Strange answers to the psychopath test | Jon Ronson | TED

Translator: Timothy Covell Reviewer: Morton Bast

Translator: Katrina Kask Reviewer: Aari Lemmik

Lugu algab sellest, et olin ühe sõbra pool

The story starts: I was at a friend's house,

ja tal oli riiulil DSM-i köide,

and she had on her shelf a copy of the DSM manual,

mis on psüühikahäirete diagnostiline ja statistiline käsiraamat,

kus on loetletud kõik teadaolevad psüühikahäired.

which is the manual of mental disorders.

It lists every known mental disorder.

50ndatel oli see pigem õhuke brošüür,

kuid siis see aina kasvas ja kasvas

And it used to be, back in the '50s, a very slim pamphlet.

ja praeguseks on seal 886 lehekülge,

And then it got bigger and bigger and bigger,

and now it's 886 pages long.

kus on toodud 374 psüühikahäiret.

And it lists currently 374 mental disorders.

Ma mõtlesin seda lehitsedes,

et kas mul on ka mõni vaimne häire,

So I was leafing through it,

ja tuli välja, et mul on neid lausa 12.

wondering if I had any mental disorders,

(Naer)

Mul on generaliseerunud ärevushäire,

and it turns out I've got 12.

(Laughter)

I've got generalized anxiety disorder,

mis on iseenesestmõistetav.

Mul on uneärevus,

which is a given.

mis tähendab, et esinevad korduvad unenäod,

I've got nightmare disorder,

kus sind jälitatakse või luuseriks kutsutakse.

which is categorized

if you have recurrent dreams of being pursued or declared a failure,

Ja kõigis mu unenägudes ajavad tõesti mind inimesed mööda tänavaid taga

and all my dreams involve people chasing me down the street

ja hüüavad: “Sa oled hädavares!”

(Naer)

going, "You're a failure!"

Mul on vanema ja lapse vahelised suhteprobleemid,

(Laughter)

I've got parent-child relational problems,

milles süüdistan oma vanemaid.

(Naer)

which I blame my parents for.

Ma teen nalja.

(Laughter)

Ma ei tee nalja.

Ma teen nalja!

I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.

Mul on teesklushäire.

I'm kidding.

Ma arvan, et see on üsna haruldane,

And I've got malingering.

et mul on korraga teesklushäire ja generaliseerunud ärevushäire,

And I think it's actually quite rare

to have both malingering and generalized anxiety disorder,

sest teesklemine kaldub mind muutma väga ärevaks.

because malingering tends to make me feel very anxious.

Igatahes sirvisin seda raamatut

ja mõtlesin, kas olen hullem, kui end arvasin olevat,

Anyway, I was looking through this book,

või siiski ei tasuks iseendal vaimset häiret diagnoosida,

wondering if I was much crazier than I thought I was,

or maybe it's not a good idea to diagnose yourself with a mental disorder

kui sa pole väljaõppinud professionaal.

Või äkki on psühhiaatrial mingi veider kalduvus

if you're not a trained professional,

or maybe the psychiatry profession has a kind of strange desire

lahterdada ka iseenesest normaalne käitumine vaimse häirena.

to label what's essentially normal human behavior as a mental disorder.

Ma ei teadnud, mis oli tõde, aga see tundus huvitavana,

I didn't know which of these was true, but I thought it was kind of interesting,

ja arvasin, et võiks rääkida mõne psühhiaatria kriitikuga,

et kuulda ka nende arvamust.

and I thought maybe I should meet a critic of psychiatry

Mis viis selleni, et läksin lõunale saientoloogidega.

to get their view,

which is how I ended up having lunch with the Scientologists.

(Naer)

Briani-nimeline mees, kes juhib saientoloogide tipptiimi,

(Laughter)

It was a man called Brian, who runs a crack team of Scientologists

kelle eesmärgiks on hävitada psühhiaatria, kus iganes see ka ei peituks.

who are determined to destroy psychiatry wherever it lies.

Neid kutsutakse CCHR-iks.

Ma küsisin temalt: "Kas sa saad tõestada mulle,

They're called the CCHR.

And I said to him, "Can you prove to me

et psühhiaatria on pseudoteadus, mida ei saa usaldada?"

that psychiatry is a pseudo-science that can't be trusted?"

Ta vastas: ”Jah, me saame seda tõestada,”

ja ma küsisin "Kuidas?"

