Afra Raymond: Three myths about corruption

152,350 views ・ 2013-02-20

TED


μ•„λž˜ μ˜λ¬Έμžλ§‰μ„ λ”λΈ”ν΄λ¦­ν•˜μ‹œλ©΄ μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.

00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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λ²ˆμ—­: Jungsoo Kim κ²€ν† : Gichung Lee
00:16
Okay, this morning I'm speaking
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였늘 μ•„μΉ¨μ—λŠ”
00:17
on the question of corruption.
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•΄λ³΄κ³ μž ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:21
And corruption is defined
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ˜ μ •μ˜λŠ”
00:23
as the abuse of a position of trust
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μžμ‹ μ˜ μ‹ μš©μ˜ μœ„μΉ˜λ₯Ό λ‚¨μš©ν•˜λŠ” 것인데
00:28
for the benefit of yourself -- or, in the case of our context,
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κ·Έ λͺ©μ μ€ μžμ‹ , λ˜λŠ” 우리 λ¬Έλ§₯μ—μ„œλŠ”
00:32
your friends, your family or your financiers.
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μžμ‹ μ˜ 친ꡬ, κ°€μ‘±, 투자자 등이 될 수 있죠.
00:35
Okay? Friends, family and financiers.
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κ·Έλ ‡μ£ ? 친ꡬ, κ°€μ‘±, 그리고 νˆ¬μžμžλ“€μ΄μš”.
00:39
But we need to understand what we understand about corruption,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 우린 λΆ€νŒ¨λ₯Ό μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠ”μ§€λ₯Ό 이해해야 ν•˜κ³ 
00:43
and we need to understand that
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•΄
00:46
we have been miseducated about it, and we have to admit that.
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잘λͺ» κ΅μœ‘λ°›μ•„ μ™”λ‹€λŠ”κ²ƒλ„ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜κ³  인정해야 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:49
We have to have the courage to admit that
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λΆ€νŒ¨ λ¬Έμ œμ— λŒ€μ²˜ν•˜λŠ” 방법을 λ°”κΎΈκΈ° μœ„ν•΄
00:51
to start changing how we deal with it.
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이λ₯Ό μΈμ •ν•˜λŠ” 용기λ₯Ό κ°€μ Έμ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:53
The first thing is that the big myth, number one,
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첫번째 크게 잘λͺ»λœ λ―ΏμŒμ€
00:56
is that in fact it's not really a crime.
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λΆ€νŒ¨λŠ” μ‹€μ œ 범죄가 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌλŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:59
When we get together with friends and family
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μΉœκ΅¬λ‚˜ κ°€μ‘±κ³Ό ν•¨κ»˜
01:00
and we discuss crime in our country,
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우리 λ‚˜λΌμ—μ„œ λ²Œμ–΄μ§€κ³  μžˆλŠ” 범죄
01:02
crime in Belmont or crime in Diego or crime in Marabella,
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즉, 벨λͺ¬νŠΈ, 디에고, ν˜Ήμ€ λ§ˆλΌλ²¨λΌμ—μ„œ λ²Œμ–΄μ§€κ³ μžˆλŠ” 범죄에 λŒ€ν•΄ 이야기할 λ•Œ,
01:06
nobody's speaking about corruption.
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아무도 λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜μ§„ μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:07
That's the honest truth.
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이게 λ°”λ‘œ μ •μ§ν•œ ν˜„μ‹€μ΄μ—μš”.
01:09
When the Commissioner of Police comes on TV to talk about crime,
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κ²½μ°°μ²­μž₯이 TV에 λ‚˜μ™€μ„œ 범죄에 λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν• λ•Œ
01:12
he isn't speaking about corruption.
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜μ§„ μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:14
And we know for sure when the Minister of National Security
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κ΅­λ°©λΆ€ μž₯관이 λ²”μ£„μ—λŒ€ν•΄ λ§ν• λ•Œ
01:16
is speaking about crime, he's not talking about corruption either.
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠ” 것이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌλŠ” κ±Έ 우린 λͺ¨λ‘ μ•Œκ³ μžˆμ£ .
01:20
The point I'm making is that it is a crime.
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μ œκ°€ λ§ν•˜κ³ μž ν•˜κ³ μ‹Άμ€ 것은 이건 λ²”μ£„λΌλŠ” κ²ƒμ΄μ—μš”.
01:23
It is an economic crime, because we're involving the looting of taxpayers' money.
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이건 경제 λ²”μ£„μ—μš”. λ‚©μ„Έμžλ“€μ˜ λˆμ„ ν›”μΉ˜κ³  μžˆμœΌλ‹ˆκΉŒμš”.
01:28
Public and private corruption is a reality.
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곡곡 그리고 μ‚¬μ μœΌλ‘œ λ²Œμ–΄μ§€λŠ” λΆ€νŒ¨λŠ” ν˜„μ‹€μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:30
As somebody who comes from the private sector,
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λ―Όκ°„ κΈ°μ—…μ—μ„œ μΌν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠ” μ‚¬λžŒμœΌλ‘œμ¨
01:32
I can tell you there's a massive amount of corruption
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λ§ν• μˆ˜ μžˆλŠ”κ±΄λ°, 정뢀와 κ΄€λ ¨μ—†λŠ”
01:35
in the private sector that has nothing to do with government.
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μ–΄λ§ˆμ–΄λ§ˆν•œ μ–‘μ˜ λΆ€νŒ¨κ°€ λ―Όκ°„ λΆ€λ¬Έμ—μ„œ 행해지고 μžˆμ–΄μš”.
01:37
The same bribes and backhanders and things that take place under the table,
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νƒμžλ°‘μ—μ„œ μ˜€κ³ κ°€λŠ” λ’·λˆκ³Ό λ‡Œλ¬Ό λͺ¨λ‘
01:40
it all takes place in the private sector.
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λ―Όκ°„μ—μ„œ λ²Œμ–΄μ§€κ³  μžˆμ–΄μš”.
01:43
Today, I'm focusing on public sector corruption,
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였늘, μ „ κ³΅κ³΅λΆ€λ¬Έμ—μ„œ λ²Œμ–΄μ§€κ³  μžˆλŠ” λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜λ €κ³  ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:46
which the private sector also participates in.
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μ—¬κΈ°μ—” 민간뢀문도 ν•œ λͺ« ν•˜κ³ μžˆμ£ .
01:49
The second important myth to understand --
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 이해해야 ν•  λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έ 잘λͺ»λœ λ―ΏμŒμ€--
01:52
because we have to destroy these myths,
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 이 잘λͺ»λœ λ―ΏμŒλ“€μ„
01:53
dismantle them and destroy them and ridicule them --
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κΉ¨μ–΄ μ—†μ• κ³  μ›ƒμŒκ±°λ¦¬λ‘œ λ§Œλ“€μ–΄μ•Ό ν•˜κΈ° λ•Œλ¬ΈμΈλ°--
01:56
the second important myth to understand
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 이해해야 ν•˜λŠ” λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έ 잘λͺ»λœ λ―ΏμŒμ€
01:58
is the one that says
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λΆ€νŒ¨λŠ” 였직
02:00
that in fact corruption is only a small problem --
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μž‘μ€ λ¬Έμ œμ— λΆˆκ³Όν•˜λ‹€λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€--
02:04
if it is a problem, it's only a small problem,
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λ§Œμ•½ λΆ€νŒ¨κ°€ 문제라고 해도, μž‘μ€ λ¬Έμ œλ°–μ— λ˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•„μ„œ,
02:06
that in fact it's only a little 10 or 15 percent,
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겨우 10% ν˜Ήμ€ 15%밖에 λ˜μ§€ μ•Šκ³ ,
02:10
it's been going on forever, it probably will continue forever,
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이런 μž‘μ€ λ¬Έμ œλŠ” 항상 μžˆμ—ˆκ³  계속 μžˆμ„ 것이며,
02:14
and there's no point passing any laws, because there's little we can do about it.
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그리고 μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λ³„λ‘œ ν•  수 μžˆλŠ”κ²Œ μ—†κΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ— 법을 ν†΅κ³Όμ‹œν‚€λŠ” 것이 μ“Έλ°μ—†λŠ” μ§“μ΄λΌλŠ” 믿음.
02:17
And I want to demonstrate that that, too,
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μ €λŠ” μ΄λŸ¬ν•œ 잘λͺ»λœ 믿음, λ˜ν•œ,
02:20
is a dangerous myth, very dangerous.
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맀우 μœ„ν—˜ν•œ λ―ΏμŒμ΄λΌλŠ” 것을 λ³΄μ—¬λ“œλ¦¬κ³  μ‹ΆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:22
It's a piece of public mischief.
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이건 우리 λͺ¨λ‘μ—κ²Œ ν•΄λ₯Ό λΌμΉ˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:24
And I want to speak a little bit,
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μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ 30λ…„ μ „μ˜ 이야기λ₯Ό
02:27
take us back about 30 years.
