Dan Dennett: Responding to Pastor Rick Warren

翻译人员: si chen 校对人员: James Dang

很高兴能再次站在这里

It's wonderful to be back.

I love this wonderful gathering.

我非常喜欢这样的集会

And you must be wondering, "What on earth?

你一定会想：怎么搞的？

Have they put up the wrong slide?"

投影是不是打错了？

No, no.

当然不是

Look at this magnificent beast,

看看这头漂亮的动物，你不禁会问一个问题--谁设计了它？

and ask the question: Who designed it?

我们这里是TED

是【科技，娱乐，设计】的缩写。但是现在屏幕上是一只奶牛。

This is TED; this is Technology, Entertainment, Design,

and there's a dairy cow.

It's a quite wonderfully designed animal.

奶牛的构造其实是很精彩的

And I was thinking, how do I introduce this?

我在想，我怎样介绍这个东西？

And I thought, well, maybe that old doggerel by Joyce Kilmer,

我想起了乔尔斯.基尔默的一首打油诗，

you know: "Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make a tree."

“诗词歌赋傻子写，

花草树木上帝造。”

你可能会说：“那么，是上帝设计了奶牛。”

And you might say, "Well, God designed the cow."

But, of course, God got a lot of help.

但是，当然了，上帝也得到了很多帮助。

This is the ancestor of cattle.

这是牛的祖先

This is the aurochs.

叫做非洲大羚羊。

And it was designed by natural selection,

它是由“自然选择”设计的，

the process of natural selection, over many millions of years.

历经数百万年进化而来

And then it became domesticated, thousands of years ago.

人类在数千年前驯化了它们

And human beings became its stewards,

变成了它们的监护者

and, without even knowing what they were doing,

但人类对自己的行为并不知情，

they gradually redesigned it and redesigned it and redesigned it.

人们逐渐对这个物种进行不断地重新设计，重新设计，重新设计。

And then more recently, they really began to do reverse engineering on this beast

近期，人类真正开始在奶牛上

开展类似于“逆向工程”的研究

and figure out just what the parts were, how they worked

希望能认识它全身的各个器官以及其运作方式

and how they might be optimized -- how they might be made better.

找出优化的方法--让它们变得更好

Now, why am I talking about cows?

到底为什么我要提到奶牛呢？

Because I want to say that much the same thing is true of religions.

因为我想说，宗教的演变过程与牛的演变很类似

Religions are natural phenomena -- they're just as natural as cows.

宗教也是一种自然现象

它们同奶牛一样自然，

They have evolved over millennia.

历经数千年演化而来

宗教和羚羊一样，都有一个生物学基础

They have a biological base, just like the aurochs.

They have become domesticated,

也逐渐被人类驯化

and human beings have been redesigning their religions for thousands of years.

几千年来，人类也在不断地重新设计自己的宗教

This is TED, and I want to talk about design.

在TED这里，我想重点谈谈“设计”

Because what I've been doing for the last four years --

因为四年以来我一直在做的，

really since the first time you saw me --

--其实是自从你们在TED上第一次看到我--

some of you saw me at TED when I was talking about religion --

当时我谈的是宗教，在过去的四年中

and in the last four years,

I've been working just about non-stop on this topic.

我不间断地研究宗教

And you might say it's about the reverse engineering of religions.

你可以叫它宗教版的”生物逆向工程“

Now that very idea, I think, strikes terror in many people,

这个想法想必会让很多人感到恐惧

or anger, or anxiety of one sort or another.

或者愤怒，或者某种程度上的担心

And that is the spell that I want to break.

这正是我要打破的魔咒。

I want to say, no, religions are an important natural phenomenon.

我要说，不，宗教是一个重要的自然现象

We should study them with the same intensity

我们应该研究宗教

that we study all the other important natural phenomena,

像我们研究其它重要的自然现象一样热情

like global warming, as we heard so eloquently last night from Al Gore.

譬如全球变暖，诚如昨晚戈尔谈到的

今天的宗教经过了出色地设计--出色地设计。

Today's religions are brilliantly designed -- brilliantly designed.

They are immensely powerful social institutions

它们是非常强有力的社会机构

and many of their features can be traced back to earlier features

它们的许多特征能够利用“生物逆向工程”

that we can really make sense of by reverse engineering.

