Afra Raymond: Three myths about corruption

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Translator: Eldin Grabovica Reviewer: Ema Bilbija Zulic

Okay, this morning I'm speaking

Jutros ću da vam pričam

on the question of corruption.

o problemu korupcije.

And corruption is defined

Korupcija se definiše

as the abuse of a position of trust

kao zloupotreba položaja

for the benefit of yourself -- or, in the case of our context,

radi lične koristi, ili u kontekstu ove priče,

your friends, your family or your financiers.

radi koristi vaših prijatelja, porodice ili mecena.

Okay? Friends, family and financiers.

Jasno? Prijatelja, porodice i mecena.

But we need to understand what we understand about corruption,

Ali, moramo shvatiti šta razumijemo o korupciji.

and we need to understand that

Moramo da shvatimo

we have been miseducated about it, and we have to admit that.

da su nas pogrešno učili o njoj, i to se mora priznati.

We have to have the courage to admit that

Moramo imati hrabrosti da to priznamo

to start changing how we deal with it.

da bismo počeli mijenjati svoj odnos prema njoj.

The first thing is that the big myth, number one,

Prvo, najveći mit je to

is that in fact it's not really a crime.

da ona u stvari i nije zločin.

When we get together with friends and family

Kada smo sa prijateljima i porodicom,

and we discuss crime in our country,

i kada razgovaramo o kriminalu u našoj zemlji,

crime in Belmont or crime in Diego or crime in Marabella,

kriminalu u Belmontu, Diegu ili u Marabeli,

nobody's speaking about corruption.

niko ne govori o korupciji.

That's the honest truth.

To je prava istina.

When the Commissioner of Police comes on TV to talk about crime,

Kada policijski komesar na TV govori o kriminalu,

he isn't speaking about corruption.

on ne govori o korupciji.

And we know for sure when the Minister of National Security

Sigurno znamo da ni ministar sigurnosti,

is speaking about crime, he's not talking about corruption either.

kada govori o kriminalu, ne govori o korupciji.

The point I'm making is that it is a crime.

Poenta je da ona jeste kriminal.

It is an economic crime, because we're involving the looting of taxpayers' money.

To je privredni kriminal, jer se pljačka novac poreskih obveznika.

Public and private corruption is a reality.

Korupcija u javnom i privatnom sektoru je realnost.

As somebody who comes from the private sector,

Kao pripadnik privatnog sektora

I can tell you there's a massive amount of corruption

mogu vam reći da u njemu ima jako puno korupcije

in the private sector that has nothing to do with government.

koja nije povezana sa vladom.

The same bribes and backhanders and things that take place under the table,

Ista podmićivanja, mita i poslovi "ispod stola"

it all takes place in the private sector.

se dešavaju i u privatnom sektoru.

Today, I'm focusing on public sector corruption,

Danas ću se fokusirati na korupciju u javnom sektoru

which the private sector also participates in.

u kojem i privatni sektor taođer ima udjela.

The second important myth to understand --

Drugi važan mit kojeg treba shvatiti,

because we have to destroy these myths,

jer moramo razbiti te mitove,

dismantle them and destroy them and ridicule them --

ogoliti ih, rasturiti i učiniti ih apsurdnim,

the second important myth to understand

taj drugi mit kojeg treba shvatiti

is the one that says

je onaj u kojem se kaže

that in fact corruption is only a small problem --

da je korupcija zapravo samo mali problem.

if it is a problem, it's only a small problem,

Ako predstavlja problem, onda je to mali problem

that in fact it's only a little 10 or 15 percent,

koji zapravo čini tek 10-15%,

it's been going on forever, it probably will continue forever,

da oduvijek postoji, da će vjerovatno uvijek postojati,

and there's no point passing any laws, because there's little we can do about it.

i da nema svrhe donositi zakone, jer se malo šta može uraditi.

And I want to demonstrate that that, too,

Ja želim da pokažem da je i to

is a dangerous myth, very dangerous.

veoma opasan mit.

It's a piece of public mischief.

To je dio javnog nemara.

And I want to speak a little bit,

Želim da govorim malo o

take us back about 30 years.

vremenu prije 30 godina.

