Nadia Al-Sakkaf: See Yemen through my eyes

88,313 views ・ 2011-07-18

TED


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翻译人员: Jing Gao 校对人员: Chunxiang Qian
00:15
Pat Mitchell: You have brought us images from the Yemen Times.
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Pat Mitchell (以下简称PM) : 你从《也门时报》给我们带来了照片。
00:19
And take us through those,
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给我们讲讲这些照片,
00:21
and introduce us to another Yemen.
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给我们介绍一个不一样的也门。
00:25
Nadia Al-Sakkaf: Well, I'm glad to be here.
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Nadia Al-Sakkaf (以下简称NA) : 好的。我很高兴能够来到这儿。
00:27
And I would like to share with you all
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我很愿意很你们所有人分享
00:29
some of the pictures that are happening today in Yemen.
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一些纪录也门今天的照片。
00:32
This picture shows a revolution
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这幅照片展示的是一场
00:34
started by women,
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由女性发起的革命。
00:36
and it shows women and men
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照片中女性和男性共同
00:39
leading a mixed protest.
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领导一次抗议。
00:41
The other picture
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另一幅图片
00:43
is the popularity of the real need for change.
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展示了人们真切要求变革的强烈呼声。
00:47
So many people are there.
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许多人都在那儿。
00:49
The intensity of the upspring.
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抗议非常激烈。
00:53
This picture shows that the revolution
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这幅图片显示,革命已经帮助
00:55
has allowed opportunities for training,
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也门女性取得一些
00:57
for education.
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教育、培训的机会。
00:59
These women are learning about first aid
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这些女性在学习急救知识,
01:01
and their rights according to the constitution.
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以及宪法赋予她们的权利。
01:04
I love this picture.
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我喜欢这张照片。
01:06
I just wanted to show
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我只是想展示,
01:08
that over 60 percent of the Yemeni population
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也门60%以上的人口
01:10
are 15 years and below.
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都在15岁及15岁以下。
01:12
And they were excluded from decision-making,
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过去他们与决策制定无缘,
01:14
and now they are in the forefront of the news,
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现在他们高举着旗子,
01:17
raising the flag.
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走在新闻的前沿。
01:19
English --
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英语——
01:21
you will see, this is jeans
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你可以看到,照片中的人穿着牛仔裤
01:23
and tights,
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和紧身衣,
01:25
and an English expression --
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身上贴着英文标语——
01:28
the ability to share with the world
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也门人能够和全世界分享
01:31
what is going on in our own country.
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在自己的国家都发生些什么。
01:34
And expression also,
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一些标语也
01:37
it has brought talents.
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让有才能的人崭露头角。
01:39
Yemenis are using cartoons
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也门人通过卡通、
01:41
and art,
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艺术、
01:44
paintings, comics,
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绘画和漫画,
01:46
to tell the world and each other
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向世界及同胞们讲述
01:48
about what's going on.
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发生在也门的事。
01:50
Obviously, there's always the dark side of it.
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当然,凡事都有两面。
01:53
And this is just one of the less-gruesome pictures
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一些照片显示了我们为革命必须付出的代价。
01:56
of the revolution
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这张照片只是其中
01:58
and the cost that we have to pay.
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不那么可怕的一张。
02:00
The solidarity
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来自也门各地的成千上万的也门人
02:02
of millions of Yemenis across the country
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团结一致,
02:04
just demanding the one thing.
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只为革命。
02:06
And finally, lots of people are saying
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最后这张。许多人都说
02:08
that Yemen's revolution
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也门的革命
02:10
is going to break the country.
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会把这个国家拖垮的。
02:12
Is it going to be so many different countries?
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也门会不会分裂成几个国家?
02:14
Is it going to be another Somalia?
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会不会成为索马里第二?
02:16
But we want to tell the world that, no,
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但我们想要告诉世界,不,
02:18
under the one flag, we'll still remain as Yemeni people.
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在也门的国旗下,我们永远是也门人。
02:22
PM: Thank you for those images, Nadia.
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PM: 谢谢你带给我们这些图片,Naida。
02:25
And they do, in many ways,
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它们确实,在许多方面,
02:27
tell a different story
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都给我们讲述了一个不一样的也门,
02:29
than the story of Yemen,
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一个和我们经常在新闻里看到的
02:31
the one that is often in the news.
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不一样的也门。
02:33
And yet, you yourself
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事实上,你自己
02:35
defy all those characterizations.
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就摒弃了各种传统特征。
02:37
So let's talk about the personal story for a moment.
