been ambassador before me,

pričala sam s Jeane Kirkpatrick koja je bila ambasadorica prije mene

and she said, "You've got to get rid of your professor clothes.

i ona je rekla, "Moraš se riješiti svoje profesorske odjeće.

Go out and look like a diplomat."

Idi van i izgledaj kao diplomatkinja".

So that did give me a lot of opportunities to go shopping.

To mi je dalo dosta prilika da idem u kupovinu.

But still, there were all kinds of questions

Ali ipak, bilo je svih vrsta pitanja

about -- "did you wear a hat?" "How short was your skirt?"

kao, jesi li nosila šešir? Koliko je kratka tvoja suknja?

And one of the things --

I jedna od stvari --

if you remember Condoleezza Rice was at some event and she wore boots,

ako se sjećate kada je Condoleezza Rice jednom prigodom nosila čizme,

and she got criticized over that.

bila je kritizirana zbog toga.

And no guy ever gets criticized. But that's the least of it.

Nijedan muškarac nije nikada kritiziran. Ali to je najmanji dio toga.

PM: It is, for all of us, men and women,

PM: To je, za sve nas, muškarce i žene,

finding our ways of defining our roles,

traženje načina na koji definiramo naše uloge,

and doing them in ways that make a difference in the world

radeći s njima na način da učinimo razliku u svijetu

and shape the future.

i oblikujemo budućnost.

How did you handle that balance

Kako ste baratali tom ravnotežom

between being the tough diplomatic

između žilave diplomatkinje

and strong voice of this country

i snažnog glasa ove zemlje

to the rest of the world

ostatku svijeta

and also how you felt about yourself

i kako ste se osjećali kao

as a mother, a grandmother, nurturing ...

kao majka, kao baka.

and so how did you handle that?

I kako ste rukovali time?

MA: Well the interesting part was I was asked

MA: Bilo je zanimljivo kada su me pitali

what it was like to be the first woman Secretary of State

kako je biti prva ženska državna tajnica

a few minutes after I'd been named.

nekoliko minuta nakon što su me imenovali.

And I said, "Well I've been a woman for 60 years,

Ja sam odgovorila, "Pa, bila sam žena 60 godina,

but I've only been Secretary of State for a few minutes."

ali državna tajnica sam tek nekoliko minuta".

So it evolved.

Tako da je evoluiralo.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But basically I love being a woman.

Ali u osnovi, ja volim biti žena.

And so what happened --

I što se dogodilo --

and I think there will probably be some people in the audience

mislim kako će biti nekoliko ljudi u publici

that will identify with this --

koji će se prepoznati u ovome --

I went to my first meeting, first at the U.N.,

otišla sam na svoj prvi sastanak, prvo u UN.

and that's when this all started,

I tada je sve to počelo,

because that is a very male organization.

zato što je to organizacija puna muškaraca.

And I'm sitting there -- there are 15 members of the Security Council --

I ja sam sjedila tamo -- bilo je 15 članova Odbora za sigurnost --

so 14 men sat there staring at me,

i tako je 14 muškaraca sjedilo buljeći u mene

and I thought -- well you know how we all are.

i ja sam mislila -- znate kakvi smo svi mi.

You want to get the feeling of the room,

Želite se malo priviknuti na prostoriju

and "do people like me?"

i da vas ljudi zavole

and "will I really say something intelligent?"

i želite reći nešto inteligentno.

And all of a sudden I thought, "Well, wait a minute.

I samo odjednom sam se sjetila, pa čekaj malo.

I am sitting behind a sign that says 'The United States,'

Ja sjedima iza znaka na kojem piše "Sjedinjene Države".

and if I don't speak today

I ako ne progovorim danas,

then the voice of the United States will not be heard,"

tada se glas Sjedinjenih Država neće čuti.

and it was the first time that I had that feeling

I to je bilo prvi put da sam imala taj osjećaj

that I had to step out of myself

kako se trebam odvojiti od svoje normalne sebe

in my normal, reluctant female mode

u svom normalnom, bojažljivom ženskom stilu

and decide that I had to speak on behalf of our country.

i da trebam odlučiti da ću govoriti u ime naše zemlje.

And so that happened more at various times,

I to se dogodilo puno puta,

but I really think that there was a great advantage in many ways

ali mislim kako je bila velika prednost u puno stvari

to being a woman.

u tome što sam žena.

I think we are a lot better

Mislim kako smo mi bolje

at personal relationships,

kada se radi o osobnim vezama

and then have the capability obviously

i da očito imamo mogućnost

of telling it like it is when it's necessary.

govoriti onako kako treba kada je to potrebno.