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쑰금 ν•˜κ³  μ‹ΆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:29
We're coming out today from Trinidad and Tobago,
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μ €ν¬λŠ” μžμ›μ΄ ν’λΆ€ν•˜κ³  μΉ΄λ¦¬λΈŒν•΄ 지역에 μœ„μΉ˜ν•œ
02:31
a resource-rich, small Caribbean country,
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νŠΈλ¦¬λ‹ˆλ‹€λ“œ 토바고라고 λΆˆλ¦¬λŠ” μž‘μ€ λ‚˜λΌμ—μ„œ μ™”μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:34
and in the early 1970s we had a massive increase in the country's wealth,
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1970년도 μ΄ˆμ— 우리 λ‚˜λΌλŠ” κΈ‰κ²©νžˆ λΆ€μœ ν•΄μ§€κΈ° μ‹œμž‘ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:39
and that increase was caused by the increase in world oil prices.
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ꡭ제 μœ κ°€κ°€ κΈ‰λ“±ν–ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄μ£ .
02:43
We call them petrodollars. The treasury was bursting with money.
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우린 이것을 였일 λ‹¬λŸ¬λΌκ³  λΆ€λ¦…λ‹ˆλ‹€. ꡭ고에 돈이 λ„˜μ³λ‚˜κ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆμ£ .
02:46
And it's ironic, because
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μ—­μ„€μ μ΄κ²Œλ„ μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μ§€κΈˆ
02:49
we're standing today in the Central Bank.
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쀑앙은행에 μ„œμžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:51
You see, history's rich in irony.
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μ•„μ‹œλ‹€μ‹œν”Ό, μ—­μ‚¬λŠ” λŒ€λ‹¨νžˆ μ—­μ„€μ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:54
We're standing today in the Central Bank,
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μ €ν¬λŠ” μ§€κΈˆ 쀑앙은행에 μ„œμžˆκ³ ,
02:55
and the Central Bank is responsible for a lot of the things I'm going to be speaking about.
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이 쀑앙은행은 μ œκ°€ μ§€κΈˆλΆ€ν„° λ§ν•˜λ €λŠ” 것에 λŒ€ν•΄ λ§Žμ€ μ±…μž„μ„ 지고 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:59
Okay? We're talking about irresponsibility in public office.
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우린 μ§€κΈˆ κ³΅κ³΅κΈ°κ΄€μ˜ λ¬΄μ±…μž„μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜λ € ν•˜λŠ”κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:02
We're speaking about the fact that across the terrace,
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μ € ν…ŒλΌμŠ€ λ„ˆλ¨Έμ—μžˆλŠ”
03:05
the next tower is the Ministry of Finance,
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μž¬μ •λΆ€λΌλŠ” 탑에 κ΄€ν•œ 진싀을 μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:07
and there's a lot of connection with us today,
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μ˜€λŠ˜λ‚  μš°λ¦¬μ™€ 관련이 κΉŠμ€ 이야기죠.
03:09
so we're speaking within your temple today. Okay?
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μ§€κΈˆ 우린 μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ—κ²Œ μ€‘μš”ν•œ 이야기λ₯Ό ν•˜κ³ μžˆλŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:11
(Applause)
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(λ°•μˆ˜)
03:16
The first thing I want to talk about is that
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μ œκ°€ 첫 번째둜 μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜κ³  싢은것은
03:19
when all of this money flowed into our country about 40 years ago,
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40λ…„μ „ λ§Žμ€ 자본이 κ΅­λ‚΄λ‘œ μœ μž…λ˜μ—ˆμ„ λ•Œ
03:22
we embarked, the government of the day embarked
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μš°λ¦¬μ™€, λ‹Ήμ‹œ μ •λΆ€λŠ”
03:24
on a series of government-to-government arrangements
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이 λ‚˜λΌλ₯Ό λΉ λ₯΄κ²Œ μ„±μž₯μ‹œν‚€κΈ° μœ„ν•΄μ„œ
03:26
to have rapidly develop the country.
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μ •λΆ€κ°„ 거래λ₯Ό μ„±μ‚¬μ‹œν‚€λ € ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:28
And some of the largest projects in the country
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λͺ‡λͺ‡ κ΅­λ‚΄ μ΅œλŒ€μ‚¬μ—…λ“€μ΄
03:31
were being constructed through government-to-government arrangements
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μ„ μ§„κ΅­μ˜ μ •λΆ€λ“€κ³Ό ν•¨κ»˜ ν•˜λŠ” μ •λΆ€ λŒ€ μ •λΆ€ 거래λ₯Ό
03:34
with some of the leading countries in the world,
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톡해 μƒκ²¨λ‚˜κ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:36
the United States and Britain and France and so on and so on.
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λ―Έκ΅­, 영ꡭ, ν”„λž‘μŠ€μ™€ 같은 λ‚˜λΌλ“€κ³Όμš”.
03:38
As I said, even this building we're standing in -- that's one of the ironies --
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μ œκ°€ λ§ν–ˆλ“―μ΄, μ§€κΈˆ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ„œμžˆλŠ” 이건물은 -μ—­μ„€ 쀑 ν•˜λ‚˜μΈλ°μš”-
03:42
this building was part of that series of complexes,
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쌍λ‘₯이 νƒ€μ›ŒλΌ 뢈리던 볡합 건물의
03:43
what they called the Twin Towers.
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일 뢀뢄에 λΆˆκ³Όν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:47
It became so outrageous, the whole situation,
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30μ—¬λ…„μ „, ν„°λ¬΄λ‹ˆμ—†λŠ” 상황이 λ²Œμ–΄μ‘ŒμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:50
that in fact a commission of inquiry was appointed,
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μ‘°μ‚¬μœ„μ›νšŒκ°€ μ—΄λ Έκ³ ,
03:53
and it reported in 1982, 30 years ago it reported --
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30여년전인 1982년에
03:57
the Ballah Report -- 30 years ago,
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발라 리포트λ₯Ό λ³΄κ³ ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. -30년도 μ „μ—μš”,
04:00
and immediately the government-to-government arrangements were stopped.
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κ·Έ 직후 λͺ¨λ“  μ •λΆ€κ°„ κ±°λž˜λŠ” λ©ˆμΆ”μ–΄λ²„λ Έμ–΄μš”.
04:04
The then-Prime Minister went to Parliament
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λ‹Ήμ‹œ 총리가 κ΅­νšŒμ— κ°€μ„œ
04:06
to give a budget speech, and he said some things that I'll never forget.
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μ˜ˆμ‚°μ— λŒ€ν•œ 연섀을 ν–ˆλŠ”λ°, κ·ΈλŠ” μ œκ°€ κ²°μ½” μžŠμ§€ λͺ»ν•  말을 ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
04:09
They went right in here. I was a young man at the time.
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그듀은 λ°”λ‘œ 이 μžλ¦¬μ— μžˆμ—ˆμ£ , μ „ κ·Έλ•Œ μ Šμ—ˆμ—ˆκ³ ,
04:11
It went right into my heart.
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κ·Έ 말은 제 심μž₯을 μšΈλ Έμ–΄μš”.
04:13
And he said that, in fact β€” Let me see if this thing works.
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사싀 κ·Έκ°€ ν•œ 말은 말이죠- 효λ ₯이 μžˆλŠ”μ§€ ν•œ 번 λ΄…μ‹œλ‹€.
04:17
Are we getting a, yeah?β€”
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λͺ©ν‘œμ— λ„λ‹¬ν•˜λŠ”μ§€μš”, λ„€?-
04:20
That's what he told us.
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이게 λ‹€μ˜€μ–΄μš”.
04:22
He told us that, in fact,
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κ·Έκ°€ λ§ν•˜κΈΈ, 사싀,
04:26
two out of every three dollars of our petrodollars
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였일 λ¨Έλ‹ˆ, λ‚©μ„Έμžμ˜ 돈의
04:29
that we spent, the taxpayers' money,
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2/3 정도가
04:31
was wasted or stolen.
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λ‚­λΉ„λ˜μ—ˆκ±°λ‚˜ λ„λ‘‘λ§žμ•˜λ‹€λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:33
So the 10 or 15 percent is pure mischief.
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‹ˆκΉŒ 10% λ‚˜ 15%λŠ” 잘λͺ»λœ μˆ˜μΉ˜μ—μš”.
04:37
As we say, it's a nancy-story. Forget it.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λ§ν•˜λ“―μ΄, 이건 κ·Έμ € μž‘μ€ 이야기일 뿐이야. μžŠμ–΄λ²„λ €.
04:40
That's for little children. We are big people,
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아이듀을 μœ„ν•œ 이야기일 뿐이야. 우린 λ‹€ 큰 성인인걸.
04:41
and we're trying to deal with what's happening in our society.
