Matthieu Ricard: How to let altruism be your guide

Prevodilac: Ivana Krivokuća Lektor: Mile Živković

So we humans have an extraordinary potential for goodness,

Mi ljudi imamo izuzetan potencijal za dobrotu,

but also an immense power to do harm.

ali takođe i neizmernu moć da naškodimo.

Any tool can be used to build or to destroy.

Bilo koji alat može se koristiti da gradi ili da uništi.

That all depends on our motivation.

To zavisi od naše motivacije.

Therefore, it is all the more important

Prema tome, važno je

to foster an altruistic motivation rather than a selfish one.

negovati altruističku motivaciju pre nego sebičnu.

So now we indeed are facing many challenges in our times.

Zaista se suočavamo sa mnogim izazovima u današnje vreme.

To mogu biti izazovi lične prirode.

Those could be personal challenges.

Our own mind can be our best friend or our worst enemy.

Naš sopstveni um

može biti naš najbolji prijatelj ili najgori neprijatelj.

There's also societal challenges:

Tu su i društveni izazovi:

poverty in the midst of plenty, inequalities, conflict, injustice.

siromaštvo usred obilja, nejednakosti, konflikti, nepravda.

And then there are the new challenges, which we don't expect.

Zatim tu su novi izazovi koje nismo očekivali.

Ten thousand years ago, there were about five million human beings on Earth.

Pre deset hiljada godina, na Zemlji je bilo oko pet miliona ljudskih bića.

Whatever they could do,

Šta god da bi uradili,

the Earth's resilience would soon heal human activities.

otpornost Zemlje bi ubrzo popravila ljudsko dejstvo.

After the Industrial and Technological Revolutions,

Nakon industrijske i tehnološke revolucije,

that's not the same anymore.

to više nije isto.

We are now the major agent of impact on our Earth.

Mi smo sada najveći faktor uticaja na našoj Zemlji.

We enter the Anthropocene, the era of human beings.

Ulazimo u antropocen, eru ljudskih bića.

So in a way, if we were to say we need to continue this endless growth,

Na neki način,

ako kažemo da moramo da nastavimo sa ovim beskonačnim razvojem,

endless use of material resources,

beskonačnim korišćenjem materijalnih resursa,

it's like if this man was saying --

to je kao kad bi ovaj čovek rekao -

and I heard a former head of state, I won't mention who, saying --

a čuo sam bivšeg vođu države, neću reći kog, kako govori -

"Five years ago, we were at the edge of the precipice.

"Pre pet godina smo bili na ivici provalije.

Today we made a big step forward."

Danas činimo veliki korak napred."

So this edge is the same that has been defined by scientists

Ova ivica je isto ono što su naučnici definisali

as the planetary boundaries.

kao planetarna ograničenja.

And within those boundaries, they can carry a number of factors.

A u okviru tih ograničenja može se nalaziti bezbroj faktora.

We can still prosper, humanity can still prosper for 150,000 years

Još možemo da napredujemo,

čovečanstvo može da napreduje još 150 000 godina

if we keep the same stability of climate

ako održimo istu stabilnost klime

as in the Holocene for the last 10,000 years.

kao u holocenu poslednjih 10 000 godina.

But this depends on choosing a voluntary simplicity,

Ali ovo zavisi od odabira dobrovoljne jednostavnosti,

growing qualitatively, not quantitatively.

razvijanja kvalitativno, ne kvantitativno.

So in 1900, as you can see, we were well within the limits of safety.

1900. godine, kao što vidite, bili smo u okvirima sigurnosti.

Now, in 1950 came the great acceleration.

1950. godine je došlo veliko ubrzanje.

Now hold your breath, not too long, to imagine what comes next.

Sada zadržite dah, ne predugo, da zamislite šta sledi.

Now we have vastly overrun some of the planetary boundaries.

Sada smo znatno prešli neke od planetarnih ograničenja.

Just to take biodiversity, at the current rate,

Ako uzmemo samo bioraznolikost, trenutnom stopom,

by 2050, 30 percent of all species on Earth will have disappeared.

do 2050. godine, 30 posto svih vrsta na Zemlji će nestati.

Even if we keep their DNA in some fridge, that's not going to be reversible.

Čak i ako sačuvamo njihovu DNK u nekom frižideru, to se neće preokrenuti.