追溯到它的早期特征

And, as with the cow, there's a mixture of evolutionary design --

宗教就像牛一样，是一系列进化设计的混合体

designed by natural selection itself --

有“自然选择”的设计，还有智能设计 --

and intelligent design --

more or less intelligent design --

或多或少

and redesigned by human beings

who are trying to redesign their religions.

是由不断试着重新设计宗教的人类一手打造

You don't do book talks at TED,

在TED你不会想看书评，但是我只打出一张幻灯片

but I'm going to have just one slide about my book,

关于我的书，因为我想提到一点

because there is one message in it

我认为在座诸位有必要了解

which I think this group really needs to hear.

And I would be very interested to get your responses to this.

我也很想听听大家的评论

It's the one policy proposal that I make in the book,

我在书中提到一个政策建议

at this time, when I claim not to know enough about religion

以我当时有限的宗教知识

to know what other policy proposals to make.

算是我唯一拿得出手的建议了

And it's one that echoes remarks that you've heard already today.

这个建议呼应了你们今天在这里听到的内容

Here's my proposal,

先说一下我的建议

I'm going to just take a couple of minutes to explain it:

需要花几分钟解释一下

Education on world religions for all of our children --

在我们国家的小学、中学、公私立学校以及家中，

in primary school, in high school,

都要教学生认识世界各大宗教

in public schools, in private schools and in home schooling.

So what I'm proposing is,

我倡议

just as we require reading, writing, arithmetic, American history,

就像我们要求学生必修英文读写，算术，美国历史

so we should have a curriculum on facts about all the religions of the world --

我们也应该将世界宗教知识

列入必修科目中

介绍各宗教的历史，教义，经典

about their history, about their creeds, about their texts,

their music, their symbolisms, their prohibitions, their requirements.

音乐，符号，禁忌，清规等等

And this should be presented factually, straightforwardly,

内容应该有事实根据，直言不讳

with no particular spin, to all of the children in the country.

不带任何偏见地教给全国的儿童

And as long as you teach them that,

只要你教了这些

you can teach them anything else you like.

你再教什么都行

That, I think, is maximal tolerance for religious freedom.

这是我认为给予宗教自由的最大空间

As long as you inform your children about other religions,

只要让孩子了解了其他宗教信仰

then you may -- and as early as you like and whatever you like --

父母可以在任何时候

teach them whatever creed you want them to learn.

教给孩子任何父母想要他们知道的宗教信仰

But also let them know about other religions.

同时也让孩子了解其他的宗教信仰

Now, why do I say that?

为什么我会提出这个观点？

Because democracy depends on an informed citizenship.

因为民主制度取决于它的公民能否充分获得资讯

Informed consent is the very bedrock of our understanding of democracy.

这也就是“知情同意”原则

是我们建立民主素养的根本

Misinformed consent is not worth it.

在不知情的情况下所作的决定并无意义

It's like a coin flip; it doesn't count, really.

就像掷骰子做决定一样没有意义

Democracy depends on informed consent.

民主制度以“知情同意”为基石

This is the way we treat people as responsible adults.

视人民为能承担责任的成年人

不过，未成年的孩子们是特例

Now, children below the age of consent are a special case.

Parents -- I'm going to use a word that Pastor Rick just used --

我想引用华里克牧师刚刚讲过的--

parents are stewards of their children.

父母虽然是孩子的监护人

但孩子并不属于他们

They don't own them.

You can't own your children.

你不能拥有你的孩子

You have a responsibility to the world,

为人父母者有义务

to the state, to them, to take care of them right.

对这个国家以及孩子，给予他们照顾

You may teach them whatever creed you think is most important,

父母可以教导孩子他们认为最重要的宗教信仰

but I say you have a responsibility to let them be informed

不过我认为父母也有责任

about all the other creeds in the world, too.

让孩子了解到其他宗教

The reason I've taken this time is I've been fascinated to hear

我之所以花时间谈论这个观点

some of the reactions to this.

是因为一些反响很有意思

One reviewer for a Roman Catholic newspaper called it "totalitarian."

一位天主教评论家称此观点为”极权主义“

It strikes me as practically libertarian.