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ©΄μ„œ 우린 μ§€κΈˆ μ‚¬νšŒμ—μ„œ μΌμ–΄λ‚˜κ³  μžˆλŠ” λ¬Έμ œλ“€μ„ ν•΄κ²°ν•˜λ € ν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:44
Okay? This is the size of the problem.
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이게 μ§€κΈˆ 문제의 규λͺ¨μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:46
Okay? Two thirds of the money stolen or wasted.
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μ•„μ‹œκ² μ–΄μš”? 2/3 μ •λ„μ˜ 돈이 λ‚­λΉ„λ˜μ—ˆκ±°λ‚˜ λ„λ‘‘λ§žμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:49
That was 30 years ago. 1982 was Ballah.
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이건 30년전인, 1982λ…„ 발라 리포트 λ‹Ήμ‹œμ˜ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°μ—μš”.
04:53
So what has changed?
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그럼 μ§€κΈˆμ€ 무엇이 λ°”λ€Œμ—ˆλ‚˜μš”?
04:55
I don't like to bring up embarrassing secrets
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λΆ€λ„λŸ¬μš΄ 비밀을 온 세상에 μžˆλŠ” 관객 μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„λ“€κ»˜
04:56
to an international audience, but I have to.
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μ•Œλ¦¬κΈ΄ μ‹«μ§€λ§Œ ν•΄μ•Όκ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:59
Four months ago, we suffered a constitutional outrage in this country.
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4κ°œμ›” μ „, ν„°λ¬΄λ‹ˆμ—†λŠ” μœ„λ²• ν–‰μœ„κ°€ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:02
We call it the Section 34 fiasco, the Section 34 fiasco,
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우린 이걸 μ„Ήμ…˜ 34 ν”Όμ•„μŠ€μ½”(μ‹€νŒ¨)라고 λΆ€λ¦…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:07
a suspicious piece of law, and I'm going to say it like it is,
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이건 μˆ˜μƒν•œ 법λ₯ μ΄κ³  μ €λŠ” μžˆλŠ” κ·ΈλŒ€λ‘œλ₯Ό μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:10
a suspicious piece of law
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이 μˆ˜μƒν•œ 법λ₯ μ€
05:11
was passed at a suspicious time
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μˆ˜μƒν•œ μ‹œμ μ—
05:14
to free some suspects. (Laughter)
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λͺ‡λͺ‡ μš©μ˜μžλ“€μ˜ 석방을 μœ„ν•΄ ν†΅κ³Όλ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. (μ›ƒμŒ)
05:15
And it was called, those people are called
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κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€
05:22
the Piarco Airport accused.
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ν”Όμ•„λ₯΄μ½” 곡항 피고인이라 λΆˆλ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:24
I'm going to have my own lexicon speaking here today.
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μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ μ €λ§Œμ˜ 단어λ₯Ό μ¨μ•Όκ² λŠ”λ°μš”
05:27
They are the Piarco Airport accused.
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κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€ ν”Όμ•„λ₯΄μ½” 곡항 ν”Όκ³ μΈμ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:28
It was a constitutional outrage of the first order,
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이건 μ΅œμ•…μ˜ μœ„λ²• ν–‰μœ„μ˜€κ³ 
05:31
and I have labeled it the Plot to Pervert Parliament.
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μ €λŠ” 이것을 "썩은 ꡭ회의 λ§Œν–‰" 이라고 λΆ„λ₯˜ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:35
Our highest institution in our country was perverted.
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우리 λ‚˜λΌμ˜ 제일 높은 기관이 νƒ€λ½ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:38
We are dealing with perverts here
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우린 μ§€κΈˆ κ²½μ œμ™€ μž¬μ •μ„
05:40
of an economic and financial nature.
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νƒ€λ½μ‹œν‚¨ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:42
Do you get how serious this problem is?
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이게 μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ μ‹¬κ°ν•œ λ¬Έμ œμΈμ§€ μ•„μ‹œκ² μ–΄μš”?
05:44
There was massive protest. A lot of us in this room
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κ±°λŒ€ν•œ ν•­μ˜ μ‹œμœ„κ°€ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ—¬κΈ° 계신 λ§Žμ€ 뢄듀이
05:46
took part in the protest in different forms.
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각자 λ‹€λ₯Έ λ°©λ²•μœΌλ‘œ ν•­μ˜ν–ˆμ—ˆμ£ .
05:49
Most importantly, the American embassy complained,
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무엇보닀, λ―Έκ΅­ λŒ€μ‚¬κ΄€μ΄ λΆˆλ§Œμ„ ν‘œμ‹œν–ˆκ³ ,
05:52
so Parliament was swiftly reconvened,
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이둜 인해 μ˜νšŒλŠ” ν•΄μ‚°λ˜μ—ˆμœΌλ©°,
05:54
and the law was reversed, it was repealed.
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κ·Έ 법λ₯ μ€ νμ§€λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:56
That's the word lawyers use. It was repealed.
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λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ΄ κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ λ§ν•˜λ”κ΅°μš”. νμ§€λ˜μ—ˆλ‹€κ΅¬μš”.
05:58
But the point is
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ μ€‘μš”ν•œ 것은,
06:01
that Parliament was outwitted in the whole course of events,
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μ˜νšŒλŠ” 이 사건 λ‚΄λ‚΄ 계속 ν•œλ°œμ§ λ¬ΌλŸ¬λ‚˜ μžˆμ—ˆλ‹€λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:05
because what really happened is that,
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μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ 정말 μΌμ–΄λ‚œ 일은,
06:07
because of the suspicious passage of that law,
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이 미심쩍은 법λ₯ μ΄
06:10
the law was actually passed into effect
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 독립 50주년을
06:13
on the weekend we celebrated our 50th anniversary of independence,
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κΈ°λ…ν•˜λ˜ 주말에 ν†΅κ³Όλ˜μ–΄
06:16
our jubilee of independence.
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효λ ₯을 κ°€μ§€κ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆλ‹€λŠ” μ‚¬μ‹€μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:18
So that is the kind of outrage of the thing.
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이게 λ°”λ‘œ ν„°λ¬΄λ‹ˆμ—†λŠ” 일이죠.
06:20
It was kind of a nasty way to get maturation, but we got it,
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이 사건은 우리 λ‚˜λΌκ°€ λΉ„μ—΄ν•˜κ²Œ μ„±μˆ™ν•΄μ§€λŠ” κ³„κΈ°μ˜€μ§€λ§Œ, κ²°κ΅­ κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆμ£ ,
06:23
because we all understood it,
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μ™œλƒν•˜λ©΄ 우리 λͺ¨λ‘ κ·Έκ±Έ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜κ³  μžˆμ—ˆκ³ ,
06:25
and for the first time that I could remember,
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μ œκ°€ κΈ°μ–΅ν•˜κΈ°λ‘  첫번째둜
06:26
there were mass protests against this corruption.
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λ§žμ„œλŠ” κ±°λŒ€ν•œ μ‹œμœ„λ“€μ΄ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:30
And that gave me a lot of hope. Okay?
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그건 μ €μ—κ²Œ λ§Žμ€ 희망을 μ£Όμ—ˆμ£ .
06:32
Those of us who are, sometimes you feel like
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저희 쀑 λͺ‡λͺ‡μ€ 이 일을 ν•˜λ©΄μ„œ
06:34
you're a little bit on your own doing some of this work.
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ν™€λ‘œ 남겨진 λŠλ‚Œμ„ λ°›κ³  μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:37
That passage of the law and the repeal of the law
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κ·Έ 법λ₯ κ³Ό 이의 λ°±μ§€ν™”λŠ”
06:41
fortified the case of the Piarco Airport accused.
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ν”Όμ•„λ₯΄μ½” 곡항 피고인 사건에 νž˜μ„ μ‹€μ–΄ μ£Όμ—ˆμ–΄μš”.
06:45
So it was one of those really superior double bluff kind of things that took place.
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이 사건은 정말 λŒ€λ‹¨ν•œ 이쀑 μ†μž„μˆ˜ 사건듀 쀑 ν•˜λ‚˜μ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:49
But what were they accused of?
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 피고인듀은 μ–΄λ–€ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ μ‹œκ³ λ˜μ—ˆμ„κΉŒμš”?
06:51
What was it that they were accused of?
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무엇 λ•Œλ¬Έμ— κ³ μ†Œλ₯Ό λ‹Ήν•œ κ²ƒμΌκΉŒμš”?
06:52
I'm being a bit mysterious for those of you out there. What were they accused of?
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ„ μœ„ν•΄ μ’€ μ‹ λΉ„μ£Όμ˜λ₯Ό κ³ μˆ˜ν•˜κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. 무엇 λ•Œλ¬Έμ— κ³ μ†Œλ‹Ήν•œ κ±ΈκΉŒμš”?
06:56
We were trying to build, or reconstruct largely,
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 였래된 곡항을 μ§€μœΌλ €κ³ ,
06:58
an airport that had grown outdated.
