Dan Dennett: Responding to Pastor Rick Warren

Prevodilac: Tijana Mihajlović Lektor: Mile Živković

It's wonderful to be back.

Sjajno je vratiti se.

I love this wonderful gathering.

Volim ova divna okupljanja.

And you must be wondering, "What on earth?

Mora da se pitate: „Šta je sad ovo?

Have they put up the wrong slide?"

Postavili su pogrešan slajd?”

No, no.

Ne, ne.

Look at this magnificent beast,

Pogledajte u ovu veličanstvenu zver

and ask the question: Who designed it?

i postavite pitanje – ko ju je osmislio?

This is TED; this is Technology, Entertainment, Design,

Ovo je TED - tehnologija, zabava, dizajn -

and there's a dairy cow.

a evo krave muzare.

It's a quite wonderfully designed animal.

To je prilično čudesno dizajnirana životinja

And I was thinking, how do I introduce this?

i razmišljao sam - kako da započnem ovo?

And I thought, well, maybe that old doggerel by Joyce Kilmer,

Pa, pomislio sam, možda sa onim starim stihom Džojsa Kilmera,

you know: "Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make a tree."

znate: „Pesme pišu budale kao ja, ali samo Bog može da stvori drvo.”

And you might say, "Well, God designed the cow."

Mogli biste reći: „Pa, Bog je stvorio kravu”,

But, of course, God got a lot of help.

ali, naravno, Bog je imao dosta pomoći.

This is the ancestor of cattle.

Ovo je predak goveda.

This is the aurochs.

Ovo je tur,

And it was designed by natural selection,

a stvorila ga je prirodna selekcija,

the process of natural selection, over many millions of years.

proces prirodne selekcije, tokom mnogo miliona godina.

And then it became domesticated, thousands of years ago.

Zatim je pripitomljen pre nekoliko hiljada godina,

And human beings became its stewards,

a ljudska bića postala su njegovi upravnici

and, without even knowing what they were doing,

i, čak ne znajući šta rade,

they gradually redesigned it and redesigned it and redesigned it.

postepeno su ga iznova i iznova stvarali.

And then more recently, they really began to do reverse engineering on this beast

Zatim, u skorije vreme, počeli su da rade na obrnutom inženjeringu ove zveri

and figure out just what the parts were, how they worked

i da shvataju od kojih delova se sastoji, kako oni funkcionišu

and how they might be optimized -- how they might be made better.

i kako se mogu optimizirati - kako se mogu učiniti boljima.

Now, why am I talking about cows?

E, sad, zašto pričam o kravama?

Because I want to say that much the same thing is true of religions.

Zato što želim da kažem da slična stvar važi i za religije.

Religions are natural phenomena -- they're just as natural as cows.

Religije su prirodne pojave - prirodne su kao i krave.

They have evolved over millennia.

Razvijale su se tokom milenijuma.

They have a biological base, just like the aurochs.

Imaju biološku osnovu, kao i tur.

They have become domesticated,

Pripitomljene su,

and human beings have been redesigning their religions for thousands of years.

a ljudska bića su iznova stvarala svoje religije hiljadama godina.

This is TED, and I want to talk about design.

Ovo je TED i želim da pričam o dizajnu

Because what I've been doing for the last four years --

jer sam u protekle četiri godine -

really since the first time you saw me --

otkad ste me poslednji put videli,

some of you saw me at TED when I was talking about religion --

a neki od vas su me videli kada sam pričao o religiji -

and in the last four years,

a protekle četiri godine

I've been working just about non-stop on this topic.

neprestano sam radio na ovoj tematici.

And you might say it's about the reverse engineering of religions.

Mogli biste reći da je to o obrnutom inženjeringu religija.

Now that very idea, I think, strikes terror in many people,

Sama ta ideja, mislim, pokreće strah,

or anger, or anxiety of one sort or another.

bes ili nekakav nemir kod mnogih ljudi,

And that is the spell that I want to break.

a to je začaranost koju želim da prekinem.

I want to say, no, religions are an important natural phenomenon.

Želim da kažem - ne, religije su važna prirodna pojava.

We should study them with the same intensity

Treba da ih proučavamo sa istim intenzitetom

that we study all the other important natural phenomena,

kojim proučavamo sve druge važne prirodne pojave,

kao što je globalno zagrevanje,

like global warming, as we heard so eloquently last night from Al Gore.

a što je elokventno sinoć predstavio Al Gor.

Today's religions are brilliantly designed -- brilliantly designed.

Današnje religije su brilijantno osmišljene.

They are immensely powerful social institutions

To su društvene institucije koje imaju izuzetnu moć

and many of their features can be traced back to earlier features

i mnoge njihove osobine mogu da se prate do prethodnih osobina

od kojih se može stvoriti smislena celina uz pomoć obrnutog inženjeringa.

that we can really make sense of by reverse engineering.

