Nadia Al-Sakkaf: See Yemen through my eyes

譯者: SHU-AN WU 審譯者: Chueh-chen Wang

Pat Mitchell: You have brought us images from the Yemen Times.

你今天帶來葉門時報中的一些照片

And take us through those,

藉由報中的照片

and introduce us to another Yemen.

帶領我們認識不一樣的葉門

Nadia Al-Sakkaf: Well, I'm glad to be here.

我很高興來到這裡

And I would like to share with you all

我想跟各位分享

some of the pictures that are happening today in Yemen.

照片中一些發生在葉門的真實故事

This picture shows a revolution

這張照片中是一場革命

started by women,

由女人所發起

and it shows women and men

但是在示威遊行的隊伍中

leading a mixed protest.

有男人也有女人

The other picture

另一張照片裡

is the popularity of the real need for change.

是渴求改變的一群人

So many people are there.

你可以看到人真的很多

The intensity of the upspring.

抗爭有多激烈

This picture shows that the revolution

這張照片能看到

has allowed opportunities for training,

革命帶給人們受訓的機會

for education.

以及受教育的機會

These women are learning about first aid

這群女人正在急救訓練

and their rights according to the constitution.

這是憲法所賦予她們的權力

I love this picture.

我很喜歡這張照片

I just wanted to show

我想用這張照片說明

that over 60 percent of the Yemeni population

六成以上的葉門人

are 15 years and below.

雖然年齡在十五歲以下

And they were excluded from decision-making,

不能參予國家政策的決策過程

and now they are in the forefront of the news,

他們卻站在新聞最前線

raising the flag.

高舉國旗

English --

英文標語

you will see, this is jeans

你們看，這是件牛仔褲

and tights,

和一件緊身衣

and an English expression --

上面寫了英文標語

the ability to share with the world

展現他們有能力向世界訴說

what is going on in our own country.

我們國內正在發生什麼

And expression also,

同時也展現了

it has brought talents.

他們的聰明才智

Yemenis are using cartoons

葉門人用卡通,

and art,

藝術,

paintings, comics,

畫作、漫畫

to tell the world and each other

告訴全世界以及彼此

about what's going on.

葉門的故事

Obviously, there's always the dark side of it.

誠然，任何事情都有其黑暗面

And this is just one of the less-gruesome pictures

這算是革命照片中

of the revolution

血腥程度較輕的一張照片

and the cost that we have to pay.

也是我們所付出的代價

The solidarity

眾志成城

of millions of Yemenis across the country

上百萬來自國內四方的葉門人

just demanding the one thing.

為革命齊聚一堂

And finally, lots of people are saying

最後，很多人在說

that Yemen's revolution

葉門的革命

is going to break the country.

將會撕裂這個國家

Is it going to be so many different countries?

葉門會分裂成許多國家嗎?

Is it going to be another Somalia?

會成為另一個索馬利亞嗎?

But we want to tell the world that, no,

我們要告訴世界，答案是「不」

under the one flag, we'll still remain as Yemeni people.

仰望同一面國旗，我們以後仍然是葉門人

PM: Thank you for those images, Nadia.

謝謝你帶來的照片，納迪亞

And they do, in many ways,

這些各式各樣的照片

tell a different story

確實呈現了葉門不同的面貌

than the story of Yemen,

而非那一個

the one that is often in the news.

我們常在新聞裡看到的葉門

And yet, you yourself

說到妳自身

defy all those characterizations.

就很與眾不同

So let's talk about the personal story for a moment.

讓我們談一下妳的個人故事

Your father is murdered.

妳父親遭人殺害

The Yemen Times already has

他所創立的葉門時報

a strong reputation in Yemen

當時已經在葉門享有盛名

as an independent English language newspaper.

作為獨立發行的英文報紙

How did you then

妳當初是如何

make the decision and assume the responsibilities

決定扛起重任

of running a newspaper,

經營這一家報社

especially in such times of conflict?

尤其還是在如此動盪的時期？

NA: Well, let me first warn you

我要先說

that I'm not the traditional Yemeni girl.

我可不是傳統的葉門女孩

I've guessed you've already noticed this by now.

這點我想各位早就發現了

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

In Yemen, most women are veiled

在葉門，一般女人都戴著面紗

and they are sitting behind doors

隱身在門後

and not very much part of the public life.

對公眾事務參與不多

But there's so much potential.

