How reliable is your memory? | Elizabeth Loftus

Translator: Luz Leirós Reviewer: Xosé María Moreno

I'd like to tell you about a legal case that I worked on

Gustaríame falarlles sobre un caso xudicial no que traballei

involving a man named Steve Titus.

que tiña que ver cun home chamado Steve Titus.

Titus was a restaurant manager.

Titus era o xerente dun restaurante.

He was 31 years old, he lived in Seattle, Washington,

Tiña 31 anos, vivía en Seattle, Washington,

he was engaged to Gretchen,

estaba comprometido con Gretchen,

about to be married, she was the love of his life.

a punto de casar. Ela era o amor da súa vida.

And one night, the couple went out

Unha noite, a parella saíu

for a romantic restaurant meal.

para cearen romanticamente nun restaurante.

They were on their way home,

Ían de volta á casa,

and they were pulled over by a police officer.

e detívoos un policía.

You see, Titus' car sort of resembled

O coche de Titus tiña algún parecido

a car that was driven earlier in the evening

cun coche que esa mesma tarde conducía

by a man who raped a female hitchhiker,

un home que violara unha muller que facía autostop,

and Titus kind of resembled that rapist.

e Titus parecíase algo a ese violador.

So the police took a picture of Titus,

Así que o policía tomou unha fotografía de Titus,

they put it in a photo lineup,

puxérona xunto con outras

they later showed it to the victim,

e amosáronllas á vítima.

and she pointed to Titus' photo.

Ela sinalou a foto de Titus.

She said, "That one's the closest."

E dixo, "ese é o máis parecido".

The police and the prosecution proceeded with a trial,

A policía e a fiscalía iniciaron un xuízo

and when Steve Titus was put on trial for rape,

contra Steve Titus, que foi inculpado por violación.

the rape victim got on the stand

Cando a vítima da violación subiu ao estrado,

and said, "I'm absolutely positive that's the man."

dixo, "estou completamente segura de que ese é o home".

And Titus was convicted.

E Titus foi condenado.

He proclaimed his innocence,

El declarou a súa inocencia,

his family screamed at the jury,

a súa familia gritoulle ao xurado,

his fiancée collapsed on the floor sobbing,

a súa noiva esvaeceuse lepeando,

and Titus is taken away to jail.

e a Titus levárono ao cárcere.

So what would you do at this point?

Que farían vostedes a partir de aí?

What would you do?

Que farían?

Well, Titus lost complete faith in the legal system,

Ben, Titus perdeu completamente a súa fe no sistema legal

and yet he got an idea.

pero tivo unha idea.

He called up the local newspaper,

Chamou ao diario local,

he got the interest of an investigative journalist,

conseguiu interesar a un xornalista investigador

and that journalist actually found the real rapist,

e este logrou atopar ao verdadeiro violador.

a man who ultimately confessed to this rape,

Un home que ao final confesou a violación.

a man who was thought to have committed 50 rapes

Un home que parece que cometera 50 violacións

in that area,

nesa área,

and when this information was given to the judge,

e cando esta información se lle presentou ao xuíz,

the judge set Titus free.

o xuíz liberou a Titus.

And really, that's where this case should have ended.

E realmente, aí debería rematar o caso.

It should have been over.

Debería acabarse.

Titus should have thought of this as a horrible year,

Titus debeu pensar que ese fora un ano horrible,

a year of accusation and trial, but over.

un ano de acusación e xuízo, pero que xa pasou.

It didn't end that way.

Pero non rematou así.

Titus was so bitter.

Titus estaba moi amargado.

He'd lost his job. He couldn't get it back.

Perdeu o seu traballo. Non puido recuperalo.

He lost his fiancée.

Perdeu á súa noiva.

She couldn't put up with his persistent anger.

Ela non podía soportar a súa permanente ira.

He lost his entire savings,

Perdeu tódolos seus aforros,

and so he decided to file a lawsuit

polo que decidiu presentar unha demanda

against the police and others whom he felt

contra a policía e contra todos os que pensaba

were responsible for his suffering.

que eran responsables do seu sufrimento.

And that's when I really started working on this case,

E foi nese momento cando eu comecei a traballar neste caso,

trying to figure out

tratando de entender

how did that victim go from

como esa vítima pasou de

"That one's the closest"

"Ese é o máis parecido"

to "I'm absolutely positive that's the guy."

a "Estou completamente segura de que ese é o home".