And, as with the cow, there's a mixture of evolutionary design --

Kao i sa kravom, postoji mešavina evolutivnog dizajna

designed by natural selection itself --

koji je stvorila sama prirodna selekcija

and intelligent design --

i inteligentnog dizajna,

more or less intelligent design --

manje ili više,

and redesigned by human beings

i ponovnog stvaranja od strane ljudskih bića

who are trying to redesign their religions.

koja pokušavaju da iznova stvore svoje religije.

You don't do book talks at TED,

Na TED-u se ne priča o knjigama,

but I'm going to have just one slide about my book,

ali ću predstaviti jedan slajd o svojoj knjizi

because there is one message in it

zato što postoji poruka u njoj

which I think this group really needs to hear.

za koju mislim da ova grupa treba da je čuje.

And I would be very interested to get your responses to this.

Veoma bih bio zainteresovan da dobijem vaše odgovore na ovo pitanje.

It's the one policy proposal that I make in the book,

Radi se o predlogu vezanom za politiku koji dajem u ovoj knjizi,

at this time, when I claim not to know enough about religion

u ovo vreme, kada tvrdim da ne znam dovoljno o religiji

to know what other policy proposals to make.

da bih znao kakav predlog da dam,

And it's one that echoes remarks that you've heard already today.

a u predlogu odzvanjaju napomene koje ste već čuli danas.

Here's my proposal,

Evo mog predloga.

I'm going to just take a couple of minutes to explain it:

Objasniću ga u par minuta.

Education on world religions for all of our children --

Obrazovanje o svetskim religijama za svu našu decu -

in primary school, in high school,

u osnovnoj školi, u srednjoj školi,

in public schools, in private schools and in home schooling.

državnim, privatnim školama i u školama u privatnim domovima.

So what I'm proposing is,

Dakle, predlažem ovo -

just as we require reading, writing, arithmetic, American history,

kao što stičemo znanje o čitanju, pisanju, aritmetici, američkoj istoriji,

so we should have a curriculum on facts about all the religions of the world --

tako bi trebalo da imamo i nastavni plan o činjenicama svetskih religija -

about their history, about their creeds, about their texts,

o njenim istorijama, verama, zapisima,

their music, their symbolisms, their prohibitions, their requirements.

muzici, simbolizmu, zabranama, zahtevima.

And this should be presented factually, straightforwardly,

Ovo bi trebalo da se predstavi kroz činjenice, otvoreno,

with no particular spin, to all of the children in the country.

bez posebnog spinovanja, svoj deci u zemlji.

And as long as you teach them that,

Dokle god im predajete o tome,

you can teach them anything else you like.

možete im predavati o bilo čemu drugom što vam se sviđa.

That, I think, is maximal tolerance for religious freedom.

To je, mislim, maksimalna tolerancija za slobode veroispovesti.

As long as you inform your children about other religions,

Dokle god informišete svoju decu o drugim religijama,

then you may -- and as early as you like and whatever you like --

možete - i u kojem god dobu i šta god da želite -

teach them whatever creed you want them to learn.

da ih naučite i bilo kojoj veri o kojoj želite da imaju znanja,

But also let them know about other religions.

ali dopustite im i da znaju o drugim religijama.

Now, why do I say that?

Zašto to kažem?

Because democracy depends on an informed citizenship.

Zato što demokratija zavisi od informisanog građanstva.

Informed consent is the very bedrock of our understanding of democracy.

Informisana saglasnost je sama osnova našeg razumevanja demokratije.

Misinformed consent is not worth it.

Saglasnost uz pogrešne informacije nije vredna toga.

It's like a coin flip; it doesn't count, really.

To je kao okretanje novčića; ne računa se zaista.

Democracy depends on informed consent.

Demokratija zavisi od informisane saglasnosti.

This is the way we treat people as responsible adults.

Ovo je način na koji tretiramo ljude kao odgovorne odrasle osobe.

Now, children below the age of consent are a special case.

E, sad, deca koja imaju nedovoljno godina za saglasnost su poseban slučaj.

Parents -- I'm going to use a word that Pastor Rick just used --

Roditelji - a iskoristiću reč koju je sveštenik Rik upravo iskoristio -

parents are stewards of their children.

roditelji su upravitelji svoje dece.

They don't own them.

Ne poseduju ih.

You can't own your children.

Ne možete posedovati svoju decu.

You have a responsibility to the world,

Imate odgovornost prema svetu,

to the state, to them, to take care of them right.

državi, prema njima da se brinete o njima na odgovarajući način.

You may teach them whatever creed you think is most important,

Možete ih naučiti bilo kojoj veri za koju smatrate da je važna,

but I say you have a responsibility to let them be informed

ali kažem da imate odgovornost da im dozvolite da se informišu

about all the other creeds in the world, too.

i o svim drugim verama na svetu.

The reason I've taken this time is I've been fascinated to hear

Razlog zbog kog sam odvojio ovo vreme je zato što sam bio fasciniran da čujem

some of the reactions to this.

neke od reakcija na ovo.

One reviewer for a Roman Catholic newspaper called it "totalitarian."

Jedan recenzent katoličkih novina nazvao ga je „totalitarističkim”.

It strikes me as practically libertarian.