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μ „μ²΄μ μœΌλ‘œ μž¬κ±΄ν•˜λ € ν•˜κ³  μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:01
The entire project cost about 1.6 billion dollars,
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이것은 총 16μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬μ •λ„μ˜ μ‚¬μ—…μ΄μ—ˆλŠ”λ°
07:05
Trinidad and Tobago dollars,
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νŠΈλ¦¬λ‹ˆλ‹€λ“œν† λ°”κ³  λ‹¬λŸ¬λ‘œ 말이죠,
07:07
and in fact, we had a lot of bid-rigging
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λ§Žμ€ λ‹΄ν•© μž…μ°°κ³Ό
07:10
and suspicious activity, corrupt activity took place.
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μˆ˜μƒν•œ λΆ€νŒ¨ ν™œλ™λ“€μ΄ 많이 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:14
And to get an idea of what it consisted of,
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이 사업 쀑에 μΌμ–΄λ‚œ 일듀을 μ΄ν•΄ν•˜κ³ ,
07:18
and to put it in context in relationship to this whole
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이 'λΆ€νŒ¨λŠ” 큰 λ¬Έμ œκ°€ μ•„λ‹ˆλ‹€' λΌλŠ” λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λŒ€ν•œ λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έ 잘λͺ»λœ 믿음과의
07:21
second myth about it being no big thing,
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관계λ₯Ό 같은 λ§₯락에 λ†“κ³ μž,
07:23
we can look at this second slide here.
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μ—¬κΈ° λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έ μŠ¬λΌμ΄λ“œλ₯Ό λ³΄μ—¬λ“œλ¦¬κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:26
And what we have here -- I am not saying so,
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μ—¬κΈ° λ³΄μ΄λŠ” 것은 제 의견이 μ•„λ‹Œ,
07:29
this is the Director of Public Prosecutions in a written statement. He said so.
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검찰총μž₯의 μ§„μˆ μ„œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:34
And he's telling us that for the $1.6 billion cost of the project,
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κ·Έκ°€ λ§ν•˜κΈΈ μ‚¬μ—…λΉ„μš© 16μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬μ€‘
07:39
one billion dollars has been traced
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10μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬λŠ” μ™Έκ΅­ μ€ν–‰μœΌλ‘œ
07:41
to offshore bank accounts.
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μœ μΆœλ˜μ—ˆλ‹€κ³  ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:43
One billion dollars of our taxpayers' money
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λ‚©μ„Έμžλ“€μ˜ 돈 쀑 10μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬κ°€
07:45
has been located in offshore bank accounts.
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μ™Έκ΅­ μ€ν–‰μœΌλ‘œ 이체된 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:48
Being the kind of suspicious person I am,
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μ˜μ‹¬μ΄ λ§Žμ€ μ‚¬λžŒμœΌλ‘œμ¨,
07:50
I am outraged at that, and I'm going to pause here,
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μ „ λͺΉμ‹œ ν™”κ°€ λ‚¬μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€, μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ μž μ‹œ λ©ˆμΆ”λ„λ‘ ν•˜μ£ ,
07:53
I'm going to pause now and again and bring in different things.
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μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ μž μ‹œ λ©ˆμΆ”κ³  λ‹€λ₯Έ 이야기λ₯Ό μ’€ ν•˜κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:56
I'm going to pause here and bring in something I saw
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μž μ‹œ λ©ˆμΆ”κ³  μ œκ°€ μž‘λ…„ 11μ›”,
07:57
in November last year at Wall Street. I was at Zuccotti Park.
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μ›” μŠ€νŠΈλ¦¬νŠΈμ— μžˆλŠ” μ₯¬μ½”ν‹° κ³΅μ›μ—μ„œ κ²ͺ은 일을 μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•΄λ³ΌκΉŒ ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:01
It was autumn. It was cool. It was damp. It was getting dark.
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μŒ€μŒ€ν•˜κ³  슡기찬 가을 λ‚ μ΄μ—ˆμ–΄μš”. 날은 μ–΄λ‘μ›Œμ§€κ³  μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:05
And I was walking around with the protesters
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μ „ μ›” 슀트리트λ₯Ό μ λ Ήν•œ
08:07
looking at the One Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street movement walking around.
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Occupy μ‹œμœ„μžλ“€κ³Ό κ±·κ³  μžˆμ—ˆμ–΄μš”.
08:12
And there was a lady with a sign, a very simple sign,
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맀우 κ°„λ‹¨ν•œ 푯말을 λ“€κ³ μžˆλŠ”
08:14
a kind of battered-looking blonde lady,
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낑은 μ˜·μ°¨λ¦Όμ„ ν•œ 금발 여성뢄이 μžˆμ—ˆλŠ”λ°
08:16
and the sign was made out of Bristol board, as we say in these parts,
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κ·Έ 푯말은 μš°λ¦¬κ°€ ν”νžˆ λΈŒλ¦¬μŠ€ν†¨ νŒμ§€λΌκ³  λΆ€λ₯΄λŠ” 것과
08:19
and it was made with a marker.
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맀직펜으둜 λ§Œλ“  κ²ƒμ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:21
And what it said on that sign hit me right in the center.
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κ·Έ 푯말에 μ¨μžˆλŠ” 것은 제게 큰 좩격을 μ£Όμ—ˆμ–΄μš”.
08:24
It said, "If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention."
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"당신이 λΆ„λ…Έν•˜κ³  μžˆμ§€ μ•Šλ‹€λ©΄, 주의λ₯Ό κΈ°μšΈμ΄μ§€ μ•Šμ€ κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€."
08:28
If you're not outraged by all of this, you haven't been paying attention.
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당신이 이 λͺ¨λ“  것에 λΆ„λ…Έν•˜κ³  μžˆμ§€ μ•Šλ‹€λ©΄, 당신은 주의λ₯Ό κΈ°μšΈμ΄μ§€ μ•Šμ€ κ±°μ—μš”.
08:31
So listen up, because we're getting into even deeper waters.
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잘 λ“€μœΌμ„Έμš”, 더 κΉŠμ€ 것에 λŒ€ν•΄ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜λ € ν•˜λ‹ˆκΉŒμš”.
08:35
My brain started thinking.
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μ œλŠ” λ¨Έλ¦¬μ†μ—μ„œ μƒκ°ν•˜κΈ° μ‹œμž‘ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:37
Well, what if --
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κΈ€μŽ„, λ§Œμ•½--
08:40
because I'm suspicious like that. I read a lot of spy novels and stuff.
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μ œκ°€ 좔리 μ†Œμ„€μ„ 많이 μ½μ–΄μ„œ μ˜μ‹¬μ΄ λ§Žμ•„μš”.
08:43
What if -- (Laughter)
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λ§Œμ•½μ— -- (μ›ƒμŒ)
08:45
But to make it in these wrongs,
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이런 잘λͺ»λœ 것듀을 νŒŒν—€μΉ˜λ €λ©΄,
08:48
you have to read a lot of spy novels
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μΆ”λ¦¬μ†Œμ„€μ„ 많이 읽고
08:49
and follow some of that stuff, right? (Laughter)
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일뢀λ₯Ό 따라해야 ν•΄μ•Όμ£ . κ·Έλ ‡μ£ ? (μ›ƒμŒ)
08:52
But what if this wasn't the first time?
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λ§Œμ•½ 이런 λΆ€νŒ¨ ν™œλ™μ΄ 처음이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌλ©΄ μ–΄λ–¨κΉŒμš”?
08:56
What if this is just the first time
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이번 λΆ€νŒ¨ ν™œλ™μ΄
08:59
that the so-and-sos had been caught?
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처음으둜 적발된 κ·Έμ € 그런 λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λΆˆκ³Όν•˜λ‹€λ©΄μš”?
09:01
What if it had happened before? How would I find out?
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λ§Œμ•½ 전에도 이런 일이 μžˆμ—ˆλ‹€λ©΄μš”? μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ μ•Œμ•„λ‚Ό 수 μžˆμ„κΉŒμš”?
09:06
Now, the previous two examples I gave
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λ³΄μ—¬λ“œλ Έλ˜ λ‘κ°œμ˜ μ˜ˆμ‹œλ“€μ€
09:09
were to do with construction sector corruption, okay?
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건섀 사업 λΆ€νŒ¨μ— κ΄€ν•œ κ²ƒμ΄μ—ˆμ–΄μš”.
09:13
And I have the privilege at this time
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μ΄λ²ˆμ— μ €λŠ” 곡동 ν˜‘μ˜νšŒλ₯Ό μ£Όκ΄€ν•˜λŠ”
09:15
to lead the Joint Consultative Council, which is a not-for-profit.
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νŠΉκΆŒμ„ κ°€μ§€κ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆμ–΄μš”. λΉ„μ˜λ¦¬ ν™œλ™μ΄κ΅¬μš”.