So here I am sitting

Evo mene kako sedim

in front of a 7,000-meter-high, 21,000-foot glacier in Bhutan.

ispred lednika u Butanu visokog 7 000 metara.

At the Third Pole, 2,000 glaciers are melting fast, faster than the Arctic.

Na Trećem polu se 2 000 lednika ubrzano topi, brže nego na Arktiku.

So what can we do in that situation?

Šta možemo da učinimo u toj situaciji?

Well, however complex politically, economically, scientifically

Pa, koliko god da je složeno politički, ekonomski, naučno,

the question of the environment is,

pitanje životne sredine,

it simply boils down to a question of altruism versus selfishness.

jednostavno se svodi na pitanje altruizma naspram sebičnosti.

I'm a Marxist of the Groucho tendency.

Ja sam marksista sa Graučo tendencijom.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Groucho Marx said, "Why should I care about future generations?

Graučo Marks je rekao: "Zašto bi me bilo briga za buduće generacije?"

What have they ever done for me?"

Šta su one ikad uradile za mene?"

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Unfortunately, I heard the billionaire Steve Forbes,

Nažalost, čuo sam milijardera Stiva Forbsa,

on Fox News, saying exactly the same thing, but seriously.

na Foks vestima, kako govori istu stvar, ali ozbiljno.

He was told about the rise of the ocean,

Rečeno mu je za podizanje nivoa okeana,

and he said, "I find it absurd to change my behavior today

a on je rekao: "Smatram da je apsurdno da menjam svoje ponašanje danas

for something that will happen in a hundred years."

zbog nečega što će se dogoditi za sto godina."

So if you don't care for future generations,

Tako da, ako vas nije briga za buduće generacije,

just go for it.

samo nastavite.

So one of the main challenges of our times

Jedan od najvećih izazova u naše vreme

is to reconcile three time scales:

jeste pomiriti tri vremenska merila:

the short term of the economy,

kratkoročno ekonomsko,

the ups and downs of the stock market, the end-of-the-year accounts;

uspone i padove na berzi, proračune na kraju godine;

the midterm of the quality of life --

srednjoročno vezano za kvalitet života -

what is the quality every moment of our life, over 10 years and 20 years? --

kakav je kvalitet svakog trenutka našeg života, tokom 10 i 20 godina? -

and the long term of the environment.

i dugoročno merilo životne sredine.

When the environmentalists speak with economists,

Kada ekolozi govore sa ekonomistima,

it's like a schizophrenic dialogue, completely incoherent.

to liči na šizofreni dijalog, potpuno nepovezan.

They don't speak the same language.

Oni ne govore istim jezikom.

Now, for the last 10 years, I went around the world

Poslednjih 10 godina, išao sam svetom

meeting economists, scientists, neuroscientists, environmentalists,

srećući se sa ekonomistima, naučnicima, neurolozima, ekolozima,

philosophers, thinkers in the Himalayas, all over the place.

filozofima, misliocima na Himalajima, svuda,

It seems to me, there's only one concept

Čini mi se da postoji samo jedan koncept

that can reconcile those three time scales.

koji može pomiriti ta tri vremenska merila.

It is simply having more consideration for others.

To je prosto imati više obzira prema drugima.

If you have more consideration for others, you will have a caring economics,

Ako imate više obzira prema drugima, imaćete ekonomiju kojoj je stalo,

where finance is at the service of society

gde su finansije u službi društva

and not society at the service of finance.

a nije društvo u službi finansija.

You will not play at the casino

Nećete igrati u kazinu

with the resources that people have entrusted you with.

sa sredstvima koja su vam ljudi poverili.

If you have more consideration for others,

Ako imate više obzira prema drugima,

you will make sure that you remedy inequality,

potrudićete se da otklanjate nejednakost,

that you bring some kind of well-being within society,

da dajete društvu neku vrstu dobrobiti,

in education, at the workplace.

u obrazovanju, na radnom mestu.

Otherwise, a nation that is the most powerful and the richest

U suprotnom, imate naciju koja je najmoćnija i najbogatija

but everyone is miserable, what's the point?

ali svi su nesrećni, pa ima li onda svrhe?