但她們潛力無窮

I wish I could show you my Yemen.

我希望能讓各位瞭解我認識的葉門

I wish you could see

希望各位透過我的眼

Yemen through my eyes.

看看我眼中的葉門

Then you would know

你們就會明白

that there's so much to it.

葉門絕對不只如此

And I was privileged because I was born into a family,

我很幸運出生在一個特別的家庭

my father would always encourage the boys and the girls.

我父親總是鼓勵我們兄弟姊妹

He would say we are equal.

男女平等

And he was such an extraordinary man.

他是個了不起的人

And even my mother -- I owe it to my family.

我母親也是--這一切都歸功於我的家庭

A story:

我要從故事的開始說起

I studied in India.

我在印度求學

And in my third year, I started becoming confused

大三時，我開始感到困惑

because I was Yemeni,

因為我是葉門人

but I was also mixing up

卻和印度人一起生活

with a lot of my friends in college.

我的一群大學朋友都是印度人

And I went back home and I said,

於是回到家後我說

"Daddy, I don't know who I am.

「爸爸，我不知道我是誰」

I'm not a Yemeni; I'm not an Indian."

「我不是葉門人，卻也不是印度人」

And he said, "You are the bridge."

他說：「你是我們和他們之間的橋梁』

And that is something I will keep in my heart forever.

這件事我永生難忘

So since then I've been the bridge,

從那時起，我把自己當作橋梁

and a lot of people have walked over me.

許多人從我身上走過

PM: I don't think so. (Laughter)

不是這樣吧

NA: But it just helps tell

但這個說法確實說明

that some people are change agents

有些人正是社會中

in the society.

推動改變的齒輪

And when I became editor-in-chief

在我當上主編的時候

after my brother actually --

在我哥過世之後

my father passed away in 1999,

我父親於1999年去世

and then my brother until 2005 --

然後我哥於2005年過世

and everybody was betting that I will not be able to do it.

期間眾人都打賭我做不到

"What's this young girl coming in and showing off

「這女孩要來賣弄什麼?」

because it's her family business," or something.

「就因為那是她家的企業」之類的

It was very hard at first.

一開始真的很辛苦

I didn't want to clash with people.

我不想與人衝突

But with all due respect

可是，我必須很恭敬地說

to all the men, and the older men especially,

尤其是那些男人，特別是年長的男人

they did not want me around.

他們都不想和我工作

It was very hard, you know,

當時要建立我的權威

to impose my authority.

真的非常難

But a woman's got to do what a woman's got to do.

但我一個女人該怎麼做，就要怎麼做

(Applause)

(掌聲)

And in the first year,

第一年

I had to fire half of the men.

我革職了一半男性職員

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

(Applause)

(掌聲)

Brought in more women.

吸收更多女職員

Brought in younger men.

吸收年輕的男性

And we have a more gender-balanced newsroom today.

編輯部現在的男女比例平衡多了

The other thing is that it's about professionalism.

我要做的另一件事是建立「專業」

It's about proving who you are and what you can do.

就是要證明你是誰、你能做什麼

And I don't know if I'm going to be boasting now,

現在聽來可能有點像在吹噓

but in 2006 alone,

不過光是在2006年

we won three international awards.

我們就贏得了三座國際大獎

One of them is the IPI

包括國際新聞協會頒發的

Free Media Pioneer Award.

自由媒體先鋒獎

So that was the answer

這個獎正是我們

to all the Yemeni people.

獻給所有葉門人的答案

And I want to score a point here,

在此我想特別講一件事

because my husband is in the room over there.

因為我先生在那邊

If you could please stand up, [unclear].

你可以站起來嗎?

He has been very supportive of me.

他一直很支持我

(Applause)

(掌聲)

PM: And we should point out

我們要指出一點

that he works with you as well at the paper.

就是你先生也協助你發行報紙

But in assuming this responsibility

就妳所扛下責任這一點

and going about it as you have,

以及妳做事的方式

you have become a bridge

妳已成為了一座橋梁

between an older and traditional society

連結傳統舊社會

and the one that you are now creating at the paper.

以及用報紙所開創出來的新社會

And so along with changing who worked there,

你在人事上代舊換新時

you must have come up against another positioning

一定再次進行了人事調動

that we always run into, in particular with women,

如此免不了碰到問題，特別在女性工作上

and it has to do with outside image,

也要注意外界觀感

dress, the veiled woman.