Well, Titus was consumed with his civil case.

Ben, Titus estaba consumido co proceso civil.

He spent every waking moment thinking about it,

Pasaba cada intre do día pensando nel,

and just days before he was to have his day in court,

e xusto uns días antes da súa cita no xulgado,

he woke up in the morning,

espertou unha mañá,

doubled over in pain,

dobregado pola dor,

and died of a stress-related heart attack.

e morreu dun ataque cardíaco asociado ao estrés.

He was 35 years old.

Tiña 35 anos.

So I was asked to work on Titus' case

Así que me pedíron que traballase no caso de Titus

because I'm a psychological scientist.

porque son psicóloga científica.

I study memory. I've studied memory for decades.

Estudo a memoria. Fíxeno durante décadas.

And if I meet somebody on an airplane --

E se atopo alguén nun avión

this happened on the way over to Scotland --

--isto pasoume de camiño a Escocia --

if I meet somebody on an airplane,

se eu coñezo a alguén nun avión,

and we ask each other, "What do you do? What do you do?"

e nos preguntamos, "en que traballas? En que traballas?"

and I say "I study memory,"

e eu digo: "Estudo a memoria",

they usually want to tell me how they have trouble remembering names,

adoitan empezar a contarme os seus problemas para recordar nomes,

or they've got a relative who's got Alzheimer's

ou que teñen un parente con Alzheimer

or some kind of memory problem,

ou algún tipo de problema coa memoria.

but I have to tell them

Entón teño que dicir que

I don't study when people forget.

eu non estudo como a xente esquece.

I study the opposite: when they remember,

Estudo o contrario: como recordan,

when they remember things that didn't happen

cando lembran cousas que non ocorreron

or remember things that were different

ou se lembran cousas diferentes

from the way they really were.

de como sucederon na realidade.

I study false memories.

Eu estudo falsos recordos.

Unhappily, Steve Titus is not the only person

Por desgraza, Steve Titus non é o único

to be convicted based on somebody's false memory.

que foi condenado baseándose nos falsos recordos de alguén.

In one project in the United States,

Nun proxecto nos EE.UU.,

information has been gathered

recompilouse información

on 300 innocent people,

acerca de 300 persoas inocentes,

300 defendants who were convicted of crimes they didn't do.

300 acusados condenados por delitos que non cometeran.

They spent 10, 20, 30 years in prison for these crimes,

Persoas que pasaron 10, 20, 30 anos no cárcere por eses delitos,

and now DNA testing has proven

e despois as probas de ADN demostraron

that they are actually innocent.

que, en realidade, eran inocentes.

And when those cases have been analyzed,

E cando se analizaron eses casos,

three quarters of them

tres cuartas partes

are due to faulty memory, faulty eyewitness memory.

ocorreran por fallos de memoria, recordos imperfectos das testemuñas.

Well, why?

Entón, por que?

Like the jurors who convicted those innocent people

Como os xurados que condenaron a todos eses inocentes

and the jurors who convicted Titus,

e os que condenaron a Titus,

many people believe that memory

moita xente cre que a memoria

works like a recording device.

é coma un dispositivo de gravación.

You just record the information,

Só necesitas gravar a información,

then you call it up and play it back

logo búscala e reprodúcela

when you want to answer questions or identify images.

cando queres responder preguntas ou identificar imaxes.

But decades of work in psychology

Pero décadas de traballo en psicoloxía

has shown that this just isn't true.

mostraron, simplemente, que isto non é certo.

Our memories are constructive.

Os nosos recordos son construtivos.

They're reconstructive.

Son reconstrutivos.

Memory works a little bit more like a Wikipedia page:

A memoria funciona máis coma unha páxina da Wikipedia:

You can go in there and change it, but so can other people.

Ti podes ir e cambiala, pero tamén poden facelo outros.

I first started studying this constructive memory process

Comecei a estudar este proceso construtivo da memoria

in the 1970s.

nos anos 70.

I did my experiments that involved showing people

Fixen experimentos que implicaban amosarlle á xente

simulated crimes and accidents

delitos e accidentes simulados

and asking them questions about what they remember.

e logo preguntarlles acerca do que recordaban.

