Strange answers to the psychopath test | Jon Ronson | TED

Translator: Timothy Covell Reviewer: Morton Bast

Translator: Roman Studenic Reviewer: Richard Hrdlovič

Tento príbeh začína tak, že som bol u priateľky doma

The story starts: I was at a friend's house,

and she had on her shelf a copy of the DSM manual,

a ta mala na polici výtlačok manuálu DSM,

which is the manual of mental disorders.

čo je manuál psychických porúch.

It lists every known mental disorder.

Je v ňom uvedená každá známa mentálna porucha.

A kedysi, v 50-tych rokoch, to bola tenká brožúrka.

And it used to be, back in the '50s, a very slim pamphlet.

And then it got bigger and bigger and bigger,

Potom sa zväčšovala, zväčšovala, zväčšovala

and now it's 886 pages long.

a teraz má 886 strán.

Momentálne uvádza 374 psychických porúch.

And it lists currently 374 mental disorders.

So I was leafing through it,

Tak som si v tom listoval,

wondering if I had any mental disorders,

zvedavý, či aj ja mám nejaké psychické poruchy

a ukázalo sa, že ich mám 12.

and it turns out I've got 12.

(Laughter)

(smiech)

I've got generalized anxiety disorder,

Mám všeobecnú úzkostnú poruchu,

which is a given.

čo je jasné.

I've got nightmare disorder,

Ďalej trpím nočnými morami,

which is categorized

jednou z poruch

if you have recurrent dreams of being pursued or declared a failure,

ak máte opakované sny v ktorých ste prenasledovaní, alebo označení za neschopného --

and all my dreams involve people chasing me down the street

a všetky moje sny obsahujú ľudí, ktorí ma naháňajú po ulici

going, "You're a failure!"

kričiac: "Nestojíš za nič."

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

I've got parent-child relational problems,

Mám problémový vzťah dieťa-rodič,

which I blame my parents for.

za ktorý viním svojich rodičov.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Vtipkujem. Nevtipkujem.

I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.

I'm kidding.

Vtipkujem.

And I've got malingering.

Mám simulantstvo.

And I think it's actually quite rare

Myslím, že je dosť vzácne

to have both malingering and generalized anxiety disorder,

simulovať a zároveň mať všeobecnú úzkostnú poruchu,

because malingering tends to make me feel very anxious.

pretože simulovanie vo mne zvykne vyvolať úzkostlivosť.

Anyway, I was looking through this book,

Ale prezeral som si túto knihu,

wondering if I was much crazier than I thought I was,

čudujúc sa, či som oveľa bláznivejší ako som si myslel,

or maybe it's not a good idea to diagnose yourself with a mental disorder

alebo či to nie je dobrý nápad diagnostikovať samého seba s mentálnymi poruchami

if you're not a trained professional,

ak nie ste trénovaný profesionál,

alebo či má psychiatrická profesia čudnú túžbu

or maybe the psychiatry profession has a kind of strange desire

to label what's essentially normal human behavior as a mental disorder.

označiť to, čo je v podstate normálne ľudské chovanie ako psychickú poruchu.

I didn't know which of these was true, but I thought it was kind of interesting,

Nevedel som čo z toho je pravda,

ale myslel som, že to je zaujímave.

Pomyslel som si, že by som sa mal stretnúť s kritikom psychiatrie

and I thought maybe I should meet a critic of psychiatry

to get their view,

kvôli jeho pohľadu.

which is how I ended up having lunch with the Scientologists.

A tak som skončil na obede so scientológmi.

(Laughter)

It was a man called Brian, who runs a crack team of Scientologists

Bol to muž menom Brian,

ktorý vedie zvláštny tím scientológov,

who are determined to destroy psychiatry wherever it lies.

ktorý sa zameriava na zničenie psychiatrie v každej podobe.

They're called the CCHR.

Volajú sa CCHR.

And I said to him, "Can you prove to me

Povedal som mu: "Viete mi dokázať,

that psychiatry is a pseudo-science that can't be trusted?"

že psychiatria je pseudoveda, ktorej sa nedá veriť?"