And if you have more consideration for others,

I ako imate više obzira prema drugima,

you are not going to ransack that planet that we have

nećete poremetiti planetu koju imamo

and at the current rate, we don't have three planets to continue that way.

trenutnom stopom, nemamo tri planete da bismo tako nastavili.

So the question is,

Dakle pitanje je,

okay, altruism is the answer, it's not just a novel ideal,

okej, altruizam je odgovor, to nije novi ideal,

but can it be a real, pragmatic solution?

ali može li biti realno, pragmatično rešenje?

And first of all, does it exist,

I pre svega, da li postoji

true altruism, or are we so selfish?

istinski altruizam ili smo toliko sebični?

So some philosophers thought we were irredeemably selfish.

Neki filozofi su smatrali da smo nepopravljivo sebični.

But are we really all just like rascals?

Ali da li smo stvarno svi nitkovi?

That's good news, isn't it?

To su dobre vesti, zar ne?

Many philosophers, like Hobbes, have said so.

Mnogi filozofi, poput Hobsa, su to govorili.

But not everyone looks like a rascal.

Ali ne izgleda svako kao nitkov.

Or is man a wolf for man?

Ili je čovek čoveku vuk?

But this guy doesn't seem too bad.

Ali ovaj tip ne izgleda tako loše.

He's one of my friends in Tibet.

On je jedan od mojih prijatelja na Tibetu.

He's very kind.

Veoma je dobar.

So now, we love cooperation.

Mi volimo saradnju.

There's no better joy than working together, is there?

Nema većeg zadovoljstva nego zajednički raditi, zar ne?

And then not only humans.

I to ne samo kod ljudi.

Then, of course, there's the struggle for life,

Zatim, naravno, tu je borba za život,

the survival of the fittest, social Darwinism.

preživljavanje najsposobnijih, socijalni darvinizam.

But in evolution, cooperation -- though competition exists, of course --

Ali u evoluciji, saradnja - mada nadmetanje postoji, naravno -

cooperation has to be much more creative to go to increased levels of complexity.

saradnja mora da bude mnogo kreativnija da bi se prešlo na veći nivo složenosti.

We are super-cooperators and we should even go further.

Mi smo super-saradnici i trebalo bi da još više napredujemo.

So now, on top of that, the quality of human relationships.

Povrh toga, kvalitet ljudskih odnosa.

The OECD did a survey among 10 factors, including income, everything.

OECD je obavio istraživanje sa 10 faktora, uključujući prihod, sve.

The first one that people said, that's the main thing for my happiness,

Prvo za šta su ljudi rekli da je to glavna stvar za njihovu sreću

is quality of social relationships.

je kvalitet društvenih odnosa.

Not only in humans.

Ne samo kod ljudi.

And look at those great-grandmothers.

Pogledajte te prabake.

So now, this idea that if we go deep within,

E sad, ta ideja da ako se zagledamo u dubinu,

we are irredeemably selfish,

nepopravljivo smo sebični,

this is armchair science.

to je pseudonauka.

There is not a single sociological study,

Ne postoji nijedno sociološko istraživanje,

psychological study, that's ever shown that.

psihološko istraživanje, koje je to ikada pokazalo.

Rather, the opposite.

Upravo suprotno.

My friend, Daniel Batson, spent a whole life

Moj prijatelj Danijel Betson je proveo čitav život

putting people in the lab in very complex situations.

stavljajući ljude u laboratoriji u vrlo složene situacije.

And of course we are sometimes selfish, and some people more than others.

Naravno da smo ponekad sebični, a neki ljudi više od drugih.

But he found that systematically, no matter what,

Ali on je otkrio da sistematično, bez obzira na sve,

there's a significant number of people

postoji značajan broj ljudi

who do behave altruistically, no matter what.

koji se ponašaju altruistično, šta god da se desi.

If you see someone deeply wounded, great suffering,

Ako vidite nekoga duboko ranjenog, u velikoj patnji,

you might just help out of empathic distress --

možda ćete pomoći samo iz empatične uznemirenosti -

you can't stand it, so it's better to help than to keep on looking at that person.

ne možete to podneti,

pa je bolje da pomognete nego da i dalje gledate tu osobu.

So we tested all that, and in the end, he said, clearly people can be altruistic.

Proverili smo sve to, i na kraju, rekao je,

jasno je da ljudi mogu biti altruistični.