And he said, "Yes, we can prove it to you."

Ta ütles: "Me tutvustame sulle Tonyt."

And I said, "How?"

And he said, "We're going to introduce you to Tony."

Ma küsisin: ”Kes on Tony?”

ja ta vastas: ”Tony on Broadmooris.”

And I said, "Who's Tony?"

And he said, "Tony's in Broadmoor."

Broadmoor on Broadmoori haigla.

Varasemalt nimetati seda Broadmoori kriminaalsete vaimuhaigete haiglaks,

Now, Broadmoor is Broadmoor Hospital.

It used to be known as the Broadmoor Asylum for the Criminally Insane.

kuhu saadetakse sarimõrvarid

ja inimesed, kes ei suuda ennast kontrollida.

It's where they send the serial killers,

Ma küsisin Brianilt: "Aga mida Tony siis tegi?"

and the people who can't help themselves.

Ja ta vastas: "Peaaegu mitte midagi.

And I said to Brian, "Well, what did Tony do?"

Ta peksis kellegi läbi või midagi sarnast

And he said, "Hardly anything.

ning otsustas hullu teeselda, et vanglakaristusest pääseda.

He beat someone up or something,

and he decided to fake madness to get out of a prison sentence.

Aga ta teeskles liiga hästi ja nüüd on ta kinni Broadmooris.

But he faked it too well, and now he's stuck in Broadmoor

Ja keegi ei usu, et ta on tegelikult normaalne.

Tahad, me üritame su Broadmoori sisse saada, et Tonyga kohtuda?"

and nobody will believe he's sane.

Do you want us to try and get you into Broadmoor to meet Tony?"

Ja ma vastasin: “Jah, palun."

Sõitsingi siis rongiga Broadmoori.

So I said, "Yes, please."

Kuskil Kemptoni pargi juures hakkasin kontrollimatult haigutama,

So I got the train to Broadmoor.

I began to yawn uncontrollably around Kempton Park,

nagu selgus, teevad seda ka koerad, kui nad ärevuses on,

nad hakkavad kohutavalt haigutama.

which apparently is what dogs also do when anxious,

Jõudsime Broadmoori,

they yawn uncontrollably.

mind viidi läbi ühe ja teise ja kolmanda ja neljanda värava

And we got to Broadmoor.

And I got taken through gate after gate after gate after gate

tervisekeskusesse, kus kohtutakse patsientidega.

into the wellness center, which is where you get to meet the patients.

See paistis nagu hiiglaslik Hampton Inn,

It looks like a giant Hampton Inn.

kõik pastelsetes ja rahustavates toonides.

It's all peach and pine and calming colors.

Ainsaks erksaks värviks oli paanikanuppude punane.

And the only bold colors are the reds of the panic buttons.

Ja siis hakkasid patsiendid sisse valguma.

Nad olid suhteliselt ülekaalulised, kandsid dressipükse

And the patients started drifting in.

And they were quite overweight and wearing sweatpants,

ja paistsid üsna vagurad.

Saientoloog Brian sosistas selle peale

and quite docile-looking.

And Brian the Scientologist whispered to me,

"Nad on ravimite mõju all,"

mis saientoloogide arust on kõige hullem asi maailmas,

"They're medicated,"

which, to the Scientologists, is like the worst evil in the world,

aga mulle tundub, et äkki on see hea mõte.

but I'm thinking it's probably a good idea.

(Naer)

Ja siis ütles Brian: “See ongi Tony.”

(Laughter)

Ning üks mees kõndis sisse.

And then Brian said, "Here's Tony."

Ta polnud ülekaalus, ta oli väga heas füüsilises vormis.

And a man was walking in.

And he wasn't overweight, he was in very good physical shape.

Ja ta ei olnud dressipükstes,

vaid kandis peenetriibulist ülikonda.

And he wasn't wearing sweatpants,

Ta käsi oli välja sirutatud

he was wearing a pinstripe suit.

nagu keegi sarjast “The Apprentice”.

And he had his arm outstretched

Ta nägi välja kui mees, kes oli end meelega nii riidesse pannud

like someone out of The Apprentice.

He looked like a man who wanted to wear an outfit

veenmaks mind, et ta on täiesti normaalne.

that would convince me that he was very sane.

Ta võttis istet.

Küsisin: “Kas on tõsi, et sa teesklesid siia sisse saamiseks?"

And he sat down.