Po meni je praktično libertarijanski.

Da li je totalitaristički zahtevati čitanje, pisanje i aritmetiku?

Is it totalitarian to require reading, writing and arithmetic?

I don't think so.

Ne mislim da je tako.

All I'm saying is --

Sve što kažem je -

and facts, facts only; no values, just facts --

činjenice i samo činjenice, bez vrednosti, samo činjenice

about all the world's religions.

o svim svetskim religijama.

Another reviewer called it "hilarious."

Još jedan recenzent nazvao ga je „urnebesnim".

Well, I'm really bothered by the fact

Zaista mi smeta činjenica

that anybody would think that was hilarious.

da bi bilo ko mogao pomisliti da je to urnebesno.

It seems to me to be such a plausible,

Meni deluje kao da je tako razumno,

natural extension of the democratic principles we already have

prirodno proširenje postojećih demokratskih principa

that I'm shocked to think anybody would find that just ridiculous.

da sam šokiran pomišlju da je ovo ikome jednostavno smešno.

I know many religions

Znam da je mnogim religijama

are so anxious about preserving the purity of their faith among their children

veoma stalo do toga da sačuvaju čistotu vere među svojom decom,

that they are intent on keeping their children ignorant of other faiths.

pa su odlučne u nameri da svoju decu drže u neznanju o drugim religijama.

I don't think that's defensible.

Ne mislim da se to može opravdati.

Međutim, stvarno bi mi bilo drago da dobijem vaše odgovore na to -

But I'd really be pleased to get your answers on that --

any reactions to that -- later.

bilo kakvu reakciju - kasnije,

But now I'm going to move on.

ali sada ću nastaviti dalje.

Back to the cow.

Natrag na kravu.

This picture, which I pulled off the web --

Ova slika, koju sa „skinuo” sa neta -

the fellow on the left is really an important part of this picture.

momak sa leve strane zaista je važan deo slike.

That's the steward.

To je upravitelj.

Cows couldn't live without human stewards -- they're domesticated.

Krave ne bi mogle da žive bez ljudskih upravitelja;

pripitomljene su.

They're a sort of ectosymbiont.

One su vrsta ektosimbiotičkog organizma.

They depend on us for their survival.

Njihov opstanak zavisi od nas,

And Pastor Rick was just talking about sheep.

a sveštenik Rik je upravo pričao o ovcama.

I'm going to talk about sheep, too.

I ja ću govoriti o ovcama.

There's a lot of serendipitous convergence here.

Ovde ima puno slučajnih zajedničkih tačaka.

How clever it was of sheep to acquire shepherds!

Koliko je ovca pametna jer je nabavila pastira!

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Think of what this got them.

Razmislite o tome šta im je to donelo.

They could outsource all their problems:

Mogle su da prebace sve svoje probleme na nekog drugog:

protection from predators, food-finding ...

zaštitu od grabljivaca, pronalaženje hrane...

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

... health maintenance.

...brigu o zdravlju.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

The only cost in most flocks -- not even this -- a loss of free mating.

Jedina cena u većini stada - a čak ni to - gubitak slobodnog parenja.

What a deal!

Kakav dogovor!

"How clever of sheep!" you might say.

„Kako je ovca mudra!”, mogli biste reći,

Except, of course, it wasn't the sheep's cleverness.

iako, naravno, ovo nije ovčija mudrost.

We all know sheep are not exactly rocket scientists -- they're not very smart.

Svi znamo da ovce i nisu baš kvantni fizičari - nisu baš pametne.

It wasn't the cleverness of the sheep at all.

Uopšte se ne radi o ovčijoj mudrosti.

They were clueless.

One nemaju pojma,

But it was a very clever move.

ali je ovo bio mudar potez.

Whose clever move was it?

Čiji je to mudar potez bio?

It was the clever move of natural selection itself.

Bio je to mudar potez same prirodne selekcije.

Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA

Frensis Krik, saradnik pri otkriću strukture DNK

with Jim Watson,

zajedno sa Džimom Votsonom,

once joked about what he called Orgel's Second Rule.

jednom prilikom šalio se sa onim

što je nazivao Orglovo drugo pravilo.

Leslie Orgel is a molecular biologist, brilliant guy,

Lesli Orgl bio je molekularni biolog, sjajan momak,

and Orgel's Second Rule is:

a Orglovo drugo pravilo je:

Evolution is cleverer than you are.

evolucija je pametnija od vas.

Now, that is not Intelligent Design -- not from Francis Crick.

To nije inteligentni dizajn; ne od strane Frensisa Krika.

Evolution is cleverer than you are.

Evolucija je pametnija od vas.

If you understand Orgel's Second Rule, then you understand

Ako razumete Orglovo drugo pravilo, onda razumete

why the Intelligent Design movement is basically a hoax.

zbog čega je pokret inteligentnog dizajna u osnovi obmana.

The designs discovered by the process of natural selection

Dizajni otkriveni kroz proces prirodne selekcije su

are brilliant, unbelievably brilliant.

brilijantni, neverovatno brilijantni.