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我们就来谈谈你的个人故事。
02:41
Your father is murdered.
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你的父亲是被杀害的。
02:44
The Yemen Times already has
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作为一份独立的英文报纸,
02:46
a strong reputation in Yemen
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《也门时报》在也门
02:49
as an independent English language newspaper.
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已经树立了良好的声誉。
02:53
How did you then
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你当时是怎样
02:55
make the decision and assume the responsibilities
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做出接手报纸的
02:57
of running a newspaper,
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决定的,
02:59
especially in such times of conflict?
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特别是在当时冲突严重的时期?
03:02
NA: Well, let me first warn you
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NA: 首先我必须说
03:04
that I'm not the traditional Yemeni girl.
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我不是传统型的也门女孩儿。
03:07
I've guessed you've already noticed this by now.
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我猜你们已经注意到了。
03:09
(Laughter)
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(笑)
03:11
In Yemen, most women are veiled
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在也门,大多数女性都戴着面纱,
03:13
and they are sitting behind doors
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坐在门后,
03:16
and not very much part of the public life.
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无缘公众生活。
03:18
But there's so much potential.
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但这其中潜力无穷。
03:20
I wish I could show you my Yemen.
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我希望我能给你展示我的也门。
03:23
I wish you could see
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我希望你能够
03:25
Yemen through my eyes.
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通过我的眼睛来看也门。
03:27
Then you would know
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你会有
03:29
that there's so much to it.
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许许多多的发现。
03:31
And I was privileged because I was born into a family,
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我很幸运,因为在我出生的家庭,
03:34
my father would always encourage the boys and the girls.
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父亲总是不停激励男孩女孩们。
03:38
He would say we are equal.
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他说我们是平等的。
03:41
And he was such an extraordinary man.
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他是如此非凡的一个人。
03:44
And even my mother -- I owe it to my family.
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还有我的母亲——我的故事——
03:47
A story:
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归功于我的家人。
03:49
I studied in India.
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我在印度上的大学。
03:51
And in my third year, I started becoming confused
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在我大三的时候,我开始感到非常困惑,
03:54
because I was Yemeni,
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因为我是也门人,
03:56
but I was also mixing up
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但我也总和许多
03:58
with a lot of my friends in college.
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大学朋友在一起。
04:00
And I went back home and I said,
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回家后我说,
04:03
"Daddy, I don't know who I am.
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“爸爸,我不知道我是谁。
04:05
I'm not a Yemeni; I'm not an Indian."
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我不是也门人,我也不是印度人。”
04:07
And he said, "You are the bridge."
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他回答说,“你是连接两者的桥梁。”
04:09
And that is something I will keep in my heart forever.
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我会永远记住他的话。
04:13
So since then I've been the bridge,
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从此以后我就是桥梁,
04:15
and a lot of people have walked over me.
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许多人都从我身上走过。
04:18
PM: I don't think so. (Laughter)
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PM: 我可不这么想。
04:21
NA: But it just helps tell
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NA: 这帮助人们了解
04:24
that some people are change agents
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一些人在社会中
04:26
in the society.
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是变革的推动者。
04:28
And when I became editor-in-chief
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当我成为主编的时候,
04:30
after my brother actually --
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事实上是在我哥哥之后——
04:32
my father passed away in 1999,
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我父亲在1999年去世,
04:34
and then my brother until 2005 --
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之后到2005年一直是我哥哥作主编——
04:36
and everybody was betting that I will not be able to do it.
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所有人都打赌说,我做不下来。
04:39
"What's this young girl coming in and showing off
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“这个年轻的女孩儿想干吗?跑过来显摆,
04:42
because it's her family business," or something.
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就因为这是她家的报纸,”之类的话。
04:45
It was very hard at first.
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刚开始非常困难。
04:47
I didn't want to clash with people.
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我不想和别人发生冲突。
04:49
But with all due respect
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但是恕我直言,
04:51
to all the men, and the older men especially,
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男人们,特别是年长的男人,
04:54
they did not want me around.
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他们不想看到我。
04:57
It was very hard, you know,
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你知道,要树立我的权威
04:59
to impose my authority.
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非常得困难。
05:03
But a woman's got to do what a woman's got to do.
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但是一个女人必须要做一个女人需要做的事。
05:07
(Applause)
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(掌声)
05:12
And in the first year,
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第一年中,
05:14
I had to fire half of the men.
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我不得不解雇了报社里一半的男人。
05:16
(Laughter)
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(笑)
05:18
(Applause)
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(掌声)
05:22
Brought in more women.