And I said, "So is it true that you faked your way in here?"

Ta vastas: "Jah. Absoluutselt. Ma peksin ühe inimese läbi 17-aastasena.

And he said, "Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I beat someone up when I was 17.

Kui olin vanglas kohut ootamas,

ütles mu kongikaaslane mulle:

And I was in prison awaiting trial,

“Tead, mida sul tuleks teha?

Teeskle hullu.

and my cellmate said to me,

'You know what you have to do?

Ütle, et oled hull ja sind saadetakse kuskile mõnusasse haiglasse.

Fake madness.

Tell them you're mad, you'll get sent to some cushy hospital.

Õed toovad sulle pitsat ja sul on oma PlayStation."

Nurses will bring you pizzas, you'll have your own PlayStation.'"

Küsisin: “Kuidas sa seda siis tegid?”

Ta ütles: “Palusin kokkusaamist vangla psühhiaatriga.

I said, "Well, how did you do it?"

Olin just näinud filmi “Kokkupõrge",

He said, "Well, I asked to see the prison psychiatrist.

kus inimesed saavad seksuaalset rahuldust autode vastu seina puruks sõitmisest.

And I'd just seen a film called 'Crash,'

in which people get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.

Ma siis ütlesin psühhiaatrile:

“Mulle pakub rahuldust autode vastu seina puruks sõitmine."

So I said to the psychiatrist,

'I get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.'"

Küsisin: "Mida veel?"

Ta jätkas: “Ah jaa, ütlesin psühhiaatrile,

And I said, "What else?"

He said, "Oh, yeah. I told the psychiatrist

et tahan vaadata surevaid naisi,

that I wanted to watch women as they died,

sest see laseks mul end normaalsemana tunda."

Küsisin: “Kust sa selle peale tulid?”

because it would make me feel more normal."

Ta vastas: “Ah, Ted Bundy biograafiast, mis oli vangla raamatukogus.”

I said, "Where'd you get that from?"

He said, "Oh, from a biography of Ted Bundy that they had

Igal juhul teeskles ta enda sõnul liiga hästi.

at the prison library."

Anyway, he faked madness too well, he said.

Ja teda ei saadetud mingisse hubasesse haiglasse

vaid ta saadeti Broadmoori.

And they didn't send him to some cushy hospital.

Ja kohe, kui ta sinna jõudis

They sent him to Broadmoor.

ja pilgu üle koha lasi, küsis ta näha psühhiaatrit:

And the minute he got there,

"See on kohutav arusaamatus.

said he took one look at the place, asked to see the psychiatrist,

Ma ei ole vaimuhaige."

said, "There's been a terrible misunderstanding.

Ma küsisin: “Kaua sa oled siin olnud?"

I'm not mentally ill."

Ta ütles: "Kui oleksin oma aja vanglas ära istunud

I said, "How long have you been here for?"

oma algse kuritöö eest, oleksin saanud viis aastat.

He said, "Well, if I'd just done my time in prison

for the original crime, I'd have got five years.

Ma olen Broadmooris olnud 12 aastat."

I've been in Broadmoor for 12 years."

Tony sõnul on märksa raskem veenda inimesi,

et oled terve mõistuse juures, kui veenda neid selles, et oled hull.

Tony said that it's a lot harder to convince people you're sane

Ta lisas: "Ma arvasin, et parim viis normaalsena näida,

than it is to convince them you're crazy.

on rääkida inimestega normaalselt normaalsetest asjadest

He said, "I thought the best way to seem normal

would be to talk to people normally about normal things

nagu jalgpall või mis telekast tuleb.

Ma tellin ajakirja The New Scientist

like football or what's on TV.

ja seal oli artikkel,

I subscribe to New Scientist,

kuidas USA sõjavägi õpetab maamesilasi nuuskima välja lõhkekehasid.

and recently they had an article

about how the U.S. Army was training bumblebees to sniff out explosives.

No ma ütlesin siis õele:

“Kas sa tead, et USA sõjaväes treenitakse maamesilasi

So I said to a nurse,

nuuskima välja lõhkekehasid?”

'Did you know that the U.S. Army is training bumblebees

Kui lugesin oma haiguslugu, oli seal kirjas:

to sniff out explosives?'

When I read my medical notes, I saw they'd written:

“Usub, et mesilased suudavad avastada lõhkekehasid.”

'Believes bees can sniff out explosives.'"