09:18
We're at jcc.org.tt, and we have the -- we are the leaders
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μ£Όμ†ŒλŠ” jcc.org.tt μ΄κ΅¬μš”. μ €ν¬λŠ” 곡곡자금 μœ ν†΅μ— μžˆμ–΄
09:22
in the struggle to produce a new public procurement system
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곡금이 μ‘°λ‹¬λ˜λŠ” μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ 방법을 찾으렀 λ…Έλ ₯ν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠ”
09:25
about how public money is transacted.
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μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„ μ„ λ‘μ—μ„œ 이끌고 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:27
So those of you interested in finding out more about it,
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λ§Œμ•½ 관심이 μžˆμœΌμ‹œλ‹€λ©΄
09:30
or joining us or signing up on any of our petitions, please get involved.
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κ°€μž…ν•˜μ‹œκ±°λ‚˜, μ–΄λ–€ μ§„μ •μ„œλ“  μ„œλͺ…ν•˜μ…”λ„ λ˜μš”, λΆ€λ”” ν•¨κ»˜ ν•΄μ£Όμ„Έμš”.
09:34
But I'm going to segue to another thing that relates,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ μ €λŠ” 또 λ‹€λ₯Έ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°λ‘œ λ„˜μ–΄κ°€λ ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:36
because one of my private campaigns I've been conducting
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μ™œλƒν•˜λ©΄ μ œκ°€ 개인적으둜 3λ…„ λ°˜λ™μ•ˆ ν•΄μ˜¨
09:39
for over three and a half years
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켐페인이
09:41
is for transparency and accountability
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μ”¨μ—˜ νŒŒμ΄λ‚Όμ…œ(CL Financial)μ‚¬μ˜ κΈ΄κΈ‰ ꡬ제λ₯Ό λ‘˜λŸ¬μ‹Ό
09:44
around the bailout of CL Financial.
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투λͺ…μ„±κ³Ό μ±…μž„κ°μ— κ΄€ν•œ 것이기 λ•Œλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:47
CL Financial is the Caribbean's largest ever conglomerate, okay?
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μ”¨μ—˜ νŒŒμ΄λ‚Όμ…œ(CL Financial)μ‚¬λŠ” μΉ΄λ¦¬λΈŒν•΄ μ§€μ—­μ—μ„œ κ°€μž₯ 큰 λŒ€κΈ°μ—…μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:52
And without getting into all of the details,
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μžμ„Έν•œ 것은 λ‘˜μ§ΈμΉ˜κ³ ,
09:55
it is said to have collapsed β€” I'm using my words very carefully β€”
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이 νšŒμ‚¬λŠ” νŒŒμ‚°ν•œ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ μ•Œλ €μ Έ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. -ν‘œν˜„μ΄ 맀우 μ‘°μ‹¬μŠ€λŸ¬μš΄λ°μš”-
09:58
it's said to have collapsed in January of '09,
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2009λ…„ 1월에 νŒŒμ‚°ν•œ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ μ•Œλ €μ Έ μžˆλŠ”λ°,
10:01
which is just coming up to nearly four years.
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거의 4년이 λ˜μ–΄κ°€μ£ .
10:04
In an unprecedented fit of generosity --
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μ „λ‘€λ₯Ό μ°Ύμ•„λ³Ό 수 μ—†λŠ” λ„ˆκ·ΈλŸ¬μ›€ 속에
10:07
and you have to be very suspicious about these people --
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--μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ€ 이 상황을 μ˜μ‹¬μŠ€λŸ½κ²Œ 보셔야 ν•΄μš” --
10:10
in an unprecedented β€” and I'm using that word carefully β€”
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μ „λ‘€λ₯Ό μ°Ύμ•„λ³Ό 수 μ—†λŠ” -- μ‘°μ‹¬μŠ€λŸ½κ²Œ λ§ν•˜μžλ©΄--
10:12
unprecedented fit of generosity, the government of the day
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λ‹Ήμ‹œ μ •λΆ€λŠ” μ „λ‘€λ₯Ό μ°Ύμ•„λ³Ό 수 μ—†λŠ” λ„ˆκ·ΈλŸ¬μ›€μ„ λ°œνœ˜ν•΄μ„œ
10:16
signed, made a written commitment, to repay all of the creditors.
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μ±„κΆŒμžλ“€μ—κ²Œ λˆμ„ κ°šκ² λ‹€κ³  μ„œλͺ…ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:20
And I can tell you without fear of contradiction
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μ €λŠ” μ΄λŸ¬ν•œ λ„ˆκ·ΈλŸ¬μ›€μ΄ 지ꡬ상 μ–΄λŠ κ³³ μ—μ„œλ„
10:22
that hasn't happened anywhere else on the planet.
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μ°Ύμ•„λ³Ό 수 μ—†λ‹€κ³  μžμ‹ μžˆκ²Œ 말할 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:25
Let's understand, because we lack context.
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ν•œλ²ˆ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜λ €κ³  λ…Έλ ₯ν•΄λ΄…μ‹œλ‹€, 저흰 이 상황에 λŒ€ν•œ 정보가 λΆ€μ‘±ν•΄μš”.
10:27
People are telling us it's just like Wall Street. It's not just like Wall Street.
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μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€ 이게 μ›” μŠ€νŠΈλ¦¬νŠΈμ™€ κ°™λ‹€κ³  λ§ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ μ•„λ‹ˆμ—μš”.
10:30
Trinidad and Tobago is like a place with different laws of physics or biology or something.
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νŠΈλ¦¬λ‹ˆλ‹€λ“œν† λ°”κ³ μ—μ„œλŠ” λ¬Όλ¦¬ν•™μ΄λ‚˜ 생물학적 법칙이 μ „ν˜€ λ‹€λ₯΄κ²Œ μ μš©λ˜λŠ” 것 κ°™μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:35
It's not just like anywhere. (Applause)
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λ‹€λ₯Έ μ–΄λŠ 곳과도 λ‹€λ₯΄μ£ . (λ°•μˆ˜)
10:39
It's not just like anywhere. It's not just like anywhere.
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λ‹€λ₯Έ κ³³κ³Ό 같지 μ•Šμ•„μš”. μ „ν˜€ λ‹€λ₯Έ κ³³μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:44
Here is here, and out there is out there. Okay?
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μ—¬κΈ΄ μ—¬κΈ°κ³ , 저곳은 μ €κΈ°μ—μš”. κ·Έλ ‡μ£ ?
10:47
I'm serious now.
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μ „ μ§€κΈˆ μ‹¬κ°ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:49
Listen. They've had bailouts on Wall Street.
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λ“€μ–΄λ³΄μ„Έμš”. μ›” μŠ€νŠΈλ¦¬νŠΈμ—μ„œλ„ ꡬ제 κΈˆμœ΅μ€ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:52
They've had bailouts in London.
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λŸ°λ˜μ—μ„œλ„ μžˆμ—ˆκ΅¬μš”.
10:54
They've had bailouts in Europe.
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μœ λŸ½μ—μ„œλ„ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:56
In Africa, they've had bailouts. In Nigeria, six of the major
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μ•„ν”„λ¦¬μΉ΄μ—μ„œλ„ ꡬ제 금육이 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. λ‚˜μ΄μ§€λ¦¬μ•„μ—μ„œλŠ” μ—¬μ„―κ°œμ˜
10:58
commercial banks collapsed at the same time as ours, eh?
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μ£Όμš” 상업은행듀이 ν•œκΊΌλ²ˆμ— νŒŒμ‚°ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
11:01
It's interesting to parallel how the Nigerian experience has --
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λ‚˜μ΄μ§€λ¦¬μ•„κ°€ μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ 이 λ¬Έμ œμ— λŒ€μ²˜ν–ˆλŠ”μ§€
11:03
how they've treated it, and they've treated it
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저희와 비ꡐ해보면 맀우 ν₯미둜운데,
11:06
very well compared to us.
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λ‚˜μ΄μ§€λ¦¬μ•„λŠ” 저희에 λΉ„ν•΄ 맀우 잘 λŒ€μ²˜ν–ˆλ‹΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:07
Nowhere on the planet
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이 지ꡬ μ–΄λŠ κ³³ μ—μ„œλ„
11:09
have all the creditors been bailed out
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λͺ¨λ“  μ±„κΆŒμžλ“€μ΄ λ²•μ μœΌλ‘œ μ§€μ •λ˜μ–΄μžˆλŠ”
11:12
in excess of what their statutory entitlements were.
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μž¬μ • 지원 ν˜œνƒλ³΄λ‹€ 더 많이 금육 ꡬ제λ₯Ό 받은 적은 μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:14
Only here. So what was the reason for the generosity?