我却认为这观点实际是“自由主义”的

Is it totalitarian to require reading, writing and arithmetic?

“极权主义”要求必修英文读写和算术吗？

I don't think so.

我不这么认为

All I'm saying is --

我只提倡老师教真实的知识

and facts, facts only; no values, just facts --

不是价值观，只是关于世界宗教的知识

about all the world's religions.

Another reviewer called it "hilarious."

另一个评论家说我的观点”很可笑“

Well, I'm really bothered by the fact

我实在想不通

that anybody would think that was hilarious.

为什么会有人觉得这个提议很可笑

It seems to me to be such a plausible,

我觉得这个观点

natural extension of the democratic principles we already have

是我们已有的民主原则的自然延伸

that I'm shocked to think anybody would find that just ridiculous.

我很诧异有人会觉得这个想法荒唐

I know many religions

我知道很多宗教都很担忧孩子们在信仰上的单纯性

are so anxious about preserving the purity of their faith among their children

因此不让他们知道

that they are intent on keeping their children ignorant of other faiths.

其他的宗教信仰

I don't think that's defensible.

我不认为这是一个站得住脚的理论

But I'd really be pleased to get your answers on that --

但是我很乐意听到任何对这件事上的评论--但请等我讲完

any reactions to that -- later.

But now I'm going to move on.

言归正传

Back to the cow.

我们再来讲这只牛

This picture, which I pulled off the web --

这张照片是我从网上下载下来的

the fellow on the left is really an important part of this picture.

左边这个人是照片中的很重要的一部分

That's the steward.

他是这头牛的监护人

Cows couldn't live without human stewards -- they're domesticated.

奶牛不可能在没有监护人的情况下生存--因为它们已经被驯养了

They're a sort of ectosymbiont.

这是一种生态上讲的共生关系

They depend on us for their survival.

牛需要依靠人类才能生活下去

And Pastor Rick was just talking about sheep.

华里克牧师刚刚讲到羊

I'm going to talk about sheep, too.

我也要讲羊

There's a lot of serendipitous convergence here.

人和羊之间有很多偶然发生的交集

How clever it was of sheep to acquire shepherds!

羊竟然聪明到和牧羊人一同生活！

(Laughter)

Think of what this got them.

想想看这对羊有什么好处

They could outsource all their problems:

他们把所有问题都转交给了牧羊人

protection from predators, food-finding ...

比如免受捕食者的威胁，觅食以及保持健康等等

(Laughter)

... health maintenance.

(Laughter)

The only cost in most flocks -- not even this -- a loss of free mating.

唯一的成本是不能自由交配

What a deal!

挺划算的

"How clever of sheep!" you might say.

你可能会说：”羊还挺聪明的！“

Except, of course, it wasn't the sheep's cleverness.

不过，当然不是羊聪明

谁都知道羊又不是火箭科学家，它们不怎么聪明

We all know sheep are not exactly rocket scientists -- they're not very smart.

这根本不是羊的智慧

It wasn't the cleverness of the sheep at all.

They were clueless.

它们对这件事毫不知情

但这的确是个很聪明的举动

But it was a very clever move.

Whose clever move was it?

谁的聪明举动呢？

It was the clever move of natural selection itself.

是“自然选择”本身的聪明举动

Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA

弗朗西斯.克里克，DNA结构的发明者之一

with Jim Watson,

与吉姆.华生，曾顽皮地以分子生物学家雷斯利奥杰尔的名义

once joked about what he called Orgel's Second Rule.

Leslie Orgel is a molecular biologist, brilliant guy,

命名了一个”奥杰尔第二定律“

and Orgel's Second Rule is:

奥杰尔第二定律讲的是：演化比你高明。

Evolution is cleverer than you are.

Now, that is not Intelligent Design -- not from Francis Crick.

克里克指的当然不是“智慧设计”

Evolution is cleverer than you are.

演化是比你要高明

If you understand Orgel's Second Rule, then you understand

如果你理解“奥杰尔第二定律”，你就能理解

why the Intelligent Design movement is basically a hoax.

为什么“智慧设计”运动是一场骗局

The designs discovered by the process of natural selection

“自然选择”过程中的种种设计

are brilliant, unbelievably brilliant.