(Naer)

Ta ütles: “Kas tead, nad otsivad alati mitteverbaalseid märke

(Laughter)

minu vaimse seisundi kohta.

He said, "You know, they're always looking out for nonverbal clues

Aga kuidas istuda terve inimese kombel?

to my mental state.

Kuidas panna normaalselt jalga üle põlve?

But how do you sit in a sane way?

See on lihtsalt võimatu."

How do you cross your legs in a sane way?

Kui Tony seda mulle ütles,

siis hakkasin ka mõtlema: "Kas ma istun nagu ajakirjanik?

It's just impossible."

When Tony said that to me,

I thought to myself, "Am I sitting like a journalist?

Kas ma panen jalga üle põlve nagu ajakirjanik?”

Ta jätkas: “Saad aru, ühel pool on mul Stockwelli kägistaja

Am I crossing my legs like a journalist?"

He said, "You know, I've got the Stockwell Strangler on one side of me,

ja teisel pool tuntud sarivägistaja.

and I've got the 'Tiptoe Through the Tulips' rapist

Nii et ma olen päris palju oma toas, sest nad tekitavad minus hirmu.

on the other side of me.

So I tend to stay in my room a lot because I find them quite frightening.

Aga seda võetakse ka vaimuhaiguse märgina.

Öeldakse, et see tõestab, et olen endassetõmbunud ja suurusluuluga."

And they take that as a sign of madness.

They say it proves that I'm aloof and grandiose."

Ainult Broadmooris peetakse sarimõrvarite vältimist

So, only in Broadmoor would not wanting to hang out with serial killers

tõestuseks, et oled ebanormaalne.

Igatahes tundus ta täiesti normaalne, aga mida mina ka tean?

be a sign of madness.

Anyway, he seemed completely normal to me, but what did I know?

Koju jõudes kirjutasin ta raviarstile Anthony Madenile.

Küsisin, et mis lugu seal taga on.

And when I got home I emailed his clinician, Anthony Maden.

Ja ta vastas: "Jah. Me nõustume, et Tony teeskles hullu,

I said, "What's the story?"

And he said, "Yep. We accept that Tony faked madness

et pääseda vanglakaristusest,

sest ta hallutsinatsioonid, mis paistsid päris klišeelikud,

to get out of a prison sentence, because his hallucinations --

kadusid Broadmoori jõudes koheselt.

that had seemed quite cliche to begin with --

Ent oleme teda analüüsinud

just vanished the minute he got to Broadmoor.

ja teinud kindlaks,

However, we have assessed him,

et tema puhul on tegu psühhopaadiga.”

and we've determined that what he is

Tegelikult on vaimuhaiguse teesklemine

is a psychopath."

täpselt psühhopaadile omane salakaval ja manipuleeriv käitumine.

And in fact, faking madness

is exactly the kind of cunning and manipulative act of a psychopath.

See on sümptomite nimekirjas: salakaval, manipuleeriv.

Niisiis, et teesklemine, et su peas pole kõik korras

It's on the checklist: cunning, manipulative.

ongi tõestuseks, et su peas pole kõik korras.

So, faking your brain going wrong

Rääkisin ka teiste ekspertidega,

is evidence that your brain has gone wrong.

ja öeldi, et peenetriibuline ülikond - psühhopaadile tüüpiline -

And I spoke to other experts,

and they said the pinstripe suit -- classic psychopath --

kinnitab esimest ja teist diagnostilist sümptomit:

lobe jutt, pealiskaudne sarm ja kõrgendatud enesehinnang.

speaks to items one and two on the checklist:

glibness, superficial charm and grandiose sense of self-worth.

Ma küsisin: “Aga miks ta sel juhul teiste patsientidega ei sõbrustanud?"

And I said, "Well, but why didn't he hang out with the other patients?"

Tüüpiline psühhopaat ongi üleolev ja vähese empaatiavõimega.

Classic psychopath -- it speaks to grandiosity and also lack of empathy.

Niisiis kõik, mis tundus Tony puhul täiesti normaalne,

So all the things that had seemed most normal about Tony

kinnitas tema arsti arvates seda,

was evidence, according to his clinician,

et ta oli tänapäevases mõttes hull.

Ta oli psühhopaat.

that he was mad in this new way.

Ta arst lisas: “Kui tahad psühhopaatide kohta rohkem teada,

He was a psychopath.