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였직 μ—¬κΈ°μ—μ„œλ§Œ μΌμ–΄λ‚œ μΌμ΄μ—μš”. 그럼 κ·Έ λ„ˆκ·ΈλŸ¬μ›€μ˜ μ΄μœ λŠ” λ¬΄μ—‡μΌκΉŒμš”?
11:18
Is our government that generous? And maybe they are.
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우리 μ •λΆ€κ°€ κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ λ„ˆκ·ΈλŸ¬μš΄κ°€μš”? μ•„λ§ˆλ„ κ·ΈλŸ΄μ§€λ„ λͺ¨λ₯΄μ£ .
11:21
Let's look at it. Let's look into it.
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ν•œλ²ˆ μ‚΄νŽ΄λ΄…μ‹œλ‹€. μžμ„Ένžˆ λ³΄μžκ΅¬μš”.
11:23
So I started digging and writing and so and so on,
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ μ €λŠ” μ‘°μ‚¬ν•˜κ³  μ§‘ν•„ν•˜κΈ° μ‹œμž‘ν–ˆλŠ”λ°,
11:26
and that work can be found, my personal work
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κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ λͺ¨μ€, 제 개인적인 μžλ£Œλ“€μ€
11:27
can be found at AfraRaymond.com, which is my name.
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제 이름을 λ”΄ AfraRaymond.com μ—μ„œ 보싀 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:31
It's a not-for-profit blog that I run.
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μ œκ°€ μš΄μ˜ν•˜λŠ” λΉ„μ˜λ¦¬ λΈ”λ‘œκ·Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:34
Not as popular as some of the other people, but there you go.
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λ‹€λ₯Έ λΈ”λ‘œκ·Έλ“€μ— λΉ„ν•΄ 유λͺ…ν•˜μ§„ μ•Šμ•„μš”.
11:36
(Laughter)
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(μ›ƒμŒ)
11:38
But the point is that the bitter experience of Section 34,
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μš”μ μ€ μ„Ήμ…˜ 34의 μ”μ“Έν–ˆλ˜ κ²½ν—˜,
11:43
that plot to pervert Parliament, that bitter experience
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의회λ₯Ό 속이렀 ν–ˆλ˜ 음λͺ¨λ“€, 쑰ꡭ의 독립을
11:45
that took place in August,
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μΆ•ν•˜ν•΄μ•Ό ν•  8월에 μΌμ–΄λ‚œ
11:48
when we were supposed to be celebrating our independence,
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쒋지 μ•Šμ•˜λ˜ κ²½ν—˜λ“€,
11:51
going into September, forced me to check myself
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9월에 λ“€μ–΄κ°€λ©΄μ„œ, μ €λŠ” 제 μžμ‹ μ„ μ κ²€ν•˜κ³ ,
11:56
and recalculate my bearings,
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μžμ„Έλ₯Ό λ°”λ‘œ μž‘λ„λ‘ ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€,
11:58
and to go back into some of the work, some of the stuff I'd written
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μ œκ°€ ν•΄μ˜¨ μž‘μ—…λ“€, μ œκ°€ μ“΄ 것듀,
12:00
and some of the exchanges I'd had with the officials
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그리고 곡무원듀과 주고받은 정보듀을 λ˜μ§šμ–΄ 보고,
12:03
to see what was really what.
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각기 정말 λœ»ν•˜λŠ” 것이 무엇인지 ν™•μΈν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:05
As we say in Trinidad and Tobago, who is who and what is what?
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νŠΈλ¦¬λ‹ˆλ‹€λ“œν† λ°”κ³ μ—μ„œ μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ λ§ν•΄μš”. λˆ„κ°€ λˆ„κ΅¬μ΄κ³  무엇이 무엇인가?
12:09
Okay? We want to try to recalculate.
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κ·Έμ£ ? 우린 μž¬κ²€ν† ν•˜κ³  μ‹ΆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:10
And I made a Freedom of Information application
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μ „ μ˜¬ν•΄ 5월에 μž¬μ •λΆ€μ—
12:13
in May this year to the Ministry of Finance.
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정보 μ—΄λžŒμ„ μš”μ²­ν•˜λŠ” μ‹ μ²­μ„œλ₯Ό μ œμΆœν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:17
The Ministry of Finance is the next tower over.
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μž¬μ •λΆ€λŠ” λ°”λ‘œ μ˜† 건물에 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:19
This is the other context.
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이건 λ‹€λ₯Έ μ •λ³΄μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:21
The Ministry of Finance, we are told,
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ•ŒκΈ°λ‘œ μž¬μ •λΆ€λŠ”
12:23
is subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.
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μš°λ¦¬μ—κ²Œ 정보 μ—΄λžŒμ„ μ œκ³΅ν•΄μ•Ό ν•˜λŠ” 의무λ₯Ό 가지고 μžˆλŠ”λ°μš”.
12:26
I'm going to take you through a worked example of whether that's really so.
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정말 κ·ΈλŸ°μ§€ 확인해 보도둝 ν•˜κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:30
The Central Bank in which we stand this morning
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ§€κΈˆ μ„œμžˆλŠ” 쀑앙은행은
12:33
is immune from the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.
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정보 μ—΄λžŒμ„ μ œκ³΅ν•΄μ•Όν•  μ˜λ¬΄κ°€ μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:37
So in fact, you can't ask them anything,
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ 사싀, 우린 아무것도 λ¬Όμ–΄λ³Ό 수 μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:39
and they don't have to answer anything.
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그듀도 아무것도 λŒ€λ‹΅ν•  ν•„μš”κ°€ μ—†κ΅¬μš”.
12:40
That is the law since 1999.
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이게 1999λ…„λΆ€ν„° μžˆμ—ˆλ˜ λ²•μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:43
So I plunged into this struggle, and I asked four questions.
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ μ €λŠ” 이 μ–΄λ €μš΄ λ¬Έμ œμ— 빠져보기둜 ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. κ·Έλž˜μ„œ 4개의 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν–ˆμ£ .
12:47
And I'll relate the questions to you in the short form with the reply,
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κ·Έ λ‹΅μœΌλ‘œ μ €λŠ” μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ΄ 질문과 μ—°κ΄€μ§€μœΌμ‹€ 수 μžˆλ„λ‘ κ°„λ‹¨ν•˜κ²Œ λ³΄μ—¬λ“œλ¦¬κ³ μž ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:50
so you could understand, as I said, where we are.
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„λ“€μ΄, μ œκ°€ λ§μ”€λ“œλ Έλ“―μ΄, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ–΄λŠ 곳에 μžˆλŠ”μ§€ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜μ‹€ 수 μžˆλ„λ‘ 말이죠.
12:53
Here is not like anywhere else.
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μ—¬κΈ°λŠ” νŠΉλ³„ν•œ κ³³μ΄λ‹ˆκΉŒμš”.
12:54
Question number one:
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첫번째 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ€:
12:57
I asked to see the accounts of CL Financial,
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μ”¨μ—˜ νŒŒμ΄λ‚Έμ…œ(CL Financial)μ‚¬μ˜ μž₯뢀듀을 보고 싢은데,
13:00
and if you can't show me the accounts --
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λ§Œμ•½ μ œκ°€ κ·Έ μž₯뢀듀을 λ³Ό 수 μ—†λ‹€λ©΄--
13:02
the Minister of Finance is making statements,
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μž¬μ •λΆ€ μž₯관은 μ„±λͺ…을 λ°œν‘œν•˜κ³ ,
13:04
passing new laws and giving speeches and so on.
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μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ 법듀을 λ§Œλ“€κ³  연섀을 ν•˜λŠ”λ°
13:07
What are the figures he's relying on?
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그럼 κ·ΈλŠ” μ–΄λ–€ 정보λ₯Ό μ‚¬μš©ν•˜λŠ” κ±ΈκΉŒμš”?
13:09
It's like that joke: I want whatever he's drinking.
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이건 이런 농담과 κ°™μ£ : μ € μ‚¬λžŒ λ§ˆμ‹œλŠ” 걸둜 μ£Όμ„Έμš”.
13:12
And they wrote back and said to me,
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그듀은 μ €μ—κ²Œ μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ λ‹΅ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€,
13:14
well what do you really mean?
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무슨 말을 ν•˜λŠ”κ²λ‹ˆκΉŒ?
13:15
So they hit my question with a question.
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그듀은 제 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ— 질문으둜 λ‹΅ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
13:18
Second point: I want to see
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λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έ: μ €λŠ” μ–΄λŠ μ±„κΆŒμžκ°€
13:21
who are the creditors of the group who have been repaid?
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μ‹€μ œλ‘œ λˆμ„ 지급 λ°›μ•˜λŠ”μ§€ μ•Œκ³  μ‹Άμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:24
Let me pause here to point out to you all
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μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ μž μ‹œ λ©ˆμΆ°μ„œ 우리 돈 240μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬κ°€
13:26
that 24 billion dollars of our money has been spent on this.