A on povedal: "Áno, môžeme ti to dokázať."

And he said, "Yes, we can prove it to you."

A ja." Ako?"

And I said, "How?"

On: "Predstavíme ťa Tonymu."

And he said, "We're going to introduce you to Tony."

Ja: "Kto je Tony?"

And I said, "Who's Tony?"

On: "Tony je v Broadmoore."

And he said, "Tony's in Broadmoor."

Now, Broadmoor is Broadmoor Hospital.

Broadmoorom sa myslí Broadmoorská nemocnica.

It used to be known as the Broadmoor Asylum for the Criminally Insane.

Pred tým sa volala Broadmoorský útulok pre kriminálne šialených.

It's where they send the serial killers,

Tam posielajú sériových vrahov

a ľudí, ktorí si nevedia pomôcť.

and the people who can't help themselves.

Pýtam sa Briana: "A čo spravil Tony?"

And I said to Brian, "Well, what did Tony do?"

On: "V podstate nič.

And he said, "Hardly anything.

Niekoho zbil, alebo také niečo,

He beat someone up or something,

a rozhodol sa predstierať šialenstvo, aby sa dostal z väzenia.

and he decided to fake madness to get out of a prison sentence.

Ale predstieral to príliš dobre a teraz uviazol v Broadmoore

But he faked it too well, and now he's stuck in Broadmoor

a nikto neuverí, že je v poriadku.

and nobody will believe he's sane.

Do you want us to try and get you into Broadmoor to meet Tony?"

Chceš aby sme +ta skúsili dostať do Broadmooru na stretnutie s Tonym?"

Tak som povedal "Áno prosím."

So I said, "Yes, please."

Nasadol som na vlak do Broadmooor.

So I got the train to Broadmoor.

I began to yawn uncontrollably around Kempton Park,

Začal som nekontrolovane zívať niekde pri Kempton Park,

čo je zjavne to čo robia aj psy keď sú úzkostné --

which apparently is what dogs also do when anxious,

they yawn uncontrollably.

nekontrolovane zívajú.

And we got to Broadmoor.

Až sme sa dostali do Broadmooru.

And I got taken through gate after gate after gate after gate

Previedli ma cez bránu a ďalšiu bránu a ďalšiu a ďalšiu

into the wellness center, which is where you get to meet the patients.

do wellness centra,

kde sa môžete stretnúť s pacientmi.

It looks like a giant Hampton Inn.

Vyzerá to ako veľký hotel Hampton Inn.

It's all peach and pine and calming colors.

Je to celé do oranžova, do zelena a v ukľudňujúcich farbách.

And the only bold colors are the reds of the panic buttons.

Jediné výrazné farby sú červené poplašné tlačidlá.

Začali sa dnu trúsiť pacienti.

And the patients started drifting in.

Mali dosť nadváhu, na sebe tepláky

And they were quite overweight and wearing sweatpants,

a vyzerali pomerne poslušne.

and quite docile-looking.

And Brian the Scientologist whispered to me,

Scientológ Brian mi pošepkal

"Sú pod liekmi"

"They're medicated,"

čo je pre scientológov asi najväčšie zlo na svete,

which, to the Scientologists, is like the worst evil in the world,

but I'm thinking it's probably a good idea.

ale myslím, že je to asi dobrý nápad.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

And then Brian said, "Here's Tony."

A potom Brian povedal "To je Tony."

A vošiel muž.

And a man was walking in.

Nemal nadváhu, bol vo veľmi dobrej fyzickej kondícii.

And he wasn't overweight, he was in very good physical shape.

And he wasn't wearing sweatpants,

A nenosil tepláky,

he was wearing a pinstripe suit.

mal prúžkovaný oblek.

And he had his arm outstretched

Vystrel ruku

like someone out of The Apprentice.

ako kandidát zo šou "Šefka" (The Apprentice).

He looked like a man who wanted to wear an outfit

Vyzeral ako muž, ktorý sa chcel obliecť

that would convince me that he was very sane.

aby ma presvedčil, že je úplne príčetný.

Posadil sa.

And he sat down.