In one study, we showed people a simulated accident

Nun estudo, amosabámoslle á xente un accidente simulado

and we asked people,

e preguntabámoslles,

how fast were the cars going when they hit each other?

como de rápido ían os coches cando chocaron?

And we asked other people,

E a outros preguntabámoslles,

how fast were the cars going when they smashed into each other?

como de rápido ían os coches cando se estrelaron?

And if we asked the leading "smashed" question,

Se na pregunta diciamos "estrelaron",

the witnesses told us the cars were going faster,

as testemuñas dicían que os coches ían máis rápido,

and moreover, that leading "smashed" question

e máis aínda, se na pregunta se dicía "estrelaron"

caused people to be more likely to tell us

iso facía que a xente dixese con máis probabilidade

that they saw broken glass in the accident scene

que viran vidros rotos na escena do accidente

when there wasn't any broken glass at all.

cando non había ningún en absoluto.

In another study, we showed a simulated accident

Noutro estudo, amosabamos un accidente simulado

where a car went through an intersection with a stop sign,

onde un coche atravesaba unha intersección cun sinal de "stop",

and if we asked a question that insinuated it was a yield sign,

e se lles preguntabamos, insinuando que había un sinal de "ceda o paso",

many witnesses told us they remember seeing a yield sign

moitas testemuñas dicían que lembraban o sinal de "ceda o paso"

at the intersection, not a stop sign.

na intersección, non o sinal de "stop".

And you might be thinking, well, you know,

Agora ben, vostedes poden pensar que

these are filmed events,

estes son eventos gravados,

they are not particularly stressful.

non son particularmente estresantes.

Would the same kind of mistakes be made

Cometeríase o mesmo tipo de error

with a really stressful event?

nun evento realmente estresante?

In a study we published just a few months ago,

Nun estudo que publicamos hai poucos meses,

we have an answer to this question,

demos unha resposta a esta pregunta,

because what was unusual about this study

porque o especial dese estudo

is we arranged for people to have a very stressful experience.

foi que puxemos as persoas nunha situación moi estresante.

The subjects in this study

Os que participaron nese estudo

were members of the U.S. military

eran militares dos EE.UU.

who were undergoing a harrowing training exercise

que pasaran por un horroroso exercicio de adestramento

to teach them what it's going to be like for them

para ensinarlles o que lles pasaría

if they are ever captured as prisoners of war.

se fosen capturados como prisioneiros de guerra.

And as part of this training exercise,

Como parte dese exercicio de adestramento,

these soldiers are interrogated in an aggressive,

eses soldados eran interrogados dun xeito agresivo,

hostile, physically abusive fashion for 30 minutes

hostil e fisicamente abusivo, durante 30 minutos.

and later on they have to try to identify

Logo debían tratar de identificar

the person who conducted that interrogation.

a persoa que levara a cabo o interrogatorio.

And when we feed them suggestive information

E cando se lles subministraba información interesada

that insinuates it's a different person,

insinuando que fora unha persoa diferente,

many of them misidentify their interrogator,

moitos deles identificaban erroneamente o seu interrogador,

often identifying someone who doesn't even remotely

ás veces sinalando a alguén que, nin remotamente,

resemble the real interrogator.

se parecía ao interrogador verdadeiro.

And so what these studies are showing

O que amosan estes estudos é

is that when you feed people misinformation

que, cando lle dás á xente información errada

about some experience that they may have had,

acerca dalgunha experiencia pasada,

you can distort or contaminate or change their memory.

podes alterar, contaminar ou cambiar o seu recordo.

Well out there in the real world,

Fóra de aí, no mundo real,

misinformation is everywhere.

a información errada está en todas partes.

We get misinformation

Recibimos información errada

not only if we're questioned in a leading way,

non só se nos preguntan dun certo xeito,

but if we talk to other witnesses

senón tamén se falamos con outras testemuñas

who might consciously or inadvertently feed us

que, consciente ou inconscientemente,

some erroneous information,

dannos algo de información errónea.

or if we see media coverage about some event we might have experienced,

Ou se vemos a cobertura nos medios dalgún suceso que vivimos,

all of these provide the opportunity

todos estes casos son oportunidades

for this kind of contamination of our memory.

para este tipo de contaminación da memoria.

In the 1990s, we began to see

Nos anos 90, comezamos a ver

an even more extreme kind of memory problem.

un tipo de problema de memoria aínda máis extremo.