是非常了不起的

Again and again biologists are fascinated with the brilliance of what's discovered.

一次又一次让生物学家叹为观止

But the process itself is without purpose,

但是“自然选择”过程本身并无目的

without foresight, without design.

也没有预见，没有设计

When I was here four years ago,

当我四年前站在这里的时候

I told the story about an ant climbing a blade of grass.

我讲了一个故事，说一只蚂蚁在爬一株草

And why the ant was doing it was because its brain had been infected

蚂蚁为什么要这么做？

蚂蚁的脑子感染了柳叶吸虫

with a lancet fluke that was needed to get into the belly of a sheep or a cow

这种虫必须在牛羊的体内繁殖，所以蚂蚁爬上草，让牛羊吃掉

in order to reproduce.

So it was sort of a spooky story.

听起来有点吓人

And I think some people may have misunderstood.

但是我觉得有些人可能误解了

Lancet flukes aren't smart.

柳叶吸虫并不聪明

I submit that the intelligence of a lancet fluke is down there,

我觉得一只柳叶吸虫的智商大概会在

somewhere between petunia and carrot.

牵牛花和胡萝卜之间

They're not really bright. They don't have to be.

它们并不聪明，也用不着变聪明

The lesson we learn from this is:

这个故事告诉我们

you don't have to have a mind to be a beneficiary.

要获得好处你不必有头脑

The design is there in nature, but it's not in anybody's head.

设计就在大自然中，而不在任何人的头脑中

It doesn't have to be.

因为根本不必要。

That's the way evolution works.

这就是演化的工作方式

Question: Was domestication good for sheep?

问题是：驯养是否对羊群有利呢？

驯养对他们的基因适应极有好处

It was great for their genetic fitness.

在这里我想让大家重温一个很精彩的论点

And here I want to remind you of a wonderful point

that Paul MacCready made at TED three years ago.

是保罗.格雷迪三年前在TED提出来的

Here's what he said:

他说

在一万年前农业刚刚萌芽的时候

"Ten thousand years ago, at the dawn of agriculture,

human population, plus livestock and pets,

人类的数量，加上家畜和宠物

was approximately a tenth of one percent of the terrestrial vertebrate landmass."

大约只占陆生的脊椎动物总数的十分之一

That was just 10,000 years ago.

这不过是一万年前的情况

在生物史上就像昨天一样近

Yesterday, in biological terms.

What is it today? Does anybody remember what he told us?

今天呢？有没有人记得格雷迪告诉我们什么？

98 percent.

百分之九十八

That is what we have done on this planet.

这就是我们在这个星球上做的

Now, I talked to Paul afterwards -- I wanted to check to find out

后来我找到了保罗

想向他求证他是怎么计算出这个数据的

how he'd calculated this, and get the sources and so forth --

以及他的资料来源，等等

and he also gave me a paper that he had written on this.

他给了我一篇他写的这个题目的论文

And there was a passage in it which he did not present here

里面有一段他演讲里没有提到

很有价值，我念给大家听

and I think it is so good, I'm going to read it to you:

"Over billions of years on a unique sphere,

几十亿年前，在一颗独特的星球表面

chance has painted a thin covering of life:

“偶然性”涂抹了一层薄薄的生物

complex, improbable, wonderful and fragile.

这些生物结构复杂，外形奇特，既美丽又脆弱

Suddenly, we humans -- a recently arrived species

突然，人类，一个不久前才出现的物种

no longer subject to the checks and balances inherent in nature --

全然不受自然界的制衡

have grown in population, technology and intelligence

除了数量激增，还发明出具有可怕力量的科技和文明

to a position of terrible power.

We now wield the paintbrush."

此刻我们掌握了那支创造的画笔

We heard about the atmosphere as a thin layer of varnish.

我们听说过大气层像一层薄薄的亮油漆

Life itself is just a thin coat of paint on this planet.

生物也只是这个星球上的一层薄薄的油漆

And we're the ones that hold the paintbrush.

而今是我们拿着油漆刷子

我们将如何使用它呢？

And how can we do that?

The key to our domination of the planet is culture.

人类统治地球的关键在于我们的文化

And the key to culture is religion.