But I have to tell you, I have my youngest granddaughter,

Ali moram vam reći, moja najmlađa unuka,

when she turned seven last year,

kada je prošle godine navršila sedam godina,

said to her mother, my daughter,

rekla je svojoj majci, mojoj kćeri,

"So what's the big deal about Grandma Maddie being Secretary of State?

"Što je tako bitno u tome da je baka Maddie Državna tajnica?"

Only girls are Secretary of State."

Samo žene su Državne tajnice".

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

PM: Because in her lifetime -- MA: That would be so.

PM: Zato što u njezinom životu -- (MA: To bi bilo tako.)

PM: What a change that is.

PM: Koja je to promjena.

As you travel now all over the world,

Sada kada putujete diljem svijeta,

which you do frequently,

i to redovito,

how do you assess

kako procjenjujete

this global narrative around the story of women and girls?

globalnu temu oko priče o ženama i djevojkama?

Where are we?

Gdje smo mi?

MA: I think we're slowly changing,

MA: Mislim kako se polako mijenjamo,

but obviously there are whole pockets

ali očito postoje velika područja

in countries where nothing is different.

u zemljama gdje se ništa nije promijenilo.

And therefore it means that we have to remember

I stoga to znači kako to moramo zapamtiti

that, while many of us have had huge opportunities --

dok su mnoge od nas imale ogromne prilike --

and Pat, you have been a real leader in your field --

i Pat, ti si bila pravi vođa u svom području --

is that there are a lot of women

i postoji puno žena

that are not capable

koje nisu sposobne

of worrying and taking care of themselves

brinuti o sebi

and understanding that women have to help other women.

i shvatiti kako žene moraju pomagati drugim ženama.

And so what I have felt --

I ono što sam osjećala --

and I have looked at this

i gledala sam na to

from a national security issue --

iz perspektive nacionalne sigurnosti --

when I was Secretary of State, I decided

kada sam bila državna tajnica, odlučila sam

that women's issues had to be central to American foreign policy,

kako problemi žena moraju biti središte američke vanjske politike,

not just because I'm a feminist,

ne samo zato jer sam feministkinja,

but because I believe that societies are better off

već zato jer vjerujem kako bi društva bila bolja

when women are politically and economically empowered,

kada bi žene bile politički i ekonomski osnažene,

that values are passed down,

te vrijednosti se zatim prenose,

the health situation is better,

stanje zdravstva bi bilo bolje,

education is better,

obrazovanje bi bilo bolje,

there is greater economic prosperity.

ekonomski prosperitet bi bio veći.

So I think that it behooves us --

Mislim kako nam to dolikuje --

those of us that live in various countries

i one od nas koje žive u različitim državama

where we do have economic and political voice --

gdje imamo ekonomski i politički glas --

that we need to help other women.

mislim kako moramo pomoći drugim ženama.

And I really dedicated myself to that,

Ja sam se tome stvarno posvetila

both at the U.N. and then as Secretary of State.

i kod UN-a i zatim kao državna tajnica.

PM: And did you get pushback

PM: Jesu li vas odguravali

from making that a central tenant of foreign policy?

kada ste željeli to postaviti kao centralni dio vanjske politike?

MA: From some people.

MA: Neki ljudi.

I think that they thought that it was a soft issue.

Mislim kako su oni mislili kako je to lagan problem.

The bottom line that I decided

Na kraju sam zaključila

was actually women's issues are the hardest issues,

da su ženski problemi najteži,

because they are the ones that have to do with life and death

jer su one te koje imaju veze sa životom i smrću

in so many aspects,

u toliko mnogo pogleda --

and because, as I said,

i zbog toga, kao što sam rekla,

it is really central to the way that we think about things.

to je zbilja bitno u načinu na koji razmišljamo o stvarima.

Now for instance,

Sada, na primjer,

some of the wars that took place

u nekim ratovima koji su trajali

when I was in office,

dok sam ja bila u uredu,

a lot of them, the women were the main victims of it.

većinom su žene bile glavne žrtve.

For instance, when I started,

Na primjer, kada sam počela,

there were wars in the Balkans.

trajao je rat na Balkanu.

The women in Bosnia were being raped.

Žene u Bosni su bile silovane.

We then managed to set up a war crimes tribunal

Uspjeli smo osnovati tribunal za ratne zločine

to deal specifically with those kinds of issues.

koji će se baviti točno tim vrstama problema.

And by the way, one of the things that I did at that stage

Uostalom, jedna od stvari koje sam napravila u toj fazi

was, I had just arrived at the U.N.,

je, kada sam došla u UN

and when I was there, there were 183 countries in the U.N.

i kada sam bila tamo, 183 zemlje su bile članice UN-a.

Now there are 192.

Sada ih je 192.

But it was one of the first times that I didn't have to cook lunch myself.

Ali to je bio jedan od prvih puta kada si nisam sama trebala kuhati ručak.