And his clinician said to me, "If you want to know more about psychopaths,

võid minna psühhopaatide tuvastamise kursusele,

you can go on a psychopath-spotting course

mida teeb Robert Hare, kes koostas psühhopaadi diagnostikavahendi."

run by Robert Hare, who invented the psychopath checklist."

Ma siis läksingi.

Ma läksin psühhopaatide tuvastamise koolitusele,

So I did.

ja olen nüüd diplomeeritud -

I went on a psychopath-spotting course,

and I am now a certified --

pean lisama, et väga vilunud - psühhopaadimääraja.

and I have to say, extremely adept -- psychopath spotter.

Statistika on järgmine:

So, here's the statistics:

üks inimene sajast on psühhopaat.

One in a hundred regular people is a psychopath.

Siin ruumis on 1500 inimest,

So there's 1,500 people in his room.

15 teist on psühhopaadid.

Fifteen of you are psychopaths.

Kuigi see protsent tõuseb neljani, tippjuhtide ja edukate ettevõtjate puhul,

Although that figure rises to four percent of CEOs and business leaders,

on päris suur tõenäosus,

et siin on praegu 30 või 40 psühhopaati.

so I think there's a very good chance

there's about 30 or 40 psychopaths in this room.

Täna võib asi veel veresaunaga lõppeda...

It could be carnage by the end of the night.

(Naer)

(Laughter)

Hare sõnul on põhjuseks see, et halastamatu kapitalism

Hare said the reason why is because capitalism at its most ruthless

premeerib psühhopaatilist käitumist -

rewards psychopathic behavior --

empaatiavõime puudumine, jooksev jutt,

the lack of empathy, the glibness,

salakavalus ja manipuleerimine.

Kapitalism võib-olla ongi oma kõige julmemal kujul

cunning, manipulative.

In fact, capitalism, perhaps at its most remorseless,

psühhopaatia reaalne väljendus.

is a physical manifestation of psychopathy.

See on nagu psühhopaatia vorm, mis on tulnud meid mõjutama.

It's like a form of psychopathy that's come down to affect us all.

Hare ütles: "Tead mis? Unusta see Broadmoori tüüp,

kes võib teeselda hullu, aga ei pruugi.

Hare said, "You know what? Forget about some guy at Broadmoor

Keda huvitab? Pole väga oluline.

who may or may not have faked madness.

Oluline on aga,” ütles ta "korporatiivne psühhopaatia.

Who cares? That's not a big story.

The big story," he said, "is corporate psychopathy.

Äkki lähed ja intervjueerid mõnd suurettevõtte psühhopaati."

You want to go and interview yourself some corporate psychopaths."

Ma siis proovisin.

Kirjutasin Enroni inimestele.

Kirjutasin: ”Kas võin teid vanglas intervjueerida,

So I gave it a try. I wrote to the Enron people.

et teada saada, kas olete psühhopaadid?”

I said, "Could I come and interview you in prison,

(Naer)

to find out it you're psychopaths?"

Nad ei vastanud.

(Laughter)

(Naer)

And they didn't reply.

Muutsin siis taktikat.

(Laughter)

Kirjutasin Mootorsae-Al Dunlapile,

So I changed tack.

I emailed "Chainsaw Al" Dunlap,

kes 1990ndatel saneeris firmade varasid.

the asset stripper from the 1990s.

Ta tuli pankrotistuvatesse firmadesse,

lasi lahti 30% töötajatest,

He would come into failing businesses

muutes mitmed Ameerika linnad kummituslinnadeks.

and close down 30 percent of the workforce,

just turn American towns into ghost towns.

Meilisin talle ja ütlesin:

"Ma usun, et teil on väga eriline aju anomaalia,

And I emailed him and I said,

mis teeb teid... eriliseks,

"I believe you may have a very special brain anomaly

loomult kiskjalikuks ning kartmatuks.

that makes you ... special,

and interested in the predatory spirit, and fearless.

Kas võiksin teiega intervjuu teha teie erilise ajuanomaalia teemal ?”

Can I come and interview you about your special brain anomaly?"

Ja ta vastas: "Tule aga!"

(Naer)

Ma siis läksin Al Dunlapi uhkesse Florida häärberisse.

And he said, "Come on over!"

(Laughter)

So I went to Al Dunlap's grand Florida mansion.

See oli täis kiskjate skulptuure.

It was filled with sculptures of predatory animals.