To su dobre vesti.

So that's good news.

And even further, we should look at the banality of goodness.

Štaviše, trebalo bi da pogledamo banalnost dobrote.

Now look at here.

Pogledajte sad ovde.

When we come out, we aren't going to say, "That's so nice.

Kada izađemo, nećemo reći: "To je tako lepo.

There was no fistfight while this mob was thinking about altruism."

Nije bilo tuče dok je ova rulja mislila o altruizmu."

No, that's expected, isn't it?

Ne, to je očekivano, zar ne?

If there was a fistfight, we would speak of that for months.

Ako bi bilo tuče, pričali bismo o tome mesecima.

So the banality of goodness is something that doesn't attract your attention,

Banalnost dobrote je nešto što ne privlači vašu pažnju,

but it exists.

ali postoji.

Now, look at this.

Sada pogledajte ovo.

So some psychologists said,

Neki psiholozi su rekli,

when I tell them I run 140 humanitarian projects in the Himalayas

kada im kažem da vodim 140 humanitarnih projekata na Himalajima

that give me so much joy,

koji mi pružaju toliko radosti,

they said, "Oh, I see, you work for the warm glow.

kažu mi: "O, shvatam, radiš za osećaj topline.

That is not altruistic. You just feel good."

To nije altruistično. Samo se dobro osećaš."

You think this guy, when he jumped in front of the train,

Mislite da je ovaj tip, kada je skočio ispred voza,

he thought, "I'm going to feel so good when this is over?"

pomislio: "Da li ću se osećati dobro kada se ovo završi?"

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But that's not the end of it.

Ali to nije kraj.

They say, well, but when you interviewed him, he said,

Kažu, ali kada ste ga intervjuisali, rekao je:

"I had no choice. I had to jump, of course."

"Nisam imao izbora. Morao sam da skočim, naravno."

He has no choice. Automatic behavior. It's neither selfish nor altruistic.

Nije imao izbora. Automatizovano ponašanje.

Nije ni sebično ni altruistično.

No choice?

Nije imao izbora?

Well of course, this guy's not going to think for half an hour,

Pa naravno, ovaj tip neće da razmišlja pola sata:

"Should I give my hand? Not give my hand?"

"Da li da pružim ruku? Da li da ne pružim ruku?"

He does it. There is a choice, but it's obvious, it's immediate.

On to čini. Postoji izbor, ali je očigledno, u trenutku.

And then, also, there he had a choice.

I takođe, on je imao izbora.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

There are people who had choice, like Pastor André Trocmé and his wife,

Postoje ljudi koji su imali izbora,

kao što je pastor Andre Trokme i njegova žena,

and the whole village of Le Chambon-sur-Lignon in France.

i celo selo Le Šambon-sur-Linjon u Francuskoj.

For the whole Second World War, they saved 3,500 Jews,

Tokom celog Drugog svetskog rata spasili su 3500 Jevreja,

gave them shelter, brought them to Switzerland,

pružili im utocište, vratili ih u Švajcarsku,

against all odds, at the risk of their lives and those of their family.

suprotno svim očekivanjima, rizikujući svoje živote i živote svoje porodice.

So altruism does exist.

Dakle altruizam postoji.

So what is altruism?

Šta je altruizam?

It is the wish: May others be happy and find the cause of happiness.

To jr želja: neka drugi budu srećni i pronađu razlog za sreću.

Now, empathy is the affective resonance or cognitive resonance that tells you,

Empatija je afektivna rezonanca ili kognitivna rezonanca koja vam govori:

this person is joyful, this person suffers.

ova osoba je vesela, ova osoba pati.

But empathy alone is not sufficient.

Ali sama empatija nije dovoljna.

If you keep on being confronted with suffering,

Ako nastavljate da se suočavate sa patnjom,

you might have empathic distress, burnout,

možete imati empatijski slom, izgaranje,

so you need the greater sphere of loving-kindness.

pa vam treba veći delokrug dobrote.

With Tania Singer at the Max Planck Institute of Leipzig,

Sa Tanjom Singder i Maksom Plankom sa Instituta u Lajpcigu,

we showed that the brain networks for empathy and loving-kindness are different.

pokazali smo da su moždane mreže za empatiju i dobrotu različite.