Some patients were going into therapy with one problem --

Algúns pacientes estaban iniciando tratamento para un problema--

maybe they had depression, an eating disorder --

quizais depresión, unha desorde alimenticia --

and they were coming out of therapy

e saían da terapia

with a different problem.

con outro problema distinto.

Extreme memories for horrific brutalizations,

Recordos extremos de brutalidade horrible,

sometimes in satanic rituals,

ás veces, de rituais satánicos,

sometimes involving really bizarre and unusual elements.

ás veces, incluíndo elementos estraños ou infrecuentes.

One woman came out of psychotherapy

Unha muller saíu de psicoterapia

believing that she'd endured years

crendo que soportara durante anos

of ritualistic abuse, where she was forced into a pregnancy

abusos rituais, nos que era forzada a quedar embarazada

and that the baby was cut from her belly.

e que lle arrincaban o bebé do seu ventre.

But there were no physical scars

Pero non tiña cicatrices

or any kind of physical evidence

nin ningún tipo de evidencia física

that could have supported her story.

que apoiase a súa historia.

And when I began looking into these cases,

E cando empecei a examinar estes casos,

I was wondering,

eu preguntábame,

where do these bizarre memories come from?

de onde veñen estes estraños recordos?

And what I found is that most of these situations

O que atopei é que, a maioría destas situacións

involved some particular form of psychotherapy.

tiñan que ver con algunha forma de psicoterapia.

And so I asked,

Así que preguntei

were some of the things going on in this psychotherapy --

se serían algunhas desas cousas resultado da psicoterapia

like the imagination exercises

--como exercicios de imaxinación

or dream interpretation,

ou interpretación de soños

or in some cases hypnosis,

ou, nalgúns casos, hipnose

or in some cases exposure to false information --

ou, quizais, exposición a información falsa--

were these leading these patients

se estes pacientes serían suxestionados

to develop these very bizarre,

para desenvolver eses raros

unlikely memories?

e improbables recordos?

And I designed some experiments

E deseñei algúns experimentos

to try to study the processes that were being used

para estuda-los procesos que se usaban

in this psychotherapy so I could study

nesa psicoterapia, para examinar

the development of these very rich false memories.

o desenvolvemento destes falsos recordos tan vívidos.

In one of the first studies we did,

Nun dos primeiros estudos que fixemos

we used suggestion,

usamos a suxestión,

a method inspired by the psychotherapy we saw in these cases,

un método inspirado pola psicoterapia que vimos neses casos,

we used this kind of suggestion

usamos ese tipo de suxestión.

and planted a false memory

e implantamos un falso recordo

that when you were a kid, five or six years old,

de que, cando eras un neno, de cinco ou seis anos,

you were lost in a shopping mall.

perdícheste nun centro comercial.

You were frightened. You were crying.

Estabas asustado. Chorabas.

You were ultimately rescued by an elderly person

Finalmente fuches rescatado por un adulto

and reunited with the family.

e volviches coa túa familia.

And we succeeded in planting this memory

E tivemos éxito ao implantar ese recordo

in the minds of about a quarter of our subjects.

nas mentes da cuarta parte dos suxeitos.

And you might be thinking, well,

E vostedes poden pensar que

that's not particularly stressful.

iso non é especialmente estresante.

But we and other investigators have planted

Pero, nós e outros investigadores

rich false memories of things that were

implantamos recordos vívidos de cousas

much more unusual and much more stressful.

moito máis estrañas e máis estresantes.

So in a study done in Tennessee,

Nun estudo feito en Tennessee,

researchers planted the false memory

os investigadores implantaron o falso recordo

that when you were a kid, you nearly drowned

de que cando eras un neno, case afogaches

and had to be rescued by a life guard.

e tívote que rescatar un socorrista.

And in a study done in Canada,

E nun estudo feito en Canadá,

researchers planted the false memory

os investigadores implantaron o falso recordo

that when you were a kid,

de que, cando un neno,

something as awful as being attacked by a vicious animal

algo tan horrible como ser atacado por un animal salvaxe

happened to you,

pasárache a ti,

succeeding with about half of their subjects.

e tiveron éxito coa metade dos suxeitos.

And in a study done in Italy,

E nun estudo feito en Italia,

researchers planted the false memory,

os investigadores implantaron o falso recordo,

when you were a kid, you witnessed demonic possession.

de que cando eras neno, foras testemuña dunha posesión demoníaca.