We're coming out today from Trinidad and Tobago,

Danas se javljamo iz Trinidada i Tobaga,

a resource-rich, small Caribbean country,

male karipske zemlje bogate prirodnim resursima.

and in the early 1970s we had a massive increase in the country's wealth,

Početkom '70-ih došlo je do velikog bogaćenja zemlje,

and that increase was caused by the increase in world oil prices.

a do toga je došlo zbog rasta cijena nafe u svijetu.

We call them petrodollars. The treasury was bursting with money.

To nazivamo "petro-dolari". Državna kasa bila krcata novcem.

And it's ironic, because

Ironija je u tome

we're standing today in the Central Bank.

što smo danas u Centralnoj banci.

You see, history's rich in irony.

Vidite, historija je puna ironije.

We're standing today in the Central Bank,

Danas smo u Centralnoj banci

and the Central Bank is responsible for a lot of the things I'm going to be speaking about.

a ona je odgovorna za mnogo toga o čemu ću govoriti.

Okay? We're talking about irresponsibility in public office.

Govorimo o neodgovornosti u državnoj službi.

We're speaking about the fact that across the terrace,

Govorimo o činjenici da se preko puta

the next tower is the Ministry of Finance,

nalazi toranj Ministarstva finansija,

and there's a lot of connection with us today,

i na mnogo načina je povezan sa nama danas,

so we're speaking within your temple today. Okay?

tako da mi danas govorimo u vašem hramu.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

The first thing I want to talk about is that

Prvo želim da govorim o tome da smo mi,

kada se prije oko 40 godina sav taj novac ulivao u našu zemlju,

when all of this money flowed into our country about 40 years ago,

we embarked, the government of the day embarked

da je naša tadašnja vlada,

on a series of government-to-government arrangements

postigla niz međudržavnih sporazuma

to have rapidly develop the country.

za brzi razvoj zemlje.

And some of the largest projects in the country

Neki od najvećih projekata u zemlji

were being constructed through government-to-government arrangements

su izvedeni putem međudržavnih sporazuma

with some of the leading countries in the world,

sa nekim od vodećih zemalja svijeta,

the United States and Britain and France and so on and so on.

kao što su SAD, Britanija, Francuska, itd.

As I said, even this building we're standing in -- that's one of the ironies --

Kao što rekoh, ironija je da je čak i ova zgrada

this building was part of that series of complexes,

bila dio niza kompleksa

what they called the Twin Towers.

kojeg su zvali "Blizanci".

It became so outrageous, the whole situation,

Kompletna situacija je postala toliko nečuvena

that in fact a commission of inquiry was appointed,

da je zapravo imenovana istražna komisija

and it reported in 1982, 30 years ago it reported --

koja je 1982. godine, prije 30 godina,

the Ballah Report -- 30 years ago,

podnijela Balah izvještaj -- prije 30 godina

and immediately the government-to-government arrangements were stopped.

i međudržavni sporazumi su momentalno obustavljeni.

Tadašnji Premijer vlade je otišao u parlament

The then-Prime Minister went to Parliament

to give a budget speech, and he said some things that I'll never forget.

da govori o budžetu i rekao je nešto što nikada neću zaboraviti.

They went right in here. I was a young man at the time.

Bili su baš na ovom mjestu. Tada sam bio mladić.

It went right into my heart.

Pogodilo me je pravo u srce.

And he said that, in fact — Let me see if this thing works.

I rekao je da, zapravo... Da vidim radili i ovo.

Are we getting a, yeah?—

Imamo li...? Da.

That's what he told us.

Evo šta nam je rekao.

He told us that, in fact,

Rekao je da su, zapravo

two out of every three dollars of our petrodollars

dva od svaka tri dolara od naših petro-dolara

that we spent, the taxpayers' money,

koje smo potrošili, novac poreskih obveznika,

was wasted or stolen.

protraćena ili ukradena.

So the 10 or 15 percent is pure mischief.

Dakle, 10-15% je čisti nemar.

As we say, it's a nancy-story. Forget it.

Kako se kod nas kaže, to su bapske priče. Zaboravite.