Now, that's all well done,

To je sve dobro urađeno,

so we got that from evolution, from maternal care, parental love,

pa to dobijamo evolucijom, majčinskom negom, roditeljskom ljubavlju,

but we need to extend that.

ali moramo to da proširimo.

It can be extended even to other species.

Može se proširiti čak i na druge vrste.

Now, if we want a more altruistic society, we need two things:

Ako želimo altruističnije društvo, potrebne su nam dve stvari:

individual change and societal change.

individualna promena i društvena promena.

So is individual change possible?

Da li je individualna promena moguća?

Two thousand years of contemplative study said yes, it is.

Dve hiljade godina dubokoumnih istraživanja kažu da, moguća je.

Now, 15 years of collaboration with neuroscience and epigenetics

15 godina saradnje sa neurologijom i epigenetikom

said yes, our brains change when you train in altruism.

reklo je da, naši mozgovi se menjaju kada vežbamo altruizam.

So I spent 120 hours in an MRI machine.

Zato sam proveo 120 sati u MRI mašini.

This is the first time I went after two and a half hours.

Ovo je prvi put kada sam išao posle dva i po sata.

And then the result has been published in many scientific papers.

Zatim su rezultati objavljeni u mnogim naučnim časopisima.

It shows without ambiguity that there is structural change

Pokazuju nedvosmisleno da dolazi do strukturalne

and functional change in the brain when you train the altruistic love.

i funkcionalne promene u mozgu kada vežbate altruističnu ljubav.

Just to give you an idea:

Samo da imate predstavu:

this is the meditator at rest on the left,

ovo je meditator u mirovanju sa leve strane,

meditator in compassion meditation, you see all the activity,

meditator u saosećajnoj meditaciji, vidite sve aktivnosti,

and then the control group at rest, nothing happened,

i zatim kontrolna grupa u mirovanju, ništa se nije dogodilo,

in meditation, nothing happened.

u medijaciji, ništa se nije desilo.

They have not been trained.

Nisu se vežbali.

So do you need 50,000 hours of meditation? No, you don't.

Da li vam je potrebno 50 000 sati meditacije? Ne, nije.

Four weeks, 20 minutes a day, of caring, mindfulness meditation

Četiri nedelje, 20 minuta dnevno, brižne, svesne meditacije

already brings a structural change in the brain compared to a control group.

već donosi strukturalnu promenu mozga u poređenju sa kontrolnom grupom.

That's only 20 minutes a day for four weeks.

To je samo 20 minuta dnevno tokom četiri nedelje.

Even with preschoolers -- Richard Davidson did that in Madison.

Čak i kod predškolaca - Ričard Dejvidson je to uradio u Medisonu.

An eight-week program: gratitude, loving- kindness, cooperation, mindful breathing.

Osmonedeljni program: zahvalnost, dobrota, saradnja, svesno disanje.

You would say, "Oh, they're just preschoolers."

Reći ćete: "To su samo predškolci."

Look after eight weeks,

Pogledajte nakon osam nedelja,

the pro-social behavior, that's the blue line.

prosocijalno ponašanje, to je plava linija.

And then comes the ultimate scientific test, the stickers test.

I zatim dolazi glavni naučni test, test sa nalepnicama.

Before, you determine for each child who is their best friend in the class,

Najpre odredite za svako dete ko je njihov najbolji prijatelj u razredu,

their least favorite child, an unknown child, and the sick child,

najneomiljenije dete, nepoznato dete, bolesno dete,

and they have to give stickers away.

i morali su da daju nalepnice.

So before the intervention, they give most of it to their best friend.

Pre intervencije, daju njihov veći deo svom najboljem prijatelju.

Four, five years old, 20 minutes three times a week.

Deca od četiri, pet godina, 20 minuta, tri puta nedeljno.

After the intervention, no more discrimination:

Nakon intervencije, nema više diskriminacije:

the same amount of stickers to their best friend and the least favorite child.

ista količina nalepnica njhovom najboljem prijatelju i najneomiljenijem detetu.

That's something we should do in all the schools in the world.

To je nešto što bi trebalo da uradimo u svim školama na svetu.

Now where do we go from there?

Kuda sad idemo sa tim?