而文化的核心是宗教

Suppose Martian scientists came to Earth.

设想若有一天火星科学家来到了地球

They would be puzzled by many things.

一定会对很多事情产生疑惑

Anybody know what this is? I'll tell you what it is.

有人知道这是什么吗？

让我告诉你

This is a million people gathering on the banks of the Ganges in 2001,

这是2001年，在恒河边上百万人聚会的盛况

perhaps the largest single gathering of human beings ever,

可能这是有史以来人数最多的一次集会

as seen from satellite photograph.

在卫星照片上

Here's a big crowd.

人山人海

Here's another crowd in Mecca.

这是另一个在麦加的集会

火星人将会叹为观止

Martians would be amazed by this.

They'd want to know how it originated,

他们会想知道这些现象是怎么产生的，目的是什么，怎样持续下去

what it was for and how it perpetuates itself.

事实上我要先跳过这张

Actually, I'm going to pass over this.

蚂蚁并不孤单

The ant isn't alone.

There's all sorts of wonderful cases of species which -- in that case --

物种有各种各样精彩的例子

比如，一只寄生虫进入了老鼠身体里

A parasite gets into a mouse and needs to get into the belly of a cat.

因为它需要进到猫肚子里

And it turns the mouse into Mighty Mouse, makes it fearless,

于是它让这只老鼠变成了“巨鼠”-- 老鼠变得毫不畏惧

自己送上门给猫吃

so it runs out in the open, where it'll be eaten by a cat.

真实的故事

True story.

In other words, we have these hijackers --

换句话说，生物界也有“劫机者”

you've seen this slide before, from four years ago --

这张照片我四年前也展示过

a parasite that infects the brain and induces even suicidal behavior,

寄生虫感染了宿主的脑子

诱导宿主做出甚至自杀的行为

on behalf of a cause other than one's own genetic fitness.

而不是宿主的“基因适应”。

这些事在人类身上发生过吗？

Does that ever happen to us?

Yes, it does -- quite wonderfully.

是的，发生过，而且相当神奇

The Arabic word "Islam" means "submission."

在阿拉伯语中”伊斯兰”是顺服的意思

It means "surrender of self-interest to the will of Allah."

是说个人利益要顺从真主安拉的意愿

But I'm not just talking about Islam.

我指的不只是伊斯兰教

I'm talking also about Christianity.

基督教也是如此

This is a parchment music page that I found in a Paris bookstall

这张乐谱是我五十年前在巴黎某书摊上找到的

50 years ago.

And on it, it says, in Latin:

用拉丁文写道：

"Semen est verbum Dei. Sator autem Christus."

（拉丁文）

The word of God is the seed and the sower of the seed is Christ.

“上帝的话是种子，播种的是基督”

Same idea. Well, not quite.

相似的道理，不过不完全是

But in fact, Christians, too ...

事实上，基督徒以顺从上帝为光荣

glory in the fact that they have surrendered to God.

I'll give you a few quotes.

我引用了几段话：

"The heart of worship is surrender.

“敬拜的心降伏了

Surrendered people obey God's words, even if it doesn't make sense."

神的旨意纵使不合情理，降伏的人也会服从。”

Those words are by Rick Warren.

这是华里克牧师说的

Those are from "The Purpose Driven Life."

出自他的《标杆人生》这本书

And I want to turn now, briefly, to talk about that book, which I've read.

我读了这本书，现在我想简单谈谈这本书

You've all got a copy,

大家都有这本书

and you've just heard the man.

刚刚也听过他的演讲

And what I want to do now is say a bit about this book

我想从设计的角度去谈谈这本书

from the design standpoint,

because I think it's actually a brilliant book.

因为我觉得这本书写的真的很棒

首先，是这本书的宗旨

First of all, the goal -- and you heard just now what the goal is --

大家刚才都已经听过了

it's to bring purpose to the lives of millions, and he has succeeded.

宗旨是为人们阐明生命的意义，他也成功地做到了这一点

Is it a good goal? In itself, I'm sure we all agree, it is a wonderful goal.

这是一个好的宗旨吗？

就它本身而言，我相信我们都认同这是一个很好的宗旨

He's absolutely right.