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招聘更多的女人。
05:25
Brought in younger men.
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招进更多更年轻的男人。
05:27
And we have a more gender-balanced newsroom today.
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现在新闻室里有了更加平衡的男女比例。
05:31
The other thing is that it's about professionalism.
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我还需要做到专业。
05:34
It's about proving who you are and what you can do.
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你需要证明你是谁,你能做什么。
05:37
And I don't know if I'm going to be boasting now,
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我不知道这算不算是吹嘘,
05:40
but in 2006 alone,
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但仅在2006年一年中,
05:43
we won three international awards.
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我们就获得了三项国际奖项。
05:45
One of them is the IPI
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其中之一是国际新闻学会的
05:47
Free Media Pioneer Award.
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自由媒体先锋奖。
05:49
So that was the answer
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这是我们对所有也门人
05:51
to all the Yemeni people.
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的回答。
05:53
And I want to score a point here,
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在这儿我想打个岔,
05:55
because my husband is in the room over there.
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因为我的丈夫就坐在会场那边。
05:57
If you could please stand up, [unclear].
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请你站起来好么。[不清晰]
06:01
He has been very supportive of me.
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他一直非常支持我。
06:04
(Applause)
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(掌声)
06:08
PM: And we should point out
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PM: 我们应该指出
06:10
that he works with you as well at the paper.
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他也和你一起在报社工作。
06:13
But in assuming this responsibility
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通过接手和主编报纸,
06:15
and going about it as you have,
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就如你已经做了的那样,
06:17
you have become a bridge
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你成了沟通社会的桥梁,
06:19
between an older and traditional society
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连接着一个更为古老的传统社会
06:23
and the one that you are now creating at the paper.
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和一个你正在报社创造的社会。
06:26
And so along with changing who worked there,
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在改变报社员工的过程中,
06:29
you must have come up against another positioning
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你一定不得不对抗另一个定位。
06:32
that we always run into, in particular with women,
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这个定位我们总会碰到,特别是女性,
06:35
and it has to do with outside image,
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它是关于外在的形象、
06:38
dress, the veiled woman.
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着装,戴面纱的妇女。
06:40
So how have you dealt with this
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你是如何处理这个问题的,
06:42
on a personal level
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从个人的角度
06:44
as well as the women who worked for you?
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以及为你工作的其他女性的角度?
06:46
NA: As you know,
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NA: 正如大家所知,
06:48
the image of a lot of Yemeni women is a lot of black
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许多也门妇女的形象都是身着黑衣、
06:50
and covered, veiled women.
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佩戴面纱。
06:52
And this is true.
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这是事实。
06:54
And a lot of it is
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很大程度上,这是
06:56
because women are not able, are not free,
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因为女性不能够、不被允许
06:58
to show their face to their self.
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向她们自己展示自己的面孔。
07:00
It's a lot of traditional imposing
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这是来自权威,
07:02
coming by authority figures
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比如说男人、祖父母等人的
07:04
such as the men, the grandparents and so on.
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传统的施压。
07:07
And it's economic empowerment
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如果一个女人能说,
07:09
and the ability for a woman to say,
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“我对这个家庭的贡献和你一样大,
07:11
"I am as much contributing to this family, or more,
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甚至大于你。”
07:14
than you are."
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这会在经济上鼓励妇女。
07:16
And the more empowered the women become,
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女性得到的激励越大,
07:20
the more they are able to remove the veil, for example,
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她们就越有能力去,比如说,摘掉面纱,
07:23
or to drive their own car
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或者自己驾车,
07:25
or to have a job or to be able to travel.
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或者工作,或者旅游。
07:27
So the other face of Yemen
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也门的另一面
07:30
is actually one
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其实
07:32
that lies behind the veil,
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藏在面纱之后。
07:34
and it's economic empowerment mostly
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允许女性摘掉面纱,
07:37
that allows the woman to just uncover it.
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会在经济上给予她们极大的激励。
07:39
And I have done this throughout my work.
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在我的工作上我一直在这样做。
07:42
I've tried to encourage young girls.
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我一直鼓励年轻女孩儿们摘掉面纱。
07:44
We started with, you can take it off in the office.
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开始我说,在办公室里你们可以不戴面纱。
07:48
And then after that, you can take it off on assignments.
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之后我说,在采访的时候你们也可以不戴面纱。
07:51
Because I didn't believe a journalist can be a journalist with --
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因为我认为你戴着面纱就不可能作记者——
07:54
how can you talk to people if you have your face covered? --
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你怎么可能遮着脸和别人谈话?——
07:57
and so on; it's just a movement.