So I said to my assistant,

Stoga sam rekla svojoj asistentici,

"Invite the other women permanent representatives."

"Pozovi i ostale žene trajne predstavnice".

And I thought when I'd get to my apartment

Mislila sam kada dođem u svoj stan

that there'd be a lot of women there.

kako će tamo biti puno žena.

I get there, and there are six other women, out of 183.

Kada sam došla, tamo je bilo šest drugih žena, od njih 183.

So the countries that had women representatives

Zemlje koje su imale ženske predstavnice

were Canada, Kazakhstan, Philippines,

su bile Kanada, Kazakhstan, Filipini,

Trinidad Tobago, Jamaica,

Trinidad Tobago, Jamajka,

Lichtenstein and me.

Lihtenštajn i ja.

So being an American, I decided to set up a caucus.

Zato što sam Amerikanka, odlučila sam sazvati sastanak.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And so we set it up,

I organizirale smo ga

and we called ourselves the G7.

i nazvale smo se G7.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

PM: Is that "Girl 7?" MA: Girl 7.

PM: Je li to cura sedam? (MA: Cura sedam.)

And we lobbied

MA: I lobirale smo

on behalf of women's issues.

u korist ženskih prava.

So we managed to get two women judges

Uspjele smo dovesti dvije ženske sutkinje

on this war crimes tribunal.

na taj tribunal za ratne zločine.

And then what happened

I što se tada dogodilo

was that they were able to declare that rape was a weapon of war,

jest to da su bile sposobne izjaviti kako je silovanje ratno oružje,

that it was against humanity.

kako je to protiv ljudskosti.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

PM: So when you look around the world

PM: Dakle, kada pogledate širom svijeta

and you see that, in many cases --

i vidite kako u mnogo slučajeva --

certainly in the Western world --

naročito u zapadnom svijetu --

women are evolving into more leadership positions,

žene evoluiraju na više vodećih pozicija

and even other places

i čak na drugim mjestima

some barriers are being brought down,

neke barijere su srušene,

but there's still so much violence,

ali još uvijek postoji toliko mnogo nasilja,

still so many problems,

još uvijek toliko mnogo problema,

and yet we hear there are more women

a ipak čujemo kako ima sve više žena

at the negotiating tables.

za pregovaračkim stolovima.

Now you were at those negotiating tables

Tada ste se nalazili za tim pregovaračkim stolovima

when they weren't, when there was maybe you --

kada drugih nije bilo, kada ste možda bili vi --

one voice, maybe one or two others.

jedan glas, možda jedan ili dva druga.

Do you believe, and can you tell us why,

Vjerujete li i možete li nam reći zašto,

there is going to be a significant shift

će doći do značajnog preokreta

in things like violence

u stvarima poput nasilja

and peace and conflict and resolution

i mira i sukoba i rješenja

on a sustainable basis?

na održivoj bazi?

MA: Well I do think, when there are more women,

MA: Pa ja mislim, kada ima više žena,

that the tone of the conversation changes,

ton samog razogovora se mijenja

and also the goals of the conversation change.

i ciljevi razgovora se mijenjaju.

But it doesn't mean that the whole world

Ali to ne znači kako bi cijeli svijet

would be a lot better

bio puno bolji

if it were totally run by women.

kada bi ga u potpunosti vodile žene.

If you think that, you've forgotten high school.

Ako mislite to, zaboravili ste na srednju školu.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But the bottom line

Zaključak

is that there is a way,

je da postoji način,

when there are more women at the table,

kada je više žena za stolom,

that there's an attempt

postoji težnja

to develop some understanding.

da se razvije neko razumijevanje.

So for instance, what I did when I went to Burundi,

Dakle, na primjer, ono što sam učinila kada sam otišla u Burundi,

we'd got Tutsi and Hutu women together

sazvali bi Tutsi i Hutu žene zajedno

to talk about some of the problems

kako bi popričali o nekim od problema

that had taken place in Rwanda.

koji su se dogodili u Ruandi.

And so I think the capability of women

Stoga mislim kako je sposobnost žena

to put themselves --

da se stave --

I think we're better about putting ourselves into the other guy's shoes

mislim kako smo bolje u pokušaju da stavimo sebe u položaj drugih

and having more empathy.

i da imamo više suosjećanja.

I think it helps in terms of the support

Mislim kako to pomaže u terminima podrške

if there are other women in the room.

ukoliko ima drugih žena u prostoriji.

When I was Secretary of State,

Kada sam bila Državna tajnica,

there were only 13 other women foreign ministers.

bilo je samo 13 drugih žena ministrica vanjske politike.

And so it was nice when one of them would show up.

I stoga je bilo lijepo kada bi se jedna od njih pojavila.