华里克牧师讲的没错

There are lots of people out there who don't have purpose in their life,

很多人的生命没有“标杆”

and bringing purpose to their life is a wonderful goal.

为他们的生命树立“标杆”是一个非常好的宗旨

I give him an A+ on this.

这一点我给他打A+

(Laughter)

Is the goal achieved?

这个宗旨是否达到了呢？

Yes.

达到了

这本书卖了三千万本

Thirty million copies of this book.

Al Gore, eat your heart out.

戈尔肯定羡慕死了

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Just exactly what Al is trying to do, Rick is doing.

戈尔想做的事情，华里克已经做了

This is a fantastic achievement.

这是一个了不起的成就

方法--他是怎么做到的呢？

And the means -- how does he do it?

It's a brilliant redesign of traditional religious themes --

他高明地重新设计了传统的宗教主题

updating them, quietly dropping obsolete features,

更新他们，悄悄地去掉了过时的部分

putting new interpretations on other features.

给予新的解释

This is the evolution of religion that's been going on for thousands of years,

这就是几千年来宗教进化的一个例子

他只是最近的一个高明的参与者

and he's just the latest brilliant practitioner of it.

I don't have to tell you this; you just heard the man.

这点各位已经知道了

你们听过他的演讲

Excellent insights into human psychology, wise advice on every page.

他洞察人心，字字珠玑

更多的是，他邀请读者深入了解他的观点

Moreover, he invites us to look under the hood.

I really appreciated that.

我很赞赏他的做法

For instance, he has an appendix where he explains

举例来说，书中附录解释了

his choice of translations of different Bible verses.

他选择翻译不同的圣经章节的原因

The book is clear, vivid, accessible, beautifully formatted.

书写得清晰易懂，生动，排版也很美观

Just enough repetition.

重复的地方恰到好处

That's really important.

这是非常重要的一点

Every time you read it or say it, you make another copy in your brain.

每读一次，脑中就更熟悉

Every time you read it or say it, you make another copy in your brain.

每读一次，脑中就更熟悉

(Laughter)

（笑声）

With me, everybody --

跟我一起说，每读一次

(Audience and Dan Dennett) Every time you read it or say it,

you make another copy in your brain.

脑中就更熟悉

谢谢

Thank you.

And now we come to my problem.

下面我想提一些问题

Because I'm absolutely sincere in my appreciation

因为我发自肺腑地

of all that I said about this book.

欣赏这本书

But I wish it were better.

因此希望这本书能变得更好

I have some problems with the book.

我对书中的内容有几个问题

And it would just be insincere of me not to address those problems.

如果我不提出来的话，就是不负责任了

I wish he could do this with a revision,

我希望华里克牧师能在修订本中

a Mark 2 version of his book.

解决这些问题

"The truth will set you free."

“真理会让你得到自由”

That's what it says in the Bible,

这是圣经里说的，也是我的座右铭

and it's something that I want to live by, too.

My problem is, some of the bits in it I don't think are true.

但我对几点并不认同

Now some of this is a difference of opinion.

有些只是意见上的分歧

And that's not my main complaint, that's worth mentioning.

这些不是我主要想提出来的

我得强调这一点

Here's a passage -- it's very much what he said, anyway:

这里我以书里的一段话为例

"If there was no God we would all be accidents,

“如果没有神，我们的出现就是一种偶然，

the result of astronomical random chance in the Universe.

是宇宙中的随机出现的产物

You could stop reading this book because life would have no purpose

如果如此，你大可停止读这本书

因为生命将是没有目标，没有意义的，微不足道的

or meaning or significance.

There would be no right or wrong

地球上将会没有是非之分，短暂的一生结束后将会没有任何盼望

and no hope beyond your brief years on Earth."

Now, I just do not believe that.

我认为不是这样

By the way, I find -- Homer Groening's film presented a beautiful alternative

顺便提一句，我发现霍磨.格勒宁的电影

展现了另一种美好的选择

to that very claim.

Yes, there is meaning and a reason for right or wrong.

是的，对与错有它的意义和道理

We don't need a belief in God to be good or to have meaning in us.

我们不需要信仰上帝才能行善，或者过上有意义的人生

But that, as I said, is just a difference of opinion.