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等等; 另外
07:59
And I am a role model in Yemen.
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在也门我是个榜样。
08:01
A lot of people look up to me.
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很多人钦佩我。
08:03
A lot of young girls look up to me.
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很多年轻的女孩儿钦佩我。
08:05
And I need to prove to them that, yes, you can still be married,
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我要证明给他们看,你仍然可以结婚,
08:07
you can still be a mother,
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你仍然能成为一个母亲,
08:09
and you can still be respected within the society,
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仍然可以在社会上得到尊重,
08:11
but at the same time,
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但与此同时,
08:13
that doesn't mean you [should] just be one of the crowd.
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这并不意味着你必须与众人一样。
08:16
You can be yourself and have your face.
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你可以作你自己,你可以展露你的面孔。
08:19
PM: But by putting yourself personally out there --
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PM: 但是你这样身先士卒——
08:23
both projecting a different image
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不仅展示了一个不一样的
08:25
of Yemeni women,
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也门女性的形象,
08:27
but also what you have made possible
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还给在报纸工作的女性
08:29
for the women who work at the paper --
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创造了许多可能——
08:32
has this put you in personal danger?
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会不会把自己置于危险之中?
08:36
NA: Well the Yemen Times, across 20 years,
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NA: 20年来《也门时报》
08:39
has been through so much.
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经历了许多跌宕起伏。
08:41
We've suffered prosecution;
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我们遭遇过迫害;
08:43
the paper was closed down more than three times.
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报社三次被迫关闭。
08:45
It's an independent newspaper,
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《也门时报》是份独立报纸,
08:48
but tell that to the people in charge.
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可是当权者可不这么想。
08:50
They think that if there's anything against them,
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他们觉得如果我们刊登了反对他们的东西,
08:53
then we are being an opposition newspaper.
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我们就是反对派报纸。
08:57
And very, very difficult times.
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我们还经历过非常、非常艰难的时期。
09:00
Some of my reporters were arrested.
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我们的一些记者被逮捕过。
09:02
We had some court cases.
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我们打过数次官司。
09:04
My father was assassinated.
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我的父亲被刺杀。
09:06
Today, we are in a much better situation.
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现在我们的处境比过去好多了。
09:09
We've created the credibility.
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我们树立了很好的信誉。
09:11
And in times of revolution or change like today,
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在像现在这样的革命或者变革时期,
09:14
it is very important for independent media to have a voice.
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独立媒体要勇于报导,这点非常重要。
09:18
It's very important
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你们访问《也门时报》的网站,YemenTimes.com,
09:20
for you to go to YemenTimes.com,
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这非常重要。
09:22
and it's very important
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你们倾听我们的声音,
09:24
to listen to our voice.
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这非常重要。
09:27
And this is probably something
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有一点
09:29
I'm going to share with you
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我想和大家说的是
09:31
in Western media probably --
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恐怕在西方媒体——
09:33
and how there's a lot of stereotypes --
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有很多成见——
09:37
thinking of Yemen in one single frame:
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用一个模子看也门,
09:40
this is what Yemen is all about.
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认为这就是也门的全部。
09:43
And that's not fair.
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这不公平。
09:45
It's not fair for me; it's not fair for my country.
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这对我不公平,对我的国家不公平。
09:47
A lot of reporters come to Yemen
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很多记者来到也门
09:49
and they want to write a story on Al-Qaeda or terrorism.
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一门心思地想报导“基地”组织或者恐怖主义。
09:52
And I just wanted to share with you:
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我想给大家讲个真人真事:
09:56
there's one reporter that came.
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有个记者到了也门。
09:58
He wanted to do a documentary
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他本来打算
10:00
on what his editors wanted.
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按他的编辑希望的那样做纪录片。
10:04
And he ended up writing about a story that even surprised me --
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但他后来的纪录片内容让我都大吃一惊——
10:07
hip hop --
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嘻哈——
10:09
that there are young Yemeni men
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一些也门年轻男性
10:12
who express themselves
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通过跳舞和“puchu puchu(嘻哈的节奏)”
10:14
through dancing and puchu puchu.
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来表现自己。
10:17
(Laughter)
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(笑)
10:19
That thing. (PM: Rap. Break dancing.)
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那一类东西。(PM: 说唱。霹雳舞。)
10:22
Yeah, break dancing.
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对,霹雳舞。
10:24
I'm not so old.
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我没有老掉牙。
10:27
I'm just not in touch.