That's for little children. We are big people,

To je za malu djecu. Mi smo odrasli,

and we're trying to deal with what's happening in our society.

i pokušavamo da se nosimo sa situacijom u našem društvu.

Okay? This is the size of the problem.

Eto koliki je to problem.

Okay? Two thirds of the money stolen or wasted.

Dvije trećine novca je ukradeno ili protraćeno.

That was 30 years ago. 1982 was Ballah.

To je bilo prije 30 godina. 1982. godine je bio Balah izvještaj.

So what has changed?

I, šta se promijenilo?

I don't like to bring up embarrassing secrets

Ne volim da iznosim sramotne tajne

to an international audience, but I have to.

pred svjetskom publikom, ali moram.

Four months ago, we suffered a constitutional outrage in this country.

U ovoj zemlji smo prije četiri mjeseca doživjeli ustavnu sramotu.

We call it the Section 34 fiasco, the Section 34 fiasco,

To nazivamo "fijasko Člana 34",

a suspicious piece of law, and I'm going to say it like it is,

koji je sumnjivi zakon. Reći ću onako kako jeste.

a suspicious piece of law

was passed at a suspicious time

Taj sumnjivi zakon

je donesen u sumnjivo vrijeme

to free some suspects. (Laughter)

da bi se oslobodili neki osmunjičeni.

And it was called, those people are called

Te ljude nazivaju

the Piarco Airport accused.

optuženicima sa aerodroma Piarco.

I'm going to have my own lexicon speaking here today.

Danas ću koristiti svoju terminologiju.

They are the Piarco Airport accused.

To su optuženici sa aerodroma Piarco.

It was a constitutional outrage of the first order,

To je bila ustavna sramota prve klase,

and I have labeled it the Plot to Pervert Parliament.

i ja sam je nazvao "Zavjera za izopačenje parlamenta".

Our highest institution in our country was perverted.

Naša najviša državna institucija je bila izopačena.

We are dealing with perverts here

Ovdje se bavimo izopačenicima

of an economic and financial nature.

privredne i finansijske prirode.

Do you get how serious this problem is?

Shvatate li ozbiljnost problema?

There was massive protest. A lot of us in this room

Bili su ogromni protesti. Mnogi od prisutnih ovdje

took part in the protest in different forms.

su učestvovali u protestitma na razne načine.

Most importantly, the American embassy complained,

Najvažnije je da se Američka ambasada žalila,

so Parliament was swiftly reconvened,

pa se parlament ponovo sastao

and the law was reversed, it was repealed.

That's the word lawyers use. It was repealed.

i zakon je poništen. Ukinut je.

Tu riječ koriste pravnici. Zakon je ukinut.

But the point is

Ali poenta je u tome

that Parliament was outwitted in the whole course of events,

da je u svemu tome parlament nadmudren.

because what really happened is that,

jer zapravo se desilo to da je,

because of the suspicious passage of that law,

zbog sumnjivog donošenja samog zakona,

the law was actually passed into effect

taj zakon stupio na snagu

on the weekend we celebrated our 50th anniversary of independence,

za vikend kada smo proslavljali 50. godišnjicu nezavisnosti,

our jubilee of independence.

naš Dan nezavisnosti.

So that is the kind of outrage of the thing.

I to je ta sramota.

It was kind of a nasty way to get maturation, but we got it,

Bio je to gadan način sazrijevanja, ali smo sazreli,

because we all understood it,

jer smo svi to razumjeli,

and for the first time that I could remember,

there were mass protests against this corruption.

i prvi put koliko se ja sjećam,

došlo je do masovnih protesta protiv te korupcije.

And that gave me a lot of hope. Okay?

I to mi je dalo veliku nadu.

Those of us who are, sometimes you feel like

Nama koji se ponekad osjećamo

you're a little bit on your own doing some of this work.

kao da smo sami u svemu ovome.

That passage of the law and the repeal of the law

Donošenje i ukidanje zakona

fortified the case of the Piarco Airport accused.

je učvrstilo slučaj optuženika sa aerodroma Piarco.

So it was one of those really superior double bluff kind of things that took place.

To je zapravo bila jedna vrhunska dvostruka prevara.

But what were they accused of?

Ali za šta su bili optuženi?