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

When the Dalai Lama heard that, he told Richard Davidson,

Kada je Dalaj Lama to čuo, rekao je Ričardu Dejvidsonu:

"You go to 10 schools, 100 schools, the U.N., the whole world."

"Idi u 10 škola, 100 škola, UN, ceo svet."

So now where do we go from there?

U kom pravcu sad idemo sa tim?

Individual change is possible.

Individualna promena je moguća.

Now do we have to wait for an altruistic gene to be in the human race?

Da li moramo da čekamo da se javi altruistički gen kod ljudskog roda?

That will take 50,000 years, too much for the environment.

Za to je potrebno 50 000 godina, previše za životnu sredinu.

Fortunately, there is the evolution of culture.

Srećom, postoji evolucija kulture.

Cultures, as specialists have shown, change faster than genes.

Kulture se, kako su specijalisti pokazali, menjaju brže od gena.

That's the good news.

To su dobre vesti.

Look, attitude towards war has dramatically changed over the years.

Vidite, stavovi prema ratu su se drastično izmenili proteklih godina.

So now individual change and cultural change mutually fashion each other,

Individualna promena i promene u kulturi se sada međusobno oblikuju,

and yes, we can achieve a more altruistic society.

i da, možemo postići altruističnije društvo.

So where do we go from there?

Kuda sad odavde?

Myself, I will go back to the East.

Što se mene tiče, vraćam se na istok. Sada pružamo tretman

Now we treat 100,000 patients a year in our projects.

za 100 000 pacijenata godišnje u našim projektima.

We have 25,000 kids in school, four percent overhead.

Imamo 25 000 dece u školi, četiri odsto dodatnih troškova.

Some people say, "Well, your stuff works in practice,

Neki će reći: "Pa, tvoje stvari deluju u praksi,

but does it work in theory?"

ali da li funkcionišu u teoriji?"

There's always positive deviance.

Uvek postoji pozitivno odstupanje.

So I will also go back to my hermitage

Takođe ću se vratiti u svoju ćeliju

to find the inner resources to better serve others.

da pronađem unutrašnja sredstva kako bih bolje služio drugima.

But on the more global level, what can we do?

Ali na globalnijem nivou, šta možemo da uradimo?

We need three things.

Potrebne su nam tri stvari.

Enhancing cooperation:

Poboljšanje saradnje:

Cooperative learning in the school instead of competitive learning,

kooperativno učenje u školi umesto kompetitivnog učenja.

Unconditional cooperation within corporations --

Bezuslovna saradnja unutar firmi -

there can be some competition between corporations, but not within.

može biti nadmetanja među firmama, ali ne i unutar.

We need sustainable harmony. I love this term.

Potrebna nam je održiva harmonija. Obožavam taj izraz.

Not sustainable growth anymore.

Ne više održivi razvoj.

Sustainable harmony means now we will reduce inequality.

Održiva harmonija znači da ćemo smanjiti nejednakost.

In the future, we do more with less,

Ubuduće, radimo više sa manje,

and we continue to grow qualitatively, not quantitatively.

i nastavljamo da se razvijamo kvalitativno, ne kvantitativno.

We need caring economics.

Potrebna nam je ekonomija kojoj je stalo.

The Homo economicus cannot deal with poverty in the midst of plenty,

Homo ekonomikus se ne može baviti siromaštvom usred obilja,

cannot deal with the problem of the common goods

ne može se baviti problemom zajedničkih dobara

of the atmosphere, of the oceans.

atmosfere, okeana.

Potrebna nam je ekonomija koja brine.

We need a caring economics.

If you say economics should be compassionate,

Ako kažete da ekonomija treba da bude saosećajna,

they say, "That's not our job."

oni kažu: "To nije naš posao."

But if you say they don't care, that looks bad.

Ali ako kažete da im nije stalo, to deluje loše.

We need local commitment, global responsibility.

Treba nam lokalna posvećenost, globalna odgovornost.

We need to extend altruism to the other 1.6 million species.

Treba da proširimo altruizam na drugih 1,6 miliona vrsta.

Sentient beings are co-citizens in this world.

Osećajna bića su sugrađani ovog sveta.

and we need to dare altruism.

I treba da se usudimo na altruizam.

So, long live the altruistic revolution.

Neka dugo živi altruistična revolucija.

Viva la revolución de altruismo.

Živela revolucija altruizma.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)