Oli lõvisid ja tiigreid - ta viis mind läbi aia -

There were lions and tigers -- he was taking me through the garden --

seal olid pistrikud ja kotkad,

jätkates "Seal on haid ja," -

there were falcons and eagles,

öeldes seda vähem edeval toonil -

he was saying, "Over there you've got sharks and --"

"seal on veel haisid ja tiigreid."

he was saying this in a less effeminate way --

"You've got more sharks and you've got tigers."

See oli nagu Narnia.

(Naer)

It was like Narnia.

(Laughter)

Edasi läksime ta kööki.

Niisiis Al Dunlap kutsuti kohale pankrotistuvate firmade päästmiseks,

And then we went into his kitchen.

Now, Al Dunlap would be brought in to save failing companies,

ta vallandas 30% töötajatest.

Sageli vallandas ta inimesi justkui naljatades.

he'd close down 30 percent of the workforce.

And he'd quite often fire people with a joke.

Näiteks üks tuntud lugu -

keegi tuli tema juurde ja ütles “Ostsin just endale uue auto,"

Like, for instance, one famous story about him,

somebody came up to him and said, "I've just bought myself a new car."

mille peale tema ütles "No sul võib ju olla uus auto,

aga las ma ütlen, mida sul ei ole - töökohta.”

And he said, "Well, you may have a new car,

but I'll tell you what you don't have -- a job."

Seal tema köögis -

ta oli seal koos oma naise Judy ja ihukaitsja Seaniga -

So in his kitchen --

he was in there with his wife, Judy, and his bodyguard, Sean --

ütlesin: “Mäletad, et mainisin oma kirjas,

et sul võib olla eriline ajuanomaalia, mis muudab su eriliseks?"

and I said, "You know how I said in my email

that you might have a special brain anomaly that makes you special?"

Ta vastas: “Jah, see on jube lahe teooria, nagu Star Trek.

He said, "Yeah, it's an amazing theory, it's like Star Trek.

Lähed sinna, kus keegi pole varem käinud.”

Ja ma ütlesin: “No tegelikult...”

You're going where no man has gone before."

And I said, "Well --" (Clears throat)

(Naer)

"mõni psühholoog võiks öelda,

(Laughter)

Some psychologists might say

et sa oled...”

(Pobin)

(Naer)

that this makes you --" (Mumbles)

Ta küsis: "Kuidas?"

(Laughter)

Ja ma ütlesin: ”Psühhopaat.”

And he said, "What?"

ja lisasin “Mul on taskus nimekiri psühhopaadi iseloomujoontest.

And I said, "A psychopath."

And I said, "I've got a list of psychopathic traits in my pocket.

Kas ma saaksin need koos sinuga läbi vaadata?"

Can I go through them with you?"

Hoolimata kõigest näis ta huvitatud

ja ütles: "Jah, lase käia."

And he looked intrigued despite himself,

Ma alustasin: "Okei. Kõrgendatud enesehinnang."

and he said, "Okay, go on."

And I said, "Okay. Grandiose sense of self-worth."

Pean ütlema, et tal oleks olnud raske seda eitada,

sest ta seisis sel hetkel hiiglasliku teda ennast kujutava õlimaali all.

Which I have to say, would have been hard for him to deny,

because he was standing under a giant oil painting of himself.

(Naer)

(Laughter)

Ta vastas: “Noh, endasse tuleb ju uskuda!”

He said, "Well, you've got to believe in you!"

Jätkasin: "Manipuleeriv."

Ta vastas: "See on juhiomadus."

And I said, "Manipulative."

(Naer)

He said, "That's leadership."

Ma ütlesin: “Emotsionaalne külmus,

(Laughter)

võimetus tunda erinevaid emotsioone.”

And I said, "Shallow affect,

Ta vastas: “Kes tahaks lasta end mingitel mõttetutel emotsioonidel morjendada?"

an inability to experience a range of emotions."

He said, "Who wants to be weighed down by some nonsense emotions?"

Ta võttis kogu kontrollnimekirja läbi,

pöörates selle põhimõtteliselt "Kes näppas minu juustu?" raamatuks.

So he was going down the psychopath checklist,

basically turning it into "Who Moved My Cheese?"

(Naer)

(Laughter)

Märkasin, et midagi muutus ka minus sel Al Dunlapiga koosveedetud päeval.

But I did notice something happening to me the day I was with Al Dunlap.