What was it that they were accused of?

I'm being a bit mysterious for those of you out there. What were they accused of?

Za šta su zaista bili optuženi?

Malo sam vam tajanstven. Za šta su bili optuženi?

We were trying to build, or reconstruct largely,

Pokušavali smo da izgradimo, ili obnovimo velikim dijelom,

an airport that had grown outdated.

jedan zastarjeli aerodrom.

The entire project cost about 1.6 billion dollars,

Čitav projekat je koštao oko 1.6 milijardi dolara,

Trinidad and Tobago dollars,

tj. dolara Trinada i Tobaga.

and in fact, we had a lot of bid-rigging

Zapravo bilo je tu dosta namještanja tendera,

and suspicious activity, corrupt activity took place.

i sumnjivog i nečistog posla.

And to get an idea of what it consisted of,

A da biste shvatili šta je to bilo,

and to put it in context in relationship to this whole

i da biste mogli povezati sa ovim

second myth about it being no big thing,

drugim mitom kako to nije ništa strašno,

we can look at this second slide here.

možemo pogledati ovaj drugi slajd.

And what we have here -- I am not saying so,

I, šta imamo ovdje? Nisam ja ovo naveo.

this is the Director of Public Prosecutions in a written statement. He said so.

To je u pisanoj izjavi naveo Direktor Javnog tužioca.

On nam govori da je od 1.6 milijardi troškova za projekat,

And he's telling us that for the $1.6 billion cost of the project,

one billion dollars has been traced

jedna milijarda dolara pronađena

to offshore bank accounts.

na računima u offshore bankama.

One billion dollars of our taxpayers' money

Jedna milijarda dolara poreskih obveznika

has been located in offshore bank accounts.

je pronađena na računima offshore banaka.

Being the kind of suspicious person I am,

Pošto sam sumnjičav po karakteru,

I am outraged at that, and I'm going to pause here,

to me razbjesnilo, i ovdje ću zastati.

I'm going to pause now and again and bring in different things.

Pomalo ću zastajati i uvoditi nove stvari

Sada ću zastati i spomenuti nešto što sam vidio

I'm going to pause here and bring in something I saw

in November last year at Wall Street. I was at Zuccotti Park.

na Wall Street-u, u novembru prošle godine. Bio sam u parku Zuccotti.

It was autumn. It was cool. It was damp. It was getting dark.

Bila je jesen. Bilo je hladno i vlažno. Smrkavalo se.

And I was walking around with the protesters

Ja sam šetao naokolo sa demonstrantima preko puta

looking at the One Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street movement walking around.

zgrade One Wall Street, oko koje je bio pokret "Okupirajmo Wall Street".

And there was a lady with a sign, a very simple sign,

Bila je tu jedna gospođa sa vrlo jednostavnim transparentom,

a kind of battered-looking blonde lady,

pomalo oronula plavuša,

and the sign was made out of Bristol board, as we say in these parts,

a transparent je napravljen na tzv. hamer papiru

and it was made with a marker.

i napisan markerom.

And what it said on that sign hit me right in the center.

Natpis me je dotaknuo do srži.

It said, "If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention."

Pisalo je: "Ako niste bijesni, onda niste obratili pažnju.

Ako vas sve ovo nije razbjesnilo, onda niste obratili pažnju.

If you're not outraged by all of this, you haven't been paying attention.

So listen up, because we're getting into even deeper waters.

Zato poslušajte, jer zalazimo još dublje.

My brain started thinking.

Mozak je počeo da radi.

Well, what if --

Šta ako...

Ipak sam sumnjičav. Čitam puno špijunske literature.

because I'm suspicious like that. I read a lot of spy novels and stuff.

What if -- (Laughter)

Šta ako... (Smijeh)

But to make it in these wrongs,

Da biste preživjeli među ovim nedjelima

you have to read a lot of spy novels

morate čitati puno špijunskih romana

and follow some of that stuff, right? (Laughter)

i pratiti takvu literaturu, zar ne?

But what if this wasn't the first time?

A šta ako to nije bio prvi put?

Šta ako je to samo prvi put

What if this is just the first time

da su ti-i-ti uhvaćeni?

that the so-and-sos had been caught?