Again and again biologists are fascinated with the brilliance of what's discovered.

Biolozi su iznova i iznova fascinirani brilijantnošću onoga što je otkriveno,

But the process itself is without purpose,

ali sam proces je bez svrhe,

without foresight, without design.

bez dalekovidosti, bez dizajna.

When I was here four years ago,

Kada sam bio ovde pre četiri godine,

I told the story about an ant climbing a blade of grass.

ispričao sam priču o mravu koji se penje uz vlat trave,

And why the ant was doing it was because its brain had been infected

a razlog zbog kog je mrav to radio je zbog toga što je njegov mozak inficiran

with a lancet fluke that was needed to get into the belly of a sheep or a cow

malim metiljem koji treba da uđe u stomak ovce ili krave

in order to reproduce.

da bi se razmnožavao.

So it was sort of a spooky story.

Dakle, ovo je nekakva mračna priča

And I think some people may have misunderstood.

i mislim da su je neki ljudi možda pogrešno shvatili.

Lancet flukes aren't smart.

Mali metilji nisu pametni.

I submit that the intelligence of a lancet fluke is down there,

Tvdim da je inteligencija malog metilja na dnu lestvice,

somewhere between petunia and carrot.

negde između petunije i šargarepe.

They're not really bright. They don't have to be.

Nisu nešto bistri. Ne moraju da budu.

The lesson we learn from this is:

Lekcija koju smo naučili iz ovoga je:

you don't have to have a mind to be a beneficiary.

ne morate imati mozak da biste bili korisnik.

The design is there in nature, but it's not in anybody's head.

Dizajn postoji u prirodi, ali ne i u svačijoj glavi.

It doesn't have to be.

Ne mora da bude.

That's the way evolution works.

To je način na koji evolucija funkcioniše.

Question: Was domestication good for sheep?

Pitanje - da li je pripitomljavanje bilo dobro za ovce?

It was great for their genetic fitness.

Bilo je odlično za njihovu genetičku spremnost.

And here I want to remind you of a wonderful point

Ovde želim da vas podsetim na sjajnu primedbu

that Paul MacCready made at TED three years ago.

Pola Mekridija na TED-u pre tri godine.

Here's what he said:

Evo šta je rekao:

„Pre deset hiljada godina, na samom početku poljoprivrede,

"Ten thousand years ago, at the dawn of agriculture,

human population, plus livestock and pets,

ljudska populacija, uz stoku i ljubimce,

was approximately a tenth of one percent of the terrestrial vertebrate landmass."

bila je otprilike desetina jednog procenta

kopnenih kičmenjaka na Zemlji.”

That was just 10,000 years ago.

To je bilo samo pre 10 000 godina;

Yesterday, in biological terms.

juče u biološkom smislu.

What is it today? Does anybody remember what he told us?

Kakvo je stanje danas? Da li se iko seća šta nam je rekao?

98 percent.

Devedeset osam procenata.

That is what we have done on this planet.

To smo uradili na ovoj planeti.

Now, I talked to Paul afterwards -- I wanted to check to find out

Pričao sam sa Polom posle toga - želeo sam proverim, otkrijem

how he'd calculated this, and get the sources and so forth --

kako je ovo izračunao, dobijem izvore i tako dalje -

and he also gave me a paper that he had written on this.

a on mi je dao i rad koji je napisao na ovu temu.

And there was a passage in it which he did not present here

U njemu postoji pasus koji nije predstavio ovde,

and I think it is so good, I'm going to read it to you:

a ja mislim da je toliko dobar da ću vam ga pročitati:

"Over billions of years on a unique sphere,

„Preko milijardu godina, na jedinstvenoj sferi,

chance has painted a thin covering of life:

slučajnost je naslikala tanušnu koricu života -

complex, improbable, wonderful and fragile.

složenu, malo verovatnu, čudesnu i krhku.

Suddenly, we humans -- a recently arrived species

Odjednom, mi, ljudi - vrsta koja je nedavno stigla,

no longer subject to the checks and balances inherent in nature --

a koja više ne podleže proverama i ravnotežama svojstvenim prirodi -

have grown in population, technology and intelligence

nadogradili smo populaciju, tehnologiju i inteligenciju

to a position of terrible power.

zauzimajući mesto užasne moći.

We now wield the paintbrush."

Mi sada rukujemo kičicom.”

We heard about the atmosphere as a thin layer of varnish.

Čuli smo da je atmosfera tanak sloj zaštitnog laka.

Life itself is just a thin coat of paint on this planet.

Sam život je samo tanak sloj farbe na ovoj planeti,

And we're the ones that hold the paintbrush.

a mi smo oni koji drže četkicu.

And how can we do that?

Kako to možemo da radimo?

The key to our domination of the planet is culture.

Ključ naše dominacije na planeti je kultura,

And the key to culture is religion.

a ključ za kulturu je religija.

Suppose Martian scientists came to Earth.

Pretpostavimo da naučnici sa Marsa dođu na Zemlju.

They would be puzzled by many things.