Igal korral, kui ta ütles midagi, mis tundus normaalsena -

näiteks, et tal ei olnud noorpõlves seadusrikkumisi,

Whenever he said anything to me that was kind of normal --

ja et ta sai sisse West Pointi sõjaväeakadeemiasse,

like he said "no" to juvenile delinquency,

ja sinna ei võeta vastu õigusrikkujaid.

he said he got accepted into West Point,

and they don't let delinquents in West Point.

Ta vastas "ei" ka mitmete lühiajalistele abielusuhet kohta.

He said "no" to many short-term marital relationships.

Ta oli abiellunud kahel korral.

Väidetavalt oli tema esimene naine lahutuspaberites maininud,

He's only ever been married twice.

et ta oli üks kord teda noaga ähvardanud,

Admittedly, his first wife cited in her divorce papers

öeldes, et ta on alati tahtnud teada, kuidas inimliha maitseb,

that he once threatened her with a knife

aga inimesed ütlevadki üksteisele igasugu lollusi

and said he always wondered what human flesh tasted like,

kui abielu läheb viltu ja tülitsetakse

but people say stupid things to each other

ning tema teine abielu on kestnud juba 41 aastat.

in bad marriages in the heat of an argument,

and his second marriage has lasted 41 years.

Alati kui ta ütles midagi, mis tundus pigem mitte-psühhopaatiline,

So whenever he said anything to me that just seemed kind of non-psychopathic,

mõtlesin omaette, et no seda ma küll oma raamatusse ei pane.

I thought to myself, well I'm not going to put that in my book.

Ja siis ma taipasin, et üritades saada psühhopaadi määrajaks,

And then I realized that becoming a psychopath spotter

olin ka ise muutunud veidike psühhopaatiliseks,

had kind of turned me a little bit psychopathic.

sest üritasin teda meeleheitlikult pühhopaadiks tembeldada.

Because I was desperate to shove him in a box marked "Psychopath."

Üritasin teda määratleda tema kõige äärmuslikemate joonte kaudu.

I was desperate to define him by his maddest edges.

Ja ma mõistsin,

et olen teinud seda juba 20 aastat.

And I realized, my God --

Kõik ajakirjanikud teevad seda.

this is what I've been doing for 20 years.

Reisime mööda maailma märkmik näpus

It's what all journalists do.

We travel across the world with our notepads in our hands,

ja otsime "pärle".

Ja pärlid on alati need kõige äärmuslikumad jooned

and we wait for the gems.

And the gems are always the outermost aspects

meie intervjueeritavate isiksustes.

Traageldame need kokku nagu keskeagsed mungad,

of our interviewee's personality.

And we stitch them together like medieval monks,

ja jätame normaalse kraami põrandale vedelema.

and we leave the normal stuff on the floor.

Nagu teate, ülediagnoositakse meie maal

mitmeid vaimseid häireid

And you know, this is a country that over-diagnoses

Populaarne on lapse-ea bipolaarne häire -

certain mental disorders hugely.

lausa 4aastased lapsed lahterdatakse bipolaarseks,

Childhood bipolar --

children as young as four are being labeled bipolar

sellepärast, et neil on jonnihood,

mis bipolaarsuse kontrollnimekirjas annab palju punkte.

because they have temper tantrums,

which scores them high on the bipolar checklist.

Londonisse tagasi jõudes sain kõne Tonylt.

When I got back to London, Tony phoned me.

Ta küsis: "Miks sa ei ole mu kõnedele vastanud?"

He said, "Why haven't you been returning my calls?"

Ma vastasin: "No nad ütlevad, et sa oled psühhopaat."

I said, "Well, they say that you're a psychopath."

Ta ütles: "Ma ei ole psühhopaat.

Tead mis?

And he said, "I'm not a psychopath."

Üks punkt nimekirjas on süütunde puudumine,

He said, "You know what?

aga teine punkt on salakaval ja manipuleeriv.

One of the items on the checklist is lack of remorse,

but another item on the checklist is cunning, manipulative.

Nii et kui sa ütled, et kahetsed oma kuritegu,

siis nad ütlevad: "Tüüpiline psühhopaadile

So when you say you feel remorse for your crime,

kavalalt tunnistada oma süüd, kui ta tegelikult seda ei tunne."

they say, 'Typical of the psychopath

to cunningly say he feels remorse when he doesn't.'