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여기에 μ“°μ—¬μ‘Œλ‹€λŠ” 것을 λ˜μƒˆκ²¨λ΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:30
That is about three and a half billion U.S. dollars
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이건 거의 35μ–΅ λ―Έκ΅­ λ‹¬λŸ¬μ™€ λ§žλ¨ΉλŠ” μ•‘μˆ˜μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:33
coming out of a small -- we used to be resource-rich --
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우리 λ‚˜λΌλŠ” μ‘°κ·Έλ§ˆν•œ --μžμ›μ΄ ν’λΆ€ν•˜κΈ°λŠ” ν–ˆμ—ˆμ£ --
13:36
Caribbean country. Okay?
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μΉ΄λ¦¬λΈŒν•΄ μ§€μ—­μ˜ λ‚˜λΌμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ•„μ‹œκ² μ£ ?
13:38
And I asked the question,
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μ „ 이런 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€,
13:40
who was getting that three and a half billion dollars?
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λˆ„κ°€ μ € 35μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬λ₯Ό λ°›μ•˜μ„κΉŒ?
13:44
And I want to pause again to bring up context,
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또 μž μ‹œ λ©ˆμΆ°μ„œ λ°°κ²½ 상황을 μ•Œλ €λ“œλ¦¬κ³  μ‹Άμ€λ°μš”,
13:46
because context helps us to get clarity understanding this thing.
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이것이 이해λ₯Ό 돕기 λ•Œλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:50
There's a particular individual who is in the government now.
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μ§€κΈˆ μ •λΆ€μ—λŠ” νŠΉμ • 인물이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:52
The name of the person doesn't matter.
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κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒμ˜ 이름은 λ³„λ‘œ μ€‘μš”μΉ˜ μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:54
And that person made a career
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κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒμ€ 정보 μžμœ λ²•μ„
13:57
out of using the Freedom of Information Act
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μžμ‹ μ˜ μ •μΉ˜ κ²½λ ₯을 μŒ“λŠ”λ°
13:59
to advance his political cause.
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μ΄μš©ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:01
Okay? His name isn't important.
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μ•„μ‹œκ² μ£ ? 그의 이름은 μ€‘μš”ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•„μš”.
14:04
I wouldn't dignify it. I'm on a point.
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κ·Έ 이름은 μ•Œ κ°€μΉ˜κ°€ μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ œκ°€ λ§ν•˜κ³ μž ν•˜λŠ” 것은
14:07
The point is, that person made a career out of using
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κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒμ€ 그의 λͺ©μ , μ •μΉ˜ κ²½λ ₯을 μœ„ν•΄
14:09
the Freedom of Information Act to advance his cause.
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정보 μžμœ λ²•μ„ μ‚¬μš©ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:12
And the most famous case
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κ°€μž₯ 유λͺ…ν•œ 사건은
14:14
was what we came to call the Secret Scholarship Scandal,
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λΉ„λ°€ μž₯ν•™κΈˆμ΄λΌκ³  λΆˆλ¦¬λŠ” μ‚¬κ±΄μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:17
where in fact there was about 60 million dollars in government money
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6천만 λ‹¬λŸ¬μ˜ μ •λΆ€ 자금이
14:20
that had been dispersed in a series of scholarships,
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μž₯ν•™κΈˆμ„ μœ„ν•΄ μ“°μ—¬μ‘ŒλŠ”λ°
14:23
and the scholarships hadn't been advertised, and so and so on and so on.
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κ·Έ μž₯ν•™κΈˆμ€ μ•Œλ €μ§€μ§€λ„ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:26
And he was able to get the court, using that act of Parliament,
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이 νŠΉμ • 인물은 의회 μ œμ •,
14:29
Freedom of Information Act,
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정보 μžμœ λ²•μ„ μ΄μš©ν•΄
14:30
to release the information,
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법원이 정보λ₯Ό κ³΅κ°œν•˜λ„λ‘ λ§Œλ“€μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:32
and I thought that was excellent.
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κ·Έ 뢀뢄은 맀우 ν›Œλ₯­ν•˜λ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
14:36
Fantastic.
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λŒ€λ‹¨ν•˜μ£ .
14:39
But you see, the question is this:
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ, 제 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ€:
14:41
If it's right and proper for us to use the Freedom of Information Act
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λ§Œμ•½ 6천만 λ‹¬λŸ¬μ˜ 곡금 μ‚¬μš©μ„ λ‘˜λŸ¬μ‹Ό 사싀을
14:45
and to use the court
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ν­λ‘œν•˜λŠ”λ° 정보 μžμœ λ²•κ³Ό 법원을
14:49
to force a disclosure about 60 million dollars in public money,
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μ‚¬μš©ν•˜λŠ”κ²Œ μ˜³λ‹€λ©΄,
14:54
it must be right and proper
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240μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬λ₯Ό λ‘˜λŸ¬μ‹Ό 사싀을 λ°νžˆλŠ” 것을 μœ„ν•΄
14:55
for us to force a disclosure about 24 billion dollars.
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μ‚¬μš©λ˜λŠ” 것도 μ˜³λ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:59
You see? But the Ministry of Finance,
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κ·Έλ ‡μ£ ? ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ μž¬μ •λΆ€λŠ”,
15:02
the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance,
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μž¬μ •λΆ€μ˜ 사무 차관은
15:04
wrote me and said to me, that information is exempt too.
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κ·Έ μ •λ³΄λŠ” 기밀이라고 μ„œλ©΄μœΌλ‘œ 제게 μ•Œλ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:07
You see? This is what we're dealing with, okay?
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이게 μš°λ¦¬κ°€ ν•΄κ²°ν•΄μ•Ό ν•  λ¬Έμ œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ•„μ‹œκ² μ£ ?
15:10
The third thing I will tell you
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μ œκ°€ ν•  μ„Έλ²ˆμ§Έ μ§ˆλ¬Έμ€
15:12
is that I also asked
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μ”¨μ—˜ νŒŒμ΄λ‚Έμ…œ(CL Financial)μ‚¬μ˜ μž„μ›λ“€μ—κ²Œλ„
15:15
for the directors of CL Financial,
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ν–ˆλ˜ 질문인데,
15:18
whether in fact they were making filings under our Integrity in Public Life Act.
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그듀이 정말 곡인 청렴법(λ°˜λΆ€νŒ¨λ²•)에 맞게 μ„œλ₯˜λ₯Ό μž‘μ„±ν•˜κ³  μžˆλŠλƒμ˜€μ£ .
15:22
We have an Integrity in Public Life Act
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우리 λ‚˜λΌμ—λŠ” 곡인 청렴법(λ°˜λΆ€νŒ¨λ²•)이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:24
as part of our framework supposed to safeguard the nation's interest.
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ꡭ읡을 지킀기 μœ„ν•œ ν‹€μ˜ μΌν™˜μœΌλ‘œ 말이죠.
15:28
And public officials are supposed to file
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곡인듀은 μžμ‚°κ³Ό 뢀채 λͺ©λ‘μ„
15:31
to say what it is they have in terms of assets and liabilities.
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μž‘μ„±ν•˜λ„λ‘ λ˜μ–΄ μžˆλŠ”λ°
15:37
And of course I've since discovered that they're not filing,
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λ¬Όλ‘  μ €λŠ” 그듀이 μ œλŒ€λ‘œ ν•˜κ³  μžˆμ§€ μ•ŠμŒμ„ λ°œκ²¬ν–ˆκ³ 
15:40
and in fact the Minister of Finance has not even asked them to file.
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심지어 μž¬μ •λΆ€ μž₯관은 그런 μ„œλ₯˜ μž‘μ„±μ„ μš”μ²­λ°›μ§€λ„ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:43
So here we have it. We have a situation where
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ μ§€κΈˆκ³Ό 같은 μƒνƒœκ°€ λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. 곡적 μƒν™œμ˜
15:47
the basic safeguards of integrity and accountability
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진싀성, μ±…μž„, 투λͺ…성을 λ³΄ν˜Έν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•œ 기본적인 보호 μž₯μΉ˜λ“€μ€
15:52
and transparency have all been discarded.
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λ¬΄μš©μ§€λ¬Όμ΄ λ˜μ–΄λ²„λ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:54
I've asked the question in the legal and required fashion.
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λ²•μ μœΌλ‘œ ν˜•μ‹μ— 맞게 이런 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν•΄ λ³΄μ•˜μ§€λ§Œ
15:57
It's been ignored.
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λ¬΄μ‹œλ‹Ήν•˜κ³  λ§μ•˜μ–΄μš”.
15:59
The sort of thing that motivated us around Section 34,
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μ„Ήμ…˜34μ—μ„œ μš°λ¦¬μ—κ²Œ 동기뢀여λ₯Ό μ‹œμΌ°λ˜ 것을
16:02
we need to continue to work on that. We can't forget it.