但是这只是一个意见上的分歧

That's not what I'm really worried about.

这不是我真正想强调的

How about this: "God designed this planet's environment

再听听这个--”上帝将地球设计成适合人类居住的环境“

just so we could live in it."

I'm afraid that a lot of people take that sentiment to mean

我担心很多人会把这句话理解成

that we don't have to do the sorts of things

我们不需要去做

that Al Gore is trying so hard to get us to do.

戈尔先生费了那么大劲说服我们去做的

I am not happy with that sentiment at all.

我一点也不赞同这个观点

And then I find this: "All the evidence available in the biological sciences

然后我找到了这个--”所有生物学提供的证据

supports the core proposition that the cosmos is a specially designed whole

都证明宇宙是特殊设计给

with life and mankind as its fundamental goal and purpose,

生物和人类，用于实现他们的目标和意义

a whole in which all facets of reality have their meaning

宇宙中的一切真相及其诠释，都是为了

这个事实。“

and explanation in this central fact."

这是创造论者迈克尔登顿说的

Well, that's Michael Denton. He's a creationist.

读到这，我想，“等等。”

And here, I think, "Wait a minute." I read this again.

我又读了一遍

I read it three or four times and I think,

我读了三四次，然后我想

"Is he really endorsing Intelligent Design?

“他是在主张【智慧设计论】吗？

Is he endorsing creationism here?"

还是在主张【创造论】？”

And you can't tell.

难以分辨

So I'm sort of thinking, "Well, I don't know,

我就想：我分辨不出

I don't know if I want to get upset with this yet."

还是先别为了这个问题自寻烦恼了。“

But then I read on, and I read this: "First, Noah had never seen rain,

然后我接着读：“首先，诺亚从没见过雨，

because prior to the Flood, God irrigated the earth from the ground up."

因为在大洪水之前神从地底下浇灌地球。”

I wish that sentence weren't in there, because I think it is false.

我希望书里没写这句话，因为我认为它是错的

And I think that thinking this way about the history of the planet,

我认为，关于这个行星的历史的这种想法

after we've just been hearing about the history of the planet

就是我们刚刚听到的

关于地球数百万年历史的想法

over millions of years,

discourages people from scientific understanding.

阻碍了人们的科学思维。

Now, Rick Warren uses scientific terms

那么，华里克用一种很有趣的方式

and scientific factoids and information in a very interesting way.

运用科学名词以及科学事实阐述他的观点

Here's one: "God deliberately shaped and formed you to serve him

比如：“神刻意将你塑造成一个独一无二的人

in a way that makes your ministry unique.

使你发挥独一无二的才能来侍奉他。

He carefully mixed the DNA cocktail that created you."

他费心调配出基因组合创造了你。”

I think that's false.

我认为这也是错误的。

Now, maybe we want to treat it as metaphorical.

也许我们可以把这句话看做一种比喻的说法

Here's another one: "For instance, your brain can store 100 trillion facts.

另外一个例子是：“例如，你的大脑可以存储一百万亿个信息。

Your mind can handle 15,000 decisions a second."

你的思维在一秒钟可以做一万五千个决定。”

Well, it would be interesting to find the interpretation

我很难接受这样的解释

where I would accept that.

说不定在某些情况下可以成立吧

There might be some way of treating that as true.

“人类学家发现崇拜神是人类共同的内在需求，

"Anthropologists have noted that worship is a universal urge,

hardwired by God into the very fiber of our being --

神将这种需求深植与我们的构造中，

an inbuilt need to connect with God."

使我们必须与神相通。”

Well, the sense of which I agree with him,

这一点我同意

except I think it has an evolutionary explanation.

但是我认为用进化论也可以解释

And what I find deeply troubling in this book

这本书让我最想不通的地方

is that he seems to be arguing that if you want to be moral,

是华里克说，如果人要有道德

if you want to have meaning in your life,

如果你希望你的生命是有意义的

you have to be an Intelligent Designer,

你必须是一个【智慧设计论】者--你必须摒弃

you have to deny the theory of evolution by natural selection.

自然选择的进化论说法

And I think, on the contrary,

相反，我认为要想解决世上的问题

that it is very important to solving the world's problems

我们必须认真考虑进化论

that we take evolutionary biology seriously.