See on nagu nõidus, nad pööravad kõik tagurpidi."

It's like witchcraft, they turn everything upside-down."

Ta lisas: "Mul tuleb peatselt kohtuistung.

Kas sa tuleksid sinna?"

He said, "I've got a tribunal coming up.

Ma vastasin, et olgu.

Will you come to it?"

Ma läksin ta kohtuistungile.

So I said okay.

Ja pärast 14 aastat Broadmooris lasti tal minna.

So I went to his tribunal.

And after 14 years in Broadmoor, they let him go.

Nad otsustasid, et nad ei peaks teda määramata ajaks kinni hoidma vaid sellepärast,

et ta vastab mingitele punktidele kontrollnimekirjas,

They decided that he shouldn't be held indefinitely

because he scores high on a checklist that might mean

mille kohaselt on tal keskmisest kõrgem tõenäosus retsidivismiks.

that he would have a greater than average chance of recidivism.

Niisiis nad lasid tal minna.

Ja koridoris ta ütles mulle:

So they let him go.

"Tead mis, Jon?

And outside in the corridor he said to me,

Kõik on natuke psühhopaatilised."

"You know what, Jon?

Ta ütles: "Sina oled. Mina olen. No mina olen ilmselgelt."

Everyone's a bit psychopathic."

He said, "You are, I am. Well, obviously I am."

Ma küsisin: "Mis sa nüüd tegema hakkad?"

Ta vastas: "Ma lähen Belgiasse.

I said, "What are you going to do now?"

Seal on üks naine, kes mulle meeldib.

He said, "I'm going to go to Belgium.

Aga ta on abielus, nii et ma pean ta oma mehest kuidagi lahku ajama.”

There's a woman there that I fancy.

But she's married, so I'm going to have to get her split up from her husband."

(Naer)

(Laughter)

Igatahes see oli kaks aastat tagasi

ja sealkohas lõppes mu raamat.

Anyway, that was two years ago,

Ja viimased 20 kuud oli kõik hästi.

and that's where my book ended.

And for the last 20 months, everything was fine.

Midagi halba ei juhtunud.

Ta elas ühe tüdrukuga Londoni lähistel.

Nothing bad happened.

Saientoloog Briani kohaselt

He was living with a girl outside London.

üritas ta korvata kaotsiläinud aega,

He was, according to Brian the Scientologist,

mis kõlab küll kurjakuulutavalt,

making up for lost time, which I know sounds ominous,

aga ei pruugi seda olla.

but isn't necessarily ominous.

Kahjuks pärast 20 kuud,

läks ta vangi kuuks ajaks.

Unfortunately, after 20 months,

Ta sattus ühes baaris “arusaamatusesse", nagu ta seda nimetas.

he did go back to jail for a month.

He got into a "fracas" in a bar, he called it.

Mille eest ta läks kuuks ajaks vangi, mis küll on halb,

aga üks kuu tähendab, et mis iganes arusaamatus see oli,

Ended up going to jail for a month, which I know is bad,

but at least a month implies that whatever the fracas was,

polnud see väga hull.

Ja siis ta helistas mulle.

it wasn't too bad.

Ja ma leian, et on õige, et Tony on vabaduses.

And then he phoned me.

And you know what, I think it's right that Tony is out.

Sest inimesi ei tohiks lahterdada nende kõige hullemate omaduste järgi.

Because you shouldn't define people by their maddest edges.

Ja Tony puhul on tegu pool-psühhopaadiga.

And what Tony is, is he's a semi-psychopath.

Ta jääb kuskile halli alasse maailmas, kus ei ole ruumi hallidele aladele.

He's a gray area in a world that doesn't like gray areas.

Aga just tänu hallidele aladele tuleb esile maailma mitmetahulisus.

But the gray areas are where you find the complexity.

Sealt leiab inimlikkuse

ja sealt leiab tõe.

It's where you find the humanity,

Ja Tony ütles mulle:

and it's where you find the truth.

"Jon, kas ma võin sulle baaris joogi välja teha?

And Tony said to me,

"Jon, could I buy you a drink in a bar?

Ma tahaks sind tänada kõige eest, mis sa minu heaks oled teinud."

I just want to thank you for everything you've done for me."

Ja ma ei läinud.

Mida teie oleksite teinud?

And I didn't go.

What would you have done?

Tänan.

(Aplaus)

Thank you.

(Applause)