服裝，女人的面紗等問題

So how have you dealt with this

妳是如何處理這些問題?

on a personal level

妳自己個人又是怎麼做?

as well as the women who worked for you?

以及那些為妳工作的女性職員?

NA: As you know,

如妳所知

the image of a lot of Yemeni women is a lot of black

一般人對葉門女人的印象是穿一身黑

and covered, veiled women.

遮住全身，臉蓋面紗

And this is true.

這是事實

And a lot of it is

多半是因為

because women are not able, are not free,

女人不被允許

to show their face to their self.

自由以面示人

It's a lot of traditional imposing

權威人士對女性加諸

coming by authority figures

許多傳統禮教

such as the men, the grandparents and so on.

包括男人和祖父母等

And it's economic empowerment

改變要靠經濟賦權

and the ability for a woman to say,

並給予女人權利說出

"I am as much contributing to this family, or more,

「我對家庭的貢獻等同，

than you are."

甚至超過你們」

And the more empowered the women become,

女人能擁有的權力越多

the more they are able to remove the veil, for example,

就越能夠摘去面紗，例如

or to drive their own car

開自己的車，

or to have a job or to be able to travel.

有自己的工作，自己去旅行

So the other face of Yemen

因此，葉門的另一面

is actually one

事實上

that lies behind the veil,

隱身在面紗之後

and it's economic empowerment mostly

大多得靠經濟賦權

that allows the woman to just uncover it.

才能讓女人拋去面紗

And I have done this throughout my work.

我用我的工作做到了

I've tried to encourage young girls.

這是我一直鼓勵年輕女孩這樣做

We started with, you can take it off in the office.

首先第一步，妳能在辦公室內取下面紗

And then after that, you can take it off on assignments.

後來，連採訪時也能取下

Because I didn't believe a journalist can be a journalist with --

因為我不認為作為記者,

how can you talk to people if you have your face covered? --

記者難道能遮著臉和人講話?

and so on; it's just a movement.

就這樣一步一步前進

And I am a role model in Yemen.

我就是葉門女人的典範

A lot of people look up to me.

很多人尊敬我

A lot of young girls look up to me.

很多年輕女孩景仰我

And I need to prove to them that, yes, you can still be married,

我要向她們證明：妳還是能結婚

you can still be a mother,

妳還是能成為母親

and you can still be respected within the society,

妳也一樣能在社會上受到尊重

but at the same time,

同時間

that doesn't mean you [should] just be one of the crowd.

這不代表妳應該和別人一樣

You can be yourself and have your face.

妳可以做你自己，以面示人

PM: But by putting yourself personally out there --

妳以自身為例

both projecting a different image

既賦予葉門女人

of Yemeni women,

新的面貌

but also what you have made possible

同時讓女人在報社工作

for the women who work at the paper --

成為可能

has this put you in personal danger?

這是否曾危害妳的個人安全?

NA: Well the Yemen Times, across 20 years,

葉門時報過去20年來

has been through so much.

經歷了大風大浪

We've suffered prosecution;

我們曾遭受控告

the paper was closed down more than three times.

報社遭關閉超過三次

It's an independent newspaper,

就算我們說我們是獨立報社

but tell that to the people in charge.

對掌權的人這樣講

They think that if there's anything against them,

他們認為只要對他們不利

then we are being an opposition newspaper.

我們就是反對派的報社

And very, very difficult times.

那時候真的很難熬

Some of my reporters were arrested.

我的一些記者被逮捕

We had some court cases.

我們要跑法院

My father was assassinated.

我父親被暗殺

Today, we are in a much better situation.

我們現在好多了

We've created the credibility.

我們已經建立了威信

And in times of revolution or change like today,

每當面臨革命，或是像今天這樣的改變

it is very important for independent media to have a voice.

獨立媒體能夠發聲非常重要

It's very important

重要在於

for you to go to YemenTimes.com,

各位能上YemenTimes.com的網站

and it's very important

重要在於

to listen to our voice.

能聽見我們自己的聲音

And this is probably something

這些就是

I'm going to share with you

我想和你們分享的

in Western media probably --

西方媒體

and how there's a lot of stereotypes --

可能會有很多刻板印象

thinking of Yemen in one single frame:

用單一想法來看葉門

this is what Yemen is all about.

認為葉門就是如此

And that's not fair.

而這不公平

It's not fair for me; it's not fair for my country.