Zbunilo bi ih mnogo stvari.

Anybody know what this is? I'll tell you what it is.

Da li iko zna šta je ovo? Reći ću vam šta je.

This is a million people gathering on the banks of the Ganges in 2001,

Ovo je skup od milion ljudi na obali Ganga 2001. godine,

perhaps the largest single gathering of human beings ever,

možda najveće okupljanje ljudi ikada organizovano,

as seen from satellite photograph.

prikazano na satelitskoj fotografiji.

Here's a big crowd.

Evo velike mase ljudi.

Here's another crowd in Mecca.

Evo još jedne u Meki.

Martians would be amazed by this.

Marsovce bi ovo zapanjilo.

They'd want to know how it originated,

Želeli bi da znaju kako je nastalo,

what it was for and how it perpetuates itself.

koja mu je svrha i kako se održava.

Actually, I'm going to pass over this.

Zapravo, nastaviću dalje.

The ant isn't alone.

Mrav nije sam.

There's all sorts of wonderful cases of species which -- in that case --

Postoje različiti čudesni slučajevi vrsta koje - u tom slučaju -

A parasite gets into a mouse and needs to get into the belly of a cat.

parazit uđe u miša i treba da uđe u stomak mačke

And it turns the mouse into Mighty Mouse, makes it fearless,

i pretvara miša u Svemoćnog miša, čini ga neustrašivim,

so it runs out in the open, where it'll be eaten by a cat.

pa on istrčava u otvoren prostor i mačka ga pojede.

True story.

Istinita priča.

In other words, we have these hijackers --

Drugim rečima, postoje otmičari -

you've seen this slide before, from four years ago --

videli ste ovaj slajd pre četiri godine -

a parasite that infects the brain and induces even suicidal behavior,

parazit koji inficira mozak i navodi čak i na suicidalno ponašanje,

on behalf of a cause other than one's own genetic fitness.

u ime razloga koji se razlikuje od genetske spremnosti.

Does that ever happen to us?

Da li se nama to ikada dešava?

Yes, it does -- quite wonderfully.

Da, dešava se - prilično neverovatno.

The Arabic word "Islam" means "submission."

Arapska reč „islam” znači „pokoravanje”.

It means "surrender of self-interest to the will of Allah."

Ona znači „predaju sopstvenih interesa volji Alaha”.

But I'm not just talking about Islam.

Međutim, ne pričam samo o islamu;

I'm talking also about Christianity.

pričam i o hrišćanstvu.

This is a parchment music page that I found in a Paris bookstall

Ovo je pergamentni list partiture

koji sam našao na pariskoj polici za knjige

50 years ago.

pre 50 godina.

And on it, it says, in Latin:

Na njemu piše na latinskom:

"Semen est verbum Dei. Sator autem Christus."

„Semen est verbum Dei. Sator autem Christus."

The word of God is the seed and the sower of the seed is Christ.

„Reč Božija je seme, a sejač semena je Hrist.”

Same idea. Well, not quite.

Ista ideja. Pa, i ne baš.

But in fact, Christians, too ...

U stvari, hrišćani takođe

glory in the fact that they have surrendered to God.

slave činjenicu da su se predali bogu.

I'll give you a few quotes.

Navešću vam par citata.

"The heart of worship is surrender.

„Predaja je u srcu obožavanja.

Ljudi koji su se predali povinuju se Božijim rečima,

Surrendered people obey God's words, even if it doesn't make sense."

čak i ako to nema smisla.”

Those words are by Rick Warren.

Ovo su reči Rika Vorena.

Those are from "The Purpose Driven Life."

One su iz „Svrsishodnog života”.

And I want to turn now, briefly, to talk about that book, which I've read.

Želeo bih da se sada nakratko okrenem

razgovoru o toj knjizi koju sam pročitao.

You've all got a copy,

Svi imate primerak

and you've just heard the man.

i upravo ste čuli čoveka.

And what I want to do now is say a bit about this book

Sada želim da ponešto kažem o ovoj knjizi

from the design standpoint,

sa stanovišta dizajna

because I think it's actually a brilliant book.

jer zapravo mislim da je ovo sjajna knjiga.

First of all, the goal -- and you heard just now what the goal is --

Pre svega, cilj - a upravo ste čuli šta je cilj -

it's to bring purpose to the lives of millions, and he has succeeded.

je donošenje svrhe u živote miliona, a on je uspeo.

Is it a good goal? In itself, I'm sure we all agree, it is a wonderful goal.

Da li je to dobar cilj? Sam po sebi, siguran sam da ćemo se složiti, je divan.

He's absolutely right.

On je potpuno u pravu.

There are lots of people out there who don't have purpose in their life,

Postoji mnogo ljudi koji nemaju svrhu u svom životu,

and bringing purpose to their life is a wonderful goal.

a donošenje svrhe u njihov život je sjajan cilj.

I give him an A+ on this.

Dajem mu 5+ za ovo.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Is the goal achieved?

Da li je cilj postignut?

Yes.

Da.

Thirty million copies of this book.