What if it had happened before? How would I find out?

Šta ako se to i prije dešavalo? Kako bih ja to saznao?

Now, the previous two examples I gave

Moja dva prva primjera

were to do with construction sector corruption, okay?

su imala veze sa korupcijom u građevinskom sektoru.

And I have the privilege at this time

Sada imam privilegiju

to lead the Joint Consultative Council, which is a not-for-profit.

da vodim jedno neprofitno Mješovito konsultantsko vijeće.

We're at jcc.org.tt, and we have the -- we are the leaders

Naša web adresa je "jcc.org.tt" i mi smo lideri

in the struggle to produce a new public procurement system

u borbi za stvaranje novog sistema javnih nabavki

about how public money is transacted.

za prenos državnog novca.

So those of you interested in finding out more about it,

Oni koji žele da saznaju više

or joining us or signing up on any of our petitions, please get involved.

ili da nam se pridruže ili potpišu neku od peticija, samo izvolite.

But I'm going to segue to another thing that relates,

Preći ću na drugu stvar koja je povezana,

because one of my private campaigns I've been conducting

jer je jedna od moji ličnih kampanja koju vodim

for over three and a half years

već duže od tri i po godine

is for transparency and accountability

za transparetnost i odgovornost

around the bailout of CL Financial.

u vezi sa pomaganjem kompaniji "CL Financial".

CL Financial is the Caribbean's largest ever conglomerate, okay?

CL Financial je najveći konglomerat na Karibima.

And without getting into all of the details,

Da ne bih ulazio u detalje,

it is said to have collapsed — I'm using my words very carefully —

priča se da je propao. Pažljivo biram riječi.

it's said to have collapsed in January of '09,

Priča se da je propao u Januaru 2009. godine

which is just coming up to nearly four years.

i od tada je prošlo već skoro četiri godine.

In an unprecedented fit of generosity --

U jednoj neviđenoj navali velikodušnosti,

and you have to be very suspicious about these people --

a morate biti sumnjičavi kada su ti ljudi u pitanju,

in an unprecedented — and I'm using that word carefully —

u neviđenoj, i ovdje pažljivo biram riječi,

unprecedented fit of generosity, the government of the day

u neviđenoj navali velikodušnosti, tedašnja vlada

signed, made a written commitment, to repay all of the creditors.

potpisuje, pismeno se obavezuje, da će isplatiti sve kreditore.

And I can tell you without fear of contradiction

I kažem vam to bez straha od oprečnog mišljenja

that hasn't happened anywhere else on the planet.

da se to nije desilo nigdje na planeti.

Let's understand, because we lack context.

Da shvatimo, jer nam fali konteksta.

People are telling us it's just like Wall Street. It's not just like Wall Street.

Ljudi nam kaožu da je to isto kao na Wall Street-u. E pa nije.

Trinidad and Tobago is like a place with different laws of physics or biology or something.

TT je poput mjesta sa različim zakonima fizike ili biologija, i sl.

It's not just like anywhere. (Applause)

Nije baš kao na drugim mjestima.

Nije baš kao na drugim mjestima.

It's not just like anywhere. It's not just like anywhere.

Here is here, and out there is out there. Okay?

Ovdje je jedno, a tamo negdje ne nešto drugo.

I'm serious now.

Ozbiljan sam.

Listen. They've had bailouts on Wall Street.

Poslušajte. Na Wall Streetu su pomagali kompanijama.

They've had bailouts in London.

U Londonu su pomagali.

They've had bailouts in Europe.

U Evropi su pomagali.

In Africa, they've had bailouts. In Nigeria, six of the major

U Africi su pomagali. U Nigeriji, šest najvećih

commercial banks collapsed at the same time as ours, eh?

komercijanil banaka je propalo u isto vrijeme kada i naše.

It's interesting to parallel how the Nigerian experience has --

Zanimljivo je uporediti kako su Nigerijci

how they've treated it, and they've treated it

to riješili, a riješili su

very well compared to us.

jako dobro, za razliku od nas.

Nowhere on the planet

Nigdje na planeti

have all the creditors been bailed out

nisu kreditori isplaćeni

in excess of what their statutory entitlements were.

više nego što im je po statutu pripadalo.