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계속 ν•΄λ‚˜κ°€μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μžŠμ–΄λ²„λ €μ„  μ•ˆλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:05
I have defined this as the single largest expenditure in the country's history.
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μ „ 이것을 이 λ‚˜λΌ 역사상 κ°€μž₯ 큰 μ§€μΆœμ΄λΌκ³  λͺ…λͺ…ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:08
It's also the single largest example
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이 곡식에 μ˜ν•˜λ©΄ 곡곡 λΆ€νŒ¨μ˜ κ°€μž₯ 큰
16:11
of public corruption according to this equation.
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μ˜ˆμ œμ΄κΈ°λ„ ν•˜κ΅¬μš”.
16:16
And this is my reality check.
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제 ν˜„μ‹€ 점검은 κ·Έλ ‡μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:19
Where you have an expenditure of public money
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κ³΅κΈˆμ„ μ±…μž„κ° 없이
16:21
and it is without accountability
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투λͺ…μ„± 없이
16:24
and it's without transparency,
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μ§€μΆœν• μˆ˜ μžˆλ‹€λŠ” 것은
16:26
it will always be equal to corruption,
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λŸ¬μ‹œμ•„, λ‚˜μ΄μ§€λΌμ•„, ν˜Ήμ€
16:28
whether you're in Russia or Nigeria or Alaska,
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μ•ŒλΌμŠ€μΉ΄λ“  μ–΄λ””μ—μ„œλ‚˜, 이것은 λΆ€νŒ¨μ™€ 닀름없을 κ±°μ—μš”.
16:31
it will always be equal to corruption, and that is what we are dealing with here.
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λΆ€νŒ¨μ™€ 닀름없죠. 이게 λ°”λ‘œ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ ν•΄κ²°ν•΄μ•Ό ν•  λ¬Έμ œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:36
I'm going to continue the work
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μ „ 계속 μ‘°μ‚¬ν•˜κ³  νŒŒν—€μΉ˜λ©΄μ„œ
16:38
to press on, to get some resolution
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μ••λ°•ν•˜κ³ , 이 문제의 ν•΄κ²°μ•ˆμ„
16:42
of those matters at the Ministry of Finance.
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μž¬μ •λΆ€μ˜ κ΄€λ ¨λœ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€ν•œν…Œ μš”κ΅¬ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:44
If it is I have to go to court personally, I will do that.
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ν•„μš”ν•˜λ‹€λ©΄ 제 개인적으둜 법원에 μ†Œμ†‘μ„ κ±Έ κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:46
We will continue to press on.
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저흰 계속 μ••λ°•ν•  κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:48
We will continue to work within JCC.
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저흰 JCC(곡동 ν˜‘μ˜νšŒ)λ₯Ό 톡해 계속 μΌν• κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:50
But I want to step back from the Trinidad and Tobago context
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ μ €λŠ” νŠΈλ¦¬λ‹ˆλ‹€λ“œν† λ°”κ³  μ˜ˆμ‹œμ—μ„œ ν•œκ±ΈμŒ λ¬ΌλŸ¬λ‚˜μ„œ
16:52
and bring something new to the table
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λ‹€λ₯Έ 이야기도 ν•΄λ³΄λ €ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:54
in terms of an international example.
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ꡭ제적인 예λ₯Ό λ“€μ–΄μ„œ 말이죠.
16:56
We had the journalist [Heather] Brooke speaking
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헀더 브룩 κΈ°μžκ°€ μ •λΆ€μ˜ λΆ€νŒ¨μ— λ§žμ„œ
16:59
about her battle against government corruption,
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μ‹Έμš΄ κ²½ν—˜λ‹΄μ„ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜λŠ” κ°€μš΄λ°,
17:01
and she introduced me to this website, Alaveteli.com.
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제게 Alaveteli.com μ΄λΌλŠ” μ›Ήμ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλ₯Ό μ†Œκ°œν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:07
And Alaveteli.com is a way for us to have an open database
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Alaveteli.comλŠ” 정보 μžμœ λ²• μ‹ μ²­ μž‘μ„±μ„ μœ„ν•œ
17:11
for Freedom of Information applications,
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μ—΄λ¦° μžλ£Œμ™€ μ„œλ‘œ λŒ€ν™”ν•  수 μžˆλŠ”
17:14
and speak with each other.
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μž₯μ†Œλ₯Ό μ œκ³΅ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:16
I could see what you're applying for.
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μ „ μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ΄ 무슨 정보λ₯Ό μ‹ μ²­ν–ˆλŠ”μ§€ λ³Ό 수 있고,
17:19
You could see what I applied for and what replies I got.
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„λ„ μ œκ°€ μ–΄λ–€ 정보λ₯Ό μ‹ μ²­ν–ˆλŠ”μ§€, μ–΄λ–€ λ‹΅μž₯을 λ°›μ•˜λŠ”μ§€ λ³Ό 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:22
We can work on it together. We need to build a collective database
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” ν•¨κ»˜ 일할 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 곡동 λ°μ΄ν„°λ² μ΄μŠ€λ₯Ό λ§Œλ“€κ³ 
17:25
and a collective understanding of where we are to go to the next point.
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μ–΄λ””λ‘œ λ‚˜μ•„κ°€μ•Ό ν•  지에 λŒ€ν•œ 이해λ₯Ό κ³΅μœ ν•΄ λ‚˜κ°€μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:28
We need to increase the consciousness.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μ˜μ‹μ„ λ†’μ—¬μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:30
The final thing I want to say is in relation to this one,
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μ œκ°€ 이와 κ΄€λ ¨ν•˜μ—¬ λ§ˆμ§€λ§‰μœΌλ‘œν•˜κ³  싢은 말은
17:34
which is a lovely website from India
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IPaidABribe.com λΌλŠ”
17:36
called IPaidABribe.com.
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μ‚¬λž‘μŠ€λŸ¬μš΄ 인도 μ›Ή μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:38
They have international branches,
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그듀은 ꡭ제적으둜 지사λ₯Ό 가지고 μžˆμ–΄μš”,
17:40
and it's important for us to tune into this one.
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이 μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλ₯Ό 항상 λˆˆμ—¬κ²¨ λ³΄λŠ”κ²Œ μ€‘μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:42
IPaidABribe.com is really important,
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IPaidABribe.com λŠ” 맀우 μ€‘μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€,
17:45
a good one to log on to and see.
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λ‘œκ·ΈμΈν•΄μ„œ μ§€μΌœλ³΄λŠ” 것도 μ’‹μ£ .
17:47
I'm going to pause there. I'm going to ask you for your courage.
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μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ 잠깐 λ©ˆμΆ”κ³  μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„λ“€κ»˜μ„œ 용기λ₯Ό λ‚΄μ‹œκΈΈ λΆ€νƒν•˜κ³  μ‹ΆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:50
Discard the first myth; it is a crime.
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첫번째 잘λͺ»λœ λ―ΏμŒμ„ λ²„λ¦¬μ„Έμš”, λΆ€νŒ¨λŠ” λΆ„λͺ…νžˆ λ²”μ£„μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:52
Discard the second myth; it is a big thing.
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λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έ 사싀도 μžŠμ–΄λ²„λ €μš”. λΆ€νŒ¨λŠ” 큰 λ¬Έμ œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:54
It's a huge problem. It's an economic crime.
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맀우 큰 λ¬Έμ œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 경제적 λ²”μ£„μ—μš”.
17:57
And let us continue working together
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우리 ν•¨κ»˜ 상황을
17:59
to betterment in this situation,
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더 ν–₯μƒμ‹œν‚€κ³ , μ•ˆμ •μ‹œν‚€λ©°, μ§€μ†μ‹œν‚€κΈ° μœ„ν•΄
18:01
stability and sustainability in our society. Thank you.
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λ…Έλ ₯ν•©μ‹œλ‹€. κ°μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
이 μ›Ήμ‚¬μ΄νŠΈ 정보

이 μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλŠ” μ˜μ–΄ ν•™μŠ΅μ— μœ μš©ν•œ YouTube λ™μ˜μƒμ„ μ†Œκ°œν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ „ 세계 졜고의 μ„ μƒλ‹˜λ“€μ΄ κ°€λ₯΄μΉ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μˆ˜μ—…μ„ 보게 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 각 λ™μ˜μƒ νŽ˜μ΄μ§€μ— ν‘œμ‹œλ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μžλ§‰μ„ 더블 ν΄λ¦­ν•˜λ©΄ κ·Έκ³³μ—μ„œ λ™μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. λΉ„λ””μ˜€ μž¬μƒμ— 맞좰 μžλ§‰μ΄ μŠ€ν¬λ‘€λ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ˜κ²¬μ΄λ‚˜ μš”μ²­μ΄ μžˆλŠ” 경우 이 문의 양식을 μ‚¬μš©ν•˜μ—¬ λ¬Έμ˜ν•˜μ‹­μ‹œμ˜€.

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