And I said, "So is it true that you faked your way in here?"

A vravím: "Takže je to pravda, že si sa sem dostal podvodom?"

A on: "Hej, hej. Absolútne. Niekoho som zbil keď som mal 17.

And he said, "Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I beat someone up when I was 17.

A bol som vo väzení, kde som čakal na proces

And I was in prison awaiting trial,

and my cellmate said to me,

a spoluväzeň mi povedal,

'You know what you have to do?

'Vieš čo musíš urobiť?

Fake madness.

Predstierať šialenstvo.

Povedz im že si blázon. Pošlú ťa do nejakej príjemnej nemocnice.

Tell them you're mad, you'll get sent to some cushy hospital.

Sestričky ti budú nosiť pizzu.

Nurses will bring you pizzas, you'll have your own PlayStation.'"

Budeš mať svoj Playstation.' "

I said, "Well, how did you do it?"

A ja: "A ako si to urobil?"

He said, "Well, I asked to see the prison psychiatrist.

On: "Požiadal som o väzenského psychiatra.

A práve som videl film "Crash"

And I'd just seen a film called 'Crash,'

in which people get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.

v ktorom sa ľudia sexuálne uspokojujú búraním áut do stien.

Tak som povedal psychiatrovi,

So I said to the psychiatrist,

Mám sexuálny pôžitok z búrania autom do stien."

'I get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.'"

A ja: "A čo ďalej?"

And I said, "What else?"

He said, "Oh, yeah. I told the psychiatrist

Pokračoval: "No hej. Povedal som psychiatrovi,

že chcem sledovať ženy ako umierajú,

that I wanted to watch women as they died,

because it would make me feel more normal."

pretože by som sa cítil normálnejší."

I said, "Where'd you get that from?"

Ja: "A to si mal skade?"

He said, "Oh, from a biography of Ted Bundy that they had

On: "Hm, z biografie Teda Bundyho

at the prison library."

ktorú mali vo väzenskej knižnici."

Nuž, predstieral bláznovstvo príliš dobre, povedal.

Anyway, he faked madness too well, he said.

And they didn't send him to some cushy hospital.

A neposlali ho do príjemnej nemocnice.

Poslali ho do Broadmooru.

They sent him to Broadmoor.

And the minute he got there,

A v okamihu ako sa tam dostal,

said he took one look at the place, asked to see the psychiatrist,

povedal, že po prvom pohľade požiadal o stretnutie so psychiatrom:

"Došlo k tragickému nedorozumeniu.

said, "There's been a terrible misunderstanding.

Nie som mentálne chorý."

I'm not mentally ill."

Opýtal som sa: "A ako dlho si už tu?"

I said, "How long have you been here for?"

On: "Nuž, keby som si odpykal môj trest za pôvodný zločin,

He said, "Well, if I'd just done my time in prison

for the original crime, I'd have got five years.

dostal by som päť rokov.

I've been in Broadmoor for 12 years."

Som v Broadmoore už 12 rokov."

Tony povedal, že je oveľa ťažšie presvedčiť ľudí, že ste normálny,

Tony said that it's a lot harder to convince people you're sane

ako ich presvedčiť, že ste šialený.

than it is to convince them you're crazy.

He said, "I thought the best way to seem normal

Povedal: "Myslel som, že najlepšie ako vyzerať normálny

would be to talk to people normally about normal things

bude sa rozprávať s ľudmi normálne a o normálnych veciach

ako futbal, alebo čo je v telke.

like football or what's on TV.

Objednal som si časopis New Scientist,

I subscribe to New Scientist,

and recently they had an article

a nedávno tam bol článok

about how the U.S. Army was training bumblebees to sniff out explosives.

ako americká armáda trénuje čmeliaky na vyhľadávanie výbušnín.

So I said to a nurse,

Tak som povedal sestričke,

'Did you know that the U.S. Army is training bumblebees

'Viete, že americká armáda trénuje čmeliaky

to sniff out explosives?'

na vyhľadávanie výbušnín?'

Keď som si čítal moje lekárske záznamy,

When I read my medical notes, I saw they'd written:

videl som čo napísali:

'Verí, že včely vedia vyňuchať výbušniny.'"