Only here. So what was the reason for the generosity?

Samo ovdje. Pa zbog čega tolika velikodušnost?

Is our government that generous? And maybe they are.

Je li naša vlada toliko velikodušna? A možda i jeste.

Let's look at it. Let's look into it.

Da vidmo. Pogledajmo malo.

So I started digging and writing and so and so on,

Tako sam počeo da tražim i pišem, itd. itd.

and that work can be found, my personal work

i taj rad, moj lični rad, se može naći

can be found at AfraRaymond.com, which is my name.

na stranici AfraRaymond.com, što je ujedno i moje ime.

It's a not-for-profit blog that I run.

To je moj neprofitni blog.

Not as popular as some of the other people, but there you go.

Nije popularan kao što su neki drugi, ali šta je tu je.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But the point is that the bitter experience of Section 34,

Poenta je u tome da me je to gorko iskustvo Člana 34,

that plot to pervert Parliament, that bitter experience

ta zavjera za izopačenjem parlamenta,

that took place in August,

koja se desila u avgustu,

when we were supposed to be celebrating our independence,

kada smo trebali da slavimo Dan nezavisnosti,

going into September, forced me to check myself

početkom septembra, natjerala da se preispitam

and recalculate my bearings,

provjerim svoj kompas,

and to go back into some of the work, some of the stuff I'd written

i vratim se nekim radovima koje sam pisao

and some of the exchanges I'd had with the officials

i nekim razmjenama sa zvaničnicima

to see what was really what.

da vidim šta je zaista šta.

As we say in Trinidad and Tobago, who is who and what is what?

Kao što ovdje kažemo, koje ko, i šta je šta?

Okay? We want to try to recalculate.

Želimo da pokušamo da promislimo.

And I made a Freedom of Information application

U maju sam napravio aplikaciju "Sloboda informacija"

in May this year to the Ministry of Finance.

za Ministarstvo finansija.

The Ministry of Finance is the next tower over.

Ministarstvo finansija je u sljedećem tornju preko puta.

This is the other context.

To je drugi kontekst.

The Ministry of Finance, we are told,

Rečeno nam je da Ministarstvo finansija

is subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

podliježe odredbama Zakona o slobodi informacija.

I'm going to take you through a worked example of whether that's really so.

Dat ću vam jedan praktični primjer da vidite je li baš tako.

The Central Bank in which we stand this morning

Centralna banka u kojoj se jutros nalazimo

is immune from the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

ne podliježe odredbama Zakona o slobodi informisanja.

So in fact, you can't ask them anything,

Stoga im ne možete ništa tražiti,

and they don't have to answer anything.

i ne moraju ništa odgovarati.

That is the law since 1999.

Taj zakon važi od 1999. godine.

So I plunged into this struggle, and I asked four questions.

Zato sam uskočio u tu borbu i postavio četiri pitanja.

And I'll relate the questions to you in the short form with the reply,

Reći ću vam ta pitanja ukratko skupa sa odgovorima,

so you could understand, as I said, where we are.

tako da shvatite gdje se nalazimo.

Here is not like anywhere else.

Ovdje nije kao negdje drugo.

Question number one:

Prvo pitanje:

I asked to see the accounts of CL Financial,

Tražio sam da vidim račune kompanije CL Financial,

and if you can't show me the accounts --

a ako ne možete da mi pokažete račune,

the Minister of Finance is making statements,

Ministar finansija daje izjave,

passing new laws and giving speeches and so on.

donosi nove zakone, drži govore i tako dalje,

What are the figures he's relying on?

na koje se on podatke poziva?

It's like that joke: I want whatever he's drinking.

To je poput onog vica: "Ja ću ono što onaj tamo pije."

And they wrote back and said to me,

I oni su odgovorili i napisali mi,

well what do you really mean?

šta tačno mislite?

So they hit my question with a question.

Odgovorili su mi pitanjem.

Second point: I want to see

Druga stvar: Želim da vidim

who are the creditors of the group who have been repaid?

ko su kreditori grupe kojoj je plaćeno?