Whose truth are we going to listen to?

问题是我们要相信谁的真理？

Well, this is from "The Purpose Driven Life":

同样在《标杆人生》中：

"The Bible must become the authoritative standard for my life:

“圣经必须是我人生中的最高授权

the compass I rely on for direction,

是引导我人生的方向盘和导师

the counsel I listen to for making wise decisions,

更是使我能做出明知的决定和衡量万事的准绳。”

and the benchmark I use for evaluating everything."

就算是这样，那么听从这个观点会导致什么后果呢？

Well maybe, OK, but what's going to follow from this?

And here's one that does concern me.

有一个后果令我担心

Remember I quoted him before with this line:

我之前引用过这句话：

"Surrendered people obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense."

“降服的人顺从上帝的话，即使不合情理。”

And that's a problem.

这是问题所在

(Sighs)

"Don't ever argue with the Devil.

“不要和恶魔争吵。

He's better at arguing than you are,

他争论的水平比你高很多，因为他有几千年的造诣。”

having had thousands of years to practice."

Now, Rick Warren didn't invent this clever move.

华里克并没有发明这个理论

It's an old move.

很早就有了

It's a very clever adaptation of religions.

这是宗教非常聪明的应变之道

It's a wild card for disarming any reasonable criticism.

是消除各种合理质疑的万能王牌

"You don't like my interpretation?

“你不认同我的解释？

You've got a reasonable objection to it?

你有合理的反对理由是吗？

Don't listen, don't listen!

不要听，不要听

That's the Devil speaking."

这是恶魔的话。”

This discourages the sort of reasoning citizenship

这样的策略阻碍了，我认为我们应该具有的

it seems to me that we want to have.

理性的辨析能力

I've got one more problem, then I'm through.

我还要说最后一个问题

And I'd really like to get a response if Rick is able to do it.

我希望华里克牧师能够回答

"In the Great Commission, Jesus said,

“在基督教的【大使命】中，耶稣说‘你们要去，使万民做我的门徒

'Go to all people of all nations and make them my disciples.

奉圣父、圣子、圣灵之名给他们受洗

Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,

凡我所吩咐你们的，都教他们遵守。”

and teach them to do everything I've told you.'"

圣经上记载耶稣是唯一能拯救这个世界的

The Bible says Jesus is the only one who can save the world.

We've seen many wonderful maps of the world in the last day or so.

这几天我们看过好多张世界地图

都很精美

Here's one, not as beautiful as the others;

但是这一张并没有其它的漂亮

it simply shows the religions of the world.

它只标出世界上所有宗教

也标示了目前各种宗教的分类

Here's one that shows the sort of current breakdown of the different religions.

我们真的要投身于消灭其它的宗教

Do we really want to commit ourselves

to engulfing all the other religions,

当那些宗教的文献说

when their holy books are telling them,

"Don't listen to the other side, that's just Satan talking!"?

“别听他们的，因为那是撒旦的话！”

It seems to me that that's a very problematic ship

如果我们这样做

to get on for the future.

真是前景堪忧

I found this sign as I was driving to Maine recently,

最近我开车到缅因州时，发现了教堂门口的告示

in front of a church: "Good without God becomes zero."

“Good这个词少了God只会剩下0”

Sort of cute.

挺可爱

A very clever little meme.

很聪明的小模因(meme)

I don't believe it and I think this idea, popular as it is --

我不接受这种模因所传递的思想，无论它多流行

not in this guise, but in general --

整体上，这类思想传递是我们面对的大问题之一

is itself one of the main problems that we face.

If you are like me, you know many wonderful, committed, engaged

如果你像我一样，你知道很多卓越、积极、认真的

atheists, agnostics, who are being very good without God.

无神论者、不可知论者，心中没有神却也是很好的人

And you also know many religious people who hide behind their sanctity

应该也知道很多圣徒，在虔诚圣洁的表面下

instead of doing good works.

不做好事

So, I wish we could drop this meme.

所以，我希望我们能废除这种模因

I wish this meme would go extinct.

我希望这种模因最好消失

Thanks very much for your attention.

谢谢各位

(Applause)

（掌声）