'Believes bees can sniff out explosives.'"

(Laughter)

Vravel: "Vieš, stále hľadajú

He said, "You know, they're always looking out for nonverbal clues

neverbálne náznaky o mojom duševnom stave.

to my mental state.

Ale ako sedieť normálnym spôsobom?

But how do you sit in a sane way?

How do you cross your legs in a sane way?

Ako prekrížiš nohy normálnym spôsobom?

It's just impossible."

Je to nemožné."

When Tony said that to me,

A keď mi to Tony povedal,

I thought to myself, "Am I sitting like a journalist?

pomyslel som si, "Sedím práve ako novinár?

Prekrížil som nohy ako novinár?"

Am I crossing my legs like a journalist?"

Povedal: "Vieš, mám na jednej strane Stockwellského škrtiča

He said, "You know, I've got the Stockwell Strangler on one side of me,

and I've got the 'Tiptoe Through the Tulips' rapist

a znásilňovača 'podivína' na druhej.

on the other side of me.

So I tend to stay in my room a lot because I find them quite frightening.

Takže som väčšinou vo svojej izbe, lebo ma dosť desia.

And they take that as a sign of madness.

A oni to berú ako znak bláznovstva.

They say it proves that I'm aloof and grandiose."

Vravia, že to potvrdzuje že som odťažitý a zveličujem."

Takže len v Broadmoore je nevôľa tráviť čas so sériovými vrahmi

So, only in Broadmoor would not wanting to hang out with serial killers

be a sign of madness.

znakom šialenstva.

Nuž, pre mňa vyzeral úplne normálny, ale čo už ja viem?

Anyway, he seemed completely normal to me, but what did I know?

Keď som sa vrátil domov, napísal som jeho lekárovi, Anthony Madenovi.

And when I got home I emailed his clinician, Anthony Maden.

Pýtam sa: "Tak aký je to príbeh?"

I said, "What's the story?"

And he said, "Yep. We accept that Tony faked madness

A on: "Hej. Uznali sme, že Tony predstieral šialenstvo aby unikol väzenskému trestu

to get out of a prison sentence, because his hallucinations --

lebo jeho halucinácie, ktoré boli pre začiatok dosť klišé,

that had seemed quite cliche to begin with --

just vanished the minute he got to Broadmoor.

okamžite zmizli ako sa dostal do Broadmoor.

However, we have assessed him,

Ale potom sme ho vyšetrili.

and we've determined that what he is

A určili sme, že je vlastne psychopat."

is a psychopath."

And in fact, faking madness

A vlastne, predstieranie šialenstva

je presne ten druh rafinovaného a manipulatívneho chovania psychopata.

is exactly the kind of cunning and manipulative act of a psychopath.

It's on the checklist: cunning, manipulative.

Je to na zozname, rafinovaný a manipulatívny.

Takže predstierať, že sa vám pokazil mozog,

So, faking your brain going wrong

je dôkaz, že sa vám pokazil mozog.

is evidence that your brain has gone wrong.

And I spoke to other experts,

A hovoril som aj s inými expertmi

and they said the pinstripe suit -- classic psychopath --

a povedali, ten prúžkovaný oblek -- klasický psychopat.

speaks to items one and two on the checklist:

Pripomína to prvé položky na zozname --

výrečnosť, nadprirodzený šarm, velikašský pocit sebapreceňovania.

glibness, superficial charm and grandiose sense of self-worth.

And I said, "Well, but why didn't he hang out with the other patients?"

Spýtal som sa: "A čo, že nechcel byť s inými pacientmi?"

Classic psychopath -- it speaks to grandiosity and also lack of empathy.

Klasický psychopat -- hovorí to o velikášstve a tiež nedostatku empatie.

So all the things that had seemed most normal about Tony

Takže všetky veci, ktoré vyzerali najviac normálne na Tonym

was evidence, according to his clinician,

boli dôkazom, podľa jeho lekára,

že je šialený týmto novým spôsobom.

that he was mad in this new way.

He was a psychopath.