Let me pause here to point out to you all

Dozvolite da prekinem ovdje da vam naglasim

that 24 billion dollars of our money has been spent on this.

da je zo ovo potrošeno 24 milijarde dolara našeg novca.

That is about three and a half billion U.S. dollars

To je oko 3,5 milijarde američkih dolara.

coming out of a small -- we used to be resource-rich --

koji potiču iz male... a nekada smo bili karipska zemlja

Caribbean country. Okay?

bogata prirodnim resursima.

And I asked the question,

I postavio sam pitanje,

who was getting that three and a half billion dollars?

ko je dobio te 3,5 milijarde dolara?

And I want to pause again to bring up context,

I opet ću prekinuti radi konteksta,

because context helps us to get clarity understanding this thing.

jer nam pomaže da jasnije shvatimo ovo.

There's a particular individual who is in the government now.

U vladi sada postoji jedna posebna osoba.

The name of the person doesn't matter.

Njeno ime nije bitno.

And that person made a career

Ta osoba je izgradila karijeru

out of using the Freedom of Information Act

koristeći Zakon o slobodi informacija

to advance his political cause.

u korist svog političkog cilja.

Okay? His name isn't important.

Njegovo ime nije važno.

I wouldn't dignify it. I'm on a point.

Ne bih mu davao značaj. Dolazim do poente.

The point is, that person made a career out of using

Poenta je da je ta osoba izgradila karijeru

the Freedom of Information Act to advance his cause.

koristeći Zakon o slobodi informacija za svoj cilj.

And the most famous case

A najpoznatiji slučaj je onaj

was what we came to call the Secret Scholarship Scandal,

kojeg smo nazvali Skandal tajnog stipendiranja,

where in fact there was about 60 million dollars in government money

gdje se oko 60 miliona dolara državnog novca

that had been dispersed in a series of scholarships,

rasulo u čitavom nizu stipendija

and the scholarships hadn't been advertised, and so and so on and so on.

a stipendije nisu objavljivane, itd. itd.

And he was able to get the court, using that act of Parliament,

On je bio u stanju da natjera sud, pomoću Zakona o parlamentu,

Freedom of Information Act,

Zakona o slobodi informaicja,

to release the information,

da objavi te podatke

and I thought that was excellent.

i ja sam mislio da je to odlično.

Fantastic.

Fantastično.

But you see, the question is this:

Ali vidite, pitanje je sljedeće:

If it's right and proper for us to use the Freedom of Information Act

Ako je ispravno da koristimo Zakon o slobodi informacija

and to use the court

i da koristimo sud

to force a disclosure about 60 million dollars in public money,

da prisilno objelodani oko 60 milona dolara državnog novca,

it must be right and proper

mora da je ispravno

for us to force a disclosure about 24 billion dollars.

da natjeramo i objelodanjivanje 24 milijarde dolara.

You see? But the Ministry of Finance,

Vidite? Ali, Ministarstvo finansija,

the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance,

Stalni sekretar Ministarstva finansija,

wrote me and said to me, that information is exempt too.

mi je pisao i rekao da je i taj podatak izuzet.

You see? This is what we're dealing with, okay?

Vidite li o čemu se radi?

The third thing I will tell you

Treće što ću vam reći

is that I also asked

jeste da sam takođe pitao

for the directors of CL Financial,

da li su direktori "CL Financial",

whether in fact they were making filings under our Integrity in Public Life Act.

slali prijave u skladu sa Zakonom o integritetu u javnom životu

We have an Integrity in Public Life Act

Imamo Zakon o integritetu u javnom životu

as part of our framework supposed to safeguard the nation's interest.

kao dio okvira koji bi trebao da čuva državni interes.

And public officials are supposed to file

Javni zvaničnici moraju prijaviti

to say what it is they have in terms of assets and liabilities.

šta je to što imaju u smislu sredstava i obaveza.

And of course I've since discovered that they're not filing,

I naravno, od tada sam otkrio da ne prijavljuju

and in fact the Minister of Finance has not even asked them to file.

i da im Ministar finansija zapravo nikada nije tražio da prijave.

So here we have it. We have a situation where

Dakle, ovdje imamo situaciju

the basic safeguards of integrity and accountability

gdje su odbačeni osnovna zaštita integriteta,

and transparency have all been discarded.

odgovornosti i transpertnosi.