對我，對我的國家都不公平

A lot of reporters come to Yemen

很多記者到葉門

and they want to write a story on Al-Qaeda or terrorism.

是來寫蓋達組織和恐怖行動的報導

And I just wanted to share with you:

我想和你們分享的是

there's one reporter that came.

有一個記者來葉門

He wanted to do a documentary

是想要做記錄片報導

on what his editors wanted.

是他的編輯要他做的

And he ended up writing about a story that even surprised me --

他最後寫了一篇連我都驚豔的報導

hip hop --

關於嘻哈

that there are young Yemeni men

葉門年輕人

who express themselves

表達自己的方式

through dancing and puchu puchu.

是跳舞和puchu puchu

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

That thing. (PM: Rap. Break dancing.)

饒舌和地板舞

Yeah, break dancing.

是啊，地板舞

I'm not so old.

我沒那麼老

I'm just not in touch.

只是不常接觸這些

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

(Applause)

(掌聲)

PM: Yes, you are.

是啊

Actually, that's a documentary

其實那支紀錄片

that's available online; the video's online.

網路上看得到，影片被上傳到網路

NA: ShaketheDust.org.

網址是ShaketheDust.org

PM: "Shake the Dust." (NA: "Shake the Dust.")

"Shake the Dust"

PM: ShaketheDust.org.

ShaketheDust.org

And it definitely does give a different image of Yemen.

它絕對呈現了葉門的不同風貌

You spoke about the responsibility of the press.

你剛談到新聞媒體的責任

And certainly, when we look

確實，當我們檢視

at the ways in which we have separated ourselves from others

自身是如何區隔異己

and we've created fear

我們發現這樣帶來了恐懼

and danger,

也帶來危險

often from lack of knowledge,

這麼做通常是基於無知

lack of real understanding,

及缺少真實體會

how do you see

妳怎麼看媒體

the way that the Western press in particular

尤其是西方媒體

is covering this and all other stories out of the region,

書寫別國新聞的方式

but in particular, in your country?

尤其，怎麼寫妳的國家?

NA: Well there is a saying that says,

俗話說得好

"You fear what you don't know,

「未知帶來恐懼」

and you hate what you fear."

「恐懼帶來憎恨」

So it's about the lack of research, basically.

基本上他們缺少實地考察

It's almost, "Do your homework," --

幾乎都是「交作業」心態

some involvement.

來報導

And you cannot do parachute reporting --

你不能趕著截稿匆匆就筆

just jump into a country for two days

在一個國家待兩天

and think that you've done your homework and a story.

就覺得作業做完了，報導寫好了

So I wish

因此我希望

that the world would know my Yemen,

這個世界能認識我的葉門

my country, my people.

我的國家和人民

I am an example, and there are others like me.

我是一個例子，也有別人和我一樣

We may not be that many,

我們或許人還不夠多

but if we are promoted

但如果我們能精進自己

as a good, positive example,

成為好的、正向的例子

there will be others -- men and women --

就會有越來越多男男女女

who can eventually bridge the gap --

最終能消除代溝

again, coming to the bridge --

我再次強調，一旦上了橋

between Yemen and the world

就能將葉門和全世界接軌

and telling first

首先

about recognition

彼此認識

and then about communication

而後溝通

and compassion.

有同理心

I think Yemen is going to be

我認為葉門接下來

in a very bad situation

處境會非常艱困

in the next two or three years.

未來兩三年間都是如此

It's natural.

這很自然

But after the two years, which is a price we are willing to pay,

可是兩年後，只要我們願意付出代價

we are going to stand up again on our feet,

我們就能再一次用自己的雙腳站立

but in the new Yemen

在新的葉門

with a younger and more empowered people --

我們會有更年輕，更強壯的人民

democratic.

和民主

(Applause)

(掌聲)

PM: Nadia, I think you've just given us

納迪亞，我想你剛給了我們

a very different view of Yemen.

一個非常特別的葉門觀點

And certainly you yourself and what you do

你自己和你做的事

have given us a view of the future

確實讓我們看到了未來

that we will embrace

我們將擁抱那個未來

and be grateful for.

並感激地接受它

And the very best of luck to you.

祝妳好運

YemenTimes.com.

葉門時報網站:YemenTimes.com

NA: On Twitter also.

推特上也看得到

PM: So you are plugged in.

妳有跟上流行嘛

(Applause)

(掌聲)