Bol psychopat.

And his clinician said to me, "If you want to know more about psychopaths,

A jeho lekár mi povedal,

"Ak chcete vedieť viac o psychopatoch,

you can go on a psychopath-spotting course

môžete ísť do kurzu pozorovania psychopatie

run by Robert Hare, who invented the psychopath checklist."

Roberta Hare, ktorý vymyslel kontrolný zoznam psychopatie."

So I did.

Tak som to urobil.

I went on a psychopath-spotting course,

Išiel som do kurzu pozorovania psychopatie

and I am now a certified --

a teraz som certifikovaný --

a musím povedať, že zbehlý --

and I have to say, extremely adept -- psychopath spotter.

pozorovateľ psychopatov.

Takže štatistika:

So, here's the statistics:

Jeden zo sto náhodných ľudí je psychopat.

One in a hundred regular people is a psychopath.

Tu je v miestnosti 1500 ľudí.

So there's 1,500 people in his room.

15 z vás sú psychopati.

Fifteen of you are psychopaths.

Aj keď toto číslo rastie na štyri percentá

Although that figure rises to four percent of CEOs and business leaders,

medzi CEO a podnikateľskými vodcami.

so I think there's a very good chance

Takže myslím, že je veľmi dobrá šanca

there's about 30 or 40 psychopaths in this room.

že je tu 30 až 40 psychopatov v tejto miestnosti.

It could be carnage by the end of the night.

Možno sa koncom večera dočkáme masakru.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Hare said the reason why is because capitalism at its most ruthless

Hare povedal, že je to preto, že kapitalizmus vo svojej nemilosrdnosti

rewards psychopathic behavior --

odmeňuje psychopatické chovanie --

the lack of empathy, the glibness,

nedostatok empatie, výrečnosť,

cunning, manipulative.

prefíkanosť, manipulatívnosť.

In fact, capitalism, perhaps at its most remorseless,

V podstate kapitalizmus je tak neľútostný,

is a physical manifestation of psychopathy.

že je fyzickým prejavom psychopatie.

Je to ako forma psychopatie,

It's like a form of psychopathy that's come down to affect us all.

ktorá nás všetkých ovplyvňuje.

Hare said, "You know what? Forget about some guy at Broadmoor

Hare mi povedal "Vieš čo? Zabudni na nejakého týpka v Broadmoore,

who may or may not have faked madness.

ktorý možno predstieral šialenstvo.

Who cares? That's not a big story.

Koho to zaujíma? To nie je veľký príbeh.

The big story," he said, "is corporate psychopathy.

Veľký príbeh," povedal, "je korporátna psychopatia.

You want to go and interview yourself some corporate psychopaths."

Choď a vyspovedaj zopár korporátnych psychopatov."

So I gave it a try. I wrote to the Enron people.

Tak som do toho išiel. Napísal som ľuďom z Enronu.

I said, "Could I come and interview you in prison,

Povedal som, "Môžem prísť a porozprávať sa vo väzení,

aby som zistil či ste psychopati?"

to find out it you're psychopaths?"

Neodpovedali.

(Laughter)

And they didn't reply.

(Laughter)

So I changed tack.

Skúsil som to inak.

I emailed "Chainsaw Al" Dunlap,

Napísal som "Chainsaw Al" Dunlapovi,

the asset stripper from the 1990s.

optimalizátorovi zdrojov z 1990-tych rokov.

He would come into failing businesses

Prichádzal do nefunkčných firiem a prepúšťal 30 percent pracovníkov,

and close down 30 percent of the workforce,

just turn American towns into ghost towns.

urobil z amerických miest mestá duchov.

And I emailed him and I said,

Napísal som mu a povedal,

"I believe you may have a very special brain anomaly

"Verím, že máte veľmi špeciálnu anomáliu mozgu

ktorá vás robí špeciálnym

that makes you ... special,

and interested in the predatory spirit, and fearless.

s predátorským duchom a ste bez strachu.

Can I come and interview you about your special brain anomaly?"

Môžem prísť a spraviť rozhovor

o vašej špeciálnej mozgovej anomálii?"