I've asked the question in the legal and required fashion.

Pitanje sam postao zakonski i prema pravilu.

It's been ignored.

Izignorisano je.

The sort of thing that motivated us around Section 34,

Zbog onog što nas je motivisalo oko Člana 34

we need to continue to work on that. We can't forget it.

moramo da nastavimo raditi na tome. Ne možemo to zaboraviti.

I have defined this as the single largest expenditure in the country's history.

To sam definisao ka najveći pojedinačni rashod u historiji zemlje.

It's also the single largest example

Takođe je najveći pojedinačni primjer

of public corruption according to this equation.

javne korupcije, a prema ovoj jednačini.

And this is my reality check.

I ovo je moja provjera stvarnosti.

Where you have an expenditure of public money

Tamo gdje se novac javno troši

and it is without accountability

bez odgovornosti

and it's without transparency,

i bez transparentnosti,

it will always be equal to corruption,

to će uvijek biti jednako korupciji,

whether you're in Russia or Nigeria or Alaska,

bilo da ste u Rusiji, Nigeriji ili na Aljasci.

it will always be equal to corruption, and that is what we are dealing with here.

Uvijek će se izjednačavati sa korupcijom, i o tome govorime.

I'm going to continue the work

Nastavit ću sa radom,

to press on, to get some resolution

pritiskati, da dobijem neka rješenja

of those matters at the Ministry of Finance.

tih stvari u Ministarstvu finansija.

If it is I have to go to court personally, I will do that.

Ako budem morao lično da idem na sud, otići ću.

We will continue to press on.

Nastavit ćemo sa pristiscima.

We will continue to work within JCC.

Nastavit ćemo da radimo unutar JCC.

But I want to step back from the Trinidad and Tobago context

Ali želim da se odmaknem od konteksta TT

and bring something new to the table

i iznesem nešto novo

in terms of an international example.

u smislu međunarodnog primjera.

We had the journalist [Heather] Brooke speaking

Govorio nam je novinar Brok

about her battle against government corruption,

o njenoj borbi protiv korupcije vlade

and she introduced me to this website, Alaveteli.com.

i ona mi je pokazala ovu web stranicu: alaveteli.com

And Alaveteli.com is a way for us to have an open database

Alavateli.com je način da imamo otvorenu bazu podataka

for Freedom of Information applications,

za prijave slobode informacija,

and speak with each other.

i da razgovaramo međusobno.

I could see what you're applying for.

Ja mogu vidjeti za šta se vi prijavljujete.

You could see what I applied for and what replies I got.

Vi možete da vidite za šta sam se ja prijavio i kako mi je odgovoreno.

We can work on it together. We need to build a collective database

Možemo skupa raditi na njoj. Moramo izgraditi kolektivnu bazu podataka

and a collective understanding of where we are to go to the next point.

i skupa razumjeti kuda ćemo dalje.

We need to increase the consciousness.

Moramo podići svijest.

The final thing I want to say is in relation to this one,

Posljednja stvar koju želim da kažem je povezana sa ovim,

which is a lovely website from India

što je ujedno i divna web stranica iz Indije

called IPaidABribe.com.

pod nazivom IPaidABribe.com

They have international branches,

Oni imaju međunarodne ogranke

and it's important for us to tune into this one.

i važno nam je da se uključimo u ovu.

IPaidABribe.com is really important,

IPaidABribe.com je veoma važan

a good one to log on to and see.

dobar za posjetiti i vidjeti.

I'm going to pause there. I'm going to ask you for your courage.

Ovdje ću zastati i zamoliti vas da budete hrabri.

Discard the first myth; it is a crime.

Odbacite prvi mit. To jeste kriminal.

Discard the second myth; it is a big thing.

Odbacite drugi mit. To jeste strašno.

It's a huge problem. It's an economic crime.

To je ogroman problem. To je privredni kriminal.

And let us continue working together

I nastavimo da radimo skupa.

to betterment in this situation,

da poboljšamo situaciju,

stability and sustainability in our society. Thank you.

stabilnost i održivost u našem društvu. Hvala.