I do want to add that it might seem

Quero engadir que podería parecer

like we are traumatizing these experimental subjects

como que estamos traumatizando aos suxeitos experimentais

in the name of science,

no nome da ciencia,

but our studies have gone through thorough evaluation

pero os nosos estudos foron examinados coidadosamente

by research ethics boards

por comités de ética da investigación

that have made the decision

que decidiron

that the temporary discomfort that some

que a molestia temporal que algúns

of these subjects might experience in these studies

destes suxeitos poderían experimentar nestes estudos

is outweighed by the importance of this problem

é superada pola importancia deste problema

for understanding memory processes

para entender os procesos da memoria

and the abuse of memory that is going on

e o abuso da memoria que esta a ocorrer

in some places in the world.

nalgúns lugares do mundo.

Well, to my surprise,

Ben, para a miña sorpresa,

when I published this work and began to speak out

cando publiquei este traballo e comecei a falar

against this particular brand of psychotherapy,

en contra desta forma particular de psicoterapia,

it created some pretty bad problems for me:

tiven algúns problemas serios:

hostilities, primarily from the repressed memory therapists,

hostilidades, principalmente con terapeutas da memoria reprimida,

who felt under attack,

que se sentiron atacados,

and by the patients whom they had influenced.

e cos pacientes aos que eles influíran.

I had sometimes armed guards at speeches

Tiven gardas armados nalgunhas charlas

that I was invited to give,

que me invitaron a dar.

people trying to drum up letter-writing campaigns to get me fired.

Houbo campañas de recolleita de firmas para que me despedisen.

But probably the worst

Pero probablemente o peor

was I suspected that a woman

foi que eu sospeitaba que unha muller

was innocent of abuse

era inocente dos abusos

that was being claimed by her grown daughter.

dos que a acusaba a súa propia filla, xa adulta.

She accused her mother of sexual abuse

Ela acusaba a súa nai de abuso sexual

based on a repressed memory.

baseada nun recordo reprimido.

And this accusing daughter had actually allowed her story

E esta filla permitira que a súa historia

to be filmed and presented in public places.

se filmase e se presentase en lugares públicos.

I was suspicious of this story,

Eu sospeitaba desta historia,

and so I started to investigate,

así que empecei a investigar,

and eventually found information that convinced me

e, finalmente, atopei información convincente

that this mother was innocent.

de que a nai era inocente.

I published an exposé on the case,

Publiquei unha exposición do caso,

and a little while later, the accusing daughter

e pouco tempo despois, a filla

filed a lawsuit.

presentou unha demanda.

Even though I'd never mentioned her name,

Aínda que nunca mencionei o seu nome,

she sued me for defamation and invasion of privacy.

ela demandoume por difamación e invasión da intimidade.

And I went through nearly five years

E pasei preto de cinco anos

of dealing with this messy, unpleasant litigation,

loitando con esta desagradable lea,

but finally, finally, it was over and I could really

pero finalmente, todo rematou e puiden realmente

get back to my work.

retornar ao meu traballo.

In the process, however, I became part

No proceso, con todo, volvinme parte

of a disturbing trend in America

dunha tendencia perturbadora nos EE.UU.,

where scientists are being sued

na que os científicos eran denunciados

for simply speaking out on matters of great public controversy.

simplemente por falar de temas de gran controversia pública.

When I got back to my work, I asked this question:

Cando regresei ao meu traballo, fíxenme a pregunta:

if I plant a false memory in your mind,

Se implanto falsos recordos na túa mente,

does it have repercussions?

haberá repercusións?

Does it affect your later thoughts,

Afectará iso aos teus pensamentos despois?

your later behaviors?

Ao teu comportamento futuro?

Our first study planted a false memory

O noso primeiro estudo implantaba o recordo falso

that you got sick as a child eating certain foods:

de que de neno enfermaras por comer certos alimentos:

hard-boiled eggs, dill pickles, strawberry ice cream.

ovos cocidos, cogombros en vinagre, xeado de amorodo...

And we found that once we planted this false memory,

Atopamos que, unha vez que implantamos estes falsos recordos,

people didn't want to eat the foods as much

as persoas xa non querían comer estes alimentos

at an outdoor picnic.

nun pícnic ao aire libre.