Odpovedal: "Prídi."

And he said, "Come on over!"

(Laughter)

So I went to Al Dunlap's grand Florida mansion.

Tak som išiel do Al Dunlapovho floridského sídla

It was filled with sculptures of predatory animals.

ktoré bolo naplnené sochami predátorských zvierat.

There were lions and tigers -- he was taking me through the garden --

Boli tam levy, tigre.

Zobral ma do záhrady.

there were falcons and eagles,

Tam boli sokoly a orly.

he was saying, "Over there you've got sharks and --"

Vravel mi, "Tam sú žraloky."

Povedal to trochu zženštilým spôsobom.

he was saying this in a less effeminate way --

"You've got more sharks and you've got tigers."

"Ešte viac žralokov a ďalšie tigre."

It was like Narnia.

Bolo to ako Narnia.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

And then we went into his kitchen.

Potom sme šli do jeho kuchyne.

Now, Al Dunlap would be brought in to save failing companies,

Al Dunlap bol volaný aby zachránil krachujúce podniky.

he'd close down 30 percent of the workforce.

Rušil 30 percent pracovných miest.

And he'd quite often fire people with a joke.

A často ľudí prepúšťal s vtipom.

Like, for instance, one famous story about him,

Napríklad, jedna slávna príhoda o ňom,

somebody came up to him and said, "I've just bought myself a new car."

niekto za ním prišiel a povedal, "Práve som si kúpil nové auto."

And he said, "Well, you may have a new car,

A on na to, "Môžno máte nové auto,

but I'll tell you what you don't have -- a job."

ale poviem vám čo nemáte, prácu."

So in his kitchen --

he was in there with his wife, Judy, and his bodyguard, Sean --

Takže v kuchyni -- stál tam so svojou ženou Judy,

a jeho bodyguardom Seanom -- a povedal som, "Viete, ako som povedal v e-maile"

and I said, "You know how I said in my email

že môžete mať špeciálnu mozgovú anomáliu ktorá vás robí špeciálnym?"

that you might have a special brain anomaly that makes you special?"

He said, "Yeah, it's an amazing theory, it's like Star Trek.

Odpovedal, "Hej, je to úžasná teória.

Je to ako Star Trek. Idete tam, kam ešte žiadny človek pred tým nešiel."

You're going where no man has gone before."

And I said, "Well --" (Clears throat)

A povedal som, "Nuž niektorí psychológovia by povedali,

(Laughter)

Some psychologists might say

that this makes you --" (Mumbles)

že to z vás robí ... " (Mrmle)

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

And he said, "What?"

Opýtal sa: "Čo?"

Dokončil som, "psychopata."

And I said, "A psychopath."

And I said, "I've got a list of psychopathic traits in my pocket.

Vravím, "Mám zo sebou vo vrecku zoznam psychopatických príznakov.

Can I go through them with you?"

Môžem ich s vami prejsť?"

And he looked intrigued despite himself,

Vyzeral zaujato, napriek situácii

and he said, "Okay, go on."

a povedal: "Ok, poďme na to."

And I said, "Okay. Grandiose sense of self-worth."

Vravím: "Fajn, Velikášsky pocit seba ocenenia."

Which I have to say, would have been hard for him to deny,

Ktorý, musím povedať, by popieral len ťažko,

because he was standing under a giant oil painting of himself.

lebo stál pod obrovskou olejomaľbou samého seba.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

He said, "Well, you've got to believe in you!"

Vraví: "Nuž, musíte v seba veriť!"

And I said, "Manipulative."

Ja: "Manipulatívny."

He said, "That's leadership."

On: "To je vodcovstvo."

(Laughter)

And I said, "Shallow affect,

Ja: "Plytký záujem:

neschopnosť zažívať rozsah emócií."

an inability to experience a range of emotions."

He said, "Who wants to be weighed down by some nonsense emotions?"

On: "Kto by chcel aby ho zaťažovali nejaké nezmyselné emócie?"