For instance, she is now the president of Finland,

Na primjer, ona je sada predsjednica FInske,

but Tarja Halonen was the foreign minister of Finland

ali Tarja Halonen je bila ministrica vanjskih poslova Finske

and, at a certain stage, head of the European Union.

i na određenoj razini, vođa Europske Unije.

And it was really terrific.

I to je bilo doista odlično.

Because one of the things I think you'll understand.

Jer jednu od stvari mislim kako ćete shvatiti.

We went to a meeting,

Otišli smo na sastanak

and the men in my delegation,

i muškarci u mojoj delegaciji,

when I would say, "Well I feel we should do something about this,"

kada bih ja rekla, "Pa osjećam kako bi morali nešto napraviti po tom pitanju",

and they'd say, "What do you mean, you feel?"

oni bi rekli, "Kako to mislite, vi osjećate?"

And so then Tarja was sitting across the table from me.

I tada je Tarja sjedila preko puta mog stola.

And all of a sudden we were talking about arms control,

I odjednom smo pričale o kontroli naoružanja

and she said, "Well I feel we should do this."

i ona je rekla, "Pa osjećam kako bismo to trebali učiniti".

And my male colleagues kind of got it all of a sudden.

I svi moji muški kolege odjedno su shvatili.

But I think it really does help

Ali mislim kako doista pomaže

to have a critical mass of women

imati kritičnu masu žena

in a series of foreign policy positions.

na nizu poziciju u vanjskoj politici.

The other thing that I think is really important:

Druga stvar za koju mislim kako je doista važna:

A lot of national security policy

dosta državne sigurnosne politike

isn't just about foreign policy,

nije samo o vanjskoj politici,

but it's about budgets, military budgets,

nego je i o budžetima, vojnim budžetima

and how the debts of countries work out.

i kako riješiti dugove zemalja.

So if you have women

Stoga ako imate žene

in a variety of foreign policy posts,

na različitim mjestima u vanjskoj politici

they can support each other

one mogu pružiti potporu jedna drugoj

when there are budget decisions being made in their own countries.

kada se donose odluke o budžetu u njihovim zemljama.

PM: So how do we get

PM: Dakle, kako postignemo

this balance we're looking for, then, in the world?

tu ravnotežu kojoj stremimo u svijetu?

More women's voices at the table?

Više ženskih glasova za stolom?

More men who believe

Više muškaraca koji vjeruju

that the balance is best?

kako je ravnoteža najbolja?

MA: Well I think one of the things --

MA: Pa ja mislim kako jedna od stvari:

I'm chairman of the board of an organization

Predsjednica sam odbora organizacije

called the National Democratic Institute

zvane Nacionalni demokratski institut

that works to support women candidates.

koji radi kako bi pružio podršku ženama kandidatkinjama.

I think that we need

Mislim kako trebamo

to help in other countries

pružiti pomoć u drugim zemljama

to train women

kako bi trenirali žene

to be in political office,

da budu u političkom uredu,

to figure out how they can in fact

da otkriju kako zapravo mogu

develop political voices.

razviti političke glasove.

I think we also need to be supportive

Isto tako mislim kako trebamo pružati podršku

when businesses are being created

kada se poduzeća stvaraju

and just make sure that women help each other.

i samo omogućiti da žene mogu pomagati jedne drugima.

Now I have a saying

Sada, imam jednu izreku,

that I feel very strongly about,

koje se jako dosljedno držim,

because I am of a certain age

jer sam u određenim godinama

where, when I started in my career,

gdje, kada sam započela svoju karijeru,

believe it or not, there were other women who criticized me:

vjerovali ili ne, bile druge žene koje su me kritizirale:

"Why aren't you in the carpool line?"

"Zašto ne čekaj u redu za javni prijevoz?"

or "Aren't your children suffering

ili "Ne pate li tvoja djeca

because you're not there all the time?"

jer nisi s njima cijelo vrijeme?"

And I think we have a tendency to make each other feel guilty.

I mislim kako imamo tendenciju učiniti jedna drugu da se osjećamo krivima.

In fact, I think "guilt" is every woman's middle name.

Zapravo, mislim kako je "krivnja" srednje ime svake žene.

And so I think what needs to happen

I stoga mislim kako je ono što se treba dogoditi

is we need to help each other.

da trebamo pomoći jedne drugima.

And my motto is that there's a special place in hell

A moj moto je kako postoji posebno mjesto u paklu

for women who don't help each other.

za žene koje ne pomažu jedne drugima.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

PM: Well Secretary Albright, I guess you'll be going to heaven.

PM: Pa državna tajnice Albright, vjerujem kako ćete vi otići u raj.

Thank you for joining us today.

Hvala vam što ste se nam pridružili danas.

MA: Thank you all. Thanks Pat.

MA: Hvala svima. Hvala Pat.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)