The false memories aren't necessarily bad or unpleasant.

Os falsos recordos non son necesariamente malos ou desagradables.

If we planted a warm, fuzzy memory

Se implantábamos un recordo agradable, borroso,

involving a healthy food like asparagus,

que tiña que ver con comida saudable, coma espárragos,

we could get people to want to eat asparagus more.

podíamos facer que a xente quixese comer máis espárragos.

And so what these studies are showing

Así que, o que estes estudos están a mostrar

is that you can plant false memories

é que podes implantar falsos recordos

and they have repercussions

e lograr repercusións

that affect behavior long after the memories take hold.

que afectan ao comportamento moito tempo despois de que o recordo sexa asimilado.

Well, along with this ability

Ben, canda esta capacidade

to plant memories and control behavior

para implantar recordos e controla-lo comportamento,

obviously come some important ethical issues,

obviamente veñen algúns asuntos éticos importantes,

like, when should we use this mind technology?

como, cando deberiamos usar esta tecnoloxía na mente?

And should we ever ban its use?

E se deberiamos incluso prohibila?

Therapists can't ethically plant false memories

Os terapeutas non poden, eticamente, implantar falsos recordos

in the mind of their patients

na mente dos seus pacientes,

even if it would help the patient,

aínda que iso puidera axudarlles,

but there's nothing to stop a parent

pero nada pode evitar que un pai

from trying this out on their overweight or obese teenager.

intente isto co seu adolescente con sobrepeso ou obesidade.

And when I suggested this publicly,

E cando suxerín isto publicamente,

it created an outcry again.

provoquei outra protesta.

"There she goes. She's advocating that parents lie to their children."

"Aí vai esta outra vez. Está a suxerir que os pais lles mintan aos fillos".

Hello, Santa Claus. (Laughter)

Ola, Papá Noel. (Risas)

I mean, another way to think about this is,

Quero dicir, outro xeito de velo é,

which would you rather have,

que preferirías ter:

a kid with obesity, diabetes, shortened lifespan,

un neno obeso, diabético, con menor esperanza de vida,

all the things that go with it,

e todo o que iso implica,

or a kid with one little extra bit of false memory?

ou un neno cuns poucos recordos falsos?

I know what I would choose for a kid of mine.

Eu sei o que escollería para un dos meus fillos.

But maybe my work has made me different from most people.

Pero, quizais, o meu traballo fíxome distinta da maioría das persoas.

Most people cherish their memories,

A maioría da xente valora os seus recordos,

know that they represent their identity,

sabe que representan a súa identidade,

who they are, where they came from.

quen son, de onde veñen.

And I appreciate that. I feel that way too.

Eu entendo isto. Síntome tamén así.

But I know from my work

Pero sei, polo meu traballo,

how much fiction is already in there.

canto de mito hai neste tema.

If I've learned anything from these decades

Se aprendín algo destas décadas

of working on these problems, it's this:

de traballo sobre estes problemas, é isto:

just because somebody tells you something

só porque alguén che diga algo

and they say it with confidence,

e cho diga con confianza,

just because they say it with lots of detail,

só porque o di con todo luxo de detalles,

just because they express emotion when they say it,

só porque se expresa con emoción cando o di,

it doesn't mean that it really happened.

non significa que realmente ocorrese.

We can't reliably distinguish true memories from false memories.

Non podemos distinguir os recordos falsos dos verdadeiros con fiabilidade.

We need independent corroboration.

Necesitamos unha confirmación independente.

Such a discovery has made me more tolerant

Este descubrimento fíxome máis tolerante

of the everyday memory mistakes

cos erros cotiáns de memoria

that my friends and family members make.

que cometen os meus amigos e a miña familia.

Such a discovery might have saved Steve Titus,

Este descubrimento puido salvar a Steve Titus,

the man whose whole future was snatched away

o home cuxo futuro foi arrebatado

by a false memory.

por un recordo falso.

But meanwhile, we should all keep in mind,

Pero mentres tanto, todos deberíamos ter presente,

we'd do well to,

faríamos ben en facelo,

that memory, like liberty,

que a memoria, como a liberdade,

is a fragile thing.

é algo fráxil.

Thank you. Thank you.

Grazas. Grazas.

Thank you. (Applause)

Grazas. (Aplausos)

Thanks very much. (Applause)

Moitas grazas. (Aplausos)