Takže prechádzal psychopatický zoznam

So he was going down the psychopath checklist,

basically turning it into "Who Moved My Cheese?"

odbíjal ho ako zo sebamotivačnej príručky.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

But I did notice something happening to me the day I was with Al Dunlap.

Ale všimol som si, že sa so mnou niečo stalo za ten deň s Al Dunlapom.

Whenever he said anything to me that was kind of normal --

Keď mi povedal hocičo, čo bolo tak nejak normálne --

like he said "no" to juvenile delinquency,

ako keď povedal že nebol delikvent v mladosti.

he said he got accepted into West Point,

Povedal, že ho prijali na West Point

and they don't let delinquents in West Point.

a na West Point neberú delikventov.

He said "no" to many short-term marital relationships.

Povedal, že nemal krátke manželské vzťahy.

He's only ever been married twice.

Bol ženatý len dvakrát.

Pravda, jeho prvá žena uviedla v žiadosti o rozvod,

Admittedly, his first wife cited in her divorce papers

that he once threatened her with a knife

že ju raz ohrozoval nožom

and said he always wondered what human flesh tasted like,

a vravel, že ho vždy zaujímalo ako chutí ľudské mäso,

ale ľudia si vravia hlúpe veci v zlom manželstve v zápale boja

but people say stupid things to each other

in bad marriages in the heat of an argument,

a jeho druhé manželstvo trvá 41 rokov.

and his second marriage has lasted 41 years.

Takže keď povedal hocičo, čo vyzeralo trochu nepsychopaticky,

So whenever he said anything to me that just seemed kind of non-psychopathic,

pomyslel som si, nuž, toto do svojej knihy nedám.

I thought to myself, well I'm not going to put that in my book.

And then I realized that becoming a psychopath spotter

A vtedy som si uvedomil, že keď som sa stal pozorovateľom psychopatov,

stal som sa sám trochu psychopatom.

had kind of turned me a little bit psychopathic.

Because I was desperate to shove him in a box marked "Psychopath."

Lebo som ho zúfalo chcel zaradiť do škatuľky psychopata.

I was desperate to define him by his maddest edges.

Zúfalo som ho chcel zadefinovať čo najšialenejšími rysmi.

And I realized, my God --

A uvedomil som si, preboha, to som robil 20 rokov.

this is what I've been doing for 20 years.

It's what all journalists do.

To robia všetci novinári.

We travel across the world with our notepads in our hands,

Cestujeme po celom svete, so svojimi notesmi v ruke

and we wait for the gems.

a čakáme na drahokamy.

A drahokamy sú vždy tie najodľahlejšie aspekty

And the gems are always the outermost aspects

of our interviewee's personality.

osobností ľudí ktorých spovedáme.

And we stitch them together like medieval monks,

Dávame ich dokopy ako stredovekí mnísi.

and we leave the normal stuff on the floor.

Normálne veci nechávame na zemi.

Toto je krajina, ktorá príliš diagnostikuje niektoré mentálne poruchy.

And you know, this is a country that over-diagnoses

certain mental disorders hugely.

Childhood bipolar --

Detská bipolárna porucha -- už štvorročné deti

children as young as four are being labeled bipolar

sú označované ako bipolárne,

because they have temper tantrums,

lebo majú náladové záchvaty,

which scores them high on the bipolar checklist.

ktoré vysoko skórujú na zozname bipolarity.

When I got back to London, Tony phoned me.

Keď som sa vrátil do Londýna, volal mi Tony.

He said, "Why haven't you been returning my calls?"

Povedal: "Prečo si mi neodpovedal na telefonáty?"

I said, "Well, they say that you're a psychopath."

Vravím: "Nuž, povedali že si psychopat."

And he said, "I'm not a psychopath."

A on: "Nie som psychopat."

He said, "You know what?

Pokračoval: "Vieš čo, jedna položka na zozname je nedostatok ľútosti,

One of the items on the checklist is lack of remorse,

but another item on the checklist is cunning, manipulative.

ale ďalšia je prefíkanosť, manipulatívnosť.

So when you say you feel remorse for your crime,

Takže keď poviete, že cítite ľútosť za svoje zločiny,

they say, 'Typical of the psychopath

povedia, typický psychopat,

to cunningly say he feels remorse when he doesn't.'

premyslene vraví že cíti ľútosť, keď ju necíti.