Trideset miliona primeraka ove knjige.

Al Gore, eat your heart out.

Ale Gore, pojedi se od muke.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Just exactly what Al is trying to do, Rick is doing.

Upravo ono što Al pokušava da uradi, Rik radi.

This is a fantastic achievement.

Ovo je fantastično dostignuće,

And the means -- how does he do it?

a sredstva - kako on to radi?

To je brilijantno ponovno stvaranje

It's a brilliant redesign of traditional religious themes --

tradicionalnih religijskih tema -

updating them, quietly dropping obsolete features,

njihovo ažuriranje, tiho odbacivanje zastarelih osobina,

putting new interpretations on other features.

uspostavljanje novih tumačenja za ove osobine.

This is the evolution of religion that's been going on for thousands of years,

Ovo je evolucija religije koja se dešavala hiljadama godina,

and he's just the latest brilliant practitioner of it.

a on je samo njen skorašnji brilijantni praktičar.

I don't have to tell you this; you just heard the man.

Ne moram ovo da vam kažem; čuli ste čoveka.

Excellent insights into human psychology, wise advice on every page.

Odličan uvid u ljudsku psihologiju, mudar savet na svakoj strani.

Moreover, he invites us to look under the hood.

Šta više, on poziva da dublje ispitamo suštinu.

I really appreciated that.

Zaista sam mu zahvalan zbog toga.

For instance, he has an appendix where he explains

Na primer, ima apendiks u kom objašnjava

his choice of translations of different Bible verses.

svoj izbor prevoda različitih biblijskih stihova.

The book is clear, vivid, accessible, beautifully formatted.

Knjiga je jasna, živopisna, pristupačna, lepo formatirana.

Just enough repetition.

Ponavljanja taman koliko treba.

That's really important.

To je zaista važno.

Every time you read it or say it, you make another copy in your brain.

Svaki put kad je pročitate ili izgovorite,

napravite još jednu kopiju u svom mozgu.

Every time you read it or say it, you make another copy in your brain.

Svaki put kad je pročitate ili izgovorite,

napravite još jednu kopiju u svom mozgu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

With me, everybody --

Svi zajedno sa mnom -

(Audience and Dan Dennett) Every time you read it or say it,

(Publika i Den Denet)

Svaki put kada je pročitate ili izgovorite,

you make another copy in your brain.

napravite još jednu kopiju u svom mozgu.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

And now we come to my problem.

Sada stižemo do mog problema

Because I'm absolutely sincere in my appreciation

jer potpuno iskreno poštujem

of all that I said about this book.

sve što sam naveo u vezi ove knjige,

But I wish it were better.

ali bih voleo da je bolja.

I have some problems with the book.

Imam neke probleme sa ovom knjigom,

And it would just be insincere of me not to address those problems.

a bilo bi neiskreno sa moje strane da se ne bavim ovim problemima.

I wish he could do this with a revision,

Voleo bih da uradi ovo sa revizijom,

a Mark 2 version of his book.

kao drugu verziju knjige.

"The truth will set you free."

„Istina će vas osloboditi.”

That's what it says in the Bible,

To kaže Biblija

and it's something that I want to live by, too.

i to je nešto čime želim da se rukovodim u životu.

My problem is, some of the bits in it I don't think are true.

Moj problem je - ne mislim da su neki od delova toga tačni.

Now some of this is a difference of opinion.

Nešto od ovoga je razilaženje mišljenja,

And that's not my main complaint, that's worth mentioning.

a to nije moj glavni prigovor kog vredi pomenuti.

Here's a passage -- it's very much what he said, anyway:

Evo pasusa - prilično odgovara onome što je rekao, u svakom slučaju:

"If there was no God we would all be accidents,

„Da nema Boga, svi bismo bili slučajni događaji,

the result of astronomical random chance in the Universe.

rezultati astronomske nasumične slučajnosti u svemiru.

You could stop reading this book because life would have no purpose

Mogli biste prestati da čitate ovu knjigu jer život ne bi imao svrhu,

or meaning or significance.

značenje ili važnost.

There would be no right or wrong

Ne bi bilo dobrog ili lošeg,

and no hope beyond your brief years on Earth."

niti nade van vaših kratkih godina na Zemlji.”

Now, I just do not believe that.

Ja jednostavno ne verujem u to.

By the way, I find -- Homer Groening's film presented a beautiful alternative

Usput, nalazim da - film Homera Grejninga predstavio je lepu alternativu

to that very claim.

upravo ovoj tvrdnji.

Yes, there is meaning and a reason for right or wrong.

Da, postoji značenje i razlog za ispravno i neispravno.

We don't need a belief in God to be good or to have meaning in us.

Ne treba nam vera u boga da bismo bili dobri ili sadržali smisao,

But that, as I said, is just a difference of opinion.

ali to je, kao što rekoh, samo razlika u mišljenju.

That's not what I'm really worried about.

Nisam zbog toga zabrinut.

How about this: "God designed this planet's environment

Kako vam se ovo čini: „Bog je stvorio životnu sredinu

just so we could live in it."

na ovoj planeti samo da bismo mogli živeti u njoj.”