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我只是与外界隔绝。
10:29
(Laughter)
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(笑)
10:31
(Applause)
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(掌声)
10:34
PM: Yes, you are.
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PM: 对,是这样。
10:36
Actually, that's a documentary
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事实上,我们可以在网络上
10:38
that's available online; the video's online.
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找到这个纪录片;这个片子被传到网上了。
10:41
NA: ShaketheDust.org.
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NA: 网址是:ShaketheDust.org。
10:43
PM: "Shake the Dust." (NA: "Shake the Dust.")
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PM: 网站名字的英文意思是“掸去灰尘”。(NA: “掸去灰尘”。)
10:46
PM: ShaketheDust.org.
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PM: ShaketheDust.org。
10:48
And it definitely does give a different image of Yemen.
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它确实展示了一个不一样的也门形象。
10:51
You spoke about the responsibility of the press.
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之前你提到了媒体的责任。
10:54
And certainly, when we look
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诚然,我们看到
10:57
at the ways in which we have separated ourselves from others
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我们把自己和其他人分隔开,
11:00
and we've created fear
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我们制造恐惧
11:02
and danger,
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和危险,
11:04
often from lack of knowledge,
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往往因为缺乏信息,
11:06
lack of real understanding,
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缺乏真正的了解,
11:08
how do you see
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那你是怎么看待
11:10
the way that the Western press in particular
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西方媒体在报道这件事上
11:13
is covering this and all other stories out of the region,
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以及所有其他发生在这个地区的事情的方式,
11:16
but in particular, in your country?
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特别是发生在你的国家的事?
11:18
NA: Well there is a saying that says,
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NA: 有句谚语说:
11:21
"You fear what you don't know,
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“未知带来恐惧,
11:23
and you hate what you fear."
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恐惧带来厌恨。”
11:26
So it's about the lack of research, basically.
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这基本上说的就是缺乏考证。
11:29
It's almost, "Do your homework," --
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基本上是,“要做功课。”——
11:32
some involvement.
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要投入进去。
11:34
And you cannot do parachute reporting --
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你不能只做跳伞报道——
11:37
just jump into a country for two days
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空投到一个国家,呆上两天,
11:40
and think that you've done your homework and a story.
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就以为你的功课做好了,你的报道写成了。
11:43
So I wish
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所以我希望
11:45
that the world would know my Yemen,
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世界可以了解我的也门,
11:47
my country, my people.
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我的国家,我的人民。
11:50
I am an example, and there are others like me.
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我就是个例子,还有其他像我一样的人。
11:53
We may not be that many,
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我们这样的人也许不是很多,
11:55
but if we are promoted
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但如果我们作为好的、积极的例子
11:57
as a good, positive example,
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被倡导,
12:00
there will be others -- men and women --
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就会有其他人——既有男人也有女人——
12:03
who can eventually bridge the gap --
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最终成为连接——
12:06
again, coming to the bridge --
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我又要说到桥了——
12:08
between Yemen and the world
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也门和世界之间的桥梁。
12:10
and telling first
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首先是
12:12
about recognition
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关于承认,
12:14
and then about communication
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然后是关于沟通
12:16
and compassion.
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和同情。
12:19
I think Yemen is going to be
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我认为,
12:21
in a very bad situation
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未来的两、三年,
12:24
in the next two or three years.
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也门将处境十分艰难。
12:26
It's natural.
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这是很正常的。
12:28
But after the two years, which is a price we are willing to pay,
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这是我们愿意付出的代价。但是两年之后,
12:31
we are going to stand up again on our feet,
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我们将重新站起,
12:34
but in the new Yemen
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站立于一个新的也门,
12:36
with a younger and more empowered people --
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一个充满了活泼有力的年轻人的也门,
12:39
democratic.
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一个民主的也门。
12:41
(Applause)
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(掌声)
12:49
PM: Nadia, I think you've just given us
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PM: Nadia,我觉得你刚才给了我们
12:51
a very different view of Yemen.
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关于也门非常不同的看法。
12:54
And certainly you yourself and what you do
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毫无疑问,你自己和你的事业
12:57
have given us a view of the future
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带给了我们对未来的展望。
13:00
that we will embrace
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我们对这样的未来充满期待,
13:03
and be grateful for.
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和感激。
13:05
And the very best of luck to you.
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祝你好运。
13:07
YemenTimes.com.
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YemenTimes.com。
13:10
NA: On Twitter also.
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NA: 《也门时报》还使用推特。
13:13
PM: So you are plugged in.
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PM: 你和外界连接畅通。
13:15
(Applause)
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(掌声)
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