It's like witchcraft, they turn everything upside-down."

Je to ako bosoráctvo. Všetko postavia na hlavu."

Dodal: "Mám onedlho posúdenie.

He said, "I've got a tribunal coming up.

Will you come to it?"

Prídeš sa pozrieť?"

Tak som súhlasil.

So I said okay.

So I went to his tribunal.

Prišiel som na jeho posúdenie.

And after 14 years in Broadmoor, they let him go.

A po 14-tich rokov v Broadmoore ho pustili.

Rozhodli, že by nemal byť držaný na neučito,

They decided that he shouldn't be held indefinitely

because he scores high on a checklist that might mean

lebo skóruje vysoko na zozname,

that he would have a greater than average chance of recidivism.

a to môže znamenať, že bude mať nadpriemernú šancu recidívy.

So they let him go.

Tak ho pustili.

And outside in the corridor he said to me,

A vonku na chodbe mi povedal,

"You know what, Jon?

"Vieš čo, Jon?

Každý je trochu psychopatický."

Everyone's a bit psychopathic."

He said, "You are, I am. Well, obviously I am."

Vravel: "Ty si, ja som. Nuž, ja zjavne som."

A ja: "Čo budeš teraz robiť?"

I said, "What are you going to do now?"

A on: "Pôjdem do Belgicka

He said, "I'm going to go to Belgium.

There's a woman there that I fancy.

lebo je tam žena, ktorá sa mi páči.

But she's married, so I'm going to have to get her split up from her husband."

Ale je ženatá, tak ju budem musieť dostať od jej manžela."

(Smiech)

(Laughter)

Nuž, to bolo pred dvoma rokmi,

Anyway, that was two years ago,

and that's where my book ended.

a tým skončila moja kniha.

And for the last 20 months, everything was fine.

A za posledných 20 mesiacov, všetko bolo v poriadku.

Nič zlé sa nestalo.

Nothing bad happened.

He was living with a girl outside London.

Žil s priateľkou pri Londýne.

He was, according to Brian the Scientologist,

Podľa scientológa Briana,

making up for lost time, which I know sounds ominous,

doháňal stratený čas -- viem, znie to zlovestne,

but isn't necessarily ominous.

ale nie je to nevyhnutne tak.

Nanešťastie, po 20-tich mesiacoch,

Unfortunately, after 20 months,

he did go back to jail for a month.

sa na mesiac vrátil do väzenia.

He got into a "fracas" in a bar, he called it.

Zaplietol sa do potýčky v bare, tak to nazval --

a dopadlo to mesiacom väzenia,

Ended up going to jail for a month, which I know is bad,

čo viem, že je zlé,

but at least a month implies that whatever the fracas was,

ale mesiac naznačuje, že akákoľvek ta bitka bola,

it wasn't too bad.

nebolo to tak zlé.

A potom mi zavolal.

And then he phoned me.

And you know what, I think it's right that Tony is out.

A viete čo, myslím, že je správne, že je Tony vonku.

Lebo by sme nemali definovať ľudí podľa ich najbláznivejších čŕt.

Because you shouldn't define people by their maddest edges.

And what Tony is, is he's a semi-psychopath.

A Tony, Tony je polo-psychopat.

Je šedá zóna vo svete, ktorý nemá rád šedé zóny.

He's a gray area in a world that doesn't like gray areas.

Ale šedé zóny sú kde nájdete komplexitu,

But the gray areas are where you find the complexity.

kde nájdete ľudskosť

It's where you find the humanity,

and it's where you find the truth.

a kde nájdete pravdu.

And Tony said to me,

Tony mi povedal,

"Jon, could I buy you a drink in a bar?

"Jon, môžem ťa pozvať na pohárik?

I just want to thank you for everything you've done for me."

Chcem ti len poďakovať za všetko čo si pre mňa urobil."

And I didn't go.

Nešiel som. Čo by ste urobili vy?

What would you have done?

Thank you.

Ďakujem.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)