I'm afraid that a lot of people take that sentiment to mean

Bojim se da puno ljudi misli da takav stav znači

that we don't have to do the sorts of things

da ne moramo da radimo stvari

that Al Gore is trying so hard to get us to do.

koje Al Gor tako uporno pokušava da nas natera da radimo.

I am not happy with that sentiment at all.

Uopšte mi se ne sviđa takvo razmišljanje.

And then I find this: "All the evidence available in the biological sciences

Zatim nađem ovo: „Svi dokazi dostupni u biološkim naukama

supports the core proposition that the cosmos is a specially designed whole

podržavaju suštinsku svrhu da je kosmos specijalno dizajnirana celina

with life and mankind as its fundamental goal and purpose,

sa životom i čovečanstvom kao osnovnim ciljem i svrhom,

a whole in which all facets of reality have their meaning

celina u kojoj svi aspekti stvarnosti imaju svoje značenje

and explanation in this central fact."

i objašnjenje u ovoj centralnoj činjenici.”

Well, that's Michael Denton. He's a creationist.

Pa, to je Majkl Denton. On je kreacionista.

And here, I think, "Wait a minute." I read this again.

Na ovom mestu mislim: „Stani malo.”

Ponovo isčitavam ovo.

I read it three or four times and I think,

Čitam tri ili četiri puta i mislim:

"Is he really endorsing Intelligent Design?

„Da li on stvarno odobrava inteligentni dizajn?

Is he endorsing creationism here?"

Da li on to ovde odobrava kreacionizam?”

And you can't tell.

Ne možete sa sigurnošću reći,

So I'm sort of thinking, "Well, I don't know,

te razmišljam: „Pa, ne znam,

I don't know if I want to get upset with this yet."

nisam siguran da želim da me ovo sada iznervira.”

But then I read on, and I read this: "First, Noah had never seen rain,

Nastavljam da čitam dalje i pročitam ovo:

„Kao prvo, Noje nikada nije video kišu

because prior to the Flood, God irrigated the earth from the ground up."

jer je pre poplave Bog navodnjavao Zemlju iz zemljišta.”

I wish that sentence weren't in there, because I think it is false.

Voleo bih da ova rečenica nije ovde jer mislim da je neistinita.

And I think that thinking this way about the history of the planet,

Mislim i da ovakvo razmišljanje o istoriji naše planete,

after we've just been hearing about the history of the planet

neposredno po slušanju o istoriji planete

over millions of years,

tokom nekoliko miliona godina

discourages people from scientific understanding.

odvraća ljude od naučnog razumevanja.

Now, Rick Warren uses scientific terms

Rik Voren koristi naučne termine,

and scientific factoids and information in a very interesting way.

polu-činjenice i informacije na veoma interesantan način.

Here's one: "God deliberately shaped and formed you to serve him

Evo jednog načina: „Bog vas je sa namerom

oblikovao i formirao da biste mu služili

in a way that makes your ministry unique.

na način koji vašu službu čini unikatnom.

He carefully mixed the DNA cocktail that created you."

Pažljivo je pomešao DNK koktel koji vas je stvorio.”

I think that's false.

Mislim da to nije tačno.

Now, maybe we want to treat it as metaphorical.

Možda želimo da se prema ovome ophodimo kao prema metafori.

Here's another one: "For instance, your brain can store 100 trillion facts.

Evo još jedne: „Na primer, vaš mozak može da uskladišti 100 triliona činjenica.

Your mind can handle 15,000 decisions a second."

Vaš um se može nositi sa 15 000 odluka u sekundi.”

Well, it would be interesting to find the interpretation

Pa, bilo bi interesantno naći tumačenje

where I would accept that.

kroz koje bih ovo prihvatio.

There might be some way of treating that as true.

Može biti da postoji način kroz koji bismo ovo doživeli kao tačno.

"Anthropologists have noted that worship is a universal urge,

„Antropolozi su primetili da je obožavanje univerzalni poriv,

hardwired by God into the very fiber of our being --

utkan Božijom rukom u same niti našeg bića -

an inbuilt need to connect with God."

ugrađena potreba da se povežemo sa Bogom.”

Well, the sense of which I agree with him,

Pa, shvatanje u kom se slažem s njim,

except I think it has an evolutionary explanation.

osim što mislim da postoji evoluciono objašnjenje.

And what I find deeply troubling in this book

Ono što me duboko zabrinjava u ovoj knjizi je

is that he seems to be arguing that if you want to be moral,

da se čini da tvrdi da, ako želite da budete moralni,

if you want to have meaning in your life,

ako želite da imate smisao života,

you have to be an Intelligent Designer,

morate da budete inteligentni dizajner,

you have to deny the theory of evolution by natural selection.

morate da poreknete teoriju evolucije kroz prirodnu selekciju.

And I think, on the contrary,

Nasuprot tome, mislim da je

that it is very important to solving the world's problems

za rešavanje svetskih problema veoma važno

that we take evolutionary biology seriously.

da evolucionu biologiju shvatimo ozbiljno.

Whose truth are we going to listen to?

Čiju ćemo istinu poslušati?

Well, this is from "The Purpose Driven Life":

Ovo je iz „Svrsishodnog života”:

"The Bible must become the authoritative standard for my life:

„Biblija mora da postane merodavan standard za moj život:

the compass I rely on for direction,

kompas na koji se oslanjam za pravac,

the counsel I listen to for making wise decisions,

savetodavac kojeg slušam da bih donosio mudre odluke

and the benchmark I use for evaluating everything."

i odrednica koju koristim za procenu svega.”

Well maybe, OK, but what's going to follow from this?

Pa, možda, dobro, ali šta će propratiti ovo?

And here's one that does concern me.

Evo još jednog koji me brine.

Setite se da sam ga citirao i pre sa ovom izjavom:

Remember I quoted him before with this line:

"Surrendered people obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense."

„Ljudi koji su se predali povinuju se Božijim rečima,

čak i ako to nema smisla”,

And that's a problem.

a to je problem.

(Sighs)

(Uzdiše)

"Don't ever argue with the Devil.

„Nikada se nemojte svađati sa Đavolom.

He's better at arguing than you are,

On je bolji u tome od vas

having had thousands of years to practice."

jer je imao hiljade godina za praksu.”

Now, Rick Warren didn't invent this clever move.

Rik Voren nije izmislio ovaj pametan potez.

It's an old move.

To je stari potez.

It's a very clever adaptation of religions.

To je veoma mudra adaptacija religija.

It's a wild card for disarming any reasonable criticism.

To je džoker pri razoružavanju bilo kakve razumne kritike.

"You don't like my interpretation?

„Ne sviđa ti se moje tumačenje?

You've got a reasonable objection to it?

Imaš razumnu primedbu na njega?

Don't listen, don't listen!

Ne slušaj! Ne slušaj!

That's the Devil speaking."

To sam Đavo priča.”

This discourages the sort of reasoning citizenship

Ovo obeshrabruje ono razumno građanstvo

it seems to me that we want to have.

koje mi se čini da želimo da imamo.

I've got one more problem, then I'm through.

Imam još jedan problem i onda završavam,

And I'd really like to get a response if Rick is able to do it.

a stvarno bih voleo da dobijem odgovor ako Rik može da ga da.

"In the Great Commission, Jesus said,

„U obraćanju apostolima, Hristos je rekao:

'Go to all people of all nations and make them my disciples.

'Idite i učinite sve narode učenicima mojim.

Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Krstite ih u ime Oca i Sina i Svetoga Duha

i učite ih da vrše sve što sam zapovedio.'”

and teach them to do everything I've told you.'"

The Bible says Jesus is the only one who can save the world.

Biblija kaže da je Isus jedini koji može da spasi svet.

We've seen many wonderful maps of the world in the last day or so.

Videli smo mnoge divne mape sveta

u poslednjih nekoliko dana.

Here's one, not as beautiful as the others;

Evo jedne, ne tako lepe kao druge;

it simply shows the religions of the world.

jednostavno pokazuje religije sveta.

Here's one that shows the sort of current breakdown of the different religions.

Evo jedne koja prikazuje trenutni pregled različitih religija.

Do we really want to commit ourselves

Da li stvarno želimo da se posvetimo

to engulfing all the other religions,

obuhvatanju svih drugih religija

when their holy books are telling them,

kada im njihove svete knjige govore:

"Don't listen to the other side, that's just Satan talking!"?

„Ne slušajte drugu stranu. To samo Satana govori.”

It seems to me that that's a very problematic ship

Čini mi se da je to problematični brod

to get on for the future.

za ukrcavanje u budućnosti.

I found this sign as I was driving to Maine recently,

Naišao sam na ovaj znak dok sam se nedavno vozio

prema Mejnu ispred crkve: „Dobro bez Boga postaje ništavno.”

in front of a church: "Good without God becomes zero."

Sort of cute.

Pomalo simpatično.

A very clever little meme.

Veoma mudar mali mem.

I don't believe it and I think this idea, popular as it is --

Ne verujem mu i mislim da je ova ideja - popularna kao što jeste,

not in this guise, but in general --

ne u ovom ruhu, nego uopšte -

is itself one of the main problems that we face.

sama po sebi glavni problem sa kojim se susrećemo.

If you are like me, you know many wonderful, committed, engaged

Ako ste kao ja, poznajete mnogo divnih, posvećenih, angažovanih

ateista, agnostika,

atheists, agnostics, who are being very good without God.

koji su veoma dobri i bez boga,

And you also know many religious people who hide behind their sanctity

a znate i mnogo religioznih ljudi koji se kriju iza svoje pobožnosti

instead of doing good works.

umesto da čine dobra dela.

So, I wish we could drop this meme.

Tako, voleo bih da odbacimo ovaj mem.

I wish this meme would go extinct.

Voleo bih da se istrebi.

Thanks very much for your attention.

Hvala vam na pažnji.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)